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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Paul on March 15, 2008, 01:24:46 AM
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It completely baffles me how King James-onlyists can go around talking about people burning in hell for all eternity, when their very Bible says hell will be destroyed in the lake of fire!
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It's amazing isn't it? To them, this would mean the "hell-fire" that is supposedly beneath our feet will be thrown into some OTHER "hell-fire" called the "Lake of Fire". I mean, what was wrong with the first hell-fire? Wasn't is hot enough? I guess the Lake of Fire will be much hotter or something. INSANE!
Quite frankly, I believe is it a MIRACLE that they cannot see such obvious truth. God wasn't kidding when He said that He will send them "STRONG delusion".
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Yeah and when Paul says in Corinthians I think, Hell, where is thy sting? Also in the OT there is no seeing, consciousness etc in Hell. I have read about ppl who say when you die you go to either paradise or hades and then after the judgement you go heaven or lake of fire for eternity. It sounds kind of crazy to me.
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It completely baffles me how King James-onlyists can go around talking about people burning in hell for all eternity, when their very Bible says hell will be destroyed in the lake of fire!
Welcome to the insanity of Christianity.
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It completely baffles me how King James-onlyists can go around talking about people burning in hell for all eternity, when their very Bible says hell will be destroyed in the lake of fire!
Most of the Christians I've come into contact with, no mater which Bible version they read from, don't even know those scriptures are in revelation. The Church I came out of wouldn't even talk about that book, let alone teach from it..........save for one scripture which they used as an evangelical scripture.....rev 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."........Not one of them actually got that this scripture is included in a chapter that is an admonition, a rebuke, a warning if you will to the CHURCH.
One of the Deacons actually said to me once, "That's the book in the Bible I never bother reading, I don't think its meant for us." The Pastor said during a service one time "If we were to go to revelation, I doubt there are two people here that would have the same opinion as to what it means, that's why this book is never referred to in this Church."
Yes, a lot of Hell fire preachers have a hard time explaining that scripture away.
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Well, let me ask a question. Who has the keys of Hell and of death?
- Revelation 1:18 - I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Folks are still thinking like you have to die physically to go to heaven, you have to die physically to go to hell. What did Jesus say?
- Matthew 6:19-21 - Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is (Romans 14:17), (spirit) be also.
Carnal thinking gives folks misrepresentation of scripture. Whereever your treasure is that's where your heart will be. Just like you've got people living in heaven today (heaven while they're on earth according to Romans 14:17), you've also got folks living in hell on earth.
- Jesus said (Matthew 7:16) - Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Folks living in hell while on earth if they don't repent and come to Him who has the keys will eventually experience the first death. What is the first death? Look at how more and more folks are getting hooked on prescription medications for depression, mania, anxieties. You're seeing folks living in the 1st death. They still have a chance to come to Christ up till second death which comes after these die the physical and means complete eradication. There's no eternal suffering hell hole forever and ever, because these will be thrown into the lake of fire for complete dismembered (spirit, soul, body) and eradication never to exist (TO BE) again (Matthew 3:12, Matthew 13:30, Luke 3:17). It will be all over for them. God bless that no one suffers forever and ever throughout what they (THE HARLOT CHURCH) calls eternity.
IN HIS LOVE
Revelation 20:13-15 - And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
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One of the Deacons actually said to me once, "That's the book in the Bible I never bother reading, I don't think its meant for us."
He was right.
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It completely baffles me how King James-onlyists can go around talking about people burning in hell for all eternity, when their very Bible says hell will be destroyed in the lake of fire!
Most of the Christians I've come into contact with, no mater which Bible version they read from, don't even know those scriptures are in revelation. The Church I came out of wouldn't even talk about that book, let alone teach from it..........save for one scripture which they used as an evangelical scripture.....rev 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."........Not one of them actually got that this scripture is included in a chapter that is an admonition, a rebuke, a warning if you will to the CHURCH.
One of the Deacons actually said to me once, "That's the book in the Bible I never bother reading, I don't think its meant for us." The Pastor said during a service one time "If we were to go to revelation, I doubt there are two people here that would have the same opinion as to what it means, that's why this book is never referred to in this Church."
