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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: edpro.pits@yahoo.com on March 21, 2009, 06:49:02 PM
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I was just checking in the book of Genesis ch. 2 and I did not find the word "NOT" in the ch. 2 vs 17 in the original writings.
Does any one have any info on this?
Thanks in advance.
Edward
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Hi Edward,
Could you post a copy of that verse Genesis: 2 V 17: in the original writings, i would like to see your source material.
george. ???
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Genesis 2:17 But of the tree <`ets> of the knowledge <da`ath> of good <towb> and evil <ra`>, thou shalt not eat <'akal> of it: for in the day <yowm> that thou eatest <'akal> thereof thou shalt surely <muwth> die <muwth>.
The word's that are used are -Tree, Knowledge, Good, Evil, Eat: Day, Eat, Die, Die.
This verse is from a program called "Sword Searcher".
I don't know if E-Sword wold have the same writings but I assume it does.
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I was just checking in the book of Genesis ch. 2 and I did not find the word "NOT" in the ch. 2 vs 17 in the original writings.
Does any one have any info on this?
Thanks in advance.
Edward
I have yet to find any Hebrew word which means 'not'...I think this is an issue of understanding the ancient hebrew language and not whether 1 exact word in Hebrew translates to another 1 exact word in english. Remember:
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die [there is no 1 hebrew word which means 'not' in this scripture]
1 Tim 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression [there would not be any 'transgression' if the word 'not' or any other negative connotation was not understood from the account of Adam & Eve partaking of the tree of knowledge]
Hope this helps,
Marques
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Genesis 3:11 And he said <'amar>, Who <miy> told <nagad> thee that thou wast naked <`eyrom>? Hast thou eaten <'akal> of the tree <`ets>, whereof I commanded thee <tsavah> that thou shouldest not <biltiy> eat <'akal>?
It's funny because in ch. 3:11 their is the negative. So I'm not sure why it's used here and not in ch. 2
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I cannot find the reference but this is a complicated Hebrew linguistic thing,
It is a case of "double eat" and like the double dying word " witn an indeterminant time thing between them
it comes out like
You are free to eat from any tree when you eat from the tree of good and evil then that day dying you shall die
Perhaps this is also reflected in Eve's confused response to satan, not to eat or touch it
I will keep looking for it.
beloved
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Thanks every one.
Just trying to see whats going on in this situation.
Edward
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Hi Edward,
The two verses below are the only ones out of 40 translations that read a bit differently, I will keep looking.
Gen:2-17 (GW)
But you must never eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because when you eat from it, you will certainly die."
Gen:2 -17 (BBE)
But of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you may not take; for on the day when you take of it, death will certainly come to you.
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree <`ets> of the knowledge <da`ath> of good <towb> and evil <ra`>, thou shalt not eat <'akal> of it: for in the day <yowm> that thou eatest <'akal> thereof thou shalt surely <muwth> die <muwth>.
The word's that are used are -Tree, Knowledge, Good, Evil, Eat: Day, Eat, Die, Die.
This verse is from a program called "Sword Searcher".
I don't know if E-Sword wold have the same writings but I assume it does.
george. :)
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H3808 לוא לא lô' lô' lôhlo; a primitive particle; not (the simple or abstract negation); by implication no; often used with other particles: - X before, + or else, ere, + except, ig [-norant], much, less, nay, neither, never, no ([-ne], -r, [-thing]), (X as though . . . , [can-], for) not (out of), of nought, otherwise, out of, + surely, + as truly as, + of a truth, + verily, for want, + whether, without.
Gen 2:16 They were commanded
Of every H4480 H3605 tree H6086 of the gardenH1588 thou mayest freely eat[b[/color]]:H398 H398 [/b] eat eat
Gen 2:17 But of the tree H4480 H6086 of the knowledge H1847 of good H2896 and evil, H7451 thou shalt notH3808 eat H398 (eat) of H4480 it: for H3588 in the day H3117 that thou eatest H398 thereof H4480 thou shalt surely die. H4191 H4191 Dying you shall die
See that there is no surely with the die words, it is back with the Eat word
You are free to eat from any tree surely when you eat from the tree of good and evil then that day dying you shall die
It is like
You are free to drive down any road surily if you drive down that one road you will colide head on.
