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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Jeff on October 01, 2015, 10:43:35 PM
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I know that God speaks to us primarily through the Scriptures, but I was wondering if anyone has the occasion to know when God is prompting them, or maybe put more aptly, do you ever know the difference between your own thoughts and when God might be saying something to you directly? I apologize if this naive but I don't have a clear understanding. God is mostly silent in this age and while I pray about it constantly, I've never been sure if God would even be talking to me, or prompting me to think about something. God is logical, and so logically, I suspect that the thoughts in my head are my own. I hope this makes sense.
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I know that God speaks to us primarily through the Scriptures, but I was wondering if anyone has the occasion to know when God is prompting them, or maybe put more aptly, do you ever know the difference between your own thoughts and when God might be saying something to you directly? I apologize if this naive but I don't have a clear understanding. God is mostly silent in this age and while I pray about it constantly, I've never been sure if God would even be talking to me, or prompting me to think about something. God is logical, and so logically, I suspect that the thoughts in my head are my own. I hope this makes sense.
Hi Jeff, this is an interesting subject.
I believe that part of how God instructs us is by slowly giving us the ability to discern between good and evil. The grace of God by way of His spirit teaches us to deny ungodliness and shows us what is good and right to do. There is a big difference between the thoughts of men and the thought of God but slowly our thoughts are transformed as our minds and hearts are changed until we come to that measure of stature of the fullness of Christ. To make it painfully obvious in the differences of thought just think of what the carnal mind desires and does and compare it to the mind of Christ. Now you know the difference between your thoughts and God's.
Hebrews 5:13-14
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Speaking of David:
2 Samual 14:16-17
16 For the king will hear, to deliver his handmaid out of the hand of the man that would destroy me and my son together out of the inheritance of God.
17 Then thine handmaid said, The word of my lord the king shall now be comfortable: for as an angel of God, so is my lord the king to discern good and evil: therefore the Lord thy God will be with thee.
1 Kings 3:5-12
5 In Gibeon the Lord appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee.
6 And Solomon said, Thou hast shewed unto thy servant David my father great mercy, according as he walked before thee in truth, and in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee; and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou hast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day.
7 And now, O Lord my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in.
8 And thy servant is in the midst of thy people which thou hast chosen, a great people, that cannot be numbered nor counted for multitude.
9 Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and evil: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?
10 And the speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing.
11 And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;
12 Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.
I do believe this is how the spirit of God works in us, that still small voice--Giving us the ability to discern between good and evil.
1 Kings 19:9-12
9 And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the Lord came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?
10 And he said, I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake:
12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.
By way of the holy spirit we begin to understand what God is teaching us (discerning between good and evil) and so we can see where God is indeed 'prompting' us because without Him we could never have been drawn this close.
God bless,
Alex
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I've never heard an audible voice from God 'prompting' me to do anything, though I have "heard" a "voice" on many occasions.
To add to Alex's post:
We're told to ask for wisdom. I'd give you that as a short-cut, but it's really no short-cut at all. Because the Lord will give wisdom in His own time and in His own way. Sometimes it may be with an open bible, and sometimes it won't. Patience and long-suffering are fruit of the Spirit.
"Wisdom is justified of her children." Put another way, wisdom is made to be wisdom by its results.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
I'll give you another short cut that isn't a short-cut at all either. If what I am thinking is different than what I have been thinking, is it better? If it is, then it is of God. That has 'worked' for me a number of times, but often takes a while before it becomes evident whether or not is really IS better.
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Hi Jeff, like the others were saying I think that God's Spirit works in us as discernment, and that is not through the 5 senses, but in the mind. It's effects how we think and reason and our attitude. It is the carnal mind decreasing and the mind of Christ increasing.
John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
I think it is a slow process, I don't remember really having a sense of the Spirit working for a long time after my eyes were opened to this truth. But we must constantly feed the Spirit within, that it may grow strong in us.
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world."
What I believe Christ is saying here is that just as physical food nourishes our physical body, so spiritual food, that comes from Christ, nourishes us spiritually.... and that comes from study of the Word, meditation on the spiritual and pray. The more we dwell on spiritual matters, the more we come out of the world.
Php 4:6 Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God;
v. 7 and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
v. 8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Kat, Dave, Alex,
Thanks for your input, it's much appreciated.
The Holy Spirit is quick to let me know when I'm being carnal. God has done much in me over the years to correct my behavior and "...make straight my paths..." Prov 3:6.
This is probably closer to what you wrote Dave "the still, small voice." But it's more than that too. Literally - many, many times, every single day, I ask God to fill my heart with His desires and my mind with His thoughts for me. I think walking in the Spirit requires that. But the past 6 months of my life have been uniquely difficult. Everyone's are, I just mean, something is going on that I don't quite understand yet.
I have this thought stuck in my head, and it's the first thing on my mind in the morning and the last thing at night. I'm trying to kill that thought and am not having success. I pray about it dozens of times a day. It's really more of a hope, that I want to go away. It's not something carnal, rather it would be a gift from God (that only He could give), but all things being equal, I don't think God would want this for me, but it's just a guess and I may not understand.
I just can't figure out if the thought is from God, the Adversary, or something that's just mine alone. It's tormenting me, but it also may be there for a purpose. We all talk about long-suffering and that's something that I'm not good at, and this thought may be there in order for me to be tried in the fire - more.
I pray for wisdom, peace of mind, God's direction, that God would remove the thought, or help me understand it, but it continues without much change.
That's when I go back to asking for God's will in my life and leave it at that.
But I think when our hearts are right, and we understand that only God's will matters, it's ok to ask for something specifically. I recall Ray saying in one of his studies "Ok, God, If you want me to move to Mobile, then help me find a house that's just right" (paraphrased probably) and then he found that house a few minutes later.
