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=> Testimonies / Prayer Requests / Fellowship => Topic started by: Deborah-Leigh on January 03, 2010, 07:10:41 AM
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I have been looking at earlier posts and noticed how much I have changed since the publishing of Rays teachings that have progressively edified and enlightened. The influence effects us all. I think we all could edit our posts with the teachings we have today that were absent to us then.
I did an exercise on one posters comments made in 1996 and I can see how differently I would answer now, knowing what I know now.
20/20 hindsight :)
Arc
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Hi Arcturus, that old saying "if I knew then what I know now" comes to mind. :)
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Hi Stacey
What comes to my mind is, no looking back! :D
It is with deep appreciation that we have the light of the Truth dawning on us!
Arc
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I have looked back on mine and almost deleted, but then I realized that its good for me, and others to have the comparison to see just as you said, our growth. It's very humbling.
When I first started posting I made several mistakes in some of the things I said or rather didn't understand what I was saying and got offended and actually did delete a couple things, but now I wish I hadn't because after rethinking the things I posted that were wrong or taken wrong would humble me in many ways. I'm one of those that say it like I see it and feel it, and if I have to take my foot out of my mouth then I will do it humbly, and they're plenty of people here to let me know my foot is in my mouth, and I'm beginning to like the taste of leather coated with humble icing.
Peace
Roy
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Hello Roy
Thank you for your comments. It is not unusual to feel offended, hurt, disappointed or even sad. It is part of the process but we do not have to live in anxiety here in the Forum. Our Father has appointed each one of us to be here and He is preparing a people for His Kingdom. Part of being accounted worthy is being humble - knowing God is Sovereign with the same reverential dependence of a child for their parent.
Mat 18:4 Therefore whoever shall humble himself like this little child, this one is the greater in the kingdom of Heaven.
Psa 10:17 LORD, thou hast heard the desire of the humble: thou wilt prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thy ear to hear:
Arc
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Yes indeed.
Roy
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Part of being accounted worthy is being humble - knowing God is Sovereign with the same reverential dependence of a child for their parent.
Amen!
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I am glad you noticed this too Stacey!
Being humble is NOT as Christendom falsely believes and erroneously teaches.
True humbleness of spirit is KNOWING we do not have freedom of will or choice. If we BELIEVE that free-will is a myth, then we cannot help but be humbled before our All Powerful, All Loving, All Wise God and Father.
Every effort at being humble without believing that there is no such thing as free will, is just lip service and pretense, showmanship, hypocrisy, insincerity, double standards, duplicity, two-facedness, charade, sham, make-believe, deceit, deception, simulation, mock-up and cheap imitation…...Don’t you just love words! :D
We have preferences yes, but no freedom of choice.
Arc
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I am glad you noticed this too Stacey!
Being humble is NOT as Christendom falsely believes and erroneously teaches.
True humbleness of spirit is KNOWING we do not have freedom of will or choice. If we BELIEVE that free-will is a myth, then we cannot help but be humbled before our All Powerful, All Loving, All Wise God and Father.
Every effort at being humble without believing that there is no such thing as free will, is just lip service and pretense, showmanship, hypocrisy, insincerity, double standards, duplicity, two-facedness, charade, sham, make-believe, deceit, deception, simulation, mock-up and cheap imitation…...Don’t you just love words! :D
We have preferences yes, but no freedom of choice.
Arc
I couldn't agree more with you if I tried. Humility from God is the real deal. Not all words but I sure like the way you used all those colorful ones right there. You are right on about the preferences.
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Thanks Stacey. :)
It is wonderful to have you on board! Being of like-mind is......
.... to do the work of ministry, and to build up the body of Christ
Eph 4:13 until all of us are united in the faith and in the full knowledge of God's Son, and until we attain mature adulthood and the full standard of development in Christ.
Eph 4:14 Then we will no longer be little children, tossed like waves and blown about by every wind of doctrine, by people's trickery, or by clever strategies that would lead us astray.
Eph 4:15 Instead, by speaking the truth in love, we will grow up completely into the one who is the head, that is, into Christ,
Eph 4:16 in whom the whole body is united and held together by every ligament with which it is supplied. As each individual part does its job, the body's growth is promoted so that it builds itself up in love.
Arc
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Hi Arcturus,
I too have come across posts that I could see I was much more immature in my understanding than now. So for the sake of those who may read something I have posted in the pass, I too edit as needed to get it in line with the Scriptures and Ray's teaching. It is quite revealing to see this and realize we grow so much in our understanding over time. I fully trust that He will continue to bring me/us into line with truth, according to His timetable.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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I am glad you noticed this too Stacey!
Being humble is NOT as Christendom falsely believes and erroneously teaches.
True humbleness of spirit is KNOWING we do not have freedom of will or choice. If we BELIEVE that free-will is a myth, then we cannot help but be humbled before our All Powerful, All Loving, All Wise God and Father.
