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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: lilitalienboi16 on September 19, 2012, 02:17:02 PM
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Hey guys... men, mentlegen, sirs, gentlemen.
SO.. I have this SUPER EMBERASSING SHAMEFUL habit.. ill just come out and say it but please don't hate me... masturbation. Pornography. It's something I'm EXTREMELY ASHAMED OF and HATE DOING but I can't see to STOP.
I go from wanting to do it in moments to absolutely hating myself for having done it.
I've been struggling with this for years and it seems as i've reached my nearly mid 20's its gotten WORSE. The desire is far worse than when I was say 18 or 19 and definitely when I was 16.
SO my question is... What on earth do I do?! I've prayed, I've begged God, i'm still struggling like crazy and I feel like it's driving a HUGE WEDGE between me and our Lord. I am so ashamed of my conduct, I feel like such a huge hypocrite in whatever I Do, in even saying I'm sorry and YET i STILL DO IT!! ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!! WHY!?
I am haunted by the saying "Don't say sorry if you're going to do it again." It's so bad sometimes I feel like I shouldn't even pray to God because I'm just a lying hypocrite anyway whose going to keep on committing this sin only to say "I'm sorry" and ask for forgiveness the next second. I mean.. if i were GOd, i'd be pretty sick of me right about now.
I'm mad at paul for saying HE was the worst sinner because if he met me he might rethink that statement. I Mean paul didn't have to deal with easy access to pornography?! Sure.. he had raging hormones maybe at some point but i feel like it's far worse for me then it was for him -.-
So guys.. Gentlemen, sirs, what is the secret?! Can you share your wisdom with me looking back? Is there something wrong with me?! Do i need therapy here?
It's things like this that make me not even want to share scripture or defend my beliefs because i'm such a huge hypocrite I feel like why should I even be talking about God if I can't walk the talk?
Do you guys still struggle with this? Why is it this sin that God feels the need to drag on in our lives? I remember learning about how using the Lords name in vein was a sin and almost immediately dropped the words from my vocabulary and never looked back. Yet this... this................... am I doomed to be haunted all the days of my life with this great shame?
Arrrrrrrrrrrg.
Welp.. share away gentlemen.. share away.
Ladies, feel free to add any stories of perhaps your men and their struggles if you feel appropriate. Or perhaps your own? I don't know.. maybe it's this bad for women too.
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Alex, all I've been able to do is trim around the edges.
I've believed (right or wrong) for a long time that God created us in such a way that perhaps the strongest pull of the flesh occurs when we are least experienced and able to deal with it. It's almost a metaphor--a parable we live through--about how we are plopped down in this life without having asked to be here.
If you're like I have been (and still am to a large degree) you see 'this' in scripture whenever it speaks about 'the flesh' and 'lusts'. I won't ague that it isn't a part of all that. I'l just argue that it isn't the totality of that. I think John has alluded to what I'm talking about.
I'll try to come back later when I have more time. Paul advised to Timothy that he take a little wine for his ailment. There may be some spiritual 'wine' that will help you deal with things short-term. I'm not going to have any 'advice' that lasts forever.
Love to you, my young clay brother. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just.
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Alex;
I just turned 50 this year and there is not 'trick' that I know of to overcome the flesh in any area let alone this one. I think that one of most important things to overcome areas of the flesh is to finally realize that in and of yourself you can't deliver yourself in any way. I struggled a lot in this area when I was younger as well. It wasn't even the act itself that caused me as much shame as the things that went through my mind at the time. At this point I think it is part of seeing our house of sand crumble. It's easy to tell yourself that you have to pray more, take cold showers and avoid the things that may lead to the desire. That may work for awhile but not very long.
It does get better with age but I certainly can't take credit for overcoming anything on my own. The biological clock does begin to slow down in the late 30's and into the 40's and personally I'm very thankful for that. I see these ads for 'male enhancement' on the TV and I think to myself that those guys are nuts to want to take more testosterone, ect. I'm glad at this point not to be thinking about it 24/7 like I was when I was younger. Just know that what your enduring is common to all men to one degree or another.....you don't have an original sin in your body, and it does get better in time. Wish I could be of more encouragement but some things you just have to walk through and it's part of the process.
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Hello brother,
Is there something wrong with me?!
I would say no, you are being perfected into God's image.
I would say yes, you have something wrong as so I do and many other brothers:
"Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world."
1 Peter 5:9
This helps me.
Easier said than done, as everything.
God bless
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John, I never for a second thought you meant to admit to your old age!! But we all know!!! ;)
Dave, I certainly look forward to more of what you have to share. If there is a "spiritual wine" as a remedy, I don't know it! Other than our Lord of course.. but He seems content with me being this way. Sometimes I get scared because I have an idea of where *I* want my life to go and who *I* want to be and not knowing what God REALLY has planned frigthens me at times. What if He's destined me to fall away into this sin and to be removed from Him for this life? I could not stand such an existence.. though I supposed if it happened, I would be completely powerless to change my fate.
Arion, It seems with old age the tendency fades but, I Have seen, in fear, some older men who act worse than I in these matters. That is a scary thought... I don't want to be a slave to this all my life. I grew tired of it a few years ago but it served me little good as I still am here, in a worse state now than ever before.
Levy, Thank you for the reminder. It helps to know I'm not alone but it also doesn't bring me re-assurance that I will be taken out of this state before the end of my life. I would like not to deal with this for the rest of my short existence.. As I said, it drives me to feel ashamed to talk about my faith, to talk TO the Lord at times because I get so sick of apologizing to Him... >.> I know I'd be sick of me if I had to listen to all my apologies over the same matter time and time again.
I guess talking about this really helps alot even if I can't get any definite answers. Just knowing you guys are there with me and dealing with it too gives me some courage to press forward and not be afraid to atleast tell my Lord, I'm sorry... even if he's heard it for the trillionth billionth time by now >.>
Please keep your stories coming, don't be afraid to share guys. I need this!
With love,
Alex
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I think everyone here has said it about right. Masturbation is one of a multitude of things we do whilst in the flesh. We probably find it quite prominent as a sin because it's to do with sex and sex is one of those taboo subjects, especially within the church. In fact according to the church sex is possibly the WORST sin ever. They talk about it like it's worse than killing someone. Look at their hang ups on homosexuality for example. They place so much focus on sex, like it's the worst thing in the world. That's probably why you feel it's so bad. It's such a personal thing and a feeling of being totally exposed so it feels embarrasing. But there are other sins we have like selfishness, greed, laziness, profanity, lying etc...ask yourself how much of the rest of that is within you too. We're all in the same boat, i say.
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Brother......this is a a human condition for sure....and not just for men.....as embarrassing as it is selfish.....it is enjoy the benefits of sex with out even having a partner! and suicide would up there with that level of selfishness imo.....however....my opinions on the subject may or may not have much weight....having struggled with this as I am about to turn 44....for most of my life....I believe i was about 10 or s0 when I began to realize the pleasure and release of sexual tension this would give me.....and I too would do it daily......well as a young man....I find today.....once a week....and a few times a month is average......the body has not the same zest for it but my mind is in overdrive all too often......the sorrow I would feel after doing it and or the thoughts I had while doing this or even the pictures and or videos and items I would use while involved.....made me feel I was never gonna overcome and or enjoyed this poison so much that I would never let go.....in fact married men confide in me that there is no answer to it......but having an outlet sure seemed like a good idea to me! Paul said it would be better to marry then to burn with passion......yet no one gets married burning after all do they? lol well not in my church congregation they did not for sure.....I do not have the answer and make things more of a challenge......Christ tells us not even to look at married woman with lust! this makes me a complete failure....cuz that is the part I fall into much more often then masturbation......and now I ask well Lord....what if the woman is not married? Can I do it then?! you see my mind? lol I want to justify my actions.....and make my lack of self control not sinful....fact is anything done apart from faith is sin. That said.....I know of no man that has over come this lust or sin. I know boasted of his single life....and I knew a man who once said for 20+ years he never masturbated....but lets see....Christ said if you even look at the woman with lust you have committed fornication and or adultry.....the church of course agrees and says further that Christ wants us to but off are right hand and gouge out our eye that is the agent used to promote this sin!!!! wow.....this scared the tar out of me to say the least......I do that Christ has paid for our sins.....the past....the present and future included....and this not only keeps my sanity but empowers me to overcome all sins....or things the church or myself or our God himself would see and know is sin......that gives me peace....even if a I fail......this topic is taboo....and few men....as well as fewer women discuss it with any degree of confidence....and I would say it is the most indulged in activity in human existence! I feel bad often after I do it.....and other times I don't feel bad.....I do wish I had a partner to share my sexuality with but that too is up to the Lord....just remember that all sin has been paid for! Let no one deceive you.....some men and women have stronger faith and or less of a struggle with sin....or types of sin.....your strength and or weaknesses are the way the enemy may accuse.....point the finger....and catch you on the law....promises.....vows....and things like "I will never do it again" we are merely setting ourselves up to fail....as my mother used to tell me......"hang a yet on that never statement" she would say you have not done it yet....but there is not boasting....especially not in the flesh....there is not confidence in the flesh.....and all the glory is the Fathers......I pray you find strength to stay at peace....while the storm and flesh of life decays and fails.....your faith is of greater value than gold.....and what pleases our Father.....if we are going to boast....let it be of our weakness!!! WOW Paul was right.....boast of your weakness so the power of Christ can rest upon you....this is how I overcome and not beat myself up with sin.....and in particular masturbation.....the sin that church says is evil.....we are after all sexual beings......find a mate......and be sexual....that is my answer and my long words in 2 cents LOL
thy will be done....
