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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Shawn Fainn on February 05, 2013, 10:14:59 AM
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Anyone have any links to where Ray possibly expounded on the difference between killing and murder? The link below was the only one I could find.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1908.msg15785.html#msg15785 (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1908.msg15785.html#msg15785) :
Dear Ray,
Why did God command Israel to murder in the OT despite the commandment "Thou Shall Not Kill"? Didnt Jesus say, "love your enemies"?
Thanks for everything, God has truly blessed me through your site. Hope to hear from you soon God bless.
Joed
Dear Joed:
You have it completely backwards: God commanded Israel to "kill" their enemies, however, the seventh commandment is "thou shalt not MURDER." The same holds for the New Tesament commandment (Matt. 5:21). The translators didn't quite get that one right. God used his physical nation of Israel to Judge the heathens in the land of Canaan, where as in the future God will use his Spiritual Nation of Israel to Judge the whole world system of Babylon the Great.
God be with you,
Ray
Thanks!
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That's clear enough for me. I love it.
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Hi,
I'm not sure if I "love this". I just can't see why I would have any reason to KILL (not murder) people. I don't feel the urge to fight in a war for example. I don't think we should do that.
God bless you,
Eirik
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Eggi, the New Covenant is not in accord with the Old.
Still, everyone does what is right in their own eyes and the Lord judges the heart.
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Hi,
I'm not sure if I "love this". I just can't see why I would have any reason to KILL (not murder) people. I don't feel the urge to fight in a war for example. I don't think we should do that.
God bless you,
Eirik
Give it time. :) We're talking about it in the spiritual sense, not the literal sense.
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And I only meant that I love the way that Ray brought out the truth of that matter. What kind of a sick human being loves killing other human beings? Sometimes it's necessary and totally justified, whether we like it or not.
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Gina, I know what you meant. What I meant is that I'm not convinced that we Christians should kill, for any reason.
God alone can give and take life, that's how I feel.
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What's that verse about, He will slay them with the sword of His mouth? Well, that's all this is talking about. I mean, seriously, would you not spiritually slay the Hagees of this world if it stopped the filth they spew from the pulpits, knowing it saves other people's spiritual lives -- knowing that the Hagees would be healed and saved eventually and LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS? I would. In a heartbeat. But I understand where you're coming from, Eggi. You're such a fine human being, and I just absolutely adore you.
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Love you Gina, you're so right! Spiritually slaying in order to give life, now that's something else!
God bless you,
Eirik
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Dear friends eggi and "shorty",
Interesting thoughts.
We only have the ability to slay a person spiritually after God has begun the process and after the person has 'volunteered' to submit to our efforts. We are not in the business of convicting people of the rightness of what we have first been given by God.
They are the same as we once were. Lost and ignorant of the means toward salvation.
As far as I presently understand we do not have authority from God to slay anyone, spiritually or physically. That authority has to be delegated to an individual by one with the authority to delegate, Lord Jesus. I don't see that happening in this physical life.
Please refer me to an article by Ray or from scripture that authorizes us.
Thanks for the interesting topic and for any counsel you can provide.
Kindly offered, Indiana Bob ;D
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Maybe not physically, but then again, maybe we do --
1 Cor. 5:5
To deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus
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But wait, there's more:
Luke 19:
The Parable of the Ten Minas
11While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once.
12He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return.
13So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.a ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’
14“But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We don’t want this man to be our king.’
15“He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.
16“The first one came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned ten more.’
17“‘Well done, my good servant!’ his master replied. ‘Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.’
18“The second came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned five more.’
19“His master answered, ‘You take charge of five cities.’
20“Then another servant came and said, ‘Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth.
21I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.’
22“His master replied, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow?
23Why then didn’t you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?’
24“Then he said to those standing by, ‘Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’
25“‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’
26“He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away.
