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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: hillsbororiver on November 19, 2008, 07:17:51 PM
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From LOF Part 10;
THE FOLLOWING FOR MATURE READERS ONLY
I stated that Satan has his part in the spiritual salvation of mankind. When God created our first parents in the Garden of Eden—Satan was there. When God called out the nation of Israel—Satan was there. When God wanted to test Job, one of the most perfect and righteous men who have ever lived—Satan was there. Whenever God chose to show mercy rather than condemnation on His people—Satan was there. When our Lord was being tested in the wilderness in preparation for His ministry—Satan was there. When Jesus chose Peter to possess the keys to the kingdom of God—Satan was there. Wherever God’s true gospel is preached in the world—Satan was there. Whenever God first shines the light of His Truth in man’s heaven—Satan was there. When God wanted to Sacrifice His Son for the sins of the world—Satan was there. When Ananias and Sapphira lied to God’s Holy Spirit—Satan was there. When Paul needed assistance in correcting a fornicator and a blasphemer—Satan was there. Whenever saints are tempted to disobey—Satan was there. When Paul himself was in danger of being lifted up because of transcendent spiritual revelations—Satan was there. Whenever, even the saints are fooled by great power and lying signs and wonders—Satan is there. When we look for the source of all the lying deception of the whole world—again, Satan is there!
http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html
Sometimes peace and understanding must be strived for,
Joe
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Sometimes peace and understanding must be strived for,
Also labored/fought for and protected.
Craig
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Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Marlene
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From LOF Part 10;
THE FOLLOWING FOR MATURE READERS ONLY
I stated that Satan has his part in the spiritual salvation of mankind. When God created our first parents in the Garden of Eden—Satan was there. When God called out the nation of Israel—Satan was there. When God wanted to test Job, one of the most perfect and righteous men who have ever lived—Satan was there. Whenever God chose to show mercy rather than condemnation on His people—Satan was there. When our Lord was being tested in the wilderness in preparation for His ministry—Satan was there. When Jesus chose Peter to possess the keys to the kingdom of God—Satan was there. Wherever God’s true gospel is preached in the world—Satan was there. Whenever God first shines the light of His Truth in man’s heaven—Satan was there. When God wanted to Sacrifice His Son for the sins of the world—Satan was there. When Ananias and Sapphira lied to God’s Holy Spirit—Satan was there. When Paul needed assistance in correcting a fornicator and a blasphemer—Satan was there. Whenever saints are tempted to disobey—Satan was there. When Paul himself was in danger of being lifted up because of transcendent spiritual revelations—Satan was there. Whenever, even the saints are fooled by great power and lying signs and wonders—Satan is there. When we look for the source of all the lying deception of the whole world—again, Satan is there!
http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html
Sometimes peace and understanding must be strived for,
Joe
Of course satan [Hebrew: adversary] is there, especially when we come to learn that "satan" is merely a metaphor for the sinful nature within man.
Selah
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Hi enigmoxical,
Of course satan [Hebrew: adversary] is there, especially when we come to learn that "satan" is merely a metaphor for the sinful nature within man.
Here are a few emails concerning the idea that Satan is our sinful nature.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6300.0.html -----
Dear Ray, On the subject of satan and who or what he is or isn't, I have this suspicion that WE, OUR, carnal mind or our twisted intellect is [MAYBE] this thing called satan. Are we not our own worst enemy? Isn't our evil thoughts our own? I have pondered this for a long time, please take a look at it and tell me what you think. Thank you! God bless you! Mark
Dear Mark: Was it "the carnal mind" that presented itself to God in the opening chapters of Job? Did Jesus tells HIS OWN "CARNAL MIND" to "get behind Me, SATAN?" (Luke 4:8)? Did Jesus have a "carnal mind?" A "satan" within Him? Is God going to chain the "carnal mind" in the abyss for a thousand years (Rev. 20:1-2)? Is He then going to release the "carnal mind" for a little season?
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2121.0.html ---------
"Surely he cannot be the wicked part of our carnal nature."
Surely you cannot believe that "Jesus was led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of THE WICKED PART OF HIS CARNAL NATURE," do you? (Matt. 4:1). Do you really believe that Jesus had a CARNAL WICKED NATURE? Sorry, but I don't have the time to do a major paper on Satan at this time. See my "Lake of Fire" series on the "Origin of Sin and Satan."
