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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: SandyFla on June 19, 2006, 05:54:23 PM
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I caught a bit of John Hagee's program last Saturday night. Don't usually watch him, but I was just curious to see what he had to say.
He talked about people who pray for their pets. He said someone called him one night and asked him to pray about their dog's post-nasal drip. He said that he told them NO!!! in no uncertain terms--and everyone had a good laugh.
Even when I was one of them (Christians), I always prayed for mine when they were sick. God has seen fit to deny me the blessings of motherhood, so my 2 cats are my "babies." I've never seen anything wrong with praying for them.
Don't Christians who oppose it ever read Matthew 10:29? - "Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father."
And also I Peter 5:7 - "Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you." What part of ALL YOUR CARE don't they understand? If just one of them can show me a Scripture that says something like, "You may pray about anything except your pets," I will stop. But as it stands right now, my cats will stay in my prayers.
I never understood why some Christians are so opposed to praying for their pets. Does anyone know why?
Sandy
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I never understood why some Christians are so opposed to praying for their pets. Does anyone know why?
They feel as if they don't diserve anything from god or christ,that humans are the ultimate being created in the image of god and that their the only one's god shows any kindess to.Atleast thats what somewhat of a majority thinks.
I know becuase I asked.
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There is nothing wrong with praying for your pets. God sees all that he created is good and he loves ALL that he created. I really feel bad for Mr. Hagee. He just has so much that will have to be undone. I wish he could experience it now, but he cannot see the truth. It just gets darker from there. :cry:
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Hi Sandy,
God is love, we love our pets, God created our pets, what more needs to be said?
Joe
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Isabell, I agree, this is ridiculous. Sandy no offense to you or anything, my parents have a pet dog, and I am rather fond of her. But I don't view pets as
human beings. So what I'm getting at is, pets, such as cats and dogs in some cultures are eaten like we eat chicken. So in that sense wouldn't it be the same as praying for a chicken? And if so, would you pray for a chicken?
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Maybe Sandy does pray for people first. From all the posts I have read of Sandy I would say she has a heart big enough to pray for those the Lord lays on her heart and for her cats that are very important to her. Ecc. does say that we are beasts too.
Isabell reading your posts you have always shown kindness and sympathy and an amazing amount of wisdom. There is room for all kinds of prayer.
I think most of my prayers are fairly selfish by nature. I am sort of confused since everything that happens is by God's will anyway so I don't pray the way I used to (before BT).
It is like praying for world peace, or someone in your family to get "saved", or for a new job, or moving to a new place. God's will be done.
Isabell please don't take offense. I still remember you in prayer to get back to Alaska. And I always look forward to your posts.
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At first I wasn't going to respond to this but the fact that pets are not human beings does not mean they have no value, these creatures can teach us about loyalty, humility, faithfulness & love if we are patiently observing.
Yes, some cultures eat dogs and cats, some eat their dead's (human beings) brains or other organs and others believe in canibalism, does that ultimately reduce the value of a human being in our eyes?
Yes, some pets do have it better in the Western world than some people have it in other parts, but that is more a damnation of their corrupt leaders who pocket and squander aid money or do not distribute donated foodstuffs, prefering to let it rot on the docks than coordinate distribution.
There will always be poor (in this age) and there will always be corruption, it is a fact that pets can be a tonic to a troubled spirit and provide companionship to the lonely or even eyes to the blind and protection for the weak, they are a gift from God and should be valued and treated with compassion.
Joe
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Joe,
I wasn't saying she shouldn't pray for her pets. I was just asking if that would be the same as praying for a chicken, but I guess pets have more value than
chickens. They can provide companionship to the lonely and so forth. My parents have a pet, and like I said I am rather fond of her, so maybe comparing a pet to a chicken wasn't a good idea. I didn't mean to offend anyone by that. My apologies.
Sorin
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When I was about thirteen years old and our family took a three week vacation to Alaska.... driving from Louisiana to Prince Rupert BC to catch a ferry to Juneau and then from there to Hanes... I PRAYED THE ENTIRE TRIP that the brand new puppy that I had just gotten before leaving wouldn't get out of the yard (as it was small enough to possibly squeeze through the wooden posts) and be gone (or worse) by the time we got home.
