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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: zander on July 26, 2006, 10:25:53 AM
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Hi folks
I felt i should let you know, in case anyone was wondering (yeah gosh i think i must be v.popular ;D ), that i am merely an observer on this site from time to time now and dont come here as often or place as much input. I am having some trouble at the moment regarding relationship with God etc. I understand it all, but feel very let down by him.
Well i wish you all welll
Z
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Zander, Thanks for letting us know. I was wondering about you and have been praying for you. We all go through these things from time to time I think. When and if you're up to it and He leads you back to posting more, we'd love to hear from you again.
Peace and love to you in Christ,
mongoose
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I know how you feel "Z", God is looking more and more like a failure and no more in control than any other of the man made gods. Kinda sad, but true. Oh well, there's always another God waiting to try his luck.
Longhorn
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Zander,
Thank you for checking in, you have been missed here. mongoose is right on as we all DO go through these periods from time to time, "who knows the mind of God?" All we can do is have faith in His purpose and methods. We are assured that "He chastises those whom He loves" and these trials and tribulations refine us and purify us, making us into His Sons & Daughters, soon it will all be more than worth it, this life is but a vapor.
His Peace to you Brother,
Joe
From Lake of Fire Part VI;
"Yea, and ALL that will live godly in Christ Jesus [as a new and different creature] SHALL SUFFER PERSECUTION." (II Tim. 3:12). This is not just a possibility; it is an absolute PROMISE.
"Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through MUCH TRIBULATION [pressure, afflictions] enter into the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22).
"For if we would JUDGE OURSELVES, we should not be judged. But when we ARE JUDGED, we are CHASTENED [Greek: paideuo, to train, educate, discipline, punish, chastise, instruct, learn, and teach] of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world [at the great white throne judgment]" (I Cor. 11:31-32).
"And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks unto you as unto children, My Son, despise not you the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of Him. For whom the Lord loves He CHASTENS [Prov. 13:24] AND SCOURGES [see I Pet. 5:9] EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES. But if you be without chastisement, whereof ALL are partakers, then are you ********, and not sons" (Heb. 12:5-8). "Every man’s work shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be REVEALED BY FIRE; and the fire shall try EVERY MAN’S WORK of what sort it is" (I Cor. 3;13).
"Fear NONE of those things which you shall suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that you may be tried; and you shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give you a CROWN OF LIFE" (Rev. 2:10). "To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the TREE OF LIFE [eternal, immortal life]" (Rev. 2:7), "He that overcomes shall not be hurt of the second death" (Rev. 2:11), "And he that overcomes, and keeps my works unto the end, to him will I give POWER OVER THE NATIONS" (Rev. 2;26), "He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment [righteousness] and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life [Christ is the book of life] but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels" (Rev. 3:5), "Him that overcomes will I make a PILLAR [a main and vital support in the very government of Almighty God] IN THE TEMPLE OF MY GOD…" (Rev. 3:12), "To him that overcomes will I grant to SIT WITH ME IN MY THRONE, even as I also overcame [see John 16:33], and am set down with My Father in His throne" (Rev. 3:21).
There we have a very brief overview of the life of a believer. Is it not obvious that the life of a believer consists of a whole lot more than just "believing" that Jesus is the Christ? God has bigger plans for the human race than just "saving" them. God can "save" chickens, but God doesn’t want chickens for sons! God wants sons that are PERFECT as He is perfect! Wouldn’t you all agree that becoming perfect might just require a whole lot more than singing gospel music once a week? Perfection requires many things that only God can perform in our lives. We are, after all, His workmanship, His achievement. Having ALL OUR WORKS tried in the fire of His Holy Spirit is no small part of becoming perfect.
You can read the entire article here;
http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html
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I know how you feel "Z", God is looking more and more like a failure and no more in control than any other of the man made gods. Kinda sad, but true. Oh well, there's always another God waiting to try his luck.
Longhorn
Longhorn,
A failure by whose standards? Our weak and ever changing perceptions? Reread the article posted above and tell me what it means to you, I have experienced what you are going through and it is not pleasant, indeed it was never promised to be a day in the park, but the ultimate conclusion is promised to be more wonderful than anything we are capable of imagining.
I feel for you Brother,
Joe
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Zander, Longhorn,
I would have to say, based upon my own ups and downs with God....count yourself blessed that you are having "troubles" understanding your relationships with him. There is nothing worse than someone who truly believes they have it all figured out. The depths of truth are DEEP, and I believe you know that.