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You won't stop until you're truly ashamed of doing it. You say that you are, but you won't change until the guilt heavily outweighs the pleasure you receive from doing it. We don't stop any one particular sin until Jesus brings about a change of heart where our desire to please God is greater than fulfilling our flesh. Hang in there...focus on what you will be in time more so than where you are now, that's how God looks at us.
Hope this helps,
Marques
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My brother we all have the same problem! Ray said he stopped sinning mostly when the guilt outweighed the pleasure and God gave him control over them. I as well as you have the same problem exactly, but I am waiting for God to let me stop in his time. I try to resist as much as possible but at times it makes it worse. God is stopping us in his time, creating us in his image is He, Jesus said "fear not" . So I say don't worry this too shall pass
Just a thought, hope it helps
Greg
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A couple of other things Ray said:
Sometimes it was a long time after he wanted to be free of a sin before he was not under its dominion.
The reward for repentance is a clear concience.
Whatsoever things are ...pure...think on these things.
There are no magic bullets.
If I'm going to do better than before, I want to seperate porn from masturbation, even though the two are often intertwined.
What's helped me with porn (and the lust of the eyes):
Love. When you see the object, you're seeing a person who is a fellow human being. It doesn't matter if she is willing, or blatantly seductive, or whatever. It doesn't matter that if you 'preached' the gospel to her in your heart, she might bite your hand and resist forgiveness. She's also somebody for whom the Lord died and somebody destined to be in the Family of God. If your heart can change to see her that way, you will grow to not want to see her any other way.
Does that work? Love never fails. It's not just something we need and want to experience from God, but something we need and will want to give to others, including that model or actor or whatever. I fail to love, but when I love, it never fails.
There are a lot of ways to 'flee youthful lusts', but all of them require us to 'flee'.
As for masturbation. That's trickier because sometimes we think of that as a need. Sometimes, but not always. Sometimes its just bordeom, or self-soothing, or force of habit or some other motivation. Bordeom can be cured. We can break habits, avoid temptations and 'inflammations' (like porn), deny ourselves, etc. I'm not saying its easy...no change is. But it is a way of escape that's given to us when we're ready to use it.
Scripturally? I can't do better than John did.
Spiritually? Resist the Devil. I don't believe the devil is very much involved in the 'temptation'. That's something most guys need precious little 'pushing' to do. Resist the Devil trying to lie you under condemnation. Resist him lying that there is no salvation. Resist all his lies.
Psa 37:23,24 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.
Pro 24:15,16 Do not wait in ambush as a wicked man against the homestead of a righteous man; Do not devastate his reclining place; For the righteous one shall fall seven times and still rise, Yet the wicked shall be stumbled by evil.
Meditate on that for a good while. There's real, heavy, fatty red meat on that. (to note: If we can have sex with ourselves, can't we "wait in ambush" against ourselves? I think so.)
1Jn 1:6 If we should be saying that we are having fellowship with Him and should be walking in darkness, we are lying and are not doing the truth."
1Jn 1:7 Yet if we should be walking in the light as He is in the light, we are having fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, is cleansing us from every sin."
1Jn 1:8 If we should be saying that we have no sin we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
1Jn 1:9 If we should be avowing our sins, He is faithful and just that He may be pardoning us our sins and should be cleansing us from all injustice."
1Jn 1:10 If we should be saying that we have not sinned, we are making Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
What is that darkness in vs 6? I think it's the same darkness that the self-righteous Pharisees had when The Lord warned that if the light they had was darkness, how dark is the darkness. The 'cure' is walking in the light as expressed in the remaining verses. Absolute, bone-crushing, heart revealing honesty every step of the way. Does that work? It's the only thing that has ever worked for me.
Do good.
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Hi Alex,
I'm in my lates twenties and this too has always been a big shameful sin in my life.
None of us can stop sinning without the strength of God (which applies to all sins) and this thread is a good read http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11607.0.html.
Over time the guilt rises and I personally am finding that I want to do this less and less because the shame and guilt are outweighing the pleasure from it. I still fall but there has definitely been changes happening over the last 6 months for me.
As far as the forgiveness one thing to keep in mind is that God is not human. He has so much more forgiveness, compassion and understanding than we do so it's kind of silly to try and compare. He has not and will not abandon you Alex, he has you right where he wants you!
"Do not be afraid or discouraged, for the LORD will personally go ahead of you. He will be with you; he will neither fail you nor abandon you." Deuteronomy 31:8
Keep coming back to the word of God, there is so much encouragement in the scriptures. I had one of the worst days today where just everything went wrong but I know that this is all for a purpose. This scripture came to mind:
"for those whom the Lord loves He disciplines: and He scourges every son whom He acknowledges." Hebrews 12:6
Like Ray has said becoming saved is the hardest thing any human being will go through! Don't give up!
God bless,
Jase
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Hi Alex,
I'm going to risk coming into 'no womans land' to say something.
That is an act that involves self gratification, where you become so wrapped up in your own desires that everything else is blocked out and you are in your own little world. You must somehow find control from within yourself and where does that come from?
1Co 6:19-20 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in you, whom you have of God? And you are not your own, for you are bought with a price. Therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.
You must realize that the Holy Spirit/Jesus Christ bares witness to these acts. Does this glorify God? Of course not. If everytime you begin to think in that direction, if you can begin to focus your thoughts on the fact that you are NOT doing these things in secret, but that the eyes of God your Savior are on you. Well then it may help to begin the long journey out of this addiction you have.
Job 34:21 He watches every step we take. (GNB)
So there you go, hope I did not intrude too much.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Hi Alex,found this email...Rays response is spot on. ;)
Masturbation
« on: April 09, 2007, 04:28:56 PM »
I am a 19 year old male, living in ............... I have a problem that seems to me I will never get over. I have Had this problem since I was 13 and have been really fighting it for a couple years now, ever since Ive been saved. Holding off for a week and then doing it again, as hard as I try and not want to do it I just cant stop doing it. Ive prayed about it to God, and keep praying about it but it seems like my problem just takes control of me sometimes, I have been able to hold off for 2 weeks now, (the longest ever since the age of 13) but today I gave in to my flesh... my conscience does not even bother me anymore about this lust of the flesh anymore and that worrys me. My problem is masturbation and pornography, I want to stop doing these things because I know they are a lust of the flesh and I know doing them is a sin, and as a struggling Christian ;h ave a desire to serve God and let him take control of my life. I used to smoke pot and cigarettes, I also used to drink alot but have been able to stop those things without much struggle. But not masturbation and pornography. Your website has helped opened my eyes to many Biblical truths and I thank you and God for Bibletruths.com. Please I need ur help and ask u to tell me anything u can to help me get rid of this lust... May God Bless You and give u more wisdom and strength to uphold ur ministry. I pray for ur web site and you daily please pray for me also.
A Brother in Christ Jesus
To embarrassed to say my name...
Dear Embarrassed:
You are not alone out there with this particular pull of the flesh for sexual gratification. It is common among all men (and women to a somewhat lesser extent). It is GOOD that we should feel embarrassed over our sins. My past sins are an embarrassment to me when I from time to time think about them. If they were NOT an embarrassment to me, I might still be committing these same stupid and lustful acts. Embarrassment and guilt are good for us. These feelings first make us realize that these things are lustful, and wrong, and stupid. But we will not have victory over them unless and until God reveals to us their real purpose and need to get rid of them.
Where did the mechanism by which Eve: "saw that the tree was GOOD FOR FOOD, and that it was PLEASANT TO THE EYES, and a tree to be desired to MAKE ONE WISE..." come from in the first place? Did SHE create these desires in her heart and mind and soul? Get real--SHE HAD NOT A CLUE! God created humanity in the spiritually weakened state in which we find ourselves, but there is a great and grand reason and purpose for it.
There is a "SPIRITUAL GREATNESS" that is achieved by the conquering of illegal pulls [spiritually 'illegal'] of the flesh and the stupid sensual lust for self-gratification. These things are not good, in and by themselves, as modern psychologists might try to convince us, but they do serve a good purpose when they embarrass us and make us feel guilty. Embarrassment and guilt are the precursors to REPENTANCE.
We must come to the place in our lives where we not only desire to obey the laws of the land, the powers ordained by God to somewhat limit the evils of society, but to also obey the Laws of GOD. We want and desire to do what God says, not because we have figured out all the logical logistics of His commandments, but because we desire to OBEY HIM REGARDLESS of how well we understand all the reasons why God tells us to do and not do certain things.
Christians will argue; "Well I don't see the harm in teaching my little ones about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny." Of course they don't. To their carnal minds the commandment of God to "Learn NOT THE WAY OF THE HEATHEN" has little or no effect on their attempt to worship God as they please.
