If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Corinthians 13:1-3
Doesn't this just sum it all up? I get so weary of all the theological wrangling and wrestling, doctrinal debating and comparing of our understanding against our neighbor's. I SEE how knowledge puffs up and causes pride. I SEE how working our way up the ladder only makes us look down on others.
What I KNOW (or don't) is of God. What I DO (or don't) is of God. It is the motivation of our heart that is most important imho. And even my heart's motivation I believe is also of God......He is completely sovereign.
Wrant over.
thank you Alex. I have nothing, NOTHING, physical or spiritual, that I have not received. I can give nothing to God that He hasn't first given to me. I am completely and totally the work of His hands, as we ALL are, regardless if we realize it or not. I am thankful for what little God has given me to understand. Sure, I would love to understand more. All in His time. It's just that I 'see' a spirit working in people sometimes that I don't like.....it makes me sad. A puffed up, adversarial, contentious tone. I guess there is a purpose.......It would be lovely to be able to discuss and bounce ideas and share without THAT spirit.
I will just say this now, it seems to be that love is not a lot of what goes on in this forum. When people cut each other up with scriptures and call names and assume all kinds of stuff, and they don't pay attention to what has been written and are sarcastic to each other, well I can get that out in the world all day long. You people here think your all the elect, I can only say this
For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
In Christ Mike
I had to re-read my original post just to make sure, but was pretty sure I did not say that knowledge was not important, but the scripture is saying that knowledge (or works or tongues, etc) WITHOUT love would be nothing (Dr. Kennedy-that Ray spoke of so much- comes to mind). I am all about gaining as much understanding as I can, but if my heart is cold and snarky, I am just like the majority of the judgmental self righteous religious.
I guess I am just bone-tired and war-weary There is SO much going on in my life, and SO much I don't understand, and it is frustrating to think I might not get the understanding I desire in this life.....I haven't found ANY forum or group or church that agrees on every point, and where they disagree, it usually gets ugly fast. I agree with MiKe, I can't stand to see people being so hateful to each other, ESPECIALLY believers....I LOVED the scriptures posted by Kat, and wholeheartedly think that THAT is the spirit that should be flowing thru us, thru this forum and thru all true believers. I think we will always (in this life anyway) disagree on some points, but we should be able to heartily and enthusiastically discuss our views with love and gentleness, patience and peace. Alex, I am so in agreement with you, my wholehearted constant prayer is THY KINGDOM COME.....it can't be soon enough.
Thanks Lauriellen for provoking us to Love, and to good works.
I'm adding a few verses in 1st Corinthians 13 where you left off;
13:4-Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5-Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6-Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7-Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
May the LORD bless all of the forum's guest, and members.
Joel
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Corinthians 13:1-3
Doesn't this just sum it all up? I get so weary of all the theological wrangling and wrestling, doctrinal debating and comparing of our understanding against our neighbor's. I SEE how knowledge puffs up and causes pride. I SEE how working our way up the ladder only makes us look down on others.
What I KNOW (or don't) is of God. What I DO (or don't) is of God. It is the motivation of our heart that is most important imho. And even my heart's motivation I believe is also of God......He is completely sovereign.
Wrant over.
Thanks JFK. I didn't take your comment as a personal attack. I know that your comments can come across as a little harsh at times, but I have always (and do) highly respected what you have to say....I know your motivation is a love of truth...and sometimes love IS tuff. ;D
Well I will say I have come to appreciate this forum a great deal, I feel I'm among believers when I come here. Yes we are have a varied background of experiences that we draw from and where we are in our studies on these truths. We're all on the same path of seeking this truth, just at different places along it. I feel it is a privilege to be able to discuss these thing among like minded people and I am glad to help some newbies with the basics, but I certainly like to get into the deeper things as well.
God did not take the believers He is teaching off to a monastery in a wilderness some where... no we are all living right in the world and for good reason, it is our training ground. We are trying to learn how to be separate from the world, while still in it. So if God called us all here so we can support one another in this difficult task, then it is good to help and we all have our own way of doing that.
