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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: hillsbororiver on November 08, 2008, 01:41:18 PM
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I have found that when my patience begins to fail (usually due to focusing on self, even subconsciously) that it begins a spiritual (sometimes physical as well) downward spiral where I get progressively more miserable, stubborn and dissatisfied with everything.
Before I started on what I believe to be a spiritual journey, well at least since I have become aware that this life is a spiritual journey experienced in the flesh, I was not one to be mired in anxiety over much of anything, my attitude often could be summed up in two words;
"Screw it."
Sometimes exclaimed more profanely...... Then I would move on and forget about it, at least until I was forced to deal with the situation (or ramifications) at some future point in time, now that "luxury" has been taken away, when selfish or impatient thoughts (even only thoughts) begin to occupy my mind and I do not immediately beg for His Spirit to strengthen me a lot of old temptations also begin to spring back to life, guilt and confusion reign, it is a horrible place to be.
I was reading James Chapter 3 when a few verses popped up and grabbed my attention, it seemed that James was speaking of this very thing.
James 3
13Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. (Every evil work!)
17But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
Which brought this to mind;
Luk 11:24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
Luk 11:25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
Luk 11:26 Then goeth he and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
Ever notice this in your own walk?
Peace,
Joe
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Joe,
Why are you accusing me of such evil behavior; :o . You are so right and those scriptures are like sharp
daggers that reach the heart of our beastly nature. Every day i learn more about how little i know or do
that is right, (unless It come from God).
I am on the road right now but must come in to get my charge for the day. Thank you for those Scriptures; they are Life and Spirit and True.
Love and Peace Brother,
george. ;D
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This life of the called-out can be crazy-making
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am mere flesh, sold as a slave to sin.15 I don't understand what I am doing. For I don't do what I want to do, but instead do what I hate.
16 Now if I do what I don't want to do, I agree that the law is good.
17 As it is, I am no longer the one who is doing it, but it is the sin that lives in me. 18 For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I don't do the good I want to do, but instead do the evil that I don't want to do.
20 But if I do what I don't want to do, I am no longer the one who is doing it, but it is the sin that lives in me. 21 So I find this to be a law: when I want to do what is good, evil is right there with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God in my inner being, 23 but I see in my body a different law waging war with the law in my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin that exists in my body. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?
25 Thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with my mind I myself serve the law of God, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
It seems no matter what we desire, we first have to be shown it is not in us. To think we can walk in the Spirit in the flesh is preposterous, and is the root of all religion, now matter what form it takes. No matter WHAT form it takes.
Forget about asking Alice. Both pills make us larger, and there is no pill that makes us small.
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Thanks Joe, you have put a nice morcel on the board...the more Christ works in you the faster the recognition in these little things...like developing patience
It is like a 3 yr old wanting to help you make a cake, you have to let her make a mess and be willing to clean it up. You have to love both of these the mess and the cleaning . That part that is screaming inside is the selfish beast...the yelling or ranting that you do only discourages the little cake maker.
On the physical side it raises your blood pressure, causes your adrenal glands to put out stree hormones and this starts a cascade of things to happen to your immune system and your heart.
I mentioned it before, but the things that we write here are as much for ourselves as they are for others...
(Rom 5:3) And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;(Rom 5:4) And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
(Rom 5:5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Patience serves as a protection against wrongs as clothes do against cold. For if you put on more clothes as the cold increases, it will have no power to hurt you. So in like manner you must grow in patience when you meet with great wrongs, and they will then be powerless to vex your mind.
Leonardo da Vinci
beloved
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Joe.
Excellent topic, I see myself in a constant state of sin as a result of matching myself with the fruits of the spirit.
Some day’s I’m very patient and other day’s I’m not. Sometimes I see such wonderful qualities of God in me but as soon as I see this, it’s taken away.
I often wonder if this is God keeping me humble or am I self deceived. I even see certain sins that’s been apart of my entire life that are so difficult to let go of and wonder again do these things just take time to overcome? Or does God leave these things in my life to keep me humble?
Have you ever heard the old saying once you think your humble you no longer are? I see this operating in my life, once I see myself as forgiving or loving or giving I find myself being knocked down and back at the drawing board again…….LOL
God knows how to keep me humble.
Hope this helps Joe. In God’s Love. Richard.
