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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: love_magnified on June 02, 2006, 03:28:41 PM
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Dear Mr. Smith
In response to your doctrine of the Trinity or lack thereof, I have one portion of scripture to read to you: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1. Does this not say that Jesus and God were one person? I am very interested to see your standpoint on this verse. I am not asking for a lengthy response, but I am not opposed to one.
Thank you for your time,
Mr. O
Dear Mr. O:
So you believe that one can be "WITH" someone else and yet at the same time "BE" that other person that he is "WITH"? I am not asking for a lengthy response...........
God be with you,
Ray
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I don't have esword handy. Can someone post the translation info about this verse. I have actually heard that the translation should read "The word was toward God, and the word was God." Which means the Word is the visible image of the invisible God both points toward God and also has been given all rule and authority and thought it not pillaging to be equal with God. The originial translation does speak to that anyway, but I am curious about the original Greek.
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The Greek word translated 'with' does mean 'toward' but is also used as 'beside' or 'near.' Using the word 'with' does not seem to be wrong.
Brian
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It does give some understanding though. The Word (Christ) was toward God lends understanding to what "with" God means. The Word represents God, the visible image. The Word was God because nothing Christ does is of himself.
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For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, THE WORD, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and HIS NAME is called THE WORD "OF GOD".
Heb 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed TOWARD HIS NAME, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Buddy shows (caps mine)
The Greek word translated WITH does mean TOWARD but is also used as BESIDE or 'NEAR.' Using the word 'with' does not seem to be wrong.
Great meditation all are used
The word was WITH, Being His NAME is called The Word of God we see love TOWARD HIS NAME. Paul said the WORD is NEAR YOU. The Father is WITH HIM and we reign WITH HIM.
Lots of applications that are expressed elsewhere. Him being "The beginning". Knowing that IN "the Begining" "was" THE WORD and the WORD was WITH GOD (and was God). Jesus Christ is also "The Beginning" of "the creation". HE is very one the scriptures testified OF. Gods word (of Emannuel) God (His word) WITH US. We too becoming as He is or "like Him" a manifestion of His work and word in us.
Daniel
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For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, THE WORD, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Daniel
Daniel i don't believe that verse is legitimate, what verse is that again? There are some verses that use the Holy ghost, the father and Jesus Christ (such as the batpize verse) which were added in later by the translaters from a latin vulgate, i believe.
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For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, THE WORD, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Daniel
Daniel i don't believe that verse is legitimate, what verse is that again? There are some verses that use the Holy ghost, the father and Jesus Christ (such as the batpize verse) which were added in later by the translaters from a latin vulgate, i believe.
You might be right because Im no scholar but it still works in comparisons.
What of the three on earth such as water and blood and Spirit is that in there? Because I can trace it to a patern in Genesis speaking of Christ.
Adams SIDE out of which God made the woman. Second Adams SIDE (Jesus Christ) flowed "blood and water". In Gen 5 the Two becoming One types the One New man by the "Spirit". I can see these showing a picture pertaining to Jesus Christ. Especially in "formed, made, and created". Those three are present in scripture, at least in the patern.
To me it does not contradict especially the picture. But like I said, "I don't know" because I'm not a scholar and I will never understand all the technicalities :lol: Just seems to work thats all.
Thanks for telling me that, if true, I can zip it right off the verse to never quote again :D
Daniel
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Sorry, you asked me which verse that was I forget to share it :oops:
1John 5:7
I got the KJV so you got to keep me on my toes :lol:
Daniel
Edited in... hey how do you find out whether a verse is not in scripture? Anyone got a link for that verse, to check? Thanks in advance
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http://www.garnertedarmstrong.ws/feature_page_trinity001.shtml
http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch1.2.2.5.html
:shock:
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That was TWO witnesses... are we looking for a THIRD one?? :lol: :lol:
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Its not even an issue with me really, I see them as one but you can capture the blood and water John speaks of from Jesus Christ side.
You can also see after the death of Abel a Son being granted (in type) to Eve (after Cain killed Him). In Genesis 5 both male and female are at this point called ADAM which it speaks to me of being One with Him in Spirit.
