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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: FREEINDEED on February 21, 2007, 09:06:18 AM
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I was watching Oprah Friday and she had a guest on there talking about a DVD and Book entitle "The Secret." The book is basically talking about positive thinking/visualization. Meaning that if your more positive your life will be better. I kind of agree with this, because I have experience this in my personal life and I also try to tell people that things will be better if they would think more positively about their situation instead of being negative. But now I would like to dig a little bit more deeper. I would like to know how you feel about this. Is it True or False. I really want to know if there are any Scriptures to back up this Theory.
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FreeIndeed,
Sounds very much like Christain Science and the Unity way of thinking. Guys help me out, there's tons of Scriptures that say that we will face trials.
Think on Jesus, one of the most positive thinkers in the bible, yet he ended getting nailed to a cross. What about Paul, whose writings are for the most part upbeat and very passionate, and yet there is a chapter that states all that has happened to him, him getting beaten, starving, shipwricked, whipped, and ect. Then we can think of John the Apostle, he got exiled. King David, a man after God's own heart, sinned with Uriah's wife and then by counting the fighting men later on. Solomon who was the wisest man, sinned by marrying all those women and following their gods thus, introducing idolotry in the life.
I believe it is James Chapter 1 that talks about trials. This life is not promised to be easy for sure. Yet, it always helps with positive thinking. If I cut my arm off, and I think positive about it not bleeding, well guess what, it is going to bleed very profusely. There is nothing wrong with positive thinking or visualization, yet when we let it get to the point that is all that consumes us and we are blinded to God's Word becuase it feels good, well then there is something really, really, wrong, and it is not God's Word.
IN several of the Proverbs it does talk about one being cheerful and laughing, and one assumes that it takes postivie thinking to get to this one.
Okay, now visuazation <sic>, unfortnately, I am out of my league here. Personally, and personally, I think nothing is wrong with it depending on what you are visualizing. It helps me remember more of what I read in the bible, but that is as far as I take it.
Most of Unity's doctrines of which the Secret talks and expounds greatly upon are mostly good feeling doctrines. You become blinded by all the "white light" philosophy. If you wish to PM me to talk more about any of this, you are more than welcome to.
I would always and have no problem exhorting one to think positive, but do not fall into the trap if you do, you will escape trouble or trials.
Kat, or anyone out there, again the Scripture actual verses and chapters fail my mind. I have a somewhat amazing memory being able to recall most of it it, but I cannot recall chapter and verses. If you know where some of this stuff is and have time, I would really appreciate if you would post the corresponding chapters and verses.
I hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
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A cheerful heart doeth good like medicine!!!
A positive outlook on things does make it easier for people to be around you!! Negativity saps everybody.
Also, being positive in the midst of trials shows your trust in God to work it all out.
I do think some people were "born" w/ a sunny disposition and others have to cultivate one.
Read Philllipians. Paul is full of joy and positive outlooks.
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Freeindeed & Anne,
Hey, how are you guys? I hope well… I saw this thread this morning and thought I would take a few minutes to respond if that’s ok.
Positive thinking/Visualization cannot change a situation; all it can do is change how we respond to a situation and what we learn from the situation, because having hope allows us to see possibilities and avenues of positive action that we may not see when we feel hopeless or as though all is lost.
The problem arises when positive thinking/visualization becomes an idol of the heart… the thing that we turn to or depend on rather then a product of our faith in God and our trust in Him to do what is truly right.
If someone came to me and asked… “Josh, you always seem to be so cheerful/positive even in the worst of times, how do you do it?” I surely would not say… “Well I just try to think positive about every situation and attempt to visualize a positive outcome.” I would not do this because I would be taking the credit for something only God can do and provide. I instead would answer in a manner similar to this: “
2 Corinthians 12:9-10
8: Three times I besought the Lord about this, that it should leave me;
9: but he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." I will all the more gladly boast of my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
10: For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities; for when I am weak, then I am strong.
I would answer in this way because I believe the words of Christ, speaking through the apostles in His word:
James 1:2-4
2: Count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet various trials,
3: for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.
4: And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
Romans 5:1-5
1: Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
2: Through him we have obtained access to this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in our hope of sharing the glory of God.
3: More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance,
4: and endurance produces character, and character produces hope,
5: and hope does not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit which has been given to us.
For those of us who strive to make our election sure, we can keep a positive attitude because we have hope in knowing these words of Paul:
Romans 8:18
18: I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
Hope this helps.
Grace and Peace.
Josh
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Positive thinking/Visualization cannot change a situation; all it can do is change how we respond to a situation and what we learn from the situation, because having hope allows us to see possibilities and avenues of positive action that we may not see when we feel hopeless or as though all is lost.
Josh I love what you wrote. That was very well said and edifying! In this first part you acknowledge that while positive thinking/Visualization, I prefer being optimistic, is not what changes our circumstances but it changes how we respond to our situation which allows us to see possibilities and avenues of positive action that we wouldn't see if we were negative.