Yes, a lot of Hell fire preachers have a hard time explaining that scripture away.
The book of THE REVELATIONS OF JESUS CHRIST is a personal book to each individual son of God. You're really suppose to go at it alone and wait for the Revelations of His HOLY SPIRIT.
- Revelation 1:3 - Blessed is he(the individual) that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
It's dangerous as a son of God to read everyone else's interpretation, although they might be right in many areas, on THE REVELATIONS OF JESUS CHRIST. There's a special seal on it.
- Revelation 10:4 - And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
Be careful what you entertain, because a lot out here is just speculative.
IN HIS LOVE
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It completely baffles me how King James-onlyists can go around talking about people burning in hell for all eternity, when their very Bible says hell will be destroyed in the lake of fire!
Most of the Christians I've come into contact with, no mater which Bible version they read from, don't even know those scriptures are in revelation. The Church I came out of wouldn't even talk about that book, let alone teach from it..........save for one scripture which they used as an evangelical scripture.....rev 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."........Not one of them actually got that this scripture is included in a chapter that is an admonition, a rebuke, a warning if you will to the CHURCH.
One of the Deacons actually said to me once, "That's the book in the Bible I never bother reading, I don't think its meant for us." The Pastor said during a service one time "If we were to go to revelation, I doubt there are two people here that would have the same opinion as to what it means, that's why this book is never referred to in this Church."
Yes, a lot of Hell fire preachers have a hard time explaining that scripture away.
The book of THE REVELATIONS OF JESUS CHRIST is a personal book to each individual son of God. You're really suppose to go at it alone and wait for the Revelations of His HOLY SPIRIT.
- Revelation 1:3 - Blessed is he(the individual) that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
It's dangerous as a son of God to read everyone else's interpretation, although they might be right in many areas, on THE REVELATIONS OF JESUS CHRIST. There's a special seal on it.
- Revelation 10:4 - And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
Be careful what you entertain, because a lot out here is just speculative.
IN HIS LOVE
Hi Bradigans.
Thank for sharing your insight, however I must respectfully disagree with your analysis.
There are many scriptures where the word he is used but I believe does not mean in the individual personal sense.
Matt 10:22 22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. I believe the word he means "they that endure to the end".
Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
1 Cor 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
"The book of THE REVELATIONS OF JESUS CHRIST is a personal book to each individual son of God. You're really suppose to go at it alone and wait for the Revelations of His HOLY SPIRIT."
"It's dangerous as a son of God to read everyone else's interpretation, although they might be right in many areas, on THE REVELATIONS OF JESUS CHRIST. There's a special seal on it. "
Not really sure what you are getting at here, but I disagree that its a personal book in the sense of having individual interpretations of it.
Its a book with seven seals and only the Holy Spirit can open those seals to us to reveal what is in the book, and those revelations come from SCRIPTURE, not private or personal interpretations.
This is what I was getting at in the post you responded to. The Church seems to think there are many interpretations to Revelation, when in fact there is one which only the (Rev 5:4)"the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof" can reveal to us, and it is revealed through the word.
Be blessed.
YBIC.
David.
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I think someone else has written this earlier but....The wages of Sin is Death.... Death, not Eternal Horrific Punishment!!!
You are right, it seems it is a miracle that they DON'T see it!! Now, to me, it seems so obvious, like duh, how do you NOT see it.......but a few short years ago I didn't see it either ::)
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I think someone else has written this earlier but....The wages of Sin is Death.... Death, not Eternal Horrific Punishment!!!
You are right, it seems it is a miracle that they DON'T see it!! Now, to me, it seems so obvious, like duh, how do you NOT see it.......but a few short years ago I didn't see it either ::)
I've mentioned that to christians plenty of times, and they say will "eternal torment in hell is death....the lake of fire is the second death" and all this nonsense. You can't argue with someone who doesn't rely on commonsense and logic. The wages of sin is death, not death, and the second death, and also eternal torment which is also death and the second. I mean, which is it, it has to be one, not all three?
