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=> Testimonies / Prayer Requests / Fellowship => Topic started by: Lupac on December 08, 2009, 07:58:53 PM

Title: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 08, 2009, 07:58:53 PM
Quite frankly, I'm terrified. I have all these doubts and fears. I realize now that I never really "loved" God, I just served Him because I was afraid of what He would do to me if I didn't. I'm still very afraid of hell. I don't know what to do about it. (I don't believe it, but it still scares me.) I worry about other things too. I worry that maybe the Bible isn't real, as in, maybe there isn't a God, I worry that if I think the wrong thing, God will put me in hell, and I just want it to stop. Can anyone help me?
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: lilitalienboi16 on December 08, 2009, 08:09:35 PM
Quite frankly, I'm terrified. I have all these doubts and fears. I realize now that I never really "loved" God, I just served Him because I was afraid of what He would do to me if I didn't. I'm still very afraid of hell. I don't know what to do about it. (I don't believe it, but it still scares me.) I worry about other things too. I worry that maybe the Bible isn't real, as in, maybe there isn't a God, I worry that if I think the wrong thing, God will put me in hell, and I just want it to stop. Can anyone help me?

Then worry, worry about it, think about it. You'll get tired of all of that eventually and you'll decide to make a decision on what you do believe in and when you finally do that, you'll embrace it and have some peace of mind. All of this is what i would like to call a "necessary evil." You'll be fine though, either way, whatever you decide! The Truth is constant and never changing, regardless of what we surround ourselves with both mentally and physically. Yea.. you'll be just fine!

God bless,

Alex
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: mharrell08 on December 08, 2009, 08:25:54 PM
Quite frankly, I'm terrified. I have all these doubts and fears. I realize now that I never really "loved" God, I just served Him because I was afraid of what He would do to me if I didn't. I'm still very afraid of hell. I don't know what to do about it. (I don't believe it, but it still scares me.) I worry about other things too. I worry that maybe the Bible isn't real, as in, maybe there isn't a God, I worry that if I think the wrong thing, God will put me in hell, and I just want it to stop. Can anyone help me?


You've got to live your life Bryant...no one here can live it for you.

Faith is when one believes and trusts in God...but it's a gift (as you are finding out firsthand) that can only come from God. No one can conjure up faith for themselves or anyone else. God has to GIVE it. You will not have peace until God grants you faith, this may seem unsettling but it is true.

Ask God for faith and piece of mind...what do you have to lose?


Marques
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Phil3:10 on December 08, 2009, 09:22:25 PM
Lupac,
I don't know that any of us can help you. I do know that GOD can always help any of us. Remember, GOD has you where HE wants you and I feel sure HE will bring you the peace you need and want so much. Anything that I might say will only be words but HIS word is healing and peaceful. Dwell on HIM, cast your cares to HIM, and HE will help you.
In HIM,
Phil3:10
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Samson on December 08, 2009, 09:34:35 PM
Quite frankly, I'm terrified. I have all these doubts and fears. I realize now that I never really "loved" God, I just served Him because I was afraid of what He would do to me if I didn't. I'm still very afraid of hell. I don't know what to do about it. (I don't believe it, but it still scares me.) I worry about other things too. I worry that maybe the Bible isn't real, as in, maybe there isn't a God, I worry that if I think the wrong thing, God will put me in hell, and I just want it to stop. Can anyone help me?


You've got to live your life Bryant...no one here can live it for you.

Faith is when one believes and trusts in God...but it's a gift (as you are finding out firsthand) that can only come from God. No one can conjure up faith for themselves or anyone else. God has to GIVE it. You will not have peace until God grants you faith, this may seem unsettling but it is true.

Ask God for faith and piece of mind...what do you have to lose?


Marques

Bryant,

               Listen to what Marques said above, eventually you will overcome these fears in God's timeframe of things. Your only 18, you probably have alot of experiences ahead of you, both Good and Evil, that is how we are being created in God's image, you are the Clay and God is the Potter, He will fashion you according to His plan. If it's any consolation, I went through a period of time where I feared God was going annihilate(nonexistence), instead of Eternal Punishment. This took place after leaving the JW'S, eventually God delivered me from that state of mind and before I knew it, I was reading at Bible-Truths. It would be beneficial for you to read, if you haven't already, Ray's Articles on Hades, Sheol, Gehenna, The Lake of Fire series and the article; Is Everlasting Scriptural. These are all found at the front page of this Site. Hang in there and continue your Fellowship with those(that's us) who don't subscribe to a Eternal or Everlasting punishment of any kind.

Kind Regards, Samson.
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: soberxp on December 08, 2009, 09:49:43 PM
hi  Lupac

I dont worry about hell(not because I will go to heaven).I worry sometimes as you,because einstein's relativity and Difficult to imagine that modern science and technology what almost Can do anything,such as something in bible,hard to tell how modern science and technology Can do that.

Finaly,i realise GOD is true,cuz here http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,10924.0.html (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,10924.0.html),and god also has sense of humo(cuz he created the world),why we never saw god's sense of humo in bible,cuz bible was written by human,as us cant fully understand GOD,but I don't doubt the word in bible,We are what we think, having become what we thought and written.there will be an effect from different points of view.
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Kat on December 08, 2009, 10:05:47 PM

Hi Lupac,

You have to start somewhere in your quest for understanding and God has brought you here, that you might find the truth and peace.  Right now you are in church with your parents and I'm sure you have heard your fair share of sermon designed to install the fear of hell in you, that's what the church does.  You have been indoctrinated, that's what hearing all those sermons does.  It is going to take a lot of effort on your part to undo all the falsehoods you have been taught.  It's all of God, but it does require effort on our part.

Php 2:12  Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

You have to do it, but most important of all is HOW we are able to do it.

v. 13  for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Here is an excerpt from the article 'THE ORIGIN OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT.'

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-C.html --------------------------------------

Most theologians are clearly deceived, however, not all are ignorant. Many theologians know at least some of the material I am presenting to you. But they don’t want you to know or understand any of it. It has been the purpose of the ruling privileged elite to keep the masses at bay by evil indoctrinations, deceptions, and gross fear.
v
There are countless Historians who have clearly come to see the fraudulent origins of most of today’s religious doctrines (Christianity first and foremost).

And it is EGYPT that is the originator of these gross and evil doctrines of eternal torture after death of the souls which supposedly cannot die.
v
The whole thing is designed for effect, to influence the multitude, to restrain their passions, and to aid the magistrate and ruler in keeping them subject to authority. It is the invention of priests and lawmakers, who take this as the easiest method of governing the people. They claim the "right divine" to govern; claim that their laws originate with the gods, as we have shown above; and that, therefore, the gods will visit on all offenders the terrors and tortures of the damned. Hence, through the joint cunning of priest and legislator, of church and state, mutually supporting each the other, we have all the stupendous frauds and falsehoods respecting the invisible world."
v
"My people have been lost sheep: THEIR SHEPHERDS HAVE CAUSED THEM TO GO ASTRAY…" (Jer. 50:6).

"The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means and My people LOVE TO HAVE IT SO…" (Jer. 5:31).

Unbelievable… UNBELIEVABLE. I watch ministers on television use, and abuse, and accuse their congregations, over and over again. And do they get up and walk out? NO… they APPLAUD That’s right, they applaud the abuse of their ministers. "The priests bear rule by their means [by their forced coercion], and they LOVE TO HAVE IT SO…"
v
It means that virtually everything about Christendom—from its name ‘Church,’ to the architecture of their buildings, to the origin of their holy days and doctrines, is all straight out of heathenism, of which God Almighty declares:

"LEARN NOT THE WAY OF THE HEATHEN… inquire NOT after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? Even so WILL I DO LIKEWISE" (Jer. 10:2 & Deut. 12:30).

All Christian doctrines that are not out of paganism are nonetheless, unscriptural.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I put this here from Ray's article so that maybe you can begin to see where all your fear is coming from, the church.  If you must continue to attend, understand what you are being taught and refuse to be lead astray any longer.

Rom. 10:17 Now faith comes from hearing, and hearing by THE WORD OF GOD.  

It is imperative to keep reading in God's Word on a daily bases, prove ALL things (1Th 5:21). All truths must have a second witness in the Scripture and there are no contradictions in the Scriptures.  Studying the articles BT will give you a lot of valuable information, Ray has done countless hours of research to put these articles together.

