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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: lilitalienboi16 on October 31, 2013, 05:29:37 PM
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Has anyone done any more studying on this? On what ray wrote out in his paper?
I'm really curious simply because of how this nation as a whole appears to be progressing. We seem to be going the way of europe and other bankrupt countries such as japan and greece. These european countries also use socialized medicine and is also the reason to blame for their bankrupt status.
I think once upon a time, when I was really young in the Word and big on end time scenarios, the book of Danial was always something thrown around in these end of day circles. I know revelation is spiritual and symbolic for the most part though there may be end time prophetic implications in it as well. So anyone have any interesting studies they've done and want to share? Its something I think I'm going to start studying in greater depth now on my own due to everything going on and how ray felt strongly that our time was different than all the others before. This event was special in rays mind and I trust ray as a teacher to have steered us in the right direction so it perks my interest.
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There is a documentary called 'The Isaiah 9:10 Judgement' or something like that... A christian rabbi wrote a book and made a documentary version of the book. I thought it did a convincing job of tying the events of 9/11 and also events since then to scripture. Its pretty sobering.
I wont bore you with all the details but basically Isaiah 9:10 is the main passage he uses..
“The bricks have fallen down,
But we will rebuild with smooth stones;
The sycamores have been cut down,
But we will replace them with cedars.”
This was written by Isaiah and repeated after the 9/11 attack by the senate majority leader (forgot his name) as he addressed the nation and tried to offer some words of comfort to a shocked nation.. It was a touching moment, I suppose, to hear a politician read scripture in an attempt to console the people. Apparently, though, Isaiah was quoting Israels defiant stance toward God as He was executing judgement on Israel! So in essense the senate majority leader was declaring to God (prophetic or coincindence, you decide) that we, the US, will not be humbled by this! We will show you! We will rebuild stronger!
There is a lot more to it but its worth a look if youre interested in whether these times are prophetically significant or not.
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There is a documentary called 'The Isaiah 9:10 Judgement' or something like that... A christian rabbi wrote a book and made a documentary version of the book. I thought it did a convincing job of tying the events of 9/11 and also events since then to scripture. Its pretty sobering.
I wont bore you with all the details but basically Isaiah 9:10 is the main passage he uses..
“The bricks have fallen down,
But we will rebuild with smooth stones;
The sycamores have been cut down,
But we will replace them with cedars.”
This was written by Isaiah and repeated after the 9/11 attack by the senate majority leader (forgot his name) as he addressed the nation and tried to offer some words of comfort to a shocked nation.. It was a touching moment, I suppose, to hear a politician read scripture in an attempt to console the people. Apparently, though, Isaiah was quoting Israels defiant stance toward God as He was executing judgement on Israel! So in essense the senate majority leader was declaring to God (prophetic or coincindence, you decide) that we, the US, will not be humbled by this! We will show you! We will rebuild stronger!
There is a lot more to it but its worth a look if youre interested in whether these times are prophetically significant or not.
Very interesting! Thank you for sharing. I'll take a look at this passage and see if I can't find more information on the senate majority leader who spoke this verse and when it etc... (Essentially see if I can corroborate this claim. Not that I think you're lying to me :P)
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By all means... I think it was Tom Daschle? Not sure on the last name spelling.
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By all means... I think it was Tom Daschle? Not sure on the last name spelling.
Thanks! :)
Anyone else have any studying or thoughts to add?
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I believe the apostles ask Jesus a similar question to which Jesus said no one knows except the father and claimed that he didn’t know the day or hour either.
One thing I do know is that when a person dies the world ends for that one and because of this one can say that the world been ending every day since Cain killed his brother.
Hope that helps .
Peace and Love to all.
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I remember when I first heard of Charles Capps speaking of the 'Twin Towers' in his sermon "Solomon's Concept". It was produced after the event of 9/11. Interesting to listen to. Personally, I believe that when Jesus said that "It is finished", all the prophecies contained in the bible were completed as well.
Since the principle of God exists that it takes no less than two to agree, and 'towers' are that which was built by man and also made of brick; it stands in contrary to God. The Lord God gives us 'smooth stones' to build with; no sharp edges to harm us, His government is likened to the smooth stones that David picked out of the brook, which are the 5-fold ministry that defeated Goliath, and the same stones that Nehemiah and the people used to build the city with. Referencing the city that Nehemiah built, there still remain 'stones of stumbling' that yet needed to be thrown outside the walls of his city for it to be complete as the Lord demands. Bricks are just another way to express a stumbling block.
A cedar tree is very tough and will not bend and sway like the sycamore tree. Cedar trees are likened to God's Elect; those that will believe and not doubt, in spite of the circumstances. Cedars of Lebanon? Solomon was wise to build with these!
As for the fate of the USA? I firmly believe that the US has the blessing of Ephraim and she will recover from her losses, in time. Look towards the scriptures in 1 Samuel wherein the people cried out to God for a physical king. What they were actually saying to God was that they despised Him; did not esteem the Lord their God at all. So, God gave them a king! People that have no esteem for a Living God do get what they ask for (vote for). Liberalism has progressed so far into the imaginations of godless persons till it has virtually destroyed this once great country. But be of good cheer! His people, His Sons, those whom are the Elect, will bring Life once again within her borders. They carry the very presence of God within them. And Life cannot be undone by death. Do you believe?
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I remember when I first heard of Charles Capps speaking of the 'Twin Towers' in his sermon "Solomon's Concept". It was produced after the event of 9/11. Interesting to listen to. Personally, I believe that when Jesus said that "It is finished", all the prophecies contained in the bible were completed as well.
Since the principle of God exists that it takes no less than two to agree, and 'towers' are that which was built by man and also made of brick; it stands in contrary to God. The Lord God gives us 'smooth stones' to build with; no sharp edges to harm us, His government is likened to the smooth stones that David picked out of the brook, which are the 5-fold ministry that defeated Goliath, and the same stones that Nehemiah and the people used to build the city with. Referencing the city that Nehemiah built, there still remain 'stones of stumbling' that yet needed to be thrown outside the walls of his city for it to be complete as the Lord demands. Bricks are just another way to express a stumbling block.
A cedar tree is very tough and will not bend and sway like the sycamore tree. Cedar trees are likened to God's Elect; those that will believe and not doubt, in spite of the circumstances. Cedars of Lebanon? Solomon was wise to build with these!
As for the fate of the USA? I firmly believe that the US has the blessing of Ephraim and she will recover from her losses, in time. Look towards the scriptures in 1 Samuel wherein the people cried out to God for a physical king. What they were actually saying to God was that they despised Him; did not esteem the Lord their God at all. So, God gave them a king! People that have no esteem for a Living God do get what they ask for (vote for). Liberalism has progressed so far into the imaginations of godless persons till it has virtually destroyed this once great country. But be of good cheer! His people, His Sons, those whom are the Elect, will bring Life once again within her borders. They carry the very presence of God within them. And Life cannot be undone by death. Do you believe?
I can't agree with you on all prophecy being fulfilled.
Isaiah 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
This one from Isaiah has yet to be fulfilled.
Ezekiel 16:55 When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.
Sodom and Gomorrah have not been returned to their former estates. Neither has Isreal.
I'm sure I can dig out plenty more on the very same matter. I don't think "it is finished" was meant to be applied to all prophecy.
God bless,
Alex
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I believe the apostles ask Jesus a similar question to which Jesus said no one knows except the father and claimed that he didn’t know the day or hour either.
The apostles asked when He would return and what would be the sign of His coming. Jesus did say "no one knows except the Father" but that was only part of His answer to them. He actually had a LOT to tell them (and us) regarding what signs and happenings to look out for as His return would be approaching. Not only did He give them the signs to look for but He told them (and us) to watch for these signs, and keep alert! He WANTED them to know what to look for.
Rays paper "In The Day of Great Slaughter" on the prophetic significance of the events of 9/11 is awesome and I hope everyone reads it..
God Bless!
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I remember when I first heard of Charles Capps speaking of the 'Twin Towers' in his sermon "Solomon's Concept". It was produced after the event of 9/11. Interesting to listen to. Personally, I believe that when Jesus said that "It is finished", all the prophecies contained in the bible were completed as well.