I miss Ray.
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Hi Jeff
When I read the contributions to this thread, I was amazed by the “co-incidence” of having been semi-awake early this morning and having thoughts running around my brain, as the saying goes; I had been dwelling on the prodigal son parable which I referred to in a recent post on spiritual death. And also to thoughts I had earlier expressed about Elihu’s address to Job – now to be found in the “general discussions”.
With the mention of Solomon and his experiences, I once again am pondering the methods whereby God, who is spirit, communicates with our spirit…..influencing our thought patterns.
1 Kings 3:5 In Gibeon the Lord appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee.
I do not imagine that God appeared as an “apparition” at the foot of Solomon’s bed, speaking audibly - although the KJV use of the word “said” tends to imply that. It tells us that Solomon had a dream and by means of communication to and with our spirit/mind, which God knows how to employ, Solomon was able to request from God.
This reminds me of Elihu’s address to Job, where he mentions a similar situation…..about the “voice of God”.
Job 33:12 Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man.
Job 33:13 Why dost thou strive against him? for he giveth not account of any of his matters.
Job 33:14 For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not.
Job 33:15 In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;
Job 33:16 Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction,
Job 33:17 That he may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man.
As I had mentioned, on numerous occasions, after having read and contemplated some of Ray’s articles/transcripts prior to retiring to bed - the next morning, as I am slowly awakening, I have had a clarification come to me at times, of what I had been reading and thinking about the previous day/evening.
So I wonder, seeing that correction/instruction (Job 33:16) can be “transferred” to man’s mind, then why might not the same means be used for clarification and also transference of thoughts such as Solomon’s in seeking for wisdom. God, the father of spirits, (Hebrews 12:9) the Creator of spirits, must be the “Expert” in communicating with us, in directing our thoughts as we volunteer to be led by Him. God “looks upon the heart”….not like a surgeon about to perform literal surgery, but He knows our thoughts and desires.
Mat 6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
Ray told us that he “prayed without ceasing”, as he went about his daily routine, explaining that his thoughts were “attuned to God”. That’s a good habit to follow.
When I think back to the parable of the prodigal son, I thought about the man “coming to himself”. What made him analyse his wretched predicament ….his own “cleverness”? Don’t think so - it was his own cleverness which got him into the mess in the first place. We know in the parable that his physical father was a type of God the Father; we also know that our road to repentance has its starting point with God opening our eyes…..our “spiritual eyes” - and in granting us repentance. We just aren’t able to do it by ourselves. It needs an “outside/external” spiritual influence working on our spirit/mind.
Philip 2:13 For it is God which worketh [Greek energeo = is active and efficient] in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Our wills are being “worked on” by God….I feel that is by means of a “Spirit to spirit connection”. And that “small voice of God” is there if we are sensitive and volunteer to respond to it.
It is miraculous how God unifies us in spirit, as we strive, desiring to become the "bride", with our thoughts in agreement with the "bridegroom". No other mix would endure. Colin
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Colin,
I really appreciate what you wrote and I identify with the way you think. Those early morning hours must be a time when we're not so concerned about "self" and possibly more open to God's prompting. I'm constantly trying to stop focusing on "me" and be connected to our Creator, but it's a fruitless effort on my own. God drags me before I finally understand. The flesh is such a hindrance.
I think about the story of Job often. It's a good lesson from the physical perspective, but it also reminds us of Jesus' tribulation.
We're reminded that we have ministering Messangers in our midst,
Luke 10:40 "For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over you, to keep..."
Hebrews 4:7 'Of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire.”'
Psalms 34:7 "The angel of the LORD encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them."
When God creates a being who in part is intended to share God's instruction with us, we can be sure that He's always watching over us.
As God said and you referenced:
Matthew 6:8 "Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."
This is something I think about every day. Do I need to pray for something specific when God knows far better what I need? Probably not, although I think it's possibly more a matter of faith, and hope is an important aspect of our faith.
Hebrew 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
I think this probably refers to salvation primarily but we can apply Scripture in all areas of our lives.
I think you're right that God works in us in a number of ways, Scripture, our thought life, in the circumstances we experience, the people who cross our path, and probably far more than I know.
I think it's profound in the way God chooses to impact our lives. It seems rare that He just directs our thoughts, but rather chooses to bring us through the challenges He sets before us - trying us through fire. It makes sense to me that rather than skirting around some issue, He wants us to experience, and sweat through the obstacles.
God is perfect and just.
It's interesting to me that the more I seek God, the more He uses the early morning hours to instruct me, and let me know that He's there. it's becoming a very important time in my day.
Our Creator is so much more than we can possibly understand and yet He desires to bring us into His family. We were created for the express purpose of being part of Him. I can't imagine anything more important.
I think one reason God gives us a spirit (other than it makes us alive) is that it's the way He communicates with us.
It's all so perfect, that it makes me want to hide out of shame in my carnal nature, but I also know that He wants us to "draw near to Him"
James 4:8 "Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded."
Being unified with God, I think, is our sole purpose.
Peace,
Jeff
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Hi Jeff,
I find God teaches me things in scripture , through Rays writings and my experiences in life, I think when one has thoughts about sins in their life or when we are doing things that don’t lead to spiritual life I believe those thoughts are prompted by the Holy Spirit.
I feel that my sins are a great part of my relationship with God, first the physical then the spiritual, we start off with a carnal mind, the carnal mind hates God, wants to be in charge, a god until itself.
It takes a miracle by God for us to not want to be a god until ourselves, God walks us out of carnality and as He does this we become aware of our sins and this is our relationship with our creator.