But as Marques was saying, remember that the faith you need so badly, is only received as "A GIFT FROM GOD" (Eph. 2:8-10).  So pray for God to grant you faith.  I will be praying for you also.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Linny on December 09, 2009, 12:11:47 AM
Hi Lupac,
I am so sorry about your worries and how you are feeling now. Please know that God is there and He knows exactly how you are feeling too. For some reason, He wants you here right now. He must have some amazing plan that requires it. So rejoice in this season and thank Him for the work He is doing in you even now.
Also, as Kat said, FEAR is the way of the world. Not just the church but EVERY SINGLE HUMAN INSTITUTION uses fear to gain control over us. The government, the medical establishment, schools, the workplace, etc. etc. Fear is the best way to make us sheep follow the wrong path. One thing I learned years ago was to never make a decision based on fear.
Do you have E-sword? Do a study on fear and read all the Scriptures that teach of it.
I believe the Bible tells us not to fear 365 times. Interestingly, one for each day of the year.

Praying for you!
Lin
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Roy Coates on December 09, 2009, 01:19:08 AM
Pray Pray Pray for guidance. Study Study and Study to find the truth. I'll be praying for you and with you. Peace, Roy
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 09, 2009, 01:55:44 AM
Thank you all. I'm going to sleep now, I'll reply more fully tomorrow.
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Roy Martin on December 09, 2009, 08:56:07 AM
Hi Lupac,
 Well I can see from your post and all the replies that God is guiding you. Its just a matter of Gods time, and you learning also in His time and growing in faith as the fear will certainly disappear. You aren't the first nor the last to have these doubts and fears that God purges from us. Ive definitely gone through this, and many more present issues with more to come. We die daily to live in Christ, and its Him that does the killing.

Peace
Roy
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Amrhrasach on December 09, 2009, 04:42:06 PM
Quite frankly, I'm terrified. I have all these doubts and fears. I realize now that I never really "loved" God, I just served Him because I was afraid of what He would do to me if I didn't. I'm still very afraid of hell. I don't know what to do about it. (I don't believe it, but it still scares me.) I worry about other things too. I worry that maybe the Bible isn't real, as in, maybe there isn't a God, I worry that if I think the wrong thing, God will put me in hell, and I just want it to stop. Can anyone help me?

So often these days I so do hesitate to post and the reason is very simple.  Unlike most who are qualified in offering roast, I can only offer a sampling of milk.  But your post struck me and so I offer something to you to consider in your current struggle, as my own is similar.

“because I was afraid of what He would do to me if I didn't.”

Pro 1:7  The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Psa 119:120  My flesh trembleth for fear of thee; and I am afraid of thy judgments.
 
Keep it in mind and may God allow the fear be placed in manner of wisdom.  You’re among good company.


“I'm still very afraid of hell. I don't know what to do about it. (I don't believe it, but it still scares me.)”

A myth dis-assembled and lying in ashes, as you recognize and know.    

1Co 15:55  O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

1Ti 2:4  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 

Rejoice.


“I worry that maybe the Bible isn't real, as in, maybe there isn't a God,”


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.0.html

“I’ll show you why this is so important, because if Jesus Christ was the Son of God.  If Jesus Christ died and was resurrected from the dead.  If that is a historical fact.  THEN YOU CAN BELIEVE ANYTHING THE MAN SAYS!  Anything and everything, you see.  Now let’s zero in on that a little bit.  Paul says;

I Cor. 15:5  and that He was seen of Cephas, then by the Twelve.
v. 6 Then He was seen of five hundred brethren at once,
v. 7  Afterward He was seen by James, then by all the apostles.
v. 8  And last of all He was seen by me also,

So Paul saw Him.  This is the Man they killed!  HE WAS DEAD!  Paul said, I SAW HIM.  Peter saw Him - the Twelve saw Him - 500 at one time saw Him.  Paul said most of those people were still alive and you can go and ask them.  Now he’s just talking about 500 people he knows of specifically.”
   L. Ray Smith

Joh 20:27  Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Rom 10:17  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Joh 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 

Sometimes our spiritual fingers are in our spiritual ears. Pray God allows you to use those fingers to thrust them into the wound as was necessary for Thomas, and for me also.

Has not everyone on this forum also at one time or another believed and also fought, on the same spiritual ground?    You are amongst good company of those who have built their house on a better foundation.   So build your house with confidence.

I am all too familiar with your spiritual fight, Lupac, and so very often of late find
myself also questioning God’s existence, his love, his plan, his knowledge, his wisdom, his mercy, and this:

Pro 16:9  A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps. 

It’s a struggle like no other, at least for me.   We all, before, have placed our confidence in trinkets of “spiritualism” and come to believe we are strong.  It’s a false confidence.  When he begins to smash those trinkets the beast within us seems to come alive with renewed strength.

Rev 13:4  And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 

I’m becoming to come of a mind to believe that the Lord knows just how very clever our individual beast can be when roused by the truth, and how deeply rooted our pride when the routing begins, and then he uses adequately measured means to bring us to a specific low point before he can move us to greater things.

Psa 116:6  The LORD preserveth the simple: I was brought low, and he helped me.

Pro 29:23  A man's pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.

Mat 21:44  And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. 

I remain astounded at my own pride and even so at his mercy.

Psa 6:2  Have mercy upon me, O LORD; for I am weak: O LORD, heal me; for my bones are vexed.

Psa 66:20  Blessed be God, which hath not turned away my prayer, nor his mercy from me. 

Stay strong Lupac.  You’re among those who understand.

Eph 3:12  In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

Gary
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 09, 2009, 06:09:13 PM
Okay... Thank you all. I guess what I don't understand is, why do so many Christians want "hell" to be true. Some of them, from what I see, wish it wasn't true, but preach about it because they're afraid of it, while others seem to take... delight in it. I, just want to do the right thing and love God and others around me. I don't want to go to hell, but I'm so afraid I will, because I have done this or that thing "just right". I'm afraid of other people going to hell too. I need to reread some of your replies. I believe Jesus Christ has the power to save all men. I guess I just need God's help.
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Kat on December 09, 2009, 07:23:29 PM

Hi Lupac,

It would do you a lot of good to read through Ray's articles on hell.  He will answer every conceivable question you have about hell and what the Scriptures really say.  There is quite a few articles (that I have listed the links below) and they have lots of details that really will answer all of your questions.  You have right here at your finger tips the answers that will give you peace, so do read through them.  If you have any questions after that, you can be assured we will be right here for you.

16. A.  Hell: Sheol Translated Grave http://bible-truths.com/lake16-A.html
     B.  Hell: Sheol Translated Hell  http://bible-truths.com/lake16-B.html
     C.  Hell: The Origin of Endless Punishment  http://bible-truths.com/lake16-C.html
     D1 Hell: The Christian hell is a Christian HOAX  http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D1.htm
     D2 Hell: Tophet and Molech in Hinnom  http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D2.htm
     D3 Hell: The Sermon On The Mount is for You  http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D3.htm
     D4 Hell: Gehenna Fire Judgment   http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm
     E.  Hell: Hades and the Second Death  http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm

mercy, peace and love
Kat
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 10, 2009, 12:54:08 AM
Thanks, I'm still working my way though them. Did Ray ever post his paper on the tektonics site that "refuted" him? I noticed not many people who try to "refute" him use scripture, just their own ideas, and ideas of others (Church fathers, theologians, etc.) I think that says a lot right there. I'm still, so afraid, but I think God is helping me through it. I go from one thing to another very quickly in my mind. First I'm worried that God won't save everybody, then I worry that I'm going to hell, (Why, I don't know.) then I worry that maybe parts of the Bible aren't inspired, then I worry that God isn't even real.

