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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: PKnowler on January 30, 2007, 02:52:20 AM

Title: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: PKnowler on January 30, 2007, 02:52:20 AM

BE CAREFUL OF WHAT YOU TEACH FOR YOU WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: YellowStone on January 30, 2007, 07:22:45 AM

PKnowler wrote:
BE CAREFUL OF WHAT YOU TEACH FOR YOU WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

---

I believe what Paula is saying here reflects totally on the following words of Christ our Savior.

Mar 12:30
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.

Mar 12:31
And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

What more is there? Please look deep inside your hearts before you answer.

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Pro 17:27 He that hath knowledge spareth his words: [and] a man of understanding is of an excellent spirit.

Pro 17:28 Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: [and] he that shutteth his lips [is esteemed] a man of understanding.

Love to all,
Darren

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: rrammfcitktturjsp on January 30, 2007, 08:53:04 AM

To All,

 NOTE:  For clarification becuase of a pm that I received I need to make it clear to all who this post was directed it to.  I directed it to Paula.  It was not directed to anyone else that posted in this thread.

  Paula Did NOT orginally write that quote.  Hebrewroots98 wrote that in a thread that had been locked.  Please if you are going to quote someone please give proper credit to the person you are quoting rather than passing it off as your quote.  I am sry for posting this, but that is a huge pet peeve of mine, and is a huge one that should be adhered to in forums.

 
  I am just writing this to keep us all accountable.  I know that it is easy to quote without giving proper credit.  If you do not want to credit someone, then please by all means include their statement in QUOTATION marks or something like that.  Now if it is something obvious that is not yours, then that does go without understanding.
 
  I know when I post things that are not mine, I usually center the text and put it in red. 

  I think by quoting things that others are saying in the forum is a great thing, but to do it without giving them credit or even acknowledging that their ideas were theirs and not yours smacks of disrespect and dishonesty.

  Thanks.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: brothertoall on January 30, 2007, 09:27:56 AM

Anne that is correct. I will have to agree with you on that one. I will also have to say that who are we to judge another. I did not see where anyone is teaching anything here.

 it amazes me sometimes that certian subjects touch a nerve with some and I will have to admit I have had that happen to me so I speak at me first.

 When someone comes here seeking the input of others and those others give an opinion, why is that some of those opinions are looked at as being trying to teach?

 Paula I do not understand why you would just quote that section of a previous post in another thread and point a finger at some here.

 This scripture came to mind and I speak to ME first:

Luke 6:40-42

 40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.  

 41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?  

 42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.


 I myself have learned many things here but let us not forget that it is Christ and His Spirit that will guide and teach us in all things.

 I still have a long way to go myself and the main thing I want to learn and do is the patience we must have for one another and this one thing that is most important is to LOVE one another.

 Christ is the head and we are but parts of that body. I am not the head,Ray is not the head,Joe is not the head and the list goes on. We can do nothing without HIM.My part of this body is a mere little toe on the right foot.

bobby


 

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: rrammfcitktturjsp on January 30, 2007, 09:40:07 AM

Bobby,

  I liked how you exhorted us all to love one another.  I know the marraige question thread has been locked and do not know the reason why.  I also notice that Paula is not a guest, which means she has unjoined the forum.  I pray that that thread did not in any way offend her.

  I wish to go on in the similar vein of Bobby's thread.  When a question is posted and things of that nature here, all of us that I can see, are interested and concerned about eachother.  We give our advice freely and our love as well.  What shocks me is that some see that love as being judgemental.  Guys and gals there is an awesome feature here in this group and it is called the pm button.  If you are offended by someone's elses post, DO NOT leave the forum without giving them a fair chance of explaining themselves.  Please remember that most if not all post here in a loving manner and that we are family.  At times we will quarrel and get peeved off, but in the end, we know we love eachother.  Paula, I would exhort you to pray about some things and get in touch with the person or persons that you think have offended you.  Please remember that we are all on a journey, and that no one is where they need to be.  Please also remember that we are human, and in being so that we can become emotionally involved very strongly when something sets us off.  Please also remember that this forum is family and loves you very much.

  Bobby, thanks for posting this reply.  And thanks for ending it with the exhortation.  I should have ended mine in that similar vein but was not thinking of it.

  Guys and gals, I love all of you.  Take care.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: brothertoall on January 30, 2007, 10:15:43 AM

Thank you Anne and I too noticed that Paula is now a quest and Paula if you are veiwing this thread please oh please forgive me if I said something to make you leave.

