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=> Off Topic Discussions => Topic started by: lareli on December 12, 2020, 12:54:59 PM

Title: State of the world
Post by: lareli on December 12, 2020, 12:54:59 PM
How does everyone feel about the world right now?

Are we like the oceans tides swelling and crashing and then receding? This year has been like the water’s swelling and crashing, again and again seemingly bigger each time. Just wondering if you feel that it will soon die down and recede or if it’s to get much more rough before it gets better?

What do the saints see.. are storm clouds gathering still? Or is the light soon to break through?

At the beginning of this year some posted warnings of what they were seeing.. ‘storm clouds on the horizon’ if you will, and I wasn’t so sure.. but you were so right.

Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: lareli on December 12, 2020, 01:08:13 PM
Luke 12:51

Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
54 ¶ And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
55 And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass.
56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: indianabob on December 12, 2020, 06:15:36 PM
Hi Lereli,

I think that this parable has applied at various times throughout history for Jews or Christians in many nations.
It was addressed to Israelites by Jesus during his ministry and they were aware of the conflict in beliefs among their own people. So it is a caution for God's people to be mindful of living righteously in all circumstances and to put their trust in God and not in their own strength.
bob
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: Porter on December 13, 2020, 12:54:33 AM
I've always felt as though the world is as sinful now as they were in Noah's day. Only difference from then and now is there are a lot more people. I think the only thing that has gotten "worse and worse" spiritually, is the Church.

The parable in Luke is in the same vein as "many are called, but few chosen" from among the Church or House of God.
 
2Ti 2:20  Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver bowls, but also those of wood and earthenware, some for special use, some for ordinary.
2Ti 2:21  So if anyone purifies himself from these things, he will be a special instrument, set apart, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.

Purification only happens through and by judgment. The time (mentioned in Luke) Jesus is referring to is the time of Judgment for His Elect; from the whole House of God.
1Pe 4:17  For the time has come for judgment to begin with God's household (the whole Church of God ); and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God?

People will always find ways to hate, hurt and kill one another. Just as they have done for thousands of years. I think anyone can see and hear the ocean raging, but not everyone can see and hear Jesus knocking at the door.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: Learner on December 13, 2020, 08:31:50 AM
With covid-19 and the effects of lockdown there is an undercurrent of frustration building up towards the xmas period. It may burst out and the effects could be collossal,the UK is facing Brexit on top of it all.We as a couple have been offered the new covid vaccine for the over 80s,it is with some soulsearching we have said OK as we are  to obey those who rule over us? The raging waves are ready to go society is in a spirit of disobedience from lots of angles,we await with trepidation!
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: indianabob on December 13, 2020, 07:36:47 PM
Hello Learner,

Regarding obeying those in authority and not wanting to take inoculations.
In our past with four children we were challenged by this situation.
We handled it with a clear conscience in the same manner as we would have had there not been enough to protect everyone.
If there is not enough vaccine for all, we pray to God to intervene in our behalf anyway.
=
If vaccine is mandated even though we are afraid to take it because it is not yet perfected, then we pray to our God to protect us from any bad effects. God is with us in either circumstances, IF we put our trust in God and not ourselves.

God does not desire sacrifice but rather obedience and a forgiving heart.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: AwesomeSavior on December 14, 2020, 02:03:58 PM
Lots of surprises are coming shortly, beginning here in Michigan.

There's a reasonable chance Big Tech will institute a blackout within days/weeks.

We are living in biblical times.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: indianabob on December 14, 2020, 03:04:16 PM
Lots of surprises are coming shortly, beginning here in Michigan.

There's a reasonable chance Big Tech will institute a blackout within days/weeks.

We are living in biblical times.

Hi Awesome,

You make a valid point, but if a blackout should occur then we will need to focus on reading scripture all the more and relying on God's spirit to continue to lead us to better understand what Ray Smith has shared with us.

Every new challenge is designed to open our eyes in a better way.

Indiana Bob
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: lareli on December 15, 2020, 07:25:29 PM
Lots of surprises are coming shortly, beginning here in Michigan.

There's a reasonable chance Big Tech will institute a blackout within days/weeks.

We are living in biblical times.

Hi Awesome,

You make a valid point, but if a blackout should occur then we will need to focus on reading scripture all the more and relying on God's spirit to continue to lead us to better understand what Ray Smith has shared with us.

Every new challenge is designed to open our eyes in a better way.

Indiana Bob

Amen to that Bob.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: Shawn from Georgia on December 17, 2020, 02:05:37 AM
With covid-19 and the effects of lockdown there is an undercurrent of frustration building up towards the xmas period. It may burst out and the effects could be collossal,the UK is facing Brexit on top of it all.We as a couple have been offered the new covid vaccine for the over 80s,it is with some soulsearching we have said OK as we are  to obey those who rule over us? The raging waves are ready to go society is in a spirit of disobedience from lots of angles,we await with trepidation!