It's whatever they want it to be in order to fit their doctrines. And it changes at anytime without notice. And it just goes on and on and on, it's total nonsense, it's endless babble, it's babylonia.
So much for "context, context, context" when they don't even rely on definition, definition, definition of the word, word, word :P
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It completely baffles me how King James-onlyists can go around talking about people burning in hell for all eternity, when their very Bible says hell will be destroyed in the lake of fire!
YES, this amazes me also, but as someone said, "only a few short years ago I didn't see it either".
But,....what amazes me even more, is when you confront SOME Mainstream Christians with this Fact, they get all ANGRY and DEFENSIVE!!!!
I mean,.....really!! It is not as if you are telling them you just don't believe in Hell, without a GOOD reason.
You sit down and point out WHY you do not believe in Hell.
And they get all UPSET!! >:(
Why????
I would think that they would be like,..."Wow,...I never looked at it like that!!!" "That is so cool,....you mean EVERYONE WILL BE SAVED!!!" "Wow,...thank God!!" :D
I was jumping for joy, when I found out. ;D
But, most DO NOT have a positive take on it, and THAT, I TRULY do not understand!!!
I probably should not be amazed at that either, but I just cannot help it.
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Perhaps this can explain it.....
A person goes through life using the false teaching that there is a hell, as their way of letting off steam when they are hurt, abused or persecuted by others. They get a sense of righteous indignation and they feel better by thinking that anyone who upsets them will go to Hell and that God will punish them in eternal torment.
Then someone comes along and takes away their neat little method of getting past feeling bitter and vengeful which is their own pressure valve teaching that there is a Hell and in which they receive false satisfaction that God agrees with them. What are they going to do when they find out this is not true? Explode or tell the technician to get out of the kitchen and that their pressure cooker will not be exchanged for a new edition. How else are they going to feel better?
Not everyone is over joyed at this discovery that there is no pagan hell, because it serves a purpose in keeping in place the self justification in error of wishing others Hell for hurting them. Take that away and they will hate you or repent of their idol of false belief.
Repentance is the way to go but God is in charge of who He brings to repentance through His Goodness and Mercy.
All will repent in the end but some with more stripes, correction and more resistance to letting go of their false beliefs than others. As for those with less stripes and less resistance, it is for us to practice Mercy that God says is His method of judging us all. I know I need Mercy and Grace! Plenty of it continually.
I know that seeing it this way helps me to have pity on those who unconsciously and unknowingly depend on the false pain relief teachings of Babylon.
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
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Perhaps this can explain it.....
A person goes through life using the false teaching that there is a hell, as their way of letting off steam when they are hurt, abused or persecuted by others. They get a sense of righteous indignation and they feel better by thinking that anyone who upsets them will go to Hell and that God will punish them in eternal torment.
Then someone comes along and takes away their neat little method of getting past feeling bitter and vengeful which is their own pressure valve teaching that there is a Hell and in which they receive false satisfaction that God agrees with them. What are they going to do when they find out this is not true? Explode or tell the technician to get out of the kitchen and that their pressure cooker will not be exchanged for a new edition. How else are they going to feel better?
Not everyone is over joyed at this discovery that there is no pagan hell, because it serves a purpose in keeping in place the self justification in error of wishing others Hell for hurting them. Take that away and they will hate you or repent of their idol of false belief.
Repentance is the way to go but God is in charge of who He brings to repentance through His Goodness and Mercy.
All will repent in the end but some with more stripes, correction and more resistance to letting go of their false beliefs than others. As for those with less stripes and less resistance, it is for us to practice Mercy that God says is His method of judging us all. I know I need Mercy and Grace! Plenty of it continually.
I know that seeing it this way helps me to have pity on those who unconsciously and unknowingly depend on the false pain relief teachings of Babylon.
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
That was very insightful. I believe you may have something there!!!! :o
I just couldn't understand why a, seemingly, well mannered, loving Christian, would snarl hatefully at the idea of "NO HELL". But I think you may have answered my query!