 I have an idea here and think maybe this may help to get everyone on the right track.

 let each one of define what love is concerning a relationship between a man and a women. I will start first and I hope that you all will take part in this also.


  The love to my best friend,mate and now my wife. My love for my wife started as a very close friendship and she was and is still my best friend. This happened long before marriage was even thought about. It was different than my love for my other friends,male and female.

 There was no sex involved in this relationship for a short time(about a year). But that did not matter because I was very much in love with her.We decided to move in together after high school and we shared everything. It took several years for that love for one another to be refined and we had many hardships and when my son was concieved we then got married legally according to the world but we were already married in the eyes of God long before we actually married. There were very tough times ahead and God saw fit that we would make it. I have grown up and my wife has also and I can now look back and honestly say that she was there for me and I for her. Through everything we both have been through it was that love we had and still have for each other that kept us going and I thank God for bringing her my way over 30 years ago. I did not need that marriage lisence or that gold band on my finger to prove that I loved her or that she loved me. The marriage was just part of the process and if I had to do it all over again I would not have to think twice about it. I would do it again in a New York minute.

 My wife IS my best friend,my soul mate and I want no other to spend the rest of my life with even through the good and the bad.

bobby

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: Sorin on January 30, 2007, 10:27:23 AM

I find the title of this thread to be highly offensive.




. in·fi·del·i·ties

   1.
         1. Unfaithfulness to a sexual partner, especially a spouse.
         2. An act of sexual unfaithfulness.
   2. Lack of fidelity or loyalty.
   3. Lack of religious belief.



That is a total lie! No one here is 'reveling in infidelity' Bradigans is faithful to his spouse therefore he is not 'reveling in infidelity'.  The only thing even remotely close to 'reveling' would be that he was delighted to find a few that didn't judge him and say he is living in 'infidelity/sin'.

I can however understand why Paula got so upset, why it's a 'touchy' subject........her daughters and all that. But no one here was 'reveling in infidelity' or even living in or defending infidelity.

I feel bad that I/we offended her and she decided to leave, but it was never my intent to offend anyone. So I hope she will decide to come back.

Sorin

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: Kat on January 30, 2007, 10:39:00 AM

1Co 4:3  But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself.
v. 4  I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me.
v. 5  Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.

This scripture from Paul seems fitting, tho I am not comparing myself to Paul, not at all.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: brothertoall on January 30, 2007, 10:39:39 AM

Sorin I will have to admit I found that rather offensive myself but I thought it best to just let it go.

God knows each of our hearts and actions and in my opinion all that matters is what God knows about me and what He will do to take care of what ever is unpleasing to Him.

bobby

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: rrammfcitktturjsp on January 30, 2007, 10:56:00 AM

Bobby,

  Okay here goes my definition of love.

  Love is glancing at me and before I can say a word apologizing and going to put the toilet seat down.
  Love is when he walks through the door and he gives me that hug and kiss and asks how my day went.
  Love is when he gets up in the middle of the night when he is dog tired and takes care of the baby.
  Love is when he calls me throughout the day to make sure that I am all right.
  Love is admitting that our son looks like me, even tough I think he looks like him.
  Love is him letting my cry on his shoulder when I need too.
  Love is coodling with him on a cold wintery Texas night, of which we are having an abundance of.
  Love is accepting me for who I am.
  Love is when he says he forgives me, he really does not hold it against me.
  Love is that late night back rub to help me to sleep.
  Love is our marraige.

  When we first met online his yahoo name was lonely in texas.  Through the next few years to 2003, I knew I was falling for him.  There came a point in time where he did say that he had barely any food in the house.  Keep in mind that this was the weekend of Texas Tech vs. Texas A&M which is the huge game of the year and that it was home that year.  I knew that I loved him deeply when I said, come to TTU and get something to eat.  I was willing to sacrifice that game for him.  To date, there are only 2 individuals that I would sacrifice that particular game for my husband and my son.  When we met in person, the marriage proposal was on the table the second night. 

  I will never forget how he proposed to me.  And that was was willing to wait for a long engagement.

  Love is willing to wait.
  Love is patient, Love is kind,  Well you know the rest.

  I think that the best definition of love is found in 1st Corinthians.

  I am so glad that I am with my husband.  I am glad that we waited for a time to get married and was not pressured into it.  I can not imagine rushing off to get married to this day.  Things happen for a reason and they happen in their own times.
 