There's no reason to take a vaccine for a virus that has never been isolated and proven to exist (per the CDC's own words). Even if the virus is real, the mortality rate is something like 0.04% or so.. which is extremely low. If you research what's in these vaccines, especially the mRNA vaccines (DNA altering), the risks are extremely high.. I would advise against it. But to each their own.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: indianabob on December 17, 2020, 02:36:51 AM
Fair point Shawn.
plus it won't affect your salvation one way or the other.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: Joel on December 17, 2020, 03:00:52 PM
People are dying from something.
I have several relatives that work in hospitals dealing with these people, and I'm sure they aren't making up stories about this problem.
A close neighbor's family, Father, Mother, son and daughter all had it, and the 50 year old mom died a couple weeks ago.

My brother-in-laws brother passed away last week, he was 64 and was very athletic.

Joel
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: Rene on December 17, 2020, 03:46:53 PM

Even if the virus is real, the mortality rate is something like 0.04% or so.. which is extremely low.


COVID-19, the virus, is REAL.  Unfortunately, it will take the death of a love one before some people will take it seriously.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: Shawn from Georgia on December 17, 2020, 09:40:17 PM

Even if the virus is real, the mortality rate is something like 0.04% or so.. which is extremely low.


COVID-19, the virus, is REAL.  Unfortunately, it will take the death of a love one before some people will take it seriously.

Negative. It has never been isolated and proven to exist. If there's no isolate, there can be no accurate testing. It also has not passed even ONE of the 4 Koch's postulates criteria.

So it begs the question.. what exactly are the PCR tests testing for? They are testing for ANY strain of the coronavirus family. The most common is the cold virus, which literally everyone has had.

So no doubt, people are testing 'positive'. But it's a false positive, as it's not following the true scientific method.

The media in the US can propagandize the public after the repeal of the Smith-Mundt act. So they can 'legally' lie to the public about the COVID-19 deaths and not be held accountable.. But how about the rest of the world? How can they be deceived?

Well it's a good question. But who is the 'Father of lies'? Satan is (John 8:44), and we're living in his kingdom.

The whole world is under a strong delusion right now.. one of many.

Yes, people are dying. They do every day. Could there be some virus causing it? Sure. But let's be diligent in seeking out the truth in these things so that we're not deceived. The irrational fear has probably caused more deaths/damage in the long run than any virus could've done.

God bless
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: lareli on December 17, 2020, 09:53:21 PM
Ok. Real or not. Let’s not have a thread about that. It will get shut down as this is an issue that is dividing everyone like other issues right now. Do you guys see things getting better and less turbulent in the world over the coming months? Or do you feel things will get more turbulent and people more divided?
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: Shawn from Georgia on December 17, 2020, 09:58:36 PM
Ok. Real or not. Let’s not have a thread about that. It will get shut down as this is an issue that is dividing everyone like other issues right now. Do you guys see things getting better and less turbulent in the world over the coming months? Or do you feel things will get more turbulent and people more divided?

It will get more divided.

I believe we're being separated right now. Sheep and goats. The sheep love the Truth, and will follow the good shepherd. The goats will not.

Hard times are ahead, especially in the US, i'm afraid. But God's will be done.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: indianabob on December 18, 2020, 05:52:10 PM
Friend Shawn,

I believe that your reference to sheep and goats is from a parable in Matt 25:31 which does not occur until after the return of Lord Jesus and the final judgment. What we see happening now has been happening since Lord Jesus ascended although it seems more intense during these last days, especially since we have world wide communication.
see also Matt 13:49, 2Cor 5:10
Indiana Bob
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: nshan on December 18, 2020, 08:46:12 PM
Friend Shawn,

I believe that your reference to sheep and goats is from a parable in Matt 25:31 which does not occur until after the return of Lord Jesus and the final judgment. What we see happening now has been happening since Lord Jesus ascended although it seems more intense during these last days, especially since we have world wide communication.
see also Matt 13:49, 2Cor 5:10
Indiana Bob

Hey Bob, I think the sheep and goats thing is a very common theme not limited to just this parable - it's happening now:

Joh 10:16  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. 

Joh 10:22  And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. 
Joh 10:23  And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 
Joh 10:24  Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 
Joh 10:25  Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 
Joh 10:26  But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 
Joh 10:27  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 


If they aren't sheep then they're either the other sheep God is bringing into his fold or goats
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: Dennis Vogel on December 19, 2020, 04:50:38 AM
Many people have died from COVID but the numbers seem to be inflated.

One reason is the hospitals get paid a LOT of money for each COVID admittance or death. A lot of temptation.

Quote
Also, earlier this month, HHS announced a second round of federal relief for hospitals in high impact areas, totaling $10 billion.