Very Good then.
Thanks Arcturus. ;D
God Bless.
Dante
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I'm not arguing about them not believing in aplaceof eternal torment; I'm arguing about them calling it hell. They use the only Bible that says hell will be destroyed; why can't they call their place of eternal torment the lake of fire, like the bible insinuates? Their Bible clearly says hell 2 (the lake of fire) is eternal (from the way they interpret it), not hell. They can at least go around saying "burn in the lake of fire for all eternity" instead of "burn in hell for all eternity".
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I am glad you received something helpful from my post Dante.
Also just another thought. God is a consuming fire right? Does God change? No. Then think about Shadrach Meshach and Abed -nego. They were seen walking in the fire right? They were not burnt or harmed but were walking in the fire with Christ.
I believe we have to come to the place where nothing we have or have become can burn either. We know that grass and stubble can be burnt so this place for me is where I shall have no more attachments to the worlds carnality that will be burnt. That place is where we too will walk in Gods fire and commune with Him.
If a burning bush can do it then God can make us do it too. :) God will be God. He will save us all and we are more to God than that bush that did not burn that Moses saw. :)
All wickedness, deceits, selfishness and evil will be burnt off of us in the judgments of God either now or later. This is what Ray teaches in the judgments on the House of God now as in one of the two judgments. The other being the White Throne when Christ comes again in the Day of the Lord. That Day is still to come. We are blessed to be living in these times of calling us out.
Peace be with you
Arcturus :)
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God is a consuming fire right? Does God change? No.
So, he's an everlasting consuming fire?
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In the equasion of who has to change it is us who have to become like God not God who has to become like us. God is a consuming fire and God does not change. God is not hell but some might not agree with me. :)
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Perhaps this can explain it.....
A person goes through life using the false teaching that there is a hell, as their way of letting off steam when they are hurt, abused or persecuted by others. They get a sense of righteous indignation and they feel better by thinking that anyone who upsets them will go to Hell and that God will punish them in eternal torment.
Arcturus :)
The thought occurred to me when I read what you said, that maybe these are the murderers mentioned in Revelation who have their part in the lake of fire?
I mean compared to thinking and relishing that your enemies will be tortured for all eternity, real physical murder pales into insignificance!
1Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Just a thought.
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I am glad you received something helpful from my post Dante.
Also just another thought. God is a consuming fire right? Does God change? No. Then think about Shadrach Meshach and Abed -nego. They were seen walking in the fire right? They were not burnt or harmed but were walking in the fire with Christ.
I believe we have to come to the place where nothing we have or have become can burn either. We know that grass and stubble can be burnt so this place for me is where I shall have no more attachments to the worlds carnality that will be burnt. That place is where we too will walk in Gods fire and commune with Him.
If a burning bush can do it then God can make us do it too. :) God will be God. He will save us all and we are more to God than that bush that did not burn that Moses saw. :)
All wickedness, deceits, selfishness and evil will be burnt off of us in the judgments of God either now or later. This is what Ray teaches in the judgments on the House of God now as in one of the two judgments. The other being the White Throne when Christ comes again in the Day of the Lord. That Day is still to come. We are blessed to be living in these times of calling us out.
Peace be with you
Arcturus :)
Yes Arcturus, I agree.
I find TWO main things that are hampering my walk with God.
The MAIN TWO things that I struggle with is FEAR (which is not anywhere as bad as it used to be, once I ousted the Hell doctrine).
And TRUST.
They go hand in hand though. I want to know everything about God and his plan,....and the universe (Not to much to ask huh?? :D).
Of course I don't know everything, SO, I get fearful.
I have to learn to let go!!!!
The thing that kills me, is that, I HATE it about me. I want to LET GO, but find it near impossible to do so.
I believe it is God testing me, to make me more like him. To be ONE with his mind. He has burned away A LOT of the Garbage and is working on the rest. It is a painful process, just as the Lake of Fire is going to be. I would hope he finishes before I have to go there myself for correction. BUT, either way is going to have to be fine with me. Since God has his plan for ALL OF OUR LIVES. And if mine happens to include the Lake of Fire. Then that is what will be needed.
