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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: hillsbororiver on September 04, 2006, 11:35:39 AM
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Zec 5:1 Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll.
Zec 5:2 And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.
These verses were used on TBN by Paul Crouch to show that his satellites were predicted in scripture, he even had a scale model of a satellite on the coffee table to show the dimensions were also on the "money."
A few of us were sitting around Ray's kitchen table Saturday night discussing this and we were all amazed at the verses that immediately follow this prophecy, but not surprised at all that they were not presented on the program;
Zec 5:3 Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it.
Zec 5:4 I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.
What "stealing" is going on through the messages being presented?
This curse that enters into the midst of the house, is it coming through the TV sets of those who are believing and swearing by the heresy being preached?
Look at this;
Zec 5:5 Then the angel that talked with me went forth and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes and see what is this that goeth forth.
Zec 5:6 And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth.
Amazing stuff.
Zec 5:7 And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah.
Zec 5:8 And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof.
Any thoughts on who this woman represents (a harlot maybe?)
I had never seen any of this before and I was inspired to read the entire book, so many prophecies of how the fathers (leaders) would turn the flock into merchandise and how the people went along with it.
This is an incredible study;
Joe
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Excellent post Joe. Thank you for sharing.
This really re-inforces how God blinds the eyes and allows people to understand only what He reveals to them. Surely Paul Crouch has read the verses that follow his "theory", yet the message is obviously completely hidden from him.
Amazing, our God is!
Love,
Marie
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Thank you Marie,
The words you spoke are so true, look at this in Chapter 7;
Zec 7:10 And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.
Zec 7:11 But they refused to hearken and pulled away the shoulder and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.
Zec 7:12 Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the LORD of hosts.
Joe
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Hi Joe,
At first I thought 'great, a funny story' - just posted in the wrong bit ;) but when I read it was for real, I wasn't really surprised [after I was initially surprised ;D].
I am absolutely 'blown away' at what I've discovered up to now, an I haven't been at it all that very long. I think it's true that if you can 'get' the underlying principles, you can also see so much more than you could ever imagine would be contained in the scriptures.
Thats the thing that convinces me completely of the validity of the scriptures. I don't believe that ANYONE on this earth, past or present, no matter how brilliant, could so ingeniously interweave all the hidden layers into a collection of books such as presented to us in scripture, but still retain a 'literal' meaning if thats what you are destined to see.They HAVE to have been inspired by a knowledge far greater then puny mans' I'm in total awe, and even that doesn't describe adequately enough how I feel. I just hope God grants me the time to get through everything before my own 'long sleep' in the unperceived. :)
Great subject to study. Keep us posted with your findings please ;D
Angie
x
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Hello Angie,
Thank you for the comments, I saw what you meant by the original title to this thread so I made it a bit more complete, the former title (Flying rolls) made it sound like a joke about a bakery explosion.
This book of Zechariah is an incredible prophecy of the fall of the haughty false prophets, teachers of lies and evil shepherds and also of the elect and their (ours I pray) role in declaring the glory of our Lord and our God.
More is forthcoming, I appreciate any and all comments anyone might have about any of the verses in this book.
His Peace to you,
Joe
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Any thoughts on who this woman represents (a harlot maybe?)
Hi Joe,
I read Zech. chapter 5 about if woman represent of harlot. I found scriptures we can see like matching scriptures to scriptures:
Zechariah 5:11 NKJV
And he said to me, "To build a house for it in the land of Shinar [Bablon, Rev. 17:5]; when it is ready, the basket will be set there on its base."
Zechariah 5:3
…This is the curse that goes out over the face of the whole earth [Rev. 17:5]…
Zechariah 5:7
Here is a lead disc lifted up, and this is a woman sitting [Rev. 17:9] inside the basket";
Zechariah 5:8
…"This is [woman] Wickedness [Rev. 17:9]!"…
Revelation 17:5
And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON [Zec. 5:11] THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS [unclean-wickedness, Zec. 5:9] OF THE EARTH [Zec. 5:3].
Revelation 17:9
Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits [Zec. 5:7].
I would say yes, that woman (sitting) in Zech 5:7 represent as harlot. The scriptures seem matching, think so?
Brett
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Yes Brett I agree, it is a glorious and amazing thing the way scripture intertwines with and amplifies other scripture.
Good stuff Brother,
Joe
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Hi Joe,
Now you have got me reading Zechariah too. :)
It is very interesting.