Every effort at being humble without believing that there is no such thing as free will, is just lip service and pretense, showmanship, hypocrisy, insincerity, double standards, duplicity, two-facedness, charade, sham, make-believe, deceit, deception, simulation, mock-up and cheap imitation…...Don’t you just love words! :D
We have preferences yes, but no freedom of choice.
Arc
Hi Arcturus, and all. I’m not sure how much I love those words since they’re pretty much “in my face”. ;)
Becoming, at a snails pace, more clearly to me…………now………….knowing and believing we don’t have a free-will has been a heart and mind grating experience, for me. I don’t know why it has been, and continues to be such a struggle. Sometimes I feel rather stupid since quite a few seemed to have just grasped it like magic. Well not them by themselves, of course, but God’s gift rather. How so very blessed are they, truly. I envy. Nonetheless, it makes me feel comforted to know even Ray stated, somewhere, that even HE had to think about it a few hundred hours (can’t remember the paper or the email, I think it might have been a reply to “Beth”). So, if it took Ray a few hundred hours to cement it down to a solid then I suppose I should not be so dis-enchanted with the process that we all go through. And it is a process, at least for me, a multi-leveled process apparently, ie: read the “myth” of free-will by Ray, think on it for a while, argue in my mind about how silly it could possibly be that I’m not my own captain, re-read “myth of free-will” (several more times), argue steadily with my “logic” about how it just can’t be that God controls EVERYTHING, re-read again, ask God to give this “strawman” a brain to have thinking ability, give up, swear off Ray’s teachings…….forever……….., tool around with the idea I’m a “vessel of dishonor”, wonder when it was exactly that my mother and Satan got together and spawned this sinister child, go back to reading Rays teachings, give up yet again but this time somehow sense that God will see it through what he has started, begin to question God’s love, read more of Ray’s teachings, begin to question if I should “trust” God and let go of the phantom controls, look up the word “sovereign” in the dictionary, realize how stupid that argument really is, give up yet again but this time with a newness of mind that I will “get it” at the PRECISE moment that God allows such a magnificent feat. That’s where I am now. Never in my life have I felt so stiff-necked and seen myself so rebellious a child. For now I’m still deep, deep in the muck-filled trenches. I pray there’s no end to God’s patience.
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise.
For me, I will gladly give up this: “lip service and pretense, showmanship, hypocrisy, insincerity, double standards, duplicity, two-facedness, charade, sham, make-believe, deceit, deception, simulation, mock-up and cheap imitation”
For this: “True humbleness of spirit”..
In such a quest it truly is inspiring and heart melting to be in the forum and know others have, and are, going through the same processes so that we can all help one another.
Gary
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gary, i was reading your post and thought "he is talking about me".....i have the same struggle.....trying to wrap my mind around and accept that God DOES control EVERYTHING.....i too wrestle with the thought that i must be a vessel of DIS-honor.....i feel like the pendulum on a clock, swinging from one extreme to the other(hope-dispair, strength-give up, ect).....but i keep coming accross these little scriptures that keep talking about "waiting" on the Lord...i never really knew what that means, but i am beginning to get a glimpse....when i can sit down and STOP trying to understand and reason out these things myself, i tell God i just don't get it... i tell Him you just have to do it for me.....i am learning to wait.....and i have noticed little baby steps of understanding.....my personality is more like Jacob (i think) who grabbed ahold of God and tried to wrestly out of Him what he wanted and refused to let go until he got it(i want it NOW!lol).... i am learning to trust God to give me what i need when i need it.... i have to learn to wait patiently... and in His time, He will lead us into His knowledge and understanding....we are all in training, it is a process that will last our whole life, i think....maybe that is why Paul said that he "fought the good fight"......that is what it feels like to me, too, a fight or struggle...mostly with myself! ;) .....(i wonder who will win? me or me? lol)
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Hi Kathy
…….”I could see I was much more immature in my understanding than now….”
I too have the experience of immaturity. I am so grateful that the teachings of God through Ray, have kept us well fed and nurtured in His Truth. I think we are learning to take our first steps right here in the BT Forum.
At first, we all crawl. :D
Excerpt from PHYSICAL or SPIRITUAL RESURRECTION BODIES FOR THE WICKED & NON-BELIEVERS?
……the exact and precise definition of the word “resurrection.” It means to “stand up” upon one’s feet, but the word itself has nothing to do with being “spiritual” or “immortal” whatsoever.
God makes us stand. 8)
Arc
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Hi Gary
I’m not sure how much I love those words since they’re pretty much “in my face”.”
You have an adorable sense of humor!
I don’t know why it has been, and continues to be such a struggle.
Count yourself blessed, favored and with God’s great mercy upon you that you are in such a struggle! What we have does not come easy. You may be under a false assumption that those who appear to have “grasped it like magic” have not had to bear the heat of the day or it is easier for them. No Gary.
Those who come to the Lord’s vineyard have come off from the streets standing doing nothing and not struggling for anything worthwhile.