When you see the "SIN in sin" and start to hate sin as God hates sin, then and only then will you make progress in eliminating these things in your life. Of course, you know, when I say such things it means that God is bringing this about in your thinking and God is enabling you to have to the power to actually conquer these pulls of the flesh. All we who have had a measure of success in victory over sin to the point that sin "no longer has DOMINION over us" (Rom. 6:8-19), desired to be free from sin LONG BEFORE IT EVER ACTUALLY CAME ABOUT! I believe that most of my readers will say "A-men" to that!
Be patient and do not stop crying out to God for deliverance, for in time God will grant you the fruit of righteousness.
God be with you,
Ray
Hope this gives you some hope in the matter...
Peace...Mark
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Wow, that is a tough one. Now, it's been well over a year for me comitting the act, and being in a relationship and my age of 41 contributes a lot. We won't get into my sins at the moment even though I feel I am married to my girl in God's eyes. But we aren't even to have impure "thoughts" about another. So just not doing this act won't free one from sin. Now I remember the shame I felt the first time I really performed the act successfully. I didn't really even believe in God back then. But I told my-self that I would never ever do it again. That evening I went against my weak assertion and I felt so guilty (until the next morning). I then heard someone say that you can do it 100 times only and remain pure. So two weeks later I felt ever soooooo ashamed when I hit number 101. Anyway, the urges drop significantly with age but I suggest you marry a nice girl and stay with her. Hopefully she is as interested in sex as my girl. Best of luck.
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Brother Alex,
The heart is deceitful above all things, and is exceedingly weak... (Jer. 17:9)
The sin of lust comes out of our hearts, and that's what drives us to pornography and masturbation. Even if we stopped these habits, our hearts could be just as lustful. We could give up porn and masturbation completely, and still covet our neighbor's wife.
I am a regrettable example of this. Since I got married two years ago, my experiences with porn and masturbation have been greatly reduced (though not entirely eliminated). HOWEVER, I still lust just as badly as at any point in my entire life. And sadly, it is not only women that I see regularly (at my job, for instance.) I find myself thinking of girls I used to be attracted to and haven't seen for 10 years or more, and wondering what they might look like, etc. It is shameful.
So...I could move out in the wilderness by myself, far away from any female, with no access to porn, and tie my hands and crotch so I couldn't masturbate (or even cut off my testicles), and it still wouldn't do a bit of good, because there would still be lust in my heart. What does that prove to me? It proves that of myself I can do nothing. I'll only overcome the lust when God grants me the SPIRITUAL POWER to do so.
God hasn't given me that victory yet, but I know He will. I dream of that victory often, and think of the future when God will finish His work in me, and in the whole world, for that matter.
You know how we're fascinated by God's amazing achievement when we watch that cell video you posted for us? I feel the same fascination (and gratitude) when I think of what God will do in us--spiritually. Think of all the times we've tried to overcome the lust on our own and couldn't. If GOD can fix that in us, He must be REALLY POWERFUL! And the spiritual wonders that He will do in us are even greater and more beautiful than the physical wonder that is the human body.
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wow so many wonderful replies. I'm currently at school and very busy, lots of exames and assignments with quickly arriving due dates. I will be certain to reply to you all very soon!
Kathy, I simply wanted to say that your wisdom my dear precious sister, is always greatly appreciated and you could never overstep any invisible boundary. I appreciate everyones input be they male or female. My only concern was that perhaps some of the women simply could not relate to this issue but then again, some can and others can still by simply knowing a spouse or loved one who struggles with this and seeks freedom from these chains. I know ALL MEN struggle with this but not ALL desperately seek freedom from their chains of bondage as I do yet I knew here, on these forums, I would find some if not many who seek as I do.
So ladies, please, if you have wisdom to share, words of compassion and encouragement then do not hesitate to share them. Your brothers in Christ desperately need your encouragement, tender love and compassion to endure and God willing, be freed of these bondages before this life is over.
Like I said, I will get back to you all when I get another moment.
God bless and thank you a million for all your input from your personal struggles to your words of Wisdom.
With much love in Christ,
Alex
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I really, really want to throw the first stone and loving it, but....... :) :) ;)
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It's things like this that make me not even want to share scripture or defend my beliefs because i'm such a huge hypocrite I feel like why should I even be talking about God if I can't walk the talk?
Jas 5:16-18 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.
Found this tonight and thought it might be helpful.
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alex, dear young brother in Christ, i just started reading this thread yesterday (saturday) and i instantly knew there would be many pearls of wisdom given in reply. i finished reading through all the posts just a few minutes ago.
i raise my hand as one who struggled with masturbation in my past. there, i said it. and me a woman... weird thing is, i totally stopped even thinking about it for many years. then one day this particular lust raged it's ugly head in my heart again. and i always felt the guilt. and then one day i started also to feel such shame afterwards, that i just started getting sick and tired of carrying the weight of it all.
and then it really hit me that masturbation is not just something one does to themselves, it is something we do to the very Spirit of God the Father and our Saviour, every time, if indeed we believe the Scriptures and the Truths revealed in them.
and my heart felt dirty. and i knew that only my Creator Father could cleanse the dirt away. so. that's my story.
alex, there has been such Godly Wisdom in every post reply to your thread, at least in my opinion. i know that what God has begun in you already, at such a young age, He WILL complete.
i can finish this particular post reply to your thread lil italian boy, by saying one thing i know for sure that we ALL can say with a certainty is that, the flesh wants what the flesh wants. period. and THAT is the struggle, because you know in your heart that it is wrong for you. ahh, but there is Good News for us. Praise God!
meditate again and again on the words of wisdom you received alex. i know i will.
claudia
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this is somewhat of Ray's writing.... I just give little changes with respect to the topic....
"But you shall receive power after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you..." Acts 1:8
And so, when a man who is tempted to spend more time in the dark, looking to satisfy the urge, the Spirit of God will give him power to turn away. God won't make you or force you to turn away, but He will give you the power to turn away, and then you have to do the turning. And should you fail to turn away before you actually satisfy the urge, then you must "pluck out your bird. No not your literal, physical, organ of the body, but the lustful urge of your heart.
All lust comes from the heart, the carnal mind, and that part of the carnal mind must be "plucked out," or "cut off." But you must be the one who does the plucking and cutting or God will intervene and "cast your whole body into Gehenna fire" in a later Judgment where this spiritual fire is called "The Lake of Fire."
We can either volunteer to stop sinning now, in this life, or God will volunteer us to stop sinning later, in the resurrection to Judgment. Yes, of course, it will be God in us regardless of which Judgment we find ourselves
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Hi Alex just wanted to add to all the other great responses. This is something I can relate to cause I've also struggled with this quit a bit.
Negative thinking can really mess you up, so try to think of all the good things God has done for you.
Just gonna make a few comments from your post.
i'm still struggling like crazy and I feel like it's driving a HUGE WEDGE between me and our Lord.
Dont you believe it Alex. :)
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
if i were GOd, i'd be pretty sick of me right about now.
Aren't you glad God is not a man? God is very patient with us, so try to be patient with God.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance.
So while He is patient with you take the opportunity to do the right thing, one day at a time.
2Pe 3:15 Also, regard the patience of our Lord as an opportunity for salvation, just as our dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you.
I'm mad at paul for saying HE was the worst sinner because if he met me he might rethink that statement. I Mean paul didn't have to deal with easy access to pornography?! Sure.. he had raging hormones maybe at some point but i feel like it's far worse for me then it was for him -.-
Not to belittle your struggles, but I dont think you could hold a candle to Paul sins. And because Paul was truly the worst sinner ever, how much easier is it for God save you?
1Ti 1:16 But I obtained mercy for the reason that in me, as the foremost [of sinners], Jesus Christ might show forth and display all His perfect long-suffering and patience for an example to [encourage] those who would thereafter believe on Him for [the gaining of] eternal life.
Jas 5:7 Therefore, brothers, be patient until the Lord's coming. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth and is patient with it until it receives the early and the late rains.
Jas 5:8 You also must be patient. Strengthen your hearts, because the Lord's coming is near.
There's that patience thing again. ;)
Sincerely hope this helps and encourages you, cause your post and everyone else' has done the same for me. Thanks for posting it, that took a lot of guts young bro.
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Paul may indeed be the worst sinner from God's perspective...that I do not know. However, I believe that each and every one of us need to see ourselves as the 'worst sinner' who has ever walked the earth. It is part of the process of our house of sand falling. When I consider the goodness of God towards me, all the opportunities he has given me and how often I have failed him it's hard for me not to see myself as the worst sinner who has ever drawn breath.
I have not physically murdered people like Saul did before his conversion but yet I have murdered them in my heart. I have never committed the sin of physical rape but I have done so in my heart. The new testament requirements so far exceed the old as the heavens are above the earth. Under the law one could get away with all the private sins of the heart as only outward obedience was required. Under the new testament if we even look at a woman to lust after her we've already committed adultery against her in our hearts. So we've participated in our hearts with some of the most foul sins imaginable.
I can't help but to keep thinking about the audio that Ray did in Nashville 2005 called 'guilty of all'. If anyone hasn't listened to it recently or has never listened to it I highly suggest it. It helps us to see ourselves as we really are.
http://bible-truths.com/audio/N05%20Guilty_of_ALL.mp3
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You're not alone brother. I believe I'm about the same age as you.
Maybe this will help a bit. 1 Pet. 5:5-11 (ASV).
for God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace to the humble.