Nothing wrong with praying for your pets. And I wouldn't just assume that someone who would pray for their pet would do so at the EXCLUSION of praying for other things and people. In fact, I would assume the very opposite.
And if someone had a pet chicken (as some do) they might very well pray for that too. :wink:
God bless you, Sandy (and your cats!) :D
Chrissie
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God can show us things through the natural which invoke sympathy or anger which speaks much more of ourselves then anything, for as Paul says, "Is it the oxen that God cares about"? No, it is said for us (as is this picture said to David). But it does show God understands us.
2Sam 12:1-4 And the LORD sent Nathan unto David. And he came unto him, and said unto him, There were two men in one city; the one rich, and the other poor.
The rich [man] had exceeding many flocks and herds:
But the poor man had nothing, save one little ewe lamb, which he had bought and nourished up: and it grew up together with him, and with his children; it did eat of his own meat, and drank of his own cup, and lay in his bosom, and was unto him as a daughter.
And there came a traveller unto the rich man, and he spared to take of his own flock and of his own herd, to dress for the wayfaring man that was come unto him; but took the poor man's lamb, and dressed it for the man that was come to him.
David was enraged
This was "of David" and a wrong He committed. I believe the picture does bring up in us some natural affections and that of our own feelings through it (as God knows these). Theres nothing wrong with the caring for the needs of an animal.
Jesus used examples of the same to put a little heart back into the overly religious who passed over mercy.
Mathew 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
Theres a few. Truthfully I don't really pray for my pets, but I know when my dog was thrown into a seizure, and it scared the crap out of me :shock: and the first words out of my mouth (like it or not) was GOD HELP HER!
So I would be a hypocrit to tell you I never did personally. So I might look unspiritual, even ridiculous perhaps but the truth is I know "I do" in "such times". Heck, no one else to call on but Him stranded in the middle of such a time not knowing what to do.
Though I must admit they are not on "my daily prayer list" :lol: But who can blame you Sandy? Not me, nor do I judge you or condemn you for doing it. Sounds like you have a big heart and a merciful one.
Peace
Daniel
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I have a chicken named "Lucy" that follows me around like a dog and will sit in her chair(outside) in the mornings until I make her breakfast(grits). I think her egg might have rolled to far from the nest before she hatched, because I really dont think she knows she's a chicken.
I dont recall ever praying for her, but she is fun to have around and she is taken good care of as are all my animals, I guess as long as I dont make her or any of my animals "Idols of my heart", it's ok.
Love in Christ
Longhorn
P.S. Come to think of it, I guess I do have a pet chicken.
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Sandy,
I have a dog, but have never been what you might call "an animal lover" :lol: But now my sister is a whole different story. Like you she has never had children and her animals have been her "babies".
She currently has a miniature greyhound and, in fact, works for a company that allows her to take her dog to work with her. :shock:
She (the dog) was scared of my sister's Boss and so pee'd in his office on her first visit there. :lol: :lol:
She was so well-liked by one of my sister's co-workers that they now share 'custody'!! :shock: :lol: :lol:
My sister will take the dog to work on Friday and the other girl will take her home for the weekend (every other weekend) and bring her back on Monday. I think when my sister was in school she would even take her during the week on the nights when my sister had class so that she wouldn't be at home 'alone'. :D
I'd never heard of such a thing!!! :wink:
Just thought I would share that! :D
Chrissie
PS... her previous dog had his own leather jack and his own bedroom. :shock:
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God takes the animals into account.
Jonah 4:10 And the Lord said, Thou hadst pity on the gourd, for which thou has not suffered, neither didst thou rear it; which came up before night, and perished before another night: 11 and shall not I spare Nineve, the great city, in which dwell more than twelve myriads of human beings, who do not know their right hand or their left hand; and also much cattle?
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Our pets live better than PEOPLE in some parts of the world, and yet here we are debating whether we should pray for them (the pets).
