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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: hillsbororiver on September 18, 2008, 11:55:26 AM

Title: Blind?
Post by: hillsbororiver on September 18, 2008, 11:55:26 AM
Lately I have been thinking about how "the blind" or blind are portrayed in scripture and how might it apply to us, we all have been (spiritually) blind and we all still have (spiritual) blind sides, things we still cannot see.

However, we can neither blame ourselves or blame others for this as this is the condition we were born into, God has deemed it necessary that everyone should have this experience, not in the physical but most definitely in regard to spiritual things, it is interesting that the apostles/disciples did not recognize this in themselves when asking Jesus about the blind man here;

Joh 9:1  And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
 
Joh 9:2  And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind
 
Joh 9:3  Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Here are also a couple witnesses from the OT;   

Exo 4:11  And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

But here we also have this promise of correction, "that the works of God be made manifest."

Isa 42:16  And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.

We can neither take credit for or assign blame to our own or anyone else's spiritual sight, God gives it and God takes it away, if we have been blessed with this hunger and thirst for His Word, His Truth then that is the spiritual blindness which has begun to be healed.

The constant and consistant quest for wisdom, for knowledge is not within us of ourselves it is His healing power that inspires any of us to seek more Light and not be complacent with where we presently are. We tend to annoy those who are complacent when we seek and search for more, not contenting ourselves with the doctrines of men.

I thought of this condition, the blind man (men in Matthew Chapter 20) who would not be silenced, who continued to cry out to the Lord even after the multitude rebuked him and told him to hold his peace, could this be a type/shadow of His elect.


Luk 18:34  And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

I found it extremely interesting that the verse above immediately preceeded the following;
 
Luk 18:35  And it came to pass, that as he was come nigh unto Jericho, a certain blind man sat by the way side begging:
 
Luk 18:36  And hearing the multitude pass by, he asked what it meant.
 
Luk 18:37  And they told him, that Jesus of Nazareth passeth by.
 
Luk 18:38  And he cried, saying, Jesus, thou son of David, have mercy on me.
 
Luk 18:39  And they which went before rebuked him, that he should hold his peace: but he cried so much the more, Thou son of David, have mercy on me.
 
Luk 18:40  And Jesus stood, and commanded him to be brought unto him: and when he was come near, he asked him,
 
Luk 18:41  Saying, What wilt thou that I shall do unto thee? And he said, Lord, that I may receive my sight.
 
Luk 18:42  And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
 
Luk 18:43  And immediately he received his sight and followed him, glorifying God: and all the people, when they saw it, gave praise unto God.

Can you relate to this?

Peace,

Joe
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: OBrenda on September 18, 2008, 12:30:27 PM
Joe,

Would you mind if I copied this and sent it to a friend of mine?

This is really good & will help a situation...[not to mention me]  ;)

Thanks,
Brenda
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: hillsbororiver on September 18, 2008, 12:48:38 PM
Hi Brenda,

I wouldn't mind at all! 

Thank you,

Joe
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: Kat on September 18, 2008, 01:17:40 PM

Hi Joe,

Thank you, that was put together so well.  It is true we all are blind until God drags us to Him and removes that blindness.  It is certainly not something we choose or have any control over.

It is interesting that God showed Paul his spiritual blindness in a physical way and then removed both the physical blindness and the spiritual blindness from him at the same time.

Act 9:3  As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven.
v. 4  Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"

Act 9:8  Then Saul arose from the ground, and when his eyes were opened he saw no one. But they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus.
v. 9  And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

Act 9:15  But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
v. 16  For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."
v. 17  And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."
v. 18  Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once;

When I first started reading BT it truly was as if "suddenly a light shone around him (me) from heaven."  Of course not as dramatic as what happened to Paul, but the same results "Immediately there fell from his (my) eyes something like scales, and he (I) received his (my) sight at once."  Glory to God who makes the blind to see!

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: mharrell08 on September 18, 2008, 01:43:04 PM
Great post Joe.  :)

I can relate as I am still having many truths revealed to me all the time. Also, when speaking with one that is totally spiritually blind, it's almost as if I'm speaking a different language. I also find myself speaking in parables somewhat.