Just gotta trust God. Every man on his own path. Every man becoming one with our God creator.
Just gotta love that fact that God will not let anyone perish. It still gives me a "Kick" to think ON THAT ONE!!!!
Peace Arcturus.
Thanks for the talk.
Dante ;D
PS. Just talking about it and admitting to myself that I have a problem area, makes me feel better about it. Maybe this is a stepping stone and something I should do more often. Even if I have to talk to myself,....LOL!
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Perhaps this can explain it.....
A person goes through life using the false teaching that there is a hell, as their way of letting off steam when they are hurt, abused or persecuted by others. They get a sense of righteous indignation and they feel better by thinking that anyone who upsets them will go to Hell and that God will punish them in eternal torment.
Arcturus :)
The thought occurred to me when I read what you said, that maybe these are the murderers mentioned in Revelation who have their part in the lake of fire?
I mean compared to thinking and relishing that your enemies will be tortured for all eternity, real physical murder pales into insignificance!
1Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Just a thought.
I agree Martinez.
Yet everyone is a lawbreaker. So, everyone who has ever lived (Except Jesus Christ) is heading for correction in the Lake of Fire.
It is just that God calls and then he chooses. So it is up to God and God alone, to choose who he works on now and who he saves at the Lake of Fire.
We really don't have a lot to say in the matter.
But, it just came to me that if you agree with the Law and want to follow Christ, yet find it impossible to do so, you are in agreement with the Law and it is the Flesh that is holding you back.
This is in Romans, when Paul states that "the things that I want to do, I do not do, But the things that I do not want to do, I do!!"
This, I believe, Indicates that you are a follower of Christ. It is your Mind's conscious agreement that is the deciding factor and not necessarily what you do or do not do.
All of us have our problem areas (Of Sin), yet it is our minds agreement that show us where OUR HEART is at. And in my estimation, IS the deciding factor of who will or will not need correction in the Lake of Fire.
But, of course that is ALL UP TO GOD.
My Take on it.
Peace Brother.
Dante
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Hello Arcturus,
I think you are right about some of the people that believe in hell. the others may be like my sweet little momma who is aghast at my belief in "no hell", to the point that I'll go there if I don't believe in it. What fear is in her heart for me! I ask her why on earth is it that important, seemingly more important to believe in hell than it is to believe in God. She said that if I don't believe in hell, what is to keep me from sinning!!!! I said mom, God has put it in my heart to not want to sin. He is a good and loving God and if I mess up, which I will, I will be chastised. There are consequences other than being tortured for all eternity..... Jesus will WIN and Succeed in His mission of John 3:16-17. God is not a failure whose mission is thwarted by the puny "will of man". Praise God
Barbara
Perhaps this can explain it.....
A person goes through life using the false teaching that there is a hell, as their way of letting off steam when they are hurt, abused or persecuted by others. They get a sense of righteous indignation and they feel better by thinking that anyone who upsets them will go to Hell and that God will punish them in eternal torment.
Then someone comes along and takes away their neat little method of getting past feeling bitter and vengeful which is their own pressure valve teaching that there is a Hell and in which they receive false satisfaction that God agrees with them. What are they going to do when they find out this is not true? Explode or tell the technician to get out of the kitchen and that their pressure cooker will not be exchanged for a new edition. How else are they going to feel better?
Not everyone is over joyed at this discovery that there is no pagan hell, because it serves a purpose in keeping in place the self justification in error of wishing others Hell for hurting them. Take that away and they will hate you or repent of their idol of false belief.
Repentance is the way to go but God is in charge of who He brings to repentance through His Goodness and Mercy.
All will repent in the end but some with more stripes, correction and more resistance to letting go of their false beliefs than others. As for those with less stripes and less resistance, it is for us to practice Mercy that God says is His method of judging us all. I know I need Mercy and Grace! Plenty of it continually.