>_>

I'm making my life a living hell. I don't want to anymore, but I can't seem to help it. I feel horrible all day. (You know that feeling you get, like when you hear a big crash and you're worried that maybe, someone you love could be hurt or worse? I feel like that all the time.) All I can do is try to force myself on the truth and pray. I don't want to turn this topic in to a huge "woe is me" kind of thing. So I guess I'll stop. (There's a lot of reasons for the way I act, I just don't really want to talk about them, out loud. Anyone who would like, if you don't mind, to talk to me can PM me.)
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: tamaralv on December 13, 2009, 08:54:45 PM
Lupac,

I too have very little to offer you in the way of "meat", it's Spam at best!  lol  I don't post often (although I'm on the site most days) and I can only offer you this because I recognize the pain in the words you wrote.  You are NOT alone in what you are going through.  Most of us can understand, first hand, the turmoil and upset that you are right now experiencing.  I just implore you not to be discouraged because there is the Light at the end of this (John 14:6).  This is just one of many experiences you'll have and we must in all things give praise and Thanks to our Father and Creator (Phil 4:6-7).  He has All in His control, Lupac, and whatever experiences you are having at any particular time, He has you in mind.
I love the Psalms and one of my favorites for times of trouble is Psalm 46.  I pray you can find some comfort in this.

1a  God is our refuge and our strength, a very present help in trouble.  2  Therefore we will not fear, even though the earth be removed, And though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea; 3  Though it's waters roar and be troubled, Though the mountains shake with it's swelling.  Selah 
4  There is a river whose streams shall make glad the city of God, The holy place of the tabernacle of the Most High.  5 God is in the midst of her, she shall not be moved; God shall help her, just at the break of dawn.  6 The nations raged, the kingdoms were moved; He uttered His voice, the earth melted.  7 The Lord of hosts is with us; The God of Jacob is our refuge.  Selah
8 Come, behold the works of the Lord, Who has made desolations in the earth.  9 He makes wars cease to the end of the earth; He breaks the bow and cuts the spear in two; He burns the chariot in the fire.  10 Be still, and KNOW that I AM God; I will be exalted among the nation, I will be exalted in the earth!  11 The Lord of hosts is with us; The God of Jacob is our refuge.  Selah

My heart goes out, along with my prayers for you, Lupac.  Listen to Marques and the others and pray for God to give you the answers and knowledge you seek and don't be afraid.  May you soon find your Peace (John 14:27).

Peace and Love in Christ Jesus,

Tammy

Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 15, 2009, 12:33:21 AM
Thank you Tammy. I'm doing a little better. I didn't really want to say this, but it's been bothering me a lot lately. I... have really bad obsessive compulsive disorder. (I know people throw around the phrase "OCD" all the time, because they have some weird tick. I don't like it, but I can't change it.) I get, thoughts I my head, horrible thoughts that repeat over and over. (First person that says it's a demon get my fist in their face. (j/k)) Anyway, the thoughts mostly have to do with Satan, not because they have anything to do with him, but because when I was little, and to a certain extant now, he was what I feared most. (Besides going to hell.) Anyway, I'll get thoughts in my head like, (Man, I don't like to even type this...) "Satan is god." or sometimes, like when I'm praying, it'll repeat like I'm praying to... someone else. >_>

It bothers me a lot, like, the more I try to now think about it, the more I end up thinking about it. I've prayed and prayed to God to forgive me. But I still worry. My old doctor (I've been struggling with this for a year now.) taught me ways to make it stop, but I don't like doing it. (It involves repeating the thought, out loud, to myself.) I guess me point with all this is, God isn't angry with me because I can't seem to make myself think right, is he? Thanks.

(I also worry that these thoughts are true, i.e. "Satan really is in charge/god." or "You really are going to hell." or worst of all "When you think something like that, you really mean it/doing it." I know it's irrational, I just need to work things out...)
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: G. Driggs on December 15, 2009, 02:26:57 AM
I... have really bad obsessive compulsive disorder. (I know people throw around the phrase "OCD" all the time, because they have some weird tick. I don't like it, but I can't change it.) I get, thoughts I my head, horrible thoughts that repeat over and over.

It bothers me a lot, like, the more I try to now think about it, the more I end up thinking about it. I've prayed and prayed to God to forgive me.

I can totally relate to what you are saying Lupac, because I go through the same thing. I never knew it might be OCD till you mentioned it, I just thought I was just more evil than most or something. These horrible thoughts that I cant even repeat here have tormented me for a long time, but since I have been studying Rays papers, studying the Scriptures, praying always, it has become less and less. I have come to the conclusion I'm really not in control of anything, including my own thoughts, and sometimes that is really frustrating, but I acknowledge Him and just give up and try to quite worrying about too much.

Hang in there Lupac, He will grant you self control, but it seems to be a slow and often painful process, but well worth the wait. Keep in mind, God made us the way we are, as He has every right, and He will make us new into something better in His time.

Peace, G.Driggs
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Roy Martin on December 15, 2009, 10:09:00 AM
Hello Bryant,
   Just imagine yourself being in a boxing ring with God in your corner, and there is Satan in the other corner all by himself under Gods authority, and he can't throw any punches unless God lets him. The thing is its not imaginary because this is just the way it is, and God is not going to let Satan destroy  you or anyone. Satan is only a sparing partner in Gods training in this life for all of us. Each time we knock him down the stronger we get, and the weaker he gets.We will be the champions.
 Do you know that you can run faster and hit harder when your afraid? Kind of strange isn't it?
When you are weak, He is strong.

Peace
Roy
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 16, 2009, 01:26:26 AM
One thing I have trouble with is not seeing Satan as an "fallen angel". Satan, to me, always seemed so powerful because he made himself evil by himself. (According to orthodoxy, which I was always taught.) I get thoughts like, when I'm praying to God, or just saying "Thank you God", it'll like, repeat in my head only it'll be "Thank you Satan." I hate it, and I hate myself. I've wanted to die so many times in the past, just to escape the horrible way I live. I'm not as bad now, but I'm not doing as well as I have before. I'll be okay, I'm going to go back over my doctor's notes. I'll be okay. I'm just also worried that maybe, this sounds crazy, that these thoughts are true. I know they're no, I just need someone to tell me they're not. (Satan's not god.)

And Driggs, I feel for you. Christians (Really strict, ETers mostly.), statistically are at a much higher "risk" for OCD, depression (Which I also exhibit.), and other mental problems. I really think that the teachings of the church are to blame.
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Dave in Tenn on December 16, 2009, 02:13:25 AM
Hey Bryant...that's the point.  These thoughts AREN'T true!  You are largely correct to lay much of the blame at the door of church doctrine.  They are so completely nonsensical and evil, that those who barely believe can skim along pretty well, and those who believe the strongest are nearly destroyed by the contradictions.

Let me tell you what will happen if you stay in the Word and in sound teaching.  Your understanding of what IS true will grow.  Your faith to believe it will sprout and grow.  Your ability to conquer doubts will grow.  A 'sound mind' will replace your befuddlement.  The Mind of Christ will gain prominence in your life.  You will become a mature man of God.  You will get soooo past religion and walk in wisdom and light.

We know how all this ends, Bryant.  It ends very, very well!  Between now and then, you're going to go from how you are to how He is preparing you to be.  Along the way, you're going to pick up all the fruit of the Spirit and become Wise through everything you will learn and experience.  You can't have it ALL now 100%.  That's not the way it works.  But there's no such thing as failure.

So, since you made it easy, I'll tell you.  Satan is NOT God.   ;D  There will be a pop quiz on that in a short while, I'm guessing.  So study up.     
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Kat on December 16, 2009, 02:22:51 AM

Hi Bryant,

2Co 10:3  For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh.
v.4  For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
v. 5  casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,

Eph. 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

These are spiritual battles we fight, in the mind, the thoughts, what we believe.  Before we know the truth our minds can be filled with all kinds of wrong thoughts.  But when we are blessed to have our eyes opened and begin to learn the truth, then we need to battle to clean up our thoughts.  We should not allow evil thoughts, "the darkness of this world," to stay in our head, replace it with something positive.

Php 4:8  Finally, my brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are honest, whatever things are right, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report; if there is any virtue and if there is any praise, think on these things.

It make seem daunting at first, but more and more as you remove those wrong thoughts, even just a tiny little bit at a time, well you begin to make progress in the right direction.  It's a process that takes a lifetime to complete, but the sooner you start the better.

Pro 23:7  For as he thinks in his heart, so is he.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

 
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 16, 2009, 06:20:50 PM
One other question. I was reading another topic, and a user (Pax) said that the early jews didn't believe God was perfect, only "more mighty" than other gods. Where is he getting this? Is there any truth in it? Thanks.