He sends his Spirit and THEY are CREATED. He forms, he made, and he created three parts. Since the flesh counts for nothing in the first patern nothing is in it. In the Begining, LIGHT is FORMED.
Hey I've been dying to ask a scholarly type person who knows words well... Are the words on the seventh day correct? I see Created and made there and no mention of the word "form". Is this true? Because if it is, its pretty exciting :lol:
Daniel
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That was TWO witnesses... are we looking for a THIRD one?? :lol: :lol:
You know every matter (he conceals) is established by two of three witnesses. :lol:
Is the word "record" different from witness? Seems there is two records, isnt there? I need to check
Daniel
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If the disputed passage, therefore, be omitted as spurious, the whole passage will read, "For there are three that bear record, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three agree in one."
Still seems to be three that bear record.... only a question of the possible addition of the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost to support the "trinity" teachings??
Chrissie
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Chrissie I have spent over an hour reading all that muslim stuff! Goodness. I found it interesting but troubling. How much of his research can be believed. I never have read about Paul like that! :?
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:lol: Who can tell us concerning that verse? Is that scripture true or false ? How can I know to take it away or keep it?
Now you have me interested :lol:
Daniel
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:lol: Who can tell us concerning that verse? Is that scripture true or false ? How can I know to take it away or keep it?
Now you have me interested :lol:
Daniel
It is not part of the original manuscripts from what i know.
It was added in to add to the validity of the trinity since there was no scripture supporting the trinity.
Just take the example of when Jesus spoke of the Himself being the Vine and His father the farmer. There was no mention of the HOly spirit what so ever. Not in the rain, the land, the vine itself etc...
The holy spirit is Jesus Christ.
Jesus said "I send the comforter to you, i will not leave you bereaved, I AM COMING TO YOU."
Somewhere along the lines of that, can't find the exact verse for it.
The portion of the passage, in 1 John 5:7-8, whose genuineness is disputed, is included in brackets in the following quotation, as it stands in the common editions of the New Testament: "For there are three that bear record (in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness on earth,) the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three agree in one." If the disputed passage, therefore, be omitted as spurious, the whole passage will read, "For there are three that bear record, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three agree in one." The reasons which seem to me to prove that the passage included in brackets is spurious, and should not be regarded as a part of the inspired writings, are briefly the following:
I. It is missing in all the earlier Greek manuscripts, for it is found in NO Greek manuscript written before the 16th century. Indeed, it is found in only two Greek manuscripts of any age-one the Codex Montfortianus, or Britannicus, written in the beginning of the sixteenth century, and the other the Codex Ravianus, which is a mere transcript of the text, taken partly from the third edition of Stephen's New Testament, and partly from the Complutensian Polyglott. But it is incredible that a genuine passage of the New Testament should be missing in ALL the early Greek manuscripts.
II. It is missing in the earliest versions, and, indeed, in a large part of the versions of the New Testament which have been made in all former times. It is wanting in both the Syriac versions-one of which was made probably in the first century; in the Coptic, Armenian, Slavonic, Ethiopic, and Arabic.
III. It is never quoted by the Greek fathers in their controversies on the doctrine of the Trinity-a passage which would be so much in point, and which could not have failed to be quoted if it were genuine; and it is not referred to by the Latin fathers until the time of Vigilius, at the end of the 5 th century. If the passage were believed to be genuine-nay, if it were known at all to be in existence, and to have any probability in its favor-it is incredible that in all the controversies which occurred in regard to the divine nature, and in all the efforts to define the doctrine of the Trinity, this passage should never have been referred to. But it never was; for it must be plain to anyone who examines the subject with an unbiassed mind, that the passages which are relied on to prove that it was quoted by Athanasius, Cyprian, Augustin, etc., (Wetstein, II., p. 725) are not taken from this place, and are not such as they would have made if they had been acquainted with this passage, and had designed to quote it. IV. The argument against the passage from the external proof is confirmed by internal evidence, which makes it morally certain that it cannot be genuine.