Just as if you are laboring in the Lord’s vineyard from early in the morning or from the third sixth or eleventh hour, it is better than bearing the burden of idle redundancy in the jobless yard in the heat of the day on the street! :)
Arc
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Hello lauriellen
Thank you for sharing.
….I can sit down…I have noticed little baby steps….I am learning to trust God…
God sees when we sit down, when we take a baby step and He is causing us to learn to trust Him. :)
Psa 139:2 You know my sitting down and my rising up; You understand my thought afar off.
Arc
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I've gone back and deleted a reply or two that were especially stupid. Mostly I've left them alone. I've never minded being 'wrong', and I trust the readers of the forum understand we grow or we die. If I'm too much in doubt or the question has been answered sufficiently without my rambling, I'll more likely just stop and not hit 'post'. That happens a whole lot. :D
Gary and lauriellen, I was so flustered by the notion that there was no free-will that I was almost literally completely paralyzed for days. I couldn't so much as scratch my nose (literally) without wondering and worrying about how it fit into the plan of God. Did God want me to scratch my nose? Or is it me wanting to scratch my nose and God doesn't really care one way or the other? What do the scriptures say about God and my nose-scratching? Can I alter the course of the universe by scratching my nose? How about by not scratching my nose? What if God actually wanted me to scratch my nose, and I refused? On and on and on. I just didn't like the thought of living so "passively". I felt like I had lost something precious, though I was willing to let it go if need be.
It was actually more the forum than an article by Ray that got me to understand just enough to stop being so paralyzed by confusion. For a while, I just accepted it as if it were part of a creed. As empty as that sounds, it was that tiny bit of belief/faith that made it possible to 'see' just how loudly and clearly this truth is declared in Scripture (something that still astounds me), and how blind I had to be to not see it.
Now, many hundreds of hours of learning and of contemplation and meditation later, I just about almost can see a point at which I might just 'get it'. Whew! This false doctrine of 'free-will/free moral agency' is the main living quarters of the Beast, I believe. It does not go easy for anybody, I don't believe, once it's been built in us. It's been the small, incremental and ongoing destruction of this doctrine that has made most of what difference exists in my life from my cynical and depressed recent past. I'm gladder and gladder that Jesus is Lord.
As far as living "passively" goes...Ray Smith believes in the Soveriegnty of God over the will of Man. Would you describe Ray as 'passive'? :D
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"Did God want me to scratch my nose? Or is it me wanting to scratch my nose and God doesn't really care one way or the other? What do the scriptures say about God and my nose-scratching? Can I alter the course of the universe by scratching my nose? How about by not scratching my nose? What if God actually wanted me to scratch my nose, and I refused? On and on and on. "
Ha! you are so funny....i find myself doing this also....God must really get a laugh out of some of the silly stuff we do.....
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Don't worry be happy. :)
Let God steer you, make your choices and don't worry about it. If God is in charge, your good and bad choices are there to shape you into His image, and whatever the outcomes they will teach you a thing or two also. The more you learn the truth of God and the more He is in you the better your choices will be.
Craig
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I know what you guys are saying it seems we are all in the same boat, i wake up every morning and say Lord whats going to happen next, i feel most of the time like a lump of clay molded into a vessel and stuck in the potters furnace, i know one thing for certain about hindsight since God called me about 22 years ago no matter what i have done he has never left me oh he seems far away at times when i'm doing my thing but no matter how low i get he's always there to pick me up i believe i can say with complete honestly when God truly calls one you stay called you can run but you can't hide well thats my two cents worth.
Terry
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20/20 hindsight. How true this is. As I reflect back I can see God's work in my life as plain as day. If I try and look forward I don't see so well. I do my best to stay in today, trusting that what I do and feel is exactly what God wills for me. It is faith working and is difficult to see the next step for me. Looking back is easier to see clearly Gods will. Just a thought from me ;D
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Thank you to you all for your insights. :)
I believe it appropriate to include the following:
You won’t see some of these things until they are behind you. You’re going to have to look behind you to see where you came from, to see where God has been taking you. Some of us wouldn’t want to live tomorrow if we knew what was coming, you know. Be thankful that you don’t know everything that’s coming. Be thankful that you only have to take one day at a time. You don’t want to know what every day has to hold. Take it one day at a time as God presents it to you.
And there will come a time, when you can look behind you, as I can, and see where God’s been taking you all these years. You’ll see it plain as day. I could sit here for hours and tell you all about it. I can tell you about trees and grass and mountains coming down, I know what it means. It’s all one, all this stuff. Are you getting it? It’s all one thing. Whether you believe on Christ or enter the door of Christ or call upon the name of Christ or accept His grace through the faith of Christ, it’s all one thing. It’s all Christ coming to you, living His life in you! Ref : How hard is getting saved L. Ray Smith
Arc
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Arc..thank you for including that little exerpt from Ray's article..I love that! and I remember thinking the first time I read that.."Now THAT is revelation!!" 8)
Kathy ;)
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My pleasure Kathy :-*