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time;
7 casting all your anxiety upon him, because he careth for you.
8 Be sober, be watchful: your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour,
9 whom withstand stedfast in your faith, knowing that the same sufferings are accomplished in your brethren who are in the world.
10 And the God of all grace, who called you unto his eternal glory in Christ, after that ye have suffered a little while, shall himself perfect, establish, strengthen you.
11 To him be the dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Perhaps we should stop trying so hard not to sin, we can't do, we'll never be able to do it by ourselves.
John 15:5 - I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for apart from me ye can do nothing.
Let us cease our own works.
Heb 4:10 - For he that has entered into His rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from His. (KJ21)
Mat. 11:28-30
28 Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
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1Co_6:12 All things are lawful to me, but not all things profit. All things are lawful to me, but I will not be ruled by any.
1Co_10:23 All things are lawful to me, but not all things profit. All things are lawful to me, but not all things build up.
"It is not sin, but the religious system that keeps your mind in bondage. Religion will tell you that to take a drink of alcohol or numerous other things are sin. As a new creation being you are free to do anything you want to do and God will not be displeased with you. It doesn’t matter what it is. It’s not going to change God’s mind towards you. It’s not going to change His heart towards you. It’s not going to change your ultimate destiny. You will continue to sow what you reap but that will not stop God."
Also a quote i LOVE....
i don't understand why we should feel ashamed or guilty or dirty for being the way God made and intended us to be.....If God only intended us to feel pleasure above the waist, why so much feeling below?...Its okay to rub your feet and feel pleasure, but not other areas?....feeling pleasure does not always include lust......its like trying to not breath, holding your breath and when you can no longer hold it, giving in and breathing and feeling like a guilty low down dirty dog......i don't think that is what God intended. just my thoughts.
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.Its okay to rub your feet and feel pleasure, but not other areas?....feeling pleasure does not always include lust.
It's not so much the act itself imo as it is the fantasies and things flooding through the mind that are being given free reign during the process of the act. I have yet to rub my feet and be thinking about fornicating with another man's wife.
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So God gave men raging hormones, but if someone beautiful goes walking by us we are only to admire what's she wearing?? It's almost impossible to differentiate between physical attraction and lust.
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Friend. If in your heart, as you walk, with Christ in you the hope of glory, and you do not find in your walk that you are offending yourself or Him, then you don't have a problem.
But should the Spirit, that guided Him, sound a voice, a noise, in you that it is a weakness, then call on Him, JESUS... and the Devil will quit each and every time. The Devil must cease, there is no choice, there is no other option.
Whatever offence that the Devil should spring on you that detours your walk, the same healing, curing, mending will take place. When a believer yields and calls on HIM, the Lord WILL remove whatever stumbling block the Adversary sets before you. I'm 67 and His words to me when I bring any of my failings to Him in prayer, are two simple words, "I KNOW." And I cry and feel re-assured, refreshed, and if you will, re-charged!
HE is so GOOD!
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Paul may indeed be the worst sinner from God's perspective...that I do not know. However, I believe that each and every one of us need to see ourselves as the 'worst sinner' who has ever walked the earth. It is part of the process of our house of sand falling. When I consider the goodness of God towards me, all the opportunities he has given me and how often I have failed him it's hard for me not to see myself as the worst sinner who has ever drawn breath.
I have not physically murdered people like Saul did before his conversion but yet I have murdered them in my heart. I have never committed the sin of physical rape but I have done so in my heart. The new testament requirements so far exceed the old as the heavens are above the earth. Under the law one could get away with all the private sins of the heart as only outward obedience was required. Under the new testament if we even look at a woman to lust after her we've already committed adultery against her in our hearts. So we've participated in our hearts with some of the most foul sins imaginable.
I can't help but to keep thinking about the audio that Ray did in Nashville 2005 called 'guilty of all'. If anyone hasn't listened to it recently or has never listened to it I highly suggest it. It helps us to see ourselves as we really are.
http://bible-truths.com/audio/N05%20Guilty_of_ALL.mp3
You may be right about that. I've often thought of myself as the worst sinner ever, but I dont think that is the point. For sure Im no better than whoever the worst sinner in the world may be, cause I would do the same things if in their shoes. My main point was God's patients toward us and that no one is too sinful that He cannot save. No one is so sinful that He would get tired of them and give up.
Personally Im trying to think positive. I've beaten myself up too much and too long. Time to quit dwelling in the past and look ahead. There will prolly always be sin in my life but God willing it will get less and less till it no longer has dominion over me. I think one way to do that is to think positive, think of good things. Only because God caused me to.
Here a couple places Ray talked about Paul being the worst sinner ever and why.
http://www.bible-truths.com/lake3.html
Most people believe that when Paul said he was the "chief of sinners" he was just blowing hot air--trying to play super humble or something. That he was so spiritual that he equated persecution of the church with being the grossest sin of all time. Not so. God’s Holy Spirit did not inspire Paul to "blow hot air" to make himself look artificially humble! Paul (Saul before his conversion) really was THE WORST SINNER THAT HAS EVER LIVED IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD! (Including Hitler!)
There is a very important reason for understanding how gross a sinner Paul really was. There is a paramount reason why you will NEVER be able to out-sin Paul. NO ONE has ever been able to out-sin Paul. Men like Hitler and Hussein may even come close, but no one will ever hold that infamous distinction of being the "chief, preeminent, foremost sinner of all time" but the apostle Paul. Jesus Christ had to fill that position two thousand years ago for our understanding of upon whom the ends of the ages are come! Here’s the proof:
The phrase "beyond measure" in the KJV (Gal. 1:13) is translated from the Greek word hyperbole and has two primary usages:
"TRANSCENDENT" as found in Scriptures such as II Cor. 4:17
"For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, works for us a far more EXCEEDING AND ETERNAL [eonian] WEIGHT of glory."
The Greek translated "exceeding" is huperbole, and means TRANSCENDENT. Transcendent describes something that is highest, incomparable, consummate, matchless, preeminent, sublime, perfect, unequaled, unparalleled, and unrivaled! In other words the highest possible degree. Nothing is higher than that which is huperbole -- TRANSCENDENT!
"INORDINATE" as we read in Gal. 1:13,
"For you hear of my behavior once, in Judaism, that I INORDINATELY persecuted the ecclesia [church] of God and ravaged it." (Concordant Literal New Testament).
Inordinate describes something that is excessive, exorbitant, extravagant, unreasonable, and too much. Now here’s the kicker: "Inordinately" is translated from the SAME GREEK WORD huperbole which is also translated "transcendently"! (For more details on this see my paper entitled Paul’s Thorn in the Flesh Identified).
Here then is the Biblical truth of this matter. To the degree that "transcendently" describes the HEIGHT of God’s goodness and glory, so likewise does the word "inordinately" describe the HEIGHT of evil that Paul perpetrated on the Church of God. God’s transcendent (huperbole) goodness and glory are UNPARALLELED! Likewise, Paul’s inordinate (huperbole) slaughter (murders) and threatenings are also, UNPARALLELED! God’s Word does not say in vain that Paul was the CHIEF, FOREMOST, PREEMINENT (very, very WORST) of ALL SINNERS WHO HAVE EVER LIVED! He really WAS.
Jesus Christ chose Paul, the WORST, CHIEF, FOREMOST, PREEMINENT SINNER THAT EVER LIVED (huperbole), to be put on PUBLIC DISPLAY for the whole world to see Jesus Christ demonstrating ALL HIS PATIENCE, for a "PATTERN" that will be repeated over, and over, and over again billions and billions of times for all those that Christ will likewise bring to repentance at any second He so desires!!!
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Once again I encourage you Alex not to give up hope. These things take time and I doubt He is finished with you yet. Think of all the other ways He may have changed your life, and keep hoping and praying He will continue to do so.
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it came down to a matter of the heart for me. the Spirit of God resides in the heart of the believer. not the physical heart. the mind of the heart. and my heart's mind felt darkness. for me, it was sin. i know because my heart began to convict me. alot. put on the mind of Christ...the mind of His heart.
but, it's all done in layers alex. peeling away in increments.
claudia
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A lot of thoughtful and deeply personal revealings and advice. I found much of it inspiring.
So I will give a little two cents, just to add to the mix. I have told God many times(in a desperate sort of way, not like I told Him, that if the next life judgments had a video recording of my sins in this area I would be too ashamed of myself to stand it. I was one that had a high sexual appetite and I why did I waste so much time and energy in masturbation and porn and such.
I told God with all contriteness and sincerity and pleading I did not want to stand before Him without victory over this, and my flesh. I am/was/will be hopefully to the end;...desperately hungry for ever increasing righteousness. Powerless I was and am to the flesh. No one needs to convince me of the power of the flesh.
No one needs to convince me that God wanted me to deeply learn of my human weakness and also to learn to hate hate! the sin, the weakness, the flesh in me. Ray has spoken of this in those emails published and quoted upstream. I felt his words were altogether true and captures what or part or some of the things that God wants us to learn in our struggles.