VI. The passage is now omitted in the best editions of the Greek Testament, and regarded as spurious by the ablest critics. See Griesbach and Hahn. On the whole, therefore, the evidence seems to me to be clear that this passage is not a genuine portion of the inspired writings, and should not be appealed to in proof of the doctrine of the Trinity.
(from Barnes' Notes)
I do not believe that verse to be part of the original inspired manuscripts simply for the facts stated and that the bible does not support a trinity belief.
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lilitalienboi16
There is no argument for the "trinity" God is ONE. Men argue over that stuff not seeing the beauty of the scriptures bearing Jesus Christ witness. Even the measure of the wall (God) is the measure of a man, that is of an angel. A messenger is an angel, the messenger of the covenant, EVEN the LORD the one we seek ""comes" to the temple".
This is still true, as scripture shows this.
1John 5:6 This is HE that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only[/u], BUT by water and blood[/u]. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness[/b], because the Spirit is truth. (he hath not left us without a witness, this in ourselves)
John 19:3 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.[/u]
John 5:34 But I receive not testimony from man[/u]
John 19:35 And he that saw it bare record[/u], and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God (Which came by water and blood) hath THE witness IN HIMSELF:[/u] he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record "that God" gave of his Son.[/u]
The "parts"
First Adam was "formed" from the dust[/u] of the ground" ... dust is flesh and counts for nothing[/u] This forming means nothing in the equation.
There are two (the water and blood) even in scripture which bear Jesus Christ a witness to Him being the Son of God.
God made[/u] a "Woman" from Adams SIDE here's the two of the three witnesses which were a pattern of Jesus Christ (The Son of God) who came NOT by "water" only BUT water and blood
Heres the third (After the death of Abel which is important)
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in "the day" when they were created.
Psalm 104:30 Thou sendest forth THY SPIRIT, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.[/u] (The ONE NEW MAN Paul spoke of)
Heres the three parts expressive of being in Christ
Isaiah 43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.[/u]
Flesh counts for nothing in the "forming" from the dust of the ground. He "forms" the "light" in Christ. This speaks of Christ (the light) being "formed" in you. Expressed in the first day of Genesis, THIS "forming" is counted in the equation after a spiritual truth.
You can indeed see it in three parts which agree in one as He and the Father are one. Changes nothing with "an answer" but sure blesses me to capture the beauty of the blessed witness of Him of whom God spoke of in the scriptures.
Daniel
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:lol: Who can tell us concerning that verse? Is that scripture true or false ? How can I know to take it away or keep it?
Now you have me interested :lol:
Daniel
If you have an authorized version of the King James, it will tell you in the margin that this verse in its entirety was not found in any manuscript before the 14th century.
Brian
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:lol: Who can tell us concerning that verse? Is that scripture true or false ? How can I know to take it away or keep it?
Now you have me interested :lol:
Daniel
If you have an authorized version of the King James, it will tell you in the margin that this verse in its entirety was not found in any manuscript before the 14th century.
Brian
Thanks Brian, nah I use online only. To me I really don't have a problem with it being there or not. Scriptures testify of Him concerning the water and blood coming forth from His side. Even the record itself is in the gospel and the Spirit bears witness of Him. Taking from what is His and making it known to us.
Daniel
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Here is a possible way of looking at it.
Water and Blood = Jesus in flesh
Spirit = JESUS raised to life after death
But Jesus is come in the flesh, ours right now. As he is, so are we. So together, water, blood, and spirit are one.
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Here is a possible way of looking at it.
Water and Blood = Jesus in flesh
Spirit = JESUS raised to life after death
But Jesus is come in the flesh, ours right now. As he is, so are we. So together, water, blood, and spirit are one.
EXACTLY Love_Magnified, worded perfectly with few words :D
Daniel
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Here is a possible way of looking at it.
Water and Blood = Jesus in flesh
Spirit = JESUS raised to life after death
But Jesus is come in the flesh, ours right now. As he is, so are we. So together, water, blood, and spirit are one.