Of that second-round money, HHS reported 63 California hospitals received $50,000 for each eligible coronavirus patient they admitted between Jan. 1 and June 10, 2020. That's a combined total of more than $607 million.

https://www.abc10.com/article/news/verify/verify-do-hospitals-get-more-funding-by-marking-deaths-covid-19-related/103-36834bad-1113-4f67-8804-5d97e6593745 (https://www.abc10.com/article/news/verify/verify-do-hospitals-get-more-funding-by-marking-deaths-covid-19-related/103-36834bad-1113-4f67-8804-5d97e6593745)

And

https://youtu.be/5ZEpdy_MbhY (https://youtu.be/5ZEpdy_MbhY)

Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: ZekeSr on December 19, 2020, 12:33:14 PM
I just saw a broadcast asserting that no less than 50% of all adults are suffering from anxiety disorders due to the lockdowns, social distancing, masks, and the endless negative media hype. I’m not trying to imply that I know the best way to handle the situation, but the collateral damage is mounting. Undiagnosed and untreated diseases, lost incomes and businesses, collapsing economies … and now, monetary hyperinflation is on the horizon. Fudging the statistics for financial gain does not help. It contributes to all of the above. Those in the medical business should know better. Unfortunately, it is a business that, on a certain level, does not necessarily have the best interest of the people in mind. Very soon, our society is going reach the point of “The operation was a success, but the patient died.” 
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: Dave in Tenn on December 19, 2020, 05:47:38 PM
"According to the US Department of Health and Human Services [HHS] which oversees the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, under the federal coronavirus aid relief bill known as the CARES Act, hospitals get an extra 20% in Medicare reimbursements on top of traditional rates due to the public health emergency.

That's for COVID-19 related admissions, which can include deaths. The pay-out amount varies, according to a medicare spokesperson who said "medicare adjusts hospital payment based on geographic variation in local costs."

An extra 20% in Medicare reimbursements seems fine to me, given the risks to front-line health-care workers and added difficulty for institutions.

If hospitals are inflating numbers of Covid cases, then that means they are treating people who don't have Covid as though they did have Covid.  (Or else they are inventing fictional patients).  Sounds like malpractice to me.  That sounds highly unlikely to me as a money-making scheme.  Are private insurers up in arms--those with actual money to lose?

As for collateral damages, it could be argued that they are self-inflicted in the broader society.  If we had only done such and such sooner and more effectively, then maybe...  Thart question will never be fully answered in the US.  We'd have to look abroad for alternative outcomes.

So I wonder how much extra Medicare pays to  hospitals in other countries?  I'm betting it doesn't pay anything at all.  (I speak as a fool).


You see the waves raging, Lareli?

 
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: Dennis Vogel on December 19, 2020, 09:10:27 PM
I don't have a problem with 20% either. But if you looked at the link you'll see CA gets $50k per patient which sounds like more than 20%.

What they are doing is testing and if the patient died of something other than COVID they are still listing it as a COVID death to get that extra income. Hard to resist.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: zvezda on December 26, 2020, 01:07:40 PM
Matthew 24
37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;
39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

There are a few old threads about the days of Noah. Some members said the last days would be business as usual until the flood (God's wrath) came. But I pointed out v38 that it was business as usual until the day Noah entered the ark (v38), not until the day when the flood came.

And the flood didn't come immediately after Noah entered the ark. It started raining seven days after they entered the ark.

Genesis 7
4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."
10 And after the seven days the floodwaters came on the earth.

So it's business as usual until Noah (the elect) entered the ark, then 7 days later the flood came. We don't know what happened outside the ark during those 7 days.

But this year definitely is business NOT as usual. I have been wondering if it means we are in the "7-day period" before the "flood" comes, if so, then this year is just the start of raining and it will get much more rough.

Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: Dennis Vogel on December 26, 2020, 02:58:54 PM
Concordant:
Gen 7:4 For in seven days further I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights; and I will wipe out, off the surface of the entire ground, everyone who has risen, whom I have made.

I looked up partitively which is in Strongs definition of earth/ground and it means:

Google:
"par·ti·tive. (pär′tĭ-tĭv) adj. 1. Dividing or serving to divide something into parts; marked by division."

Strongs of earth/ground:
"From an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land): -    X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X nations, way, + wilderness, world."

Ray proves from the scriptures that the flood did not cover the entire earth: https://youtu.be/Fie4lGQ_9kU (https://youtu.be/Fie4lGQ_9kU)

Gen 7:20  Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. 
Gen 8:4  And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat. 

We know that the word "mountains" could or should have been translated "hills"

Strong's H2022 definition of mountain:
A shortened form of H2042; a mountain or range of hills (sometimes used figuratively): - hill (country), mount (-ain), X promotion.

And we just have an idea about how long a "cubit" is but 'fifteen cubits' seems to be about 23 to 30 feet.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: nshan on December 26, 2020, 04:29:00 PM
Concordant:
Gen 7:4 For in seven days further I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights; and I will wipe out, off the surface of the entire ground, everyone who has risen, whom I have made.

I looked up partitively which is in Strongs definition of earth/ground and it means:

Google:
"par·ti·tive. (pär′tĭ-tĭv) adj. 1. Dividing or serving to divide something into parts; marked by division."