Now we desire not to sin and so we put forth the effort only to discover we are powerless to live righteously before God, God makes sure we understand this, remember, no one can boast.
When scripture says put on the mind of Christ, it does not happen all at once, its God who puts on the mind of Christ in us by the Holy Spirit who prompts our thoughts and then one discovers its God teaching them.
When I’m angry with someone, the carnal mind wants revenge, but when my thoughts are about forgiving that person and I start to think I am no better than that person and that person is under the same law as me, cause and effect I know this is the Holy Spirit leading me in those thoughts.
God is God, He can teach us by any means, I find all the circumstances in my life God uses to teach me, to get me to think about what I’m doing, why I’m doing it and leads me in a better way than I could ever lead myself.
Through this process we decrease and He increases and God becomes the God in our temple but this takes a life time Jeff, its all done in Gods time, and that teaches us patience to wait upon God.
Whatever I’m going through I have to go through it, there are many things I don’t want to go through but its those things that teach me the most.
There is only one way and that is Gods way except here its Gods way and there is no highway, God rules us through our circumstances.
P.s. just when you think you got it together you screw it up and God lets you know He gets it together for you, He will cause His to follow. :)
God bless.
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Amen brother! You have the Spirit of God guiding you. :)
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I just can't figure out if the thought is from God, the Adversary, or something that's just mine alone. It's tormenting me, but it also may be there for a purpose.
It really doesn't matter in the long run. Don't stress out about it because that is something that the adversary can do.
It's simple. God is either in control of everything that happens to you, every thought that you can think and everything that you do or he is not in control of all these things in your life. Which one of these opposites is true? That, I believe is what it means to have child like faith. Since God IS in control of everything that happens to you, every thought that you think ect, then all the hand wringing is unproductive and harmful.
If you think about it, since God is our Father just what do we have to worry about? Not only is God our Father but our elder brother is always making intercession for us before the throne of grace and mercy. Does a little child holding to his Father's hand worry about all these things? We are little children and our Father is holding our hand. Whatever we do or think God is in control even if we drift off into disobedience from time to time. In the end it will all be good.
Easier said than done I know because even your stressing about these things right now is part of God's plan [right now] for you and even admonitions to the contrary won't bear fruit for you until it's your time to understand it and walk in it. The areas you struggle with are probably areas that I don't and the things I struggle with are things that you don't have a problem with. It's all of God and will all be good in the end. It is enough.....
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It's simple. God is either in control of everything that happens to you, every thought that you can think and everything that you do or he is not in control of all these things in your life.
That’s really where its at. Do you believe the scriptures.
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I just can't figure out if the thought is from God, the Adversary, or something that's just mine alone. It's tormenting me, but it also may be there for a purpose.
It really doesn't matter in the long run. Don't stress out about it because that is something that the adversary can do.
It's simple. God is either in control of everything that happens to you, every thought that you can think and everything that you do or he is not in control of all these things in your life. Which one of these opposites is true? That, I believe is what it means to have child like faith. Since God IS in control of everything that happens to you, every thought that you think ect, then all the hand wringing is unproductive and harmful.
If you think about it, since God is our Father just what do we have to worry about? Not only is God our Father but our elder brother is always making intercession for us before the throne of grace and mercy. Does a little child holding to his Father's hand worry about all these things? We are little children and our Father is holding our hand. Whatever we do or think God is in control even if we drift off into disobedience from time to time. In the end it will all be good.
Easier said than done I know because even your stressing about these things right now is part of God's plan [right now] for you and even admonitions to the contrary won't bear fruit for you until it's your time to understand it and walk in it. The areas you struggle with are probably areas that I don't and the things I struggle with are things that you don't have a problem with. It's all of God and will all be good in the end. It is enough.....
I believe the Scriptures.
Is God in control of my stress or am I? :)
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Hi All
We have all read Paul’s account in Romans 7, where in verses 14 through to 24, we can “hear” him expressing his frustration at how he battles with the things he has a natural tendency to do, versus what he knows are the godly pursuits. He echoes exactly what we encounter and how we feel. Not one of us is any different, since we all possess carnal nature and a spiritually feeble heart.
I checked the Concordant version but found it was no better than the KJV….many stilted expressions, so maybe we can express it better in our own modern day speech…..exactly as Jeff and others have done, in sharing our exasperation and dissatisfaction with what we keep doing and/or thinking.
If Paul spoke our language he would be saying much the same as we do….such as “I know what I ought to be doing, and thinking; I should be feeling confident that God will “see me through it all”- but somehow negative ideas keep overwhelming me”.
We’re in the “same club” as Paul. He was reacting the same way as we do…you can hear him, in utter frustration, saying, “what a miserable wretch I am…how am I ever going to rise above behaving this way”?
Some might wrongly conclude he felt he had a “split personality” and dismiss him as schizophrenic. There is indeed a battle for our minds and our innate carnality is hostile towards God. Realising this led Paul to ask in anguish, where’s the way out of this for him… and for us?
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
His answer? It’s in the next verse.
The idea of “split personality” might be a legitimate description. We all have our carnality, however those of us being “worked with” by God are in now possession of another spirit dwelling within us. And one is “at war” with the other. The good news is, we know which one is ultimately going to be the victor.
Php_1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [Greek epiteleo = fulfil completely] it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
What makes it “uncomfortable” is that we are the battleground. And won’t it be a relief when “peace” is declared? And peace is going to be established….by the Peacemaker.
I was looking at what Paul wrote to the Ephesians, who were basically Gentiles. We can view them as a parable, in a way….let me explain why I think that way…
They, in their unconverted state, like everybody, were aliens toward God and His ways. Paul reminds the saints in Ephesus that they, too, used to be opposed to God…..in other words, carnal.