(http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2965.60.html (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2965.60.html) Last message, no one responded to him, because the topic was locked. (With good reason.))
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Kat on December 16, 2009, 09:54:31 PM

Hi Lupac,

That is very likely.  When you try to understand the God of the OT (which is all the Jews use) without having been given eyes to see and understand, you see a God that gets angry and changes His mind and all kinds of contradictions.  So it would not be surprising if they believed that God was not perfect. 

When you have your eyes opened, as Ray has explained many times the Bible does not contradict.  To the world the Bible seems like a gaint jigsaw puzzle with missing pieces all over the place, but with truth and understand the pieces start to come together.  Only those that have been given eyes to see are blessed with understanding of the mysteries in Scriptures, as Jesus said.

Luke 8:10  And He said, To you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God. But to others I speak in parables, so that seeing they might not see and hearing they might not understand.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 19, 2009, 02:32:19 AM
I wanted to tell you all that I'm doing a little better. Please pray for me. It seems that once I get one truth down, I worry about another. It's like a never ending cycle. I'm afraid that I don't have real faith, and that, you guessed it, I'll be going to hell for it. I may be afraid of it, but I don't believe it.  :-\ Thank you all.

EDIT: I wish God hadn't hid the truth from all but a few. I used to really respect men like R.C. Sproul and C.S. Lewis. (Well, I still like Lewis, even though he was wrong on so many things, he hated the teaching of hell, but didn't think there was any way around it, from his point of view.) I think, how can men, being as "educated" as those two not see what the simplest can? (I'm not trying to put down Ray, myself, or anyone else, I was just making a point.) It blows my mind.
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: G. Driggs on December 19, 2009, 06:55:00 AM

EDIT: I wish God hadn't hid the truth from all but a few. I used to really respect men like R.C. Sproul and C.S. Lewis. (Well, I still like Lewis, even though he was wrong on so many things, he hated the teaching of hell, but didn't think there was any way around it, from his point of view.) I think, how can men, being as "educated" as those two not see what the simplest can? (I'm not trying to put down Ray, myself, or anyone else, I was just making a point.) It blows my mind.

The reason is simple, and it blows my mind too.

1Co 1:19  It is written, "I will destroy the wisdom of those who are wise. I will do away with the cleverness of those who think they are so smart." (Isaiah 29:14)
1Co 1:20  Where is the wise person? Where is the educated person? Where are the great thinkers of this world? Hasn't God made the wisdom of the world foolish?
1Co 1:21  God wisely planned that the world would not know him through its own wisdom. It pleased God to use the foolish things we preach to save those who believe.

1Co 3:18  Don't fool yourselves. Suppose some of you think you are wise by the standards of the world. Then you should become a "fool" so that you can become wise.
1Co 3:19  The wisdom of this world is foolish in God's eyes. It is written, "God catches wise people in their own tricks." (Job 5:13)
1Co 3:20  It is also written, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise don't amount to anything." (Psalm 94:11)


G. Driggs
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 22, 2009, 11:19:57 PM
Okay, I have another question.  ;) It was brought up in an email to Ray, but wasn't really answered. (At least this point wasn't.) This guy was asking why the apostles would risk (and ultimately lose) their lives to get the gospel out, if they believed everyone would be saved. I know the logic to this is really faulty, and I think it's because that's what God wanted them to do. Also, I feel bad for even asking this and I personally would never do it, but why did a lot of Christians in Rome refuse to deny Christ, and then get put to death, if they believed they would be saved anyway. (Jesus did talk about judgment for those who denied him, (I think.) but not ET.) I'm sorry for asking such a dumb question. But I want to know. Thanks.
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: arion on December 22, 2009, 11:28:41 PM
 
Quote
but why did a lot of Christians in Rome refuse to deny Christ, and then get put to death, if they believed they would be saved anyway.

They are not going to get saved 'anyway' my friend but one way!!  However God has predetermined that all will be saved.  It is much better to be judged now and have your carnal heart burned out of you now rather then later but all is of God.

Consider....

Quote
Php 2:12-13  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

God put a backbone of Iron in the the apostles and they considered their lives as dung and would not deny their Lord after they were all converted.  It was a work of the spirit in their lives as it is in us.  If God does not embolded us we will fold like an accordion as well.  
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 23, 2009, 02:26:55 AM
Thanks for the quick reply. That clears that up for me. I thought of something earlier that really shook me up... It's insane, bit I'm a little worried. Okay, I was reading the last part of the lake of fire series, about infants who die. And I thought, "what if I died as a baby, and everything I'm seeing and going through now is just a test, and it's not real." (Meaning my whole life.) That is crazy isn't it? I kind of scared myself. Thanks. (Damn mental problems.) 
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: darren on December 23, 2009, 02:36:08 AM
Greetings Lupac: Listen, when I first was introduce to Ray's teachings (his papers) I could not truly comprehend the things I was reading. I mean my whole belief system was in doubt. Satan, free will, hell, all being saved. I had to go back and reread Ray;s paper and take my time with them. These questions your asking are a sign that God is working in you, removing the scales (so to speak) from your eyes. Slow down, relax,take a breath.


                                      Darren
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 23, 2009, 12:03:31 PM
Okay, instead of posting my random mental insanity. (lol) How about this, what happens to infants that die. I know Ray "sort of" answered it in this email:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,815.0.html (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,815.0.html)

But, IMO he didn't answer it very fully. What does Isa 65:20 mean? and how does it apply? Thanks.
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Kat on December 23, 2009, 12:23:56 PM

Hi Lupac,

Quote
but why did a lot of Christians in Rome refuse to deny Christ, and then get put to death, if they believed they would be saved anyway.

Arion gave a good answer.  I would just like to mention knowing the rulers at the time were the Romans and the empire had absolute authority requiring obedience and worship by their law. They disliked this new Christian religion as being some kind of threat to their authority.  If people were brought before the courts for any reason and found to be Christians, they would be asked to recant - to deny their faith in Jesus and make a public sacrifice to the Roman gods, thus acknowledging the divinity of the emperor. If they refused, they would be killed. 

Rev 21:8  But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

So what were the writers of the Gospels to do, recant and show reverance to them as gods?  This would be to lie and deny Christ in public for all to see.  Their lives were totally dedicated to serving and obeying what Christ had taught them and spreading this good news.  

Luke 11:33  "No one, when he has lit a lamp, puts it in a secret place or under a basket, but on a lampstand, that those who come in may see the light.

This make seem like a small lie in order to save ones life, but they were looking beyond this life to the kingdom.  They were probably not totally surprised as Christ told them this would happen.

Mat 24:9  "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.

They were the Apostles, their lives were example for all believers to come.

Mark 8:35  For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel's will save it.

Though they carried this to the ultimate literal extreme and was killed for what they believed, we now do this spiritually everyday.

1John 3:16  By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

1Co 15:31  I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.


Quote
And I thought, "what if I died as a baby, and everything I'm seeing and going through now is just a test, and it's not real

Ecc 9:5  For the living know that they will die;
      But the dead know nothing,
       And they have no more reward,
       For the memory of them is forgotten.

They will come up in the resurrection of the dead with everybody else and be judged. 

Rev 20:11  Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
v. 12  And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
v. 13  The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
v. 14  Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
v. 15  And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Only the Elect's name are written in the Book of Life, Christ, all else will go to the Lake of fire, which will be the Elect ruling with Christ on earth. Since they are young they will not be punished, but they will grow up and "learn righteousness."

Isa 26:9  With my soul I have desired You in the night,
       Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early;
       For when Your judgments are in the earth,
       The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 23, 2009, 12:31:50 PM
Thank you Kat. You've been more patient with me and my questions than I thought was possible.
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Marky Mark on December 23, 2009, 02:21:19 PM
Okay, instead of posting my random mental insanity. (lol) How about this, what happens to infants that die. I know Ray "sort of" answered it in this email:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,815.0.html (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,815.0.html)

But, IMO he didn't answer it very fully. What does Isa 65:20 mean? and how does it apply? Thanks.

Lupac,an email reply from Ray. Hope it helps.



http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,201.0.html

Dear Matt:

There are only two resurrection to immortality.

The first is for the chosen elect overcomes explained in part in (I Cor. 15).

 All others--children, criminals, mentally challenged, the many called but not chosen, etc.