27But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”
(note: Because this is a parable, I don't believe for a second this is a literal killing at all. )
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Thou shall not murder. Not thou shall not kill. Am I'm splitting hairs? maby. If one finds him or herself that has to kill in order to save one self or loved ones form people who want to murder them i would say most would not blink an eye or think twice about killing some one if you and yours were in interment danger of being murder. Of course I only can speak of myself for sure. but I do suspect that most would kill in order to save their loved ones. Sorry I can not speak on the spiritual side of this matter I am not qualified.
Darren
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Here is another email quote from Ray that may help.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6893.msg55008.html#msg55008
COMMENT: You do not understand the 6th commandment. It does not say "Thou shalt not KILL" in the Hebrew manuscripts. It says, "Thou shalt not MURDER." Big big difference. Soldiers kill in war, they do not murder. Murder is the illegal killing of someone. When God told the Israelite to kill all of the pagans which were committing every conceivable kind of crime including burning the little children in fire, He was not telling them to commit sin. It was not a sin to kill these people at God's command, because they were not "murdering" them which would have been breaking God's commandment and which then would have been a contradiction.
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I served in the military for 13 years and I always prayed that I would never have to take a life and I didn't. I took an oath to defend the constitution and with that the second amendment and as long as that doesn't compromise my walk with God I will continue to do so. I have a concealed pistol license and because of my job I am constantly armed. Although I am fully capable of taking a life it continues to be my prayer that I am never in the position where I have to do so.
However, I find myself changing on these issues in the last few years as God leads me. Under the old testament it was lawful to take a life for various reasons.
I.E.
Exo 22:2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.
And yet we are no longer living under the old covenant but the new covenant. We know that the law is a hard taskmaster and that if we are truly in Christ we are no longer under the law. There are a few things in the New Testament that give us some hints as to what may happen to us as we progress in Christ.
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Luk 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
(If I kill my enemies then how am I loving them?)
Jas 5:6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.
That last one is a big ouch. And then we have this question from Jesus....
Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
I 'fear' that in the future I am going to be lead to totally get rid of all of my weapons in order to walk these scriptures out. I am capable and trained to take a life but where I am at right now the only way I could is if someone was actively attempting to take my life or the life of an innocent other and if there was any way to absolutely avoid taking that life ( running away, ect) I would do so even if the law would allow me to take that life. This is all still a work in progress for me.
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Well sometimes I think that question 'what would Jesus do' is the best answer in many situations.
We need to remember that there is no situation that we will find our self in, that God is not right there with us.
Acts 17:27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
So no matter what dangerous a situation we may find our self in, do we believe that we have to take matters into our own hands because God can not or will not help us? There has to be trust in this 'all powerful' God that we claim to serve and obey.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Well said Arion and Kat,
This is a difficult subject and benefits from much personal meditation on the part of each of us.
Learning to trust God fully is not possible in this life, but is a goal toward which we struggle.
I have been a police officer and do hold a carry permit, however what I have noticed as I get older is that my .45 ACP stays locked up away from children's curious eyes & fingers and from my own weakened fingers since I have arthritis and can't always operate the slide to load a cartridge.
I have seriously contemplated what I would be able to do if awakened in the night by an intruder and my most recent feeling is that I would pray quietly, "Father I believe, help thou my unbelief"
Ole Indiana Bob
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I don't own any guns, never have. I just don't like them for myself. I can see an intruder coming through my door and me freaking out and fumbling to get my gun and then shooting myself in the foot (or God forbid, shooting but missing my target, and inadvertently killing an innocent bystander. Don't really want that hanging over my head. Or... I'd get the intruder who would turn around and sue me (and win!) for being injured in my home. Injured? Yes. Because I just don't think I could shoot to kill. But I'd have no problem making his voice seven or eight octaves higher. lol ) I see why police have to have guns and weapons (they don't carry the sword for nothing). But we're getting totally sidetracked here. Ray was juxtaposing the physical with the spiritual. First the physical, then the spiritual.
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Tis a conundrum as with many things one can argue both sides of the question. What I do know is that God is doing a work in us all and we are not where we were at spiritually 5 years ago and 5 years from now if we are still around we will not be where we are at spiritually now if God is working in us. Five years ago I would of answered some of these things much differently.