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I have found that when my patience begins to fail (usually due to focusing on self, even subconsciously) that it begins a spiritual (sometimes physical as well) downward spiral where I get progressively more miserable, stubborn and dissatisfied with everything.
Before I started on what I believe to be a spiritual journey, well at least since I have become aware that this life is a spiritual journey experienced in the flesh, I was not one to be mired in anxiety over much of anything, my attitude often could be summed up in two words;
"Screw it."
Sometimes exclaimed more profanely...... Then I would move on and forget about it, at least until I was forced to deal with the situation (or ramifications) at some future point in time, now that "luxury" has been taken away, when selfish or impatient thoughts (even only thoughts) begin to occupy my mind and I do not immediately beg for His Spirit to strengthen me a lot of old temptations also begin to spring back to life, guilt and confusion reign, it is a horrible place to be.
I was reading James Chapter 3 when a few verses popped up and grabbed my attention, it seemed that James was speaking of this very thing.
James 3
13Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. (Every evil work!)
17But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
Which brought this to mind;
Luk 11:24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
Luk 11:25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
Luk 11:26 Then goeth he and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
Ever notice this in your own walk?
Peace,
Joe
To Joe and all that responded,
All I have to say is a very big Thank You! You have given me light on a subject that has been on my mind resently. I have said in the past and now "screw it", until I needed to do something about it. I found this post and read it twice it really spoke to me. I only wish I had some more wisdom to had.
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Hello, Right before I found Ray's Website, I had fallen into a sin , that I was not able to forgive someone who hurt me. I now know that God enabled me to stop that sin and also, forgive not only that person, but also see my need to forgive everyone. Right after I found Ray's website I had so many things thrown at me and things I did overcome. I belive he wanted me to mature in my sinful life because he wanted me to take his truth seriously. But, you know this was just the begining. We battle this till we die. Of, this I am sure. After, he showed me his truths he showed me sins in me that I never knew I had.
Well, I was definitely not worshiping him in spirit and truth. I believed in Hell and he took me there. I wanted to die because I thought the sin I had was so bad.
It sure did teach me not to judge people. But, I always did think that the Holy Spirit had to dwell in me in order for me to over come. Right, before I had victory over that sin a Bible verse came to mind. Can't think right now where it isis. But, it came to my mind that he provides a way out of every temptation. Now, I am more conscious of that. But, that mind is truely a battlefield.
I believe that since we all obviously seem to me in the race, that we are seeing the fleshly sins, faster now. I could be wrong, but I really think What Paul was saying is true. We have a battle that rages inside of us , because we now want to do what is right. That old self loves to take its seat. Looks like we all are in the same boat so to speak. LOL But, I also know he put the desire for us to want to run that race. I know he put the desire in me not to want to sin even though we don't go to Hell. Now, I really Love him and I dont want that life of sin. But, its not easy, I do however believe he is able to bring us all to the finish.Glad I have Brothers and Sisters like you in the faith.
In His Love,
Marlene
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I just had a conversation with a friend about another topic but now I am seeing how it relates to other things. Ray teaches the scriptures are parables and they are.
Well when Paul writes the following lines
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord
Col 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
Many women cringe and can get very uncomfortable with this verse. The problem is that many do not understand that submission and patience are kissing cousins
It does not matter if the husband is a believer, a babylonean or part of the ungodly. Submission is not about the husband, it is about you...
it does not mean you have to agree with him, and it absolutly does not mean you have be abused by him...
The end of the sentance of the above two scriptures give the clue....you are to be confident that God is in control and that you will follow him and He will bring you to the point where he wants you to be. Your submission means that you live patiently and endure the things that God has planned.
You can see that when a women does this she possess a major strength. You have to draw closer to God to be able to do this.
Now I do not want people to vear off the topic of Patience and start jabbering about submission. I used this to point to the topic.
II Thessalonians 3:5 Now may the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God and into the patience of Christ.
Perhap that is why God inspired the apostle Paul to put so much emphasis on the essential virtue of patience. Patience is such an unnatural way for us to think. It is so against human nature—but it is so much a part of the way God is.
The demonstration of patience in a frustrating situation is one of the best indications that our character is being developed through the use of the Holy Spirit. It is part of the transformation, the conversion of becoming more like God
beloved
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Thanks for this thread, it certainly helps me. :)
When I think I can't take another minute.