I try to realize that this forum sort of represents the kingdom... I mean it is the grouping together of God's people and I believe this may very well be the only place in the world like this. We need to be able to get along here, if we are to work together in the kingdom. Because we are united together by this truth and should give each other the benefit of the doubt, it's so easy to misunderstand what somebody is saying or be misunderstood, so we need patience with one another. If somebody is weak in one area of understanding... well we all have to grow, I mean I realize looking back that I have moved on to a better understanding on so many things. But it's been a process of understanding going through many steps to build a better understanding, this is how the precept upon precept works I'm thinking. I feel and we all should think of this as a "labor of love" we are participating in here.
Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.
v. 10 For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Doesn't this just sum it all up? What I KNOW (or don't) is of God. What I DO (or don't) is of God. ---Lauriellen
Yes.
"I will just say this now, it seems to be that love is not a lot of what goes on in this forum. When people cut each other up with scriptures and call names and assume all kinds of stuff, and they don't pay attention to what has been written and are sarcastic to each other, well I can get that out in the world all day long. You people here think your all the elect, ..."--MICHAEL G
Human we are. We all bring a myriad of life-filtering that has produced jagged edges and those edges, sometimes unawares, cut like glass. Written words spilled out before before a good 'thinking through' don't normally convey a warm tone as we think they may. The thinking through process is as difficult as smoothing out those jagged edges. Part of the process of learning 'humble' is discovering one's own self when the time is at hand to turn the cheek. Most of us watch the bridge burn at failure, many many times before we are able to walk the bridge across. Guilty party writing.
But then there is forgiveness.........
Well I will say I have come to appreciate this forum a great deal, I feel I'm among believers when I come here. Yes we are have a varied background of experiences that we draw from and where we are in our studies on these truths. We're all on the same path of seeking this truth, just at different places along it. I feel it is a privilege to be able to discuss these thing among like minded people and I am glad to help some newbies with the basics, but I certainly like to get into the deeper things as well.
God did not take the believers He is teaching off to a monastery in a wilderness some where... no we are all living right in the world and for good reason, it is our training ground. We are trying to learn how to be separate from the world, while still in it. So if God called us all here so we can support one another in this difficult task, then it is good to help and we all have our own way of doing that.
I try to realize that this forum sort of represents the kingdom... I mean it is the grouping together of God's people and I believe this may very well be the only place in the world like this. We need to be able to get along here, if we are to work together in the kingdom. Because we are united together by this truth and should give each other the benefit of the doubt, it's so easy to misunderstand what somebody is saying or be misunderstood, so we need patience with one another. If somebody is weak in one area of understanding... well we all have to grow, I mean I realize looking back that I have moved on to a better understanding on so many things. But it's been a process of understanding going through many steps to build a better understanding, this is how the precept upon precept works I'm thinking. I feel and we all should think of this as a "labor of love" we are participating in here.
Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.
v. 10 For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Thanks for this great reminder, Kat.
A while back I was listening to a lecture and the professor said "It's important to remember you didn't marry yourself. You married a different, unique, individual person." This struck a chord with me, because it's easy to forget that sometimes. I want my wife to eat healthy like I do, I want her to like the same kind of movies, have the same disposition, believe the same things, etc. But I have to remember she is a different person---she comes from a different background, had a very different childhood than I did, and has different tastes. It's not my job to make her into another me. Sometimes it's good for couples to fight, because the arguments can produce good results, and make us see and appreciate that we are different.
I like to think it is like that here on the forum too. There are a lot of different backgrounds here. Furthermore, a lot of us have not met each other in person, and words on a computer screen are not always read in the tone that the author intended. I hope the so-called bickering here is us learning to see and appreciate the fact that we are different, and are at different places on the path to the Truth. We may be puny and insignificant, but God is big enough to use the bickering for our own good.