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,75.0.html -------
Was Jesus really tempted by His "fallen carnal mind--His evil nature?" Was Jesus referring to"His own carnal nature" that Jesus said, "Get thee behind Me, Satan?" Was Jesus' "carnal evil nature," "enmity against God?" Did Jesus really HATE HIS OWN FATHER? It's an "idol of your heart," Timothy, give up.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1707.0.html ------
I am familiar with the "Santan is your carnal mind" theory. Just two Scriptures might help you understand this cannot be Scripturally true:
[1] Rev. 20:1-3--Is God really going to "bind the carnal mind of all mankind" for a thousand years, and then give it back to them once again? If no one has a carnal mind (sinful nature) how could they become sinful once again, and only for a short season?
[2] I Cor. 5:5--How can our flesh (sinful nature) destroy our flesh (sinful nature)? This is in contradiction to our Lord's statments concerning "Satan casting out Satan" (Matt. 12:26).
ALL THE SCRIPTURES must agree.
God be with you,
Ray
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Hey Joe,
I like this point and paragraph from this Installment.
Hardly a person alive would admit to being deceived by Satan the devil, and yet God tells us that Satan, "deceives the WHOLE WORLD." The "whole world." Isn’t that just about everybody? Well, who pray tell, are NOT deceived? Answer: "The very elect" (Matt. 24:24). And how many is that? Answer: "Few" (Matt. 20:16). Who are the "Few?" Answer: "He that overcomes" (Rev. 3:21). Overcomes what? Answer: The same thing that Jesus overcame—"the world" (John 16:33). "The World?" Could you be a little more specific? Answer
"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is NOT in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is NOT of the Father, but is of the world" (I John 2:15:16).
And none of us have overcome yet, until we endure until the end.
Kind Regards, Samson
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And none of us have overcome yet, until we endure until the end.
A big AMEN to that Samson......
Peace,
Joe
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Hello, Since only a few are chosen. Good thing there is no Hell!!!!!!!!!
In His LOVE,
Marlene
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Just spoke with Samson on the phone at noon Thursday 11/20/08.
Thanks Joe and Brad for your comments below. Well said and helpful.
Indiana Bob
Hey Joe,
I like this point and paragraph from this Installment.
Hardly a person alive would admit to being deceived by Satan the devil, and yet God tells us that Satan, "deceives the WHOLE WORLD." The "whole world." Isn’t that just about everybody? Well, who pray tell, are NOT deceived? Answer: "The very elect" (Matt. 24:24). And how many is that? Answer: "Few" (Matt. 20:16). Who are the "Few?" Answer: "He that overcomes" (Rev. 3:21). Overcomes what? Answer: The same thing that Jesus overcame—"the world" (John 16:33). "The World?" Could you be a little more specific? Answer
"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is NOT in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is NOT of the Father, but is of the world" (I John 2:15:16).
And none of us have overcome yet, until we endure until the end.
Kind Regards, Samson
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Admittedly there are some scriptural verses when taken by themselves might lead one to consider that perhaps Satan and devils are only our carnal self destructive instincts, but if we take all the references to devils written of it becomes clear that these are real entities with a real taste for tormenting and attempting to destroy mankind.
The emails that Kat provided from Ray really hit some major points, this is one that stands out for me;
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6300.0.html -----
Dear Ray, On the subject of satan and who or what he is or isn't, I have this suspicion that WE, OUR, carnal mind or our twisted intellect is [MAYBE] this thing called satan. Are we not our own worst enemy? Isn't our evil thoughts our own? I have pondered this for a long time, please take a look at it and tell me what you think. Thank you! God bless you! Mark
Dear Mark: Was it "the carnal mind" that presented itself to God in the opening chapters of Job? Did Jesus tells HIS OWN "CARNAL MIND" to "get behind Me, SATAN?" (Luke 4:8)? Did Jesus have a "carnal mind?" A "satan" within Him? Is God going to chain the "carnal mind" in the abyss for a thousand years (Rev. 20:1-2)? Is He then going to release the "carnal mind" for a little season?
You know even if one were to believe that Christ's flesh gave Him a "carnal mind" (I certainly don't) and that is the devil He was being tempted and challenged by we have our Lord's own Words to dispel that thought.
John 8
48Then answered the Jews and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan and hast a devil?
Joh 8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honor my Father and ye do dishonor me.
If indeed flesh and blood and the carnal mind is Satan then Jesus would have been lying or the experiences He had of being tempted by the devil never happened, in fact there is an adversary who dines on the dust of carnal men's minds, what better ploy than to try to get people to believe you don't even exist as you plot and work tirelessly to destroy them.
Just as a covert agent or spy does not let his enemies know his true identity or even that he really exists this is one of Satan's strategies to give him the advantage as he deals with mankind.