We do have responsibilities to provide for our own and protecting our spouse (if your male) and your children are parental responsibilities. Even for the women I doubt if there is a female on this forum that if a man broke into your house to rape your daughter or molest your son that you would do everything in your power to stop him up to and including deadly force if it was called for. I do know that where I am at right now is that even if it was lawful for me to take a life and even if it was permissible under the scriptures I sure wouldn't want that on my conscience.
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I just happened to be reading Exodus 20/21 about laws concerning violence. And there is somewhere in OT about someone killing in self defence and a place of refuge for a determined time. Can see how the basis for our judicial system started.
This aside, my opinion is that someone of sound mind who premeditates taking a life (murder); someone whom God gave over to a depraved mind (murder); someone mentally delusional, although may be premeditated (killing); to have a military is an act of defence against aggressors (killing); most people of sound mind do not want to kill but must do so in an act of self defence; God has molded us the way we are and in the end he will deal with us, as only he knows the true intent of our minds and hearts. Just keep praying that he will lead us to the right action when encountering a confrontational situation.
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Arion said: Even for the women I doubt if there is a female on this forum that if a man broke into your house to rape your daughter or molest your son that you would do everything in your power to stop him up to and including deadly force if it was called for.
Well see, now that borders on free will.
Proverbs 19:21 Many are the plans in a man's heart, but it is the LORD's purpose that prevails.
I realize the need to be prepared and to be careful, and that's good. But I have gone overboard in an attempt to keep anything bad from ever happening, only to wind up super depressed, anxious and worried over something that may or may not happen. Anticipating and planning to counteract something bad, always seems to contradict this verse:
Phil. 4:8 whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.
Not judging. I realize there are places in this world where people live their entire lives looking over their shoulder for no other reason than they have a different skin color. I'm not talking about that.
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Maybe God wants us to see that life in this carnal world is pointless
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I can understand where Ray is coming from when he said there is a big, big difference between "Thou shalt not kill." and "Thou shalt not murder. "
The death sentence is no doubt the best verdict in some cases in judgements.
There is the case of Ananias and Sappria in Acts 5. Pretty stiff sentence for lying.
Ecclesiastes 3:3
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
Then there is Genesis 9:6
Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
I personally don't like killing, don't even hunt. But I don't have a problem with anyone that does, and goes about it properally.
Joel
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Rito1980 & friends,
But life in this carnal world IS NOT pointless. There is a great lesson for all, even for those that are not yet called. They are learning every day that they are weak and incomplete without God in their lives and when they finally are called all of this history and knowledge will come back to their memory and quickly convict them of their need for God. Then we will be there to guide them into all knowledge and begin to build them up into a work of God as has been done for each of us.
Indiana Bob
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Maybe what Rita1980 meant to say was temporary. If it was pointless I would have ended my life years ago.
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But there are babies who only get to live for a few minutes. What would be the purpose of having only lived for a brief time?
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I believe in The Lord, I consider myself a christian, I have faith in The All knowing powerfull Lord. I asked many times what would Jesus do. This being said I would not hesitate to do whatever it takes to protect my loved one from being physically harmed. The Lord made the husband the protector of his family and I shall do so at all coast even if it means my death. No I would not want to kill anyone but I would if that's what it takes to save my loved one from some nut who's intentions are to take away the ones i love.
Darren
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But there are babies who only get to live for a few minutes. What would be the purpose of having only lived for a brief time?
Rito,
The death of anyone, even babies, is but a brief interruption of life until the resurrection to come.
An infant who dies because of accident or disease shall be resurrected to 'continue' life once again.
That resurrection will be after Lord Jesus returns to rule in the world. So for many who may live or be born into terrible conditions of war and poverty, dying early may be a blessing, because they will be resurrected into a better world of love within God's future government.
Indiana Bob
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To have a full knowledge of good and EVIL. That's why babies are born to die so young.
Those babies will later go on to live and be judged at some later time.
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Well said John and helpful,
Perhaps it is a test of sorts to check ourselves to see if we have true faith.