  I do know that God blessed us on our marriage to one another, by giving us our wonderful son.  For the date of conceptioin was on October 11, 2005 our wedding day.  It is hard to believe that we have been married for over a year now.  It seems like all of our lives we have known each other.

  Love is having and willing to make sacrifices.

  My husband works in a job that he knows he does not want to be stuck in.  He has made so many sacrifices so that I and our son might be taken care of.  He has places a lot of his dreams on the back burner, so that we could be happy.  Right now, we are trying to mesh in both of our dreams.

  Love is not getting into my chocolate stash.
  Love is saying that when one inept person like me cooks in the kitchen has done well in cooking a meal.
 

  There's so much that can be said on this topic, and the more I write, the more that I am missing him.  I cannot believe that it is only 8 am and that I have 6 more hours without him.  But I know that in absence, I will fully appreciate it when he is home.

  You all have a great day.  This post has made me count my blessings.  I could write all morning and all day for that matter.

  To my dearest best friend, my soul-mate, the father of our son, my dearest husband, and the <sorry ladies if you think you got the best man out there> best man in the whole wide world, I love you.  I can hardly wait until you get home, so that I can share this post.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: brothertoall on January 30, 2007, 11:03:53 AM

Anne that was great.

bobby

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: Craig on January 30, 2007, 11:24:44 AM

This is a bud that just doesn't what to be nipped.

We locked it once and it appeared in 2-3 other threads.  I would like to reemphasize what Kat stated:

Quote

I do want to say there is not a single scripture to back up what is continued to be discussed here.
We shoiud be together and standing on what is taught in the scripture.
I would ask that if anyone wants to continue to discuss this please use scripture to back up your stance on this or any subject.

On the original thread a question was asked opinions given and toward the end a few seasoned members gave the scriptural authority for their opinions.  That didn't seem to matter as I still see the; I feel, I think, I, I, I emotional responses.

The first thread was not locked by me but I agree 100 percent that it was locked because "people were talking/writing over other responses without addressing the very points being made, once a thread gets to that place emotions over ride reason and it spirals downhill."

Now I suggest we agree to disagree here and drop this subject, when a thread starts down the emotional track, I for one do not trust anyones, opinions or reasoning, most of all my own.

Craig

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: brothertoall on January 30, 2007, 11:29:05 AM

maybe we could get someone here to explain this verse to all of us without locking this thread.

1 Corinthians 7:36


36 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: rrammfcitktturjsp on January 30, 2007, 11:29:25 AM

Craig,

  I think it is best that we agree to disagree.  I would rather see topics locked than for us to become further divided.  Thanks to Kat and Craig for reminding us of what should be our focus, and that should the truth.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: longhorn on January 30, 2007, 11:39:13 AM

I had a wife once, but she got smart and kicked my butt to the curb, she seemed to enjoy it also. 

Longhorn

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: hillsbororiver on January 30, 2007, 11:45:30 AM

Quote from: brothertoall on January 30, 2007, 11:29:05 AM

maybe we could get someone here to explain this verse to all of us without locking this thread.

1 Corinthians 7:36


36 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.

Hi Bobby,

Let's look at a few translations of this verse and the verses that surround it;

1 Corinthians 7 (The Message)


32-35I want you to live as free of complications as possible. When you're unmarried, you're free to concentrate on simply pleasing the Master. Marriage involves you in all the nuts and bolts of domestic life and in wanting to please your spouse, leading to so many more demands on your attention. The time and energy that married people spend on caring for and nurturing each other, the unmarried can spend in becoming whole and holy instruments of God. I'm trying to be helpful and make it as easy as possible for you, not make things harder. All I want is for you to be able to develop a way of life in which you can spend plenty of time together with the Master without a lot of distractions.

 36-38If a man has a woman friend to whom he is loyal but never intended to marry, having decided to serve God as a "single," and then changes his mind, deciding he should marry her, he should go ahead and marry. It's no sin; it's not even a "step down" from celibacy, as some say. On the other hand, if a man is comfortable in his decision for a single life in service to God and it's entirely his own conviction and not imposed on him by others, he ought to stick with it. Marriage is spiritually and morally right and not inferior to singleness in any way, although as I indicated earlier, because of the times we live in, I do have pastoral reasons for encouraging singleness.

 39-40A wife must stay with her husband as long as he lives. If he dies, she is free to marry anyone she chooses. She will, of course, want to marry a believer and have the blessing of the Master. By now you know that I think she'll be better off staying single. The Master, in my opinion, thinks so, too.