Perhaps it is something else.
I no longer mince words. I wasted so much of my life acting as if God had "let me down" somehow. In reality it was I, who had let HIM down.
The problem is with you, not a weak and uncaring God. There was a time in my life when I would have said that God MUST hate me, he must like seeing me suffer and feel unfullfilled and confused.
God suffers with us. In the fury of his cleansing fire I felt like he had left me for dead. When the smoke cleared, and I awoke, I realized that he had been standing in the shadows all the time with his arms open for me, but it was up to ME to accept his love. As Ray says, we have no free will when it comes to being called or chosen, but I believe we CAN reject his love. I know I did.
Don't reject his love. Talk more about how you feel.
I say, question,question,question....EVERYTHING. Most of all, YOUR attitude.
Now don't get angry at me, write and lets talk. I'll bet there are quite a few who have "been there, done that" on this site.
Hope to see more posts from you! Don't slip beyond the horizon, stay in the LIGHT!
May God bless you, always.
Chuck
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Zander, and all.
count it all joy.
we are not left nor forsaken, our feet get dirty in this world.
its not an easy walk its not suppose to be.
peace and grace to you all.
2Ti 3:1
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come
Chalepos None
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
khal-ep-os' Adjective
Definition
hard to do, to take, to approach
hard to bear, troublesome, dangerous
harsh, fierce, savage
i say this with all sincerity:
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. ;)
do NOT let whats going on around you cause your love to wax cold, its not for YOU.
you are LOVED.
grace and peace
chuckt
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My whole life has been one of suffering.
It is through suffering that I learn the great mysteries of God.
God's character has been attacked within me in every way possible. I've learned not to listen. When I believe in God's character in spite of what is going on around me I see God's character shine through. We walk by faith. Not by sight. We enter in by faith.
Not my will, but his will be done. Job 13:15 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him...
Hebrews 4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
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Very good stuff Chuckusa, Chumkin & MG,
It was not always the case with me but now I have real empathy for those who hurt, struggle and mourn, even when I see someone behind the register at a convenience store or a Day Laborer at one of our jobsites that has obviously had a rough going in life it hits me when before I wouldn't have given it a second thought. Yes, I have had my trials and tribulations, still do, but I can always find another person who is going through something worse or at least I perceive it as being worse, we can never really know what is going on in those other universes which are our brethren's minds here in this life.
We all have a unique relationship with Him, we are alone yet He is with us, we are together with family, friends or here in the Forum, yet we are alone with Him, we are a part of the Body of Christ but our walk is alone with Him, our relationship with Him is One on one, He is forming us into a totally unique creation for His purpose to be utilized as He sees fit even here in this life but especially preparing us for the next age when we will rule with Him and share in His glory. That would sound like a vain hope to some but it is actually very humbling, to even consider being a Son of God after living much of my life as a miserable selfish wretch is almost incomprehensible, but with Him all things are possible.
Zander and Longhorn please consider what others here have written, pray for understanding, talk to our Lord as the best Friend you ever had, He will hear you.
I pasted another relevent piece from Ray's Lake of Fire series, this portion is from Part III;
THE BELIEVER’S JUDGMENT BY FIRE
Well, yes, it does appear that there is a judgment on the house of God, but certainly not a judgment by FIRE, is there? Doesn’t God judge non-believers with fire, but not believers? This only sounds strange to you if you have never been taught the Scriptures.
"Beloved, think it NOT STRANGE concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some STRANGE thing happened unto you" (I Pet. 4:12).
Peter makes it sound as though going through fiery trails is the norm rather than the exception. The New Testament is filled with the fiery trials of the Saints.
Now I hope that none will be offended at my next few statements, but if so, so be it. Unless God Almighty through the purging power of His FIERY SPIRIT, is BURNING OUT the lusts and passions and vanity and haughtiness and greed and self-righteousness and laziness and weakness and hypocrisy and wickedness and pride and materialism and cynicism and depravity and carnality in your life, then Jesus Christ is not choosing you to reign with Him as the Sons of God in the Kingdom of God to bring all Heaven and Earth to repentance and salvation!
And I will tell you on the authority of Jesus Christ and all the Holy Scriptures, that anyone who teaches and takes delight in thinking that God would ever torture anyone for all eternity, will NEVER BE IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD WITH SUCH AN ATTITUDE!