So there is value in how we think and how it manifest in our life. Sometimes we have to reckon something to be so even if we can't feel it though because God said it. Let God be true and every man a liar. (including ourself and our negative thoughts.)
The problem arises when positive thinking/visualization becomes an idol of the heart… the thing that we turn to or depend on rather then a product of our faith in God and our trust in Him to do what is truly right.
I agree with you. We need to put our hope in God not in our thoughts!
If someone came to me and asked… “Josh, you always seem to be so cheerful/positive even in the worst of times, how do you do it?” I surely would not say… “Well I just try to think positive about every situation and attempt to visualize a positive outcome.” I would not do this because I would be taking the credit for something only God can do and provide. I instead would answer in a manner similar to this: “
2 Corinthians 12:9-10
8: Three times I besought the Lord about this, that it should leave me;
9: but he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." I will all the more gladly boast of my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
10: For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities; for when I am weak, then I am strong.
I would answer in this way because I believe the words of Christ, speaking through the apostles in His word:
James 1:2-4
2: Count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet various trials,
3: for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.
4: And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
Romans 5:1-5
1: Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
2: Through him we have obtained access to this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in our hope of sharing the glory of God.
3: More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance,
4: and endurance produces character, and character produces hope,
5: and hope does not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit which has been given to us.
For those of us who strive to make our election sure, we can keep a positive attitude because we have hope in knowing these words of Paul:
Romans 8:18
18: I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
Hope this helps.
Grace and Peace.
Josh
Thank you for those scriptures Josh! They bring back the spiritual peace and joy that has eluding me lately.
I am reminded of how Romans 8:18 helped me through one of the hardest times in my life. It would do me well to contemplate on those scriptures. What wonderful and precious promises we have in the word. Even greater is Christ in us the hope of Glory. Col 1:27
Bless You! :)
~Paula
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Hello Friendindeed
You ask :
I would like to know how you feel about this. I feel sickened.
Is it True or False. It is FALSE
I really want to know if there are any Scriptures to back up this Theory. I am not going against anything any one has said here in this thread because the scriptures do not contradict! There are no scriptures to how I understand this that endorse us to seek being positive without knowing Christ or putting Him first.....as is exemplified in the exchanges being shared in this thread so beautifully.
As far as I know there are NO scriptures that BACK UP this "therory" . as you relate it Friendindeed.
You will find several referrals in Scripture that will tell you what God thinks about demonology and what and how we are to respond to it too. Demonology and heresy has PLENTY to back it up!...but not from God only from mis-led mankind.
You yourself seem to have come to an awareness that if Gods word does not back it then it is false. It is a real false teaching that says that man can, should or endeavour to positively think or will his way into a better life. The seduction of best seller books or most hightly paid women is what it is. A seduction.
No man has any say over where he was born, what gifts and talents he has given to him from God or when he will die. All is in the power and authority of God.
Ray's Myth of Free Will gets the real truth in the open. Get into some real back up that pulls the illusion out of the deception and tears it up thorough real insight in Gods Word and enjoy reading the rich wisdom and truth about Gods word that is given freely and published on this site by Ray. If God has it in His plan, you will come to enjoy a deeper and richer comprehensive insight into HIS ways and thoughts. Don’t be deceived . There are many men and women trying to win favour of men at the cost of your Dollar. Rules and role models of man or woman of the worldly ungodly high apsirants for worldly happiness, gratification and satisfaction.
Matt 23 : 13 But woe to you, scribes ( scribes....writers of books and theories on how to get better, be better, get higher and be higher ) and Pharisees,( Religious leaders) pretenders, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces: for you neither enter yourselves, ( they can not enter into the comprehensive understanding and knowledge that God is Sovereign) nor do you allow those who are about to go in to do so.
Mtt 6 : 33 But seek, aim at and strive after first of all His kingdom and His righteousness: His way of doing and being right, ( His way of doing and being is Sovereign and the teaching on this is revealed and unveiled in the Myth of Free Will by Ray) and then all these things taken together will be given you besides.
Peace to you
Arcturus.
:)
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Hello FriendIndeed and Arcturus :)
FriendIndeed wrote:
I was watching Oprah Friday and she had a guest on there talking about a DVD and Book entitle "The Secret." The book is basically talking about positive thinking/visualization. Meaning that if your more positive your life will be better. I kind of agree with this, because I have experience this in my personal life and I also try to tell people that things will be better if they would think more positively about their situation instead of being negative. But now I would like to dig a little bit more deeper. I would like to know how you feel about this. Is it True or False. I really want to know if there are any Scriptures to back up this Theory.
Arcturus You said:
I really want to know if there are any Scriptures to back up this Theory. I am not going against anything any one has said here in this thread because the scriptures do not contradict! There are no scriptures to how I understand this that endorse us to seek being positive without knowing Christ or putting Him first.....as is exemplified in the exchanges being shared in this thread so beautifully.