1 Corinthians 7 (Amplified Bible)

32My desire is to have you free from all anxiety and distressing care. The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord--how he may please the Lord;

33But the married man is anxious about worldly matters--how he may please his wife--

34And he is drawn in diverging directions [his interests are divided and he is distracted from his devotion to God]. And the unmarried woman or girl is concerned and anxious about the matters of the Lord, how to be wholly separated and set apart in body and spirit; but the married woman has her cares [centered] in earthly affairs--how she may please her husband.

35Now I say this for your own welfare and profit, not to put [a halter of] restraint upon you, but to promote what is seemly and in good order and to secure your undistracted and undivided devotion to the Lord.

36But if any man thinks that he is not acting properly toward and in regard to his virgin [that he is preparing disgrace for her or incurring reproach], in case she is passing the bloom of her youth and if there is need for it, let him do what to him seems right; he does not sin; let them marry.

37But whoever is firmly established in his heart [strong in mind and purpose], not being forced by necessity but having control over his own will and desire, and has resolved this in his heart to keep his own virginity, he is doing well.

38So also then, he [the father] who gives his virgin (his daughter) in marriage does well, and he [the father] who does not give [her] in marriage does better.


39A wife is bound to her husband by law as long as he lives. If the husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she will, only [provided that he too is] in the Lord.

40But in my opinion [a widow] is happier (more blessed and [f]to be envied) if she does not remarry. And also I think I have the Spirit of God

1 Corinthians 7 (New Living Translation)

32 I want you to be free from the concerns of this life. An unmarried man can spend his time doing the Lord’s work and thinking how to please him. 33 But a married man has to think about his earthly responsibilities and how to please his wife. 34 His interests are divided. In the same way, a woman who is no longer married or has never been married can be devoted to the Lord and holy in body and in spirit. But a married woman has to think about her earthly responsibilities and how to please her husband. 35 I am saying this for your benefit, not to place restrictions on you. I want you to do whatever will help you serve the Lord best, with as few distractions as possible.

 36 But if a man thinks that he’s treating his fiancée improperly and will inevitably give in to his passion, let him marry her as he wishes. It is not a sin. 37 But if he has decided firmly not to marry and there is no urgency and he can control his passion, he does well not to marry. 38 So the person who marries his fiancée does well, and the person who doesn’t marry does even better.

 39 A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. If her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but only if he loves the Lord.[j] 40 But in my opinion it would be better for her to stay single, and I think I am giving you counsel from God’s Spirit when I say this.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: brothertoall on January 30, 2007, 11:50:19 AM

Thank you Joe. Now my next question and hopefully someone knows their history. When did the ritual of marriage start. You know like who was the first to start a ceremony,the ring ect....

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: rrammfcitktturjsp on January 30, 2007, 11:53:48 AM

Joe,

  That was indeed helpful. 


  Sincerely,


 

  Anne C. McGuire 

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: rrammfcitktturjsp on January 30, 2007, 12:14:01 PM

Joe,

  I only promoted it becuase it did addresses the actual customs that are found in the marriage ritual.

 Not becuase I agree with the Messianic way of thinking.  I am not Messianic.  I am one who seeks after the truth. I am not meaning to cause division.  I have not seen any marriage rituals mentioned in the bible.  So that clued me into the fact that they were started after the bible had been written.  If I am wrong on this, please show me my error and I will change.  I have searced for marriage stuff in the bible and can only find instances where either wives are taken by men or given in marraige to men.  I also have found that once when people became betrothed, they then consummated the marraige.  Once this took place it become valid in God's eyes.  I am not really sure where to look.
 

  I am really confused right now and have a question to ask?  If something is not specifically discussed or expounded or addressed in the bible what should we do?  In my case, I usually look to other sources and see if they agree in spirit of what the bible is saying.  Please understand that by my posting the book I am not promoting Messianic way of thinking.  I just do not know how to answer Bobby's questioin in a relevant way without using sources outside the bible, as I have found no marriage rituals in the bible. 

 Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: brothertoall on January 30, 2007, 12:16:46 PM

I thought this was interesting!!!!!




How To Know if Your Common Law Marriage Is Recognized
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Common law marriage is not as common as many people believe. Living together does not mean you have a common law marriage. There are strict requirements that have to be met for common law marriages to be considered valid.
Additionally, only a few states in the United States recognize common law marriages.


Difficulty: Easy
Time Required: varies
Here's How:
Ascertain if the state/country you are living in recognizes common law marriages. Only a few states plus the District of Columbia recognize common law marriages.
Currently, common law marriages are recognized by: Alabama, Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Montana, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, Utah and Washington, D.C.

