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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Musterseed on April 01, 2018, 11:16:55 AM
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Good morning folks
I came across this hip surgery e-mail message from Ray.
In it was this paragraph.
“I look forward to the day when the Christian Church begins an unrestrained
media campaign against us,than the chosen of God will become strong in the faith
as never before.”
Unrestrained,,, that sounds pretty intense
Ray is not here ,so is this after resurrection, By us does he mean the chosen?🤔
And will I see the Elect on CNN anytime soon? Just kidding.😜
Can someone help me understand please? Thankyou Pamela
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Hi Pamela,
I think it is reasonable to believe that the "US" is those called out of the "Christian church" some of whom are supporters of Ray Smith.
We are the ones having an unrestrained media campaign against us because they (the false church) and the media feel threatened.
How we are personally affected depends upon how we respond in our locality.
Do we need to confront members of churches about their false teachings?
Or do we simply need to give an answer for the faith that we have been given?
Each person must decide.
Indiana bob
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Post the link if you don’t mind.
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Hi Ibob
Thank you for your explanation. I don’t totally understand it all , but will meditate on it and search
a little more.
I appreciate your help. In Christ , Pamela
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Hi Largeli
I found that statement from Ray in my written notes from months ago and wouldn’t mind posting a link if I knew how,
Unfortunately I don’t know my way around the Internet like most. I feel blessed just to be able
to be on this forum. All I know is it is in an email from Ray when he was having his hip surgery
and I jotted it down. Maybe someone else remembers it.
Have a good day Largeli. In Christ , Pamela.
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I won't speculate here, so Im including the link to the message from Ray, in case someone understands enough to answer Pamela.
https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,13952.msg122976.html#msg122976
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Hi
I don't believe an unrestrained media campaign against those who believe as Ray has begun. When it does the 'heat will turn up' and the gold will be purified! Then and there we will be stronger in our faith.
Askseeknock
Charles O
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Thank you very much Wanda. 🌹🌺🌻🌷🌸🌱❤️
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We must keep our perspective as to where we are in God's plan.
We are in the Pentecost age of God's plan. The Feast of First Fruits. God is saving only a very, very small few of his special Elect and anointed ones at this time.
The Many have no understanding of the Truths discussed here. They do not have the Spirit of God.
The Many will not be saved until after the return of the Great King.
The primary purpose of this website is a place where God can bring His Elect for teaching them certain fundamental Truths needed for their salvation. God then works individually with each of His Elect to form them into His Jewels.
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Mat_24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
I have wondered about this. There are not enough of 'us' to justify this verse IMO.
But I hear about Christians in general being killed more and more.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/04/killed-attack-christians-pakistan-quetta-180402161157315.html (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/04/killed-attack-christians-pakistan-quetta-180402161157315.html)
I just don't see a tiny part of the world population being hunted down but the 'called' being left alone.
But I could be wrong.
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My thoughts exactly Dennis. Some of us tend to overlook the terrible persecution, attacks and murder of Christians in other parts of the world.
When there is an attack on all of Christiondom, we'll be lumped into the mix.
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Dennis,
We must remember Jesus's words are Spirit. I experience Jesus's words every day since He led me into the wilderness to the place of safety where He is protecting me for a time, times, and half a time. I am a stranger and sojourner on the earth. All who Jesus leads will suffer persecution from friend and foe alike as He was.
Those who are known as Christians are not of us. They are led by Satan as are the Many. Only a very select few are free from being deceived.
Only Jesus protects His Elect from the influence of this great, false church.
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Notice it says "for my name's sake"
Christians in general are the 'Called' and acknowledge Christ. Even if they do not understand what we understand.
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I agree Dennis. In most of the Middle East and Muslim countries, if you come in the name of Jesus Christ, you are asking to be killed.
And they have been called.
But remember the parable of the wheat and tares. An enemy (Satan) came and planted the tares among the good seed. The tares are from their father Satan. Only at the harvest will the good seed be gathered into the barn and the tares burned. Every parable speaks of the Many and the Elect Few.
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Notice it says "for my name's sake"
Christians in general are the 'Called' and acknowledge Christ. Even if they do not understand what we understand.