Strongs of earth/ground:
"From an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land): -    X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X nations, way, + wilderness, world."

Ray proves from the scriptures that the flood did not cover the entire earth: https://youtu.be/Fie4lGQ_9kU (https://youtu.be/Fie4lGQ_9kU)

Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
Gen 8:4  And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

We know that the word "mountains" could or should have been translated "hills"

Strong's H2022 definition of mountain:
A shortened form of H2042; a mountain or range of hills (sometimes used figuratively): - hill (country), mount (-ain), X promotion.

And we just have an idea about how long a "cubit" is but 'fifteen cubits' seems to be about 23 to 30 feet.

It either destroyed all flesh save Noah or not you can't pick and choose. You can easily see this from G2889, H3605, etc. and definitely check out H776. I hate these discussions because there's nothing fruitful but here goes:

No this has not definitely not been proven and the scriptures seem to strongly attest otherwise.

Old world destroyed - new one with divided nations after:
Pe 2:5  And spared not the old world [G2889], but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
Gen 10:32  These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

A little background:
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth [H776] and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

Flood waters covering the earth and destroying all (not some) flesh - everything DIED:
Gen 6:17  And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth [H776], to destroy all [H3605] flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth [H776] shall die.
Gen 9:11  And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all [H3605] flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
Gen 9:12  And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every [H3605] living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
Gen 9:13  I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
Gen 9:14  And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
Gen 9:15  And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.


A verse you quoted:
For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth [H776] forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth [H6640 + H127 = face of the earth].

H6640 + H127 in action:
Gen 2:6  But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Gen 6:1  And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen 7:23  And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

It's easy to tell when it's talking about a particular piece of land and not the entire earth like in 1Ki 8:40 etc. but in these instances about Noah it's extremely obvious it refers to the entire earth. I'll just choose to believe in God saying he only spared Noah and his family and then divided the nations - if you don't that's fine but I'd rather not be lumped with those who believe that not all flesh was destroyed and show that there are a few who still believe that.

Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: indianabob on December 26, 2020, 08:01:50 PM
nshan,
I agree with what you have presented.
This is a difficult subject for many sincere persons to accept.
There are in my own experience reasonable and logical explanations of how the world wide flood may have happened and not have refuted true scientific fact, but those explanations are still unprovable. In other words we won't be able to know for sure until we ask our Lord Jesus the Christ.
=
Just one hypothesis on how the waters may have covered all the high hills is that there were no six mile high mountains until after the disruption caused at the same time as the flood.
=
Is God who created an 8000 mile diameter earthen ball in space able to manipulate its surface by a few miles? For example 1/1000 of its total diameter? I think it is possible, but I cannot prove it.
So then the debate is not going to make skeptics believe and therefore could be counter productive.

Thank you for your biblical research and good intentions.
Indiana Bob
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: Dennis Vogel on December 26, 2020, 08:04:01 PM
nshan, you have to make sure everything is translated properly.

Did you watch Ray's video? You need watch it. There is no wiggle room.

It was a local flood that could have covered hundreds of sq miles but not cover the entire earth with five mile high water that had no place to go.

Watch the video and tell us where it's wrong.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: Dennis Vogel on December 26, 2020, 08:06:20 PM
nshan,
I agree with what you have presented.
This is a difficult subject for many sincere persons to accept.
There are in my own experience reasonable and logical explanations of how the world wide flood may have happened and not have refuted true scientific fact, but those explanations are still unprovable. In other words we won't be able to know for sure until we ask our Lord Jesus the Christ.
=
Just one hypothesis on how the waters may have covered all the high hills is that there were no six mile high mountains until after the disruption caused at the same time as the flood.
=
Is God who created an 8000 mile diameter earthen ball in space able to manipulate its surface by a few miles? For example 1/1000 of its total diameter? I think it is possible, but I cannot prove it.
So then the debate is not going to make skeptics believe and therefore could be counter productive.

Thank you for your biblical research and good intentions.
Indiana Bob

Same question Bob. Did you watch the video? If so, where is it wrong. And where did five miles of water that supposedly covered the earth go?

Watch the video to the end.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: indianabob on December 26, 2020, 08:24:05 PM
Friend Dennis,
I want to avoid too much heat in this issue so I will answer privately after I have watched the video and given the subject some more thought.
Thanks for your patience, Bob  :)
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: Dennis Vogel on December 26, 2020, 09:21:40 PM
In this verse Strong's H2022 is translated mountains.

Gen 7:20  Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

But in these verses Strong's H2022 is translated 'hill' or 'hills' (exact same Hebrew word also translated mountain or mountains).

Gen 7:19  And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

Exo 24:4  And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.

Num 14:44  But they presumed to go up unto the hill top: nevertheless the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and Moses, departed not out of the camp.

Num 14:45  Then the Amalekites came down, and the Canaanites which dwelt in that hill, and smote them, and discomfited them, even unto Hormah.