In the case with children we are told:  "There shall be no more thence
an infant of days, nor an old man that has not filled his days: for the
child shall die [spiritually die to his carnal mind purged through judgment] an hundred years old; but the sinner being an an hundred years old [and not yet purged of his carnal mind through judgment] shall be accursed [until he IS thoroughly purged]" (Isa. 65:20).

God's judgments are both light and harsh. (See Luke 12:45).

Many will freely enter God's judgments and will then enter into God's realm sooner. The harden criminals will have to be "THROWN into this fiery judgment of the carnal mind and human will which hates the ways of
God. (See Rev. 20:15).

Sorry, but this is a huge subject requiring hundreds of pages to cover the details.

God be with you,

 Ray





Peace...Mark
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Beloved on December 23, 2009, 02:27:19 PM
Bryant, Sorry that you are being tossed too and fro on the sea of life right by so many thoughts.

Obsessive compulsive is a Cingulate disorder, the very part of the brain that allows flexibility ...gets stuck in a cycle. You need to learn to use Prefrontal cortex more. I hope that you are seeing a professional for this , there are self help activities that can help. Also exercise helps increase serotonin. Eating frequent high carb meals and also using tryptophan supplements or eating food higher in trytophan turkey chicken etc also do the same. There are many medications that will also do this.

You need to try you best to focus on ONE thing God is Love  (even if you do not love Him)

Know that He is a Loving Father  

that is why he tells us that we need to be
(2Co 10:5)  Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Jesus told his disciples
(Luk 12:22)  Now He said to His disciples, "Therefore I am saying to you, Do not worry about the soul, what you may be eating, nor yet about your body, what you should be putting on,
(Luk 12:23)  for the soul is more than nourishment and the body than apparel.
(Luk 12:24)  Consider the ravens, that they are not sowing, neither are they reaping, for which there is no storeroom nor yet barn, and God is nurturing them. Of how much more consequence are you than the flying creatures!"

(Luk 12:31)  However, be seeking the kingdom of God, and all these things will be added to you."
(Luk 12:32)  Do not fear, little flocklet, for it delights your Father to give you the kingdom."

Bryant, " you are fearfully and wonderfully made".... that means inside you is a hunger and thirst for God and a wonderment that is making you seek Him.

Our tiny computers made of meat (even when the tape gets stuck  :D) cannot comprehend all that He has in store for us.

Through Him you do have the ability to overcome "these thoughts".  And there is purpose for all of these things.

He told the 12 at the end

(Joh 16:12)  I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

So be patient


Beloved
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Linny on December 23, 2009, 09:50:43 PM
Speaking of prefrontal cortex, my kids have a DS game and my husband bought me the brain games for it. They work the prefrontal cortex as I recall! Plus they are fun  ;D ;D ;D
Lin
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 24, 2009, 02:56:23 AM
Bryant, Sorry that you are being tossed too and fro on the sea of life right by so many thoughts.

Obsessive compulsive is a Cingulate disorder, the very part of the brain that allows flexibility ...gets stuck in a cycle. You need to learn to use Prefrontal cortex more. I hope that you are seeing a professional for this , there are self help activities that can help. Also exercise helps increase serotonin. Eating frequent high carb meals and also using tryptophan supplements or eating food higher in trytophan turkey chicken etc also do the same. There are many medications that will also do this.

You need to try you best to focus on ONE thing God is Love  (even if you do not love Him)

Know that He is a Loving Father  

that is why he tells us that we need to be
(2Co 10:5)  Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Jesus told his disciples
(Luk 12:22)  Now He said to His disciples, "Therefore I am saying to you, Do not worry about the soul, what you may be eating, nor yet about your body, what you should be putting on,
(Luk 12:23)  for the soul is more than nourishment and the body than apparel.
(Luk 12:24)  Consider the ravens, that they are not sowing, neither are they reaping, for which there is no storeroom nor yet barn, and God is nurturing them. Of how much more consequence are you than the flying creatures!"

(Luk 12:31)  However, be seeking the kingdom of God, and all these things will be added to you."
(Luk 12:32)  Do not fear, little flocklet, for it delights your Father to give you the kingdom."

Bryant, " you are fearfully and wonderfully made".... that means inside you is a hunger and thirst for God and a wonderment that is making you seek Him.

Our tiny computers made of meat (even when the tape gets stuck  :D) cannot comprehend all that He has in store for us.

Through Him you do have the ability to overcome "these thoughts".  And there is purpose for all of these things.

He told the 12 at the end

(Joh 16:12)  I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

So be patient


Beloved

I used to go to a doctor. Last year, around this time, I was so bad, I had to quit my job. I would spend all day (six hours or more.) dealing with these/those thoughts. I stopped going because I got better, (Never got well.) and because it cost too much. My doctor was great, he had a PhD in psychiatry, and specialized in OCD treatment. I was good for a while, but never got over it. I have some supplements I've taken, but they too, are expensive. I never really took any medication, and I don't want to. (But a certain illegal green plant seemed to help a lot. Maybe I'll talk to my parents.) I'll just keep praying and trying to ignore them. I would write more, but I have to go to sleep now.
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: darren on December 24, 2009, 03:13:37 AM
Lupac I don't know where you live but some states here in the U.S. the Doctors are allowed to write prescriptions for those little illegal green plants, Or maby it is just one state. I'm not sure.

                                        Darren
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 24, 2009, 06:05:56 PM
One thing that has me a little worried about medication, "natural" or synthetic is the part in the Bible about witches. From what I understand, the word that is translated in the Greek word where we get pharmacy. But also, it seems witches in the Bible used drugs, among other thing to induce visions to gain "secrete knowledge". What exactly is that sin? Is it anything I should be worried about. What about cigarettes? I believe they're not good, but is smoking the same sin as being a witch? Thanks

(I ask here because you know what your talking about. One site I read said "health food" was witch's potions repackaged so Christians would buy it... Ugh.)

EDIT:

The more I think about it, the more I realize it's not the object itself, but the motive. Like in 1 Corinthians, when they were asking about the mean that was sacrificed to idols. From one persons viewpoint, it was only meat, and he wanted food. To another, because it was sacrificed to idols, it was somehow "tainted". Therefor you should not eat. From what I understand, Paul sided with the one who said it was only food, but warned them not to eat it if it caused their brother to stumble. Basically, it what's in your heart. It's not the object, it's the way you use it. Candles are the most used item by "witches", are candles themselves evil? Am I thinking rightly?
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Kat on December 24, 2009, 08:11:46 PM

Hi Lupac,

Rom 14:14  I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Because some use candles in rituals for ungodliness, does not make a candle evil.  I burn candles all the time because I like the scented ones, but that will not conjure up something ungodly because some have used it for that.  Like you were saying, "The more I think about it, the more I realize it's not the object itself, but the motive."

Gen 1:29  And God said, "See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.

I believe we have natural herbs that we can take that will help most of our ailments, if we know which ones to use for what.  This is something that was discussed at the last conference by Dr. Steger, a naturpath.  But medicines that are used to help the body function better are good. Our body needs to be supplemented with minerals and vitamins to keep to working right. IMO I think that inhaling something into the lungs is not a good health practice and a drug that is mind altering I would be leery of, except for severe pain maybe.  Anyway I think it would be good to follow the advice of a good doctor using natural remedies, like herbs and supplements.

Just the way I am looking at these things.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 25, 2009, 02:19:36 AM
Okay, I'm not going to be on here tomorrow, because it's Christmas. I wanted to say, first of all, thank you for your help. I'm going to talk to my parents about maybe some medication, or something, because I'm in pretty bad shape right now. I'm back to worrying that I've committed the "unforgivable sin". Don't worry about responding, I know as long as God is causing me to repent, which I am, that I haven't done it. Thank you for your support.

EDIT: The other thing I'm worried about is that stupid "New Wine" site. The guy's only argument is that God gives us the "free will" to reject Him. I've often thought "We don't have free will, but God allows us to reject Him." But God wills that "All men be saved." So, it's just a matter of accepting God's truth and not man's. Anyway, I just need to stop worrying. (Also, what happens to someone who is a "Christian", but then "rejects" God for whatever reason? Thanks. (I sound like I've learned nothing, I know, sorry.))
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Samson on December 25, 2009, 12:44:11 PM
Okay, I'm not going to be on here tomorrow, because it's Christmas. I wanted to say, first of all, thank you for your help. I'm going to talk to my parents about maybe some medication, or something, because I'm in pretty bad shape right now. I'm back to worrying that I've committed the "unforgivable sin". Don't worry about responding, I know as long as God is causing me to repent, which I am, that I haven't done it. Thank you for your support.