Don't Christians who oppose it ever read Matthew 10:29? - "Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father."
Also take note of the two verses following:
Matt 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Matt 10:31 Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.
1 Tim 2:1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for ALL MEN,
1 Tim 2:2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.
Let's pray for other people first. Some people in this world are living in horrendous, deplorable conditions that we cannot even imagine. Children are starving to death in Africa while we eat plenty of fresh food every day and sit in our air-conditioned homes in front of a computer with high-speed internet access and talk about praying for our PETS. This is ridiculous.
Isabell,
I do pray for people too. Show me where I said I didn't ... or where I said I believe we should pray for pets first. :roll:
I also gave Scripture to back up that we are to bring ALL our cares to God. Please explain to me how pets are excluded in that verse.
Then you can say I'm being ridiculous.
I'm really wondering ... why did this thread get you so PO'd? Were you having a bad day?
Sandy
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Isabell, I agree, this is ridiculous. Sandy no offense to you or anything, my parents have a pet dog, and I am rather fond of her. But I don't view pets as
human beings. So what I'm getting at is, pets, such as cats and dogs in some cultures are eaten like we eat chicken. So in that sense wouldn't it be the same as praying for a chicken? And if so, would you pray for a chicken?
Yes, especially if it were part of my livelihood, as it is for most people who own chickens.
That would be part of "casting all my care on Him..."
TO THOSE WHO THINK THIS IS A RIDICULOUS THREAD: No one is forcing you to read it. Go on to something more to your liking.
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I have a chicken named "Lucy" that follows me around like a dog and will sit in her chair(outside) in the mornings until I make her breakfast(grits). I think her egg might have rolled to far from the nest before she hatched, because I really dont think she knows she's a chicken.
I dont recall ever praying for her, but she is fun to have around and she is taken good care of as are all my animals, I guess as long as I dont make her or any of my animals "Idols of my heart", it's ok.
Love in Christ
Longhorn
P.S. Come to think of it, I guess I do have a pet chicken.
SandyFla, Lucy say's Thank You. :)
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I have a chicken named "Lucy" that follows me around like a dog and will sit in her chair(outside) in the mornings until I make her breakfast(grits). I think her egg might have rolled to far from the nest before she hatched, because I really dont think she knows she's a chicken.
I dont recall ever praying for her, but she is fun to have around and she is taken good care of as are all my animals, I guess as long as I dont make her or any of my animals "Idols of my heart", it's ok.
Love in Christ
Longhorn
P.S. Come to think of it, I guess I do have a pet chicken.
SandyFla, Lucy say's Thank You. :)
You're welcome, Lucy! :D
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So what I'm getting at is, pets, such as cats and dogs in some cultures are eaten like we eat chicken. So in that sense wouldn't it be the same as praying for a chicken? And if so, would you pray for a chicken?
in some cultures they also eat people.
it's called cannibalism.
so what's your point???
rosie
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I've been wondering about this for a long time, because my kids (one is grown now and in college and the other is starting high school) have had various pets over the years. Many cats, a few hamsters, and my son's bevvy of fish. And out here where we live there is wildlife everywhere. Particularly when my daughter lost her favorite cats or her hamsters, she cried and prayed for them. When she was little she prayed for the animals, and, in fact, really has a way with them...handles horses like I've never seen. I don't see anything wrong with praying for pets or for asking God to lighten man's hearts so that abominations like factory farming can be done away with. There are so many more humane ways to treat "meat" animals. I believe when Christ returns animals will be treated exactly as God intended by man. Further, there are too many examples in the Bible where creatures themselves rejoice over Christ/the Lord. Further you have specifically Mark 16:15, "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every CREATURE." I figure the least we can do is not make a big deal if someone wants to pray for a pet.
snorky
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I've been away from the computer for a couple of weeks due to a crash, and having to take it in to the shop, etc. During the years, I've had to go without a 'puter, and it's really hard on me......lol.....I'm on it daily, it's a main source of communication, knowledge.....etc....and these last couple of months I've spent nearly everyday studying from Ray's site, or reading here at the forums, and when the 'puter crashed and I had to "go without".....I thought I'd go nuts...lol.......