Like, I was speaking with my mother (devoted Christian) and she wondered why I sounded so strong when speaking against the doctrines of the Christian church. I told her how Jesus spoke of the religous leaders of his time like that as well. Well she then says that he only spoke to the Scribes and Pharisess that way and not his disciples. I told her "EXACTLY! That's how I speak about the modern day Pharisees of our time." She of course considers herself and other followers that she knows as disciples while at the same time believing in all kinds of Babylonian doctrines.

It is amazing how blind the members of Babylon can be! When I first had the spiritual scales pulled from my eyes, I saw that for all that time in the church, I had been SAUL. That was a very humbling experience. I tried to tell my mother the same, but does not see it that way in herself.

It's funny because everyone from Babylon believes they can 'see' just fine; just like Saul. It's only after the scales are removed that one realizes (1) What it means to be blind [knowledge of evil] and (2) What is means to SEE [knowledge of good].

God is awesome and amazing when it comes to putting a plan together.  ;D


Thanks,

Marques
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: Dave in Tenn on September 18, 2008, 02:04:49 PM
It's beautiful the way God laid out the story of the Blind man in Luke directly after the parables and 18:34, making it another parable for us. 

I don't think I'll stop marvelling at how quickly and miraculously God gave me eyes to see, but it's important to remember just what you said, Joe.  In my case, 51 years of blindness by the will of God.

I must admit to being one that has blind-spots still, though.  I thank the Lord that He is not finished yet, remembering that even Paul had things to learn after the road to Damascus as Kat shared from Acts 9:16  "For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."

Thanks ya'll. 

 
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: Richard D on September 18, 2008, 03:21:15 PM
Joe, Words have not the ability as to express what I understood from you’re post. I now know when the mountains are removed from my life and the valleys made smoothed so as I can see no obstacles in my life, that’s when Jesus will show me the deeper things within me that needs to be removed.

I also would like to thank you for that link to (How hard is it to get saved) it’s was humbling. I’ am but a tiny particle in a huge universe made by our God. With all my imperfections, fears and anxiety’s I can think of no other forum as this that I can receive God’s blessings, understanding and love as I have found here.  :)

                        Thank you. In His Love, Your friend and brother Richard.

 
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on September 18, 2008, 03:55:15 PM
Quote
we can neither blame ourselves or blame others
[/color]

I know what you mean Joe and you state this correctly that in truth we can NOT blame others yet we DO blame ourselves and others until we SEE that NO ONE has free will including ourselves, THEN only can we start to see that all is of God! It is very very difficult to see that. It is much easier to be blind and led by the multitudes.

I like that the blind man was not influenced by the multitudes but shouted even louder when told to keep quiet. He could see what the multitudes could not see and he was the one who received the miracle!

Pretty interesting.

Thank you

Arc.
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: aqrinc on September 18, 2008, 04:04:10 PM
Thank you Joe,

That was my condition for many years, even after i know i was made to turn around over 25 years ago.
I once was blind but now i see a little bit, (Truly Amazing IS HIS GRACE TOWARDS US) while we are yet sinners.
I am so happy now everyday since i first got the difference between (Aions and Eternity or Eternal and Judgement in the LOF).
My knees are bowed now and i confess (That JESUS CHRIST IS LORD; TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER ALMIGHTY).
After reading the Bible almost from cover to cover and years of accepting and then rejecting one false interpretation after another (Methodist, Catholic, JW, Adventist, Pentecostals, New Age, Eastern Mysticism, COG and many more, (NOW I CAN SEE).
PRAISE AND HONOR AND GLORY BE TO GOD AND HIS SON JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR

Geo.
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: hillsbororiver on September 18, 2008, 10:42:08 PM
Once again you folks added so much to the topic at hand, thank you all!

We spoke of how we all still have blind spots and cannot at this time see it all, actually we probably see very little of what one day we will know when we experience "the change." Paul saw this in himself too.

1Co 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

You know I am sure that if I were to really see myself as I truly am and saw Christ in His full glory that I could not bear it, I would be crushed, vaporized even.

Every now and then (not very often) usually after study and some deep meditation I have experienced what I believe to be a taste of His Holy presence, it starts out as a small glow of peace and contentment and begins to grow into a timeless all encompassing focus where I begin feeling a real sense of His all knowing wisdom and power.