I know that seeing it this way helps me to have pity on those who unconsciously and unknowingly depend on the false pain relief teachings of Babylon.
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
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Perhaps this can explain it.....
A person goes through life using the false teaching that there is a hell, as their way of letting off steam when they are hurt, abused or persecuted by others. They get a sense of righteous indignation and they feel better by thinking that anyone who upsets them will go to Hell and that God will punish them in eternal torment.
Then someone comes along and takes away their neat little method of getting past feeling bitter and vengeful which is their own pressure valve teaching that there is a Hell and in which they receive false satisfaction that God agrees with them. What are they going to do when they find out this is not true? Explode or tell the technician to get out of the kitchen and that their pressure cooker will not be exchanged for a new edition. How else are they going to feel better?
Not everyone is over joyed at this discovery that there is no pagan hell, because it serves a purpose in keeping in place the self justification in error of wishing others Hell for hurting them. Take that away and they will hate you or repent of their idol of false belief.
Repentance is the way to go but God is in charge of who He brings to repentance through His Goodness and Mercy.
All will repent in the end but some with more stripes, correction and more resistance to letting go of their false beliefs than others. As for those with less stripes and less resistance, it is for us to practice Mercy that God says is His method of judging us all. I know I need Mercy and Grace! Plenty of it continually.
I know that seeing it this way helps me to have pity on those who unconsciously and unknowingly depend on the false pain relief teachings of Babylon.
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
Great Explanation Arcturus,
I'm especially referring to Paragraphs 1 & 2, regarding those who have in the past been hurt by others and desire their punishment, what better way to punish them for what they did to me, by having God sentence them to Eternal Hell-fire, their justification is that these individuals did this to ME and I want them punished, because I'm HURT. While in the emotional state of all this, what they don't realize is that the punishment they want them to receive exceeds the crime committed. We see this on a small scale in Bad Parenting Methods, A father will punish a child in excess of the gravity of the infraction, whereas some parents have an anything goes attitude in their response to their childs bad behavior. The parent that over reacts like the first one mentioned is usually hurting inside and is taking it out on the child.
All of us have the potential to react to some grave injustice against us by, at the very least, experiencing thoughts of the person that harmed us to " get theirs ", so to speak. We would do well to keep in mind the scenario you expressed in the above paragraphs(1 & 2), when some terrible act is commited against us. In my case, a grievous act commited against one of my Daughters would be my test, I'd include my wife in that, but because she's tougher than I am, the perpetrator against her would have his hands full. When our Minds and Hearts are completely filled by Gods' Spirit by whats' expressed at Romans. 12:(7-12), we will experience peace of mind. In your second paragraph, it's almost as if people are saying: " HOW DARE YOU TELL ME GOD ISN'T GOING TORTURE PEOPLE FOREVER FOR WHAT THEY DID TO ME " I used to respond to people by saying, We all have our own list of people we would want punished and all our lists differ, based on the personal injustices that we've received. God is running the show and he is in control, not us, HIS WILL BE DONE, NOT OURS, besides everyone of us is incapable of providing perfect and fair justice towards those that have deeply harmed us.
Your Brother in Christ, Samson.
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Dear Martinez
Thank you for posting that Scripture. It certainly is the litmus test of how we all stand before God. That being wretched, naked and pitiful. Our thoughts are certainly not God’s thoughts towards His creation because we still see pleasure and pain, goodness and wickedness and we still favour one above the other not counting our trials and tribulations as our reasons for joy and hope. Who has really embraced what James says 1 : 2 Consider it wholly JOYFUL, my brethren, whenever you are enveloped in or encounter TRIALS OF ANY SORT or fall into various temptations.
EXCUSE ME! WHAT! Consider it wholly JOYFUL when assaulted, harmed, attacked, abused, mistreated, insulted, cursed, hated….well you know…we all get the picture don’t we but. Consider it wholly JOYFUL? What is that! ?
Well now put this little snippet of advice together with the insight that we are given through Ray’s teaching regarding the pride of heart in the King of Assyria.