I thought, please God; I want victory over this before I am old. Now this thirst for victory in this area did not take place in my 20s or 30s(and I married in the 30s which helped) just to put this in context, with the OP. I did not think much of it when young. But later, I did. And I thought, how much does it count if I am victorious just because I no longer have testosterone coursing through my veins? This was my thought, as this continued, as I began to understand God's call for righteousness on me. I wanted something to show/prove for my faith, in all areas. These are the highly personal thoughts and prayers in my soul over a course of years.
i have no idea how valid that thought actually is; it's just that I wanted victory in the midst of the battle, not when the fight is no longer.
And even if he did not give me victory I understood much about the flesh and carnal appetite and myself; and it became at least one of the reasons I wanted and coveted a spiritual body free of the passions of the flesh which loves seeking gratification and selfish desires. It increased my desire to be DONE with the physical and hope and embrace the spiritual body which is given to those who love Him.
I can say that one day I noticed I did not have that lust. And then a week, and then a month. then it would return, but only briefly. Then it would be gone, almost like I was dead to it. And I did not miss it or want it back. There was a time that if this would of been gone I would of secretly wanted it back, I am sure, but now I do not.
Yet I do not consider myself victorious because I realize from past history that I am weak. But; but, I can say there is a night and day difference. And I walk in this. And I do not want to ever go back, I want to have freedom, this freedom God has decided that I should be given.
I do not have personal experience to share with a person who is a young man in their 20s, or even 30s, because I did not wrestle or trouble me that much then. It just seemed natural to me. Even as I was a seeker of the things of God then, but God was not showing me how deeply I was enslaved then. He was teaching me to love Him and to learn of the scriptures and of the deeper truths, and then I married and had kids and learned many other lessons of the world.
I still believe that Paul's advice to marry helps. But it doesn't address the root, just takes the edge off. But marry someone you love, and find interesting, that helps too :-).
If God is impressing on you to gain victory in this area, don't quench that. Also do not lose heart when you fail many times. I can tell you that there will come a time if you thirst after righteousness that you will be filled. And this filling may take many forms in other areas before God gives you victory in this area. So keep heart and do not let this one area become to much of a barometer of your spiritual growth. Just keep growing in Him and for sure keep yourself clean from illicit sexual relations with real persons, because I think this area WILL be more damaging to you because it involves other people besides yourself.
may God give you His righteous heart. Blessed are those who seek after righteousness....
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You won't stop until you're truly ashamed of doing it. You say that you are, but you won't change until the guilt heavily outweighs the pleasure you receive from doing it. We don't stop any one particular sin until Jesus brings about a change of heart where our desire to please God is greater than fulfilling our flesh. Hang in there...focus on what you will be in time more so than where you are now, that's how God looks at us.
Hope this helps,
Marques
Hello marques,
I wanted to thank you for this post, it really hit home to me. What got me was seeing myself as who I will be. Who the man that God is turning me into and not let my carnal mind or even the enemy discourage me.
I also found it really helps at the end of the day, even if the Lord safeguards my heart and mind from giving into the pulls of the flesh on that specific day to confess my other sins. To realize that even though this sin is so gross to me, I commit many others daily. Mostly in my mind through thoughts I think that may not be Christ like. I found it really soothing to my soul to confess and admit that even if I didn't physically masturbate I had still betrayed myself through my thoughts of lusting after that pretty girl earlier in the day.
Its one thing to KNOW that looking at another girl with lust in your heart might was well be fornication and its another thing to REALIZE it.
I think I've taken a huge step forward in seeing Christ take his rightful place upon the throne in this temple of God's even if my steps may seem like baby steps. I feel like I'm moving forward again.
I might very well struggle with this all my life, though I would have it not be so, I am not God and I am indeed a beast, powerless to obey the commands of my Lord but I have hope and a new perspective in not getting stuck in the beast I am now but rather seeing the Son of God I want to be, seeing myself as the Father can see me. Wholly His.
There is a lot of other things I want to say, speciially on some of these personal testomies other than my own but I'm typing this from my phone so I'm going to cut my reply short here. I will get back again when I get some more time to you all.
Again thank you everyone, and thank you to those who shared your very personal struggles. You are in my prayers.
With love in Christ,
Alex
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Ok seriously. We eat when we are hungry. If we don't eat one day the next we will need the food even more. As we age, we find that we don't need to eat as much. Is it really all about pleasure or is our survival the main part of the equation? Isn't prostate cancer more likely when we do not clean ourselves out physically? How long is a person going to go before they can no longer avoid this act? Of course it depends on age and whether the person is sexually active. . . . with his wife, hopefully. Young men are not able to overcome this unless they have a genetic condition preventing this need. Period!! So, we have a certain amount of control over our thoughts, (with God's guidence). But this need is going to have to be fullfilled. Somehow. But it cannot be met without lust. Can't be done. Is there such thing as purified lust? I really don't know.
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Alex,
I am not sure that anything I say will provide comfort but, like many men, I too have struggled with that problem since I was quite young. Before I even hit puberty I was looking at pictures of semi-clad women and fantasizing about their bodies. When poppa placed me in the body of Christ at the age of 24, I received temporary freedom from the problem but it did not last all that long. I can remember when I gave in the first time after not having done so for months, I was so overwhelmed with guilt, I nearly could not sit through a full church service. I was a mess. I just knew that I was done for and that I had let Christ and The Father down and I would be cast into the lake of fire and erased from the memory of all I know and love. I prayed, I fasted, I begged The Father to rip this foul thing from my life. Many of the things that others have said, I processed through my mind. I asked The Father to take away my desire because it is better that I go without rather then not enter into the kingdom.
We know that sin is never the right thing to do. It is death, plain and simple. We should never get comfortable with the failure that are those things. I will say though that throughout this entire process, The Father has been talking to me about mercy, grace, peace and compassion. He has been talking to me about how the process begun at the foundation of the world will end with freedom from sin and death for all mankind. He has been talking about the fact that when He placed me into the body of Christ and gave me His spirit, He sealed me and gauranteed completion of the work that He began through Christ, and He will not end that process until it is complete. He has spoken righteousness into us. He has spoken righteousness into us. No one that is truly in this relationship with The Father through Jesus Christ will go on sinning forever, He won't let us, but that does not mean we will see victory over every single thing in this flesh. Does that mean that we rejoice in our sins? Paul speaks to that. We rejoice in the knowledge that our relationship with The Father is not based on us, our actions or lack thereof but our freedom, our relationship, the blessings of life are ours because The Creator of all things has said it is so. Christ is the evidence of that.
The Adversary uses our "issues" against us, tries to create doubt and anguish in our heart. For years I have wrestled with that same nonsense but Poppa being Poppa has shown me through a relationship that I have been in things I was not able to grasp before. He loves us, He has forgiven us, He will perfect us, He will raise us from the dead and we will dwell, we do now dwell in eternity. Rejoice in the fact that this is not dependant on you or your efforts.
As they say in the vernacular, Pop's got this, no doubt!
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So God gave men raging hormones, but if someone beautiful goes walking by us we are only to admire what's she wearing?? It's almost impossible to differentiate between physical attraction and lust.
I disagree Rob.
You can admire the beauty of many things in this creation without desiring to stick your "you know what" in them.
Perhaps a more relavent example;
If you have a teenage or young adult daughter or if a man does have a beautiful daughter, does he not recognize her beauty WITHOUT desiring her in bed? I think we can say many a fathers have had beautiful daughters and never desired them in any such manor yet still able to recognize their beauty. Though we all know the circumstances or have heard of them in the news were this infraction was made upon a daughter by her father.
I obviously do not have a daughter of my own so I suppose I can't be 100% certain of how a father would see her adult daughter once she is all grown in her beauty but I am assuming that he sees her through the eyes of love while recognizing her beauty and not through the eyes of lust.
So is it possible? Yes It is, it just takes a spiritual giant (and not one on his own accord) to be able to overcome the lust and pulls of the flesh when it is sinful.
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Ok seriously. We eat when we are hungry. If we don't eat one day the next we will need the food even more. As we age, we find that we don't need to eat as much. Is it really all about pleasure or is our survival the main part of the equation? Isn't prostate cancer more likely when we do not clean ourselves out physically? How long is a person going to go before they can no longer avoid this act? Of course it depends on age and whether the person is sexually active. . . . with his wife, hopefully. Young men are not able to overcome this unless they have a genetic condition preventing this need. Period!! So, we have a certain amount of control over our thoughts, (with God's guidence). But this need is going to have to be fullfilled. Somehow. But it cannot be met without lust. Can't be done. Is there such thing as purified lust? I really don't know.
I believe musicman, this is why a man marries. So that he may fulfill his physical needs without disregard of His Father's commandments.
I disagree with young men not being able to overcome this without a genetic condition and I wish I could prove it to you by saying I am one of those men but I cannot and not because I have a genetic condition but rather because I'm still fighting this battle. I can assure you though the desire is very strong in me to want to stop and I have faith in God, with His time, I will overcome this. Perhaps in my 30's so I can still qualify as having been young enough and not having a genetic disorder. :P
I agree that the act of masturbation or sexual intercourse cannot be fulfilled without lust but I don't think any of us would argue this. I believe though that we can stop lusting after another man's wife or lusting in our minds every time we see a beautiful girl or stop masturbating to porn by the grace of God. I believe that this outlet that we all need is meant to be fulfilled by a wife. In this case, sex with your wife to my understanding does not equate to breaking God's spiritual law because she is your wife.. so it's okay to desire her and lust after her otherwise how would you have sex? lol
So what I'm saying is God made a way out for our desires and needs, a way that in His eyes is just and lawful.