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation conduct in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
“Children of wrath”…..that involves enmity, as I am beginning to see it. Paul goes on to say (verse 13) that Jesus Christ is the One who abolishes such enmity……in stages. Then I kept reading…..
Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
What is the “twain”? Commentaries answer “the Jew and Gentile”. But, what can those two (twain) represent?
I see it as the two natures….of the “true Jew” – the one who is one inwardly (Romans 2:29) as compared to the nature of an unconverted carnal mind (represented by the hostile Gentile).
Eph_2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Christ is going to reconcile both - the “twain”…..not just physical races, but I think,(as a parable) the natures represented by them; by subduing and conquering the hostile carnal nature in all and bringing all into unity with God’s spirit.
The enmity (the carnal spirit) is to be slain……put to death…. Another aspect of “spiritual death”.
We are to become transformed from our “allegiance to” the world and its carnal values.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Jas_4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Who does the transforming/renewing? The Peacemaker and (through Him) access by the Holy Spirit to the Father (Ephes. 2: 15, 18).
Hope that “stitches together” a few thoughts, and provides an opportunity to “unearth some more scriptural gems”. ( Pardon the mixed metaphors.) Colin
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I just can't figure out if the thought is from God, the Adversary, or something that's just mine alone. It's tormenting me, but it also may be there for a purpose.
It really doesn't matter in the long run. Don't stress out about it because that is something that the adversary can do.
It's simple. God is either in control of everything that happens to you, every thought that you can think and everything that you do or he is not in control of all these things in your life. Which one of these opposites is true? That, I believe is what it means to have child like faith. Since God IS in control of everything that happens to you, every thought that you think ect, then all the hand wringing is unproductive and harmful.
If you think about it, since God is our Father just what do we have to worry about? Not only is God our Father but our elder brother is always making intercession for us before the throne of grace and mercy. Does a little child holding to his Father's hand worry about all these things? We are little children and our Father is holding our hand. Whatever we do or think God is in control even if we drift off into disobedience from time to time. In the end it will all be good.
Easier said than done I know because even your stressing about these things right now is part of God's plan [right now] for you and even admonitions to the contrary won't bear fruit for you until it's your time to understand it and walk in it. The areas you struggle with are probably areas that I don't and the things I struggle with are things that you don't have a problem with. It's all of God and will all be good in the end. It is enough.....
I believe the Scriptures.
Is God in control of my stress or am I? :)
Good question, would you believe me if I said both. we do have our role too. Although we are not responsible we are accountable. :)
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Colin - What you wrote was very well thought out. I'm going to do some reading along the same line. I appreciate you sharing that.
Just a few thoughts about this thread:
I do understand that we aren't to just float along expecting God to do everything. We have to treat people with respect, be as obedient as possible, read Scripture, pray, etc. We have responsibilities (or accountabilities I suppose it would be) and Scripture is clear about that - we have to "try". But I wonder if being accountable necessarily involves controlling how we feel.
I'm genetically predisposed to certain traits. The more scientists and doctors learn about the human brain the more they find that we aren't always "choosing" to "think" or "be". Our bodies are controlled by chemical and electrical processes. When the chemicals aren't functioning then the electrical impulses are affected. I'm not saying that we aren't accountable - we certainly are - but God created us - uniquely. Have you ever tried to get a song out of your head? Often the harder you try the more annoying it becomes. I don't have Schizophrenia so I can't say what it's like, but from what I do know, those who do have it, don't want it. Their ability to function in this world is seriously diminished.
We have control over our attitude (most of us) but depression, and other forms of mental illness, affect the way a person thinks, and can have a great deal of influence on behavior. I've been dealing with clinical depression for 40 years, and it certainly has had an impact in my life. It's controlled for the most part but I'm still very aware of it. God could heal that but hasn't. He could heal all of our illnesses, but He doesn't. We're to live with them and accept them for what they are, and we have to accept that some people in the world, even though trying to walk with God, are disabled. Our God is patient with us, thankfully, but I often wonder if my ability to hear God's voice (not-out-loud) is impaired because of the depression.
Philippians 4:6-7 doesn't necessarily say "don't be anxious". In the KJV they use the word "careful" instead of anxious. Anxious, for some reason, sounds like a choice, but it's not always a choice. Anxiety arises from hormones like adrenaline and cortisol, that are related to stress. If those chemicals aren't functioning they way they're supposed to, it's pretty difficult to fight them. Impossible, really, because that's what those hormones are for - they control "us". They're designed to do that. If they aren't working they don't control us in a good way. I think that the word "careful" likely has a different connotation.
If I'm "care"ful of nothing as the KJV says I think that "can" be a choice. For example, I shouldn't care whether I'm financially wealthy, as God provides all. All things "...are out from Him..." John 16:28 and I would venture to guess mental illness would be included. How do our brains become this way, if we don't come out from God, in this manner?
Our time is short, we're vapor (James 4:14), but it sure doesn't feel short. And it only is when compared to eternity.
Sorry. I didn't mean for this to be so long.
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Philipians 4:6 says and means:
Do not worry about anything CLV version
As supported by other Scriptures that say for us not to worry because we cannot change the color of our hair or our height, by our own thoughts.
The Great God controls all. The Scriptures say little birds do not die without His leave.
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Worry isn't necessarily correct either.
Matthew 6:31 (KJV) uses the same Greek word for "thought" that is used for careful and anxious.
Therefore take no thought (merrimnao). I don't have access to a Concordant interlinear at the moment but I'd be curious as to the Greek word "worry" comes from.
Regardless, I stand by what I said. Mental illness impacts your ability to think clearly.
Careful it is.
I believe that until you need compassion, you can't possibly know how to be compassionate. The same goes for mental illness.