Such damnable character flaws of the mind and spirit are going to be burned out of us all! God will either BURN OUT these filthy impurities from our hearts and minds NOW, or He will BURN THEM OUT IN THE LAKE OF FIRE, but either way, make no mistake about it, THESE THINGS ARE COMING OUT!!!
JOHN THE BAPTIST: John the Baptist said that Jesus would be baptizing repentant believers with fire.
"I indeed baptize you with water unto REPENTANCE: but He that comes after me is mightier than I, Whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, AND WITH FIRE" (Matt. 3:11).
JESUS CHRIST:
"For EVERY ONE [sinner and saint] shall be salted with FIRE" (Mark 9:49).
APOSTLE PETER:
"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it [your faith] be TRIED IN THE FIRE, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ" (I Pet. 1:7).
APOSTLE PAUL:
"Every man’s work [including believers] shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed BY FIRE, and the FIRE shall try every man’s work of what sort it is" (I Cor. 3:13).
With such noble and august witnesses, does anyone deny that the repentant, converted, dedicated, believing Christian will escape being "revealed," tried," "salted," and "baptized" by FIRE? These Scriptures are undeniable! Whatever this "fire" is, it is going to be used ON EVERYONE. These four Scriptures have the believer specifically in view, but it says and includes "EVERYONE shall be salted with FIRE," and "EVERY MAN’S WORK ... shall be revealed by FIRE."
And there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE when it comes to the non-believers:
"And I saw a great white throne ... And I saw the dead...and the dead were JUDGED ... according to their WORKS ... and they were judged EVERY MAN according to their WORKS" (Rev. 20:11-13).
And are these non-believers judged differently from believers who are "revealed, tried, salted and baptized IN FIRE?" Just HOW are these non-believers judged in the book of Revelation? How are the "...fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars..." JUDGED? Answer: "... In the lake WHICH BURNS WITH FIRE ..." (Rev. 21:8)!
Is this "fire" in the book of Revelation DIFFERENT from the fire that tries the works of believers in the book of I Corinthians? NO. The word "fire" used in the four examples above concerning believers, is the SAME word "fire" used in the book of Revelation concerning non-believers:
STRONG’s Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, page 219, #4442, pur; a primary word; "fire" (literally OR FIGURATIVELY. Pur is used (besides its ordinary natural significance):
(1) of the holiness of God, which consumes all that is inconsistent therewith, Heb. 10:27; 12:29; cf. Rev. 1:14; 2:18; 10:1; 15:2; 19:12;
(1a) similarly of the holy angels as His ministers, Heb. 1:7;
(1b) in Rev. 3:18 it is SYMBOLIC of that which tries the faith of saints, PRODUCING WHAT WILL GLORIFY THE LORD;
(2) of the divine judgment, testing the deeds of believers, at the judgment seat of Christ I Cor. 3:13 and 15;
(3) of the fire of DIVINE JUDGMENT upon the REJECTERS of Christ, Matt. 3:11 (where a distinction is to be made between the baptism of the holy Spirit at Pentecost and the "fire" of divine retribution; Acts 2:3 could not refer to baptism); Lk. 3:16."
End of quotation, (All CAPS emphasis are mine).
I was quite amazed to see this broadened definition in Strong’s Concordance. In my Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance that I purchased over forty years ago, it has but one line after the Greek word pur. It states that pur is "fire" either (literal or figurative), fiery, lightning. That’s it. So when I purchased the NEW Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible last week, I was pleasantly surprised to see the expanded definitions, especially with reference to this word "pur" -- FIRE. I learned the use of the word "fire" in Scripture the hard way -- I had to research.
We could easily spend twenty pages just commenting on the examples used in this expanded version of Strong’s. I won’t do that, but let’s take a brief look at a few enlightening items: First, we learn that this word can and is used "figuratively." And in fact, the first five examples given in Strong’s ARE examples of figurative usage of the word fire. And of the 500+ times the word 'fire' is used in the Bible, hundreds of times the word 'fire' is used in a figurative or symbolic sense.
I call your attention to statement Strong’s (1b) "In Rev. 3:18 it [fire] is SYMBOLIC, of that which tries the faith of saints, PRODUCING WHAT WILL GLORIFY THE LORD"! (CAPS emphasis mine).
I just love it when Christian Scholars will occasionally just absolutely "nail" a Scriptural Truth. Notice this beautiful and profound Scriptural Truth: The symbolic fire of Rev. 3:18 tries the faith of the saints, and PRODUCES what will GLORIFY THE LORD! ASTOUNDING!