EXACTLY Love_Magnified, worded perfectly with few words :D
Daniel
Bask in the simplicity! :D
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Dear Mr. Smith
In response to your doctrine of the Trinity or lack thereof, I have one portion of scripture to read to you: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1. Does this not say that Jesus and God were one person? I am very interested to see your standpoint on this verse. I am not asking for a lengthy response, but I am not opposed to one.
Thank you for your time,
Mr. O
Dear Mr. O:
So you believe that one can be "WITH" someone else and yet at the same time "BE" that other person that he is "WITH"? I am not asking for a lengthy response...........
God be with you,
Ray
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I don't have esword handy. Can someone post the translation info about this verse. I have actually heard that the translation should read "The word was toward God, and the word was God." Which means the Word is the visible image of the invisible God both points toward God and also has been given all rule and authority and thought it not pillaging to be equal with God. The originial translation does speak to that anyway, but I am curious about the original Greek.
[size=14]According to the word of God. The Word made flesh. God can never more than one. Always one God.[/size]
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:lol: Who can tell us concerning that verse? Is that scripture true or false ? How can I know to take it away or keep it?
Now you have me interested :lol:
Daniel
The only way I can answer you in the book of Revelation 22:18 saying....
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And also can be found in the book of......Deut. 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
The way I understand this two verses to my own study are called partial law. The reason why they are partial law. If a man teaches the word of God.....
Example: Let's talked about tithing. If man teaches the tithing. Some of us we know the tithing is 10 %. The preacher will say... If you don't pay tithe - you are robbing God?
The reason why this one sound like is true but is false teaching. Because according to the law of Moses. You cannot bring your tithes and lay your tithes in every places without God approval. Because it is a curse.
You can only offer the tithe and offering to those gates where God choose the place in order to set His name. If God did not approved the place. You are not allowed to. Because it is forbidden. God has chosen 12 gates called the tribes of Israel. Remember the devil loves to place his own gates. This is the revelation God has given me from last year 2005.
That is the why Jesus said... upon this rock .. I will build my church and gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
So in my own study.... The 12 tribes are the gates. Since we are in the New testament Jesus chosen 12 apostles. So therefore the 12 apostles called foundation.
Remember... gates without no foundation will not stand. This is the reason why gates are important to God. Very sacred.
So therefore this is makes it add or diminish in the word God. Meaning they are teaching half of Old T. and half New T. If... they did follow all the rules and regulation in the old testament.
The Matthew 23:23 and Malachi 3:8-10 ( CURSE IS THE OATH) The answer for this message it is recorded in the book of ...... Daniel 9:11
Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.
I hope I had answer your question. I could explain more further. But I don't want to bore you. I love brother Smith teaching. God has reveal to him in different way. And God reveal it to me in different way. But is all true.
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R E A D everything on here..... http://www.bible-truths.com/
Rodger
I love brother Smith teaching. When I read that if you are a pastor. You feel like is the lowest saint. He cover pretty much all the area. It is good stuff. I love it!
The only thing that he did not cover is the forbidden part. Because the forbidden part is actually the curse. What is actually the curse is. What is the curse? My own study is... the curse is when people laying their tithes every place. This is actually the curse. Because God has to tell the us where to lay the tithes.
Just like when Moses God gave him instructions how to build the inside of the tabenarcle. The same way the Noah's Ark. Has to be build how God wants it. Not the way we want it. It has to God's way!
This is the reason why the laying the tithes every place is forbidden. Because of the false gods.
God only chosen 12 gates. Those gates are the only the Israel can bring their tithes. It was also recorded in Revelation.
Satan knows how to twist God's word from the beginning. Just like God wants you to have all the trees except one. The same way when God made covenant to Israel God only chose 12 gates to bring their tithes, offering, etc...
Satan tricks still exists today. He focus on one tree. Now Satan focusing all the gates spreading the gates for himself without God's approval.
If you and I go to Jerusalem. How can we tell which is the right tribes? So the main thing is to know the tribe of Israel. Therefore if we are trying to find out the history we must go to the gates where God chose to place His name and set it there.