Anyone can break into my house with a gloved fist or a swift kick, and I sleep like a baby.
So they could be in our bedroom in about ten seconds.
But they won't be able to do that until God is finished working on me.
And if they are able, then I go to my rest with a clear conscience and God will deal with them as He wishes.
Romans 12:19
(KJV)
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
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this has been on my mind too and would like to share my thoughts. hope people reply. Jn 3:17-19
ALTHOUGH i SUGGEST THE WHOLE CHAPTER BE READ because it does relate so well about being born again
Joh 3:17 For God has not sent his Son into the world that he may judge the world, but that the world may be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 He that believes on him is not judged: but he that believes not has been already judged, because he has not believed on the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment, that light is come into the world, and men have loved darkness rather than light; for their works were evil.
I was looking at this verse " that light is come into the World" our world is dark and light separates the dark. if you have a problem like an infection in your body and it comes out on your skin "boil" pimple the best way to treat it is to allow it to surfaces and leave the body. your body is throwing off the problem. now I am not saying we sin and allow it. what I am saying is if we try to work salvation ourselves it is the work of the flesh. Chris through His Holy Spirit and it is His desired to mature us is at work. The problems are there the opportunities are there to grow and we are. Ray talked about this in his paper on are we chosen and how we must fall first.
this Light that came into the World it is such a contrast to darkness. pure and holy Gods Son on earth. it makes me think it is causing the sin to surface up and be done way with. Jesus has brought about the Will of the Father in this earth and sin is being destroyed by the light. that my thinking simple but i believe that Light has set in motion the wrong to surface more or be seen and the hope and glory is that He Jesus Christ disolve conquer that death and sin that dwells ino ur being.
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one more thing here there are sooo many opinons love it but also brotherly love. I have been in a lot of prayer late and not been on the forum nice to be back :D
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Interesting responses. As evil only seems to increase in the world, it's difficult to resist acting at times and be patient.. I'm sure we still have a ways to go, but I'm looking forward to when all the wickedness is done away with.
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There will be no peace on the earth. Yes, evil only seems to increase in the world, but we have to endure it to the last.
"....Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" Luk 18:8"
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As evil only seems to increase in the world
The key word her is "seems". As bad as the world is, it is good compared to past history. I have spent my free time in the last couple years studying some history, it has always interested me. History proves that evil has been much worse in the past. The difference now is the advent of news, internet and the population explosion. A flea farts on the other side of the world and we hear about it. In the past something happening in another state or county would harldy make the local news. Now all news is local.
Actually we live in a relatively good time. If evil really hit everyone hard, most would fold like a stack of newspapers.
Craig
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As evil only seems to increase in the world
Actually we live in a relatively good time. If evil really hit everyone hard, most would fold like a stack of newspapers.
Craig
Very true. Peace, peace and there is no peace -BUT- be thankful for the relative "good times" we have now.
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As evil only seems to increase in the world
History proves that evil has been much worse in the past. The difference now is the advent of news, internet and the population explosion. A flea farts on the other side of the world and we hear about it. In the past something happening in another state or county would harldy make the local news. Now all news is local.
Actually we live in a relatively good time. If evil really hit everyone hard, most would fold like a stack of newspapers.
Craig
I guess it depends on how you define 'evil'. Ive also been intrigued by history more and more over the passed couple years, and so I think (Apologies if Im off base) you might be reffering to evil in the form of mass killings and brutalities such as Hitler killing 6 million Jews, or the brutalities of Gengis Kahn, or the attempted genocide of the Native American and enslaving of Africans etc. etc.
But what about deciet? Is killing someone more evil than lying to someone? Perhaps it seems that these days arent as evil as former days because we view certain evils as worse than others?
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As evil only seems to increase in the world
History proves that evil has been much worse in the past. The difference now is the advent of news, internet and the population explosion. A flea farts on the other side of the world and we hear about it. In the past something happening in another state or county would hardly make the local news. Now all news is local.