As far as I know there are NO scriptures that BACK UP this "therory" . as you relate it Friendindeed.
Arcturus, let me answer you first in as kind and as gentle manner as a bother should. :)
Pro 15:13 A merry heart maketh a cheerful countenance: but by sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken.
Pro 15:14 The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge: but the mouth of fools feedeth on foolishness.
Pro 15:15 All the days of the afflicted [are] evil: but he that is of a merry heart [hath] a continual feast.
Let us take a closer look at the words "merry" and "cheerful"
Merry (sameach) [8056]
1) joyful, merry, glad
a) joyful, showing joy
b) you who rejoice (subst)
Cheerful (yatab) [3190]
1) to be good, be pleasing, be well, be glad
a) (Qal)
1) to be glad, be joyful
2) to be well placed
3) to be well for, be well with, go well with
4) to be pleasing, be pleasing to
b) (Hiphil)
1) to make glad, rejoice
2) to do good to, deal well with
3) to do well, do thoroughly
4) to make a thing good or right or beautiful
5) to do well, do right
Arcturus my dear sister, I believe too that the Scriptures do not contradict, therefore, I see the above Scripture as proof that we should always be thankful and gracious in everything that we do. We should always seek first to be glad and joyful; we can be sorrowful yet still rejoice in the fact that we can deal well with any situation and turn it around and make it good, right or beautiful in a positive rather than a negative manner. :)
Pual speaks of this here:
2Cr 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and [yet] possessing all things.
Even though one may have nothing , we are are always to remain positive, gracious for what we do have, not saddened or disheartened for what we don't have. Surely if we follow always the teachings of a joyful heart, we will possess spiritual happiness as in "possesing all things."
Luk 12:27 Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Luk 12:28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more [will he clothe] you, O ye of little faith?
Luk 12:29 And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.
Luk 12:30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
I see no evil or wrong in having a positive, uplifting and gracious attitude. :)
FriendIndeed, the world is so troubled over what it doesn't have, that it often forgets to think about what it does have. :)
Love to you both in Christ,
Darren
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Josh
Great post. Thinking positvely may not ensure succes but thinking negatively absolutely increases the likelihood of failure. How could we have any greater positve than Jesus in us, joy abounding and the phenomenal incredible understanding of truth we are glimpsing now and will experience fully in the twinkling of an eye at the resurrection ?!
Askseeknock
Charles
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But just think, we can think positively because that's the way God made us! But on the other hand there are those (I know few) who can never feel positive about anything (just leaa negative, you know what I mean?), again because God made them that way. So we need to thank God for, among so many other things and all things, for making us capable of positive thinking!--Deb aka snorky
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Great response Deb (Snorky)
All is of God. I do not find it hard to believe that God may be working inside of many people today, who in their childhood, totally rejected the church for the lies, untruths and fallacies it presented. These people are out of the Church, because they never got caught up in it her harlotness.
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Such are these may be positive and uplifting and sadly ignorant by our standards, but who are we to question God for it is quite possible, the next newbie that joins this forum, comes from such as these and we will welcome this one with open arms and the love that only true followers of Christ can give.
We must NEVER forget that "we" did not find God, HE FOUND US!! :) :)
Great post Deb,
Brotherly Love in Christ,
Darren
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To All,
Wow what a treat to come home and read this thread after a long day. I got to help Susan with some of her home school activies and am a little tired, but my spirits are uplifted. Darren what a way to write, that's awesome. In Medias Res <sic?> I liked what you wrote in your post. It is what I was trying to say in that long post that I wrote this morning. Thanks for saying it simple.
Thanks for posting all of this. I can now see that I too have grown and am feeling like I am now on my way.
God bless all of you all.
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
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God can and does take the bad things in our lives and gets glory from them doesn't He? Nobody asked me if I "wanted to be abused and molested" but I was when I was too little to even defend myself. When I was a little girl, I used to wish I could be a bug. They were tiny and could hide in cracks and stuff so the grown ups couldn't see them. As bad as it was I believe God turned it to good in that I have been able to talk to other little children that this had happened to. Because of my experience, which I know God would not have wanted to happen to a kid, I have been able to , hopefully, give them some hope that they could grow up and be okay. I will always have physical problems because of what happened. I still have to go from time to time for more surgeries to remove the scar tissue as it compromises my internal organs. My back will always hurt because it was fractured 2 times but this is my life. I won't think negative of it but choose to see the good that came from the bad. I know it sounds pretty stupid but that is how I have chosen to live my life. Everybody has troubles but we can see the good if we look real hard.
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Proverbs 23:7 says - For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he.
i believe a true born again bible believing saint as to be careful with reading all these other books. They can Proverbs 14:12 - There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. have some tremendous insight, but the only thing is you may be visiting ungodly cites/sites. You have to worry about the cookies that may be left over.