John,
If you're suggesting otherwise, then we can have an awesome discussion.
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Worry isn't necessarily correct either.
Matthew 6:31 (KJV) uses the same Greek word for "thought" that is used for careful and anxious.
Therefore take no thought (merrimnao). I don't have access to a Concordant interlinear at the moment but I'd be curious as to the Greek word "worry" comes from.
Regardless, I stand by what I said. Mental illness impacts your ability to think clearly.
Careful it is.
I believe that until you need compassion, you can't possibly know how to be compassionate. The same goes for mental illness.
John,
If you're suggesting otherwise, then we can have an awesome discussion.
I wasn't suggesting anything. I simply stated thoughts from the Scriptures. And, no, I do not want to have an awesome discussion. They usually make me want to spiritually barf.
I was just calling to mind the Scripture that old Ray the Roofer quoted in his article Praying By God's Rules from the CLV, Do not worry about anything.
I find great peace from that Scripture from God, once you get a good translation.
Below is the statement from Roofer Ray at the end of his article.
Anyway, I often pray myself to sleep just giving God thanks for my many blessings. Here is one of my favorite Scriptures, and it just happens to be on proper prayer and meditation:
"Be rejoicing in the Lord always! Again, I will declare, be rejoicing! Let your lenience be known to all men: The Lord is near. DO NOT WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING, but in everything, by prayer and petition, WITH THANKSGIVING, let your requests be made known to God, and the peace of God, that is superior to every frame of mind, shall be garrisoning your hearts and your apprehensions in Christ Jesus.
For the rest, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is grave, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is agreeable, whatever is renowned—if there be any virtue, and if any applause, be taking these into account. What you learned also, and accepted and hear and perceived in me, these be putting into practice, and the God of peace will be with you" (Phil. 4-9, Concordant Literal N.T.).
Ah, yes, "the God of peace will be with you." What more do we want? Really: what more do we want? I can swap war stories regarding my past life with the best of you, but to now know that "the God of peace will be with you" is the thing that makes it all worth it. Don’t hesitate to thank God for your trials and tribulations and persecutions—they are qualifying you for the incorruptible and immortal Kingdom of God. Answered prayer is a major proof that God exists and that God loves. Obey God’s rules governing prayer, and you too will begin to experience God’s intervention into your life. And finally, the second shortest verse in the Bible:
"Pray without ceasing" (I Thes. 5:17)!
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Matthew 6:31
(KJV+) ThereforeG3767 take no thought,G3309 G3361 saying,G3004 WhatG5101 shall we eat?G5315 or,G2228 WhatG5101 shall we drink?G4095 or,G2228 WherewithalG5101 shall we be clothed?G4016
(ABP+) Do notG3361 thenG3767 be anxious!G3309 saying,G3004 WhatG5100 shall we eat,G2068 orG2228 whatG5100 shall we drink,G4095 orG2228 whatG5100 should be worn?G4016
(BBE) Then do not be full of care, saying, What are we to have for food or drink? or, With what may we be clothed?
(CEV) Don't worry and ask yourselves, "Will we have anything to eat? Will we have anything to drink? Will we have any clothes to wear?"
(Darby) Be not therefore careful, saying, What shall we eat? or What shall we drink? or What shall we put on?
(DRB) Be not solicitous therefore, saying: What shall we eat: or what shall we drink, or wherewith shall we be clothed?
(JUB) Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, With what shall we be clothed?
(KJV) Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
(LEB) Therefore do not be anxious, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear?,'
(LITV) Then do not be anxious, saying, What may we eat? Or, what may we drink? Or, what may clothe us?
(Murdock) Therefore be not anxious; nor say, What shall we eat, or what shall we drink; or wherewith be clothed?
(WNT) Do not be over-anxious, therefore, asking 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?'
(YLT) therefore ye may not be anxious, saying, What may we eat? or, What may we drink? or, What may we put round?
Philippians 4:6
(KJV+) Be carefulG3309 for nothing;G3367 butG235 inG1722 every thingG3956 by prayerG4335 andG2532 supplicationG1162 withG3326 thanksgivingG2169 let yourG5216 requestsG155 be made knownG1107 untoG4314 God.G2316
(BBE) Have no cares; but in everything with prayer and praise put your requests before God.
(CEV) Don't worry about anything, but pray about everything. With thankful hearts offer up your prayers and requests to God.
(Darby) Be careful about nothing; but in everything, by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God;
(DRB) Be nothing solicitous: but in every thing, by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your petitions be made known to God.
(JUB) Be anxious for nothing, but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known unto God.
(KJV) Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
(LEB) Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
(LITV) Be anxious about nothing, but in everything by prayer and by petition with thanksgivings, let your requests be made known to God;
(Murdock) Be anxious for nothing; but at all times, by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, make known your requests before God.
(WNT) Do not be over-anxious about anything, but by prayer and earnest pleading, together with thanksgiving, let your request be unreservedly made known in the presence of God.
(YLT) for nothing be anxious, but in everything by prayer, and by supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known unto God;
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;D ;D ;D
Thanks Dave. It sounds like all those Scriptures say Do Not Worry About Anything.
Roofer Ray was on to something.
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Jeff...I posted those to clarify what the words were and gave it in various translations. I THOUGHT I was adding to what you said. I wasn't trying to 'preach' to anybody.
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Jeff -
It is much more difficult to express clearly our thoughts and intentions in writing than it is when we speak face to face.
I do not believe your original post was addressed completely.
I believe Dave in Tenn provided clarity to these verses.
I believe John from Kentucky stressed the need not to worry.
To go back to your original post regarding our thoughts -
The Scriptures state that our thoughts (and steps) are directed by The Lord Himself.
I believe that this applies for all human beings in every age, and not His Elect Called Out Ones in this current age.