Actually we live in a relatively good time. If evil really hit everyone hard, most would fold like a stack of newspapers.
Craig
I guess it depends on how you define 'evil'. Ive also been intrigued by history more and more over the passed couple years, and so I think (Apologies if Im off base) you might be referring to evil in the form of mass killings and brutalities such as Hitler killing 6 million Jews, or the brutalities of Gengis Kahn, or the attempted genocide of the Native American and enslaving of Africans etc. etc.
But what about deciet? Is killing someone more evil than lying to someone? Perhaps it seems that these days arent as evil as former days because we view certain evils as worse than others?
No, I don't think so. What makes you think deceit is worse now then in the past? Et tu, Brute? Then fall Caesar. The deceit of people, leaders and government is probably not worse. Want to see some evil deceitful people? Check out the early Popes. And it is just not the mass killing like Hitler, it is also the treatment of our fellow men, the way women are treated, children abused and everything else; through history it has been just as bad and worse in most things. We think the world and the US is evil now, because of sexuality, drunkenness government deceit and abuse? Just study the roaring 20's. We cannot claim the title of being worse now, maybe not better but certainly not worse. As I said before because of technology and news, people who were shielded from debauchery in the past see it in the open now. There is nothing new under the sun.
Craig
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I totally agree Craig, I too was reading up on historical accounts of centuries pass... it is incredulous the atrocities that have taken place in every class of people. The fact is humanity is carnal and has a proclivity towards wickedness - selfishness - corruption, we are too spiritual weak to resist sin now and all throughout history. Evil is evil and the world has always had plenty of it.
Now one thing I see is that as the population keeps growing, that naturally increases the number of carnal people that live on this earth... so just by sheer volume of people on earth wickedness will increase.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Kat I agree. Just 300 years ago there were less than 1 billion people alive. Today it's close to 7 billion.
Another way to put it is that 300 years ago there were less than 1 billion 'sinners' alive and today there are somewhere around 7 billion 'sinners' alive.
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Craig to answer your question, I don't know if deception is any worse now than at other times in history.. But one question I ask myself is, if I were being deceived right now, would I know it? No of course not.. I'd be deceived!
Only time will tell how and in what ways the evil of these days compare to the evils throughout history. I don't think that we posses the vantage point to be able to accurately judge our place in history.
We learn about Slavery all these years later and we all agree that it was an obvious evil. Although in that generation a lot of people, many of them christians, did not agree that slavery was evil. We can't honestly say that we would have recognized that evil had we been living in that generation. It would be like saying we wouldn't have eaten the fruit in the garden had we been there instead of Adam and Eve.
I wonder what people will say about OUR generation a hundred years from now... Maybe they'll say we were the generation that killed 50 million unborn babies, or we had a president who knowingly lied and deceived us into going to war and nobody fired him and nobody went to jail.. Who knows? I certainly don't.
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History proves that evil has been much worse in the past. The difference now is the advent of news, internet and the population explosion.
The population grow is one thing, but don't forget, we don't just get the news from internet, it's also getting easier to do evil on internet. People can perform an evil act in 60 seconds without leaving their comfort home. From phishing to virus to bully to malevolence to porn to gossip to cheating in a marriage to false teaching to all kinds of criminal activities that you can imagine -- all happen on internet.
If you count all the evil deeds done on the internet, it could be a bigger number than the number of all the evil deeds done in history before the internet age.
Internet is a place for us to learn good and evil.
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Whatever happens it will always be under the will of God Almighty. Any circumstance that you find yourself in, having to make a snap choice in, God already knows what you will do and what the instigator would do. If we all went around respecting one another and listening and serving one another then there would be no need for this topic. The sad truth for now is that we don't behave towards one another as Christ asked us all to, by loving our neighbors.
If a child of God [we're all God's children] has become disturbed and angry and they attack another human being through frustration, etc, then surely it would make sense to learn self-protection in order to try to quell the situation and if physical harm has to occur then hopefully by meeting the future situation with well thought out preparation one will be able to do the bare minimum to negate the situation, keeping both parties alive.