Stay in THE WORD and don't necessarily expect a quick fix. God usually deal with us over time. Look at Moses, Abraham, Joseph, and many other of the patriarchs and leaders of the early church. They're alot of seducing spirits. Be careful with these books...
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Point well taken Bradigan. :)
The Scriptures are not required to align with anything other than itself (the Word of God); however, information that we choose take from other books MUST always align with the Scriptures.
It's a simple test, but often over looked.
Thanks again for your warning,
Your Brother in Christ,
Darren
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Galatians 5
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Email from Ray
I think that you are confusing "gift" with "fruit." God gives us the "gift" of faith to start the ball rolling , so to speak, but he does not at the same time gift us with "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithFULNESS, gentleness and self-control" so that we can then live a righteous and good life. We must all PRODUCE, YIELD, BRING FORTH, and BEAR much fruit. All of these terms are used in Scripture and all of them are a process of growth, they are not supernatural gifts.
God be with you,
Ray
I can't say enough against the positive thinking techniques and visualization techniques in the way they are used in the church and in the world today. Names like Robert Schuller with the power of positive thinking and Norman Vincent Peale with the power of praise come to mind. Do this and you'll get that.
Proverbs 23
7For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
I do not believe this scripture is telling us to use positive thinking. I believe this scripture is telling us that we can tell who a man is by what he thinks in his heart. It is not telling us to think differently so we will be different. Only God can change our heart.
Matthew 15
16"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. 17"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' "
Philippians 4:8
8Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
1 Timothy 4
13Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
14Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
15Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
16Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
Ps 77:12 I will meditate also of all thy work, and talk of thy doings.
Ps 104:34 My meditation of him shall be sweet: I will be glad in the LORD.
Ps 119:15 I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.
Ps 119:99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.
Ps 119:148 Mine eyes prevent the night watches, that I might meditate in thy word.
Ps 143:5 I remember the days of old; I meditate on all thy works; I muse on the work of thy hands.
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I would like to thank everyone for responding. I learned a lot from this post.
Be Blessed.
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Hi everyone,
This is a good thread for me. The last couple of days, God has really been putting me through some real testing. It's no fun! I have tried to stay positive but I just couldn't. I don't even know where this came from but nothing I can do will bring me out except God. You guys are right, all these books and sermons from these money hungry self-appointed guru's of Christianity, are Babylonish garbage that deceive our minds.
You know, I see everone's point here and there's been some good ones. Nobody, would like to have a merry heart right now more than I, but until God gives me one I won't have one. I just can't conjure up one. You would think someone that has been with the Lord as long as I have and has gone through has many trials as I have, would be able to know how to get out of it, but it's God working in me both to will and to do of His good pleasure. I bet Paul had that thorn in his flesh till the day that he died.
" That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:" 1 Pet. 1:7.
God has been trying my faith, but my faith is more precious than gold because we live by the faith of the Son of God. So even my faith belongs to God.
Just when we think we have made a little progress, God humbles us, (excuse me while I dust off all this powder) and crushes us. I know that it's for our good, but while your'e going through it, it doesn't feel good.
God is taking out our stoney hearts and giving us a heart of flesh (His heart). It's really true what Ray says, the fruit of the Spirit is not a gift but rather something that's produced and except a grain of wheat fall to the ground and die, it cannot produce fruit.
You know, I feel a little better just confessing this to all of you.
Your brother,
Dwight
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Hi Dwight,
Keep your EYES ON JESUS and this too shall pass! HE will SEE you through.
You are in my prayers.
Lisa
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Dwight, you too are in my prayers.
While reading your post a much used Scripture came to mind. This whole thread has been about thinking positively and visualizing an outcome that is not only beneficial but beautiful as well. However, doing so will not and cannpt prevent trials and hardships along the way.
The Scripture that really fits, at least to me is Davids, Psalm 23. :)
Psa 23:1 The LORD [is] my shepherd; I shall not want.
Psa 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
Psa 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
Psa 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou [art] with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Psa 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Psa 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
Yes, David knew that he would face trials and tribulations as he walked through his "valley of the shadow of death." I am sure that most here know exactly what he meant. :)
Though David faced such times, his faith and love for our God was with him always. He was able to see and feel Gods comfort and protection and I believe that his faith allowed him to visualize the "goodness" and "mercy" that God would provide him all through his life.
Take care my friend, there is so much to learn and I trust God that you will come out of your dark "valley" all the wiser and stronger because of it. :)
Brotherly Love in Christ,
Darren
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Hello Dwight
Your post was as a strengthening balm to my soul. Thank you.
Acts 14 : 22 Establishing and strengthening the souls and hearts of the disciples, urging and warning and encouraging them to stand firm in the faith, and telling them that it is through many hardships and tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Thank you Dwight and thank you Jennie.