Psalm 46:10 has been brought to my attention for the past few years.
Keeping that verse in mind always helps me.
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Jackie, That is a good verse. Being still is hard. I would say that could be linked with patience. Its hard to shut our mouth. That is the same thing. Just enduring trials and chastening.
In His Love,
Marlene
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Thanks Joe and everyone else!
What really makes us angry and bothers us about other people is what God wants to change in us!
Sometimes a person will post on here a question or an idea and other people jump on it and everything gets so complicated! I look at that and say (to myself) what is the deal here ??? I never join in those discussions because I imagine that God is telling me, "this bothers you because you are a person who likes to add your 2 cents worth." (Like God would know THAT about me!) ::) I look at me and think, "God am I really like that?" A pastor I know once said, "what boils up in us is what God wants to skim off!" Ewww! That is just so ugly! It reminds me of the nasty looking stuff that rises up to the surface when you boil a big piece of meat it's not very appetizing! :P God must really love me He just keep skimming stuff off! :D
Listening not very quietly!
Kathy ;)
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You bring forward an interesting angle to patience Beloved. Submission is not without power and wisdom.
This reminds me of this scripture :
Luke 20 : 18 Everyone falling on that stone (kicking and falling against the goads perhaps?) will be BROKEN (broken like a wild horse is broken and made obedient perhaps?) but on whomever it FALLS ( like out of the blue it falls without expectation on those who are self assured) it will grind him to POWDER (like wow, there is nothing left of the fabled self reliance dishonourable vessel)
Better to be broken and not pulverised! Yet this work of patience is a process that assures that once we have been broken we shall lack nothing and we shall be perfect.
James 1 : 4 But let patience have its perfect work that you may be (broken ) perfect and complete, lacking nothing.
It is wise to be broken and wisdom is required to let patience have its perfect work in us.
This scripture comes to mind for me to also reflect on :
Heb 12 : 11 All discipline for the present indeed does not seem to be joyous, but grievous; but afterward it gives back peaceable fruit of righteousness to the ones having been EXERCISED by it. Like Ray is experiencing that peaceable fruit evidenced in his latest communication to us. Ref quote from Ray : I have had not one anxious day about my condition after those three initial days of emotional turmoil when first presented with the raw facts concerning my dire prognostication at the cancer center back in July.
May God continue to bless Ray in his wonderful example to us, and give him the great spiritual strength to endure and to each one of us the same as we are exercised through our own personal struggles with pain and suffering.
Arc
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This is such a wonderful thread. I'm absorbing so much from everyone who's contributed. Thanks to all for sharing.
Love in Christ,
Vangie
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Along with James 3 and Luke 11
I think of 2 Peter 2:20:
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
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Joe,
I find this Scripture again jumps out at me; i have learned that in part, wisdom is the ability to glean
knowledge from that which someone says even if they do not say it well enough.
george.
Job 11:6:
And that he would show you the secrets of wisdom, that they are double to that which is! Know therefore
that God exacts of you less than yours iniquity deserves.
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I Hope This Will Encourage Everybody:
Philippians 1:6:
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.
With Love Geoff
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Joe, Thanks for bringing up this thread on patience, something which I've struggled with, and you've made me think deeper a about it. Beloved, your tying in the vs about a wife submitting to her husband zeroed in on my problem. you see my husband has a very "difficult" personality and I have to pray constantly for patience. It doesn't seem to come naturally to me!
I've found that praying for patience has helped me control my tongue and my actions, and helped me to know that God loves my husband and he is exactly what God wants him to be right now. Knowing that is a tremendous help to being patient and loving to him even when I feel he doesn't deserve it! And I know God is patient and loving with me even though I don't deserve it.
But my question is this. Even though I can learn to control my words and actions I know that sin begins in our hearts. How does one control the inclination of one's heart? I pray for this because it seems we have some control over our words and actions, but when my husband says something unkind or impatient to me the inclinations of my heart is to answer unkindly. The inclination is there even before the thought is formed. It seems I have no control over this. This is the very heart of the beast in me. I am a complete slave to my carnal nature! It seems impossible to slay the beast when he is there before I am even aware he is there. Yes I control the words and the actions, even stop the thought of answering unkindly and impatiently but I cannot control the inclination.
WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. We will not be perfect until all the inclinations of our hearts are love. It seems it will take a lifetime and beyond. But perhaps part of the process is being made aware of our failings which makes us hate the sin.
God's judgments make us look at ourselves in all our ugliness (hence the beast), and realize we cannot be beautiful (like a beautiful bride) unless He changes and prepares us. It's difficult to look in the mirror and see ourselves, when we want to look in the mirror and see Christ.
Thank God He sees us as we will be.
An often ugly sister,
Cindy ;)
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Geoff that verse you gave is wonderful. I often have to remind that one to myself.
Cindy, I can agree with you, that beast is always there. I felt hurt today, when in reality no one was trying to hurt me. Self just loves to get in the way. Every day is a new day. Like the scripture Geoff gave us he can bring us to where we need. He has started the work and he will finish. I know, its all him because I have alot of flaws. Patience is the key. I am so glad he has that. Lots of times I can't stand the beast I see.
In His Love,
Marlene
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But my question is this. Even though I can learn to control my words and actions I know that sin begins in our hearts. How does one control the inclination of one's heart? I pray for this because it seems we have some control over our words and actions, but when my husband says something unkind or impatient to me the inclinations of my heart is to answer unkindly. The inclination is there even before the thought is formed. It seems I have no control over this. This is the very heart of the beast in me. I am a complete slave to my carnal nature! It seems impossible to slay the beast when he is there before I am even aware he is there. Yes I control the words and the actions, even stop the thought of answering unkindly and impatiently but I cannot control the inclination.
WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. We will not be perfect until all the inclinations of our hearts are love. It seems it will take a lifetime and beyond. But perhaps part of the process is being made aware of our failings which makes us hate the sin.
God's judgments make us look at ourselves in all our ugliness (hence the beast), and realize we cannot be beautiful (like a beautiful bride) unless He changes and prepares us. It's difficult to look in the mirror and see ourselves, when we want to look in the mirror and see Christ.
Hi Cindy,
I thoroughly enjoyed your comments. In answer to your question, How does one control the inclination of one's heart?, I know, you know, we can't. Only through Jesus Christ can that beast be changed and defeated. This scripture comes to mind whenever I'm thinking on this subject:
Romans 7:24-25 - "A wretched man am I! What will rescue me out of this body of death? Grace! I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord." (Concordant Literal NT)
René
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Am liking where this one is going...
John 6
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked no more with Him. [I dont know about you, but John triple 6 shows me the beast within]
67 Then Jesus said unto the twelve, "Will ye also go away?"
68 Then Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life,
69 and we believe and are sure that Thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God."
Matthew 10
33 But whosoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny before My Father who is in Heaven.
Mark 14:72
And the second time the cock crowed. And Peter called to mind the words that Jesus had said unto him: "Before the cock crows twice, thou shalt deny Me thrice." And when he thought thereon, he wept.
Luke 9:23
And He said to them all, If any man will come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily, and follow Me
Clearly Peter did follow Christ. But to follow Him is not enough unless we first deny ourselves. I wont try to pretend to fully comprehend what denying ourselves mean but I see pylady denying herself in her post. If we do believe in no free will then we must believe genuinely that all is not of our doing but GOD's.
I Hope This Will Encourage Everybody:
Philippians 1:6:
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.
With Love Geoff
Geoff, I'm truly encouraged. Thanks for the reminder.
One thing I learned from Ray and will always keep (GOD-willing) is that it is not about me but all about HIM/Him.
All Glory to GOD
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Hi Everyone,
I must say I am really overwhelmed at all the edifying responses as well as another indication or should I say another example of our "like mindedness" expressed in this thread, not that the details of our struggle perfectly match but that the experience of attaining godly patience involves much tribulation (Acts 14:22) for sure.
To eventually obtain this perfected patience is something believers constantly strive for, it will be one of the privileges of being a citizen of His Kingdom. Imagine when the day arrives that we gain our full inheritance and we are truly able to understand why God deemed it necessary for this to be such a constant struggle.