Now perhaps there is a man among us who would like to step up and say He has done these acts without lusting? And how did that turn out for you? lol........ i'm sure this would be a hilarious conversation if it ever followed.
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Alex, with respect, I might have had a bit more to share, but I don't want to engage you in a hilarious conversation.
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Alex, with respect, I might have had a bit more to share, but I don't want to engage you in a hilarious conversation.
O_O Please... feel free to entertain me! xD
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No.
But I'll ask you a question. What if you had a son (or were asked by a single mother to talk to her son)...what would you say to him from your own experience?
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Hi Alex just wanted to add to all the other great responses. This is something I can relate to cause I've also struggled with this quit a bit.
Negative thinking can really mess you up, so try to think of all the good things God has done for you.
Just gonna make a few comments from your post.
i'm still struggling like crazy and I feel like it's driving a HUGE WEDGE between me and our Lord.
Dont you believe it Alex. :)
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
if i were GOd, i'd be pretty sick of me right about now.
Aren't you glad God is not a man? God is very patient with us, so try to be patient with God.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance.
So while He is patient with you take the opportunity to do the right thing, one day at a time.
2Pe 3:15 Also, regard the patience of our Lord as an opportunity for salvation, just as our dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you.
I'm mad at paul for saying HE was the worst sinner because if he met me he might rethink that statement. I Mean paul didn't have to deal with easy access to pornography?! Sure.. he had raging hormones maybe at some point but i feel like it's far worse for me then it was for him -.-
Not to belittle your struggles, but I dont think you could hold a candle to Paul sins. And because Paul was truly the worst sinner ever, how much easier is it for God save you?
1Ti 1:16 But I obtained mercy for the reason that in me, as the foremost [of sinners], Jesus Christ might show forth and display all His perfect long-suffering and patience for an example to [encourage] those who would thereafter believe on Him for [the gaining of] eternal life.
Jas 5:7 Therefore, brothers, be patient until the Lord's coming. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth and is patient with it until it receives the early and the late rains.
Jas 5:8 You also must be patient. Strengthen your hearts, because the Lord's coming is near.
There's that patience thing again. ;)
Sincerely hope this helps and encourages you, cause your post and everyone else' has done the same for me. Thanks for posting it, that took a lot of guts young bro.
Hello G.
Thanks for sharing. I really enjoyed that verse in peter and it was exactly what I needed to hear at this time. Well the part about the "opportunity for salvation." I read your post a few days ago but I came back to it looking for some encouragement. It has helped me greatly.
No guts my friend, just the desire for people to see me for the imperfect human I am. I hate appearing as a hypocrite to those around me so I like to be honest about these things. I don't want to appear.
God bless,
Alex
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How to be righteous with hormones:
This is a tough one and most would feel helpless but I have come up with a seven step. .. .excuse me, 12 step. . . . ahhh,?? let's just say that there may be thousands of steps when we are through.
Music Man's infinate step program to escape lust and self gratification.
OK, #1 Get married to a sexually hungry (only for you of course) woman (and it goes both ways so women just substitute everything I say with the opposite sex).
Done!!
Oh, if you are too young to legally marry (or are frightened that you may not marry the right woman) then you better keep reading.
1. Wake up every morning earlier than you want to so that you will feel tired and thinking more about sleep then lust. (We all know what good nights of sleep do to our hormones).
2. Before eating breakfast or even showering, do 100 jumping jacks. This will take your mind off of lust.
3. When going to school, wear dark shades so that you won't see all of the young girls wearing their skimpy tights that their parents tell them will make them popular.
4. Watch your step because you almost ran into somebody because you can barely see.
5. Go to first class and think about baseball, even during instruction because you probably won't be able to keep your thoughts pure with the way your hormones are racing. Ask several times to use the bathroom so you can go do pushups and situps.
6. Skip PE because that's where all of the girls wear those shorts and the sun will cause your shades to give you vision.
7. Go to band rehearsal and stick your head inside tuba bell and tell friend to blast really loud to scramble your brain. This adrenaline blast will get your mind off of lustful visions, . . . . for about 15 minutes.
8. Don't skip lunch because believe it or not, the food is so gross that even the cuttest model will seem sub par in the face of the rancid smell.
9. Try to get through to end of school day without going insane.
10. Go home and do not turn on TV. The brain is too inactive when watching TV and that means something will have to replace the nothing.
11. Try to do homework.
12. When you can't, do some more exercise.
Then read some. ...oops gotta do more pushups.
Go to bed exhausted and wake up the same the next morning.
13. Do all of this for an entire week
Week number 2
14. Do everything from the previous week exactly the same,?? except take more exercise breaks because what worked the week prior, may just not work again.
15. Drop band and join the football team, even if you weigh 110 pounds.
16. Pain often works to eliminate lust.
17. Talk tough to the biggest and meanest linemen.
18. You will not feel lust. .. until your wounds heal.
19. You won't get into college because you were never able to study in highschool anyway. And college is where you would have the biggest problem controlling your hormones anyway.
I hope this has been helpful. Perhaps not.
OK youngons, let's get pure.
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lol musicman I appreciate your sense of humor and for allowing me to laugh along with you.
I don't think there is any substitute for the power of the Spirit in all this. Perhaps that's the take home message of your routine.
To Dave:
I'm not ignoring you but can you be more specific. What would I tell the young boy? As in if he asked me about masturbation? IF he asked me about women? pornography? Lust? All of the above?
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Take your pick, Alex. It's your thread. Whatever it is YOU are asking about will be fine.
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No.
But I'll ask you a question. What if you had a son (or were asked by a single mother to talk to her son)...what would you say to him from your own experience?
Hmm, this is very difficult. What I would tell them, where I'm at now.
I'd tell them that, no matter how hard you try you'll always be overcome by the pulls of the flesh. There is absolutely nothing in you, absolutely zero power in your own self that will give you the ability to over come this.
Rev 13:4-7 "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."
I'd tell this person that despite being made subject to vanity not willingly but by reason of Him, that God is faithful and He will finish His good works that He has begun in you. That in His time, you will be given power over this beast. So don't discourage now, don't give up. Confess your sins to God and He is faithful. He won't abandon you, even when you've perhaps given up on yourself and think He's given up on you.
Most of all I would tell him, don't lose hope. God is for you and with you even if you might see the monster inside of you now clearer than ever before, God saw this beast all along. He knew the beast was there but before you realized it, you saw God's goodness and His grand love for you so why do you now suddenly doubt this love? Did He not love you and call you and move and work in you when the beast was there before you realized it? So then why do you doubt now that He will continue in you? What, because now you're aware of your condition? How much more now will God continue in you, than before, now that he has brought you this far? Much more! He will carry you all the way through because He is faithful and good and His love endures forever. Because He see's you for who you will be in Him, He see's so much more than the carnal flesh that haunts you now.
Have patience, turn to Him and in time you will see His grace abound in you and your cup will over flow.
That's probably what I'd tell him and that there is none good, there is none perfect but God so do not think you are the only one who struggles with this sin or that you are alone in it all. Far from it and your desire for change is but the beginning of wondrous things to come.
It's probably what i'd tell myself, if I could believe myself.
Edit: I think I just told myself, what I needed to hear..... I'm not sure if that was your intention dave but if it was, you are a man of genius.
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Brother......this is a a human condition for sure....and not just for men.....as embarrassing as it is selfish.....it is enjoy the benefits of sex with out even having a partner! and suicide would up there with that level of selfishness imo.....however....my opinions on the subject may or may not have much weight....having struggled with this as I am about to turn 44....for most of my life....I believe i was about 10 or s0 when I began to realize the pleasure and release of sexual tension this would give me.....and I too would do it daily......well as a young man....I find today.....once a week....and a few times a month is average......the body has not the same zest for it but my mind is in overdrive all too often......the sorrow I would feel after doing it and or the thoughts I had while doing this or even the pictures and or videos and items I would use while involved.....made me feel I was never gonna overcome and or enjoyed this poison so much that I would never let go.....in fact married men confide in me that there is no answer to it......but having an outlet sure seemed like a good idea to me! Paul said it would be better to marry then to burn with passion......yet no one gets married burning after all do they? lol well not in my church congregation they did not for sure.....I do not have the answer and make things more of a challenge......Christ tells us not even to look at married woman with lust! this makes me a complete failure....cuz that is the part I fall into much more often then masturbation......and now I ask well Lord....what if the woman is not married? Can I do it then?! you see my mind? lol I want to justify my actions.....and make my lack of self control not sinful....fact is anything done apart from faith is sin. That said.....I know of no man that has over come this lust or sin. I know boasted of his single life....and I knew a man who once said for 20+ years he never masturbated....but lets see....Christ said if you even look at the woman with lust you have committed fornication and or adultry.....the church of course agrees and says further that Christ wants us to but off are right hand and gouge out our eye that is the agent used to promote this sin!!!! wow.....this scared the tar out of me to say the least......I do that Christ has paid for our sins.....the past....the present and future included....and this not only keeps my sanity but empowers me to overcome all sins....or things the church or myself or our God himself would see and know is sin......that gives me peace....even if a I fail......this topic is taboo....and few men....as well as fewer women discuss it with any degree of confidence....and I would say it is the most indulged in activity in human existence! I feel bad often after I do it.....and other times I don't feel bad.....I do wish I had a partner to share my sexuality with but that too is up to the Lord....just remember that all sin has been paid for! Let no one deceive you.....some men and women have stronger faith and or less of a struggle with sin....or types of sin.....your strength and or weaknesses are the way the enemy may accuse.....point the finger....and catch you on the law....promises.....vows....and things like "I will never do it again" we are merely setting ourselves up to fail....as my mother used to tell me......"hang a yet on that never statement" she would say you have not done it yet....but there is not boasting....especially not in the flesh....there is not confidence in the flesh.....and all the glory is the Fathers......I pray you find strength to stay at peace....while the storm and flesh of life decays and fails.....your faith is of greater value than gold.....and what pleases our Father.....if we are going to boast....let it be of our weakness!!! WOW Paul was right.....boast of your weakness so the power of Christ can rest upon you....this is how I overcome and not beat myself up with sin.....and in particular masturbation.....the sin that church says is evil.....we are after all sexual beings......find a mate......and be sexual....that is my answer and my long words in 2 cents LOL
thy will be done....