Matthew 4
1Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
Matthew 17
14And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying,
15Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
16And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
17Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
18And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
Was the child cured of his flesh and blood, carnal mind?
Peace,
Joe
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Much here to think on.... It will come to our understanding in time I believe. Has anyone heard Appalachain mountain people refer to the "way"? Not a religious thing or denomination or anything like that ...just our journey. My Grandfather and Grandmother were both Cherokee. My Grandfather died when I was still a child but he and Grandmother told me of "the way". They observed nature, learned from it, lived from the land and made their medicines from the berries, leaves and barks of various plants. The way was the journey we take through this lifetime, learning from what and who is around us and always keeping your face headed forward even if you get knocked down by the wind. It is a learning process. When I think of what I thought I knew when I was 20 , 30, 35 years old I realize how much I still have to learn. We can learn together and face into the "wind" but stand as we do so. Blessings to you all, Jennie
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Thanks Jennie,
I like that (Face into the wind, but stand as we do so). The more we learn the more we know we do not know. ???
george. ;D
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Thanks Joe,
This is a question I struggled with.
As far as I understand it today, as God prunes my error, and grows new understanding in me daily, this has helped me so far...!
I think the confusion is Satan speaks to us in our mind, with an inaudible voice, just like our Carnal Mind does. If I call my Home and the person answering the phone says "Hello" I can immediately discern if it is my Husband or my Daughter speaking through the sense of hearing.
Oh that God will give us "ears" to hear the tones and intent of those voices in our head!
Has anyone ever experienced "Mind Chatter" thinking about something...going over and over it again and again like a computer program caught in a loop in your brain, and you tell yourself get over it....and you may even roll your eyes at what is going on in your head?
The fact that we talk with correction to that part of ourselves (carnal/egoic mind) is the awareness of the Beast within. And God manifesting his Holy Spirit in us to become a new creature with a different "Christ Consciousness"?
18And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
Was the child cured of his flesh and blood, carnal mind?
Peace,
Joe
That answer Say's it all for me that Satan is a separate entity! He seems to have power limited by God to inhabit the minds of mankind to effect their behavior and sometimes sickness in the body. ???
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Does any of you older folks remember the comedian "Flip Wilson" doing Geraldine who would always say...."The Devil made me do it"?
Just For Fun ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qAkEA-H_zE
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Hi Brenda, Yes, I remember him. Yes, for sure our mind is a battlefield. Been having some battles last couple of days. Hope you are doing well after your surgery.
In His Love,
Marlene
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Hi Brenda,
Thanks for your comments and it is great to have you back posting again, you were missed!
Has anyone here wondered why this thread was started, what was the motivation behind it?
Peace,
Joe
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Yes Joe
Whenever God's Truth is presented....Satan comes in with his lies. The forum is no exception
False doctrines abound in the churches because they fell for the lies
they could not "handle the truth" wherever they went and split and split into all the denominations.
Ray deals with all the time...he takes the brunt of nasty accusations, we here get the more craftier forms, people who say they have come out and they espouse understanding but still want to hold tightly to their own pet beliefs and they come here to persuade others.
beloved
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Yes Carol you nailed it!
It is rather obvious that the influence of our adversary and accuser is never very far away, we really need to discern the spirits constantly and once we begin to see rotten fruit whether it be our own or another's we have to thoroughly remove it. I am not saying to remove the person but to remove the nasty taste and indigestion that spoiled fruit can inflict on those who consume it.
Peace,
Joe
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I wonder... you know many churches start out okay but then a group gets disgruntled and they go off and start another and it just goes on and on. That thing of "divide and conquer"... does it perhaps apply to Satan and the battles that we have. If we become divisive and all maybe that is the "chink in the armor of the truth which comes from God. Now I am not saying that the churches are right because I don't think they are. There is far too much of people wanting thngs their way in church and leaving God out of it. We as brothers and sisters in the Truth are stronger as a team , unit or family if you will....but divided by the deceit of Satan ....the chain can become weak. I wish I knew how to better write what is in my heart and mind but maybe it will make some sense. Much love from the hills, Jennie
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Jennie perhaps this will help
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Do not worry about division..... The True church is built on the Truth, the Rock that is Jesus Christ....they will not prevail
If some will listen and understand the lies
(Jud 1:21) keep yourselves in [the] love of God, waiting for [or, expecting] the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.
(Jud 1:22) And be having mercy on some, making a distinction [between persons],(Jud 1:23) but others be saving with fear, snatching [them] out of a fire, hating even the tunic [or, garment] having been polluted [or, defiled] by the flesh.