Meditating on this matter, which has really weighed heavily on me lately brings me back to what Ray brought up at the Nashville (2008) Conference about God the Father actually learning patience. We all know that Christ learned obedience/patience (Heb 5:8), but before then I had not considered that even though our Lord is the image of His and our Father that perhaps the Father also experienced a certain anxiety as He formulated the entire creation process, knowing in advance all (pain, suffering, tribulation) that it would take to bring about His Family, a perfect sinless Family.
The following is from;
Where Did God Get Knowledge ? Nashville Conference 2008
Does God Learn?
I’ve ask these questions all my life. I didn’t have an answer for them. But I ask the questions. Does God learn? I know He knows everything. But does He know everything because He learned it all?
Well I though, there’s a lot of stuff I’m not going to know. But then I also believed that there is so much more in the Bible than we have ever seen. I mean it’s in there. There is so much in there, you just have to pay attention to the words.
You know I look at Scripture and I read them over 30... 50... 180 times and then sometimes something jumps out at me. I’m relentless, I’m like a bulldog and I beg God. I say, ’God I don’t know this, show me. Show me. I know it’s in there, show me.’
Anyway, is there any indication in the Bible that God, before the creation, before there was a universe or even a Jesus Christ, is there any indication that God either learned something or accomplished something that didn’t exist with Him, prior to that? Some might say, ‘Ray I think you are on dangerous ground. I think you are talking heresy and this verges on sacrilegion.’
I ask the question that I had a debate with Jeff Priddy, I friend of mine, has some screwy ideas, but he’s a nice guy. I was talking about emotions and he said, ‘Ray God does not have emotions.’ I said, well what is love and how come God is love, if God does not have emotion. He said, ‘No, that’s just for human terms and He is so way above and beyond that and everything else.’
But then over time I got to thinking about that and I said, wait a minute in Galatians 5 we are given a list of the fruits of God Spirit. One of them in the King James is longsuffering. Okay longsuffering, what does that mean? Patience. What is that made up of? Is it made up as an archaic English term?
Longsuffering - to suffer long. One of the fruits of God Spirit is to suffer long. How can it be a fruit of God’s Spirit if He doesn’t even possess it Himself?
I told somebody that I was going to ask a question at this conference; Did God ever do an honest days work in His life? I mean a really hard day’s work. Did He? Well you would say, ‘well He created the universe, that was a little work.’ No, all these Christians theologies say He just spoke it, let there be stars… let there be suns and moons… let there be an earth… let there this and that… just let there be, let it be, let it be and there you are. Wow I’m tried I think I’ll rest a day.
Did God ever do an honest hard days work in His life? You say, ‘Ray it doesn’t apply, you can’t apply what we do to what He does.’ How can you say it doesn’t apply? Jesus Christ worked and He suffered, He had long suffering and He had patience and He was the very image of His Father! The expressed stamped image of His Father! And we are to be in the image of Jesus Christ (Rom. 08). In the very image of God and the very image of Jesus Christ, our elder brother.
So how could Jesus have all this love and all this patience and all this mercy and He said everything He got came from His Father. Every thought He thought, every word He spoke, every deed He done came from His Father. How can you say the Father doesn’t have patience?
Patience is doing without something you want, but you can’t have it now. You have to exercise patience. You might even have to have longsuffering, you might have to suffer long. That is a fruit of God’s Spirit.
I could never believe in my heart of hearts that God would expect of us, things that He would not move His little finger to do Himself.
Jesus Christ berated the Pharisees. He said you load these heavy heavy burdens on people, very difficult for them to do what you tell them they need to do to be holy and righteous and good. And you would not move them with one of your fingers.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Is He accusing the Pharisees of something His own Father is guilty of? Are you following me? Is Jesus Christ condemning and berating the Pharisees for something His own Father is guilty of… that He lays heavy burdens on us and He wouldn’t lift them with one of His fingers, but we have to? We have to suffer through sixty or eighty years of sometimes horrible misery and disease and heartache and everything. What does God know about that? Nothing? I don’t think so. I don’t buy that nonsense anymore. I think that God has gone through a lot for us.
Read it all here; http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8385.0.html
You know it gives this experience a whole new dimension when we consider that the Source of all life and all creation went through this suffering as well....
Peace,
Joe
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If I died tomorrow Nashville Conference 2007 and Nashville Conference 2008 would be the two times I grew closer to my heavenly Father and Jesus. I will never forget those two last days! :'(
Thanks for reminding me Joe
Antaiwan
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Hi Antaiwan,
I know exactly what you mean.