Deu 1:7  Turn you, and take your journey, and go to the mount of the Amorites, and unto all the places nigh thereunto, in the plain, in the hills, and in the vale, and in the south, and by the sea side, to the land of the Canaanites, and unto Lebanon, unto the great river, the river Euphrates.

Deu 1:41  Then ye answered and said unto me, We have sinned against the LORD, we will go up and fight, according to all that the LORD our God commanded us. And when ye had girded on every man his weapons of war, ye were ready to go up into the hill.

Deu 1:43  So I spake unto you; and ye would not hear, but rebelled against the commandment of the LORD, and went presumptuously up into the hill.

Deu 8:7  For the LORD thy God bringeth thee into a good land, a land of brooks of water, of fountains and depths that spring out of valleys and hills;

Jos 9:1  And it came to pass, when all the kings which were on this side Jordan, in the hills, and in the valleys, and in all the coasts of the great sea over against Lebanon, the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite, heard thereof;

Jos 10:40  So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded.

Jos 11:16  So Joshua took all that land, the hills, and all the south country, and all the land of Goshen, and the valley, and the plain, and the mountain of Israel, and the valley of the same;

Jos 15:9  And the border was drawn from the top of the hill unto the fountain of the water of Nephtoah, and went out to the cities of mount Ephron; and the border was drawn to Baalah, which is Kirjathjearim:

Jos 17:16  And the children of Joseph said, The hill is not enough for us: and all the Canaanites that dwell in the land of the valley have chariots of iron, both they who are of Bethshean and her towns, and they who are of the valley of Jezreel.

Jos 18:13  And the border went over from thence toward Luz, to the side of Luz, which is Bethel, southward; and the border descended to Atarothadar, near the hill that lieth on the south side of the nether Bethhoron.

Jos 18:14  And the border was drawn thence, and compassed the corner of the sea southward, from the hill that lieth before Bethhoron southward; and the goings out thereof were at Kirjathbaal, which is Kirjathjearim, a city of the children of Judah: this was the west quarter.

Jos 21:11  And they gave them the city of Arba the father of Anak, which city is Hebron, in the hill country of Judah, with the suburbs thereof round about it.

Jos 24:30  And they buried him in the border of his inheritance in Timnathserah, which is in mount Ephraim, on the north side of the hill of Gaash.

Jdg 2:9  And they buried him in the border of his inheritance in Timnathheres, in the mount of Ephraim, on the north side of the hill Gaash.

I quit here about one third of the way thru the Old Testament. But I know there are many, many more times where H2022 is translated hill or hills.

The water covered the hills, not the mountains. It was a local flood.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: Porter on December 26, 2020, 09:55:56 PM


It either destroyed all flesh save Noah or not you can't pick and choose. You can easily see this from G2889, H3605, etc. and definitely check out H776. I hate these discussions because there's nothing fruitful but here goes:

No this has not definitely not been proven and the scriptures seem to strongly attest otherwise.

Old world destroyed - new one with divided nations after:
Pe 2:5  And spared not the old world [G2889], but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

I read your statement with an open mind and even thought to myself you may be right. So I just had to know for myself just in case I understood the flood wrong. So I dug around and found some interesting things.

https://bible-truths.com/lake2.html
Understand that when I use the word "Christendom" I am making reference to Webster's second definition, "The world of Christianity." World in the Greek New Testament is kosmos meaning the system or orderly arrangement of the whole or some part of human society. And so it is this world or system of doctrines and beliefs promulgated by the clergy and theologians of the institutionalized church that I make reference to when using this term. I am not making specific reference to individual members of the "Christian" church who may or may not hold dear to their hearts all of the doctrines of mainstream Christendom. It is sadly true that many who profess Christianity do not know or understand the doctrines of those they follow.


Then I went digging around for an alternate source for a definition of the Greek word kosmos, and this is what I found.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmos

In theology, the cosmos is the created heavenly bodies (sun, moon, wandering stars, and fixed stars). The concept of cosmos as the created universe and its arrangement has been important in Christendom since its very inception, as it is heavily used in the New Testament and occurs over 180 times.[10] In Christian theology, the word is sometimes used synonymously with aion[11] to refer to "worldly life" or "this world" or "this age" as opposed to the afterlife or world to come, although "aion/aeon" is also at times used in a more other-worldly sense as the eternal plane of the divine [12]


https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/kosmos.html

    an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
    ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:
    the world, the universe
    the circle of the earth, the earth
    the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
    the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
    world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
        the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
        any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
            the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
            of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19
        NAS Word Usage - Total: 186[/t]
adornment 1, world 184, world's 1[/t][/t][/t][/t][/t][/t][/t][/t][/t][/t][/t][/t]
        --------
 The words ornament and decoration kept coming up in some of these definitions and reminded me of when Jesus spoke of His Bride and or the destroying of the temple.