Dear friend,
Your paragraphs are difficult to read with all the [....]
I say this with the grandest of affection, but please try and use the "enter" key in the future. >.> I hope that didn't come off to harsh, it was not my intention! Please don't take it that way!
That being said, thank you for sharing your testimony with me! I know it's very personal and well, I suppose, I would rather people see me for what I am and know that they don't have any false idea's about me than them thinking I'm someone I am not. I guess that's what gives me the ability to be rather bold on such a taboo topic. That and i'm in my 20's so I think most people know what a 20 year old is going through whether he admits or not so I might as well just admit it. xD
I suppose there is some comfort in knowing that as we age, our hormones are as active and so our desires dwindle but I was really hoping not to have to wait another 20-30 years before this lust, this sin, begins to fade in me. If that is how the Lord has it planned than I guess there isn't much I can do or say about it but that doesn't mean the desire for it to be gone will ever fade either.
I believe though that God can in time, if He wants, reign in this beast before I endure many long years and I do believe that this desire to want to stop sinning this way is the first step in the right direction. Some people don't think shame or feeling bad about what we have done is a positive thing or that it is how God want's us to feel when we desire strongly to be done with a sin yet we continue doing it but I think it is. I believe, like ray put it, that you get to a point where thinking about it makes you literally sick to your stomach and makes you want to throw up. I don't think that's a negative at all, that just shows how strong your desire to not want to commit this sin really is but if you keep thinking it's okay and that "God has forgiven me" and ill just keep on sinning along, no biggie, it's not like I can overcome on it so why bother, than you'll never overcome the sin because you're telling yourself its okay and it's not! It's not okay and we shouldn't be teaching ourselves that is! Even if God hasn't given us the power to overcome it! But again, we can't overcome it so what then, should we throw in the towel? Pff, you go ahead, ill keep going this way!
Btw, this isn't necessarily directed towards you, I'm just kind of ranting out loud with my thoughts.. Hope you don't mind! :)
Well again, thank you for engaging me in this discussion and sharing your personal story. I do appreciate it. Hopefully we can find solace and comfort and encouragement from one another to continue enduring forward and perhaps one day soon, the Lord will throw out this beast from His temple! ;)
God bless,
Alex
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Can't have it both ways, can we. Either we believe God's Word (taught by Ray) that there is no such thing as free will or uncaused choice, or we deep down believe we have the power to make ourselves pure and holy.
Even God's instruction through Paul to have the mind of Christ continues that we must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling it is God who works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure.
And it is only God Who will bring us to the point when we hate the sin.
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One thing that is beginning to bug me are the statements that as we get older God takes away our lusts as we get old and decrepit. And that is supposed to be a good thing.
Count me out! I don't think God made a mistake. He made men to desire women. I love women. I find them endlessly fascinating and desirable.
I have had to learn over the years not to let my tongue hang out and drool all over myself when I see and meet women. I have found women don't find that attractive.
If I ever wake up and no longer have a desire for women, if I can only admire their eyes or character, then please God, be merciful to me, and have someone put two bullets in my head. God, in my opinion, women were the best thing you made. Thanks.
Do you drool over 5 ft, 320 lb. women? Do you find them fascinating? If not then that is lust and not admiration.
Too many men worship women (not consciously). And that is not a good thing.
But there is something going on with the relationship between men and women. Some sort of lesson we will take with us in the next life. Which are a shadow of things to come... Col 2:17
"Hither! I shall be showing you the bride, the wife of the Lambkin." Rev 21:9
Ray once told me he suspects there will be something like the lust we feel for women in the next life, but much more intense and not evil.
But for now we need to at least try to control ourselves. When we fail, try again.
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Just try not to wallow in it John.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr2ZERIFL4U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr2ZERIFL4U)
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:)
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Y'all are a hoot! lilitalienboi16 thank you for your input brother......I do the .....on purpose.....its my style.....ha ha ha and yes I realize it is like talking to someone speaking another language and or does not use the English words and sentence structure as well as periods commas and run ons.......but you did benefit from it.....at least I think..... :) I used to use capital letters for every word and do you remember cursive writting? LOL that went over big huh? no one writes.....unless we give our signature.....I read and heard that first 5 books of the Bible the Talmud was all one word! no spaces.....no structure for writing....talk about not obeying the rules of the language! ha ha ha ha ha....it was assumed where the spaces were to be....and stream of thought......do they end with periods? commas do they separate ideas? and paragraphs? verses in the bible? LOL nonsense.....no such thing as chapter and verse when they were written.....I do apologize for my street or as I like to call it grocery store grasp of words and language.....sometimes I go back and read my words and wonder what in the name of all get out am I trying to say? LOL I am a fool....and but a fool for Christ.....if you benefit any....amen....most times I think my words are me preaching to myself and very rarely from the foolishness of preaching will someone be reached.....but it is his will......this topic has much debate even among believers and those who could care less about spiritual life......as in all things in life....moderation and the filter of balance the tree of good and evil.......LOL maybe you don't follow this line of thinking....after all I am bother that the tree was not two trees......good and evil in the same stinking tree? why? LOL thy will be done......(I know the answer now but its like talking another language to explain it or show it in words to others)
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Hi Alex,
It's a struggle that Men everywhere and probably some Women have experienced throughout their lives, God created Testosterone and it depends on the individual person as to how much is secreted. Unless God has planned to remove this desire and when is unknown to Humans. Since none of Us don't have Free Will or Free Moral Agency, We won't & can't overcome this practice through Our own Will & power. I liken this desire to masturbate as a type of addiction that gives immediate physical & sensual gratification that sort of gives a temporary "high," because it feels good. Also, under stress or boredom, it's probably easier to succumb to.
There are some Scriptures that seem to imply that it should be avoided, but these Scriptures are not explicitly clear as to Masturbation. Read Below !
Col 3:5 Mortify(Deaden) therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Mortify means: G3499
νεκρόω
nekroō
nek-ro'-o
From G3498; to deaden, that is, (figuratively) to subdue: - be dead, mortify.
Uncleanness means: akatharsia
ak-ath-ar-see'-ah
From G169; impurity (the quality), physically or morally: - uncleanness.
1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
1Th 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
1Th 4:5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
Concupiscence means: epithumia
ep-ee-thoo-mee'-ah
From G1937; a longing (especially for what is forbidden): - concupiscence, desire, lust (after).
Vessel means: skeuos
skyoo'-os
Of uncertain affinity; a vessel, implement, equipment or apparatus (literally or figuratively [specifically a wife as contributing to the usefulness of the husband]): - goods, sail, stuff, vessel.
Of course it could be argued that the above Scriptures don't specifically apply to Self Abuse or Masturbation, but they might indirectly apply. Also, I've had weakness in this area and let Me assure that if this desire is strong, Marriage doesn't necessarily solve the problem. Only the hating of this desire and it's removal from Our Carnal Mind under God's control will eliminate this practice. The fact that this practice bothers your conscience is a plus or positive note.
Below, I included an Email from a Friend who visits the Forum as a Guest that might aid in encouraging you, hope it helps. This individual is sincere in their message. Read below in blue !
Hi Alex,
God impressed it on me to offer you some encouragement along with those that have already answered. Here are some verses to consider when it comes to sin.
Jeremiah 17:5-6 (NLT)
(5) This is what the LORD says: “Cursed are those who put their trust in mere humans, who rely on human strength and turn their hearts away from the LORD.
(6) They are like stunted shrubs in the desert, with no hope for the future. They will live in the barren wilderness, in an uninhabited salty land.
Philippians 3:3 (NLT)
(3)...We rely on what Christ Jesus has done for us. We put no confidence in human effort,
John 15:5 (NLT)
"Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For without me you can do nothing.
To be completely honest, you will not find the strength to overcome this in yourself. You can do nothing as Christ Himself said. The self can do nothing righteous, nothing good, and nothing pleasing to God. Even Ray once said, you will not stop sinning until God has determined that you will. Is that a license to rejoice in sin? No, of course not. However, it is an honest and humble acknowledgment of what you (and the rest of us) really are – dust. What strength does dust have? None.