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html
God tells us that the Assyrian did only what He Himself intended for him to do. Paul, likewise, assures us that no one ever has or can go against God’s “intention or purpose.” How then is God justified in punishing the King of Assyria or anyone else for doing what God “intended” for them to do? The answer lies in the HEART of mankind. God said that He would punish “the fruit of his ARROGANT HEART”……
Assyria is just one of “ALL the kingdoms of the world” which are the personal domain of Satan the Devil. Did Satan exercise his “free will” over Assyria? Or did God say that He used Assyria like it was a club in God’s own hand? God uses Satan over the nations as He wills Satan to will, not as Satan himself “free wills.” God uses the nations themselves to will as He wills the nations to will, not as the nations themselves “free will.” If we are to believe the Scriptures rather than the heresy of men, where does Satan or any of the nations possess “free will?” unquote
So when we experience injustice, slander, persecution, it is God using our adversaries to crush out of us our arrogant hearts of self importance, self worth and self aggrandizement. This is a very painful process for us indeed as our idols of our hearts are dismantled and destroyed if we do not realize as James explains and as is shown in the above teachings from Ray, that this is God’s work on those children He would rebuke, scourge, discipline and bring to perfection.
Peace to you brother
Arcturus :)
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Dear Dante
You state : I want to know everything about God and his plan,....and the universe (Not to much to ask huh?? ).
Consider the following :
Daniel 10 : 11, 12 And the angel said to me, O Daniel (Dante) you greatly beloved man, understand the words that I speak to you and stand upright, for you I am now sent. And while he was saying this word to me, I stood up trembling. Then he said to me, Fear not Daniel, (Dante) for from the first day that you set your mind and heart to understand and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come as a consequence of and in response to your words.
Eph 1 : 17 For I always pray to the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, that He may grant you a spirit of wisdom and revelation of insight into mysteries and secrets in the deep and intimate KNOWLEDGE OF HIM. By having the eyes of your heart flooded with light, so that you can know and understand the hope to which He has called you, and how rich is His glorious inheritance in the saints, His set-apart ones. And so that you can KNOW AND UNDERSTAND what is the immeasurable and unlimited and surpassing greatness of His power in and for us who believe, as demonstrated in the working of His mighty strength.
Then you say quote : Just gotta love that fact that God will not let anyone perish. It still gives me a "Kick" to think ON THAT ONE!!!!
I prefer to see it this way Job 19 : 25 For I know that my Redeemer and Vindicator lives, and at last He will stand upon the earth. And after my skin, even this body, had been destroyed, THEN from my flesh or without it, I SHALL SEE GOD.
1 COR 3 : 15 But if any person’s work is burned up under the test, he will suffer the loss of it all, losing his reward, thought he HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, but only as one who has passed through fire.
Jer 30 : 11 For I am with you, says the Lord, to save you, for I will make a full and complete end of all the nations to which I have scattered you, but I will not make a full and complete end of you. But I will correct you in measure and with judgment and will no sense hold you guiltless or leave you unpunished.
Job 23 : 10 but HE knows the way that I take (no free will!) He has concern for it, appreciates, and pays attention to it. When He has tried me, I shall come forth as refined gold, pure and luminous. ….…and Job got that right! 8)
You add an important foot note Dante as a PS…you say quote : Just talking about it and admitting to myself that I have a problem area, makes me feel better about it. Maybe this is a stepping stone and something I should do more often. Even if I have to talk to myself,....
The self you talk to is my self too. My self too is the wretched beast to whom I am chained until set free in full when Christ redeems me in full from my carnal grave.
Peace to you brother
Arcturus :)
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Hello Barbara
I hear what you say about your moma. I too have the suffering of blood relatives who do not see yet. It is a chastising experience to feel love for our family and know that they are not yet given to see what we see or know what we know.
I think God is teaching me endurance, patience, trust and desire for my more carnal family to be healed and restored. Jesus after all, went about healing EVERYONE of ALL their diseases. WE too have to become like Him. Not inclusive of only who we choose should or should not be healed, but knowing, trusting and believing that all will be saved in the order ordained by the Wisdom and Understanding of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is a humbling exercise of discipline that hurts when we know our loved ones just do not get it yet.