Generally, there are four requirements for a valid common law marriage. Just living together isn't enough to validate a common law marriage.

Requirement One: You must live together.

Requirement Two: You must present yourselves to others as a married couple. Some ways of doing this are by using the same last name, referring to one another as husband or wife, and filing a joint tax return.


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Requirement Three: Although the time frame is not defined, you have to be together for a significant period of time.

Requirement Four: You must intend to be married.

In the U.S., every state is Constitutionally required to recognize as valid a common law marriage that was recognized in another state.

Tips:
These states have restrictions and only recognize common law marriages performed/created by a certain date:
Georgia, January 1, 1997

Idaho, January 1, 1996

Ohio, October 10, 1991

Oklahoma, November 1, 1998. Whether the Oklahoma law on this will be upheld is still unknown
More on Oklahoma Common Law Marriage.

Pennsylvania, January 1, 2005.

New Hampshire only recognizes commonlaw marriages for probate purposes.

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: jennie on January 30, 2007, 12:48:43 PM

Longhorn , you are so funny! Agreeing to disagree is sometimes a good thing. Anne , you hang in there....I felt no offense and Bobby , my dear friend, you continually amaze me with your knowledge and study. This is a good place. We are brothers and sisters here. I love my brother to pieces but sometimes I just wanted to pop him one "up side " the head. Then I got in trouble with my Mama! That didn't change the love I have for my brother. sometimes I still want to "pop him up side the head" but there is nothing I wouldn't do for him. Likewise for all of ya'll. Sometimes we disagree but for me, that doesn't change the love. Much love to all, Jennie

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: hillsbororiver on January 30, 2007, 01:02:56 PM

 Hello Anne & Bobby,

The ceremony, the ring and all that is not important at all it is the public proclaimation and record of this proclaimation in regard to the intent for a man and a woman to love and cherish each other for the rest of their natural lives. The state requires a marriage certificate in the case of dividing property or inheritence to the children, of course a will can cover these things, social security benefits and other things are affected by marriage and even the length of the marriage.

Jesus speaking to the woman at the well differentiated between having a husband (5 previously) and living with a man. I noticed no reponse from any defenders of "living together."

1 Corinthians 7 appears to be clear on marriage being a bit more than a man and a woman living together and that relations before marriage is sinful, look I have been guilty of this as well, I am not setting myself up as better or holier than thou.

I admit I am a little disapointed that some of us gave advice that is not conducive to the health and well being of the families this might affect, remember as Paul stated that marriage is an earthly thing, well empirical (earthly) evidence is that familes with married spouses are more prosperous, healthier and less likely prone to violence or break up. Of course there are exceptions but the evidence is overwhelming, if anyone wants links to government, private or University studies that show the stats let me know privately and I will be happy to provide them.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe  

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: rrammfcitktturjsp on January 30, 2007, 01:10:05 PM

To All,

  Since reading these topics and threads I have done some soul searching and have a confession to make to you all.

  I have been getting rather emotionally involved in some of these threads and topics, and feel that maybe my emotion may have been blinding me.  For this I am sorry.

  Joe -

"The ceremony, the ring and all that is not important at all it is the public proclaimation and record of this proclaimation in regard to the intent for a man and a woman to love and cherish each other for the rest of their natural lives."

[/color]

  As I was reading this part of your post a Scripture came up to me and again I am sorry I cannot find where it is in the bible, but it says that God looks at the heart and not at outward appearances. 

  Again, I needed to refocu on the important stuff, and that is the inward stuff, the spiritual stuff, and not the legalistc traditions or stuff of man.

To the Forum,

   I have fallen short of the pervious paraphrased Scripture.  I am been looking at the outward appearances and got caught up in the paper and the ring ect.  I was not looking at the spiritual side or principle of the matter.  For this I am sorry.  Hopefully I will not have to apologize for a long time.   ;D  Writing I am sorry sure is hard to do for me.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: hillsbororiver on January 30, 2007, 03:04:33 PM

Quote from: hillsbororiver on January 30, 2007, 01:02:56 PM

Jesus speaking to the woman at the well differentiated between having a husband (5 previously) and living with a man. I noticed no reponse from any defenders of "living together." (John 4:16-18)

1 Corinthians 7 appears to be clear on marriage being a bit more than a man and a woman living together and that relations before marriage is sinful, look I have been guilty of this as well, I am not setting myself up as better or holier than thou.

No comments?