Jennie, I know that God has caused all in your life to drag you to him. You are one of a handful of called that are here with us today. I thank God that he dragged you here. You brighten up our days.
Dwight, I was reminded of this scripture after reading what you wrote. Sometimes we are giving all we have from our want and not from our abundance. We give what God has given us to give.
Mark 12
42And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
43And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
44For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
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Maybe because I am a country person, dragging makes me think of being pulled by the collar with gravels scraping your back. I think of God's open arms accepting me and loving me. Loving me.... imagine that! A kid/teen who was so low and felt so undeserving of god's love and acceptance. I pictured myself as something way, way low but God saw something different.
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Lisa said, "Keep your EYES ON JESUS and this too shall pass! HE will SEE you through."
This reminds me of that chorus, "...turn your eyes upon Jesus....look full in His wonderful face....and the things of earth will grow strangely dim....in the light of His glory and grace.." Oh Lord! cause us to keep our eyes only on you.
"Psalms 27:4 - One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple."
Darren writes, "...there is so much to learn..." Matt. 11:29, " Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls."
Arcturus says, "..a strengthening balm to my soul.." Again, another chorus comes to mind, "...it is well...it is well...with my soul..."
M.G. "...sometimes we are giving all we have from our want and not from our abundance..." " Psalms 37:11 - But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace."
Thank you all for your love and understanding; it really helps to walk with the Lord when we walk together.
In His mercy and peace,
Dwight
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Col 3: 16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
I can almost hear the heavenly choir. Beautiful.
Praise be to God.
Lisa
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Even when things are going extremely bad, you are to remember who you are and what is in store for you at the end of things.
"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice (jump up and down happy) , and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." Matthew 5:11-12
Count it all joy. Be anxious for nothing. Whatever is of good report, think on such things. God is working it all to good.
CIY
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Wow. I am blessed by this thread!!
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The Myth of "Free Will" Exposed - Part C
Excerpts:
This “experience of evil” is not the purpose or goal of human existence, but this is indeed the process by which God is bringing His Sons and Daughters into glory! Most translations have hidden the meaning of this verse of Scripture. The translations just couldn’t believe that God would do such a thing. They see it all around them. They see it in thousands of Scriptures, but they just couldn’t bring themselves to come right out and say it, as God obviously has stated in the original Hebrew of this verse.
“It is an EXPERIENCE of EVIL that God has given to the sons of humanity to HUMBLE them by it.”
And to this agrees the rest of Scripture:
“For ALL his days are SORROWS, and his travail [experience] GRIEF…” (Ecc. 2:23).
The destiny of the human race is indeed GLORIOUS, but the journey is filled with evil and sorrow. This not to say that there are not many beautiful and good things in life, but for most the misery far far outweighs the pleasurable.
Do not be deceived: when Jesus said—“…I am come that they might have life and that they might have it more abundantly” (John 10:10), He was surely not speaking about this life, now, in the flesh! Contrary to the evil teachings of prosperity ministers, Jesus never promised us LARGER HOMES AND GREATER MATERIAL POSSESSIONS after we start following in His steps.
Jesus said that if we leave our parents, families, houses and possessions for His sake that we would receive a hundred fold of parents, families, houses and possessions NOW. But He was not speaking of receiving back NOW, these same PHYSICAL parents, families, and possessions, but rather the families and possessions we would receive NOW would be SPIRITUAL.
Does anyone really believe that if we leave our PHYSICAL PARENTS that He will give us another, different set of PHYSICAL PARENTS? Well, yes, I guess there are those who are so spiritually ignorant that they might really believe that they will receive a brand new set of BIRTHING PARENTS to take the place of the ones they left. However, the truth is: “…the words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT…” (John 6:63).
CLAY DOES NOT POSSESS SELF-DETERMINISM
“God is the Potter; we are the clay.” When will we ever humble ourselves and believe the Word of God? This is GOD’S metaphor, not mine. Clay does not possess the power to thwart the plans of the Potter. Yet Christians profess that they possess a power that can thwart the purpose of God, and they even go so far as to say that God Himself gave to them this God-thwarting power. Do some think that when they exercise their “free will” contrary to God’s purpose that maybe “THEY are the Potter and God is the clay?”
And so, God has “obscured” his heart from seeing and understanding this Spiritual Truth. It takes a supernatural revelation from God to “spiritually discern” this deepest of human mysteries. And it is for the very fact that it is from the very HEART of man that he presumes to take to himself a presumed power GREATER THAN GOD HIMSELF, that He will “PUNISH HIS [MAN’S] ARROGANT AND HAUGHTY HEART.”
We are “accountable” for what comes out of our arrogant heart, but God is “responsible” for giving us such an heart in the first place.
Ignorantly assuming that one has a “free will” is a sin for which God can grant repentance [NOW]. But is “Arrogantly” clinging to this idol of the heart after God has shown it to you in His Word is BLASPHEMY, which assuredly will be punished [LATER]!