I told you could drive down any road..
But did I also tell you not to go down one of them ?
It linquistics...a lot like linguini slippery
beloved
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Here is the word that is used in ch. 3:11
ytlb biltiy bil-tee'
constructive feminine of 1086 (equivalent to 1097); properly, a failure of, i.e. (used only as a negative particle, usually with a prepositional prefix) not, except, without, unless, besides, because not, until, etc.:--because un(satiable), beside, but, + continual, except, from, lest, neither, no more, none, not, nothing, save, that no, without.
And this is the root word from which it is derived.
1086
hlb balah baw-law'
a primitive root; to fail; by implication to wear out, decay (causatively, consume, spend):--consume, enjoy long, become (make, wax) old, spend, waste.
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Beloved
Where did you get this translation?
H3808 is not used in my program.
Gen 2:17 But of the tree H4480 H6086 of the knowledge H1847 of good H2896 and evil, H7451 thou shalt notH3808 eat H398 (eat) of H4480 it: for H3588 in the day H3117 that thou eatest H398 thereof H4480 thou shalt surely die. H4191 H4191 Dying you shall die
Edward
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Esword it is the KJV with strongs but I also looked at the Interlinear version both are free off the internet. I cannot copy from the ISA
What is H 1086 or H 1087 have to do with these verses...I am really missing it. I can't find these words in them.
beloved
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H398 כל 'âkal aw-kal' A primitive root; to eat (literally or figuratively): - X at all, burn up, consume, devour (-er, up), dine, eat (-er, up), feed (with), food, X freely, X in . . . wise (-deed, plenty), (lay) meat, X quite.
My KJC (King James Concordance) in Esword says it is used 805 times in the scriptures...lot of easting going on
Eating and digesting is burning up food...body fuel
beloved
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Genesis 3:11 And he said <'amar>, Who <miy> told <nagad> thee that thou wast naked <`eyrom>? Hast thou eaten <'akal> of the tree <`ets>, whereof I commanded thee <tsavah> that thou shouldest not <biltiy> eat <'akal>?
It's funny because in ch. 3:11 their is the negative. So I'm not sure why it's used here and not in ch. 2
I'm not sure why a word specifying a negative connotation is in Gen 3:11 and not Gen 2:17...but neither is the word 'shall' translated from the hebrew transcripts. So even if there is no negative connotation in Gen 2:17, neither is the word 'shall', so either way, the Lord is not commanding Adam to eat of the tree.
So where does that leave us?
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat
First, the Lord states that Adam could eat of any tree in the garden.
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Then, the Lord stated that to eat of the tree of knowledge, 'that day, you shall be dieing'. As 'not' is not translated from one exact hebrew word, neither is 'shall'...so we are left with the same meaning as before...but the inclusion of the translators to use the words 'not' and 'shall' makes it a lot easier to read and understand.
But getting back to your original request: you stated you wanted to know 'what is going on in this situation'. Well, what do you think is going on in this situation? I just want to know what is your point and/or where were you going with this. Please take no offense.
Marques
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Hi Edward,
This verse and Strongs definition, Beloved provided, should have answered your question.
Gen:2-17 (GW)
But you must never eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because when you eat from it, you will certainly die."
KJV+Strongs Concordance.
H3808 לוא לא lô' lô' lôhlo; a primitive particle; not (the simple or abstract negation); by implication no; often used with other particles: - X before, + or else, ere, + except, ig [-norant], much, less, nay, neither, never, no ([-ne], -r, [-thing]), (X as though . . . , [can-], for) not (out of), of nought, otherwise, out of, + surely, + as truly as, + of a truth, + verily, for want, + whether, without.
george. ???
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Hi Edward
You say you want to see what is going on in this situation.
The tree that is forbidden is the Law. Thy shalt NOT...