Gen 34:8  And Hamor communed with them, saying, The soul of my son Shechem longeth for your daughter: I pray you give her him to wife.

Who was the first to give His daughter to be a man's wife?

Gen 3:12  And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree and I did eat.

Gave to Adam for what purpose?

Gen 3:20  And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.



Jesus did not seem to discount marriage or even the ceremony, ritual or feast when He walked the earth.


John 2 (King James Version)


 1And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:

 2And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.

 3And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

 4Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

 5His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.

 6And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.

 7Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.

 8And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.

 9When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,

 10And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

 11This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.


 His Peace and Wisdom to you,

 Joe

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on January 30, 2007, 03:26:07 PM

When you are invited by anyone to a MARRIAGE FEAST, do not recline on the chief seat in the place of honor, lest a more distinguished person than you has been invited. Luke 14 : 8 

And be like men who are waiting for their master to return home from the MARRIAGE FEAST, so that when he returns from the WEDDING and comes and knocks, they may open to him immediately. Luke 12 : 36

And those servants went out on the crossroads and got together as many as they found, both bad and good, so the room in which the  WEDDING FEAST WAS HELD was filled with guests. But when the king came in to view the guests, he looked intently at a man there who had on NO WEDDING GARMENT. And he said, Friend, how did you come in here without putting on the appropriate WEDDING GARMENT?  Matt 22 : 10,11,12

On the third day there was a WEDDING at Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2. Jesus also was invited with His disciples to THE WEDDING.John 2 : 1,2

Which garment do we wear, the wedding garment or the living together one.

There is going to be a banquet and Christ will be married to His Bride. Which party will we be arriving with.... Oprah and Stedman or the failthfull of Christ?

Peace to you

Arcturus. :)

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: gmik on January 30, 2007, 11:35:03 PM

Just to comment Joe on the scripture, I read the account in John 4-16 and other than stating that she had 5 husbands Jesus didn't say anything else about it.  She went back and told people about Him,  they came to see Jesus and then He left.  He didn't do anything else w/ her.  Didn't even say Go and sin no more. Then Jesus left there.  Did she go back to the man she was living with?  Was he one of the people that came to see Jesus? Not much detail about those kinds of things.
What I find in this passage as sad is that the woman told the villagers come see a Man who told me ALL that I ever did.   just summed up her life, having5 husbands.  nothing else.  I see pathos in that, I don't know why.

I am not commenting on the rest of these threads.

gena :)

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: Kirk on January 30, 2007, 11:56:32 PM

Are you still looking for a Biblical pattern for marriage or is that not the goal?

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: DWIGHT on January 31, 2007, 12:54:55 AM

Hi Kirk,

I just noticed that was your first post!  Welcome in His name; we're happy to have you here and yes anything biblical that you have, please share it with us.

In Him,

Dwight

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: Joey Porter on January 31, 2007, 01:17:01 AM

This is not an issue that I've spent a whole lot of time studying, but I've gotten a little restless in my spirit with some of what's been going on so I figured I'd chime in.

As I said, I don't have a lot of experience at seeking out the truth on this, and I don't have a set opinion either way.  But one thing I want to remind everyone of:  

I've heard Ray say a few times that "the bible doesn't always mean what it says, but it always means what it means."  I've seen people say that we must back up our beliefs on this issue with scripture.  That certainly is true, but it's never really as simple as that. We should always strive to seek out the spirit of the scripture, as opposed to merely just the printed letter.  After all, every major Christian denomination in the world backs up their doctrines with scripture.  So just because the scriptures speak of marriage feasts and so forth doesn't necessarily mean that the scriptures endorse an actual  wedding ceremony, with an exchange of vows, conducted by a "minister'' or "priest.''

Once again, I'm not arguing for or against either side of this "debate," but I do want to say that the answer to this may not be as "cut and dry" as it may seem.

First I want to bring up the issue of endorsing a wedding ceremony as conducted by someone who claims authority in the religious church system.  I assume that all of us who are posting here, do so because we've come to see many great errors in the Christian religious system, and we either have "come out of her" or are in the process of coming out.  So would it be pleasing to God for us go "back into her" for the sole purpose of being proclaimed by that person whom we know is in error, to be proclaimed "husband and wife?"  I don't have an answer for that, but it is something that we should ponder before advocating it.  

Beyond that, I know that often times the one who is conducting the ceremony will bring it to a climax by saying something similar to "By the power vested in me, I now pronounce you man and wife."  