Because not all the history are true. If we go to the wrong gates. Because there is so many idols been place in Jerusalem. This is the reason why the writer say.. not all are Israel? Because there is true Israel. The true Israel will say ....Deut. 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
Romans 9:6
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
That is the reason why this scripture. I did not really understand it before until I read all the regulation and rules about the tithings. It says.... James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
God gave me this in my dream 12 years ago. He gave me understanding How very sacred is the covenant for Israel.
Brother Smith he was right in his teaching. Thank God for him. Amen
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Hi Victoria,
I find your posts to be very confusing.
These things you say, about tithe and offering at 12 chosen gates,
and the forbidden part is the curse, is not scriptural.
Are you saying that you were given your understanding in dreams?
Do you feel you are being given truth beyond what we have in scripture?
If not then could you please use the scripture to back up what you are trying to say.
Joh 2:22 When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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Hi Victoria,
I find your posts to be very confusing.
These things you say, about tithe and offering at 12 chosen gates,
and the forbidden part is the curse, is not scriptural.
Are you saying that you were given your understanding in dreams?
Do you feel you are being given truth beyond what we have in scripture?
If not then could you please use the scripture to back up what you are trying to say.
Joh 2:22 When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
The Matthew 23:23 and Malachi 3:8-10 / The answers for this scriptures is revealed in the book of...... Daniel 9:11
Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.
Bro. Smith talked about the vow. So Jacob made vow to God. So if you did not made vow or oath to God you are not obligated. So people back then people love to made vow to God but yet do not do what they say. God hates the lying spirits. If you made promise you should do what you say. This is the part of the curse.
Deut. 23:21
When thou shalt vow a vow unto the Lord thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for the Lord thy God will surely require it of thee; and it would be sin in thee.
Warning! offer not!
Deut. 12:13
Take heed to thyself that thou offer not thy burnt offerings in every place that thou seest:
God choose the place
Deut. 12:11
Then there shall be a place which the Lord your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the Lord:
Thou shalt eat .... where? ...in thy gates
Deut. 12:21
If the place which the Lord thy God hath chosen to put his name there be too far from thee, then thou shalt kill of thy herd and of thy flock, which the Lord hath given thee, as I have commanded thee, and thou shalt eat in thy gates whatsoever thy soul lusteth after.
If you studying the endtimes. This will helps us to comprehend. Because this 12 tribes has significant meaning such as symbolic animals and etc...
12 tribes are sealed 144.000 thousand. This 12 tribes also called gates. The located gates are mention in ...Rev. 21:13
On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
Rev. 7:4
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Rev. 21:12
And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev. 21:14
And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
12 tribes of Israel called gates = Old Testament God chosen = Where God to set his name.
12 apostles called foundation = Jesus chosen 12 = Galatians 3:27 Note: We receive the name of Jesus when are baptized in His name. That is why the ones who have received it know his name, because you will be baptized in his name if you do not believe he is the one true God.
Revelation 14:1 They have his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Revelation 3:12 He will write upon him the name of God. The name of the city is revealed, but the name of God is not revealed except to say it will be his new name, now, we realize from the scripture that the new name is Jesus and remember the name in the foreheads was also the name of the Father, proving that the Father's new name is Jesus. He robed himself in the flesh and became a son, which made him Jehovah savior or Jesus.
Do you know where God place His name,and law in the New testament? Rev 14:1;3:12 Forehead, Heb. 10:16 mind, hearts.
What are the foundation of the wall? Precious stone. How thick is the wall? 144 cubic times 22 inches equals = 3,168 inches thick wall of that wall gates. Rev. 21:17-19.
Ezikiel 18:31-35 Gates are already settled and sealed in heaven!!! According to the of Revelation!
Note: We don't want to place another tribe do you? No such thing tribe 13! Will be anti christ system! Anti christ will shew himself in the temple.
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Hi Victoria,
I find your posts to be very confusing.
These things you say, about tithe and offering at 12 chosen gates,
and the forbidden part is the curse, is not scriptural.
Are you saying that you were given your understanding in dreams?