It seems to me that we tend to overlook to whom certain scriptures are addressed. Isn't it possible that Jews of Jesus time on earth, having had centuries of practical understanding of persecution would have understood much more easily than we today the things that Jesus mentioned only briefly?
One ancient author wrote the following to help guide the study of scripture:
Indiana bob
HOW TO READ THE BIBLE
It shall greatly helpe ye to understande Scripture,
If thou mark
Not only what is spoken or wrytten,
But of whom,
And to whom,
With what words,
At what time
Where,
To what intent,
With what circumstances,
Considering what goeth before
And what followeth.
JOHN WYCLIFFE*
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However, if one of the Christian sects gains power, it could be us.
Christianity - 2.42 billion
Catholic Church - 1.285 billion.
Protestantism - 920 million.
Eastern Orthodox Church - 270 million.
Oriental Orthodoxy – 86 million.
Restorationism and Nontrinitarianism - 35 million.
Independent Catholicism - 18 million.
Minor branches - 1 million.
But why would 1.8 billion Muslims, 1.35 billion Chinese, etc. care what Christian sect any one person belongs to? The type of Christian means almost nothing to them.
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Thanks for the stats Dennis.
However, if one of the Christian sects gains power, it could be us.
How would that fit into God's plan for the fall and destruction of Babylon The Great I wonder.
Revelation 18
Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore.
22 The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. No craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore, and the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore
23 The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.”
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I really don't know. But this was posted this morning: https://youtu.be/VLXGktZU5as (https://youtu.be/VLXGktZU5as)
It seems religion is becoming more of a topic in the news.
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“It's just amazing how in today's world, a site such as ours can become the center of attention almost overnight.
All it takes is that right message that is followed up on by a few million u-tube viewers who get the proverbial snowball rolling down the hill getting larger and larger with every revolution. Maybe it will come about through our debunking of the Christian Hell doctrine, or the tithing doctrine, or maybe just the way I might comment on some national event of international interest. I look forward to that day. When the Christian Church begins an unrestrained media campaign against us, then the "chosen of God" will become strong in the faith as never before.”
I don’t want to speculate as to what made Ray try his hand at ‘future telling’ in saying something so specific as, ‘when the Christian Church begins an unrestrained media campaign against us’... as if he knew specifics about future events. Hmm.
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I really don't know. But this was posted this morning: https://youtu.be/VLXGktZU5as (https://youtu.be/VLXGktZU5as)
It seems religion is becoming more of a topic in the news.
Curious to see how that plays out.
I was thinking how birth rates might influence these numbers you posted, and found this.
n an analysis released Wednesday, Pew estimates that in the five-year period between 2030 and 2035, the Muslim birth rate will overtake the birth rate among Christians, with 225 million babies born to Muslim families in those years, compared to 224 million among Christians.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_58e6c7fee4b0cdad578e6071/amp
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Largeli,
It might have had something to do with his unimaginable pain level, as well as the pain meds. I've seen first hand how that can influence a persons thinking.
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Pamela shared this.
News week
More Christion persecution and genoside than any time in history.
http://www.newsweek.com/christian-persecution-genocide-worse-ever-770462
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Satan rules over the Christian Church.
Jesus said Satan was a murderer from the beginning.
Why is it odd that Christians are murdered? Satan loves killing his own. Satan loves killing and destruction. He loves the wars and killing among all the different divisions of his followers around the world.
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Satan rules over the Christian Church.
Jesus said Satan was a murderer from the beginning.
Why is it odd that Christians are murdered? Satan loves killing his own. Satan loves killing and destruction. He loves the wars and killing among all the different divisions of his followers around the world.
And God saw EVERY THING that He had made [including Satan, the Adversary], and, behold, it was VERY GOOD..." (Gen. 1:31).
I see nothing odd John. God created Satan for this purpose, and he is doing just as the Father has willed.
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Let's not ever forget that every human's works are judged, whether they be good works (to be refined) or bad works (to be burned). There is NO BAD NEWS in the end. It's all according to God's order and timing, but in the end, God will be all in all.
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1 Corth.15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
All means All
Amen to that brothers and sisters
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Hi Wanda,
Just as we on the forum are tempted to share our faith with family and friends who don't understand and are not interested in changing.