It shouldn't ever be our intent to murder or to kill, but God knows our hearts and He will reconcile all things to him after this thing called life has happened to each one of us that He has deemed to exist. Many reading this may be murdering animals for food when by today's standards there is actually no need to, an animal cannot beg for mercy. Think about it... common sense should prevail when we don't have a scripture.
Today murder is still wrong but killing may be allowed under mitigating circumstances. No one in their right mind wants to watch a dog writhing on the floor in agony with a serious illness that it will not recover from when we can get a vet to, "put it to sleep" and put it out of it's misery.
Today many humans think that this should also be done for people who are terminally ill if they so wish as they have potentially years of misery, pain, and a loss of self-dignity to look forwards to. It is only Christendoms thinking that stops this. It is appointed once for a person to die and if we kill them for a very good reason that of pity, mercy, then God still knows that that is the appointed time. God will not be fooled, it's all of Him. All we can ever do is our best towards what we know about Him. He is the judge, He will be all-in-all, and we will all be saved. Amen.
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It shouldn't ever be our intent to murder or to kill, but God knows our hearts and He will reconcile all things to him after this thing called life has happened to each one of us that He has deemed to exist. Many reading this may be murdering animals for food when by today's standards there is actually no need to, an animal cannot beg for mercy. Think about it... common sense should prevail when we don't have a scripture.
I do agree with your first comment there, we should never feel we are in a situation where we have to kill another person... God is always there, omnipresent and can intervene according to His purpose. As believers we should not fear death, as those that do not understand God's plan do, we know that this age is just the beginning. Certainly we would want to preserve our life or the life of another if we could, life and living is precious. But maybe it's not so much how long we live, but more about what character we do develop while alive?
But using the word 'murder' to describe the killing of animals is just not the right application for that word, murder : the crime of unlawfully killing a person esp. with malice aforethought. Animals have been given to mankind for food and it is not wrong to harvest/slaughter them for that purpose.
Gen 1:30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food"; and it was so.
Animals can certainly be abused and that is a disgraceful thing, but they cannot be murdered.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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"I do agree with your first comment there, we should never feel we are in a situation where we have to kill another person... God is always there, omnipresent and can intervene according to His purpose. As believers we should not fear death, as those that do not understand God's plan do, we know that this age is just the beginning. Certainly we would want to preserve our life or the life of another if we could, life and living is precious. But maybe it's not so much how long we live, but more about what character we do develop while alive?
But using the word 'murder' to describe the killing of animals is just not the right application for that word, murder : the crime of unlawfully killing a person esp. with malice aforethought. Animals have been given to mankind for food and it is not wrong to harvest/slaughter them for that purpose.
Gen 1:30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food"; and it was so.
Animals can certainly be abused and that is a disgraceful thing, but they cannot be murdered.
mercy, peace and love."
With all due respect Kat, I didn't say that murdering animals if necessary is wrong, of course in certain situations and hostile habitats murdering animals with forethought is necessary and given to us by God but, and it's a big but.... most of us in the affluent West today do not need to farm and harvest on mass livestock solely for the purpose of binge eating. Livestock cause pollution and damaged rain forests, it is also horrifically cruel and brings out the worst in those humans that work in the trade at abattoirs. It always makes me laugh, (not) when people are outraged by Asians eating dogs by boiling them alive in huge pots, dropping a door over the top to stop them jumping out as they yelp and writhe in agony... while obliviously chewing through their dead fried chicken drumstick that no doubt lived a life in total darkness with no room to move, breathing the sulphur from it's own feces, but because a chicken isn't a pet called 'Rover' that's alright then. There's killing and there's murder, and then there's the meat trade!!!
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Seven billion carnally minded beasts. That's scary Kat. Maybe a clash of cultures to come.
I pray I would never take a life. My faith and trust in the Lord would certainly be tested if I had to protect my grandchildren from evil, it's ingrained in most of humanity to help each other when tragedy strikes but survival of the fittest is ingrained in us also. Peace🙏🏼 Pamela