Do you feel you are being given truth beyond what we have in scripture?
If not then could you please use the scripture to back up what you are trying to say.
Joh 2:22 When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
This is my dream from 12 years ago. God gave me the interpretation about the dream from last year 2005. I wrote this letter this year 2006
Monday, August 14, 2006
Dear Saint of God,
Today is August 14, 2006. Monday 9:47 A.M. My name is Victoria. I was feeling bad inside of me. Soar I could not described. God show me things. He show me alot of things that I had never realize until now. We are all sinned against God. Cursed like God says. We need to mend our ways of doing. If not the cursed will come upon us.
Last year January 2005. God shows me about the tithing. But I never did pay attention. I saw alots of thing that I saw that really displeased me. I beginning to question God. If we have the Holy Ghost. Why I see this things that I should not see.
God's word always been the same. Even now. God never changes His word from the Old Testament and New Testament. All I want is to mend my ways of doing. I hope and pray you will do the same.
First I would like to share my dream. I had dream way back. Possilbilty it's been 12 years now or more. I had shared my dream to my Pastor. Way back.
In my dream there is a body. What I saw the body was scattered all over the floor. In my dream I pick up each flesh that is scattered in my dream. One by one pick it up and put them together as a puzzle. Untill the body made whole.
I ask my pastor what it mean. But I could not understand the meaning of it. I don't think I remember asking God what it meant. But this dream keep bring it back the memory to me. I believe God is trying to tell me something. But that time is not time yet to reveal it to me.
I know God is the revealer of all the secrets, dream and etc.... I believe God show me things in the church what is happening. Why people never stay. Always quit the church. There's always something comes up. Satan trying to destroyed them in different ways. Financially, hatred, jealousy, coveting, and different types of spirits that is not belong to God.
The dream that I had actually happen to the people in the Old Testament and New Testament. God keep warning them about the "Cursed" The flock are scattered is because they are not been fed right and not visited them.
Jeremiah 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord.
Jeremiah 23:2 Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord.
The pastor supposed to feeding the flock with knowledge and understanding according to Jeremiah 3:15. The book of Jeremiah, Malachi was referring to those pastors and priest that using the partial law. If they are abiding the law of Moses they need to do it all. The partial law still been transfers into this generation 2006. That is the reason why Jesus mention the tithes and the omitted part called law, faith,mercy and judgment.
The dream that I had is the "Cursed" from the Old Testament and it carry to the New Testament. On January 2005. God already dealing with me about the "Woe's" God keep directing me the scriptures in Matthew 23:23 and Malachi 3:10. This is the "Cursed" was been reveal in the book of Daniel 9:11 "Oath" Partial law.
This cursed is for the people who made sanctuary to God. Without God's approval. According to the Law of Moses. God has to approved the place before you can even bring your tithings and offering and other vows you made to God. It is against God's word to choose the place for yourself. This will be cursed upon us even now. According to Deut. 12:13 Take heed to thyself that thou offer not thy burnt offerings in every place that thou seest: God has to choose the place before you can even offer your tithings and offering that you made vow to God according to Deut. 12:5
But unto the place which the Lord your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come: Deut. 12:6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:
The reason why the "Cursed" still hanging with us. If the pastors continue collecting tithes which made under the law of oath. The cursed will be upon us. It is because collecting tithes using the partial law. Partial law is against God's word. According to the book of....Malachi 2:9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.
If you are going to use the law of Moses. You got to follow all the instruction, regulation, guidelines about the vows what Moses given to the 12 tribes by God. Besides you don't want to walk under the law. God already fulfill the law. We are now under the grace. For my own opinion let people give willingly not by oath.
There is a big different between tithing made vows and cheerful giver which is called voluntary giving,
The reason why the Dark Ages still creeping until now. Because the pastors and others still using the Law of Moses "Tithing - Oath" The problem causing them is using partial law makes it cursed. This is why...Eccles. 5:5 Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay.