        Luk 21:5  And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
        Luk 21:6  As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
       
       
        1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning, let it be—not the outward, of plaiting the hair and wearing golden ornaments, or putting on of apparel,
        1Pe 3:4 But the hidden character, of the heart,—in the incorruptible ornament of the quiet, and meek, spirit, which is, in presence of God, of great price.
        1Pe 3:5 For, so, at one time, the holy women also, who directed their hope towards God, used to adorn themselves, being in submission unto their own husbands:
        1Pe 3:6 As, Sarah, was obedient unto Abraham, calling him, lord,—whose children ye have become—so long as ye are doing good, and not bringing yourselves into fear of any single cause of alarm.
       
       
       
        Rev 17:4  The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, adorned with gold, precious stones, and pearls. She had a gold cup in her hand filled with everything vile and with the impurities of her prostitution.
        Rev 17:5  On her forehead a cryptic name was written: BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE VILE THINGS OF THE EARTH
       

        Rev 18:15  The merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand far off in fear of her torment, weeping and mourning,
        Rev 18:16  saying: Woe, woe, the great city, clothed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, adorned with gold, precious stones, and pearls;
        Rev 18:17  because in a single hour such fabulous wealth was destroyed! And every shipmaster, seafarer, the sailors, and all who do business by sea, stood far off
       

       
        Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for, the first heaven and the first earth, have passed away, and, the sea, is no more.
        Rev 21:2 And, the holy city, new Jerusalem, saw I coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

There are many more like the verses above that describe Christ's Church "of the heavens" and the Church "of the earth" being adorned and decorated, either inwardly or outwardly, if that makes sense.

I'm not gonna try and change your mind nshan about what literally happened during Noah's flood, because I truly think it does not matter. However, could we agree about the spiritual aspect found in this type or shadow of Noah's flood? You do know it represents judgment in the 'lake of fire' against the earthly Church, which the Elect of God (like Noah and his family) will escape?

How important is it to believe and understand what literally took place at that time? That's a sincere question. Also, please stop with this self righteous attitude and remarks, it's petty. If you think this forum is often fruitless in it's discussions, why bother responding? Should I thank you for condescending to my level and blessing me with your knowledge? Are we not all students of Christ?
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: nshan on December 26, 2020, 10:18:46 PM
In this verse Strong's H2022 is translated mountains.

Gen 7:20  Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

But in these verses Strong's H2022 is translated 'hill' or 'hills' (exact same Hebrew word also translated mountain or mountains).

Gen 7:19  And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

Exo 24:4  And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.

Num 14:44  But they presumed to go up unto the hill top: nevertheless the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and Moses, departed not out of the camp.

Num 14:45  Then the Amalekites came down, and the Canaanites which dwelt in that hill, and smote them, and discomfited them, even unto Hormah.

Deu 1:7  Turn you, and take your journey, and go to the mount of the Amorites, and unto all the places nigh thereunto, in the plain, in the hills, and in the vale, and in the south, and by the sea side, to the land of the Canaanites, and unto Lebanon, unto the great river, the river Euphrates.

Deu 1:41  Then ye answered and said unto me, We have sinned against the LORD, we will go up and fight, according to all that the LORD our God commanded us. And when ye had girded on every man his weapons of war, ye were ready to go up into the hill.

Deu 1:43  So I spake unto you; and ye would not hear, but rebelled against the commandment of the LORD, and went presumptuously up into the hill.

Deu 8:7  For the LORD thy God bringeth thee into a good land, a land of brooks of water, of fountains and depths that spring out of valleys and hills;

Jos 9:1  And it came to pass, when all the kings which were on this side Jordan, in the hills, and in the valleys, and in all the coasts of the great sea over against Lebanon, the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite, heard thereof;

Jos 10:40  So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded.

Jos 11:16  So Joshua took all that land, the hills, and all the south country, and all the land of Goshen, and the valley, and the plain, and the mountain of Israel, and the valley of the same;

Jos 15:9  And the border was drawn from the top of the hill unto the fountain of the water of Nephtoah, and went out to the cities of mount Ephron; and the border was drawn to Baalah, which is Kirjathjearim:

Jos 17:16  And the children of Joseph said, The hill is not enough for us: and all the Canaanites that dwell in the land of the valley have chariots of iron, both they who are of Bethshean and her towns, and they who are of the valley of Jezreel.

Jos 18:13  And the border went over from thence toward Luz, to the side of Luz, which is Bethel, southward; and the border descended to Atarothadar, near the hill that lieth on the south side of the nether Bethhoron.

Jos 18:14  And the border was drawn thence, and compassed the corner of the sea southward, from the hill that lieth before Bethhoron southward; and the goings out thereof were at Kirjathbaal, which is Kirjathjearim, a city of the children of Judah: this was the west quarter.

Jos 21:11  And they gave them the city of Arba the father of Anak, which city is Hebron, in the hill country of Judah, with the suburbs thereof round about it.

Jos 24:30  And they buried him in the border of his inheritance in Timnathserah, which is in mount Ephraim, on the north side of the hill of Gaash.

Jdg 2:9  And they buried him in the border of his inheritance in Timnathheres, in the mount of Ephraim, on the north side of the hill Gaash.

I quit here about one third of the way thru the Old Testament. But I know there are many, many more times where H2022 is translated hill or hills.

The water covered the hills, not the mountains. It was a local flood.


Your verses about a range of hills do not negate anything I have presented above. It wasn't a local flood otherwise ALL flesh under heaven wouldn't have died and the nations would not be split. It even says it covered the earth - ALL of terra was covered and so even the birds died as there was no land. ALL of the earth was covered. All flesh died. How simple can it get?

Gen 6:17  And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth [H776], to destroy all [H3605] flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth [H776] shall die.

Do you just believe SOME of the earth died? Then you definitely don't believe all flesh, save Noah and his family, under heaven died.

I hope you also realize that H4480 + H4605 can mean above / over? If you read the previous verses, when the water was prevailing against the Earth, they assumed they were 15 cubits above the earth and that the mountains themselves were covered. You don't even need to look up these words.

Gen 7:18  And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. 
Gen 7:19  And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills [H1364 + H2022 - high hills are mountains], that were under the whole heaven, were covered. 
Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward [H4480 H4605] did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.


As I said before - I loved Ray's original writings before he said anything about multiple Adams and local floods. At this point I think it's just grasping at straws to fit the current Zeitgeist.

Quote
How important is it to believe and understand what literally took place at that time? That's a sincere question. Also, please stop with this self righteous attitude and remarks, it's petty. If you think this forum is often fruitless in it's discussions, why bother responding? Should I thank you for condescending to my level and blessing me with your knowledge? Are we not all students of Christ?

First the physical than the spiritual. If you cannot even believe anything that happened physical then how can you even begin to discern the spirit? Of course I know these meanings of Noah and Christ being our ark etc. but I don't think I'm being self righteous. If you think quoting scripture is self righteous and petty then that's not my problem. If you were a student of Christ then would you be offended by these words too? Jesus called the two on the road to Emmaus fools (they were his followers) and rebuked James and John when they wanted to rain fire on a Samaritan village. If you have something against me then just message me in private if you think I'm being as unloving as believing the scriptures and wanting everyone to have understanding.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: Dennis Vogel on December 27, 2020, 02:52:19 PM
As Ray has said many times nshan, "you've got to pay attention to all the words." The word 'all' does not always mean what we think of as all.

Strong's H3605 (all)
From H3634; properly the whole; hence all, any or every (in the singular only, but often in a plural sense): - (in) all (manner, [ye]), altogether, any (manner), enough, every (one, place, thing), howsoever, as many as, [no-] thing, ought, whatsoever, (the) whole, whoso (-ever).

Here: https://youtu.be/6GTFLg-sDzs (https://youtu.be/6GTFLg-sDzs)  Ray proves all does not always mean what we think of as all, with many examples.

Strongs definition of earth:
"From an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land): -    X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X nations, way, + wilderness, world."

Again I looked up partitively used to describe earth:

Google:
"par·ti·tive. (pär′tĭ-tĭv) adj. 1. Dividing or serving to divide something into parts; marked by division."

And again, Ray proves from the scriptures that the flood did not cover the entire earth: https://youtu.be/Fie4lGQ_9kU (https://youtu.be/Fie4lGQ_9kU)  I'll bet you have not watched that video.

You said: "Gen 7:19  And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills [H1364 + H2022 - high hills are mountains], that were under the whole heaven, were covered."

High hills are NOT mountains. They could have said 'mountains' if that's what they meant.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: nshan on December 27, 2020, 05:25:04 PM
As Ray has said many times nshan, "you've got to pay attention to all the words." The word 'all' does not always mean what we think of as all.

Strong's H3605 (all)
From H3634; properly the whole; hence all, any or every (in the singular only, but often in a plural sense): - (in) all (manner, [ye]), altogether, any (manner), enough, every (one, place, thing), howsoever, as many as, [no-] thing, ought, whatsoever, (the) whole, whoso (-ever).

Here: https://youtu.be/6GTFLg-sDzs (https://youtu.be/6GTFLg-sDzs)  Ray proves all does not always mean what we think of as all, with many examples.

Strongs definition of earth:
"From an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land): -    X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X nations, way, + wilderness, world."

Again I looked up partitively used to describe earth:

Google:
"par·ti·tive. (pär′tĭ-tĭv) adj. 1. Dividing or serving to divide something into parts; marked by division."

And again, Ray proves from the scriptures that the flood did not cover the entire earth: https://youtu.be/Fie4lGQ_9kU (https://youtu.be/Fie4lGQ_9kU)  I'll bet you have not watched that video.

You said: "Gen 7:19  And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills [H1364 + H2022 - high hills are mountains], that were under the whole heaven, were covered."