If they people do not like what is said and decide to go elsewhere then so be it.... remember their rock is not our ROCK Deut 32:31
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
The big lie in Babylon is that you have to get along and be nice.....that is a distortion and in the True church of Jesus Christ .....it only holds for true brethern....who are able to handle all of these tribulation and trials with humility
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
beloved
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That getting along with Babylon is surely the truth of it! I got so tired of being put down just because I would try to puzzle things out in my own mind!
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Hi Joe and other mature ones, may this child speak ???.
Just a little levity; Cat herding anyone ::).
GOD Is Creating a people for HIS NAME and HE Has Chosen how this will be accomplished. The Rock Of
our Salvation and Inheritance Jesus Christ Is doing the Work without our help in any way. The Adversary
already knows he cannot win but since our nature is fertile ground for works of evil and rebellion he will
continue until That Day.
Ephesians 6:12:
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers
of the darkness of this world (age), against spiritual (hosts) wickedness in high (heavenly) places.
The above Scripture says against the rulers of the darkness of this world. Now most have accepted that
Satan rules this world but; does not the above scripture contradict that belief.
The scriptures below address the princes of this world: they rule the darkness of this world ?
John 12:31:
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
John 14:30:
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world comes, and has nothing in me.
I Corinthians 2:6:
However, we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of
the princes of this world, that come to nothing:
I Corinthians 2:8:
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified
the Lord of glory.
Ephesians 2:2:
Wherein in time past you walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of
the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience:
george.
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George
What is cat herding eluding to?
I do not exactly understand your question ?
Ephesians 6:12:
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world (age), against spiritual (hosts) wickedness in high (heavenly) places.
The above Scripture says against the rulers of the darkness of this world. Now most have accepted that Satan rules this world but; does not the above scripture contradict that belief.
The scriptures below address the princes of this world: they rule the darkness of this world
Just to let you know that you can preview your posts and edit them so your verses do not get chopped up . It makes them easier to read
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Ephesian to me is addressing the spiritual realm...just like the earth has individual, states and countries, the spiritual realm works on different levels
Satan can direct Demon(s) to possess an individual who are not in Christ
Remember the man with 2000 demons and the son who the disciples could not rod of demon Satan entered Judas. This could be possession or he addressed Juda lust for power
Satan can communicate with any personal mind and presents lies that feed the carnal flesh
From Eve down to the present, Peter was warned about this, David was urged to count his forces and then there is Geraldine
Satan and the spiritual also controls the activities of the world politics, music arts religions etc He can facilitate the Powers that effect the states and nations.
Remember in Daniel where Michael was detained over a battle over Persia, when Satan told Jesus that all of these were given to him. Satan is contolling the powers in the world through their lust for power money and sex
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. These are the three areas that Satan tried to use On Jesus in the Wilderness but failed.
(Luk 4:5) And the devil, taking him up into a high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
(Luk 4:6) And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
(Luk 4:7) If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
God has placed Satan in control all carnal aspects of this age as he did in the past. He was dashioned to consumet dust...and he is till feeding on it.
Did you ever wonder about the statement to the seven sons of Sceva
(Act 19:14) and there were certain--seven sons of Sceva, a Jew, a chief priest--who are doing this thing;
(Act 19:15) and the evil spirit, answering, said, `Jesus I know, and Paul I am acquainted with; and ye--who are ye?'
(Act 19:16) And the man, in whom was the evil spirit, leaping upon them, and having overcome them, prevailed against them, so that naked and wounded they did flee out of that house,
Being spirit they know that Jesus was Spiritually untouchable for them , they were aware that Paul was under the protection of God.also ..but the seven sons...were not any threat to those in the spiritual realm. So they prompted the possessed man to beat them up.
That is why Jesus said
John 14:30: Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world comes, and has nothing in me
George I am not sure that I understand where the contradiction is that you see. Can you explain more
beloved
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Hi Beloved,
(cat herding) i liken GOD keeping us in line to cat as opposed sheep herding. (ever seen a movie of it) ;D
I was not asking a question, just expressing a thought on who actually rules this World.
Not a contradiction of Scripture; contradiction of Ruler and Prince. A Prince is under a Higher Power, this is
something Ray alluded to in one of the LOF Series (re the Ruler of this World).
I have to run right now but can take this up later, thanks for your reply.
On the formatting, i do that deliberately to make shorter and more even lines for reading.
george.
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You now say
Not a contradiction of Scripture; contradiction of Ruler and Prince. A Prince is under a Higher Power, this is something Ray alluded to in one of the LOF Series (re the Ruler of this World).