Even when our thoughts go from here to there, and we say to ourselves, where did that thought come from, our thoughts are still directed by Our Heavenly Father.
I constantly ask The Lord to judge my heart (motives) and confirm to me if they are pure and pleasing to Him; and if not, I ask Him to purge them from my being.
I understand that our motives dictate our thoughts, which dictate our conversations and actions.
So if our motives in our hearts are pure, it logically follows that our thoughts should be pure.
But, we are still a work in progress and sin from time to time; even though we desire not to - and we need to repent of our impure desires and thoughts and forgive all others, and ask Our Heavenly Father to forgive us and cleanse us.
I understand that we are all from time to time in a situation we do not want to be in - and we cry out to Our Lord and Saviour to release us from it - and it does not happen.
It is His Will be done - and we do not always understand why - but I believe we will ultimately understand why we were placed in these hurtful and painful situations.
I hope I have addressed some of your concerns about our thoughts.
In Holy Spirit.
Kind Regards.
George.
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Hi Jeff, John, Dave, George and all other members
George is quite correct, in that “It is much more difficult to express clearly our thoughts and intentions in writing, than it is when we speak face to face”. Being aware of that, I always ask God to put the “right words” into my thoughts as I type, because I do not wish to give offence.
We all have varying backgrounds and experiences and these do contribute to the manner in which we react and respond to one another. Jesus Christ had a “motley bunch” of disciples, who differed from each other and to whom He gave instruction. We would be well advised to consider what He told them.
Mat 18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
Mat 18:2 And Jesus called a little child [Greek paidion = half grown boy or girl] unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
In our dealings with each other, that does not mean we should use “baby talk”….it is the attitude of a “paidion” that we are to display, one of humility. Any semblance of giving offence is to be avoided.
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Who are these “little ones” who believe in Christ? The ones we are to avoid offending? They represent our brothers and sisters who come to this forum for instruction, clarification, discussion and sharing.
Mat 18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
When Jesus said “woe”, I am sure He meant He would be displeased with those giving offence. For that reason, I feel that we ought to “take a breath” before putting fingers to keyboard, to consider the impact our words might have.
Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Ray often explained what Jesus meant about “cutting off your hand or foot” (or fingers) if they cause offence.
Mat 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
The message I get from those verses is that we should treat our fellow contributors,(who can be likened to “these little ones”) with love, one towards another. In other words, the opposite of despising. Where is there any place for harshness? The more experienced members should be better able to set a righteous and humble example.
Sadly, as Jesus said, “offences must come”….and they do. We need therefore to be on guard against being numbered amongst those who offend…
Paul also was mindful of this weakness, which we all have….
Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
Act 24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.
He said he had to “work at it” (exercise myself) - a lesson for us too.
And it covers all cases - whether dealing with Jews, Gentiles as well as the ones who are of the church of God……which we are claiming to be.
1Cor 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
1Cor 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
Our curriculum now includes learning to encourage, not to disparage. We are in training for the opportunity to be assistants in the millennial age, where the job will include managing all kinds of people, with all kinds of impairments, backgrounds, degrees of ignorance, personality variance. Right now all of us have weaknesses and some strengths; the forum can be a vehicle whereby we can sharpen up skills that we will be called upon to put into practice, later on. Let us treat each other as “fellow teachers in training” with dignity and love. Otherwise we might be vainly displaying our supposed knowledge, in much the same way as did the Pharisees.
Let us think before we type! Better still….ask God to “clean up our thinking” and attitude before we lift a finger to type. Remember what Jesus said about “cutting off our hand”. I have just read this back to myself and, with God’s help, will do my best to do what I am encouraging everybody else to do. Colin
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"THE KISS OF DEATH"
[Is your love pure or fake?]
I hear a lot of "huggie huggie kissie kissie" pious platitudes from the mouths of today’s religious hobbyists. Personally, it makes me a little ill in my midsection. Most of it is as phony as a three-dollar bill. Could you be guilty of using this emotional charade to deceive those you wish to impress?
There is nothing wrong with hugs, as I am quite fond of them myself. And there is nothing wrong with proper kissing. Paul instructs the assemblies to greet each with "an holy kiss" four times, and Peter instructs its use once, as a "kiss of charity."
The Greek word used is "philema." A "holy" kiss is merely a pure, sacred, ceremonial kiss—a simple kiss. Men no longer kiss men as a form of greeting non-family members in most western cultures—I’m personally kinda glad of that!
People also engage in "hugs and kisses" in their speech and writing. And this too can be fine and acceptable depending upon how it is done. At sixty-five, I still put a few xxxx’s and oooo’s at the bottom of a birthday card to my wife.
However, there is another way that hugs and kisses are used and overdone in which it is a camouflaged front to mask the real person that is no more holy than was Judas.
Had the twelve other Apostles already received the Holy Spirit of God, they would not have had to ask Jesus "who" is was that was about to betray Him—they would have known. Thank God that it is not possible to "deceive the very elect" (Matt. 24:24).
Like Satan’s ministers of righteousness (II Cor. 11:15), these deceivers are wolves, but they don’t come as wolves. These false teachers and deceivers:
"…come to you in SHEEP’S clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves" (Matt. 7:15).
But you could spot one of these "wolves" a mile off, couldn’t you? Just look for the GIANT TEETH that Little Red Riding Hood encountered, right?
"O foolish Galatians, who has bewitched [Gk: ‘to fascinate by false representations] you…" (Gal. 3:1).
The "wolves" COME IN SHEEP’S CLOTHING! You don’t see their teeth. They don’t show their teeth. They only show you a huggie huggie kissie kissie pious religious smile. THAT my friends, that pious front, IS the "sheep’s clothing." Wolves BITE, and their bite can be deadly:
"But if you bite and devour one another, take heed that you be not consumed one of another" (Gal. 5:15).