Since the principle of God exists that it takes no less than two to agree, and 'towers' are that which was built by man and also made of brick; it stands in contrary to God. The Lord God gives us 'smooth stones' to build with; no sharp edges to harm us, His government is likened to the smooth stones that David picked out of the brook, which are the 5-fold ministry that defeated Goliath, and the same stones that Nehemiah and the people used to build the city with. Referencing the city that Nehemiah built, there still remain 'stones of stumbling' that yet needed to be thrown outside the walls of his city for it to be complete as the Lord demands. Bricks are just another way to express a stumbling block.
A cedar tree is very tough and will not bend and sway like the sycamore tree. Cedar trees are likened to God's Elect; those that will believe and not doubt, in spite of the circumstances. Cedars of Lebanon? Solomon was wise to build with these!
As for the fate of the USA? I firmly believe that the US has the blessing of Ephraim and she will recover from her losses, in time. Look towards the scriptures in 1 Samuel wherein the people cried out to God for a physical king. What they were actually saying to God was that they despised Him; did not esteem the Lord their God at all. So, God gave them a king! People that have no esteem for a Living God do get what they ask for (vote for). Liberalism has progressed so far into the imaginations of godless persons till it has virtually destroyed this once great country. But be of good cheer! His people, His Sons, those whom are the Elect, will bring Life once again within her borders. They carry the very presence of God within them. And Life cannot be undone by death. Do you believe?
I can't agree with you on all prophecy being fulfilled.
Isaiah 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
This one from Isaiah has yet to be fulfilled.
Ezekiel 16:55 When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.
Sodom and Gomorrah have not been returned to their former estates. Neither has Isreal.
I'm sure I can dig out plenty more on the very same matter. I don't think "it is finished" was meant to be applied to all prophecy.
God bless,
Alex
Jesus tells us that the Father seeks them that will worship in Spirit and in Truth. God does not want carnality and conjecture, which is what will happen when man uses their own understanding to interpret His Word.
Isaiah 26:9 was fulfilled the day Jesus was born on this earth. And if you are truly borne from above, then you are God's judgement placed on the earth for such a time as this. When will the nations learn of righteousness? Just as soon as you can kill the beast and minister as the Christ. Since the kingdom of God is within you, and so is the throne of God, you will win the people through your kingdom's influence while being near to them.
Israel missed her day of visitation when Jesus walked among her. Why? The Jews were looking for a man dressed in royal robes and dripping with money and jewels. And since you do not understand scripture, you are interpreting scripture after their manner. I'm not attempting to insult your heart, just your learned intelligence.
Look again at Ezekiel 16:55. Now ask yourself, "Where were the former estates of Sodom, Gomorrah, Samaria, Israel, and everyone born in the earth as a son of man?" (I know, you are thinking about lands and places. Wrong to think that way. Get the mind of the Anointed [Christ]). Where did these people originate? In God the Creator! Zachariah states that the spirits of men were formed from within God. And since Ezekiel was prophesying to the nation (people) of Israel, we can understand this as Truth because Apostle Paul said that God would give His grace to the gentiles, which in turn would cause the Jews to envy and return to God.
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Hi Loomech,
You have an understand that we do not share with you here. Most of what we believe and discuss is taught on the Bible-truths.com site. It would be a long and tedious task to explain all that is taught there here in bit and pieces... so it is up to you to read through what is put forth there and then if you want to share in with what we believe on these things.
We are not a forum that is here to refute all that anybody believes and wants to debate. So to keep it relatively peaceful we just try to keep discussions in the parameters of mainly what is taught on the Bible-truths site. If you do not agree with our approach, well that is find, but we require that you not bring teaching in opposition to what is already stated in great detail on the Bible-truths site. You may need to review the rules on posting here again, here is the link http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3.0.html
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Alex after months, years, of reading Rays interpretations I find that he leans to these things being done away with in us - or in those that are called [towers buildings temples etc] - the physical happens as examples of what is to occur in us spiritually and not in nations - in Gods time we are to be a holy nation a royal priesthood etc or perhaps I miss-read the core of what ray has understood
"In 3 days the temple will be destroyed"
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Alex after months, years, of reading Rays interpretations I find that he leans to these things being done away with in us - or in those that are called [towers buildings temples etc] - the physical happens as examples of what is to occur in us spiritually and not in nations - in Gods time we are to be a holy nation a royal priesthood etc or perhaps I miss-read the core of what ray has understood
"In 3 days the temple will be destroyed"
Thank you Ian 155, for stating your reply the way you did. Kinda helps me in the way I write my replies.
I said the same exact thing. I must have added far too much detail though.
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Alex after months, years, of reading Rays interpretations I find that he leans to these things being done away with in us - or in those that are called [towers buildings temples etc] - the physical happens as examples of what is to occur in us spiritually and not in nations - in Gods time we are to be a holy nation a royal priesthood etc or perhaps I miss-read the core of what ray has understood
"In 3 days the temple will be destroyed"
eh.. you have spent much more time reading Rays writtings than I. Maybe Im understanding his paper on 9/11 differently but what do you think about what Ray wrote specifically this...
If America doesn’t return to God and repent of her national and individual sins, America is going down, and nothing is going to stop it. Nero fiddled while Rome burned, and our great seers fiddle their messages of "deceit and SMOOTH things," while America is ready to go down in flames. ‘Me thinks’ Washington will also fiddle while America burns.
Also by reading just the opening paragraphs of his paper "In the day of great slaughter" it seems to me Ray understood the events of 9/11 as prophetically significant to the "end-times".
If im misreading it I apologize but he pretty much says it plainly in his own words.
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Ian is right, partly. Most of ray's material is spent discussing the beast within, putting off thr old man, judgment. Christ's words are spirit and life etc... however, ray was not talking about "America" within the believer and we do know fron Christ's own words that there will come the end for this earth, not just the chosen of God in a spiritual way.
It is possibe Ian has not read the two towers paper. Have you read iy Ian? If you have, apologies for thinking you havnt.
God bless,
Alex
P.S. I don't think anywhere in the scriptures is man refeerred to as "two towers" or even a tower. Can anyone cooberate this claim? I know we are certainly symbolically the temple of God, a holy nation, a peculiar people.
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Ian is right, partly. Most of ray's material is spent discussing the beast within, putting off thr old man, judgment. Christ's words are spirit and life etc... however, ray was not talking about "America" within the believer and we do know fron Christ's own words that there will come the end for this earth, not just the chosen of God in a spiritual way.
It is possibe Ian has not read the two towers paper. Have you read iy Ian? If you have, apologies for thinking you havnt.
God bless,
Alex
P.S. I don't think anywhere in the scriptures is man refeerred to as "two towers" or even a tower. Can anyone cooberate this claim? I know we are certainly symbolically the temple of God, a holy nation, a peculiar people.
When I wrote my explanation of the towers, I did explain what the towers where built with. And those material items are the key to hearing what will need to be changed. It is another way to say "the beast within." Ever hear of a "self-made man? It is a man who has made himself a graven image, which can not deliver him from his folly. It is vanity.
Though the bible is constructed of many books, it is simple in it's theme: Jesus is in the whole volume of the book. As Jesus spoke to his disciples in the NT in parables, Jesus, being fully God, does not change. He speaks to us in parables throughout the OT as well. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear (and understand) what the Spirit says.
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Isaiah 26:9 was fulfilled the day Jesus was born on this earth.
Isa 26:9
(CLV) With my soul I yearn for You in the night. Indeed, with my spirit within me I will seek You early. For as a light are Your judgments to the earth, the dwellers of the habitance learn righteousness."
The inhabitants of this earth certainly are NOT leaning righteousness. If anything it's getting worse.
(JPS) With my soul have I desired Thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me have I sought Thee earnestly; for when Thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness.
(KJV) With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
(Rotherham) With my soul, longed I for thee in the night, Yea with my spirit within me, I kept on searching for thee,—For, when thy regulations extend to the earth, The inhabitants of the world will have learned, righteousness.
Christ's judgments are NOT yet in the entire earth. This is clearly a future event.
And if you are truly borne from above, then you are God's judgement placed on the earth for such a time as this.
Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
This is not the time of the earths judgement. Other members can add a lot more to this.
When will the nations learn of righteousness? Just as soon as you can kill the beast and minister as the Christ.
I have never known anyone that 100% killed the beast (sinless). Judas was ministered in person by Jesus but his beast did not die.
Since the kingdom of God is within you, and so is the throne of God, you will win the people through your kingdom's influence while being near to them.
So much wrong here I don't know where to begin. We will win the people? Members, please tell Richard who wins the people.
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Ive heard Isaiah 17 brought up as a prophecy that has not happened yet..
1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.
2 The cities of Aroer are forsaken: they shall be for flocks, which shall lie down, and none shall make them afraid.
Ive also heard arguements saying that Damascus was sacked/conquered many times since Isaiah penned this prophecy, but as we can all attest to today Damascus is still a city. One of the oldest cities perhaps.. On the other side of the arguement, people have speculated this prophecy points to Damascus and the surrounding cities of Aroer being uninhabitable which is why the animals will roam free and the people will forsake the land.. one thought is that perhaps a nuclear attack would make the land uninhabitable for people due to the radiation.
I dont mean to rile any political feathers and this may not even need to be pointed out but maybe some dont realize Damascus is the capital city of the nation that the POTUS was literally begging the American people to let him bomb just a few weeks ago. Not saying that this prophecy is or was close to passing as a result of what is happening in Syria today, but it is just food for thought since this thread is in reference to Rays views on post 9/11 America and which direction it is going.
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It would be nice to have a crystal ball to look at the future US. I guess I'll just have to wait. :(
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You said it:
Mat 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
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Alex:
As far as what is happening in the world right now, I keep thinking of Matthew 24:38 as a sign that perhaps Jesus will return "soon". Jesus talks about what society was like right before the flood of Noah, and He mentions "marrying and giving in marriage", and in this society, the furthering acceptance of gay marriage comes to my mind. Thoughts?
Dean
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LoL Dennis! Now that is funny ;D. I'll leave that for someone that claims they are called to be a prophet. I make no such claims. I only know that Sons have the invitation to ask God concerning His sons.
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Alex:
As far as what is happening in the world right now, I keep thinking of Matthew 24:38 as a sign that perhaps Jesus will return "soon". Jesus talks about what society was like right before the flood of Noah, and He mentions "marrying and giving in marriage", and in this society, the furthering acceptance of gay marriage comes to my mind. Thoughts?
Dean
Its an interesting thought.
I just wonder though, we know during the greek and roman era's, homosexuality was a very open and everday part of life. So I wonder... I mean, its a first for American History, thats for sure. I guess time will tell.
The Damascus prophecy is also interesting, one I'm familiar with. I've started my studies on this matter with the Mind of Christ in it. A perspective I did not have before so by the Grace of God, these things shall become more clear to me with time. Whatever that may be.
God bless,
Alex
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Mat 24:38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
v. 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
This is interesting what Jesus said the time just prior to His return to earth would be like, just like what it was like before Noah's floor, what is He saying that will be like there? It seems to me that He is saying that everything was business as usual for all the people, they were going about everyday life and then suddenly, when they were not expecting anything (regardless that Noah had been warning them for 100 yrs) the flood came and sweep them all away.
I think it is wrong that people think there will be 'signs' that will show this age in near the end, at least that is what I see that Jesus was saying. The church has spoke of great tribulation and world turmoil... was that what happened before the flood? The world was terribly wicked before the floor and it has been ever since then up to this day and until Christ return. Just read a little history and you will see ample evidence of how this world has remained evil throughout all the centuries. His return will catch everybody by surprise, it will come out of the blue, so to speak.
1Th 5:1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.
v. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
v. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.
Now the elect may have an indication, but I do not believe that it will be from worldly signs of some kind. The elect should be always in a state of hoping for His return and God will make sure they are ready when He does return.
1Th 5:4 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness.
v. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.
v. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night.
v. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
v. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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This is my first post. I'll do an introduction soon. Since my teen's I have feared a "Great Tribulation". Now at about 60 years old it is an even greater concern. Death does not really bother me but God has lead me thru what has been a not so easy life. It has been my thought God would not spare me from end time troubles. Reading Bible Truths I have not been clear as to Ray's thoughts. Kat's remarks has given me pause to think maybe things are not going to be as I had feared. I come out of the WWCG which could put the fear of God in you. It would be good to hear from other as to their understanding.
I am thankful for God leading me to this site and feel a connection to many on this site. There will be more questions on a number of subjects and look forward to everyone's help.
Doug
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Good to meet you, Doug. Sounds to me like you well may have had a "great tribulation", and that it might well not be over. Dig into the Lake of Fire series. Check all the scripture references and see if what Ray is saying reaches you. Read Matthew 24 again with new eyes. He's no longer talking to the masses along with the disciples, but to the disciples alone.
Mat 24:1-3 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
If that makes sense to you, then keep reading the chapter. What I need to know about the "Great Tribulation" I find there.
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Mat 24:38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
v. 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
I used to think that everything was business as usual and then suddenly the flood came, but when I reread Mat 24:38, I noticed something....
In Mat 24:38, it says everything was business as usual until the day that Noah entered the ark, it doesn't say everything was business as usual until the flood came. Actually there was a seven day gap period between the day Noah entered the ark and the flood came.
Genesis 7:1 And the Lord said to Noah, Take all your family and go into the ark, for you only in this generation have I seen to be upright.
7:4 For after seven days I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, for the destruction of every living thing which I have made on the face of the earth.
7:7 And Noah, with his sons and his wife and his sons' wives, went into the ark because of the flowing of the waters.
7:10 And after the seven days, the waters came over all the earth.
The church has spoke of great tribulation and world turmoil... was that what happened before the flood?
What happened during the seven day gap? The Bible is silent about that. But what we know is that everything was business as usual until Noah entered the ark, and then something changed and people stopped having normal lifestyle during the next seven days, people didn't know what's going on until the flood came.
So I am wondering if it will be the same during end times - people will stop having normal lifestyle at some point, and then there will be a gap period between that point and the return of Jesus. Will the elect enter into a "safe place" (spiritually?) just like Noah entered into the ark before the gap period starts? And what will happen during the gap period? Didn't Ray also think that the day of the Lord comes after the great affliction?
http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm
Let us be clear, that the "day of the Lord" is the time period of Christ’s return to this earth to punish Babylon the Great and to pour out His righteous indignation on her (and on those nations who follow and worship her) for her evil crimes of inhumanity and blasphemy. Here is the order of events (Mat. 24:29-30). It’s as simple as one, two, three:
1. "Immediately AFTER the affliction [great affliction, or great tribulation--ver. 29], of those days ...
2. "... the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not be giving her beams, and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken ...
3. "And THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of Mankind in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land shall grieve, and they shall see the Son of Mankind coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory."
The "day of the Lord," the day that the Lord comes, clearly is "after" the great affliction, and "after" the heavenly signs. The book of Joel gives us a second confirmation:
"Alas! Alas! Alas for the day! For near is the DAY OF THE LORD.
And as devastation from Him Who-Suffices is it coming" (Joel 1:15).
"For coming is the DAY OF THE LORD! A day of darkness and gloominess. A day of clouds and murkiness" (Joel 2:2).
"The heavens quake, The sun and the moon are somber, and the stars gather in their brightness ... before His army [Rev. 19:11] (Joel 2:10) ...
"And He will spare His people" (2:18).
"And I will give MIRACLES IN THE HEAVENS above, And signs on the earth, Blood and fire and pillars of smoke, The sun shall be turned to darkness, And the moon to blood (2:30-31), BEFORE the coming of the DAY OF THE LORD, the great and fearful day" (2:30-31).
So we have this event neatly book-ended with references to the "great affliction" and the "heavenly signs." Matt. 24:29 clearly tells us that "immediately AFTER" the great affliction or tribulation of those days, the signs in the sun, moon and stars occur, followed by the return of Christ--the day of the Lord. And Joel 2:31 clearly tells us that the signs in the heavens occur "BEFORE" the coming of the day of the Lord. As to the chronology of these grand events, there can be no honest dispute--the day of the Lord does not include the great tribulation, but comes after the great tribulation, and after the heavenly signs.