The only thing is.. if you believed under the Law of Moses and do them. Which your generation "2006" this year. You are trying to place another tribe for yourself. It is because there is no such thing tribe 13. The reason why I say that. Before anybody can give the tithes and offering to God. God has to choose and approved the place where He can dwell. In order to stablish His name. If... you are under the law of Moses. But if you choose it for yourself to place His name. That is a big no. no. to God. Which mean we are violating the word of God.
I am sorry, that I have to share this message. I wasn't comfortable all these. But I am going to have to. Otherwise I will be answering for God. I am only simple person. Not a preacher. I am nobody. Please. I ask you to study further to divide the word of God. I had all the materials that I had put together. If you are interested I will mail it to you. This is the things that I had study. No outside history. Just the BIBLE. You can also share this letter to someone if you like.
Don't feel bad. Just preach the faith, mercy, judgment and law. The law is in the mind and hearts of men.
VOLUNTARY GIVING IS THE BEST WAY TO PREACH. WITHOUT ANY CURSED ATTACHED TO IT! GOD BLESS.
YOUR SISTER IN CHRIST,
VICTORIA
P.S. THE REASON WHY JACOB WHICH GOD RE-NAME HIM ISRAEL. JACOB PAY HIS VOWS TO GOD. THE REASON WHY ISRAEL NAME STILL EXIST TODAY. JACOB PAY HIS VOW. LET'S FIND OUT WHAT JACOB VOWS TO GOD. SHALL WE.
VOWS FOR HIS TITHING
Genesis 28:20
And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,
Genesis 28:22
And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
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Hi Victoria,
I still can not understand what your talking about.
But, what does it have to do with Bibletruths?
This forum is for discussing things pertaining to that web site.
If you have a question about anything there, we can relate to that.
I just don't know anything about all this stuff you keep talking about.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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ok i think i see it now.....
If my right eye looks to the left at the same time my left eye looks to the right, i see where this is going..... ;) :D ;D :D ;)
God bless
Rodger
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From what I have understood so far from Bible Truths is that God is a title meaning superior being, superior Diety and more importantly that God is not the name of God!
Arcturus
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Hi Victoria,
I still can not understand what your talking about.
But, what does it have to do with Bibletruths?
This forum is for discussing things pertaining to that web site.
If you have a question about anything there, we can relate to that.
I just don't know anything about all this stuff you keep talking about.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Do you read Bro. Smith teaching in the this website? Good teaching! I love his teaching. To respect me and respect you. May I share things that I learn. In order for you to learn also. Maybe you can teach me also what you have learn from brother Smith?
Do you know this is what Jesus says... they pay tithes .... but omited law, mercy, faith and judgement. They forgot how to be merciful, they forgot to say good things to others, they mocked people instead to make them understand what they are trying to say. They could not discern evil and good because of lack of judgement.
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Victoria bless your heart. I will have to admit I am a little confused my self.
As pertaining to the law,tithing,keeping the sabath, sacrifices,etc,,,. We are no longer under the law.
Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Galatians 3:9-11
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
bobby(bob)
I do not believe paying tithes. Paying tithes unscriptural in the new testament.
What I am trying to say is.... if person preaching the tithes under the law of Moses. They need to follow all the rules and regulations. This is what I am trying to accross.
There are two thing we need to remember if .... if.... if.... we are under the law of Moses.
Rule # 1 God choose the place first in order for you place the tithe. If.... if... you are under the law of Moses. According to this scriptures.
Deut. 12:11
Then there shall be a place which the Lord your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the Lord:
Rule # 2 = NOT ALLOWED TO CHOOSE YOUR OWN PLACE. If... if... if... your under the law of Moses.
Deut. 12:13
Take heed to thyself that thou offer not thy burnt offerings in every place that thou seest:
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Hi Victoria,
Do you know this is what Jesus says... they pay tithes .... but omited law, mercy, faith and judgement.
If I understand you correctly, you are saying this means that Ray teaches tithing?
If so, I will simply give you this heading from his title page.
Tithing is Unscriptural Under the New Testament Part's I and II
It is a sin to enforce tithing on New Testament Christians!
If this is not what you are saying, excuse the misunderstanding.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat