=> Testimonies / Prayer Requests / Fellowship => Topic started by: Oatmeal on December 15, 2009, 07:15:02 PM

Title: What did Jesus really mean?
Post by: Oatmeal on December 15, 2009, 07:15:02 PM
What did Jesus really mean?

I am writing this out of frustration because when I look at my life I seem to be coming short (not doing what I should do and doing what I should not do).  I think that I have been making excuses, for example: I'll just use the world and the world system a little (but I won't get too involved) and after I have paid off my debt then I will seek the kingdom of God.”

However, probably by the mercy of God (I'm too blind to see for sure), my plans of just dipping a little into the world (for financial gain) are being destroyed and shattered.

What did Jesus really mean when he said:

Luke 14:33
So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

What is this all?  What does it mean in black and white?

Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Luke 16:13
No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

James 4:4
…know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

I feel that I have a bulldozer at my back and I am being pushed towards the strait gate. My feet are making these little useless furrows of resistance.  I am going to have to go through this gate but I have NO FAITH.

Please please pray that I die.  Perhaps it's because I am so selfish, I know that to die is the only way that I can live.  But nevertheless, please pray that I die.  As quickly or as slowly as God wills.  I'd like it to be quick, but if God wants it to be slow, then let it be that way.  For those who don't understand, I'm not praying for my physical death.

I've seen my heart, absolutely rebellious towards God, and a king (stupid king over nothing), but who is this person who is seeking after God?

For those who know how to pray, and who God listens to, please pray for me, or pray against me, depending how you look at it.  (But how can you pray for me in truth if you are not yet one of the elect?)

John 12:24-25
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. 25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.


John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will MANIFEST MYSELF to him.
(Geneva Bible - will show my own self to him; Bible in Basic English - will let myself be seen clearly by him; Weymouth New Testament - will clearly reveal myself to him)

I think that this happens at the END of the narrow way when the called become the elect (not arguing the point that the elect are always the elect), and is experiential, after one has walked to the end of the narrow way.

Same thing (a message to the Church (not to unbelievers)):

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Again, an experiential supping for the overcomers, do you think?

I know that close full-time fellowship/friendship with God is possible because many years ago God put it into my being to cry after this fellowship with Him.  Churches said that this experiential close fellowship and full-time victorious walk was not obtainable until after one died.  If you seek with all of your heart you WILL find.

In the “faith chapter” (therefore diligent seeking is evidence that you have faith):

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

I can't even seek unless God calls me to that seeking.

I get the idea that we are not supposed to teach here and perhaps what I have said can be defined as teaching but…

I just want to say something about where I am and what I have learnt.

Please care about me.  I am a very small person and God will win and I will lose.

God, please please allow me to lose.  Allow me to lose.
Title: Re: What did Jesus really mean?
Post by: tamaralv on December 16, 2009, 12:17:20 AM

Through losing a little you gain MUCH.  I care about you, as little as I am myself, I care.  I'll pray.

Peace and Love in Christ,

Title: Re: What did Jesus really mean?
Post by: Robin on December 17, 2009, 08:20:12 AM
Ezekiel 36:25-27
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

Jeremiah 31:32-34
 32 It will not be like the covenant
       I made with their forefathers
       when I took them by the hand
       to lead them out of Egypt,
       because they broke my covenant,
       though I was a husband to them,"
       declares the LORD.

 33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
       after that time," declares the LORD.
       "I will put my law in their minds
       and write it on their hearts.
       I will be their God,
       and they will be my people.

 34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
       or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'
       because they will all know me,
       from the least of them to the greatest,"
       declares the LORD.
       "For I will forgive their wickedness
       and will remember their sins no more."
Title: Re: What did Jesus really mean?
Post by: Kat on December 17, 2009, 12:02:08 PM

Hi Oatmeal,

The physical world has so many pulls on us, if there is ANYTHING that we could not leave behind, then we are not worthy of Him.

Luke 9:57  Now it happened as they journeyed on the road, that someone said to Him, "Lord, I will follow You wherever You go."
v. 58  And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head."
v. 59  Then He said to another, "Follow Me."
    But he said, "Lord, let me first go and bury my father."
v. 60  Jesus said to him, "Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and preach the kingdom of God."
v. 61  And another also said, "Lord, I will follow You, but let me first go and bid them farewell who are at my house."
v. 62  But Jesus said to him, "No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."

Jesus Christ requires His disciples to abandon everything in this world.  Does that mean you must go off by yourself and be like a hermit.  No, it mean that serving and obeying God comes first above EVERYTHING else.  That's what is meant by "he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life."

John 12:24  Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain.
v. 25  He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

You must count the cost and once you put the hand to the plow, to look back and desire anything that the world has to offer is showing total disrespect for your calling.

Luke 14:25 -33  Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them, "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.  And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.

For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it-- lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, "This man began to build and was not able to finish.'

Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace.

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple. --------------------


God has already outlined a training course for those who would be Sons and Daughters of God. It involves a whole lot more than just enunciating a phrase of faith in Jesus. Acknowledging Jesus as your Saviour is certainly the starting point, but it is far from the complete requirement for those who would reign with Jesus as Judge, Lord, Priest and King. Here are just a few of the things that God requires of us. There are, of course, dozens, even HUNDREDS more declarations and admonitions to those who would become manifest Sons and Daughters of our God and Father:

1."LOVE your enemies, BLESS them that curse you, DO GOOD to them that hate you, and PRAY for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you [Why?]; that ye may be the children [Greek: ‘SONS’] of your Father which is in heaven" (Matt. 5:44-45)!