It starts off as something most desirable, a feeling one would not want to let go of for anything but as this realization of Him grows and my own wretched self becomes in a clearer and clearer focus I find myself begging off, make it stop! I am not ready to see this in my present state. This has happened a few times and it always leaves me humbled to the core, praying for His grace to complete what He started in us, bringing us all to the place where we can bear being in His presence even as He is in His full glory!

Has anyone else had a similar feeling or experience?

His Peace to you all,

Joe
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: OBrenda on September 18, 2008, 11:17:33 PM
Hi Joe,

It has happened to me a few times also, I became fearful and it stopped.  Sometimes I have been told things.  Not sure what to make of it.  Time Stops, sounds are different, Joy runs over and I can hardly breathe.

Am I a kook?
B
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: EKnight on September 19, 2008, 12:21:05 AM
After reading Joe's post, I thought to myself 'I am not like people here. Sometimes I am not as dedicated to the journey as others seem to be'.  I wondered what words to use to express this.  Then, lo and behold, I read Amrhrasach's post.  That's it!!!  That's exactly how I feel.  I am so grateful for that post.  Now I don't have to think.

Thanks AM and thanks Joe.

Brenda, yeah you're a kook  :P  NOT!

Eileen
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: WhoAmI on September 19, 2008, 04:07:09 AM
Good stuff!


Look at Mark 10:50 " And he, CASTING AWAY HIS GARMENT, rose and came to Jesus."

You and I hold things that are prideful and falsely try to take the place of God. We must and will cast them aside as we go to Jesus.


Jeff
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: hillsbororiver on September 19, 2008, 08:22:21 AM
Hi Joe,

It has happened to me a few times also, I became fearful and it stopped.  Sometimes I have been told things.  Not sure what to make of it.  Time Stops, sounds are different, Joy runs over and I can hardly breathe.

Am I a kook?
B


Hi Brenda,

If you are at least you have company!  ;)

I think more folks have had this type of experience but are as reluctant to share it as those who see an Unidentified Flying Object or a Sasquatch type creature don't want to appear to be on the outer fringe.

To me this type of interaction with His Spirit knocks off a few more scales from our eyes, we see how we really are with no room for excuses or self justification, we see the stark contrast between His holiness and our own weak flesh, totally unvarnished and incomplete.

The following verses (like most) have multiple layers of truth contained within them, we have a certain unexplainable joy when we hear His Truth/Wisdom and begin to learn of His unfathomable love for creation, then when we are required to live (eat) the truth of what this  creation process to Sons and Daughters entails, we experience the bitterness of seeing how far we have to go, which is all a part of this progression.

Rev 10:8  And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
 
Rev 10:9  And I went unto the angel and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
 
Rev 10:10  And I took the little book out of the angel's hand and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

When we are living this book it truly is a bittersweet experience isn't it?

Peace,

Joe  
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: kweli on September 19, 2008, 08:59:56 AM
There's a verse I read a long time ago. It was some NT bible and I'm not sure if that's what it really says, but it went something like: The more you know, the more it hurts. If anybody knows this verse, please direct me to it. Because this is exactly how I feel now. Yet another great thread started by Joe. I dont know about a few more scales peeling off Joe, but I know it's bittersweet. Sometimes I think I cant handle the taste. But then HE always reminds me that this has absolutely nothing with my abilities.

Thanks again to everyone for what they shared on this topic.

All Glory to GOD

PS: Please dont forget to PM me the verse, if there is anything like that in the Scriptures
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: hillsbororiver on September 19, 2008, 09:15:03 AM
Hi Kweli,

Just checked in here right before leaving for the airport and I saw your post, thanks for the kind words Brother.

Is this what you are looking for?

Ecc 1:18  For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

Old Solomon nailed it didn't he?

Peace,

Joe
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: Sirach on September 19, 2008, 10:05:56 AM
I love reading these pearls on the forum.

Thanks Joe...but if you dont mind...i will thank God for using you to show me this  ;D

Thank you LORD
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on September 19, 2008, 03:26:54 PM
Hi Joe

I hope you have a really great time at the Conference!


You talk about living the "bitter sweet experience. "

Job was clear in his conscience but was unclear about his STATUS before God until he was given that bitter experience. Then only did he confess he was a worm and previously had not known any better.

The great prophet Isaiah also confessed that he was a man of unclean lips and had to experience the live coal taken out of the fire and touched to his lips which could not have been pleasant either.