We have already shown in Scripture that the great tribulation ends at our Lord’s advent, it does not begin. Nor is the tribulation ushered in, as a thief, three and one half years earlier or seven years earlier. It is our Lord’s "coming" that is as a thief, not "tribulation." "Gloominess" and "darkness" during the time of the day of the Lord is not the main aspect of the figure of a thief or even a minor aspect of this figure of a thief. The Bible tells us plainly what the figure represents. It is representative of "when He comes" -- "His coming"! Nothing else.
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This is my first post. I'll do an introduction soon. Since my teen's I have feared a "Great Tribulation". Now at about 60 years old it is an even greater concern. Death does not really bother me but God has lead me thru what has been a not so easy life. It has been my thought God would not spare me from end time troubles. Reading Bible Truths I have not been clear as to Ray's thoughts. Kat's remarks has given me pause to think maybe things are not going to be as I had feared. I come out of the WWCG which could put the fear of God in you. It would be good to hear from other as to their understanding.
I am thankful for God leading me to this site and feel a connection to many on this site. There will be more questions on a number of subjects and look forward to everyone's help.
Doug
Hello Doug and welcome to the forums. It seems you chose a rather difficult topic to make your introduction. I apologize for that seeing as I am the one who started this discussion. It is a rather complicated one and one I would not consider, milk, fit for babes in Christ.
That being said, I wanted to encourage you.
1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
Isaiah 41:13 "For I am the Lord your God, who takes hold of your right hand and says to you, DO NOT FEAR; I WILL help you."
You should fear God, as in have "aw and respect" for Him. Do not fear Him, as if you would fear a man who has come to do you harm. God is good and God is love.
Luke 18:19 "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God."
Nahum 1:7 "The LORD is good, a stronghold in the day of trouble; he knows those who take refuge in him."
1 John 4:8 "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."
1 Corinthians 13:8 "Love NEVER fails."
Despite these things;
Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that WE MUST THROUGH MUCH TRIBULATION enter into the kingdom of God.
Revelation 1:9 "I John, who also am your brother, and COMPANION IN TRIBULATION, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."
John 16:33 "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world YE SHALL HAVE TRIBULATION: but BE OF GOOD CHEAR; I have overcome the world."
2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
Tribulations are a part of the journey. You are in good company here, do not fear :)
Hebrews 12:5-11 "And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye ********, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby."
Proverbs 3:11-12 My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord; neither be weary of his correction:For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
Welcome aboard doug, It's all apart of the journey.
Judgement has began upon the house of God
1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
so rejoice that you are blessed to be apart of it now, for if we should be judged now, we shall not be judged later (Great white throne judgement).
1 Cor 11: 31-32 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world."
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such THE SECOND DEATH HATH NO POWER, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
God bless,
Alex
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Mat 24:38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
v. 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
I used to think that everything was business as usual and then suddenly the flood came, but when I reread Mat 24:38, I noticed something....
In Mat 24:38, it says everything was business as usual until the day that Noah entered the ark, it doesn't say everything was business as usual until the flood came. Actually there was a seven day gap period between the day Noah entered the ark and the flood came.
Genesis 7:1 And the Lord said to Noah, Take all your family and go into the ark, for you only in this generation have I seen to be upright.
7:4 For after seven days I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, for the destruction of every living thing which I have made on the face of the earth.
7:7 And Noah, with his sons and his wife and his sons' wives, went into the ark because of the flowing of the waters.
7:10 And after the seven days, the waters came over all the earth.
The church has spoke of great tribulation and world turmoil... was that what happened before the flood?
What happened during the seven day gap? The Bible is silent about that. But what we know is that everything was business as usual until Noah entered the ark, and then something changed and people stopped having normal lifestyle during the next seven days, people didn't know what's going on until the flood came.
So I am wondering if it will be the same during end times - people will stop having normal lifestyle at some point, and then there will be a gap period between that point and the return of Jesus. Will the elect enter into a "safe place" (spiritually?) just like Noah entered into the ark before the gap period starts? And what will happen during the gap period? Didn't Ray also think that the day of the Lord comes after the great affliction?
http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm
Let us be clear, that the "day of the Lord" is the time period of Christ’s return to this earth to punish Babylon the Great and to pour out His righteous indignation on her (and on those nations who follow and worship her) for her evil crimes of inhumanity and blasphemy. Here is the order of events (Mat. 24:29-30). It’s as simple as one, two, three:
1. "Immediately AFTER the affliction [great affliction, or great tribulation--ver. 29], of those days ...
2. "... the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not be giving her beams, and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken ...
3. "And THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of Mankind in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land shall grieve, and they shall see the Son of Mankind coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory."
The "day of the Lord," the day that the Lord comes, clearly is "after" the great affliction, and "after" the heavenly signs. The book of Joel gives us a second confirmation:
"Alas! Alas! Alas for the day! For near is the DAY OF THE LORD.
And as devastation from Him Who-Suffices is it coming" (Joel 1:15).
"For coming is the DAY OF THE LORD! A day of darkness and gloominess. A day of clouds and murkiness" (Joel 2:2).
"The heavens quake, The sun and the moon are somber, and the stars gather in their brightness ... before His army [Rev. 19:11] (Joel 2:10) ...
"And He will spare His people" (2:18).
"And I will give MIRACLES IN THE HEAVENS above, And signs on the earth, Blood and fire and pillars of smoke, The sun shall be turned to darkness, And the moon to blood (2:30-31), BEFORE the coming of the DAY OF THE LORD, the great and fearful day" (2:30-31).
So we have this event neatly book-ended with references to the "great affliction" and the "heavenly signs." Matt. 24:29 clearly tells us that "immediately AFTER" the great affliction or tribulation of those days, the signs in the sun, moon and stars occur, followed by the return of Christ--the day of the Lord. And Joel 2:31 clearly tells us that the signs in the heavens occur "BEFORE" the coming of the day of the Lord. As to the chronology of these grand events, there can be no honest dispute--the day of the Lord does not include the great tribulation, but comes after the great tribulation, and after the heavenly signs.
We have already shown in Scripture that the great tribulation ends at our Lord’s advent, it does not begin. Nor is the tribulation ushered in, as a thief, three and one half years earlier or seven years earlier. It is our Lord’s "coming" that is as a thief, not "tribulation." "Gloominess" and "darkness" during the time of the day of the Lord is not the main aspect of the figure of a thief or even a minor aspect of this figure of a thief. The Bible tells us plainly what the figure represents. It is representative of "when He comes" -- "His coming"! Nothing else.
Post retracted. I could not find what I thought I read here on bible truths. Apologies. I was mistaken!
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Alex, from where do you get that the moon is symbolic of God's elect?
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Alex, from where do you get that the moon is symbolic of God's elect?
You're right dave. I could not substantiate this claim. My apologies. I was mistaken!
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Hi zvezda,
I certainly have thought of those days after Noah went into the ark before the flood came. Does Noah represents Jesus Christ and Noah and his family the few? And God Himself determined when the door of the Ark would be shut by his own hand.
Gen 7:16 So those that entered, male and female of all flesh, went in as God had commanded him; and the LORD shut him in.
There are some interesting Scriptures that seem to parallel the Door being shut.
Luke 13:25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, "Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you, "I do not know you, where you are from,'
Could there be a spiritual wedding that takes place in the short interval from the Door being shut and the flood that is imminent?
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with Him to the wedding; and the door was shut.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Luk 13:23 Now someone said to Him, "Lord, are few being saved?Now He said to them, "
Luk 13:24 Be struggling to be entering through the cramped door, for I am saying to you, many will be seeking to enter and will not be strong enough."
Luk 13:25 From which time the householder should be roused and latch the door, and you should be beginning to stand outside and to be knocking at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!' and answering, he will be declaring to you, 'I am not acquainted with you! Whence are you?'"
Luk 13:26 Then should you be beginning to say, 'We ate and drank in your sight, and in our squares you teach!'"
Luk 13:27 He also will be declaring: 'I am saying to you, I am not acquainted with you! Whence are you? Withdraw from me, all workers of injustice!'"