EDIT: The other thing I'm worried about is that stupid "New Wine" site. The guy's only argument is that God gives us the "free will" to reject Him. I've often thought "We don't have free will, but God allows us to reject Him." But God wills that "All men be saved." So, it's just a matter of accepting God's truth and not man's. Anyway, I just need to stop worrying. (Also, what happens to someone who is a "Christian", but then "rejects" God for whatever reason? Thanks. (I sound like I've learned nothing, I know, sorry.))

Hey Jonathan,


I thought you were taking the day off and wouldn't be here, ;D, I'm only Joking with you, don't take it serious, afterall, what better place to be for those who desire to hear the Truth and not the Lie. Consider this regarding your eventual Salvation; Would a Loving God(1John.4:8) who is trillions of more loving than imperfect Humans, His Love being incomprehensible to us Endlessly punish(chastise) us for Finite Sins we committed for 70-80 years of life. That doesn't make any sense, does it. Even the worst of Human Judges wouldn't do that. Will not the Judge of the whole World do what is right. According to Ray, "Judge, Just" means fairness, doing good. There is no amount of sinning that a Human has done or will do that deserves a punishment(chastening) that is endless, meditate on this point and read Emails of Ray where the Emailer asks about Sin And Forgiveness, there's plenty of them. Just type in Sin and forgiveness above where it says search.

                          Hang in there young fellow, Samson.
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Kat on December 25, 2009, 01:15:11 PM

Hi Lupac,

Quote
what happens to someone who is a "Christian", but then "rejects" God for whatever reason?

Christians are the 'called,' only a very few go on to be the chosen.  Christians do have a knowledge 'of' Christ, but He is not 'in' them.  So they have never really known Christ and they are now the Apostate church.

Jude 1:12  These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots;
v. 13  raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
v. 14  Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,
v. 15  to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

It will continue this way for the rest of this age until Christ returns and brings in the new age.  Then will the world's judgment finally comes.

Rev 20:11  Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them... And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:12  And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
Rev 20:15  And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Isa 26:9  ...For when Your judgments are in the earth,
       The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on December 25, 2009, 05:25:27 PM

Isa 29:24  They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.   8)

Arc
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 27, 2009, 07:22:04 PM
Okay, I'm back. Thank you all for your help. I have some more questions.

1. In Hebrews 6:4-6, when it talks about falling away, I've heard it been said that in order for that sin to be forgiven, Christ would have to be crucified once again. Here's what is says in verse 6: (NASB)

Quote
and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

I see nothing in that verse saying that Christ would have to be crucified again to be forgiven. Here's the verse in YLT:

Quote
and having fallen away, again to renew [them] to reformation, having crucified again to themselves the Son of God, and exposed to public shame.

It sounds like, to me, that by falling away, they make a mockery out of the crucifixion, and will be punished for it. It also seems to say that it's impossible for men to renew them to repentance, but all things are possible with God. (Jesus' words, and the fact that Peter "fell away". I sure one could make the case that Peter wasn't "converted" yet, but he walked with Christ, promised to follow Christ to the end, and casted out demons in God's name. Surely he had "tasted" of the Holy Spirit even though he wasn't "converted" yet, right?)

2. It's about the "unpardonable" sin. Yes, even asking forgiveness hundreds of times, I still feel so worried that I've somehow committed it... (And, by extension, am going to hell. (I know. I know.)) One thing is, in Mark 3:29, Jesus refers to it as an "eonion sin". Now, most Bibles translate it as "eternal sin", which kind of scares me. (I know the word "eternal" isn't in the Bible. It's just my inner fear.) But Young (I quote from Young because it's my favorite translation on BibleGateway.) translates it this way:

Quote
but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;'

I assume the word "aion" is in that verse in addition to "aionion" in the Greek. Is that true? If so, why do so many translations leave it out?

Those are my only two questions right now. Thanks everybody.
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: mharrell08 on December 27, 2009, 08:20:40 PM
Okay, I'm back. Thank you all for your help. I have some more questions.

1. In Hebrews 6:4-6, when it talks about falling away, I've heard it been said that in order for that sin to be forgiven, Christ would have to be crucified once again. Here's what is says in verse 6: (NASB)

Quote
and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

I see nothing in that verse saying that Christ would have to be crucified again to be forgiven. Here's the verse in YLT:

Quote
and having fallen away, again to renew [them] to reformation, having crucified again to themselves the Son of God, and exposed to public shame.

It sounds like, to me, that by falling away, they make a mockery out of the crucifixion, and will be punished for it. It also seems to say that it's impossible for men to renew them to repentance, but all things are possible with God. (Jesus' words, and the fact that Peter "fell away". I sure one could make the case that Peter wasn't "converted" yet, but he walked with Christ, promised to follow Christ to the end, and casted out demons in God's name. Surely he had "tasted" of the Holy Spirit even though he wasn't "converted" yet, right?)

2. It's about the "unpardonable" sin. Yes, even asking forgiveness hundreds of times, I still feel so worried that I've somehow committed it... (And, by extension, am going to hell. (I know. I know.)) One thing is, in Mark 3:29, Jesus refers to it as an "eonion sin". Now, most Bibles translate it as "eternal sin", which kind of scares me. (I know the word "eternal" isn't in the Bible. It's just my inner fear.) But Young (I quote from Young because it's my favorite translation on BibleGateway.) translates it this way:

Quote
but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;'

I assume the word "aion" is in that verse in addition to "aionion" in the Greek. Is that true? If so, why do so many translations leave it out?

Those are my only two questions right now. Thanks everybody.


Hello Lupac,

The Holy Scriptures are inspired by God [2 Tim 3:16], not translations. For all the many translations, one could go on and on about why this was done a certain way and another version done differently. But it comes down to the fact that they were not inspired by God for the purposes of "doctrine, reproof, correction, etc." That's why the translations are inconsistent, their intentions for translating were not always the same as what God actually inspired to be written/stated.

I notice you continue to struggle with the 'unpardonable sin'...you even associate Peter with committing this as well. Peter never did so and neither have you. First we need to understand 'what' this sin is:

Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=2175.0):

Dear Jennifer:
Jennifer, I have many hundreds of emails ahead of yours, but I took the time to answer your before them all. It is not possible, however, for me to write essay type answers to hundreds and thousaands of emails. I realize that this is hard for many people to understand. Your email is about 6 pages long. If all my emails were 6 pages long, I would have to read thousands of pages each year before I could answer all my emails. Try that some time.
 
Don't apologize in one sentence and then put me down in the next. I did give you constructive criticism in my answer to you. I said that your theory was not Scriptural, because if it was, then Paul himself would have commited the "unpardonable sin" when he persecuted the Church of Christ in the name of God.
 
However, I do not wish for you to be despondent over this matter or me.
 
When Jesus warned of this sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, it was when He had cast out demons. The Scribes said that Jesus cast out devils by the prince of devils (Mark 3:22).  The Pharisees also accused Him of this very same thing (Matt. 9:34). And we are told that Jesus gave that stern warning, "Because they said, He [Jesus] has an unclean spirit."
 
But this alone is not all there is to this sin. Even in the Old Testament, when one sinned "ignorantly," he was held to a lower standard than if he sinned "willfully, knowlingly."  God's principles are always true. There was more to the sin of these Scribes and Pharisees than merely stating that Jesus had a devil and cast out devils by the prince of devil. The truth is THEY KNEW BETTER.  They knew that they were lying in order to deceive the multitudes who were beginning to believe in and trust Jesus as a Man of God. They were SINNING AGAINST LIGHT.  They were sinning aginst WHAT THEY KNEW WAS THE TRUTH.  And how do we know this?  We are frankly TOLD this in the Scriptures.
 