Yes, we all have to experience our wretchedness and that is bitter and totally against what we would chose for ourselves. Hence we have to be dragged against our will and preferences to experience the magnitude of God that invariably by contrast shows up our imperfections.

The painfull separation from the masses that comes from letting go of false teachings and the need for healing from the grief brought about by shattered illusions of self righteousness is part of the process of getting cleaned up, humbled and prepared to stand in His sight. It is all His work because it is simply too bitter and painful to be chosen as a preference by the carnal mind.

Arc
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: OBrenda on September 19, 2008, 03:43:27 PM
Hi Joe

I hope you have a really great time at the Conference!


You talk about living the "bitter sweet experience. "

Job was clear in his conscience but was unclear about his STATUS before God until he was given that bitter experience. Then only did he confess he was a worm and previously had not known any better.

The great prophet Isaiah also confessed that he was a man of unclean lips and had to experience the live coal taken out of the fire and touched to his lips which could not have been pleasant either.

Yes, we all have to experience our wretchedness and that is bitter and totally against what we would chose for ourselves. Hence we have to be dragged against our will and preferences to experience the magnitude of God that invariably by contrast shows up our imperfections.

The painfull separation from the masses that comes from letting go of false teachings and the need for healing from the grief brought about by shattered illusions of self righteousness is part of the process of getting cleaned up, humbled and prepared to stand in His sight. It is all His work because it is simply too bitter and painful to be chosen as a preference by the carnal mind.

Arc


WOW...!   ;D
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on September 19, 2008, 04:02:31 PM
thanks... :)
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: aqrinc on September 19, 2008, 06:50:28 PM
Arc, thanks for that pointer. GOD BLESS AND KEEP US ALL.
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: Dave in Tenn on September 21, 2008, 11:25:08 PM
Let me share this.

I recieved my sight and believed the Gospel of the Kingdom over the course of one night.  For three days I did little else but read and contemplate what I had just read...10 to 12 hours a day.  Almost all joy and forgiveness and understanding.

On the third day, I sat in my chair still swimming in all this goodness.  Then the thought came to mind, "I wonder how I can share this knowledge, and I wonder how I can make a buck off of this through sharing it?"  That's the truth.  God let me entertain this thought for quite a while...hours...and I fantasized about all kinds of scenarios where I might turn this new knowledge into new income...all in the name of serving Christ, of course.  Then He pulled me up short, and showed me what kind of 'filthy rags' even my 'righteousness' was.  And that's when the vessel began to shatter. 

That's when I understood what this Gospel contained.  Righteous judgement, repentence, dethroning this I/Beast, sorrow, tribulation, the experience of evil, death to self.  And all of it is a gift of God--Grace, just as surely as forgiveness and sight are.  We can learn to be thankful for the hard work that God has to do in us as we wait on Him to do it.  We can learn to count it all joy when we believe in His purpose for it, just as we can count it joy knowing the ultimate destiny of all His creation. 

All of us have been protected from committing some sins.  Not everyone is a drunkard or a whoremonger, for example.  We aren't all even TEMPTED in all things.  But the one sin we are all subject to is this self-righteousness/beast on the Throne.  This we are born with.  And with every new self-promoting, self-crowning, self-powered 'act of righteousness' we actually grow in sin and away from God.  Christendom may detest some sins, but they actually reward this one.  That's why judgement must begin in the House of God.

I know I'm not saying anything new.  I hope it holds for a season because I don't think I'm to be posting 'deep thoughts' for a while. 

 

 

 
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: EKnight on September 21, 2008, 11:42:44 PM
You know, some posters here really seem to have a good grasp on Rays teachings, and you Dave, are one of them.  Why, despite my continued quest for wisdom, does God not give me the understanding and the words to express it?

Sometimes when I read the posts of others, I feel like maybe I am lost and have no business being here.  I know I am where God wants me to be but I've said it before and I'll say it again, sometimes I am completely lost.  It's frustrating and sometimes I want to give up.  :(

Hanging in there for now,
Eileen
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: Samarnon on September 21, 2008, 11:43:35 PM
Hi Joe

I hope you have a really great time at the Conference!


You talk about living the "bitter sweet experience. "

Job was clear in his conscience but was unclear about his STATUS before God until he was given that bitter experience. Then only did he confess he was a worm and previously had not known any better.

