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=> Off Topic Discussions => Topic started by: youthfortruth on September 15, 2008, 09:12:45 PM
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Lately I've been fascinated with the concept of "doublethink". Coined by George Orwell in the mid 20th century, doublethink basically means:
"The acceptance of two contradictory ideas or beliefs at the same time."
Does anyone believe this thinking is used in modern day Christian teachings? If so, can you state some examples?
-Andrew
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Hi Andrew,
Not sure about that teaching but the Bible speaks of being "Double Minded"
I'm not sure if this refers to being undecided/believing two things?
I certainly have felt double minded is a problem for me? But I haven't heard a teaching on what it actually means. I'm curious to learn....
James 1:6
But he must ask in faith, without any doubts, for the one who has doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. Such a person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. He is a double-minded man, unstable in all he undertakes.
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James 4:8Come close to God, and he will come close to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
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???
Brenda
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God is love. God is now torturing people in hell forever.
God is all soverign. God is not as soverign as we are.
God is all powerful. Gods' creation is being ruled over by the ultimate "fly in the ointment" Satan.
I am sure I can think of many more, after the coffee starts doing its thing.
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The most obvious one that comes to mind is the entire Hell doctrine. Once this heresy is understood, there isn't a clear statement of scripture that can be held true while also believing in eternal torment. The letters to Hagee and Kennedy should give you quite a good list.
It could well be said that the concept of free-will and the concept of the total sovereignty of God (including and especially His Foreknowledge) are also doublethink, though I don't believe that BOTH can be fully held and believed in the mind at the same time without 'blurring' the meanings of one or both. That would make this less doublethink and more 'less-than-perfect' understanding at best, and dishonesty at worst
One of Ray's gifts as a teacher is in hunting down 'apparent' contradictions in the scripture. There is a related word, though not identical in meaning, Paradox that Wiki partially defines "A paradox is a true statement or group of statements that leads to a contradiction or a situation which defies intuition;..." . Just by that definition, the scripture contains numerous 'paradoxes'. Die to live is a powerful one.
Of course, we know that even Christian denominations cannot agree on even major matters between themselves. So if you are talking about doublethink in Christendom's Theology in overview, it is chock full of contradictions, another related but not identical word.
It's been a long time since Philosophy 101, so I hope I haven't muddied the waters too much.
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Lately I've been fascinated with the concept of "doublethink". Coined by George Orwell in the mid 20th century, doublethink basically means:
"The acceptance of two contradictory ideas or beliefs at the same time."
Does anyone believe this thinking is used in modern day Christian teachings? If so, can you state some examples?
-Andrew
Good Thread Andrew,
I have the Movie 1984 and recently read the Book, here is a double-think for you; Man has Free Will but Gods Will(Matt.6:9) and Purposes thoroughout the Scriptures have always come true throughout History and the Free Will believers admit this, so as Ray mentioned, they came up with partial Free Will or God allows this or that when faced with this apparent contradiction.
However remember in the Book where they tell that Guy its not enough to have obedience towards Big Brother, you have to Love him. The Party knew everybodies worst fears, like the Rat in the cage at the end of The Movie. Reminds me of what took place in the Dark Ages with the Catholic Inquisitors like Torquemada and the horrible tortures he inflicted on " Heretics".
Kind Regards, Samson.
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Lately I've been fascinated with the concept of "doublethink". Coined by George Orwell in the mid 20th century, doublethink basically means:
"The acceptance of two contradictory ideas or beliefs at the same time."
Does anyone believe this thinking is used in modern day Christian teachings? If so, can you state some examples?
-Andrew
We are given one mind for one thought process, Only time i see this phenomenon happing if the person is named Sybil. ;)
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One of my favorite Orwellian sayings is from Animal Farm, "All Animals are created equal some animals are more equal than others." the Catholic Church maintains that the Pope is infallible (he can not make a mistake), yet he is also a man.
Televangelists will tell their flocks that their needs are greater than your needs. People will send in their last dime to support these hypocrites. Amazingly that action requires doublethinking, I need money to survive, however fill in the blank_____________ example John Hagee etc... needs my money more than I need my money? ::) :D
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lol Douglas.
We believe strongly in Hell and don't want you to go there. We're having a rummage sale at our church to raise money for the Youth Ski trip.
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I found this by Mike Miller at his site. Thought it was pretty good.
Traditional Christian Doubletalk
What Traditional Christians Say… What They Really Mean…
“There’s nothing you must do to be saved……” “Here’s what you must do to be saved:”
“You are absolutely, totally helpless to save yourself.” “You must make a wise decision in order to be saved.”
“God controls all things.” “God doesn’t control man’s free will.”
“We can’t boast about going to heaven.” “If we go to hell, it’s our own fault.”
“Love never faileth!” “Love can’t overcome human stubbornness.”
“Men are in bondage to sin.” “Men are free to choose Christ.”
“Grace is unmerited favor…” “… given only to those who merit it with faith and obedience.”
“GOD IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MANKIND (1 Tim. 4:10)…” “… except for about ninety percent of them.”
“GOD’S LOVE IS UNCONDITIONAL…” “… as long as you meet certain conditions.”
“GOD’S WILL IS UNOPPOSABLE…” “… except by the sinner.”
“Salvation is not a thing of chance.” “There is no second chance to be saved.”
“WE HAVE GOOD NEWS FOR YOU!” “Most of mankind will perish forever.”
“GOD LOVES YOU!” “… as long as you love Him.”
“Christ died for all sin…” “… except the sin of not believing that He died for all sin.”
“The Good Shepherd seeks the lost sheep until he finds it!” “The Good Shepherd seeks until it’s too late.”
“God’s justice was satisfied in the cross of Christ.” “God’s justice demands eternal torment or annihilation.”
Mike Miller, truth-over-tradition.com
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I found this by Mike Miller at his site. Thought it was pretty good.
Traditional Christian Doubletalk
What Traditional Christians Say… What They Really Mean…
“There’s nothing you must do to be saved……” “Here’s what you must do to be saved:”
“You are absolutely, totally helpless to save yourself.” “You must make a wise decision in order to be saved.”
“God controls all things.” “God doesn’t control man’s free will.”
“We can’t boast about going to heaven.” “If we go to hell, it’s our own fault.”
“Love never faileth!” “Love can’t overcome human stubbornness.”
“Men are in bondage to sin.” “Men are free to choose Christ.”
“Grace is unmerited favor…” “… given only to those who merit it with faith and obedience.”
“GOD IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MANKIND (1 Tim. 4:10)…” “… except for about ninety percent of them.”
“GOD’S LOVE IS UNCONDITIONAL…” “… as long as you meet certain conditions.”
“GOD’S WILL IS UNOPPOSABLE…” “… except by the sinner.”
“Salvation is not a thing of chance.” “There is no second chance to be saved.”
“WE HAVE GOOD NEWS FOR YOU!” “Most of mankind will perish forever.”
“GOD LOVES YOU!” “… as long as you love Him.”
“Christ died for all sin…” “… except the sin of not believing that He died for all sin.”
“The Good Shepherd seeks the lost sheep until he finds it!” “The Good Shepherd seeks until it’s too late.”
“God’s justice was satisfied in the cross of Christ.” “God’s justice demands eternal torment or annihilation.”
Mike Miller, truth-over-tradition.com
Dave-in-PA,
I so totally "enjoyed" your list of Christian doublethink... When If see it put down like this, I get sick to my stomach and my spirit grieves. Why would anyone in their right mind want to get to know this God? I can almost empathize with an atheist...