Chapter 5 about the woman, I found this Contemporary English Version a little more revealing.
Zec 5:7 The lead cover of the basket was opened, and in the basket was a woman.
Zec 5:8 "This woman represents evil," the angel explained. Then he threw her back into the basket and slammed the heavy cover down tight.
Zec 5:9 Right after this I saw two women coming through the sky like storks with wings outstretched in the wind. Suddenly they lifted the basket into the air,
Zec 5:10 and I asked the angel, "Where are they taking the basket?"
Zec 5:11 "To Babylonia," he answered, "where they will build a house for the basket and set it down inside."
This is a really good study. Thanks for getting me interested.
mercy, peacy, and love
Kat
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Hello Kat,
I like that translation (CEV) of these verses better than the KJV on E-sword. When I was studying this Sunday morning before we all met at the Conference I was using Rotherham's translation, this is how it is written there;
Zec 5:7 And lo! A leaden disc uplifted, and here a certain woman, sitting inside the ephah.
Zec 5:8 Then said he,
[This] is Lawlessness.
So he thrust her back inside the ephah, and then thrust the leaden weight into the mouth thereof.
Zec 5:9 Then lifted I up mine eyes and looked, and lo! Two Women coming forward, with the wind in their wings, and [they] had wings, like the wings of the stork and bare up the ephah, between the earth and the heavens.
Zec 5:10 Then said I unto the messengerwho was speaking with me, Whither are they carrying the ephah?
Zec 5:11 And he said unto me, To build for it a housein the land of Shinar, so it should be ready, and they should settle it there, upon its own base.
H8152
שׁנער
shin‛âr
shin-awr'
Probably of foreign derivation; Shinar, a plain in Babylon: - Shinar.
H374
אפה איפה
'êyphâh 'êphâh
ay-faw', ay-faw'
Of Egyptian derivation; an ephah or measure for grain; hence a measure in general: - ephah, (divers) measure (-s).
It appears an ephah is an Egyptian "bushel basket."
All this ties in perfectly with Revelation (speaking of the elect and of the harlot), as Brett mentioned;
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
I will be searching some of the other books that speak of the false message being "broadcast" throughout the earth.
Thanks Kat!
Joe
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Hi Joe,
Strange that in the lake of fire thread we were discussing mind, body & soul, then today you posted about all the things in Zechariah, which in turn got me reading it.
You are right about it being of incredible prophesy and couldn't believe what I saw in chapter 13:8-9
given we had been discussing the three parts that make up a person [mind, body & soul] and The lake of Fire.
Before looking at that though, look at these translations:
Land = strong's # 776 [eh'rets]; firm, earth, field, ground.
Earth = strong's # 776 "And the earth [776] was without form Gen 1:2
From the interlinear : Gen 2:7
And-He-is-forming Yahweh Elohim ^ the-human soil from the-ground
and- He-is-blowing in-nostrils-of-him breath-of living-ones.
From this we can see that 'land' means 'earth' and 'earth' means 'ground/soil' and that means US We are the 'land' in this next verse!!
Zech 13:8-9 "And it shall come to pass [that] in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off [and] die; but the third part shall be left therein. [9] And I will bring the third part through the fire and will refine them as as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, the Lord [is] my God.
Would you call that a coincidence ???
I have to say though I just absolutely love these next verses about how we 'pots' will all be in the 'Potter's house'
Zech 14:20-21 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORDS house shall be like the bowls before the alter. [all clean and sanctified :)]
Yea, every pot in jerusalem and in Judah [EVERYONE, Jew AND Gentile] shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe [be done/bring forth] therein: and in that day there shall be no more canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
Canaanite = Strong's #3369, By implication, a peddlar, merchant, trafficker.
Cheers for pointing that out in the first place Joe ;D
Angie
x
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This book has been a real eye opener for me and I appreciate all the comments and observations, here is more to ponder;
Zec 4:10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel2216 with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.
H2216
זרבּבל
zerûbbâbel
zer-oob-baw-bel'
From H2215 and H894; descended of (that is, from) Babylon, that is, born there; Zerubbabel, an Israelite: - Zerubbabel.
Zec 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive2132 branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
Zec 4:13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
Zec 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
H2132
זית
zayith
zah'-yith
Probably from an unused root (akin to H2099); an olive (as yielding illuminating oil), the tree, the branch or the berry: - olive (tree, -yard), Olivet.
Not concerned with the "small things" of this world but living as an illuminating oil (a light to the world).