Peace,
Joe
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Hi Joe
My post was more aligned to what you started with in the beginning of this thread:
I have found that when my patience begins to fail (usually due to focusing on self, even subconsciously) that it begins a spiritual (sometimes physical as well) downward spiral where I get progressively more miserable, stubborn and dissatisfied with everything.
I hope I wasn't off beat. This is a great thread nonetheless. I think anything that takes away something from my me-ness and gives glory to GOD is essential. Still have to read the transcript on GOD's patience as that had me wondering for a long time before the conference. Thanks for posting it, wasn't aware it was up.
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Hi Kweli,
Yes we do tend to vear off in different directions in many threads. ;)
Clearly Peter did follow Christ. But to follow Him is not enough unless we first deny ourselves. I wont try to pretend to fully comprehend what denying ourselves mean but I see pylady denying herself in her post. If we do believe in no free will then we must believe genuinely that all is not of our doing but GOD's.
Your point is well taken, His ways are so far above our own that sometimes it is very, very difficult to understand and try to put into words. I do know that in my own journey once patience fails then the door is cracked open for all sorts of old temptations and and evil thoughts to flood my mind.
Thank God He inspires me to repent and grab hold of Him and like Jacob wrestling with the Angel (or was it Christ Himself) demanding a blessing.
It is not like before He revealed Himself to me and I could blow off anything I thought, said or did that I knew in my heart to be wrong, now the anxiety level is very high if I feel separated from Him. I know we are never really separated but when our communication is interrupted there is nothing I desire more than to have it reestablished, there is truly nothing of any value unless He is front and center in our lives.
Thanks for your response Brother!
So often I want to reply to each and every response but due to time contraints and sometimes the sheer volume of great posts I just cannot do it, for this I sincerely apologize.....
Peace,
Joe
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hi joe,
i also want to thank you for beginning this thread. i am being shown by our Father that just when i think i have learned patience something happens to cause me to loose my patience. as i have said many times, the more i learn, the more i have to learn. kind of like something i was told once: consider a circle with everything inside the circle being what i have learned, and the round line of the circle's boundary representing everything i have yet to learn. as what i learn causes the inside of the circle to grow, the outside boundary line of the circle also grows larger. thus, the more i learn the more i have to learn.
i also can relate completely joe to your statement that now the anxiety level is very high if you feel seperated from Him. i know before God started showing me His marvelous truths, if i would do something that i knew to be sin i thought, well i can just ask Him to forgive me and all will be well with me, but now if i do anything which i don't want to do but do it anyway, my anxiety level raises to the point that i find myself so ashamed of myself and reminding myself how i am so totally unworthy of God's love. only through the spirit of Christ in me am i even able to forgive myself so that i can get peaceful enough to remember that God does indeed love me and i am never truly seperated from Him.
i also want to thank beloved for replying to your thread using the scripture references about wives submission to their husbands and how that submission is not possible without learning patience. thanks beloved, your words were truly spoken to me at the perfect time.
i thank God with all my heart and all my soul for my family on this forum.
claudia
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i thank God with all my heart and all my soul for my family on this forum.
I second that emotion, Claudia. Amen!
Vangie
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Hi Claudia & Vangie,
Thank you both for the kind words, I believe this is something many of us can relate to......
i also can relate completely joe to your statement that now the anxiety level is very high if you feel seperated from Him. i know before God started showing me His marvelous truths, if i would do something that i knew to be sin i thought, well i can just ask Him to forgive me and all will be well with me, but now if i do anything which i don't want to do but do it anyway, my anxiety level raises to the point that i find myself so ashamed of myself and reminding myself how i am so totally unworthy of God's love. only through the spirit of Christ in me am i even able to forgive myself so that i can get peaceful enough to remember that God does indeed love me and i am never truly seperated from Him.
So true, I appreciate the additional perspective, from all who contributed!
Peace,
Joe
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If I died tomorrow Nashville Conference 2007 and Nashville Conference 2008 would be the two times I grew closer to my heavenly Father and Jesus. I will never forget those two last days! :'(
Thanks for reminding me Joe
Antaiwan
Hi Antaiwan,
I know exactly what you mean.
Peace,
Joe
I still tear up thinking about those last two days.