So many times while reading the forums, I feel like I'm sitting at a table, with a cup of coffee, listening to all the banter from my brothers ad sisters in the Lord.....whether its deep spiritual talks, or lighthearted chats concerning our dear pets. I could hardly wait to get some of my programs downloaded and the 'puter running again, as I wanted to come in here and get caught up. While I was surprised at some of the recent posts, it was sooooo comforting to see your post about the pets. I have 3 cats, and all 3 were rescued, and are very precious to me. I've often seen where people have ask whether....."pets go to heaven"...."will we see our beloved pets again someday".....(and like yours....)..."praying for them"...........all I know is that some of those christians teach that animals don't have souls or spirits, and that 'nothing unclean' will inherit the kingdom of God. While I dont agree with either statement, I do wish we knew more, but as some others have already pointed out, there's plenty of scriptures to let us know how the Lord feels, and teaches about his creatures, and our pets. In the world we live in, in this day and age, its a blessing to know that we've been blessed with such precious little critters as our friends. I'm glad you brought this subject up. We're free to "gather around" and talk about other things outside of our biblical studyings, etc.....that's why different forums were created.....lol......so, I think I'll go make another cup of coffee and go do some more reading....... ;)
Scribbles
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Sandy:
In your post you mentioned John Hagee's statement about praying for pets. Considering the "fruit" I see coming from him... Well, I think I'll stop there.
I never understood why some Christians are so opposed to praying for their pets. Does anyone know why?
Considering that even our individual prayers are caused by God. I believe that the people you are referring to simply have not been given the eyes, ears and hearts to appreciate the gifts that our pets are. He uses them in just as many ways as he does people in our lives. At this point in my life, I see where he uses them in ways that people just wouldn't work.
I could write so much more on this, but I'm not sure that others can see and understand yet. What do you think?
As for me... I will always be thankful for the pets God has sent into my life. All that he has taught me thru them. And the comfort, love, and companionship he has given to me by placing them in my care.
Do I pray for my pets? Yes... I can't remember a time when I didn't. I can't think of a reason why I wouldn't.
More?
Ward
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Hiya All
I have a little cavalier spaniel, her name is Holly. I didn't pick her, she picked me. I took my niece to 'go see the puppies' Let me assure you I had no intentions of buying a dog.
[my thinking then was; Who needs the hassle of walking, feeding, caring for etc. I'd just got a newfound freedom after my kids had left home, why waste it on a dog?]
When we were there, this little pup in particular kept pulling at the hem of my jeans. I put her away from me a couple of times, but she even followed me to the kitchen of the house,[tsk] so, I picked her up.....................well, the rest is history as they say. As she sat there, in the palm of one hand, looking at me with those sincere 'dinner plate' eyes, any thought of personal freedom without a pet was doomed!
I have to say what we all know already, What an amazingly clever God we have. He would know even then, that when my loved one killed himself, [a year later] that I would absolutely need, a reason to get up every day, go out, [she needs to toilet] go to the shops, [and meet folk on the way] There was no person who could penetrate through the darkness and broken-ness that was in me at the time [much as I loved them too] Had I not had Holly, I would never have got up again, it was all too much and I'd thrown in the towel. God was having none of it, by giving me Holly, He made sure I would go on because ultimately he knew that no matter how bad I was, I would never let an animal suffer by neglect or starvation and would get up and tend to her needs before thinking about my own.
As it was, she knew something was very wrong. She stayed close, was not as mischeivous as normal, and cuddled in at every opportunity. Can you believe it? drawing a lot of strength from a DOG? I certainly wouldn't have thought so before. Mind you, I wouldn't have thought of a lot of things before that time.
I believe I learned a lot about God in that time, through her. So yes, I pray to God to keep her safe but if it is His will to take her from me, then to give me the strength to cope with it.