The "christian folks" in Eastern nations are hated by the Hindu or Muslim religious who become irritated and fearful of disturbance in their familiar cultures when Christians proselytize among their young adults and children and turn their children against them.
People don't like changes that they do not understand and they resent traitors to their culture that has been in place for their whole lives.
In a similar manner we in small town America don't appreciate it when Muslims try to get Sharia law established in our Judaeo/Christian cities.
WE like and are comfortable with the culture we are accustomed to.
So for whatever reason in their hearts or in the reasoning of their leadership Christians are courting trouble when they "push" their religion upon others who don't want to hear it. Especially when they work together to make successful lives while others are poor and suffering.
When Jesus commanded the apostles to go out and preach the good news in foreign nations where Jewish believers lived, weren't they preaching mainly to Jews who already knew the scriptures? Perhaps we should limit our preaching to folks who are interested and move on if they show no interest. Dan 2:21, Romans 13:1-4
I have read that when Iraq was controlled by Saddam Hussein there was no trouble with Coptic Christians because he prevented it as long as they didn't criticize his government. He was busy fighting Iran's government.
So my question is, are we required by scripture to proselytize aggressively in order to please God?
Are we required to criticize the government when God allows and upholds the powers that exist?
The organized church denominations seem to want growth and popularity and encourage their members to bring in new members.
Don't you just love it when strangers knock on your door to invite you to "know Jesus" and make a donation?
On the other hand perhaps God desires to show the world how cruel they are and uses their cruel acts to make His point.
Let's hear from the moderators,
Indiana bob
Pamela shared this.
News week
More Christion persecution and genoside than any time in history.
http://www.newsweek.com/christian-persecution-genocide-worse-ever-770462
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I agree Dennis. In most of the Middle East and Muslim countries, if you come in the name of Jesus Christ, you are asking to be killed.
And they have been called.
But remember the parable of the wheat and tares. An enemy (Satan) came and planted the tares among the good seed. The tares are from their father Satan. Only at the harvest will the good seed be gathered into the barn and the tares burned. Every parable speaks of the Many and the Elect Few.
This just came to mind John:
Php 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
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Let's not ever forget that every human's works are judged, whether they be good works (to be refined) or bad works (to be burned). There is NO BAD NEWS in the end. It's all according to God's order and timing, but in the end, God will be all in all.
Thanks for reminding us Dave.
Such perfection of love and joy, can only be imagined now, but it is a wonderous truth he has given us to understand, and the reason I now feel, being a spiritual being, is a more natural state of existence than this fleshly one.
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Hi Wanda,
Just as we on the forum are tempted to share our faith with family and friends who don't understand and are not interested in changing.
The "christian folks" in Eastern nations are hated by the Hindu or Muslim religious who become irritated and fearful of disturbance in their familiar cultures when Christians proselytize among their young adults and children and turn their children against them.
People don't like changes that they do not understand and they resent traitors to their culture that has been in place for their whole lives.
In a similar manner we in small town America don't appreciate it when Muslims try to get Sharia law established in our Judaeo/Christian cities.
WE like and are comfortable with the culture we are accustomed to.
So for whatever reason in their hearts or in the reasoning of their leadership Christians are courting trouble when they "push" their religion upon others who don't want to hear it. Especially when they work together to make successful lives while others are poor and suffering.
When Jesus commanded the apostles to go out and preach the good news in foreign nations where Jewish believers lived, weren't they preaching mainly to Jews who already knew the scriptures? Perhaps we should limit our preaching to folks who are interested and move on if they show no interest. Dan 2:21, Romans 13:1-4
I have read that when Iraq was controlled by Saddam Hussein there was no trouble with Coptic Christians because he prevented it as long as they didn't criticize his government. He was busy fighting Iran's government.
So my question is, are we required by scripture to proselytize aggressively in order to please God?
Are we required to criticize the government when God allows and upholds the powers that exist?
The organized church denominations seem to want growth and popularity and encourage their members to bring in new members.
Don't you just love it when strangers knock on your door to invite you to "know Jesus" and make a donation?
On the other hand perhaps God desires to show the world how cruel they are and uses their cruel acts to make His point.
Let's hear from the moderators,
Indiana bob
Pamela shared this.