Any and all comments will be appreciated,
Joe
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Hello, all...
Absolutely amazing stuff.....
peace
Chris R
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woohooo.
dang i been away too long. (http://bestsmileys.com/eating1/7.gif)
nice thread!!!
grace
chuckt
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Hi Joe,
Zec 4:10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel2216 with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.
A few more thoughts...
The plummet: 68,913
H68
אבן
'eben
eh'-ben
From the root of H1129 through the meaning, to build; a stone: - + carbuncle, + mason, + plummet, [chalk-, hail-, bead-, sling-] stone (-ny), (divers) weight (-s).
H913
בּדיל
bedîyl
bed-eel'
From H914; alloy (because removed by smelting); by analogy tin: - + plummet, tin.
How can a stone be an alloy? well it can't unless it is maybe referring to THE stone[ or rock that is Jesus] That is like an alloy, having been purified by smelting BY GOD WHO IS FIRE.
For who hath despised the day of small things?6996
Is this question not asking us to think about who it was that despised the least among them?
H6996
קטן קטן
qâṭân qâṭôn
kaw-tawn', kaw-tone'
From H6962; abbreviated, that is, diminutive, literally (in quantity, size or number) or figuratively (in age or importance): - least, less (-ser), little (one), small (-est, one, quantity, thing), young (-er, -est).
Luke 7:28 "For I tell you, among those who are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptizer, yet he who is least in the Kingdom of God is greater than he."
Jesus made Himself a servant of men too.
So who was it that would despise Him? Who would rejoice in themselves that He was in their hands to do with as they pleased?
If Zerubbel is an Israelite, or those collectively of Israel, [from babylon] then Jesus was in their hands, but more specifically, in the hands of those seven. Could this be referring to the church, the synagogue of satan, the mystery babylon who sits upon many waters [which runs to and fro through the whole earth]
It would seem so because: they1992 are the eyes5869 of the LORD
H1992
המּה הם
hêm hêmmâh
haym, haym'-maw
Masculine plural from H1931; they (only used when emphatic): - it, like, X (how, so) many (soever, more as) they (be), (the) same, X so, X such, their, them, these, they, those, which, who, whom, withal, ye.
H5869
עין
‛ayin
ah'-yin
Probably a primitive word; an eye (literally or figuratively); by analogy a fountain (as the eye of the landscape): - affliction, outward appearance, + before, + think best, colour, conceit
In summation, Is this scripture not prophesying that that Jesus [who is the word, is truth, who made himself the least amongst men] would suffer at the hands of the church, not just in the time of his ministry, but through all the age, throughout all the churches of the world, by those with babylonian roots? :-\
Deep stuff this ??? ;D
Angie
x
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woohooo.
dang i been away too long. (http://bestsmileys.com/eating1/7.gif)
nice thread!!!
grace
chuckt
LOL!
I like the little guy wolfing down the "meat" on his plate!
Great to see you Brother,
Joe
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Hi Joe,
This is a great thread. I reserve comment on anything I read, but I am now on chapter 6. You are right, this book is awesome. Thanks for getting me started reading it.
Brian
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Hi Angie,
I was reading what you were saying about Zec. 4:10.
I have a bit of a different angle on this.
I like to look at different translations,
to see what they say,
this is the Contempary English Version.
Zec 4:9 Zerubbabel laid the foundation for the temple, and he will complete it. Then everyone will know that you were sent by me, the LORD All-Powerful.
Zec 4:10 Those who have made fun of this day of small beginnings will celebrate when they see Zerubbabel holding this important stone. Those seven lamps represent my eyes--the eyes of the LORD--and they see everything on this earth.
'Zerubbabel laid the foundation for the temple,'
is this physical foundation,
a shadow of Christ laying the spiritual foundation of His church.
These 'small things' could be referring to the small beginning of those chosen for the kingdom.
Mar 4:30 And He said, to what shall we compare the kingdom of God? Or by what parable shall we compare it?
Mar 4:31 It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that are in the earth.
Mar 4:32 But when it has been sown, it grows up and becomes greater than all herbs, and shoots out great branches, so as to enable the birds of the air to roost under its shade.
v.10 "For who has despised the day of small things," is in the MKJV.
1Co 1:28 and God has chosen the base things of the world, and things which are despised, and things which are not, in order to bring to nothing things that are; (MKJV)
Zec 4:7 Who are you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you shall become a plain; and he shall bring forth the top stone with shoutings, Grace! Grace to it! (MKJV)
Is this the return of Christ?