Now then, where are we to find these "wolves and sheep’s clothing" coming with hugs and kisses to deceive and devour? Well, wherever the SHEEP are found.
"For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous [savage] wolves enter in among YOU, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men [and women] arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them" (Acts 20:29-30).
Didn’t we all witness this ourselves in recent months? Are all the wolves gone now? Of course not—there will always be wolves wherever there are sheep.
I’m warning you: Wolves come in "sheep’s clothing," full of smiles, and hugs, and kisses. You will not see their teeth until it is too late.
Judas was a wolf in sheep’s clothing. The apostles saw a sheep—Jesus saw a wolf. What was Judas’ ultimate sheep’s camouflage? Why, wasn’t it a simple, sincere, pure, godly "kiss?" Think again.
"Now he that betrayed Him give them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, the same is He: hold Him fast. And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed Him" (Matt. 26:48-49).
You have all seen this drama acted out many times in films—a simple little peck on Jesus’ cheek. Oh really?
The five Scriptures using the word "kiss" from Paul and Peter, always used the Greek word "philema" which means "kiss" and nothing else. In Luke 22:48 we read this:
"But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betray you the Son of man with a kiss [Gk: a simple ‘philema’ kiss]?"
But in Matt. 26:48, we find something totally different. Judas told the elders and chief priest:
"…whomsoever I shall [PHILEO—passionate fondness] kiss, that same is He…"
Judas did not have a "philema" kiss in mind at all. The "kiss" in Matt. 26:48 is a "phileo" kiss, and it means a fond, affectionate, passionate kiss, not a simple "philemo kiss." And the elders and high priest knew the different in these two words. One was a peck on the cheek, but Judas determined to use a more a passionate, huggie huggie kissie kissie display in his attempt to betray Jesus to the devouring and ravaging wolves.
This is really intriguing stuff. Now after Judas tells the priest and elders what kind of a kiss he will give Jesus [a phileo kiss] to betray Jesus, He actually delivers this kiss. And how does he do that? He does it with yet another Greek word for kiss, which is, "kataphileo" mean "to kiss EARNESTLY."
This "kataphileo kiss" is used three other times in Scriptures:
Luke 7:45—"You gave me no kiss [no affectionate ‘phileo’ kiss, Jesus admonishes His disciples] but this woman since the time I came in has not ceased to kiss [‘kataphileo kisses’—earnestly] My feet."
Luke 15:20—"And he [the prodigal son] arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him [earnestly and passionately with a ‘kataphileo kisses’]."
Acts 20:37—"And they all wept sore, and fell on Paul’s neck, and kissed him [with ‘kataphileo kisses’ of great passion and earnest]."
Is it not abundantly clear that this super emotional use of hugs and kisses was used only on the most RARE occasions of deep and profound emotional circumstances? But this is not proper conduct for everyday behavior. See these over-pious charlatans for what they are. Be suspect of those who use super-pious and sanctimonious hugs and kisses every day of the week.
Now to the Judas Kiss of Death:
"And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, Master; and KISSED HIM."
The Greek is "kisses"—multiple kisses, with ‘kataphilio kisses, just as we find in every single use of this word in Scriptures I showed above.
No, Judas did not betray Jesus with a peck on the cheek; he deceitfully delivered a "huggie huggie kissie kissie, fraudulent hugs and KISSES OF DEATH!
What must we learn from all this? Whenever we pretend to be Christ-like but it’s all a charade, we too are guilty of giving Christ a Judas kiss of death. What a disgusting display of the carnal mind and flesh, Judas has left us. Some have vengeance in their heart, others vanity, others bitterness and hatred, and yet others uncontrollable sins of the flesh, but they try to camouflage their evils with a plethora of hugs and kisses to all.
Don’t be afraid to hug; don’t be afraid to kiss, but beware of such phony displays of pious emotions, as they could be your "KISS OF DEATH."
A spiritual hug to you all, from my heart,
Ray
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I'll end with this:
These 'verses' I don't see as "commandments" to be followed for fear of punishment. I see them as promises. The Father is essentially telling me, "I've got it all under control. Live." I didn't want to (nor do I now) turn these into meat for a theological discussion.
A new vision of the future lifted my depression and cynicism in one night. I still 'have it' (depression) and they still are a comfort to me. That's what I see, and I don't have any desire to un-see it.
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Well John, I note your rapid and barbed reply. That really is a fine article of Ray’s, which you chose to post and I have read it several times.
I wondered why it was that you selected it to form your response. Several ideas came to mind: that you considered that what had been proposed – to exercise and show love towards others, rather than cause any discomfort or offence - was somehow “contrived” and a false kind of affection; that is the subject matter of Ray’s article. You appear to be insinuating that such an approach is one which you feel is not befitting for the forum.
Again, with no accompanying comment from you, it is hard to draw a definite conclusion.
Then again, I wondered if you were upset by the idea suggested - of treating each other respectfully, as we share ideas, may not align perfectly with yours. Not knowing your personal background, all I can go on is the impression which you create, namely of a man soon given to being irritated.
What other possibilities might there be, I asked myself. Perhaps it is one of you being “well versed” in many (all?) of Ray’s writings and you felt that somewhere in this article there was something that needed to be said in relation to this thread. You did not elaborate.
I read Ray’s article yet again and I found an interesting number of thoughts towards the end of it….such as :-
What must we learn from all this? Whenever we pretend to be Christ-like, but it’s all a charade, we too are guilty of giving Christ a Judas kiss of death. What a disgusting display of the carnal mind and flesh, Judas has left us. Some have vengeance in their heart, others vanity, others bitterness and hatred, and yet others uncontrollable sins of the flesh, but they try to camouflage their evils with a plethora of hugs and kisses to all.