For me visualisation techniques, feel good new age teachings and Christian doctrines all aim towards carnal objectives.They do not uncover the Kingdom of God and niether does Mystery Babylon teachings that use scriputre to endorse errors and heresy. For me deceptive and erroneous teaching leads to self and not to the knowledge and comprehensive insight into the ways and thoughts of God because they do not show God, His way or His truths.
By contrast....the excerpts from LOF for me show clearly Gods ways and truths. Elsewhere in the teachings on BT Ray discusses the ways of God regarding contrasts and also in the Mobil Conference Audio 2 contrasts is also addressed.
Even having read it or heard it once or twice, I find it is not enough because each re-visit to Ray's teachings, reveals something else! ;D :D
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Arcturus writes, "For me visualisation techniques, feel good new age teachings and Christian doctrines all aim towards carnal objectives."
How true!! We were all taught that if we could just visualize being healthy, wealthy and wise, we would be. They (the blind guides) took everything that was meant to be spiritual and turned it into physical. The abundant life for them is big houses, cars, boats and everything that the world has....just don't worship them and you'll be okay! If you just have enough faith, God will give all these things to you.
Yet, God says, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb. 11:1. If we would just see that what we can't see, in Christ, is eternal and everything that we can see (physically) is temporal, we would live the abundnant life. Our real substance is in what we hope for.
The trials, tribulations and testings of our faith is what's more precious than gold...that's what God is after in us. Arcturus quoted Ray, "This experience of evil is not the purpose or goal of human existence, but this is indeed the process by which God is bringing His Sons and Daughters into glory."
Thank God we have a brother who has seen these truths and is able by God's mercy to show them to us.
In Him,
Dwight
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Thank you Dwight,
This Psalm came to me last night and I believe it adds to the theme in this thread!
Psalm 119 : 67 Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now Your Word do I keep, hearing, receiving, loving and obeying it. 71. It was GOOD FOR ME to be afflicted that I might LEARN your statutes. 75. I know O Lord, that your laws are righteous, and IN FAITHFULNESS YOU HAVE AFFLICTED ME.
Affliction is anathema to the carnal mind and flesh. It is foolishness
1 Cor 1 : 18 For the story and message of the cross is sheer absurdity and folly to those who are perishing and on their way to perdition, but to us who are being saved it is the manifestation of the power of God….
It is the necessary correction to wandering away from and loosing sight of the ways and purposes of God making us His children.
Heb 12 : 8 So don’t feel sorry for yourselves. Or have you forgotten how good parents treat children, and that God regards you as HIS children? My dear child, don’t shrug off God’s discipline, but don’t be crushed by it either. It’s the child He loves that He disciplines; the child He embraces, He also corrects. (The Message Translation)
….how bad’s it been? Have you drawn blood yet? Treat these hassles like a good workout. God’s just being a dad. Every son knows how dads try and knockoff our rough edges. If he doesn’t bother, and they all do, then maybe you’re not his! We’ve all had human dads who’ve stood up to us and we’ve respected them for it later. So times that by a hundred to show how we’ve got to take in what our Spiritual Father says. Our dads did their best to knock us into shape, and God coaches us so we mi9ght stand out like He’s outstanding. I am not saying you’ll enjoy it! It’ll probably be a rough ride…… :D (The word on the street Translation)
Probably is an understatement ;D
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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This has been such a good thread.
It has really made me think!
Thank you!!!
Iris
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The idea of positive thinking/visualization to get what you want sounds a lot like the "name it and claim it" crowd. The only twist is, "picture it and claim it."
Of course, without vision, the people perish (Proberbs 29:18). Without dreams we would get nowhere and do nothing. But the positive thinking/visualization ideology is more of a "magic formula" to get what you want.
Sandy
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Hello Sandy
Yes...you say : But the positive thinking/visualization ideology is more of a "magic formula" to get what you want.
Yes again...to get what the flesh wants, what the eyes desire and what the pride of life craves!.....
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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My dear brothers and sisters, it saddens me to the heart for the lack of seemingly innocent faith towards the one who has created, holds and freely gives to all. :(
Luk 12:28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more [will he clothe] you, O ye of little faith?
Is this not something to be positive about, are we not to belive it, feel it, visualize it? For has not Christ himself stated!
Jhn 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
How can one not be positive knowing that the one whom holds us all close and dearly to his heart has promised to care for us like a mother cares for a child. :)
Who really, truly believes that when they ask our Father for something that our needs will be answered? Or who like us, would step out onto water just as Peter did and promptly sink?
Mat 14:29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
Mat 14:30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
And what was Christs words to Peter, whom stumbled just like we?