Look and see how the word "Prince" is used...this is not about someone like Prince Charles waiting to be king
Prince in the Old testament means... exalted one , one in charge do a word search on it, In the New Testament the word prince can also refer to someone in charge
G758 ἄρχων archōn
Thayer Definition: 1) a ruler, commander, chief, leader Part of Speech: noun masculine
I also want to make this point here, You all say that you agree admire and understand what Indian Bob posted under Church Leader thread , then I do not understand why I sense a little sarcasm and redicule in your post.
To me your post did not indicate an observation but seemed more like a question since you said there was contradiction and as Ray would point out that there are no contradicitions in His Word
1Co 14:33 For God is not the Author of confusion
beloved
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I have read Mr. Ray's papers for about 3 years now and again I say I amaze myself in what I thought I knew and understood and how little I truly know and understand. Life is a journey of learning isn't it? Ya'll probably get tired of hearing this "child" say how lovely it is to be able to learn and converse here and the freedom to do so. We may disagree from time to time but about the big things... I think we stand in agreement. God is the Truth and the True church isn't a building or denomination but instead a lot of us who are going along the path of life, learning the way and heading into the wind sometimes. Much love to all of you siblings in the Lord ( I always wished for a big family!) and a goodnight to all, Jennie
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Beloved,
There is no sarcasm in any of my posts. I have no axe to grind and only learn and do what i can to edify
the brethren. If you detect any sarcasm it is not from me or my comments, those were observations about
my understanding of Royalty and not meant to besmirch or question anyone's statement. Again i say any
contradiction was as to rank not of anything else. I do spend most of my day and evening reading or
listening to Ray's Audios.
Ray has alluded to some question about the Ruler of this World ie: GOD Blinds while Satan decieves.
Please do not see conflict when there is none; there has been more than enough of that lately i think.
Peace and Understanding Sister,
george.
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The purpose of this forum is for us to be able to discuss Rays teachings and help us understand them. Joe started this topic was trying to look at this issue of satans distortion of truth.
Your post started
Hi Joe and other mature ones, may this child speak .
Just a little levity; Cat herding anyone .
You then wrote a lot of confusing scriptures and I replied to what I perceived to be a question
I did not see where you were making any clear statements and I guess I did not appreciate the idea that your original opening implied somehow that we posters have this attitude about ourselves...All genuine opinions are respected here.
Also I tried to be diplomatic about the format...it is extremely difficult to read sentences that are disconnected. Then when you wrote that you did this deliberately...it made me think that you were purposely making your post hard to read.
We have seen too much of Babylonian ideas being perpetrated recently here on the forum and many feel the need to rebuke these. So a people ma be edgy. ..heavens are being shaken....We all need to strive to be more mature and clear in presenting our views. We all need to be growing, because time is at a premium.
I love humor but it belongs in off topics, I do not appreciate it very much when I perceive that it disrupts a serious topic.
This is not about any conflict George, we are to be of one mind and each of us just needs to express ourselves better.
beloved
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Hi Joe and other mature ones, may this child speak ???.
Just a little levity; Cat herding anyone ::).
Hi George,
Like Beloved I was a little unsure of what you were trying to say here, I am going to attempt to further explain my good fruit/rotten fruit observation.
In reading your quote above I was wondering if this was directed at me sarcastically saying that I have a high opinion of myself as a "more mature" member, if it was then perhaps it could be counted as a piece of rotten fruit that would have ill effects on those who may be stirred to resentment toward me for my puffed up ego. Please understand that I am not saying this was your intention as I really do not believe it was.
On the other hand if I had responded to you after assuming I knew exactly what you meant with more sarcasm or even an impassioned, carnal rant against what (I myself assumed) you wrote against me. Had I written intemperate statements then it would have been me who produced the rotten fruit of divisiveness, strife and contention.
The purpose of this forum is for us to be able to discuss Rays teachings and help us understand them. Joe started this topic was trying to look at this issue of satans distortion of truth.
My point in starting this thread was exactly how Beloved perceived it, to attempt to illustrate how close by Satan is whenever those who seek a better understanding of God and His plan and purpose gather together. We all must use godly discernment as we patiently seek to understand each other, not jumping to conclusions or being overly defensive and especially not ascribing our own imaginations/temptations of evil upon others without first attempting to see what motivated them.
The subtitle about "Mature Members" was in Ray's article, not a self description of my own self, now in reality I am a more mature member than I was 3 1/2 years ago, or two years ago or even six months ago but I am comparing me to me not anyone else.
George I have always appreciated your contributions here and I knew there was more to your post than what my first impression was.
His Peace to you Brother,
Joe