The great prophet Isaiah also confessed that he was a man of unclean lips and had to experience the live coal taken out of the fire and touched to his lips which could not have been pleasant either.

Yes, we all have to experience our wretchedness and that is bitter and totally against what we would chose for ourselves. Hence we have to be dragged against our will and preferences to experience the magnitude of God that invariably by contrast shows up our imperfections.

The painfull separation from the masses that comes from letting go of false teachings and the need for healing from the grief brought about by shattered illusions of self righteousness is part of the process of getting cleaned up, humbled and prepared to stand in His sight. It is all His work because it is simply too bitter and painful to be chosen as a preference by the carnal mind.

Arc


WOW...!   ;D

Arc/Deb,

A second WOW!!!

This is what I really missed from you.
Thank you dear lady for your great insight.

Love,
Joy
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: Dave in Tenn on September 22, 2008, 12:21:52 AM
Eileen, I felt like I was lost and had no business being there at the conference.   :D  You ever sat at a table with Kat and Joe and Rene and all these great posters?  We feel like we're lost because we are.  (I know they feel that way too). 

Isa 33:2  O LORD, be gracious unto us; we have waited for thee: be thou their arm every morning, our salvation also in the time of trouble.

Lam 3:22-24  The kindnesses of Jehovah! For we have not been consumed, For not ended have His mercies. New every morning, abundant is thy faithfulness. My portion is Jehovah, hath my soul said, Therefore I hope for Him.

 
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: Journeyman82 on September 22, 2008, 12:23:57 AM
This is my first post,  I have been aware of the truth for several years though i have constantly been at battle with what i know God wants from my life and the life i want to live.  I struggled with this all through college, and about two years ago i began dating someone who though i knew neither of us were spiritually prepared for the relationship, i believed we would help build each other and grow together.  Needless to say the whole relationship was very stressful and though we did try to encourage each other we never were able to get out of our worldy desires and troubles in our relationship. 

We broke up 3 weeks ago, and it has been the most difficult battle i have faced.  I was completely broke.  I had no where to turn, no one to turn to.  And since i have realized that God had done all of this for a reason, he put me in the only situation that i could possibly realize that there is no one, no thing other than God to bring peace to my life.  I had always relied on people or things to bring temporary happiness. 

So here i am, trying to believe God has a wonderful plan for me. Its a very difficult thing to do sometimes, i find myself going back to my carnal desires often and sometime feel as though im not strong enough to handle this.  It can be very overwhelming at times.  But I keep going to the word for encouragement and every time he has reminded me that he doesnt pick the strong and wise, he is with me and will give me the strength to overcome my obstacles.

If any of you have some encouraging thoughts for a "beginner" i would love to hear them.

Learning to love the Journey! 
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: WhoAmI on September 22, 2008, 12:34:04 AM
Journeyman82,

   I am not saying this to make you feel worse. But a lot of it is not going to get easier. I really think if you face the fact that it is not going to be easy and it is a fight then you can be more hopeful than trying to think some sort of paradise is around the corner. This is a very difficult process. This is not said to make you throw your hands up and give up but to just let you know this is how it goes. Endurance is the key.

Jeff
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: indianabob on September 22, 2008, 01:23:38 AM
You know, some posters here really seem to have a good grasp on Rays teachings, and you Dave, are one of them.  Why, despite my continued quest for wisdom, does God not give me the understanding and the words to express it?

Sometimes when I read the posts of others, I feel like maybe I am lost and have no business being here.  I know I am where God wants me to be but I've said it before and I'll say it again, sometimes I am completely lost.  It's frustrating and sometimes I want to give up.  :(

Hanging in there for now,
Eileen

Friend Eileen,

Having read a few of your post about your own family, I would venture a few comments offered in love but with enough candor to provoke you to pay attention.   If you are not ready for this adventure or if you are needing a smoke just now, please stop reading right here and come back when you feel more forgiving of an old man's unsolicited advice.

As I said, offered in love and with the approval of my better half Doris.  O.K. ?