Luk 13:28 There will be lamentation and gnashing of teeth, whenever you should be seeing Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, yet you cast outside."
Luk 13:29 And they will be arriving from east and west and from north and south and will be made to recline in the kingdom of God.
Luk 13:30 And lo! they are last who will be first, and they are first who will be last."
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Mat 24: 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Hi Kat, it seems to me, they probably were confused about something since they didn't know what's going on until the flood came, they obviously didn't even try to knock or ask to open the door. So I don't think there's a spiritual wedding from the door being shut and the flood that is imminent. But you brought up a good point about the door being shut, I guess we need to study more and wait for God granting us the understanding.
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Mat 24: 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Hi Kat, it seems to me, they probably were confused about something since they didn't know what's going on until the flood came, they obviously didn't even try to knock or ask to open the door. So I don't think there's a spiritual wedding from the door being shut and the flood that is imminent. But you brought up a good point about the door being shut, I guess we need to study more and wait for God granting us the understanding.
Of course the world will be confused and not know what is happening when Christ is returning and what do you think the people of the world will think when they see the "sign of the Son of man will appear"... they will "mourn" at what they believe is happening.
Mat 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
v. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The ark represents Jesus Christ ("God saved Noah and his family from the raging waves of the sea in an ark. When we come to understanding spiritual things, we will clearly see that the ark represents Christ" http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html) and Noah's family "the few" (1Peter 3:20) represents the elect. When the elect have enter into the Ark-Christ-Kingdom, is when the door will be shut, "when once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door" (Luke 13:25).
When does this spiritual "wedding" of the elect take place? Well as soon as "the Lord our God... becomes King" and begins His reign and He raises the elect into His kingdom to meet Him in the air... when the bride meets the Bridegroom is the wedding - the marriage of the Lamb.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
v. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Rev 19:6 And I heard as a voice of a great multitude, and as a voice of many waters, and as a voice of mighty thunderings, saying—Hallelujah! Because the Lord, our God, the Almighty, hath become King.
v. 7 Let us rejoice and exult, and give glory unto Him, because the marriage of the Lamb, is come, and, His wife, hath made herself ready;
v. 8 and it hath been given unto her, that she should be arrayed in fine linen, bright, pure, for, the fine linen, is, the righteous acts of the saints.
v. 9 And he saith unto me—Write! Happy, they who, unto the marriage supper of the Lamb, have been bidden! And he saith unto me—These words, are, true words of God. (Rotherham)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Hi Kat, I think I misunderstood your previous post. When you mentioned Luke 13:25 -
Luke 13:25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, "Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you, "I do not know you, where you are from
I was focusing on what's happening outside the door/ark, that's why I said the people obviously didn't even try to knock or ask to open the door, hence I didn't think there's a spiritual wedding (outside the door/ark).
I guess for this kind of topic, I tend to focus more on what will be happening to the world than to the elect. :P
We already know what happened to Noah and his family, they were in the ark, safe and sound. What we don't know is what happened to the people outside. Once Noah entered the ark, they stopped having the normal lifestyle. What made them stop? And what were they doing if they weren't having a normal lifestyle?
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zvezda, the Judgement of God begins in His Own house. Is the whole world even being judged now? I don't think so. They are "already" condemned. The judgement and salvation of the world is for the next age. It is "believers" who are being separated. The Ark is Christ. Noah's family are the chosen ones IN HIM. Many will say unto Him, "Lord, did we not do wondrous works in Thy name?" That's not the world...that's the church. And He will answer and say "depart from me, for I never knew you." Many are called, few are chosen. That message of Scripture concerning the Gospel of the Kingdom is EVERYWHERE in Scripture.
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Hi Everyone,
I thought I would throw in my two cents, if I may on Noah and the ark. Gen. 7:4,10. After Noah went into the Ark it didn't rain for seven days. After seven days the rain came and it rained for forty days and forty nights. Could it be that it took seven days for Noah to gather all the animals and food they would need before the flood came? In other words it took seven days to prepare all that had to be done before the flood, as God is preparing the Elect for His kingdom right now.
The people on the outside could have been mocking and pointing their fingers, as they do to us today. Not believing and not caring. The hundred tears that Noah preached did not sway them, but we know there is another hundred years mentioned in the Word of God. Isa. 65:20
This is what I see right now, but I could be wrong. Anymore insights from anyone would be appreciated.
Your Sister in Christ,
Virginia Miller
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This is my first post. I'll do an introduction soon. Since my teen's I have feared a "Great Tribulation". Now at about 60 years old it is an even greater concern. Death does not really bother me but God has lead me thru what has been a not so easy life. It has been my thought God would not spare me from end time troubles. Reading Bible Truths I have not been clear as to Ray's thoughts. Kat's remarks has given me pause to think maybe things are not going to be as I had feared. I come out of the WWCG which could put the fear of God in you. It would be good to hear from other as to their understanding.
I am thankful for God leading me to this site and feel a connection to many on this site. There will be more questions on a number of subjects and look forward to everyone's help.
Doug
Hi Dough,
Please find time to read this...
Hi Ray,
I have been really praying and asking God for wisdom and being led to bible-truths.com seemed to have been His answer. After inquiring further from God and asking His spirit, I can now say with all confidence that in all my strivings to love the Lord in all my life, i have not experienced as much freedom as now as a believer. God has become so much bigger, more intelligent, more perfect and more Loving than I have known His perfection to be. For this, I am now loving Him more and his people, obeying Him more, and feels like my life just started to count where it matters the most.
Please help me with a very important question. I am currently a member of a christian church that is very much one of "Christendom's". What should I do now after receiving all these truths? Should I bid goodbye to my pastor and church? My father-in-law is also a pastor of another church and my entire family are christians of "Christendom's", how should I share these truths? Because honestly, I may not be able to share to them as precise and as scripturally based as you would. Basically, how should I start living, doing from now (practically speaking).
Thank you for your time and attention. God bless you, your family and the precious work you do in the Lord!
Nate
Dear Nate: I get asked this a lot, but there is no easy formula for me to give you. You know that you should obey God. This is the primary thing we must all do. But for me to tell you how to live your life on a daily basis, I'm afraid I can't do. If you don't know whether you should continue living in the Babylonian Church system, what good would it be for me to tell you that God says, "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE...." (Rev. 18:4)? If you try to convert your family, friends, and relatives to your new-found truths, they will think you crazy or may even turn on you. So leave them alone. The way you conduct your life will speak volumes about what you believe, however, clever arguments will convince no one. Of the tens of thousands of detractors who have tried to contradict my teachings, which I then answered and proved them wrong with the Scriptures, how many do you suppose said: "Oh, okay, now I see it. I'm sorry. I was deceived. I see now that you do teach the truth"? Would you believe 2 or 3? That's right--2 or 3 out of tens of thousands.
You will face ever-changing challenges in your life--every few seconds, minutes, and hours of every day. You will have to decide how to handle these situations, one at a time. Learn the Truth and then live by the Truth. Did Jesus teach His apostles how to react to every situation that would confront them after He was gone? No, no He didn't. Life is indeed a challenge, and in the final analysis it all comes down to YOU AND GOD. I am at the same place that you are, Nate. No one tells me how to solve all my problems. I just obey God and rely on Him to see me through. Many people want to be teachers after learning a few of the basic truths of God. This is generally a mistake, as it takes more to be a teacher than a desire to teach. I might desire to be a great singer, or a great speller--the reality is both are totally out of the question. I am what I am by the grace of God. I realize that most think it is rather scary to try and live a righteous life not knowing exactly what to do and how to do it. Your darn right it's scary. Life is scary. But knowing that there is a loving God Who is carrying out a righteous and wise purpose on this earth is a giant aid to our infirmities.
There is no better way to assuage our own inadequacies than to help others with theirs. I remember when I was going to college back in California, we took a weekend camping trip to the San Bernadino Mountains. One day we climbed this mountain. A couple of chaperone's brought their children. At one place high up the mountain we followed a trail that was precariously close to a cliff with a long drop. I was getting a little nervous. However, close to me was one of the children (a girl of maybe 8 or 9 years), and she was beginning to have a panic attack. I took her by the hand and put her on the inside and assured her that we would not fall. My fear left me immediately, and the little girl did just fine also. I never forgot that experience. Help and love others, and your life will begin to take on meaning.