Blessed peace be to you sister
Arcturus :)
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Hello Samson
You said ….referring to Paragraphs 1 & 2,….
That is so funny. I wanted to delete those paragraphs. ::) Shows how much I know heh! Then you come right in and up front show interest in those paragraphs I in my stupidity, wanted to delete! :-\
You say…. what they don't realize is that the punishment they want them to receive exceeds the crime committed.
This comment made me recall that once I learnt that we are the most notorious judges against ourselves. We never forget our errors and replay them over and over again never getting past them, never forgiving ourselves and running into escapes to paralyse, not face or simple put behind us our errors. This we do without Christ. With Christ we repent, know we are the Beast, and begin the slow painful walk into the light of the knowledge that we have no free will and we depend in entirety on the Faith of Christ and His won victory death and resurrection till He comes again.
You nail it with this observation : everyone of us is incapable of providing perfect and fair justice towards those that have deeply harmed us.
This is the nature of the beast. Incapable, imperfect, unfair and deeply harmful to all of us. As was Christ so crucified, so too do we die daily as He increases in us.
Blessed Peace to you brother
Arcturus :)
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Dear Dante
You state : I want to know everything about God and his plan,....and the universe (Not to much to ask huh?? ).
Consider the following :
Daniel 10 : 11, 12 And the angel said to me, O Daniel (Dante) you greatly beloved man, understand the words that I speak to you and stand upright, for you I am now sent. And while he was saying this word to me, I stood up trembling. Then he said to me, Fear not Daniel, (Dante) for from the first day that you set your mind and heart to understand and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come as a consequence of and in response to your words.
Eph 1 : 17 For I always pray to the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, that He may grant you a spirit of wisdom and revelation of insight into mysteries and secrets in the deep and intimate KNOWLEDGE OF HIM. By having the eyes of your heart flooded with light, so that you can know and understand the hope to which He has called you, and how rich is His glorious inheritance in the saints, His set-apart ones. And so that you can KNOW AND UNDERSTAND what is the immeasurable and unlimited and surpassing greatness of His power in and for us who believe, as demonstrated in the working of His mighty strength.
Then you say quote : Just gotta love that fact that God will not let anyone perish. It still gives me a "Kick" to think ON THAT ONE!!!!
I prefer to see it this way Job 19 : 25 For I know that my Redeemer and Vindicator lives, and at last He will stand upon the earth. And after my skin, even this body, had been destroyed, THEN from my flesh or without it, I SHALL SEE GOD.
1 COR 3 : 15 But if any person’s work is burned up under the test, he will suffer the loss of it all, losing his reward, thought he HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, but only as one who has passed through fire.
Jer 30 : 11 For I am with you, says the Lord, to save you, for I will make a full and complete end of all the nations to which I have scattered you, but I will not make a full and complete end of you. But I will correct you in measure and with judgment and will no sense hold you guiltless or leave you unpunished.
Job 23 : 10 but HE knows the way that I take (no free will!) He has concern for it, appreciates, and pays attention to it. When He has tried me, I shall come forth as refined gold, pure and luminous. ….…and Job got that right! 8)
You add an important foot note Dante as a PS…you say quote : Just talking about it and admitting to myself that I have a problem area, makes me feel better about it. Maybe this is a stepping stone and something I should do more often. Even if I have to talk to myself,....
The self you talk to is my self too. My self too is the wretched beast to whom I am chained until set free in full when Christ redeems me in full from my carnal grave.
Peace to you brother
Arcturus :)
Thanks so much for the inspiration Arcturus.
I appreciate the passages and have found much wisdom in the words that you have wrote.
I have read them over about 5 or 6 times fully.
Thank you and God bless!
Dante
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Hi Dante
You thank me for the words I wrote. Well I did not write them. They are God's Words and they shall not return to Him empty.
You do me well brother that you have read them with sobre consideration.
Blessed Peace be to you
Arc.