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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Lupac on February 02, 2010, 05:46:42 PM
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Hey, I was comparing G684 and G622. apōleia and apollumi.
G684
ἀπώλεια
apōleia
ap-o'-li-a
From a presumed derivative of G622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal): - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious ways, waste.
G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
Now, here's my question. Jesus said He came to save that which was lost. (apollumi) What about apōleia? Are they almost the same word? It seems that apōleia comes from apollumi. Which one is the stronger word? Jesus came to save both, correct? Also can anyone explain this verse to me?
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition (apōleia) of ungodly men.
Thank you.
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Good that you are paying attention to the words Lupac! :)
Now, here's my question. Jesus said He came to save that which was lost. (apollumi) What about apōleia? Are they almost the same word? It seems that apōleia comes from apollumi. Which one is the stronger word? Jesus came to save both, correct? Also can anyone explain this verse to me?
1Ti 1:15 Faithful is the Word and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
Sinners are the many who are lost right? The few chosen are in judgement on the House of God now.
Quote from LOF part 3
Peter, who was given many keys to the kingdom, introduces this judgment to us:
"Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. For the TIME IS COME that JUDGMENT MUST BEGIN AT THE HOUSE OF GOD..." (I Pet. 4:16-17).
2Th 2:3 Let not anyone deceive you by any means. For that Day shall not come unless there first comes a falling away, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition,
Sons of perdition are the many called not the few chosen. The many called shall be disciplined, set straight through the suffering of LOSS of all their false security both physical and spiritual.
Consider this:
1Co 3:15 If any one's work is burnt up, he will suffer the LOSS of it; yet he will himself be rescued, but only, as it were, by passing through the fire. (WNT)
This is the kind of LOSS that will be suffered.
G2210
ζημιόω
zēmioō
Total KJV Occurrences: 10
lose, 2
Mat_16:26, Mar_8:36
loss, 2
1Co_3:15, Phi_3:8
away, 1
Luk_9:25
cast, 1
Luk_9:25 (2)
damage, 1
2Co_7:9
receive, 1
2Co_7:9
suffer, 1
1Co_3:15
suffered, 1
Phi_3:8
Arc
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Hi Lupac,
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition (apōleia) of ungodly men.
Many other translations have that word "perdition" as "destruction."
2Pe 3:7 While, the heavens and the earth that now are, by the same word, have been stored with fire, being kept unto the day of judgment and destruction (G684 apoleia) of the ungodly men. (Rotherham)
Here are the ways the King James uses the word apoleia.
G684 apōleia; from G622; destruction, loss: - destruction (13), destructive (1), perdition (1), perish (1), waste (1), wasted (1).
You will notice that is word 'apoleia is derived from G622 - apollumi. Here is how it is used in the King James.
G622 apollumi; to destroy, destroy utterly: - bring (1), destroy (17), destroyed (9), dying (1), end (1), killed (1), lose (10), loses (7), lost (14), much (1), passed away (1), perish (14), perishable (1), perished (4), perishes (1), perishing (6), put to death (1), ruined (3).
So you can see they are closely related words and yes Jesus came to save all and none will be left out.
Mat 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction (G684 apoleia), and there are many who go in by it.
Here are a few emails to explain what this "destruction" means.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1884.0.html -------------
"Destruction" has absolutely nothing to do with someone not being saved. In fact, "destruction" is an absolute PRE-REQUISITE to being saved. Jesus came SPECIFICALLY for the purpose of saving those who are "destroyed."
The words: "destruction," "perish" and "lost" all come from the very same ONE Greek word: "apollumi."
In Matt. 10:28 where Jesus says to "fear Him Who is able to DESTROY both soul and body..." the word for destroy is "apollumi."
In Matt. 18:24 where Jesus says that His Father is not will any any of these little ones should PERISH..." the word for perish is "apollumi."
In Matt. 15:24 where Jesus says that He was send to the LOST sheep of the house of Israel only" the word for lost is "apollumi."
Destruction, perish, and lost, all come from the same one Greek word "apollumi."
Now then, with that said, what did Jesus say concerning all those who are "apollumi?" Here is what He said: "For the Son of man is come to SAVE that which is APOLLUMI [lost]" (Matt. 18:11).
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,435.0.html ------
What we must understand is that destruction, perishing, and being lost are not the final destiny of anyone, but rather the proper position to be in, in order to be SAVED. Jesus came to SAVE those that are lost. The word translated lost is also translated perish and destroy.
EVERYONE is destined to be lost, destroyed or perished in this lifetime except for the chosen elect who will be resurrected at Christ's presence and reign with Him. The broad way always leads to destruction. None those destined for destruction are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.
That is the very reason why they must go through the lake of fire.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4530.0.html ------
It is wrong to assume that death ends all possibility of being saved for the wicked. That is unscriptural heresy. Judgment will bring about the largest salvation of humanity in the history of the world. In Isaiah 57:1 we learn that, "THE RIGHTEOUS PERISH...." So is that the final destination of "the RIGHTEOUS? I think not.
The broad way leads to DESTRUCTION. The word "destruction" is derived from the Greek word "apollumi" which means to DESTROY, LOSE, PERISH. And Jesus plainly (I say plainly to all those who have an ear to hear) told us that His purpose in coming for His Father (I John 4:14) is stated: "For the Son of Man is come to SAVE THAT WHICH IS LOST [Gk: 'appolumi'] (Matt. 18:11). There it is. Jesus came to save all those who are 'appolumi,' which is most of humanity. Of course most Christians believe that He either LIED, or that He is INCAPABLE, or worse, DOESN'T WANT to save those who are 'appolumi'--LOST.
Ya know, we could put those two Scritures closer together and then it would make perfect sense, but OH how Christian zealots hate to put Scriptures together. They call it "taking Scripture out of CONTEXT). But as I really don't care what unscriptural Christians think, here goes:
"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to DESTRUCTION [but]...the Son of Man is come TO SAVE that which is LOST [by foolishly going in at the broad gate and are now, appolumi" (Matt. 7:13 & 18:11). There are literally hundreds more Scriptures which prove this teaching of the salvation of all.
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Hope this is helpful.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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That is an excellent study Lupac. One of the first word studies I did after finding BT was searching out all the Scriptures the church uses to sent us to hell. Destruction is a common word in those verses so I had to find out what it really meant.
I am looking for my notes and if I find them ::) I'll email them to you.
Lin
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You found them yet? From what I've studied, Paul uses both words almost interchangeably.
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Not yet! I'll keep looking! ::) :-\
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When you find them Linny please send them to me as well. My email address is reapwithme@gmail.com
Thanks ;)
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I suggest you go to e-sword. Click on Bible and it will open another page where you can click on search. The bar that opens allows for any word or phrase you like to search for. When you do that, the list of places that the word appears will show up. For destruction, there are 40 places but note, not all have the same strongs reference number. That search can take you deeper into the meaning God has for the word you are studying.
Enjoy!
Arc
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Okay, here's what I was talking about, this is every time G684 appears in the gospels:
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destructionG684, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 26:8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this wasteG684?
Mar 14:4 And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this wasteG684 of the ointment made?
Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perditionG684; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
It's used a total of 19 times in the Scriptures. The reason I was asking is, it's a different word than apollumi. I quoted that verse in 2 Peter because it seems to say that the sons of perdition will be destroyed. I guess what I was saying is, there's no verse using the word apōleia that says Jesus will save them, only apollumi. But they are the same word, aren't they?
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Okay, here's what I was talking about, this is every time G684 appears in the gospels:
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destructionG684, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 26:8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this wasteG684?
Mar 14:4 And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this wasteG684 of the ointment made?
Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perditionG684; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
It's used a total of 19 times in the Scriptures. The reason I was asking is, it's a different word than apollumi. I quoted that verse in 2 Peter because it seems to say that the sons of perdition will be destroyed. I guess what I was saying is, there's no verse using the word apōleia that says Jesus will save them, only apollumi. But they are the same word, aren't they?
Lupac,
Many times, the words 'destroyed' or 'destruction' refer to one's spiritual state not one's future destiny. That's what it means when Christ says that His words are spiritual and what it means to 'speak in parables'. These words are used, not in their literal sense, but to portray a spiritual condition.
Marques
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refer to one's spiritual state not one's future destiny
;D
Bulls eye!
Well expounded Marques!
Arc
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Okay, here's what I was talking about, this is every time G684 appears in the gospels:
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destructionG684, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 26:8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this wasteG684?
Mar 14:4 And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this wasteG684 of the ointment made?
Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perditionG684; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
It's used a total of 19 times in the Scriptures. The reason I was asking is, it's a different word than apollumi. I quoted that verse in 2 Peter because it seems to say that the sons of perdition will be destroyed. I guess what I was saying is, there's no verse using the word apōleia that says Jesus will save them, only apollumi. But they are the same word, aren't they?
Lupac,
Many times, the words 'destroyed' or 'destruction' refer to one's spiritual state not one's future destiny. That's what it means when Christ says that His words are spiritual and what it means to 'speak in parables'. These words are used, not in their literal sense, but to portray a spiritual condition.
Marques
I see. What about the apostles? I assume they're words are spirit too, right? I was asking, because Paul says that evil men's END is their destruction:
Php 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
But God destroys their carnal nature, right? I wish I understood better...
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You are understanding just fine Lupac. God will destroy carnality as tares are to be burnt and straw can not survive fire.
Remember what Kat posted in your thread "I don't know what to believe". It applies to your question here. The entire Bible is one giant parable. :)
This is what Kat posted:
http://bible-truths.com/lake5.html ----------
Now then, is there a simple way that we can at least represent all metaphors in an intelligent, understandable statement? I think so. I have come up with a statement that seems to represent ALL metaphors correctly and honestly. Here is how it works: Take ANY metaphor and apply this principle to it:
A. "The WORDS that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT." Or condensed: [My] Words ARE Spirit.
Next, add the words "like" and "in certain ways," and state the metaphor like this:
B. "The WORDS that I speak unto you, they are [like] SPIRIT [in certain ways].
Arc
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I see. What about the apostles? I assume they're words are spirit too, right? I was asking, because Paul says that evil men's END is their destruction:
Php 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
But God destroys their carnal nature, right? I wish I understood better...
The apostles spoke in parables as well...whether likening believers to 'buildings, temples, vessels, etc.'
Yes Paul speaks of the wicked and unbelieving leading to an end of destruction...again, this is figure of speech. This is no different than what Jesus said about the many who go the broad way of destruction. As a matter of fact, I'm sure this is where Paul got this reference from...either directly from Christ or through another apostle.
Marques