Mat 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth [his] hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
Faith, he said unto Peter "thou of little faith"
What is Faith? Well it is something more than Peter had, but not something we should ever dissmiss as something childish. :)
Mat 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Mat 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this [which is done] to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
Am I the only one who believes that Peter could have walked on water had his faith by God been strong enough? Do any believe that a mountain could resist the power of our Heavenly Father through ones faith? I certainly do not. These are positive statements for us, His children. :)
I hear and read of so much doom and gloom in many of these threads, of how it is only going to get worse, etc. WHY? :)
Has not our Father promised that he will take care of his flock?
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 ¶ But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 [Seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 3:14 ¶ Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
Who dares stand up and say that this is not worth visualizing, that this is not a positive thought to carry in ones heart always??
Peter knew to look forward to such things, should not we also.
I find it very dishearting that this thread only focused on the "World" the same World that many here profess to have been dragged out of. Really!! Why then the incessant focus on the world and what it is doing.
Brothers and Sisters, I do not wish to offend any here; however, I do wish this to be as a wake up call.
Am I foolish for believing as David:
Psa 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
What faith have I if I do not Believe this with all my heart, where is my faith if I do not visualize God at my side throughout any trials and tribulations that my life may encounter. For as David knew, so do I firmly believe:
Psa 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou [art] with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
If we keep the the two greatest commandments (according to Christ) who can imagine what God has in store for us? :)
Mar 12:30,31 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment. And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
I will close with this final Scripture that I firmly leaves no room for fear or negativity: :)
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
I love you all my dear brothers and sisters. :)
In Christ,
Darren
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There has been this strangeness lately.
Who can see it?
Who can hear it?
1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the thing's that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the
pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Iris
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Darren, I feel just as you do. I believe with my heart ,mind and soul the words spoken by Christ. If that is "positive visualization" then I guess I do it. When things are hard I do "visualize Jesus going with me through my hills and valleys. Jennie
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Darren, I feel just as you do. I believe with my heart ,mind and soul the words spoken by Christ. If that is "positive visualization" then I guess I do it. When things are hard I do "visualize Jesus going with me through my hills and valleys. Jennie
:) :) :) Thanks My Dear Sister Jennie,
If this is not what "Faith, Trust and Love" is all about then sadly I am very mistaken. NOT!!;)
How can there be room for negativity and gloom when we know, understand, believe and most importantly "feel" God with oneself and in oneself. :)
I am so glad that I am not the only one here who visualizes like this.
Much love to you my Sister, :}
Your Brother in Christ,
Darren
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My brother was born with a rare heart condition. He was only one of two to survive the condition in his time. I was young and at home when my parents went through it all with him at the hospital.
Fast forward to my daughter when she was six months old. She got e-coli and had a grand-mal seizure and stopped breathing when I was standing there. Her heart stopped and she was dying. She was code blue. Everyone rushed in and I left the room when I could no longer stand there and watch. I was only 18 years old.
My mother rushed to the hospital and took me to the little hospital chapel. She told me the story about my brother being so close to death. She said she didn't know what to pray and remembered the bible story about the woman touching Christ's garment and being healed. She told me to tug on Christ's robe. We both sat there tugging. I had so much grief and anxiety I couldn't speak, but I could tug. My daughter lived and I learned a lesson in faith that day.
Fast forward. My granddaughter was born with pneumonia. We had been up all night through labor. We were all exhausted. She survived one day and then the nurse and the doctor came in and told us there was no hope. She was not going to make it. I went down to the little heated outdoor room and once again was so tired and so distraught that I didn't have words. I remember sitting there telling God that I just didn't have words to pray. Then suddenly the thought came to me "tug on my robe". I felt instant joy. I knew that God was telling me that my granddaughter would be ok. I ran up to tell the kids that she was going to be ok and the nurse walked in and told us she didn't know why, but my granddaughter took a turn for the better and she was fighting again.
I can remember visualizing this and remember my hearts expression to God through this. I was making my request known even though I knew that God could make any decision he wanted to concerning their lives. God led me to pray in this manner when I could not speak or think words of prayer.
Sometimes when my little family are being tormented by trials I will often be led to proclaim who God is and praise him for who he is and stand in faith through the trials when my faith is being attacked.
Ephesians 3:19-21
19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
I think this is all very different from using our positive thoughts to create something different in our lives. This is the false teaching that we are the God of our lives and we have power through our thoughts to change our future or create our future. It's the same with the way they use visualization. To create our own future. To create our own faith. To think positive is to create a positive outcome. That God only wants good for us and we can receive all that good through praise, positive thoughts, visualization or even prayer. I know people who spend the end of the year cutting out pictures from magazines of everything they expect in the next year. They call them mantras. They do not believe that God is sovereign and that he causes all things in our lives.
2 Corinthians 10:4-6
4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
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Darren,
Awesome, awesome post. Thanks for bringing a <grins> positive outlook to this thread. This thread is getting to be very deep and hard to read. Your post is well needed, thanks for posting it.