The tree of Life is "Come" says the Spirit and the Bride and drink freely. The teachings that I believe can deepen your insight regarding what God commanded in Genesis are to be found throughout the teachings here in BT. The more specific ones are in http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html under the titles WHAT CAUSED EVE TO SIN WILLINGLY? and IT ALL STARTS WITH THE HEART.
Perhaps reflecting on the first of the TWELVE GOD-GIVEN TRUTHS TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORD at http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm TRUTH NUMBER 1 may also help you see what is going on regarding God and His ways.
As far as I know, there is no short cut to understanding that comes of the Spirit. We are called to study the Word of God day and night.
Arc
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I have been reading this thread trying to figure out what the question is that is trying to be answered. In doing so, I noticed this probably irrelevant point, but God said:
16 And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Eating you may eat of every tree in the garden;
17 but of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil you may not eat, for in the day that you eat of it, dying you shall die.
It almost sounds like the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is located somewhere other than the garden.
Eileen
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Eileen,
Here is the Scripture that places the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Gen 2:9 (MKJV)
And out of the ground Jehovah God caused to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food. The tree of life also was in the middle of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. george ;D.
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witness::
Genesis 3 : 3 but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’”
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Oh I see..... ::) ::) :o :o :o
Eileen
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esowrd and the interlinear have a word for 'not'
blue letter and even strongsnumbers.com use a different hebrew text.
It seems depending on what texts you use the word is there or not there but the meaning of the verse is still the same.
the KJV translators used a text that included the word 'not' otherwise it would be in italics
What is going on in the situation?
Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.(both trees!!)
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not(what if not wasn't included?) eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
God's declaration is still true! Your going to die if you eat it.
If am missing something Edward that your seeing please share with us
Antaiwan
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Thanks every one for your input.
Why I asked the question was because the program that I use does not have the word "not" in it and I thought that maybe their was something their that showed that man was suppose to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Since God said "now the man has become like us knowing good and evil" may be it was God's intention for man to eat of the tree so that he can learn good and evil and go through the process of death.
(I'm not saying this as though I know something it's that I was kinda thrown of when I didn't find the word "not" in the original on the program that I was using. And I was using the translation of KJ with Strong's links).
I understand that God is CREATING man in His own image and that man was a carnal creation. So I hope that my question is clear in the previous paragraph.
Edward
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I also just down loaded the esword program and all it gives me is the Strong's numbers but not the actual Hebrew text and the program that I have actually gives me the Hebrew script.
Edward
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Hi Edward,
That was a great question, it made us do more reading and research. Also now you do know better how to use esword. That program has a lot of uses that are not readily apparent when you first use it.
george. ;D
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Thanks every one for your input.
Why I asked the question was because the program that I use does not have the word "not" in it and I thought that maybe their was something their that showed that man was suppose to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Since God said "now the man has become like us knowing good and evil" may be it was God's intention for man to eat of the tree so that he can learn good and evil and go through the process of death.
(I'm not saying this as though I know something it's that I was kinda thrown of when I didn't find the word "not" in the original on the program that I was using. And I was using the translation of KJ with Strong's links).
I understand that God is CREATING man in His own image and that man was a carnal creation. So I hope that my question is clear in the previous paragraph.
Edward
Why I asked the question was because the program that I use does not have the word "not" in it and I thought that maybe their was something their that showed that man was suppose to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Since God said "now the man has become like us knowing good and evil" may be it was God's intention for man to eat of the tree so that he can learn good and evil and go through the process of death.
Email to Ray,hope it helps.
http://bible-truths.com/emails.html#tempt
God did not directly entice Adam or Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit, Satan did. But notice, Who planted the tree? Where was it planted, in a far corner somewhere? Who made the tree LOOK good and desirable to make one wise? Who knew that Satan would take the first opportunity to tempt them? Who had ALREADY PREPARED HIS SON AS A LAMB to be slaughtered for these sins even before they committed them? Well, yes, of course, it was GOD! God did NOT tempt Eve. Satan tempted Eve. Eve's own carnal nature tempted here.
Peace...mark