2."Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, DO YE EVEN SO TO THEM: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matt. 7:12).

3."For I say unto you, That except YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS SHALL EXCEED righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in NO CASENO CASE enter into the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 5:20).

4."Then said Jesus unto His disciples, If any man will come after Me, let Him DENY HIMSELF, and TAKE UP HIS CROSS, and FOLLOW ME" (Matt. 16:24).

5."Jesus said unto him, You shall LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind… YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" (Matt. 22:37-40).

6."And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall ENDURE UNTO THE END, the same shall be saved" (Matt. 24:12-13).

7."Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on Him, IF YE CONTINUE IN MY WORDIF YE CONTINUE IN MY WORD, then are ye my disciples indeed" (John 8:31).

8."Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but HE THAT DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER which is in heaven" (Matt. 7:21).

9."COME OUT OF HER [Mystery Babylon the Great and all of her evil teachings], My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4).

10."My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of Him. For whom the Lord loves He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives. IF YOU ENDURE CHASTENING, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye illegitimate, and not sons" (Heb. 12:5-8).

11."Beloved think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as YE ARE PARTAKERS OF CHRIST"S SUFFERINGS; that, when His glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy" (I Pet. 4:12-13).

12."That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it BE TRIED WITH [SPIRITUAL] FIRE, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ" (I Pet. 1:7).

13."LOVE NOT THE WORLD [that is the social system of this world, we are to love the people of the world], neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world" (I John 2:15-16).

14."I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a LIVING SACRIFICE, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And BE NOT CONFORMED TO THIS WORLD: but be ye transformed by the RENEWING OF YOUR MIND, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God" (Rom. 12:1).

15."But Jesus called them unto Him and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But IT SHALL NOT BE SO WITH YOU: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister [servant]" (Matt. 20:25-26).

16."Let nothing be done through strife or vain glory; but in lowliness of mind let each ESTEEM OTHERS BETTER THAN THEMSELVES" (Phil. 2:3).

17."Let this MIND BE IN YOU, which was also in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:5).
"SUBMIT yourselves therefore to God. RESIST the devil, and he will flee from you. DRAW NIGH to God, and He will draw night to you. CLEANSE your hands, ye sinners; and PURIFY your hearts, ye double minded" (James 4:7).

18."REPENT ye, and believe the gospel" (Mark 1:15).

19."For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him, but ALSO TO SUFFER FOR HIS SAKE" (Phil. 1:29).

20."But I say unto you, That ye RESIST NOT EVIL: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also" (Matt. 5:39).

21."Then said Jesus unto him, PUT UP AGAIN YOUR SWORD into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword" (Matt. 26:52).

22."For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die, but if ye through the Spirit do MORTIFY THE DEEDS OF THE BODY, ye shall live" (Rom. 8:13).

23."WALK IN THE SPIRIT, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh" (Gal. 5:16).

I know that it sounds overwhelming that we should actually live by all of these commandments. And actually, there are many more like commandments in God’s Word. How are we to perform all these impossible tasks? Well certainly not by our own will and power.

mercy, peace and love

Title: Re: What did Jesus really mean?
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on December 17, 2009, 04:05:01 PM
Hello Oatmeal
Here is another facet to add to the gems of wisdom already presented.
Excerpts from:

What Is The Gospel Of The Kingdom?

Now let’s go back and get a little more prospective on everything.

There are two seeds on the earth. 

You’ve got the Seed of the Serpent and you’ve got the Seed of the woman.  The Seed of the woman, through the Seed of Christ, is going to obey the gospel.  How are they going to come into obedience, by the way?  What is going to bring about this obedience?  Judgment!  “for judgment to begin at the house of God”  that’s how you come into obedience to the gospel.

But the two Seeds keep going, the two Seeds are here until the end of time.  Those that obey the gospel - those that do not obey the gospel

Jesus Christ didn’t call His gospel ‘the gospel of the one Seed,’ did He?  No, He called it the gospel of what?  The kingdom of God.  He preached the gospel of the kingdom of God.
 “Repent, and believe the gospel."  It’s at hand for YOU!  It’s at your hand right now, for you!  It’s wasn’t at your hand before you were born.  If some of you die this week or next month or next year or whatever, it won’t be at hand for you then.  The kingdom of God is at hand NOW.  When you hear this message, that’s when it is at hand for you. 
This is God telling you, repent the kingdom of God is at hand, right now, while you are sitting there, right now it’s at hand. 

How is it at hand?  Because Jesus Christ is, was and He will be!   

So which ever Scripture you pick out to understand, it is all about the same thing. It is about the different perspectives showing the many called and the few chosen, the obedient and the disobedient, the seed of the serpent and The Seed that is Christ, the faithful and the unfaithful, the believers and the unbelievers, the Godly and the unGodly, the carnal and the Spiritual.

Ray teaches, it is all about the same thing. It is all One. It is all about God making us into His Image. First the natural then the Spiritual.