In John 3 we have a "Ruler of the Jews" by the name of Nicodemus, and this is what we are told by him:  "There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a RULER [this man KNEW what the Scribes and the Pharisees believed behind closed doors] of the Jews. The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto Him, Rabbi, WE [Scribes, Pharisees, Rulers, Jews]  KNOW  that you are a Teacher COME FROM GOD; for no man can do these miracles [such as casting out demons] that You do, except GOD BE WITH HIM"  (John 3:1-2).
 
It is when we KNOW the truth and blaspheme AGAINST THE TRUE LIGHT THAT WE KNOW, that we then "blaspheme against the Holy Spirit" which is the means by which light and truth is imparted.


God be with you,
Ray


Listen carefully Lupac: If one who knows the truth of God but 'fall away', that is NOT the unpardonable sin. Only God is able to make us stand and keep us from falling away, it requires faith from God [Eph 2:8]. Don't ever think just because you stumble along in your walk that you are committing this sin because again, that is NOT what the unpardonable sin is.

The unpardonable sin is this: when one knows the truth of God and all its goodness but blasphemes AGAINST these truths. In other words, when one calls the light of God DARKNESS, even when they KNOW what the light really is, or at least perceive it.

Have you ever thought that the sovereignty of God, salvation of all mankind, the love of God, etc as something that is evil, wicked, or vile? Seems absurd doesn't it? Well keep that in mind if you ever think about the 'unpardonable sin' again.


Hope this helps,

Marques
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Terry on December 27, 2009, 08:29:16 PM
Hi Lupac,
(And, by extension, am going to hell.
You can't go to a place that doesn't exist,
When God lead me to Bible Truths i was just like you full of doubt and fear and that was why he lead me here so he could replace doubt and fear with Truth.
Theres no way i can give you Scriptures that you haven't already heard ,God brought you here for a reason and that was to remove that doubt and fear.
This is how God worked it out for me, i  read every email sent to Ray everyone of them and slowly but surely i started to see these things it took months, as Ray would explain things in his replys farther alone in his emails i would remember other things that he had said and all of a sudden it was like a puzzle the pieces started to fall in place, and then after that i read everything on the home page getting a little here a little there,man can't make you see these things its God that will reveal these things to you by his Spirit its hard to explain it its like i would read something over and over and then over again and i still couldn't see it and then praise God it would be like a light went off in my head and i would see it i think thats the way it is with most people God lead you here and it was for a reason so don't beat yourself up God will show you these things in his time so just dig in and hang on your're in for quite a ride.

P.S. I've been studing here for about three years and still have only scratched the surface

Your Friend
Terry
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 28, 2009, 12:49:34 PM
Thanks, but I wasn't saying Peter committed that sin. I was saying that Peter "fell away" by denying Christ. Is that true? Also, could someone explain Hebrews 6:4-6? I've heard it been said that to be forgiven of falling away, Christ would have to be crucified again, using that verse. Also, using that one verse, I've heard that the "impossible" is really impossible, even for God, I suppose. That to me, is blasphemous. But can anyone help? Thanks.
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: mharrell08 on December 28, 2009, 01:29:05 PM
Thanks, but I wasn't saying Peter committed that sin. I was saying that Peter "fell away" by denying Christ. Is that true? Also, could someone explain Hebrews 6:4-6? I've heard it been said that to be forgiven of falling away, Christ would have to be crucified again, using that verse. Also, using that one verse, I've heard that the "impossible" is really impossible, even for God, I suppose. That to me, is blasphemous. But can anyone help? Thanks.


I'm sorry Lupac, I was only trying to follow your comments. You are right, Peter 'fell away' by denying Christ as did all the apostles.

Now regarding Heb 6:4-6, no where does it state that it is impossible for God to do anything in these passages. Also, as Peter states in his 2nd epistle, no scripture is it's own interpretation [2 Pet 1:20]. If you continue on in Hebrews 6, the writer explains the end for those who 'fall away' from the truth:

Heb 6:4-8  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

These who 'fall away' were never of the Elect in the first place, seeing that the Elect will not be deceived [Matt 24:24]. In Hebrews 6, these people are likened to ground that brings forth thorns & briers [similar to the analogy Paul uses in Romans 9: 'vessels of dishonor']. Their end is to be burned aka judgment by fire. This judgment will teach the wicked & unbelieving righteousness in the next age [Isa 26:9].

The Elect are likened to ground that brings forth herbs...similar to the 'vessels of honor' that Paul speaks of in Romans 9 as well as Christ parable of the Sower [Matt 13].

Though Peter 'fell away', this was not the same falling away talked about in Hebrews 6, seeing as he had yet to be 'enlightened'. Peter's shame happened before the scriptures being opened to him & the other apostles [Luke 24:45] and the spirit coming onto him and the others [Acts 2].


Hope this helps,

Marques
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Kat on December 28, 2009, 04:52:24 PM

Hi Terry,

Quote
i  read every email sent to Ray everyone of them and slowly but surely i started to see these things it took months, as Ray would explain things in his replys farther alone in his emails i would remember other things that he had said and all of a sudden it was like a puzzle the pieces started to fall in place, and then after that i read everything on the home page getting a little here a little there,man can't make you see these things its God that will reveal these things to you by his Spirit its hard to explain it its like i would read something over and over and then over again and i still couldn't see it and then praise God it would be like a light went off in my head and i would see it

This is the way I see it too.  Ray brought out this verse in the last conference.

Pro 23:7  For as he thinks in his heart, so is he.

I have thought about this verse and considered the meaning, it seems to me to be saying your thoughts become your words, your words become your actions and your actions become your reality.

The thought process or mind/heart is constantly evaluating what we take in through sight, sound, taste and is processing it.  This is reflected in our speech, the way we act (how we deal with issues and solve problems) and our overall attitude or who we are. 

So we have been planting and nourishing all these false concepts/doctrines in our minds all our lives and they grow to form who we are.  It will take more than our own efforts to change who we are and learn/understand/know the truth.  The only way this is possible is that God's Holy Spirit comes in and then our carnal beast natural is brought into check.

Joh 14:26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

It is a slow process though, we are removing the old/falsehoods by replacing it with the new/truth. But it is like you said we can read something over and over and not get it and all the sudden a light goes on.  I think the process of learning precept upon precept (Isa. 28:10) means we have to get one understanding in place before we can go on to learn more.  But some false doctrines are so deeply rooted in our thinking that they keep creeping back in and raising their ugly head.  So our battle is ongoing.

Quote
I've been studing here for about three years and still have only scratched the surface

So true  ;)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 29, 2009, 04:25:56 PM
I'm so confused. On one side you have Ray, and others like him saying that God will save all, and no one is going to be burned forever. But then on the other side is all the theologians who are supposed to know the Bible better than anyone else. And then you have the middle ground, of people who say only those who reject Christ will be burned. I don't know what to believe. I want to believe that God is good and just, and won't eternally punish anyone for sin. But then I'm scared that maybe he will. I don't want to serve a god that would burn anyone alive forever, but then I'm afraid if I don't, I will meet the same fate. I wish I could believe, but I don't know how...
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: arion on December 29, 2009, 04:51:04 PM
One of my former teachers in babylon did have a few pearls of wisdom that I still hold on to and one of the finest is this one.  "Don't doubt in the darkness what God has given you in the light."  IF you believe that the word of God is true then you have to actually believe it.  God is love!!  (1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16)  God never changes!! (Mal 3:6)  Now, is it love in any idea of the word to burn your enemies in literal fire?  Well is it?  What does God think about burning people in literal fire?  God says that burning people in fire is an abomination and has never even entered into his mind.  (Jer 32:35)  You will have to decide what you believe about God and his nature.  Do we take him at his word or not?  Do we listen to the charlatans who are like the birds of the air in the parable plucking away God's truth from our hearts or not?  I believe that down deep you have the witness in your own heart about these things.  If God is calling you then this issue will be settled for you sooner or later.  I wish we could pray a prayer for you and fix this but it's not that easy.  God has a path that He has you on and in the end it will bear out.  Some things you just have to walk through.  But I leave you with this once again.

    Don't doubt in the darkness what God has given you in the light!!
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 29, 2009, 05:09:58 PM
You're right. I just have to... overcome. I wish it was easier. I just, want to be secure in my faith that God is good, and just. I certainly don't believe the Babylon idea of hell is justice. JWs have more "justice" than mainstream Christianity. But nether are anywhere near the truth. I guess what I struggle on is, how can I know which is true?
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on December 29, 2009, 05:12:41 PM
Let this reasure you Lupac

Php 2:13  For it is God who is producing in you both THE DESIRE and the ability to do what pleases him.  