God be with you,
Ray
@Topic
Always be full of joy in the Lord. I say it again—rejoice!
Let everyone see that you are considerate in all you do. Remember, the Lord is coming soon.
Don't worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done.
Then you will experience God's peace, which exceeds anything we can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus. Phl 4:4-7
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Hi Virginia, Mat 24:38 says the people on the outside were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark. That means they stopped having that kind of lifestyle for the next seven days.
I understand they were mocking and pointing their fingers, not believing and not caring etc, when Noah was building the ark and before the door was shut, but not after the door was shut and during the next seven days, because that would mean that they were still having their usual lifestyle during the seven days.
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Hi Zvezda, I understand what you are saying and why, but if you remember during the hundred years Noah and his sons were building the Ark, afterwards they were commanded to put the food and animals in the ark. Gen.7:11-24 especially vs. 13 tells us that it was the selfsame day that Noah and his family and the animals went into the ark that the rains came, not before. it seems to me that God gave them seven days to put everything in the ark before He shut the door and the rains came. The people were doing exactly what the word said they were doing, eating, drinking and marrying and giving in marriage until the flood came and took them all away. I am in the process of learning too, so I am just pointing out what I believe scripture is saying. No debating. Love and Blessing, Virginia
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The people were doing exactly what the word said they were doing, eating, drinking and marrying and giving in marriage until the flood came and took them all away.
But Mat 24:38 clearly tells us they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark.
It doesn't say they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that the flood came.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark
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Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
v. 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
v. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
v. 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Hi zvezda, I just don't see in the Scripture where it explains anything changed from what they were doing from before Noah went in and after he went and the flood came. Do you know of a Scripture that says they began to behave differently?
If you will notice the Scripture states what they were doing then there is "and" at the beginning of verse 39, which means it is included in what was being said. It also goes on to say they "didn't know"/believe it "until the flood came." If they had begun to behaved differently then what was just prior spoken of (eating, drinking, marriage) don't you think it would have been mentioned in Scripture? The Scripture gave a description of how the world was then and saying it will be the same at the end of the age.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Hi Kat, I don't have a scripture that says they began to behave differently after Noah entered the ark, like I said in one of my previous posts (Reply #26), the Bible is silent about what happened during the 7 day gap.
As for the verses, the way I see it is that the word "and" is just a joiner (in addition) that connects 2 related events that took place on 2 different dates. Some of the other translations don't have the word "and" in Mat 24:39, some use the word "then" instead of "and" in Luke 17:27.
Why do the verses have to mention both the day Noah went in and the day the flood came? Wouldn't it be good enough to make the point by just saying they were eating, drinking, marrying and did not know until the flood came?
Let me give you an example:
I was attending a church, tithing, until the day I stumbled upon bible-truths.com,
and did not know/believe it until 7 days later when I finished reading the whole LOF series and it blowed me away.
Does it tell you I kept attending the church and tithing after I stumbled upon bible-truths.com?
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What happened during the seven day gap? The Bible is silent about that. But what we know is that everything was business as usual until Noah entered the ark, and then something changed and people stopped having normal lifestyle during the next seven days, people didn't know what's going on until the flood came.
So I am wondering if it will be the same during end times - people will stop having normal lifestyle at some point, and then there will be a gap period between that point and the return of Jesus. Will the elect enter into a "safe place" (spiritually?) just like Noah entered into the ark before the gap period starts? And what will happen during the gap period? Didn't Ray also think that the day of the Lord comes after the great affliction?
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Hello zvezda, Greetings!
You are asking what happened during the seven day gap. In my opinion it is business as usual in the seven days gap you are asking.
In Genesis 7 God Said to Noah to enter the ark. It would have been seven days that Noah is collecting all what Lord is telling him.
1And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. 2Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. 3Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. 4For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth5And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.
After 7 days flood came in and thus abrupt evidenced that all the fountains of the great deep broken up. "the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened."
10And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth. 11In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
so meaning while Noah is collecting the things that the Lord is asking him let us say 7 days it will be a normal things to the people since the flood is not yet come. It is only after the seven days that the flood came in and it is abrupt evidenced in verse 10 that the waters of the flood were upon the earth and all the fountains of the great deep broken up.
That is the 7 gap days you are asking and they dont know the flood is coming until seven days had been passed. They were eating, drinking, marrying............
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
v. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
v. 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
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You are asking what happened during the seven day gap. In my opinion it is business as usual in the seven days gap you are asking.
Hi santgem,
Why does Mat 24:38 say "they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark"?
Why doesn't it say "they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that the flood came"?
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You are asking what happened during the seven day gap. In my opinion it is business as usual in the seven days gap you are asking.
Hi santgem,
Why does Mat 24:38 say "they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark"?
Why doesn't it say "they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that the flood came"?
hi again zvezda,
The answer is in verse 39, And knew not until the flood came.
Mat 24:39
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
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You are asking what happened during the seven day gap. In my opinion it is business as usual in the seven days gap you are asking.
Hi santgem,
Why does Mat 24:38 say "they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark"?
Why doesn't it say "they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that the flood came"?
hi again zvezda,
The answer is in verse 39, And knew not until the flood came.
Mat 24:39
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
hi santgem, please see my reply to Kat (Reply #43).
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Why do the verses have to mention both the day Noah went in and the day the flood came? Wouldn't it be good enough to make the point by just saying they were eating, drinking, marrying and did not know until the flood came?
The reason that the 7 days are mentioned is because it did happen that way and God saw fit to have it recorded as fact and do believe there is a reason that God wanted it to be put in there, but I have already said what I think it is.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Hi Kat, I was in a hurry when I first made this post, I just edited it.
Why do the verses have to mention both the day Noah went in and the day the flood came? Wouldn't it be good enough to make the point by just saying they were eating, drinking, marrying and did not know until the flood came?
The reason that the 7 days are mentioned is because it did happen that way and God saw fit to have it recorded as fact and do believe there is a reason that God wanted it to be put in there, but I have already said what I think it is.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
That's the point, Kat.
God saw fit to have it recorded as fact that there were 2 events, with 2 end dates. it wasn't two events with one end date. It's like God is telling us event1 was happening until date1, and event2 was happening until date2.
It was business as usual either until the day Noah entered the ark, or until the flood came, you can't have it both ways.
To make the verses more clear, I think we can insert the 2 dates into the verses. Let's assume Noah entered the ark on Dec 1, and seven days later the flood came on Dec 8.
Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
v. 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark [on Dec 1], and the flood came [on Dec 8] and destroyed them all.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
v. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark [on Dec 1],
v. 39 and did not know until the flood came [on Dec 8] and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
If you still think they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until Dec 8, then I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
By the way, I remember Dennis once questioned about "the tribulations in the end time and also what seems to be a normal lifestyle with getting married, etc. How can both be true at the same time" (see http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,14735.msg130374.html#msg130374 )
I was thinking it makes more sense if people stop having normal lifestyle during the tribulations, just like the 7 days between Noah entered the ark and when the flood came.
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I was thinking it makes more sense if people stop having normal lifestyle during the tribulations, just like the 7 days between Noah entered the ark and when the flood came.
Okay zvezda I get what you are saying, the Scripture are to the elect and the 'tribulation' happens during their lives as they are being prepared. Noah was being persecuted by the people while he was building the ark, not after he entered it.
John 16:33 These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm -------------
And notice what John tells us in Revelation:
"And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are Thy judgments" (Rev. 16:7).
It is not by escaping tribulation that we enter God's Kingdom (as in the unscriptural rapture theory), but by going "through much tribulation."
The phrase "The great tribulation" is used hundreds of thousands of times by the Church, and yet (just as there is no such thing as "THE antichrist") there is no such phrase in the Bible as "The great tribulation." Oh there is tribulation and great tribulation alright, but not just one called "The" tribulation.
v
"Immediately after [does everyone understand the difference between 'before' and 'after?'] ...immediately after the tribulation of those days.... He [Jesus] shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet [I Cor. 15:52], and they shall gather together His elect [for the first time, I might also add] from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other" (Matt. 24:29 & 31).
