O.K. Craig kicks a little butt. Right on.
Does this mean the annual argument over whether Christmas is a completely heathen holiday will not be allowed?
That was a wonderful holiday tradition on the Forum. ;D ;D
If today God gave us all the knowledge we search for, will it make us more Christ like? A better human? Parent? Friend?
What we should be asking is how to be a light in this existence, salt in this world.
We all sometimes preface our responses with "our understanding is, or our thoughts are." The thing is I've come to understand is that my understanding and thoughts have mostly been wrong, and they become wrong because I am trying to understand; trying to force the issue. I may be wrong now.
Our understanding is clouded by our beliefs, upbringing, grasp of the meaning of words and plain old time and translation. We see things through human eyes and understanding. Jews had scripture showing the Messiah would come and when He did they did not even know it. We can look at those same scriptures today and see the fulfillment, the Jews still can’t; why? Because of their traditions and upbringing. Most of us here, and Ray, were brought up on the traditions of the Christian religion; I wonder what we can’t see that is as clear as the nose on our face?
When we become Christ like and a vessel for Him we realize our understanding is vanity, chasing the wind. When Christ said if we had the faith of a mustard seed we could move mountains, do we really believe that? Can a little faith literally move a mountain? I believe just what Christ said, and I don't think we have a clue or very little understanding (much less than a mustard seed) about what faith really is; what it really means.
When Christ says He and the Father are one, and we will be one with Them both; we don’t have a clue about what that means or entails. We are too wrapped up in our own unique identities to consider that perhaps One really means One. One is all around, we frame being One, and in relation, God and His creation around the framework of time. Is time even in God’s vocabulary? Einstein even said time was an illusion. We just cannot grasp God’s knowledge or plan.
God gave Ray some of those answers that he shared with us, does that mean there are no more answers to be found? The Scriptures are full of answers and God will give them as He pleases and I will continue to search. Yes those things that were told to Daniel were sealed up, but if you keep going it says, "till the time of the end." That means that they will be revealed at some point. I don't see Ray's dying as an end to finding answers, the Spirit is still alive and well in His elect and will continue to open our understanding. The Scriptures for most of my life were a big struggle just to read, much less understand, but now I feel much comfort in them.
I crash-landed into the BT site a few years ago but I almost feel that I have unlearnt what little basics that I used to have a small understanding of. I just can't deal with all the misery of this life and feel myself breaking apart and falling to pieces. I used to have joy reading Ray's articles and his teaching but I can't even open a bible to read a verse, I just get so frustrated/disheartened.
Do what you want God I don't care any more and I don't understand any of it.
"Tell ya what, you pray for me and I'll pray for you and we'll get through this thing called life."
I crash-landed into the BT site a few years ago but I almost feel that I have unlearnt what little basics that I used to have a small understanding of. I just can't deal with all the misery of this life and feel myself breaking apart and falling to pieces. I used to have joy reading Ray's articles and his teaching but I can't even open a bible to read a verse, I just get so frustrated/disheartened.
Do what you want God I don't care any more and I don't understand any of it.
I agree Dave.Quote"Tell ya what, you pray for me and I'll pray for you and we'll get through this thing called life."
Sums it up beautifully. Thanks for the reminder Craig. I think there is more than a lifetime of learning on this site to get through, and more importantly to live out daily in our own lives. But I won't deny it's a struggle for me a lot of the time.
Dave
As someone has pointed out, Paul was taken to the third heaven and shown things that he could not repeat. As a result of such revelation knowledge,
One thing I have read on here many times is something like, 'we don't/can't really know this or that' or 'the Scripture is silent on this or that.'
As someone has pointed out, Paul was taken to the third heaven and shown things that he could not repeat. As a result of such revelation knowledge,
Correction - this was not Paul this was someone Paul knew..
2-Corinthians 12-1
"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven".
Hi Craig,
You makes some good points. One thing I have read on here many times is something like, 'we don't/can't really know this or that' or 'the Scripture is silent on this or that.' What I would like to say is that none of us can really say that about the rest of us here, not really. I mean each of us are differing point of study and understanding, so then there are some who have come to a greater understanding than others... if any of us have gained some knowledge beyond what is available here then we can't share it.
I'm not advocating that we open up the forum for others teaching. No. I'm just saying nobody can say what others here know or don't know. I hope that there are those here that are continuing to grow, even beyond what is here... why should we be limited to this, even as much as it is? The Spirit indwelling is not limited, praise God!
mercy, peace and love
Kat
As someone has pointed out, Paul was taken to the third heaven and shown things that he could not repeat. As a result of such revelation knowledge,
Correction - this was not Paul this was someone Paul knew..
2-Corinthians 12-1
"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven".
It was Paul. Paul was being modest in not directly mentioning himself.
Much was revealed to Paul. If you throw in the Book of Hebrews, Paul was used to write half the New Testament. Paul suffered a lot. Much was given to Paul, much was expected.
As someone has pointed out, Paul was taken to the third heaven and shown things that he could not repeat. As a result of such revelation knowledge,
Correction - this was not Paul this was someone Paul knew..
2-Corinthians 12-1
"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven".
It was Paul. Paul was being modest in not directly mentioning himself.
Much was revealed to Paul. If you throw in the Book of Hebrews, Paul was used to write half the New Testament. Paul suffered a lot. Much was given to Paul, much was expected.
2Co 12:5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. :-X
As someone has pointed out, Paul was taken to the third heaven and shown things that he could not repeat. As a result of such revelation knowledge,
Correction - this was not Paul this was someone Paul knew..
2-Corinthians 12-1
"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven".
It was Paul. Paul was being modest in not directly mentioning himself.
Much was revealed to Paul. If you throw in the Book of Hebrews, Paul was used to write half the New Testament. Paul suffered a lot. Much was given to Paul, much was expected.
2Co 12:5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. :-X
This a very, very minor matter. It was Paul who received the visions and revelations. He was countering false apostles who talked about their spiritual visions. Paul didn't like to boast about himself, so he used a literary device of speaking in the third person about the visions that Jesus gave him.
If you really want the truth about this minor point, then read down a little further to 2 Corinthians 12:7, where Paul states he was the one who received the revelations, and God gave Paul a "thorn in the flesh" so he wouldn't be exalted above measure.