= = = =

1. You seem concerned that you are not making progress in your understanding and /or not gaining as much spiritual insight as others on the forum.  Personally, I don't see this lack in you.  You explain things clearly when the topic is something with which you are familiar, so maybe you need to either be more selective about the topics you address OR even better start a topic yourself and make it something with which you have a deep interest.  Let the rest of us benefit from your extensive research or experience in a favorite area of interest.  Your college kids for example.  Or your husbands dreams for his or the family's future.  In other words look outside yourself from your home experiences in the same manner that you do when responding to forum questions.  We see you as quite friendly and helpful, but maybe you are selective and only write when you are in a good mood.  (smile)
In my own case, I almost always edit carefully before posting, just to be sure my comments are loving, but you will have to make that judgment about this message.  (smile)  Let me know how well or how poorly I did.  Thanks

The other topic I would like to share with you concerns your mention of how often you share forum topics and Ray Smith's teachings with family members who don't seem to appreciate it or can't understand.  This is quite normal as I'm sure you know and one piece of advice I would give since you have been trying to teach husband for a few months now, is to give it a break for a whole month, 30 days, and see what happens.  

Ask God for help and then focus your attention on your husband's interest, your children's interest and avoid speaking about your new knowledge, your concerns for your former church, your relatives and neighbors who still attend there and so forth.
This approach may present a challenge for you and may become a struggle, but it may also teach you a valuable lesson.

Consider how long you could maintain interest in the new truth you have learned if you were sharing your knowledge in the ladies circle or at the coffee shop with friends.  Compare that with the time you spend every day or every week sharing with a captive audience, your family, who can't walk away from the table or change the subject, or make the excuse that they have to get home to do the chores.  They may have thought of it, but since you know their plans it's almost as if you had them chained to the chair so that they have to listen.

I'm sure that your husbands loves you and wants to please, but how much of a struggle is it for him to remain polite and act interested when, as you have said, it just isn't getting through to him.

Now maybe I am stepping out of bounds here and maybe I am missing the point you had wanted to share.  If so, I hope you will forgive an old man who has made similar efforts to teach my family in the past.  What I have since learned is that my example is much more important than my speech or reasoning.

Also, I have the very important and great gift of knowing beyond doubt that my family will all be in God's kingdom and that I will be there to greet them when they are resurrected.  This special knowledge gives me peace of mind so that I am able to let them live their lives just as they please, mistakes and all.

Doris and I have four children and my youngest David, lived with his high school sweetheart for a few weeks leading to her becoming pregnant.  They split up in an angry fashion and she delivered the baby alone on May 5, 1990.  When we found out about the baby we had a DNA test and then accepted our Grandson as our own.  For the past 18 years we have helped to raise the boy and he has been in and out of our home and our local schools and suffered quite a lot due to the lack of family unity.  There is a lot more to the story but the point I wish to share is that on June 4th of this year he was killed in an auto accident and we sorely miss him.

However, my wife and I are at peace with the situation.  Brandon, who was not a member of any church and not a believer, will be in a resurrection and will be in God's family in due time.  That is what is important to us.

How he lived and how he died, so young and so early is also a serious loss for us and yet we have the blessed reassurance that his life will continue in the next instant of his consciousness.  His mother and her family, the other grandparents, DO NOT have that reassurance.  They are strict Catholic and could not accept our beliefs, so they are carrying this burden of regret and the thought that Brandon is in purgatory or hell or limbo waiting for them to make amends for their lack of love or for the mistakes they may have made with him, by not accepting him when he was a baby.

I feel so sorry for them, but I can't help them, I can't explain, they can't receive it, their eyes are blinded.

Some things we cannot change and so we must be satisfied to let God care for the situation in HIS good time even when it concerns family and friends who would give anything to have the burden of guilt removed.  What we can do is pray for them and treat them with the full respect of those who are yet to become members of the true church. When God is ready.

I hope this has been a little bit helpful and please let me know if I have said too much.
I'm still learning and I'm only a man  ;o)


Love and hugs Indiana Bob
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: kweli on September 22, 2008, 05:04:09 AM
Pearls, pearls and more pearls

Hello Arcturus. Welcome back and as always, thank you for your insight.

There's a line from the Matrix movie that I stuck with me for a very long time, and it goes something like "Ignorance is bliss". Now I understand exactly what that means.

I am not saying this to make you feel worse. But a lot of it is not going to get easier. I really think if you face the fact that it is not going to be easy and it is a fight then you can be more hopeful than trying to think some sort of paradise is around the corner. This is a very difficult process. This is not said to make you throw your hands up and give up but to just let you know this is how it goes. Endurance is the key.