One other major point: Clearly this verse and others show that Christ returns "after the tribulation of those days." "But in those days, after the tribulation... shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His Elect..." (Mark 13:24 & 27).
And Jesus is said to come in wrath:
"...hide us from the face of Him that sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb: for the great day of His wrath is come..." (Rev. 6:16-17)
"And the seventh angel sounded... [the seventh trump is the last trump, I Cor. 15:52] ...and Thy wrath is come..." (Rev. 11:18)
The days of "great tribulation" end at Christ's presence, and the day of "His wrath" begins at His presence. They are two separate and different events, and different judgments on different people for different purposes. If you have not seen or do not understand the absolute differences in Scripture between tribulation and affliction versus wrath and indignation, then be sure to read my ten-page section dealing with it in detail, in my paper "Exposing the Secret Rapture Theory."
Tribulation is almost exclusively administered to God's people.
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Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?"
Rev 7:14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Maybe we cannot resolve the way we are seeing this here, but we are all still studying and learning these things.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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the Scripture are to the elect and the 'tribulation' happens during their lives as they are being prepared. Noah was being persecuted by the people while he was building the ark, not after he entered it.
yeah, I know the elect are going through trials and tribulations, I know judgement begins at the house of God.
So let me get this straight - Besides the tribulations that the elect are going through in their lives, there is no such thing as "end time tribulations", correct? Because from Dennis's post, I got the impression that Ray also thought there would be end time tribulations.
I am also stuck with this verse:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
What kind of tribulation are the elect going through that hasn't taken place from the beginning of the world until now, and never will again? I thought whatever an elect was going through, it's nothing new, it happened before, and it would happen again to other elect?
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Well zvezda, I have my opinions, but I just do not feel I can continue this discussion on something that Ray did not teach on. Now if you are interested pm's are another way to discuss things as well and I'm just going to leave it at that.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Not to sure about all the prophetic stuff however the whole flood ,married ,giving in marriage,like a thief etc is Christ coming in us this is seemingly a process whereby Christ is formed in us by the Father " it is now no longer I that live but Christ in me' so yes I believe I have the spirit of God and all these things such as idols ,towers etc are coming down - seems the process is.... at that time,woe to those who are pregnant or nursing when this happens there were 2 at the mill grinding, one was taken etc [separation] first, exclusion, hated by all men etc get the pic ?
When Jesus starts clearing Gods temple ,using a whip ,turning over tables [or everything we have been taught by life in this world starts becoming strangely dimmer etc ] then you have no choice but to live by faith it seems
I dont think one can prepare for this event either
the coming of our Lord in us is like no other, its terrifying according to Moses, Daniel and John
Yes Alex I have read the towers papers however I am referring to Rays main thrust throughout all his material ....
as I understand it
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Isaiah 9:10
10 The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn stones: the sycomores are cut down, but we will change them into cedars.
On 9/11 The bricks fell down and a single Sycamore tree was uprooted. On 9/12 Tom Daschel quoted Isaiah 9:10 in response to the events of the day prior. No one had yet known any tree had been uprooted. Tom Daschel meant for those words to bring comfort to the peple but Isaiah 9:10 is actually Israels defiant spirit towards God who was giving them a chance to return to Him. On the same day as Tom Daschel quoting Isaiah 9:10, John Kerry says that the US should right away commit to rebuilding a world trade center tower to show the world our defiance.
Fast forward a couple years and the new trade center tower is underway using a humungous hewn stone as the corner stone and a big ceremony ensues around this hewn stone. Also that sycamore tree that was uprooted is cast into a bronze sculpture and placed on wall street. Where the sycamore originally was planted, they went ahead and replaced it with a cedar and call it the tree of hope with a similarly symbolic ceremony as the hewn stone. Some say it wasnt a cedar, others say it was or closest thing to it... I dunno. Im not an arbhorist (spelling).
Three years after 9/11 John Edwards quoted Isaiah 9:10, again as a rallying cry but not knowing the actual meaning of the verse.
7 years after 9/11 we had the stock market crash (remember the sculpture of the sycamore is on wall st.) where the market crashed 777 points. 777.67 to be exact. Afterwards similar calls of "we will rebuild, we will rebuild" go out from the mouths of the nations leaders including the current potus after his election. The potus also writes on one of the beams used in the new trade center tower, "we will rebuild, we will come back stronger"
Whether any of this means anything, I have my thoughts, but I really dont know. At the very least it would make for a good movie huh?
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What will gonna be when the time comes?
No matter how many Prophets, angels, demons, teachers, bibles, preachers, priests, pastors, messengers, reverends, tidal waves, earthquakes, typhoons, wars, famines,tornadoes is to come people will go business as usual. This is very similar to the Parable of the Richman and Lazarus.
The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus
(John 5:39-47)
19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seethe Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
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these scriptures seem to refer to the catastrophic event on 9/11 this could also be human rational - I mean there are far greater acts of violence recorded all over with far more casualties, we can go way back and find great disaster.
I cannot say for sure that this event was predicted by Isaiah, I am not sure these towers and the devastation they caused would change man one bit in fact after reading the plans for the new edition ........
Nations paid heavy prices for rejecting the Lord in the OT these are shadows of what will take place in us.in us towers are destroyed , in us, twin towers are destroyed in us, the only cornerstone is the capstone, Jesus Christ .
Seems this tower thing is a bit like focusing on externals such as baptism and circumcision ,bloodline etc
So don't be concerned about man made theories the corner stone has been laid, God will build anyway,he is a master at what he does...
They can rebuild 50 more twin Tower buildings that will not bring any change in us because "unless God builds the temple [us] the laborers [us] labor in vain"
PS when i read about all the theories ie structural weakening ,explosions within the buildings that took place and the insurance policies taken out prior to the fall of the TT I am absolutely horrified that the possibility of greed to that degree,actually exists in us.
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Such a good discussion. Alex, I think we are on the right train of thought here... I'm so glad you started this question, we all help each other grow!
My two cents...
The Lord is in the business of saving us.. CURRENTLY... Right now. Because He "IS" right now. Talked about in Ray's "12 Truths to Understanding His Word".
His words are spirit and they are life and they apply RIGHT NOW to every person that He's opened their ears and eyes to see the spirit of His Word.
If we focus on someone else "out there" or put the Word out into the future, on some other people in some other time... Then there is no internal benefit for us RIGHT NOW, and God's precious fiery Word would have lost its meaning within our hearts.
Luke 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
They were asking about "Those guys" over "there" somewhere else. Who happened to have the tower fall on "those other guys". The spiritual truth is that it's not about "THEM" in the future or in the past... (well it is, while they were alive in their age, it concerned them), but right now it's primarily about ME....and YOU who have ears to hear and eyes to see God changing us and burning out the old man within us, and replacing the old man with His (Christ's) mindset.
Isa 30:25 And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.
Those are spiritual words! I'm not saying that they don't have a outward physical application, I'm sure they do. But the Lord is speaking to us spiritually here. We compare spiritual with spiritual. The physical is temporary.
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
It doesn't matter if it's a tower, or a mountain or a beast... whatever HIGH THING that exalts itself against the knowledge of God.... In each person's appointed time when the Lord reveals himself the TOWER FALLS. The beast is displaced, the mountain comes crumbling down. If we keep looking "out there" on "someone else" the Lord's words will have no purifying effect in our lives. The tower represents any high thing that we exalt against the knowledge of God.
The primary purpose of scripture is spiritual, for me, right now. All the symbols and types and shadows are there to show me a spiritual truth within me. He's building His kingdom... within us. Let this mind be in you. God's Word stands for all time for each person's age in which they live, that's how it has a "future tense" and "past tense" application as well.
Truth number 11 from Ray's article "12 Truths to Understanding His Word". "Grace be into you, and peace, from Him which IS and which WAS, and which IS TO COME…" (Rev. 1:4).
That's my two cents. I hope I have Christ's mind in this, what do you guys think?
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Hello Seven,
You bring great reminders. I feel I must clarify my position and intent.
