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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: rick on October 17, 2013, 06:59:59 PM
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I've been very interested in politics for some time now but since reading the lake of fire series politics have taking on a different meaning to me knowing that man does not direct his own footsteps.
I find myself loosing interest in this area after understanding God is in full control and there is no such thing as free will or choice. Yes its true I'm in the world but not apart of the world and lately I been wondering why do I vote? Does not the word of God say that Satan offered the kingdoms of the world to Jesus.
So what devil should I vote for? Answer none of them. After reading the lake of fire series D 2 Hell /Tophet and molech in Himmon I come across this by Ray
(The Bohemian Club (founded in 1872 ) is a private men's art club based in San Francisco , California , with a membership of many prominent local and global leaders. Some prominent figures are given honorary membership only, Richard Nixon and William Randolph Hearst being two notable examples.
Members include some U.S. presidents (usually before they are elected to office), many cabinet officials, and CEOs of large corporations, including major financial institutions. Major military contractors , oil companies, banks (including the Federal Reserve ), utilities, and national media have high-ranking officials as club members or guests
Every year the club hosts an annual two week camp at Bohemian Grove , which is notable for its illustrious guest list and its eclectic Cremation of Care ceremony involving a mock human sacrifice at the feet of a forty-foot stone owl.
The primary activities taking place at the Grove are varied and expensive entertainment, such as an elaborate Grove Play (known as "High Jinx") and musical comedies ("Low Jinx") � where female roles are played by men in drag � produced by the members and associate members of the Club. Thus, the majority of common facilities are entertainment venues, interspersed among the giant redwoods
The ceremony takes place next to a 45-foot (15 m) high concrete owl statue. During the ceremony, audio plays through nearby speakers providing the illusion of a speaking statue. The voice of the former-newsman Walter Cronkite , a member of the Bohemian Club, is used as the voice of The Owl during the ceremony.
President Richard Nixon: "The Bohemian Grove, that I attend from time to time � the (inaudible) and the others come there � but it is the most faggy g - - d - - - thing that you would ever imagine. The San Francisco crowd, it's just terrible. I can't even shake hands with anybody from San Francisco." � President Richard M. Nixon , Bohemian Club member starting in 1953 (Domhoff, p 15);
Other Bohemian members and guests include: George P. Shultz, Gerald R. Ford, Henry Kissinger, William F. Buckley, Jr., Merv Griffin, Joseph Coors, Edward Teller, Ronald Reagan, George Bush, Casper W. Weinberger, Colin Powell, Newt Gingrich, Frank Popoff, Danny Glover, Alexander Haig, Chuck Yeager, Donald Rumsfeld, TV personality Chris Matthews, gay porn star Chad Savage, Charlton Heston, Jack London, Art Linkletter, Jimmy Carter, Dwight Eisenhower, and hundreds of other prominent politicos, businessmen, military leaders, and foreign heads of state and dignitaries.
I merely present a few facts concerning this strange ritual in the forest without lending credence to either of two broad interpretations of what this Club represents: pagan rituals with gross immorality involving prostitution and drunkenness, or just a little fun in the sun for high level movers and shakers to relax for a few weeks. But I think we seriously have to ask ourselves, of the thousands of possible settings and themes for a high level elitists men's club: why a sacrifice to a giant pagan idol in the woods to purge themselves of the cares of this world? And why are many of these same barons of politics, industry, and media also members of the Freemasons, Skull and Bones, and similar ghastly and secret fraternities
I cast my vote for Jesus Christ Son of the living God and Him only.
Peace and Love to all of you.
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I personally don't vote because I belong to the kingdom of God. We are to be a peculiar people, a holy nation.
What citizen belonging of one nation, votes in the affairs of another?
My vote belongs to the kingdom of God's. There it is cast. I do not meddle in the affairs of other nations.
In the world, NOT of it ;)
That's just my take though, others may love to disagree!
God bless,
Alex
P.S. That doesn't stop me from getting frustrated at the evil of governments or politicians though. I could talk your ear off about it just like anyone else! :P
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That's what I'm beginning to see also, The lake of fire series has really open my eyes or I should say God is opening my eyes through the lake of fire series.