High hills are NOT mountains. They could have said 'mountains' if that's what they meant.
Sorry, I'd rather discuss the rest at another time and place. I do wish you would read a bit more of what I have presented above.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: lareli on December 30, 2020, 06:40:56 PM

You see the waves raging, Lareli?

Ya I see them raging just like everyone else.

Both fear and outrage are addicting and also contagious and both are spreading throughout the world like wildfire it seems. I don’t think it’s done having it’s way with us.

It’s been overwhelming and I confess I have felt suffocated by the wet blanket of anxiety/outrage that is blanketing society.. Dennis posted and reminded me in the other thread that..

No matter what happens I try to remember everything is part of God's plan.

I’m trying to keep that in the forefront of my mind. That while God can calm the waves with a word, He can also make them rage when He wants. And it’s all planned.  That helps me breathe.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: AwesomeSavior on January 10, 2021, 06:51:31 PM
Big Tech/Media blackouts and/or shutdowns may happen over the next 7-10 days.

Exciting times.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: indianabob on January 11, 2021, 12:13:09 AM
Many critics say that it is a good thing when those in power fear the people.
It tends to tame their lust for power and control.
Just wait until the creator of the earth turns His attention to their actions to corrupt the people...then they will know real fear.
May that day come soon.  :)
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: AwesomeSavior on January 11, 2021, 07:08:02 AM
Natural evil is circling the drain.

Proxy armies and tactics may be unleashed soon.

Pray for safety; watch what happens...
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: Dennis Vogel on January 11, 2021, 10:11:35 AM
Whatever these times are, they are all part of God's plan.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: AwesomeSavior on February 24, 2021, 12:53:45 AM
I'm sure there are plenty of people here who have seen more than one classic movie in their time.

A very good film from 1973 was called "The Sting", with Paul Newman, Robert Redford, and Robert Shaw as the bad guy.

You might want to have a second look; the reasons will be apparent in the not too distant future.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: indianabob on February 24, 2021, 02:10:30 AM
Hi Awesome,

Before I take the time to find and watch the sting again could you give us a little hint concerning
how you believe it relates to modern times. After all it was 1930 and depression, but how does a sting
relate to the general public today?
Thanks, Indiana B
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: AwesomeSavior on February 24, 2021, 09:10:56 AM
Hi Bob:

I cannot go into too much detail without breaking the rules, but I will say this:

What you are seeing play out on the eastern seaboard of the United States (and around the world) is like this movie, but on a level never before witnessed.

To give you a hint of what is happening in the State of the world, I will include this amusing short clip from the movie.

www.youtube.com/embed/_8g_JidtNCo

Edit:  When clicking the above link, you may get a message that says "Video unavailable. Watch on YouTube". Click the "Watch on YouTube" to see it.
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: indianabob on February 24, 2021, 02:48:23 PM
Hi again,
Thanks for sharing that clip.
Very interesting...
I think I'll wait for real life to develop and see what plays out.
Regards, I-bob
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: AwesomeSavior on February 26, 2021, 02:55:54 PM
Someone once said, "...you can't fool all the people all the time".

You are witnessing a 60 year plan in the making, now unfolding over the many years and in the final stretch.

If I told everything I know about this plan, some would want to call the men in white jackets and have me locked up in a rubber room with a straightjacket and crayons:

https://youtu.be/-jDPJysAeBA

This virus is real, but the fake PLANdemic (with all its fake numbers and mask wearing) comes to an end during the month of April. 

New financial system is coming, but it is not "the great reset". It will be for the benefit of the people, not the banksters. You won't lose your currency or benefits.

Things could get a little bumpy with some possible attacks; evil does not go down lightly.

Sometimes you can't tell people the truth; sometimes you must show them the truth.

It's going to be biblical..
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: indianabob on February 26, 2021, 05:28:35 PM
Hi Awesome,
Maybe you could pm me and not get adverse feed back for your unusual opinions. ;)
Indiana Bob
Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: Dave in Tenn on February 26, 2021, 10:51:40 PM
Someone once said, "...you can't fool all the people all the time".

You are witnessing a 60 year plan in the making, now unfolding over the many years and in the final stretch.

If I told everything I know about this plan, some would want to call the men in white jackets and have me locked up in a rubber room with a straightjacket and crayons:

https://youtu.be/-jDPJysAeBA

This virus is real, but the fake PLANdemic (with all its fake numbers and mask wearing) comes to an end during the month of April. 

New financial system is coming, but it is not "the great reset". It will be for the benefit of the people, not the banksters. You won't lose your currency or benefits.

Things could get a little bumpy with some possible attacks; evil does not go down lightly.

Sometimes you can't tell people the truth; sometimes you must show them the truth.

It's going to be biblical..

The same someone said, "You can fool some of the people some of the time."

I'll be satisfied if you can tell us after it happened just what it was that happened.  If not, I won't be satisfied at all.

Title: Re: State of the world
Post by: AwesomeSavior on February 27, 2021, 08:13:17 AM
Roger Wilco... (but at that point everyone will have seen the end of this movie, with all of its closing credits).