I am in no way, disagreeing with those of you who are of the mindset that the scriptures and prophecies have deeper spiritual implications and that they are written for the admonition of those called and chosen by God.
As paul said; All these things happened unto them as examples for us. I agree completely!
My reason for starting this thread was to see if there was anything of interest out there that related to the NATURAL form of the prophecies.
1 Corinthians 15:46 "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual."
The purpose of this thread was to look into the natural fulfillment of prophecy and what, if anything, the scriptures can tell us about them as they relate to the times.
It very well may be that there isn't much good in us trying to better understand the prophecies as literal events as they relate to our time (not because they don't but because these things are locked up and not for us to understand currently) but I thought it would be worth a shot considering the recent turn of events we are experiencing in our country (USA) and how ray spoke of 9/11. Clearly though, there are certain prophetic events which have not been literally fulfilled and that I pointed too earlier in this thread.
Either way, this discussion has been very edifying and I'm grateful for that! Everyone has contributed in a positive way to my understanding and reminding of important truths.
As I've said: I have began my studies on this matter with the mind of Christ. Something I could not do before and perhaps things will become more clear with time, however long that time may be. It is also possible that things may never be more clear than they are now, that this is the extent of our understanding on these things that we can glimpse from the Word of God.
Whatever the out come may be, I won't lose sleep over it. Ultimately, I trust in the Lord in all things. We are of the same spirit and like mind and therefor, I have peace in all these matters as the rest of you who are of like mind. The main goal is continue striving towards Christ, running the race and putting off the old man. That, by the Grace of God, will never change.
All this... is just an aside note :)
God bless,
Alex
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Well, just to add in my 2 cents, we all know what the bible says that will take place in the last days. "It will take place!'. I think it's just a matter of fact of how God will move men, kings, nations of this world according to His will, just so His will will be done! Tim
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I would also add that much or even most of the Christian church is focused on externals and not internals. They are consumed with various prophetic utterances and flitting from teacher to teacher for more insight. They want to know who the beast is, who the false prophet is and debate who the anti-christ could be. ect, ect, ect. This is simply bread and circuses for those that have at least some spiritual insight.
BUT....they almost never deal with the internal issues that each and everyone of us must face if we are to be an overcomer. As we know, the beast that must be overcome is the beast within. What I have to overcome is my carnal flesh and self. What I have to overcome is who I am at the core of my being. These are the struggles we face and not so much the external ones. Way to much of a beast and anti-christ on the inside of me than to try to figure out where prophecy fits in.
And obviously the overcoming is all of God. And that is why we are instructed to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Emphasis on the fear and trembling because if God doesn't do it [the overcoming] in us then it's not going to get done. No problem with people that want to look into these different issues because I was once consumed with many such things. What I am and how far I have yet to go in my walk takes most of the time that used to be spent on the things that intrigues Christendom. And absolutely no offense to anyone who spends time on these issues, it's just that I've got bigger fish to fry with what God wants me to be.
All that being said we can see the writing on the wall as to where this nation is headed and it's not going to get any better. Because of the fact that the rapture [as taught by Christendom] is a fallacy we know we are in for some hard times in the future. Because of this I lay aside for those hard times and prepare the best that I can for the chaos to come. It's just that I'm not consumed about it. As long as God is still on his throne his will shall be done.
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Hi Alex:
As far as anything in Scripture relating to the NATURAL form of prophecies, I always remember a verse in the book of Daniel. Daniel 12:4 "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased". You could make the case that in the last 100 years, people have been running to and fro (travel), and there also has been a knowledge explosion (technology), unlike any other time in human history. Of course, for us internally, there has been a knowledge explosion (coming out of Mystery Babylon, and slowly understanding the meat of the Word, etc.)
Dean
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So in regard to the natural vs the spiritual or the external vs the internal, Im curious to know what anyone thinks about the parts in scripture that talk about a coming time that will be so bad 'such as has never been before nor will ever be again'... or 'had those days not been shortened no flesh would be saved'... and 'those are the ones who were beheaded for Christ' etc. etc.
Does anyone believe that there will not be a period of tribulation in which Gods judgement will be poured out onto the Earth in the physical, natural, external? But instead that it will all be spiritual and internal and personal for each person?
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Folks,
I have enjoyed the recent exchange of ideas and quotes that have stimulated another thought which should perhaps be on a separate thread.
The Bible teaches that the purpose of resurrecting all who have lived is to teach them righteousness. So what type of environment do we imagine will be required to teach righteousness? People have to have love, food and shelter and then appropriate leadership which Lord Jesus will provide.
Is anything else that we have become accustomed to in this modern world necessary? Seriously, do we need air travel, computers, large religious buildings or multi story office sky scrapers in order to maintain a much reduced but growing population that is living off of the land provided by God's bounty and learning God's plan for the people of the planet and a pure language and most of all righteousness?
I think we will not need factories belching smoke and really anything that pollutes either the environment or our minds. What say you?
Indiana Bob
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Folks,
I have enjoyed the recent exchange of ideas and quotes that have stimulated another thought which should perhaps be on a separate thread.
The Bible teaches that the purpose of resurrecting all who have lived is to teach them righteousness. So what type of environment do we imagine will be required to teach righteousness? People have to have love, food and shelter and then appropriate leadership which Lord Jesus will provide.
Is anything else that we have become accustomed to in this modern world necessary? Seriously, do we need air travel, computers, large religious buildings or multi story office sky scrapers in order to maintain a much reduced but growing population that is living off of the land provided by God's bounty and learning God's plan for the people of the planet and a pure language and most of all righteousness?
I think we will not need factories belching smoke and really anything that pollutes either the environment or our minds. What say you?
Indiana Bob
You're killing me I-Bob.
Sounds like North Korea.....or Bucharest on a Saturday night.
I also suppose no drinking, no dancing, no card playing, no holding hands, no laughter. Definitely no bikinis. :(
A veritable Christian paradise!
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Folks,
I have enjoyed the recent exchange of ideas and quotes that have stimulated another thought which should perhaps be on a separate thread.
The Bible teaches that the purpose of resurrecting all who have lived is to teach them righteousness. So what type of environment do we imagine will be required to teach righteousness? People have to have love, food and shelter and then appropriate leadership which Lord Jesus will provide.
Is anything else that we have become accustomed to in this modern world necessary? Seriously, do we need air travel, computers, large religious buildings or multi story office sky scrapers in order to maintain a much reduced but growing population that is living off of the land provided by God's bounty and learning God's plan for the people of the planet and a pure language and most of all righteousness?
I think we will not need factories belching smoke and really anything that pollutes either the environment or our minds. What say you?
Indiana Bob
God is called The Creator and God is making man in "Our Image." God is "reproducing Himself" as Ray likes to say.
I don't know what awaits us but I'm sure we'll be productive. This un-comprehensibly large universe will be put to use.
Just laying around Heaven with nothing to do would be Hell.
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Hi Bob,
Don't be so quick to throw out all the modern conveniences, yet... yes these things are misused and in many ways to promote wrong doing now, but in the next age things will be a whole other story. All these things that are being developed is according to God will/plan and the rule of Christ would assure that they would be put to proper use. Since the world will still be physical when Christ rules it, maybe most of these technological advances would have a practical use for those serving physically... I think they would appreciate the comforts and advancements that we take for granted. God may be bringing about advancements now that could mainly be for its good use in the next age?
Hi largeli,
If you look at the passage in Matt 24 as Jesus giving His disciples a warning of what is to come to them in their lifetime as well as what would come at the end of the age, you get a better understanding of it. Taking one verse out is hard/impossible to gain an understanding of it as there is a couple of different things spoken of.
Jesus first had brought up the destruction of the temple and the disciples ask Him a couple of questions and He gave them answer in sequential order of what they ask. First they ask for Him to "tell us, when will these things be," the thing He had just spoke of, the destruction of the temple. Then they ask Him another question, what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" Two distinct questions... maybe they didn't even realize it, thinking the end of the age was when the temple/Jerusalem would be destroyed, but that's the way I see Jesus answering with the two separate events. That to me is how to better understand what is being said, and not mixing the whole passage to be speaking of one thing, as the disciple thought it would be.
mercy, peace and love
Kat