I agree that there are a lot of things wrong in the world that we should remember in our prayers, but I ask, would NOT praying for our much loved animals make it a better place? I for one , doubt it.
Angie
x
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All you all's posts are so great! I am so glad...even more...that this thread came up. I'll never forget how when I moved (for 6 months on a whim) to Houston from New York I was so lonely until I went to the ASPCA and got myself a cute mutt puppy, and then another and then another. When I moved back home to New York I took the first puppy (then about 8 months old) back with me...honestly I don't know what I would have done without those puppies.
Certainly God considers animals (and plants and rocks and anything else He created). Before the flood, there was no enmity between people and animals (it was only after the flood that God put enmity between people and animals--Genesis 9:2-3) In fact the animals Noah put onto the ark were in fact chosen by God (as all the other animals as well as people were corrupt before God). Not only that, but Genesis 9:5 proves that God gives (again) dominion over animals to where He holds us responsible not only for lives we take of people but animals as well. Futher, when God established His covenant with Noah, he also established it with the surviving animals! Thus, when species go extinct, God will hold us responsible. And then in Revelation God will "...destroy them that destroy the earth," holding us accountable for all the environment as well.
On the other hand in the original post it says John Hagee says not to pray for animals. He also preaches the rapture, preaches tithing, preaches eternal damnation, preaches becoming worldly...it is obvious to me that perhaps on this score as well we should consider doing the opposite! As related by the Bible posted above, Christ said to bring the good news to all CREATURES.
Out here in far west Texas, enjoying the cats and hamster and fish, and enjoying the deer and the javelinas and the racoons and the foxes and the burros and the quail and doves and all sorts of birds and even ths skunks and from a safe distance the mountain lions and bears...
snorky
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Wow! This is an old thread I started way back when ... thanks, Rosie, for reviving it. :)
God has taught me about His heart through my cats. One time my Bethany was scared and tried to run away. When I finally caught her, I told her, "Anytime you're scared, just run to me and you'll be safe. There is no safer place than in my arms." Right then, God whispered the same thing to my spirit.
They can also comfort like no one else. When my Twinkles was diagnosed with diabetes, I felt so bad for her that I sat down in my room, put my head on the bed and cried. Next thing I knew, there was Twinkles, sitting in front of my face. She put her paw on my arm and looked so intently into my eyes, it was if she was looking into my very soul. If there's such a thing as angels taking the form of cats, she is one.
I was listening to Ray's message from the conference, and he was talking about what a blessing his cats are.
So, to those who think this thread is ridiculous and a waste of time (you know who you are), maybe you should take another look at God's beautiful creatures and let Him show you His heart.
Sandy
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Hi Sandy,
I like your perspective on this.
The kind of love we recieve from God has no boundries. It doesn't stop at the kennel, or the forest. These are Gods creations, and we must respect them as such. Why not pray for them?
In defense of some who may think otherwise. This is speculation, but I feel I must say it.
Unlike birds or dogs or any other animal, we as people have expectations. Animals do not. Often, these expectations are not realized, and this can harbour bitterness and frustration in our hearts. These hearts cannot fathom the concept of praying for animals when they feel that even their smallest desires have gone unrealized. It falls back to the "it isn't fair" doctrine. For some, that type of concern IS rediculous, when they look at the big picture.
Pray for an animal when there is so much suffering going on in peoples lives and in MY life? Are you JOKING?
Its really not that hard to understand, if you think about it.
I see that attitude as a symptom. There is an underlying cause for it, and an associated effect. In other words...reaction. I don't think they hate animals, but it may appear that way. In that case, I say pray for them first, and then for our loving animals which God so graciously provided for our comfort.
That is my amateurish freudian analysis. I don't think anyone meant harm, let us not assume that anyway. But I agree, expressions of disagreement can come in all forms, why not temper them with understanding and patience.
You are right...best to change the channel if you don't like the show thats on, this forum has LOTS of channels.
I only prayed for my animals once. I had a sheltie who was dying, and I prayed that he would die soon so as to releive his suffering, within 30 seconds, he died in my arms. God showed mercy to us both in that moment.