I know that even though I am called out of the world, I still feel it tugging at me. This post is going to be a blessing in my life, thanks.
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
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M.G. wrote:
I think this is all very different from using our positive thoughts to create something different in our lives. This is the false teaching that we are the God of our lives and we have power through our thoughts to change our future or create our future. It's the same with the way they use visualization. To create our own future.
M.G. What an amazing post :) Your stories of true faith is very inspiring and should serve as an example to us all.
I highlighted the above text, because I want to say that you are right: "it is very different" but it is also remarkably similiar too. The unseen difference is "faith" or lack of it in the one who matters most.
I would never agree to the teaching that we are incontrol of our lives; for our life is not truly ours for we are in him, each and everyone of us, believer and nonbeliever alike. We have no free will. :)However, with prayer, "asking" (even with words unsaid) :) and uncompromised faith, God can change our circumstances in an instant and does often!!!
Your post is a testament to this and I could add several too as I am sure here could as well.
I never pray that "I don't want what you don't want, so please God, let your will be done!" :)
Where is the faith in a prayer like this. We have to "feel and visualize" the outcome we desire and then pray to God and tell him what we "need" him to do for us, finishing of course with, "if it is your will to do so". Of course I am not saying it always works, but then it has never not worked when I needed God the most.
Our prayers requesting help from God should never be half-hearted, for he reads the heart more than he here's the words.
That God is with you is clear to see M.G. :)
Your brother in Christ,
Darren
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MG
thank you for sharing your inspired "tug" that blessed you and your family. Truly a word of God to you that touched my heart too.
In reading your experience, my mind returned to the teaching PRAYING BY GODS RULES by Ray where it says
"If you always pray, "not as I will, but as Thou will," all of your prayers will be answered too. Whether you always get what you desire or you don't get what you desiere, if your greatest desire of all desires is for "THY WILL be done," then you can rest assured that from this day forward, all of your prayers will be answered always.
I have begun to do this and it is wonderful! I am beginning to feel great peace from this and it is just the beginning...........
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Hey M.G.,
Thank you for sharing a little of your testimony regarding situations affecting three generations of your family. Wow, that would be tough! (I freak out when my children cry hard and don't breathe for a few seconds and their lips star turning blue.)
It is interesting how things can repeat like that in families. I've noticed that as my children have grown that they have gone through some of the same trials, struggles, and weaknesses that I have. Both my mother and I have had full term stillborn babies.
All of us are tested by trials. I love the example of how God turned the situation around and gave you peace by visualizing tugging at his robe. It reminds me of the scripture:
Philippians 4:6 Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; 7 and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
I can see where visualizing the prayer would be especially needful when you are heartbroken and lost for words.
Praise God! He answered your families prayers for your precious children! Even when things look hopeless - He is our Hope!
Bless you! :)
~Paula
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Hello rj
I thoroughly enjoy seeing the Sovereignty of God shine through! You wrote : the only way Peter could have walked on water that day is if it had been God's plan nothing Peter could have done would have change that, just the way i see God's sovereignty
After reading this delightful truth, (the only way I can see because I am in God's plan! :D) the thought came to me (caused response )that Peters walk on water is what happened literally then and it is meant to teach us something spiritual not literal, now! If not then somewill all be testing their skill at trying to walk over the swimming pool surface....not in winter time when it is iced over either. :D....
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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RJ wrote:
You asked....Am I the only one who believes that Peter could have walked on water had his faith by God been strong enough? Do any believe that a mountain could resist the power of our Heavenly Father through ones faith? I certainly do not. These are positive statements for us, His children.
Maybe we are saying the same thing not sure, but the way i see it the only way Peter could have walked on water that day is if it had been God's plan nothing Peter could have done would have change that, just the way i see God's sovereignty[/color]
We are on the same Page RJ :)
I was very careful to say: "Peter could have walked on water had his faith by God been strong enough"
What you say is true, Peter could not have walked on the water had God not given him faith enough to do so.
However, there is a truth here that must not be overlooked. Peter did have faith enough (by God) to take a few steps. :)
Mat 14:29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
Thanks for your reply :)
All is of God
Darren
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rj
I have just now read this scripture and your testimony to the Sovereignty of God came back to mind. So I think this scripture will speak to you and is for you words of joy and peace and His love.
How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him who brings good tidings, who publishes peace, who brings good tidings of good, who publishes salvation, who says to Zion, Your God reigns! Is 52 : 7
.......for me all recollection of Gods Sovereingty is good news and good tidings! HE, our Sovereign God is coming again and we will meet HIM!
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Arcturus
Thanks for the kinds words. I always look forward to reading your post, they seem to be what the doctor ordered for the day..... :)
rj
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RJ,
I think she is a doctor! ;)
Dwight
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I love you both........
What I am is world weary..........and the balm of Christ through you both is healing for my soul
Peace to you
Arcturus :)