The idea of camouflage is an interesting one. Particularly if it involves, as Ray listed, feelings of vengeance, vanity, bitterness, hatred. These are all opposites of genuine love….agreed?
Then I reread your response and thought, how much could I discern in what you contributed this time? What percentage seemed to be composed of love - as against, say, vengeance, vanity, bitterness? What score would you give yourself? Tell us your motives….I shall not attempt to do so on your behalf…..
If I am “reading you wrongly”, then I apologise - but we are told we should discern correctly.
Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Could you provide me with some clarification, so I may understand your response better? Thank you Colin
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Where is there any place for harshness? The more experienced members should be better able to set a righteous and humble example.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. And I think that perhaps we need to be reminded of something that Paul said as well:
1Co 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
If we understand any of the deeper truths that God has revealed to us through Ray's teaching, in the end it's still God who has enlightened us. We can take no credit for any of the understanding that we have. I think we need to keep in mind that all sorts of people are on this forum and read the forum as guests. Those that are more learned and understand some of the deeper truths need to be cognizant that their are people here still coming to grasp with things that others now take for granted. We all struggle with different things and truly we are all in this journey of faith together. We shouldn't be a hinderance to others but a help.
Certainly at times Christ used sarcasm to the religious potentates of his day and Ray also used sarcasm towards those who were intentionally obtuse and who were steeped in hypocrisy. But the vast majority of the people that come to this forum certainly need to be treated with respect and understanding. If you understand something that I don't then it's God who gave you the understanding that he has not yet given me. In time God may give me the same understanding as well. There is no room for haughtiness or superiority one over the other imo.
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Thanks for your comments on the risks of hurting or offending others here, Jeff, Colin, and Arion. As I’ve mentioned one time before, in the short time that I’ve been communicating on the forum, I’ve also been struck by the harsh tone of some of the comments, and find it hard to understand why we would want to use such language with brothers and sisters in Christ (as opposed to what we might do in ancient times with the Pharisees or now with the modern-day apologists for the churches of Babylon). I don’t know about anyone else here, but I don’t know any of the other members of the forum personally, and so don’t know much about their relative strength or weakness in the faith; thus, I would want to be very careful about not offending them or weakening their faith:
Romans 14 (AKJV)
14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way. 14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of: 17 for the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. 18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. 20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. 21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. 22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
I Corinthians 8 (AKJV)
8 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. 2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him. 4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. 8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. 10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; 11 and through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. 13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
As I’ve also written a few times before in private messages to a couple of other members, people here sometimes seem to take offense at the comments of other members, and the others seem to genuinely not know why they felt that way. In my opinion (and it’s only an opinion, because I don’t pretend to know what they’re thinking, nor have I asked them), I think it can be mainly due to what they perceive as the tone of the comments, rather than what is actually written. Part of the problem, maybe, is the mode of communication on internet forums—using the written as opposed to the spoken word. I’m sure that each has its advantages and disadvantages, but one problem with writing, I think, is that it can be misinterpreted so easily because the participants aren’t able to see each others’ expressions and gestures or hear their tone of voice. Thus, what may have been intended as a humorous comment can be taken totally seriously, or something offered in a warm spirit of trying to be helpful can be seen as blunt, uncaring, cold, or critical. One way of describing it would be as an example of the “process” of communication being so much more important than the “content.” Unfortunately, when writing, it’s hard to have much process because all that the written word usually lends itself to is content (unless, I suppose, a lot of effort is made by each writer to carefully explain each comment that could possibly be misinterpreted, which can obviously be very difficult and time-consuming).
So, I think that it might be helpful if we try to make an effort to be mindful of how the people to whom we’re writing might possibly construe some of our statements, even if we think that we ourselves might never perceive them in such a way. I really think that it might help us to avoid a lot of misunderstandings, conflict, and hurt feelings.
Your brother in Christ,
Randy
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Dave,
I owe you an apology. I read what's his name's response and made an assumption. I hope you'll forgive me.
Jeff
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I have read through the comments and watched as feelings were hurt. I have only to remind everyone that rebuke, reproof, correction, all these things are not without there proper place but are necessary. They are as necessary and important as loving one another. Jesus didn't just rebuke the pharisees, He rebukes the entire church in revelation, He rebukes us, He corrects us, He chastens us, He loves us (among other things which He does). These are all components of His love. Remember that we are to be like Jesus.
Proverbs 27:5-6 Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
Proverbs 28:23 He that rebuketh a man afterwards shall find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
God bless,
Alex
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I have read through the comments and watched as feelings were hurt. I have only to remind everyone that rebuke, reproof, correction, all these things are not without there proper place but are necessary. They are as necessary and important as loving one another. Jesus didn't just rebuke the pharisees, He rebukes the entire church in revelation, He rebukes us, He corrects us, He chastens us, He loves us (among other things which He does). These are all components of His love. Remember that we are to be like Jesus.
Proverbs 27:5-6 Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
Proverbs 28:23 He that rebuketh a man afterwards shall find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
God bless,
Alex
:)
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Dave,
I owe you an apology. I read what's his name's response and made an assumption. I hope you'll forgive me.
Jeff
Don't worry about anything. ;D
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The Father is essentially telling me, "I've got it all under control. Live."
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The Father is essentially telling me, "I've got it all under control. Live."
Hi Largeli,
I would say in our strength we are weak but in our weakness we are strong and in His strength we live.
Good to hear from you again my brother.
God bless you, seriously, God bless you and everyone here. ;)
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Thank you for that, Rick.
God bless you, too.
Sincerely,
Randy