I been seeing many changes in me lately such as how I view thing and things that once turned me on now turn me off and now this politic thing I'm seeing as something to flee from.
Love and Peace to all.
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First I lost my religion. Then I lost my 'upbringing'. Then I lost my ideologies. Then I lost my politics. I don't miss them.
I haven't joined the 'other side' in any of them having lost my own. There is very little I like to 'talk about' on the subjects because no matter which side of the fence my 'talking partner' is on, it's highly unlikely they believe in God--protestations to the contrary. Let the dead bury the dead.
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Dave, all these things your talking about is what I'm feeling this day. My interest are changing so much, even my favorite sin such a drag to me. No doubt Christ is working wonders in me as such I have never experience before and its incredible ,painful and sometimes confusing too.
Thanks for your response Dave.
Love and peace to all.
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Voting in this sham of a democracy is an exercise in futility. But I don't want to get into politics on here, nor really anywhere else anymore, because I have my own problems to deal with first.
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Voting in this sham of a democracy is an exercise in futility.
Yeah, but if we pay our taxes, aren't we supposed to vote, knowing that we(voters) will get the government we deserve, regardless of how we vote?
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Voting in this sham of a democracy is an exercise in futility.
Yeah, but if we pay our taxes, aren't we supposed to vote, knowing that we(voters) will get the government we deserve, regardless of how we vote?
Nah, we get the government that none of us want, whether we vote or not.
Something to lighten up this thread:
(https://fbcdn-photos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1383394_647393765283702_2012053626_n.jpg)
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I wonder what it would be like to have foreign troops come into my home in the middle of the night.. pull me into the street put a weapon in my face.. threaten my family or worse.. Or what it would be like to have one of my children blown to pieces by a drone bomb.
Or what it would be like as a child to have my dad kill himself rather than have to live with the terrible memories of war.
I can only wonder how that would feel. It breaks my heart to realize that this is a reality for someone somewhere else in the world. Whoever that someone is, he is a creation of The Most High created in His image as much as I am, with the same life breath of God inside him. Far be it from me to have any part in the pain, suffering, humiliation, agony that is imposed on this person.
There's a lot of factors that contribute to the horrors happening to innocent people in the places where the U.S. wages it's wars. Some won't agree with me and some may well be offended but I'm only speaking for myself and the convictions that God has placed in MY heart and those convictions show me that by voting for a government that carries out these acts, that makes me responsible for these acts even if only in a small part. I mean when a drone bomb kills an innocent 5 year old girl, who's responsible? The drone operator who pushed the button, the officer who gave the order, the president who wages the war, or the 60 million people who chose that president to represent themselves and their interests on the world stage? Its certainly a big equation with lots of factors but voting, to me, is part of the equation.
Even if I really believed that these wars are to protect my freedom, safety, etc., My worldly freedom isn't more important than an innocent life. Worldly freedom is just an illusion anyway. The only true freedom was bought and paid for on the cross and no one can take it from me. It doesn't require that I kill for it. It does require that I be willing to die for it.
I dunno. I've been told that I'm too dramatic when it comes to my convictions in this area.. But we're supposed to help widows and orphans, not cause them. More US soldiers kill themselves than die in combat. I've watched YouTube clips of soldiers talking about how they were told they were going to fight terrorists over seas only to come to the realization that the soldiers themselves were the terrorists in the eyes of innocent villagers. I've read suicide notes of soldiers. Seen documentaries of families who've suffered innocently by drone strikes, night raids mistakenly killing pregnant women etc.
It'd be much easier to just believe the POTUS when he gets on tv and says civilian casualties from drones are few. Or that these wars are wars of necessity and not wars of choice. Or that we're bringing freedom to those people by killing them. It'd be easy to just take his word for it and give him my vote. I'm more concerned with the ugly truth than a beautiful lie.
Guess I'm not much of a patriot. But I don't suppose God is American anyway..
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Hi largeli,
You ask who is responsible for all that evil? God is responsible plain and simple. He did after all give Satan power over the nation.