Where the kingdoms (mountain) of the world will be brought low.
This top stone, not the same as the corner stone which is Christ,
and Zerubbabel (Christ) is holding this stone.
Could this be the last of the chosen to be put in place,
so that then and only then is the time right for the return of Christ.
Zec 4:10 "...These seven are the eyes of Jehovah which run to and fro through the whole earth."(MKJV)
2Ch 16:9 For the eyes of Jehovah run to and fro in all the whole earth to show Himself strong on behalf of those whose heart is perfect toward Him. You have done foolishly in this; therefore from now on you shall have wars. (MKJV)
This is the way I am seeing this.
I'm open to any input.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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Hi kat,
I really need to get a hold of some other books for comparison, I have been using pretty exclusively e-sword and whatever online translation is available. I would like to be able to sit, as was suggested earlier, with an open book [need to wait till payday :( ] Can you let me know of a few good ones please?
It would seem that what I wrote earlier is totally NOT it. :-[ But that's great what you wrote. Cheers for that, it helps no end getting a 'different angle' ;D
Angie
x
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Hi Angie,
I have all the different translations, commentaries, dictionary and other stuff on my e-sword.
Go to e-Sword.com and see if there is more available now.
Save your money, if you can get it free.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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Kat,
Thanks for that, will go look now
Angie
x
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Hi Joe,
This is a great thread. I reserve comment on anything I read, but I am now on chapter 6. You are right, this book is awesome. Thanks for getting me started reading it.
Brian
Hello Brian,
You are very welcome, I was blown away by this book and it reiterated to me that the prophecies of the OT are full of treasures pertaining to spiritual Israel, I can see that previously I was still holding on a little to that bit of Babylon than taught this part of the bible was for literal, physical, carnal Israel.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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Hello again Kat, Angie and everyone,
I believe this goes right along with what you are saying Kat;
Psa 119:139 My zeal hath consumed me, because mine enemies have forgotten thy words.
Psa 119:140 Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.
Psa 119:141 I am small and despised: yet do not I forget thy precepts.
Yes, I believe the small things spoken of in this verse (Zec 4:10) are indeed the elect;
Joe
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Zec 11:12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
Zec 11:13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
Mat 27:4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
Mat 27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed and went and hanged himself.
Mat 27:6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.
Mat 27:7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.
Mat 27:8 Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.
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Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die, but the third shall be left therein.
Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel. Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved.
Isa 10:22 For though Your people Israel is like the sand of the sea, only a remnant of it shall return; a decisive end, overflowing with righteousness.
Zec13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.
Isa 48:10 Behold, I have refined you, but not with silver; I have chosen you in the furnace of affliction.
Rev 2:10 Do not at all fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw you into prison, so that you may be tried; and you will have affliction ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Wow! Check out Zec13:9 and Rev2:10....hard core proof the Lord uses the devil for his good purpose.
LORD, YOU ARE OUR GOD! THANK YOU!!!
I am so excited that I have been blessed to know our God.
Marie
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I will go back to my old buddy Zechariah to describe what I call a "Joshua moment," this I believe is something we all go through at different times, especially when we attempt to pull on the yoke independent of Him..
Zec 3:1 And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
Zec 3:3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
Zec 3:4 And he answered and spoke unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
Zec 3:5 And I said, Let them set a fair miter upon his head. So they set a fair miter upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by.
Zec 3:6 And the angel of the LORD protested unto Joshua, saying,
Zec 3:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.
When we walk alone we walk in the filthy garments of our own righteousness, He wants us to walk with Him in the clean white raiment which is His righteousness.
When Satan zeroes in on us accusing and confusing us we must rebuke him in the name of the Lord and refocus our attention from ourselves back to Him.
Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
His Peace and Wisdom to you all,
Joe
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Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die, but the third shall be left therein.
Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel. Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved.
Isa 10:22 For though Your people Israel is like the sand of the sea, only a remnant of it shall return; a decisive end, overflowing with righteousness.
Zec13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.
Isa 48:10 Behold, I have refined you, but not with silver; I have chosen you in the furnace of affliction.
Rev 2:10 Do not at all fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw you into prison, so that you may be tried; and you will have affliction ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Wow! Check out Zec13:9 and Rev2:10....hard core proof the Lord uses the devil for his good purpose.
LORD, YOU ARE OUR GOD! THANK YOU!!!
I am so excited that I have been blessed to know our God.
Marie
Amen Sister!