But, what power?  Vested in him by whom?  Does he claim that God has given him the power to pronounce a couple as husband and wife?  Certainly there is no scriptural support for such a statement.  Should we rely on the proclamation of someone whom we know is a teacher of false doctrine to officially proclaim a man and a woman being one flesh?  And should we assume that if it is not done in this way, then the couple is not officially married?  Again, I don't think there will be any scripture supporting that.

I just wonder greatly about this, because we know that Jesus said that the flesh profits nothing, but the Spirit gives life.  We know that adultery is committed in the heart, and we know that true circumcision is of the heart.  I am trying to reconcile all of this in my mind with the idea of a traditional ceremony with a physical ring and tangible paperwork, etc.

2 Corinthians 3
3You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Part of me says that it would be right and obedient to go through the proper, customary steps as we do in this country, in order to make a marriage official.  

But then another part of me says that if we really do believe that the heart is what counts and the flesh profits nothing, then all of that stuff should not matter in the least, and that we should fully come out of that way of thinking.

We know that the Christian church wedding ceremony honors the Lord with the lips, but does that mean that the heart would also be automatically close to Him, having the ceremony conducted by a self proclaimed "priest" or "reverend?"  Would it be like mocking God or taking His name in vein to have a marriage "made official" at the "authority" of one who does not teach God's truths?  

I don't know.  I would certainly not advocate pre-marital (I mean offical marriage) sex to anyone without earnestly searching the will of God.  However, I might be inclined to say the same for the issue of going through a religious wedding ceremony too.  

I just hope everyone keeps in mind that we need to search out the spiritual meaning of the scriptures for all major issues such as these.   And we also need to keep in mind Paul's warning:

Galatians 5
15If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

I'm sure that all of the Christian denominations that exist today arose from groups of believers who had previously been of one mind.    I hope it doesn't happen here.

Let us all pray that none of us fall into the trap of hastily reading the scriptures with our carnal minds, as the Christian world does.

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: Kat on January 31, 2007, 01:42:55 AM

Hi Joey,

Quote

I am trying to reconcile all of this in my mind with the idea of a traditional ceremony with a physical ring and tangible paperwork, etc.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that someone should go through a church wedding.
There were alternatives brought up, but that is not something that needs to be decided here.

Quote

We should always strive to seek out the spirit of the scripture, as opposed to merely just the printed letter.

I think that is the whole objective of those of us here  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: Joey Porter on January 31, 2007, 02:00:26 AM

Quote from: Kat on January 31, 2007, 01:42:55 AM

Hi Joey,

Quote

I am trying to reconcile all of this in my mind with the idea of a traditional ceremony with a physical ring and tangible paperwork, etc.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that someone should go through a church wedding.
There were alternatives brought up, but that is not something that needs to be decided here.

Quote

We should always strive to seek out the spirit of the scripture, as opposed to merely just the printed letter.

I think that is the whole objective of those of us here  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

I understand about the alternatives and so forth.  But I guess the main question to ponder is - what is the definition of true marriage, and who or what defines it? Is it God plus the hearts of the two alone that define it, or is it both of those things combined with the culture of the time?

I just can't bring myself to autmomatically profess Bradigan's situaton as being blatantly sinful.  Maybe it is sinful.  Maybe it is not.  I didn't want to reply to give my opinion of that specific situation.  But I did want to reply simply because of the concern I had about some of the strife that seems to have arisen.

I'm not really going to post on this issue any further because it's not something that I am feeling drawn to at this time. 

God bless.  :)

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: Kat on January 31, 2007, 02:25:28 AM

Hi Joey,

I guess we have heard all sides on this pretty much.
So it is ultimately something that the people involved must work out for themselves.
And of course we have no free will, so it is all God caused  ;)

Rom 14:10  Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God;
v. 11  for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."
v. 12  So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
v. 13  Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on January 31, 2007, 04:42:59 AM

Marriage is divinely instituted.

Gen 2 : 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall become united and cleave to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.  

NOTICE the above scripture does NOT say the following….therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother, shall become one flesh and THEN become united and cleave to his wife.

God is a God of order!

Marriage is a covenant relationship

Mal 2 : 7,8 For the Priests lips should guard and keep pure the knowledge of My law and the people should seek inquire for and require instruction at his mouth; for he is the ;messenger of the Lord of hosts. 8. But you have turned aside out of the way; you have caused many to stumble by your instruction in the law you have corrupted the covenant of Levi with Me says the Lord of hosts.