Some things we cannot change and so we must be satisfied to let God care for the situation in HIS good time even when it concerns family and friends who would give anything to have the burden of guilt removed.  What we can do is pray for them and treat them with the full respect of those who are yet to become members of the true church.

Great thread. I must admit though that getting to a stage where you can rejoice for being 'beaten and persecuted' (like the apostles) is hard. I sympathize with Eileen. And agree with Dave in Tenn that we're all going through it. I just wish to highlight what Arcturus posted. There's more wisdom to it that I realized and hope someone out there sees it...
It is all His work because it is simply too bitter and painful to be chosen as a preference by the carnal mind.
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: Heidi on September 22, 2008, 06:26:06 AM
I like that the blind man was not influenced by the multitudes but shouted even louder when told to keep quiet. He could see what the multitudes could not see and he was the one who received the miracle!

Arcturus.....it is priceless, your words of wisdom!

Kweli, I agree with you about "It is all His work because it is simply too bitter and painful to be chosen as a preference by the carnal mind. "

I have often thought just what a bitter-painful-hard and lonely rode this is.  Certainly not what they teach in 90210 sunday school!  I am glad that I did not get any choice in this matter of God revealing Himself to me.

Every day I fall more and more in love with my Saviour and I can't get my head around how awesome it is....I feel so blessed and want to sometimes pinch myself just to make sure that I am not dreaming all this up....then I know that I am not and I feel....humbled.

Love
Heidi
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on September 22, 2008, 03:59:06 PM
Joy, Kweli and Heidi THANK YOU!
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: tinknocker on September 27, 2008, 04:09:21 AM
Yes, I can relate.

How your post relates to me:

Spiritual “perfect 20/20” does not come in one fell swoop.

Amrhrasach

I think this is true of all of us. But here is something that I hope will encourage you and all of us. It took Paul 3 years before he started teaching truth to the Jews. Remember that Paul was a pharisie, He had the best religious teacher of his time. Then we see from his writings it took 13 years before he started confirming the truths he learned to the Gentiles. 13 years to realize his calling! 13 years of maturing before God sent him to the Gentiles. Paul was still maturing even after 13 years because he stopped teaching physical baptism and started teaching one baptism - a spiritual baptism.

Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope at your calling; 5  one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6  one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all.

We need to realize that it is God who sets the time table - not us. So do not be discouraged in your progress it is not in your hands. God is bringing us along at speed He has determined for each one of us.

Proverbs 16:9   
A man's heart plans his way, but the LORD determines his steps. 


Your brother
Tinknocker
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: ciy on September 30, 2008, 04:19:07 PM
Journeyman82,

It does get better with the knowing.  Knowing the truth of God until you are not only saying you believe it your actions show it. 
Staying in the Word daily, seeking truth and wisdom with all of your heart, being patient, and coming to the point of really trusting God in action, then you will start to feel that peace that passes all understanding. 
It has to come from the inside out. 
Feel up with Christ in you.
It is a journey, but it is an inevitable journey.  Stay the course and believe Him and He will see you through.

CIY
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: OBrenda on October 01, 2008, 12:26:14 PM
I had to read this over a few times also.

I so hope, and am encouraged that my sin,...I will become blind & deaf to.

Wow Rodger,
Brenda
 :'(
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: Falconn003 on October 01, 2008, 12:53:54 PM
Falconn003 said: “As our eyes open to the sightful Truth of the Word of God and ears open to the voice of God. Could it be true-er still that our eyes become blind to the sight of sin and ears become deaf to the calls of sinning.”


Thank you Rodger.

I wait on such a transformation.   But don’t we all? 

Such is hope.

A.


Thanks always be to God, Our Father who has instilled this knowledge within us all.
I seek no glory, nor admiration, nor reward.

With the hope for us all , i await this transformation aswell, until Our sleep.

Peace
Rodger
Title: Re: Blind?
Post by: Falconn003 on October 01, 2008, 12:54:49 PM
I had to read this over a few times also.

I so hope, and am encouraged that my sin,...I will become blind & deaf to.

Wow Rodger,
Brenda
 :'(

Thanks be to God.

Peace
Rodger