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When I was a southern baptist, our church used to hand out voting tracts prepared by the Christian Coalition. Anything that Babylon gets involved with should raise a red flag in our minds. There will never be a shortage of people in this country, or world, who will want to vote. Politics is nasty business, as it is mainly about power, corruption, backstabbing, and lying. You all know how bad it gets around election time, with all those negative ads and smear campaigns. This is the way of the world, and they love to have it this way. As Lilitalianboi pointed out, "We are a peculiar people", and should not be involved in the affairs of this world system.
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john from kentucky, why do you always have to be so belittling in your comments to forum members? ???
claudia
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john from kentucky, why do you always have to be so belittling in your comments to forum members? ???
claudia
Claudia, I think John is just much more bold in his interactions with us. I don't think there is anything wrong with that and he provides a very different perspective sometimes that is lacking and needed. God is uniquely fashioning each one of us, including our dear old brother John here! ;)
Dare I go so far as to say, sometimes, he's entertaining. ;D Haha.
Love to you dear sister, and of course, to you too john! :P
In Christ,
Alex
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OK all,
Back to politics and voting.
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Rom 13:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
Rom 13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
Rom 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
and
Mat_22:17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
Mat_22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
My take on this is that we have to live according to the laws of the land as long as it does not conflict with God's instruction.
We are obligated to pay taxes. Voting is a personal choice. Neither good or evil. One's own conscience dictates what to do. Rom. 14:23.
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John from Kentucky
They're not MY tax dollars to begin with... Are they yours?
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John from Kentucky
They're not MY tax dollars to begin with... Are they yours?
What fun. A philosophy question.
I feel like the young Kung Fu sitting at the feet of Master Po.
"Ah, grasshopper, observe the water lily and all will be revealed."
O.K., to answer your question, my tax dollar had a picture of Washington. Render to Washington the things that are Washington's...... Did I pass the test?
With flying colors grasshoppa..
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Claudia,
Are you saying I'm still carnal? :D If so, your words are hurtful. :'( Just not feeling the love here.
i have never "appreciated" bullies in government/politics or on this forum. we are all yet carnal.
claudia
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There is none righteous, no not one. Everybody has the answer, and everybody has God on their side. If only all those pesky other people would think/act/do/vote right this world would be a paradise of peace and plenty. Why oh why won't they get that speck out of their eye? Dear Lord, how long do we have to wait before everybody agrees with me? Sorry, I mean, me and You. Jesus is my tag-team wrestling partner, personal pocket-savior, and validator of all my parking prejudices.
Vote, and you're a sinner. Don't vote and you're a sinner. Vote wrong, and you are a sinner.
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There is none righteous, no not one. Everybody has the answer, and everybody has God on their side. If only all those pesky other people would think/act/do/vote right this world would be a paradise of peace and plenty. Why oh why won't they get that speck out of their eye? Dear Lord, how long do we have to wait before everybody agrees with me? Sorry, I mean, me and You. Jesus is my tag-team wrestling partner, personal pocket-savior, and validator of all my parking prejudices.
Vote, and you're a sinner. Don't vote and you're a sinner. Vote wrong, and you are a sinner.
Looks like this should be an easy choice! ;D
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Man is man wherever you go.. US or Tonga. The horrors of the wars being fought are just man doing what man does. All I'm saying is that I'm not going to play an active role in it because I know I wouldn't want any of that stuff done to me.
It doesn't take a moral Einstein to be against killing innocents or recognize hypocrisy. I wouldn't be ok with a drone bomb killing my family.. And so if I'm ok with a drone bomb killing someone else's family then wouldn't I be a hypocrite?
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Hello all
This Is how I feel about voting,this first half part scene from rambo.
http://youtu.be/N_F3UbTjPFE
Walt.
Ps. last part of scene is what we should aim for, just my thoughts.
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I personally like voting when I feel moved to; and I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.
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I am confused, does not God determine our leaders? How can our vote change anything God has already determined?
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I am confused, does not God determine our leaders? How can our vote change anything God has already determined?
I don't think God hand picks all of our leaders, perhaps far less of them than we think; I don't think he even cares about most of the worlds leaders. I think he picks just those he has a will to deal with for his particular reasons. I don't think God looks to determine every little thing in government, or in the world. I think he couldcareless about most of the affiars of men, they are meaningless to him. Thats what Isaiah said about him. It is our human right to vote on things which concern us as humans; such as local issues; racial issues, rights issues, and zoning issues. Family issues and neighborhood issues; all kinds of issues that may concern you. Why would God be mad at me for voting for my son to have rights to go to school where I want him to go? Am I being " Unspiritual" if I choose to vote for jails not to be built in my neighborhood? Am I an unbeliever if I vote for blacks and minoritys to have more rights in my state? Will I be frowned on - on this website if I vote to have a new road built on my street?
Wow!
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Hi Mickiel
"...for He has appointed a time for every matter, and for every work..." (The New Revised Standard Version).
"For He has set a season for every event and for every deed..." (The Concordant Literal Old Testament).
There is no wasted motion in God's creation, purpose and plan. Everything has an appointed time, and everything includes: "every purpose, every work, every matter, every event, and every deed."
I believe God cares about everything and chooses every leader in every nation on planet earth. Everything is predestined even this post.
Love and peace to all.
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Hi Mickiel
"...for He has appointed a time for every matter, and for every work..." (The New Revised Standard Version).
"For He has set a season for every event and for every deed..." (The Concordant Literal Old Testament).
There is no wasted motion in God's creation, purpose and plan. Everything has an appointed time, and everything includes: "every purpose, every work, every matter, every event, and every deed."
I believe God cares about everything and chooses every leader in every nation on planet earth. Everything is predestined even this post.
Love and peace to all.
Greetings,
I view it differently, I don't think God cares about everything; some things I think he just does not care about. Lets just use you as an example; do you think God cares about what kind of computer you have? Do you think he cares what kind of deodorant you wear? Does he care about what kind of food you like? Does he care about how many nightclubs are in your city? Does he care what the Mayor of your town drives, and what kind of gas he puts in his car? Does he care about the leaders in every single tribe in Africa and Asia and the Forrest regions? Does he care who is leading China and why would he? Why should God concern himself with every little detail in Americas government? Why? Why should God care about picking every single Senator and every single Governor- every single year? How would " Not picking them" stop him from getting his way? Explain to me why God has to manipulate every single thing in reality? Why??
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Explain to me why God has to manipulate every single thing in reality? Why??
Because He is sovereign! No human being has free will, God is the ultimate cause of all things. To say He does not care about anything in the creation is denying He is the supreme over this creation. This is His plan and this creation is going exactly as He so desires, down to the most minute detail.
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, "My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,'
Eph 1:11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
Php 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
Pro 16:9 A man's heart plans his way,
But the LORD directs his steps.
Pro 20:24 A man's steps are of the LORD;
How then can a man understand his own way?
Jer 10:23 O LORD, I know the way of man is not in himself;
It is not in man who walks to direct his own steps.
Amo 4:13 For behold,
He who forms mountains,
And creates the wind,
Who declares to man what his thought is,
And makes the morning darkness,
Who treads the high places of the earth--
The LORD God of hosts is His name.
Isa 45:7 Former of light and Creator of darkness, Maker of good and Creator of evil. I, Yahweh Elohim, made all of these things." (CLV)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Yes, God determines who the leaders of nations will be. And He does through them what He wills. He raises up kingdoms and brings them down, and He does it at the international, national, organizational, and even the personal level. He uses them for His purpose and when he is finished with them, He judges them. I'll argue again that it is not even in the slimmest realm of possibility that carnal-minded men and women can be disciples of Jesus Christ--certainly not consistently. This may be even MORE true in a democracy (or representative republic) because it takes masses of carnal-minded men and women to "give" them power, and take it away.
Whether or not it is "carnal-minded" to vote, I'll leave to your own conscience and understanding, but it is carnal-minded to think that you or I have either the wisdom or ability to determine or thwart the Will of God.
Because God is in control does NOT mean that all of his "choices" in these matters are GOOD. Much of the world (most of it, maybe) is a backdrop of Evil. How are disciples of Christ supposed to return GOOD for EVIL if Evil doesn't exist (as just one example)? Decent people yearn for GOOD, and I understand that. Not only has God put the "kings" in place, but He has put the people in place as well. Some prosper, and some suffer as time and history play out. The maturing in Christ LEARN. Their time isn't this age, but the next. This age is a cauldron of good intentions, evil intentions, good results and evil results and unintended good and evil results as well, because people are beasts and lack the true wisdom of God. All of them--including you and me.
Anyway, do what you want. You're going to anyway. And your work will be judged as well, whether good or bad.
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Well again I am placed in a situation where I see things differently, and I apologise for that, meaning no disrespect. There are two suggestions that look to suggest that God cares about everything and must be involved in everything, and that we should not vote. In Isaiah 40: 15, " Behold, the nations are like a drop from a bucket, and are regarded as a speck of dust on the scales." Vs. 17, " All the nations are as nothing before him, they are regarded " By Him", as less than nothing and meaningless." Why should God care about everything nations do, if he regards them as less than nothing and meaningless? He does not care about everything that nations do. It does not mean anything to him. If I regard something as " Less than nothing", why would I try to control the less than nothing? God is not a control freak; he does according to his will, and quite frankly, he simply is not interested in everything that nations do. Daniel 4:35 " ALL the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing." There exist a side of God that takes no concern whatsoever what the earth is doing. And of course he is interested in some things. What those things are, none of us actually know. We cannot correctly say what he does not care about, nor can we correctly say that he cares about everything, and that be accurate.
In Isaiah 43:25, " I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions " For my own sake." " For my own sake", means " Interest". God is interested in doing that, forgiveness interest him. He does it for his own reasons. He is not interested in every thing humans do. He is saying here that he, for his own interest, will forgive and not even remember our sins; if he is not going to even remember them, then he does not care about them. Which may shock some. Why care about something that your going to wipe from your memory? That makes no sense.
Concerning voting and the suggestion that we should not; In Mark 12:17 " Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. Right there Jesus taught that we should pay taxes, that we can be involved in government. He kept it on an equal plane in comparison; render to Caesar ( or government) and render to God; this means we can be committed to both, or be involved with both; we do not have to section ourselves off from Caesar or from government. Why should we " Render to Caesar", or government, and not be involved in picking or electing who will be Caesar, or president? What kind of sense does that make? Render is " Giving to, paying attention; its a commitment." Jesus is teaching that we can pay attention to government, we can give to government or be involved; we can vote if we want to. Jesus did not teach us not to vote. That is not in scripture. I don't know where we got that from. And let me apologise again for seeing this differently, I mean no discord. Jesus taught this plain and clear, he did not try to persuade his people to not be involved in government.
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If you want to vote, wy don't you just go and do so?
Does it serve any purpose to engage in a meaningless back and forth when you already have your strong views.
Ultimately, it's ALL of God.
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You are saying that God got all this creation started down here in this world and then it was just 'hands off' - not interested. That indicates that you believe that man has free will and is determining how things in this world will go, because God could not care less. What kind of God do you think we have that would create such a wicked world then not care about the turmoil and suffering that is going on? He is very much a caring God! You disrespect our God over and over by your comments towards Him. To say He does not care what happens in this world, is like saying He does not love this world. He demonstrated His immense loving care (more than humans can even understand) for every person that will ever live in that He died for all of us.
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
All I can think is you have mistaken all this suffering and wickedness as not caring, but if you would read some of what in the BT site you would know that this is all temporary and actually serves a good purpose. All this is according to His plan, not just what is happening at random. He is totally in control, sovereign, nothing happens independent of Him.
Col 1:17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
Here is a short email that helps explain the purpose for things to be as they are at this time.
http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm -------------------------
God is SPIRIT. God is interested ONLY in spiritual things. All this physical creation is not something that God takes great pleasure in--it is but a means to an end. Well, what does He want then? He wants CHILDREN! SPIRITUAL Sons and Daughters in HIS VERY IMAGE!
But, how does He get them? Create them? Yes, CREATE them. But how does He create them. Instantly? No. To be in the IMAGE of God means that we will have the very same CHARACTER AND LOVE of God. Character and Love cannot be created instantly; it can only be developed over a period of time under severe pressure and duress. And so God creates severe pressure and duress, which produces GODLY CHARACTER. Imagine creating "patience," INSTANTLY? Why the very thought is self-contradicting. Patience by its very nature means that something must be WAITED FOR even though it is desired NOW.
God knows what He is doing. Now then, there is a second part to all this. We ourselves would never ever really appreciate the qualities of character, virtue, and love, that we will possess if we did not have to "sweat blood" to get them. There is no virtue that you can name that is not the result of overcoming some form of evil. And so this physical, human, temporal existence is as beneficial for US, and it is to GOD.
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Psa 66:7 He rules by His power forever;
His eyes observe the nations;
Do not let the rebellious exalt themselves.Selah
When He said "all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing," that is in comparison to His greatest and glory and certainly did not mean they were nothing to Him.
To vote is to believe you have some control over what will happen - free will, and is also participating in worldly affairs. As believers we have to pick who we will serve.
James 4:4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
Mat 6:24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Well again I am placed in a situation where I see things differently, and I apologise for that, meaning no disrespect. There are two suggestions that look to suggest that God cares about everything and must be involved in everything, and that we should not vote. In Isaiah 40: 15, " Behold, the nations are like a drop from a bucket, and are regarded as a speck of dust on the scales." Vs. 17, " All the nations are as nothing before him, they are regarded " By Him", as less than nothing and meaningless." Why should God care about everything nations do, if he regards them as less than nothing and meaningless? He does not care about everything that nations do. It does not mean anything to him. If I regard something as " Less than nothing", why would I try to control the less than nothing? God is not a control freak; he does according to his will, and quite frankly, he simply is not interested in everything that nations do. Daniel 4:35 " ALL the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing." There exist a side of God that takes no concern whatsoever what the earth is doing. And of course he is interested in some things. What those things are, none of us actually know. We cannot correctly say what he does not care about, nor can we correctly say that he cares about everything, and that be accurate.
In Isaiah 43:25, " I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions " For my own sake." " For my own sake", means " Interest". God is interested in doing that, forgiveness interest him. He does it for his own reasons. He is not interested in every thing humans do. He is saying here that he, for his own interest, will forgive and not even remember our sins; if he is not going to even remember them, then he does not care about them. Which may shock some. Why care about something that your going to wipe from your memory? That makes no sense.
Concerning voting and the suggestion that we should not; In Mark 12:17 " Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. Right there Jesus taught that we should pay taxes, that we can be involved in government. He kept it on an equal plane in comparison; render to Caesar ( or government) and render to God; this means we can be committed to both, or be involved with both; we do not have to section ourselves off from Caesar or from government. Why should we " Render to Caesar", or government, and not be involved in picking or electing who will be Caesar, or president? What kind of sense does that make? Render is " Giving to, paying attention; its a commitment." Jesus is teaching that we can pay attention to government, we can give to government or be involved; we can vote if we want to. Jesus did not teach us not to vote. That is not in scripture. I don't know where we got that from. And let me apologise again for seeing this differently, I mean no discord. Jesus taught this plain and clear, he did not try to persuade his people to not be involved in government.
You clearly have little interest in what God says on this matter and would rather keep your own doctrine, despite the scriptures that emphatically declare you a liar.
Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;
Also, God does care about the governments of the world and who rules them, HE APPOINTS THEM:
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power BUT OF GOD: THE POWERS THAT BE ARE ORDAINED OF GOD” (Rom. 13:1).
Is that a high enough authority for you mickiel? GOD?
What did Jesus say concerning Ponteious pilot, who was a governing power at the time?
“Then said Pilate unto Him, speak you not unto me? Know you not that I have power to crucify you, and have power to release you? Jesus answered, You could have no power at all against me except it was given you from above; therefore he that delivered Me unto you has the greater power” (John 19:10-11).
As Ray has said and this speaks directly to YOU mickiel.
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"GOD IS A STICKLER FOR DETAILS
God doesn’t only know the big things, like when you were to be born and when you are to die, but God know everything in between our birth and death.
Just because God counts islands and whole nations as tiny drops or particles of dust, does not mean that He is not also aware of droplets of water and particles of dust (Isa. 40:15). Jesus said: "But the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matt. 10:30).
Do you realize what that statement means? If your hairs are all numbered, then God must know and take note every time ONE FALLS OUT, for the number then changes.
"Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? And one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father?" (Matt. 10:29).
Surely from these we can understand and believe that God truly does rule over His creation down to the very smallest of things. People often state that God is just not interested in such small things of life. Not true. God is more than just aware of all things, but rather God has created this world and all that in it is, for a grand purpose. No detail is too small in the ultimate working out of that purpose.
Do scientists send men to the moon without first working out the minutest of details regarding the rockets and landing craft? Is anything too small to consider when operating on the human brain or heart? Just remember that God created the entire universe out of things too small to even been seen. God is not limited to "reading us like a book." Oh no, it is God who wrote our book!"
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-D.html
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Sorry Mickiel, but you're just plain WRONG.
ONCE:
"...to the intent that the living may know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomsoever He will..." (Dan. 4:17).
A SECOND:
"...and seven times shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomsoever He will" (Ver. 25).
A THIRD:
"till you shall have known that the heavens do rule..." (Verse 26).
A FOURTH:
"...seven times shall pass over you until you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives sit to whomsoever He will" (Ver. 32).
A FIFTH:
"...and I blessed the Most High and I praised and honored Him…and He does according to HIS WILL in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth and NONE can stay His hand..." (Ver. 34-35).
A SIXTH:
"...And he was driven from the sons of men, and his heart was made like the beasts… till he knew that the Most High God ruled in the kingdom of men, and that He appoints over it whomsoever He will" (Dan. 5:21).
Go ahead Mickiel, tell God He doesn't appoint the kings of these kingdoms. Tell Him He doesn't work ALL THINGS (including kings) after the council of His own will. TELL HIM He CAN'T. TELL HIM HE WON'T. TELL HIM HE DOESN'T CARE! CALL HIM A LIAR!! Hold on to your man made doctrines for all the good it will do you.
The king’s heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers [rillets—small brooks] of water: He turns [directs] it whithersoever he will [desires]” (Prov. 21:1).
In Christ,
Alex
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Just because God is aware of the details of the human body, or the number of hairs that are on your head, does not mean he sits up there and counts each one that falls off; it just means he is able to take care of you; if he takes care of birds. It means humans are more important to him than birds, it does not mean he is a stickler for details. What good does it do anything for God to know how many hairs are on your head? It just means God can be uniquely conscious of a person, " if' he wants to. But God is not a control freak, and he does not want his people to be control freaks either, telling people they can't vote. What's next, telling me I can't wear purple clothes? Trying to control who I talk to about God? Telling me I can't go swimming and giving me some kind of spiritual reason I can't swim? I don't care how many names I am called here, nobody can tell me I can't vote, and try and give me impression that its biblical, when it is not. Trying to make things spiritual, that have nothing to do with spirituality. If I am to incline my heart to Gods ways, then simply show me in scripture where God or Christ has commanded that I do not vote. I know what you believers are saying, but show me where God said it. Show me where God said do not witness about him? Show these things to me! Then, show me where I have to do what a group of believers are saying to do. God's precepts revive me, not the precepts of a group.
I know how to walk in the world of men and not be a part of their religious ways; voting has nothing to do with religion. We have a right to vote, and no group of believers can take that right away. When God helps a person, no group can disgrace that person. If I disagree with something, that does not make me some kind of infidel; I am not a liar if I don't see something exactly as you do! I believe what most of you believe, but I understand what I understand; now if you don't like that understanding; what? Cut my head off? Ban me? Call me names? Is all that of God? Good grief.
There are many things God cares about, and many things that he doesn't. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that statement.
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mickiel, you are not hearing/understanding anything that is being said, you are obviously not like minded with us here. This discussion has become pointless.