News week
More Christion persecution and genoside than any time in history.
http://www.newsweek.com/christian-persecution-genocide-worse-ever-770462
Hi Bob,
I believe we should be aware and stay watchful, but certainly not be concerned with doing Jesus's job, which is saving others.
Ray wrote an excellent paper on this very thing.
https://bible-truths.com/souls.htm
Everything that's happening in this world, having to do with religeons, is under the direct will of the Father, and the specifics behind the persecution of others, is of little importace, in the the grand things awaiting us. It's important that we hold fast to the faith and do our best to push the disconcerting, disturbing, negative realities out of the way, placing our hope in the higher purpose.
All of this insanity around us is about one thing.
JESUS, and his purpose in EVERYTHING for our ultimate salvation and reconciliation to the FATHER. Just as Jesus and the Father are ONE, we all will be one, for he will be ALL in ALL.
May God bless us all with the faith to endure.
1 Peter 1:3-6
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In all this you greatly rejoice,though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials.
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I agree Dennis. In most of the Middle East and Muslim countries, if you come in the name of Jesus Christ, you are asking to be killed.
And they have been called.
But remember the parable of the wheat and tares. An enemy (Satan) came and planted the tares among the good seed. The tares are from their father Satan. Only at the harvest will the good seed be gathered into the barn and the tares burned. Every parable speaks of the Many and the Elect Few.
This just came to mind John:
Php 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
That's O.K. two thousand years ago getting things started. He might think differently of a modern bible thumper preaching hellfire and brimstone and that sinners will be tortured eternally.
We must also remember that the Apostles had to grow in grace and knowledge over time, like us, and that they had different thoughts as time went on. For example, Paul followed water baptism early on and stopped such foolishness later on.
The Church kicked Paul out at the end. The Church kicked John out. And I have Scripture that indicates Peter too.
I am not a Christian. I do not attend their churches. I do not listen to their priests and ministers. The churches follow Satan as an angel of light. None of that for me.
Jesus freed me several years ago. Not going back.
I admonish those who have ears to hear, listen to what Jesus says, "Come out of her My people."
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Hi Bob,
I've been giving some thought to what you said, and I can't help but feel I might have cut you off at the knees, so to speak. I'm really sorry for that.
My own experience as a JW and being required to knock on doors to save people from Gods wrath at Armageddon, was filled with persecution, but because I believed I was doing the will of the Father the persecution came with the territory, for his name sake you know.
How can anyone of us judge these ones, when they are doing God's will? I did it until he opened my eyes to see his truths. Now at least I won't be murdered for doing what he willed for me at that time. Now the only persecution I encounter, is through ridicule for believing there is a God, not for the one I worship, but then I don't witness to others anymore.
Those of us fortunate enough to live in areas where we all have religious freedom, are sheltered from the realities of suffering, and fear, that many go through daily, as a result of their association to Jesus. I consider that a blessing for myself, and most of us on this forum. I am sad for their suffering, and look forward to the day all suffering is, NO MORE.
Will we ever experience the kind of harsh physical suffering others are? I don't know, but I will just continue to be thankful for the peace I experience now, and hold on to the hope of our deliverance from this evil existence.
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Dear friend Wanda,
As a general condition of communication with others I support and approve candor.
I would much rather that a person state honest feelings than to hide their true feelings out of fear of hurting my feelings.
I often say provocative things to stimulate a response, not in anger or out of a desire to hurt, but rather to
stimulate a sincere response on a topic that has been carefully avoided.
So, if you are concerned about your words being offensive just say at the beginning, "this may hurt a little" and I'll know to
expect to be provoked to think seriously about the topic you are addressing.
Without candor we are just blowing smoke and accomplishing very little.
Keeping in mind of course that hundreds of "new" people are reading what we say on the public forum and may still have tender feelings themselves.
We should always follow the admonition to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves and correct one another in love.
Kindly offered, Indiana bob
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Wise advice Bob, thank you☺
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I believe that Islam will be used as the club in God's hand to bring about the fall of Babylon the Great, the Mother of harlots.(Christendom)
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I believe that Islam will be used as the club in God's hand to bring about the fall of Babylon the Great, the Mother of harlots.(Christendom)
If that is possibly true, where do we include the civil powers that are combined with the religious powers?
Won't the armies of other Western and far Eastern nations take part in the fall of Babylon?
Indiana Bob