Carefully note that it is not the "believer" who "produces" these glorious things, but it is the "SYMBOLIC FIRE" that produces them. And just Who is this "symbolic fire?" It is, of course, GOD -- "For OUR GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE." (Heb. 12:29)!
Therefore it is GOD who "PRODUCES" qualities in the saints that will GLORIFY HIMSELF! God’s consuming SPIRITUAL fire (remember that "GOD IS SPIRIT" Jn. 4:24) does the "producing," not the saint,
"For HIS ACHIEVEMENT are we, being created in Christ Jesus ..." (Eph. 2:10).
"Now what have you which you did not OBTAIN? Now if you OBTAINED it also [from GOD] why are you boasting as though [you are] not obtaining [it from God]?" (I Cor. 4:7 Concordant Literal New Testament).
"All is of God" (II Cor. 5:18).
"The One Who is operating ALL in accord with the counsel of HIS will" (Eph. 1:11).
This article can be read in its entirety @;
http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html
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Joe, thank you for posting that excerpt...VERY EXCELLENT!
Zander and Longhorn,
I will pray that you will both put GOD in the proper perspective in your life.
Someone posted on a different thread to read all of Leviticus 26 (which I recently did), can I suggest this chapter may be revealing to you both right now? Pray for God's guidance before you read, here is a sample:
Lev26:3 If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; .....(vs9) I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you."
The Lord is faithful in keeping his promises. Like everyone else is posting here, it's just getting over the FIERY trials that are necessary to bring you into his LOVE.
One day at a time...
Mat6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Please don't lose faith.
In His Name,
Marie
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My whole life has been one of suffering.
It is through suffering that I learn the great mysteries of God.
God's character has been attacked within me in every way possible. I've learned not to listen. When I believe in God's character in spite of what is going on around me I see God's character shine through. We walk by faith. Not by sight. We enter in by faith.
Not my will, but his will be done. Job 13:15 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him...
Hebrews 4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Wow, beautiful thread here, great posts by everyone. MG, great verses posted, I especially like Hebrews 4:10. Just what the doctor ordered, thank all of you.
God bless,
Gary
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I am just now getting back into the fold myself. I seem to go in cycles. I'm on fire for months at a time, and then I slip into the fleshly realm for months at a time. It's like I'm a repetitive prodigal son.
But even during those dry times, I still know deep inside that God will bring me back around. I hope it's the same for the others who go through these cycles.
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Joey Porter,
(Zander, Longhorn) from previous post:
Yes, it can happen as you say. But, I sometimes feel that I won't be ABLE to come back to the fold. Even as far as I have come, the mountain of what I have left to overcome sometimes seems insurmountable.
Earlier in this thread, I wrote to Zander, and Longhorn. First, I was wrong to put them together. They are two different unique individuals. Second, I feel now that I was a little harsh in my words. Maybe I panic a little. I just don't want anyone to slip away feeling that no one cares. I really, really know what that feels like. Maybe as a father, I just developed a "bossy" attitude (my daughter says I am!)...but I really hope I didn't offend.
Ephesians 5:14 "for it is light that makes things visible. This is why it is said:"
"Wake up, O sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and christ will shine on you."
It was with this in mind that I spoke before....and why I speak about it now.
Blessings and PEACE,
Chuck
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I hear ya, Chuck.
It is a good thing our future is not based upon things we say, do, or think. This whole life is a gift from God our Father, and He will make us to know the truth, each in his own time.
This is the good news, for if our destiny was based upon what we said, did, or thought, we would all be in a lot of trouble.
I thank God for this forum, God bless you all.
Gary
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It is a good thing our future is not based upon things we say, do, or think.
Hi Gary
Why do you think our future is not based upon things we say, do or think?
Peace,
Layla
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Lam 3:31 For men are not cast off
by the Lord forever.
Lam 3:37 Who can speak and have it happen
if the Lord has not decreed it?
Lam 3:38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High
that both calamities and good things come?
Lam 3:39 Why should any living man complain
when punished for his sins?
Lam 3:57 You came near when I called you,
and you said, "Do not fear."
I was just reading this today and it seems to fit in this thread
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It is a good thing our future is not based upon things we say, do, or think.
Hi Gary
Why do you think our future is not based upon things we say, do or think?