God produces the DESIRE and the ABILTY. They are both from God.

Arc
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Kat on December 29, 2009, 10:27:54 PM

Hi Lupac,

You have only been studying here for a relatively short period.  Give this time to develop in your mind, you are still laying the foundation.  There is a lot to take in and understand, keep studying and learning line upon line, precept upon precept.  Once you have laid a solid foundation you will really be able to go on to further knowledge, because you will have the basics down.  But first things first.

Mat 13:31  Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field,

Luke 13:18  Then He said, "What is the kingdom of God like? And to what shall I compare it?
v. 19  It is like a mustard seed, which a man took and put in his garden...

The kingdom of God, could we say this is the Truth and all it encompasses.  What could "his field/garden" be?  Well you take that initial bit of truth you received into your 'heart' and it begins to grow if you nourish it and it will become huge and intricate and able to help others.

Mat 13:32  which indeed is the least of all the seeds; but when it is grown it is greater than the herbs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches."

v. 19 ...and it grew and became a large tree, and the birds of the air nested in its branches."

Quote
But then on the other side is all the theologians who are supposed to know the Bible better than anyone else. And then you have the middle ground, of people who say only those who reject Christ will be burned.


Wouldn't you say that these are the "many"?

Mat 7:13  "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
Mat 7:14  For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Mat 7:21  "Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
v. 22  Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
v. 23  And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Keep on seeking His truth, He will not disappoint you.

mercy, peace and love
Kat



Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: G. Driggs on December 29, 2009, 11:33:10 PM
I wish I could believe, but I don't know how...

Just ask and believe you will receive.

Mat 21:22  "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."

Joh 16:24  "Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be made full.

I too sometimes struggle with unbelief, but I have never forgotten these next verses and how much they have helped. Ask Him to help your unbelief.

Mar 9:23  And Jesus said to him, " 'If You can?' All things are possible to him who believes."
Mar 9:24  Immediately the boy's father cried out and said, "I do believe; help my unbelief."


All good gifts must be asked for and given by God.

Mat 7:11  "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

Luk 11:13  "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

Everything good comes from God, including your faith, your belief, your hope, your love, and the grace and salvation you WILL receive. Just ask and be patient, give yourself time like Kat told you, all this does not happen overnight. I have complete confidence you will believe, in HIS time.

Sincerely hope this helps a little.

G.Driggs
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 30, 2009, 08:24:32 PM
I'm learning, and doing better now. One thing that's hard, for me, (I need to get over myself...) is that Calvinists have a very, very negative view of humanity. They believe that not only we deserve to die, (Which we do, and WILL.) but we deserve nothing less than to be tortured forever, just for existing/sinning. (I don't know if that's what they say they believe, nor would they admit it, but that's what a lot of them think.) It's very depressing, and it's hard to get out of that mindset.
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: arion on December 30, 2009, 09:33:11 PM
The truth of the teachings of God's great love for all is not only found throughout scripture but is now on the doorstep of your heart through the teachings.  You know in your own spirit I believe, the truth of this.  Time to turn off the Christian tv, radio or books that parrot the doctrine of babylon.  Ray has said it many times that if something is true the more study you do shows it to be true and by the same token if something is false (the typical pagan hell doctrine) the more honest study you do proves it to be false.  It does take some time for most of us to be able to slough off all the old and carnal teachings that we received.  

      Gal 5:22-23  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

I find these fruits everyday on this board and on precious few other websites that have grasped some truths of universal salvation.

However,

     Gal 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

I also see many of these manifested on various websites and in every church that I was ever a part of.  Not that any of us are any better than those who do these things as it is God who works in us both will and to do of his good pleasure.  Jesus said that by their fruits you will know them and of course being in the carnal teachings of the institutional church that is all that you ever saw so it was easy to point the finger at other churches and belief systems and be blind to the works of the flesh in your own church and in your own self.  It didn't really take all that long after throwing myself into the teachings and into the people on this board to discern these things once God turned the lights on in my heart as it were.  Just keep on keeping on...you'll make it.
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Lupac on December 31, 2009, 03:22:24 PM
Thanks. I worry about stuff that shouldn't even be worried about. Worrying won't do me any good. I'm still very afraid of hell, unfortunately. When I was younger, I used to have nightmares about being sent there. I never told my parents. I worry that... this is really silly, that maybe all of this isn't even true, (God, Jesus, an afterlife at all.) but I know it is. I've stumbled across many sites in the past I wish I hadn't. One was a site, I hate to even say it, run by a satanist that supposedly "proved" that the Bible was a Jewish/Catholic conspiracy designed to keep the masses under control, and not let them into the "higher up's secrete occult power". Yeah... I sometimes wish I could erase all my memories and leave only the "good" ones. I worry about the stupidest stuff. I don't know where I'm really going with this post, I had the idea earlier, but I had to leave my house and when I got back, I couldn't remember what I was going to say.
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Ninny on December 31, 2009, 06:44:26 PM
Bryant...please keep it in your heart and mind that God is Love..keep that...remember that...Love doesn't torture, love doesn't hurt intentionally, Love is God...whatsoever things are true...think on these things..God is not out to hurt or torture in any way any of his creation..not you nor I nor anyone...ever...If you can't cling to anything else in the darkness, cling to the fact that God is Love....God is Love....His Love is awesome and He is an awesome Father...You've been given the scriptures. Now let them soak in...
Kathy :-*
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: cjwood on December 31, 2009, 10:47:34 PM
young lupac,
here is an old post i found by kat, which is very helpful in getting an understanding of what your/our mindsets should be.  stand strong in the Light which is so obviously drawing you to this forum of true believers, and to Himself ultimately.

claudia

 Re: Mind of Christ ?
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2009, 10:45:02 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hi gallenwalsh,

Here are some Scriptures that should help you understand the mind we should seek to conform to.

Rom 12:1  I appeal to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
v. 2  Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

Heb 8:10  For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Php 2:1  So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any incentive of love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy,
v. 2  complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.
v. 3  Do nothing from selfishness or conceit, but in humility count others better than yourselves.
v. 4  Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.
v. 5  Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,

1Pe 1:13  Therefore gird up your minds, be sober, set your hope fully upon the grace that is coming to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
v. 14  As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,
v. 15  but as He who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in all your conduct;

Rom 15:4  For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.
v. 5  Now may the God of patience and comfort grant you to be like-minded toward one another, according to Christ Jesus,
v. 6  that you may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Col 3:12  Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;
v. 13  bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.
v. 14  But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection.
v. 15  And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful.
v. 16  Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
v. 17  And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

 
 
 
 
Title: Re: I don't know what to do.
Post by: Kat on December 31, 2009, 10:57:50 PM

Hi Lupac,

You know we all have dreadful things in our past, but actually it is not something to wish away.  These are part of a necassary "experience in evil" that we all must go through.  If we did not know about this darkness, how would we understand the light... if we had not known saddness, how would we be able to appreciate happiness... if we had not felt pain, could we realize pleasure... if we have not suffered grief, could we thoroughly feel joy... if we did not do something difficult, can we appreciate when something is easy, unless we have been through ignorance, we can not get to wisdom... if we had not heard lies, we would not value the truth... without experiencing hate, we can not recognize real love.  

We need to appreciate all that we have to experience in this life, because the lessons we learn in this existence are precious.  

Ecc 3:1-8 To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven:  
       A time to be born,
          And a time to die;
       A time to plant,
          And a time to pluck what is planted;
       A time to kill,
          And a time to heal;
       A time to break down,
          And a time to build up;
       A time to weep,
          And a time to laugh;
       A time to mourn,
          And a time to dance;
       A time to cast away stones,
          And a time to gather stones;
       A time to embrace,
          And a time to refrain from embracing;
       A time to gain,
          And a time to lose;
       A time to keep,
          And a time to throw away;
       A time to tear,
          And a time to sew;
       A time to keep silence,
          And a time to speak;
       A time to love,
          And a time to hate;
       A time of war,
          And a time of peace.

James 1:2  My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials,
v. 3  knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.

Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

1Peter 2:9  But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

mercy, peace and love
Kat