Love,
Chuck
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Bobby,
I think you misunderstood me. I re read my post and I can see why.
I was defending someones position who might say that praying for animals was a waste of time, or not scriptural or whatever. I was saying that I can understand HOW they feel when they might say that.
I myself, love animals, and have had quite a few. I don't pray for animals, but see nothing wrong with it at all, that was really the point I was trying to convey.
The whole point of my post was a poorly written attempt to explain why someone may NOT pray for animals or agree with it.
I'm not an animal hater Bobby...you didn't think that did you brother?
As far as priorities. I know people who put their animals before people. I have seen them do it. If their cat, and me...fell off a bridge at the same time, I have no doubt that they would save the cat FIRST.
As far as expectations. I don't think animals have expectations, that left unrealized fester into bitterness, I would agree with purpose though.
I hope that clears it up, I don't like misunderstandings.
Love and PEACE,
Chuck
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Bobby,
I feel alot better now, I really get upset when I think I may have offended someone. You owe me no apology, but thanks for saying that. I will as always, continue to pray for you and your family during these trials you are having.
I was really tring to defend both positions, but did it very badly. I apologize to anyone who took my post wrong or was offended. The truth is, I do love animals. When I was six years old, I killed a butterfly, and was so upset I cried for two weeks. My folks though I had some type of mental problem, but I was just feeling so guilty about having destroyed something so beautiful, that I could never replace. My daughter won't even let me kill bugs, so shes a lot like I was. I love all of Gods creations. I should have expressed myself better in that post. I will try harder not to be so ambiguous when I write.
Here is the funny part. I'm a professional writing major. You would THINK I'd be able to write complete sentences that someone can understand. My future as an attorney who can't write would appear rather bleak...so be it.
Love and God bless,
Chuck
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"Lord a mercy" you know we need lawyers like you! (As an English major and a teacher I knew (sorta) what ya meant!)
PS. All my pets are the kids "brothers & sisters"- I think it says so in Ecclesiastes ;)
Gena
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God takes notice when even a sparrow falls to the ground,I have two cats and two dogs and they make pretty good freinds,my kitten got lost and I asked God to please take care of him and three weeks later he was back at home safe and sound and I still have him he's really my favorit pet his name is Thomas he talks to me first thing when i get up meow meow he says it almost lovingly,he came in tonight with a hurt paw I felt sorry for him,I think God loves all His creation and feels for all His creation when it hurts and so should we........Jerry
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i pray everyday that someone will take my 3 legged cat :D :-* ;) :o LOL
she's a pain heee heee
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You know, animals can be such a comfort to us. They don't talk, they love us no matter what and they even make us laugh! I 've got 2 cats and a little dog that belonged to my Daddy.
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You know, animals can be such a comfort to us. They don't talk, they love us no matter what and they even make us laugh! I 've got 2 cats and a little dog that belonged to my Daddy.
Jennie,
That is SOOO true! Whenever I'm crying in my bedroom, Twinkles, my kitty, knows just what to do. She puts her paw on my arm, gets her little nose as close to my face as possible, and looks deeply into my eyes. She stays there until I stop crying. I always say, if there's such a thing as angels taking the form of cats, she is one of them.
BTW, no human being (other than my parents) has ever provided more love and comfort to me than she has. So if I love her more than I do most people, there is good reason. People in general are difficult to love; she is not.
Sandy
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Hi SandyFla
I think you will really enjoy what for me, God has to say about this....Here it is!.....
"A consistently righteous man regards the life of his beast...." Proverbs 12:10
If the heavens can proclaim His Glory then we as humans can praise Him for the joy we recieve via His gifts of life we recieve from Him in the form of animals, plants and flowers and all the beauty of His great and marvelous handiwork. Why not?...we should acknowledge God for everthing! especially those things that bring us joy!...
Arcturas
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Amen, Arcturas!
I see God's beauty all around me, even in my cats. They've taught me so much about God's love, forgiveness and acceptance. Like Ray said, I see God when I look at them.
Sandy