Peace,
Layla
Hello Layla,
If my future was based upon things I say, do or think, then my future would be based upon my own righteousness. My future is based upon what He has said, done, is doing, and will do, and think.
Truthfully, now that God is working is each of us, we now are a new creation, and it is no longer us who lives, but Him who is in us. If the end result of our future was up to us, we all would be in a heap of trouble.
Also, the differences of what I say, do, or think now are totally different than before. Now, I put forth more effort to say, do and think of better things, yet it was caused from what God is doing. We can take no credit. It is all about Him.
God bless,
Gary
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Amen Gary
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Hi folks
I felt i should let you know, in case anyone was wondering (yeah gosh i think i must be v.popular ;D ), that i am merely an observer on this site from time to time now and dont come here as often or place as much input. I am having some trouble at the moment regarding relationship with God etc. I understand it all, but feel very let down by him.
Well i wish you all welll
Z
Hi Zander,
I can relate to what you are going through, believe me I do. And I too feel let down by God, and just feel like since everything was predestinated by Him, then this was just the life He chose for me. And sometimes that's a really hard pill to swallow. And it makes it really hard to want to worship such a God.
I hope things work out for you Z.
Take care,
Sorin
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Hi Gary
Thanks for the response.
If my future was based upon things I say, do or think, then my future would be based upon my own righteousness. My future is based upon what He has said, done, is doing, and will do, and think. Truthfully, now that God is working is each of us, we now are a new creation, and it is no longer us who lives, but Him who is in us. If the end result of our future was up to us, we all would be in a heap of trouble.
Phl 2:12-13
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
I see a joint cooperation in attaining to overcoming. Certainly the righteousness we attain to is not ours but that of Jesus Christ and even more certain it is God doing the work, however, I don't see these truths as nullifying our words or actions. In other words,
Gal 6:7-8
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
I think what we do, say or think has much to do with the "increase" given by God. The increase is the work of God and the changes that are wrought in us, but the submission must be done on our part. We must crucify our flesh in order that the Spirit can freely flow through us. Thus, I see "action" on our part. Thus, I see the things we do and say can and does affect our future.
I think the idea that God is doing everything can lead a believer to become dismayed. They wonder why changes are not forthcoming and fail to turn and look at themselves and instead blame God or lose faith.
I'm not trying to argue with you or pick on your statement. If you see some fault in what I am seeing here, please share it with me.
Peace,
Layla
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Hello Layla,
Faith without works is dead. I agree with you, there are things we do, say, and think that helps bring about righteousness. I am just very careful not to take too much credit, or to boast of the good changes.
It looks like we agree with each other, it is through this type of communication over the internet, where we dont see each others faces, mannerisms, body language, and tone of voice that makes it hard at times to properly convey a message.
I guess, what I really mean, is looking at the difference from where I was (serving self), and now (hopefully serving others). This makes me think of His two commandments, to love God and neighbors with all our hearts. This love being put outwards towards God and others, has brought a greater sense of peace, than I ever could of achieved before. And that love is of God, for God is love.
God bless,
Gary
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Gary and Layla
"Delight yourself in the Lord; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart. Commit thy way unto the Lord; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass." Psalm37:4-5
CIY
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Zander, thank you for letting us all know. I did miss you and figured it was about your break up. You and Sorin for some reason are on my heart alot! Guys, don't give up on God, ever, Remember......even if He slay me, yet will I worship Him. For me, getting back to Ray's papers puts things back into perspective then I can get into the Bible believing He does really care for me.
Life is so short and fleeting....
Love to you all. Prayers are still going up for you.
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Zander and Sorin, I really do identify. Life has been so hard that it almost seems like a joke that so much can go wrong for
so long. I have many times recently felt like God must hate me because He seemed to be unwilling to give any relief.
Very weary and worn--life seems like a prison... no visible hope for so long. We each have our limits and circumstances,
losses and heartaches.
For me, it hits the bottom line very quickly because of what God has taught thru BT. God is soveriegn. (PERIOD!) So I am
SURE that He is able to help, and when He doesn't, then I KNOW that He has a reason. Does that mean He hates me? I have wondered when I was buried by life. But I know the verses in Hebrew that says He chastens ALL that He loves. It doesn't feel like love at the moment, does it?
What about the verses saying we should give thanks in EVERYthing, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus.... After I had hit the bottom of the bottom for the umteenths time, the thought came to me that I was not being obedient-- forgot to be thankful..... and in all my misery, I had failed to focus and grasp and appreciate the wonder of our awesome God! I was NOT worshipping as I was putting out fires. I was hurting, struggling, and whining
and complaining about my "misfortune" but had forgotten to worship -- had God become less of a God, less awesome?
I guess that is what I was thinking- God sure isn't very nice...... boo-hoo :-( mumble, grumble...............
That moment hit me! I was just wanting my way, my comfort, and to be in control (god) of my own life! YUK!
I could see (once again!) that I was so unworthy and that I was not able or willing to see the big picture-- God's plan that my human mind can not grasp and I was unwilling to trust Him. I had a perfect point in my history to remember the fool I am and WHY I need God!
And then God let me see what I had forgotten: Christ was humiliated, falsely accused and abused and suffered rejection,
betrayal, injustice and terrible pain - physical and mental and DEATH! and He was God!!! He said that we must lose our
life to find LIFE. So who do I think I am that I do NOT have to suffer the same?!!!! How would I learn obedience any other
way, if it was by suffering that Christ learned obedience?!
We learn with repetative lessons. We die by layers, as the flesh is removed from us. We would not willingly submit, for it
is way too painful! When we are young or first come to Christ, we surrender all. We simply do not know what ALL means!
It is by degrees that we learn. I have a love/hate attitude about this process. It hurts so bad to die to the flesh, it cuts SO
DEEP. But even in the suffering and loss and struggle for daiily survival, I see two things: 1) how God makes beautiful
flower gardens from the composted rubbish. In the midst of troubles, He makes "things" happen that could not happen
with my own trying-- like relationship growth-- personal growth as well. 2) how there is NOTHING this world has to offer
-- not mates, children, money, comfort or pleasure that tops knowing the ONE, TRUE, LIVING GOD of creation!!! And for
that desire (that He has placed in my being) I have the courage to say, "Not my will, by thine be done-- no matter what the
cost." I simply understand that there is more to our existience than this puny body and this short earth-life and I want HIM!
so badly! I say this with tears in my eyes because I am so weary and I understand the cost.
But there is a glimmer of hope and even joy somewhere deep inside that pleads with God to give me the strength to endure with patience to the end of my life. He won't let me go and so I have hope that He will continue to work this nasty lump of clay-- pounding out the air bubbles, spinning me dizzy, baking me in fierce heat........ that one day, I may be a vessel of honor for His purposes-- to glorify Him.
I could say more, but I have already said TOO much! Sorry so long! You guys at BT are the only ones I know that understandthese things...... JJ
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You brought tears to my eyes JJ.
Thank you!
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Zander, thank you for letting us all know. I did miss you and figured it was about your break up. You and Sorin for some reason are on my heart alot! Guys, don't give up on God, ever, Remember......even if He slay me, yet will I worship Him. For me, getting back to Ray's papers puts things back into perspective then I can get into the Bible believing He does really care for me.
Life is so short and fleeting....
Love to you all. Prayers are still going up for you.
Thank you Gena.
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JJ,
That was a wonderful post and I know it was from the heart. I hope Zander will see it too. I can only speak for myself, but I agree with what you are saying. And believe you me I am going through some (much deserved) chastening right now. I really need to repent. I also need to let go of my idols of the heart (i.e. having a wife/mate...money, my own place, being successful in life etc...). Also all the sin that's in my life. Well I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hi-jack Zander's thread. So I won't say anymore about myself in here.
Zander I wish you well. And I hope you will come by from time to time.
Take care,
Sorin
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Wow JJ! May God bless you for spilling those words alone!
Your testimony will help many (if not just ME) see into God's deep chastening, and encourage us to HAVE HOPE.
I am going to print your words so when I'm going through it, I will remember a brother who has gone through the same and will hopefully not forget that God still loves me even when I don't feel it or feel I don't deserve it.
Thank you very much.
Marie
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Marie, I wanted toprint JJ's words and I got 20 pages of the whole thread. Do you know something I don't know" ???
I don't mind having the entire thread on paper as it is such a good one, but it is my old printer spitting out 20 pages and ink and all. Oh well.
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So glad that anything I shared was in any way helpful (like using all your ink!) Am feeling the need to have some like-minded fellowship so I'll just say now that I am Jayle and female and "Hi!" to all.
Sorin, so glad you are still with us! Me too, the chastening just isn't fun, but it is deserved for me as well. And ya know, I have no vices and people think I am so clean cut but I know myself and even for those of us that don't break any of the do and don'ts, there is still so much flesh-selfishness and the desire to put our own comfort #1.....just turn up the heat and see it all spill out!..... sin is sin-- God sees us from the inside out and my inner being needs purged!
My heart goes out to Zander and Sorin! Just praying that you both hang on Christ until He brings the gals for each of you that He knows will make a lasting match. Praying for you both! Don't leave us guys!
And thanks, Bobby, for always pointing us to scripture and giving encouragement! This is a great group of folks!
Jayle (JJ)
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Thank you Jayle. It's much appreciated.
God bless,
Sorin
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Marie, I wanted toprint JJ's words and I got 20 pages of the whole thread. Do you know something I don't know" ???
I don't mind having the entire thread on paper as it is such a good one, but it is my old printer spitting out 20 pages and ink and all. Oh well.
Hi Gena,
I just copied and pasted JJ's type into a word document, only 2 pages.
;)
Marie
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Your welcome Bobby!
I'll counteract and throw that praise up to God> He gave me everything I've got! ;)
PRAISE GOD!
FOR ALL THE GOOD THINGS YOU GIVE US, LORD, WE THANK YOU AND ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR EVER-PRESENCE!
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Hi folks
I felt i should let you know, in case anyone was wondering (yeah gosh i think i must be v.popular ;D ), that i am merely an observer on this site from time to time now and dont come here as often or place as much input. I am having some trouble at the moment regarding relationship with God etc. I understand it all, but feel very let down by him.
Well i wish you all welll
Z
I thought this e-mail to Ray & his response would be appropriate in this thread;
Bi-Polar
« on: Today at 06:51:09 AM »
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So..now what?
I have bipolar disorder. I am destroying my marriage with rage. My husband
smokes more pot than you can even imagine and we are both “saved” and go to
“church” – imagine that.
Ray, I grew up in WWCG. I am more than clear on those doctrinal errors. So, for about
20 years, I decided that I really couldn’t care less about what happens to this body
after I die. I can’t see that far.
I just want this pain to stop. I don’t know how to make my life work. I don’t know how.
I don’t know how to control this beast within before I lose my marriage.
Oh yeah, its hard for me to really call out to God because when I get sick, “he” talks
to me. And we know that God doesn’t talk to people like that. Besides, even if he did
everything that is said contradicts itself. In 1997, when I first got sick, before I was
hospitalized, I was horrified because the 2 weeks of voices made it seem like Satan and God
were the same person. It is kinda like what you say about god creating evil, but far more
frightening.
And when I increase my time in bible study, or meditating or even praying too much, I start
to hear the noise in my head again.
Bipolar is well handled with medication, but I have so many issues from growing up in a cult,
and the dysfunctional family that brought me there – I look like I have it all together. The
doctors call me “high functioning” When all I want to do is just die.
I can’t live with this shame. I feel like such a failure.
So the beast is within, it’s confirmed. Now what do I do? How do I make it through
this life on the way to the next one? How do I stop being sick? How do I stop hurting
people with my own pain? And how do I stop the tears?
I can’t see anything.
Dear Janice:
I get lots of emails like yours (or at least similar). I can't save you, Janice. Only God can save you. God brought you to my site for a reason. Have you read everything?
When one is in your condition, they are perfect candidates for salvation. There is no use in saving those who have nothing they need saving from, right? That's why Jesus said He came to save sinners, not the righteous (as thought there are any righteous, but there are those who think that they are righteous).
You need to cry out to God, Janice. There is no easy fix. There is no easy formula. There are no magic words. Salvation is between you and God. I can encourage you and teach you, but right now you need Jesus, not me. You need to repent of everything that is destroying your life. This will require the Spirit of God. You can only get the Spirit of God from God, not from me. I tell people to PRAY AND OBEY unto God reveals Himself to you. God does not want to frustrate you, but He wants you to come to Him in complete surrender and humility, and judging from your condition, that should not be to very hard. We will be praying for you.
God be with you,
Ray
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Joe- Wow! It hurts to hear about so many hurting people. We need to pray for Janice. Hopefully she will follow Rays suggestions and find our forum.
Marie-Thanks for the tip. I will try that next time!
Jayle-Thank you for the kind words(pm). I am so glad God led you to us.
To all- I don't say it enough, but I can't wait to get on the forum each day to fellowship with all of you. You are so precious to me. You don't know how you have helped me in my walk, given me things to laugh about, pray about, think about. Thanks and God Bless All of You!