Marriage is celebrated with great rejoicing.
Jeremiah 33 : 11 The voice of joy, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the voice of THEM that shall say, Praise the Lord of hosts; for the Lord is good; for His mercy endureth for ever; and of them that shall bring the sacrifice of praise into the house of the Lord, For I will cause to return the captivity of the land, as at the first, says the Lord.John 3 : 29 He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the groomsman who stands by and LISTENS to HIM rejoices greatly and heartily on account of the bridegroom’s voice. This then is my pleasure and joy, and it is now complete.

Marriage rejected in latter days.

1 Tim 4 : 2,3 Through the hypocrisy and pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared, cauterised, 3 Who forbid people to marry ….which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and have an increasingly clear knowledge of the truth.  

Marriage is illustrative of Christ’s union with His Church
Eph 5 : 23,24,32

For the HUSBAND is head of the wife as Christ is the Head of the church, Himself the Savior of His body 24. As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their HUSBANDS. THIS MYSTERY IS VERY GREAT…………

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: Redbird on January 31, 2007, 05:00:53 AM

So, it sounds like the recipe for God's marriage plan is;

1. Leave
2. Cleave
3. Become as one

Easier said than done!  But, with God, all things are possible.

Peace, Lisa

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: Craig on January 31, 2007, 09:45:19 AM

Quote from: Joey Porter on January 31, 2007, 01:17:01 AM

I've heard Ray say a few times that "the bible doesn't always mean what it says, but it always means what it means."  I've seen people say that we must back up our beliefs on this issue with scripture.  That certainly is true, but it's never really as simple as that. We should always strive to seek out the spirit of the scripture, as opposed to merely just the printed letter.  After all, every major Christian denomination in the world backs up their doctrines with scripture.  So just because the scriptures speak of marriage feasts and so forth doesn't necessarily mean that the scriptures endorse an actual  wedding ceremony, with an exchange of vows, conducted by a "minister'' or "priest.''

Joey that is what Joe stated earlier

Quote

The ceremony, the ring and all that is not important at all it is the public proclaimation and record of this proclaimation in regard to the intent for a man and a woman to love and cherish each other for the rest of their natural lives. The state requires a marriage certificate in the case of dividing property or inheritence to the children, of course a will can cover these things, social security benefits and other things are affected by marriage and even the length of the marriage.

I would think God would care less about the ceremomy.

Craig

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: Bradigans on January 31, 2007, 11:23:20 AM

Philippians 1:18 - What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. 


Just replying to someone’s comment of, “This scripture from Paul seems fitting, tho I am not comparing myself to Paul, not at all.” First of all 1 Corinthians 3:22 - Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's. 1 Corinthians 3:5 - Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?    You're not stealing his quotes. He is a part of the body. I believe we have got to get out of this attitude of I coined this or she coined that. We are one body. 1 Corinthians 12:14 - For the body is not one member, but many. When the Holy Spirit lays something on one's heart it's for the entire body. 1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. If you coming from THE WORD (OR TRULY ATTEMPTING BECAUSE GOD KNOWS YOUR HEART) it's not about coining anything. Who's the head, and who's Spirit is THE WORD? Proverbs 27:17 - Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.    This is for me as much as for everyone else. 2 Timothy 2:6 - The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.

IN HIS LOVE,


Bradford

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: Kat on January 31, 2007, 11:33:28 AM

Hi Bradford,

I think I get your point  :)
I just didn't want to come across as trying to appear superior or like a know it all.
I'm learning many things as I go, just like everybody else.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: Bradigans on January 31, 2007, 11:51:08 AM

"Jesus did not seem to discount marriage or even the ceremony, ritual or feast when He walked the earth."


1 Corinthians 10:31 - Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. 

Title: Re: Reveling in infidelities
Post by: Kirk on January 31, 2007, 11:39:48 PM

Quote from: Dwight on January 31, 2007, 12:54:55 AM

Hi Kirk,

I just noticed that was your first post!  Welcome in His name; we're happy to have you here and yes anything biblical that you have, please share it with us.

In Him,

Dwight




Dwight.....Let's see if I can figure out this response system.  I hope this posts.....

I see the pattern as pretty simple:

1. mutual dedication towards one another (until death)
2. public proclamation of dedication
3. sexual intercourse

This pattern is presented more or less in Genesis (Adam and Eve) and again when Isaac and
Rebekah are betrothed.

This would be the Biblical pattern, and adjunct civil laws should also be followed.  When my wife
and I took out our marriage license, we were technically then married.  The ceremony followed
three weeks later.