Paul wrote in Romans 6:23 (NLT):
(23) For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.
Notice that salvation is a gift that we are given – meaning that we do nothing to earn it. If we had earned it, then it would be a payment, not a gift. This is a further witness.
Scripture says that man's righteousness is a pile of filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6, NLT):
(6) We are all infected and impure with sin. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall, and our sins sweep us away like the wind.
If we are honest, a pile of filthy rags would be an improvement because that is when we are at our human best. How often are we truly even acting at that level?
Notice what the Lord said next through Jeremiah 17:7-8 (NLT):
(7) But blessed are those who trust in the LORD and have made the LORD their hope and confidence.
(8) They are like trees planted along a riverbank, with roots that reach deep into the water. Such trees are not bothered by the heat or worried by long months of drought. Their leaves stay green, and they never stop producing fruit.
The passage where Christ walks on the water comes to mind. Peter was able to walk on the water as long as he remained focused on Christ. It was when he started looking/focusing on the storm and the waves (the troubles in life) that he began to sink.
Here's another passage to consider – Romans 8:20-23 (NLT)
(20) Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse. But with eager hope,
(21) the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God’s children in glorious freedom from death and decay.
(22) For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
(23) And we believers also groan, even though we have the Holy Spirit within us as a foretaste of future glory, for we long for our bodies to be released from sin and suffering. We, too, wait with eager hope for the day when God will give us our full rights as his adopted children, including the new bodies he has promised us.
The Apostle John summed it up quite nicely when he was inspired to state:
1 John 1:8 (NLT)
(8) If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth.
Paul provided the second witness to this in Romans 7:14-25 (NLT):
(14) So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin.
(15) I don’t really understand myself, for I want to do what is right, but I don’t do it. Instead, I do what I hate.
(16) But if I know that what I am doing is wrong, this shows that I agree that the law is good.
(17) So I am not the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.
(18) And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can’t.
(19) I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway.
(20) But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.
(21) I have discovered this principle of life—that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong.
(22) I love God’s law with all my heart.
(23) But there is another power within me that is at war with my mind. This power makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me.
(24) Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death?
(25) Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.
Remember the Lord's promise, given through Isaiah 1:18 (NLT):
(18) "Come now, let's settle this," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, I will make them as white as snow. Though they are red like crimson, I will make them as white as wool.
As well as Psalm 103:13-14 (NLT):
(13) The LORD is like a father to his children, tender and compassionate to those who fear him.
(14) For he knows how weak we are; he remembers we are only dust.
Hopefully these verses encourage and uplift you. May God wrap you in His loving and faithful arms.
In Him,
John
Hope this helped, Samson.
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it helped me samson (and john). thank you for posting these scriptures.
claudia
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Yes, thanks for these wonderful Scriptures Sampson, it helped me a lot too. I tend to reply to provocation and disrespect in a most irritable and angry way. I've been struggling with this for a while now, but God is merciful and I am changing..... at His pace 8) but changing I am!!!
God Bless
Jingle
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well I am going to step in here with another point because i guess i think differently. First off sex is a great thing in marriage. Now if its between sex and masturbation well hands down sex but ... why is masturbation a sin? where does it talk about it in the Bible? your married you enjoy your spouse, right so you masturbate? problem? your single you don't have a partner you masturbate so? you don't go out and get some. sounds better to me. Why do we put such damnable laws on natural things of life. Isn't masturbation helpful not to get into a situation with another person before marriage? It just seems wrong to me to restrict yourself to such a degree as this. but I am not talking about porn that is just sexual abuse as is prostitution. addiction to anything is the real problem not masturbation. addiction is another problem
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Personally for me....what was going on inside my mind while I masturbated.....or the ways I did it....and or toys used....or pictures....and videos were a deeper problem of the heart. Which of the commandments can no one be convicted of? Think about this for a bit. The 10th commandment: You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's. This is to say......who can know what you are thinking about? It is in the heart....the mind of a human that we do not convict crimes, or do we? Pre meditated murder is a higher offense than cold blooded murder-in the heat of the moment. Because you took time to plan it out. Just my 2 cents. While Masturbation is not strictly a law. There is thought and action behind it. Most say.....I am not hurting anyone else or involving anyone else, so why is it wrong? The thoughts that are in my head are worthy of conviction. I have such twisted fantasies that inspire me to get an erection and or act out on them to the point of ejaculation. I am not proud of them. I think I have never reached orgasm with no thoughts or other inspired actions, as said before. Pictures, videos, toys, thoughts, or other stimulation. Sex if consensual does not break any laws provided the circumstances. In one country you must be 21 and Married, others 13 is lawful. In the middle east in certain areas one can be as young 3 to be be throed and can be 9 when sexual relations are permitted. Most of us will say these are sick. Jesus expressly said that you could not have sex with a married woman. What about a Woman lusting for a man? or a a married man? those subjects were not covered either. The fact is a man could have many wives....and any woman he slept with, was considered his wife.....as per the covenant with God. When a woman is a virgin she bleeds upon her first time, thus covering her and the man with blood. Think this is more of what our Father ensued for marriage than just legal papers and a ceremony. Yet if a woman was married, you could not take her as your wife, and Christ said do not even lust and or look at her that way! This agrees with the 10th Commandment thy shall not covet. How do you know what is a person's thoughts if they do not act them out of confess them? What gives me peace above all this is the fact that we are being made into his image. A Spiritual man and the brother and sister of Christ! We would not know what evil was without good. My words are many here. Still I can not say with any clarity that Masturbation is a sin. But anything not done in faith is sin. So it is possible. And with the wrong thoughts and or circumstances too. The enemy and mankind are able to corrupt wholesome things that are created by the pure Father. Of the 600+ rules and regulations in the book of Leviticus, yes there are more than 10 commandments! LOL I am sure we can find a way to convict any human if we dig into ones closet and search for skeletons and sin! just more of my 2 cents.
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Read St. Augustine books and you will know how these philosophy was develop in the Christian Church. Christian power play
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The fact that you admit to fornicating on a open forum is possibly the start of your deliverance - the loathing comes to all of us whatever the lust -
and this is from God
Ian
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The fact that you admit to fornicating on a open forum is possibly the start of your deliverance - the loathing comes to all of us whatever the lust -
and this is from God
Ian
Thank you Ian,
I agree that seeing the beast for who and what he is comes from God. I admitted long ago to this sin but I am still plagued by it to this day. Perhaps I shall suffer like the vast majority of men well into my old age before this beast is relinquished.
Samson,
I know I thanked you over facebook for your post and your friends but I Just wanted to formally say it here again. A beautiful post indeed.
Love,
Alex
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Alex ,Brother Now is the time ,now is the day.. I don't want to rehash some of the advice Lets wait and see etc is not what the word tells us.... this is a major hindrance this is lust of the flesh which by biblical definition is carnal and is not subject to the spirit nor can it be, it is hostile to God, so I would re evaluate and quickly get into line
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. emphasis mine
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God -
Let me quickly say I have had tremendous financial trials of late and I found a word - seek 1st his kingdom and his righteousness and all these things,house car etc will be added, I thought this is a joke initially anyway, i started earnestly seeking, all is of God he causes me to understand his word so I start seeking [seeking is not finding btw] Financially nothing is happening but I do detect a changing Ian and I believe as the foundation of this Temple is strengthened by doing things Gods way this foundation will be able to hold up much of the new rooms which God will add but if the foundation is weak the extensions are not possible as the inspector will not allow further building until the elementry sins are dealt with.
Listen this may sound crude but " can you imagine our God involved in fornication"....that alone, that statement will shake that sin upsidedown my friend .... and so it is with all carnality thinking - Imagine ...
He is building his temple in you, I agree God does not need assistance especially carnal based assistance but he also does not bring to the point of delivery and not give birth, obey his instruction, you can, it is written obedience is better than sacrifice so we must be well placed to obey otherwise our conscience must be seared -
I heard Ray once speaking on stealing he simply said DONT DO IT ...
Ian
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Alex ,Brother Now is the time ,now is the day.. I don't want to rehash some of the advice Lets wait and see etc is not what the word tells us.... this is a major hindrance this is lust of the flesh which by biblical definition is carnal and is not subject to the spirit nor can it be, it is hostile to God, so I would re evaluate and quickly get into line
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. emphasis mine
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God -
Let me quickly say I have had tremendous financial trials of late and I found a word - seek 1st his kingdom and his righteousness and all these things,house car etc will be added, I thought this is a joke initially anyway, i started earnestly seeking, all is of God he causes me to understand his word so I start seeking [seeking is not finding btw] Financially nothing is happening but I do detect a changing Ian and I believe as the foundation of this Temple is strengthened by doing things Gods way this foundation will be able to hold up much of the new rooms which God will add but if the foundation is weak the extensions are not possible as the inspector will not allow further building until the elementry sins are dealt with.
Listen this may sound crude but " can you imagine our God involved in fornication"....that alone, that statement will shake that sin upsidedown my friend .... and so it is with all carnality thinking - Imagine ...
He is building his temple in you, I agree God does not need assistance especially carnal based assistance but he also does not bring to the point of delivery and not give birth, obey his instruction, you can, it is written obedience is better than sacrifice so we must be well placed to obey otherwise our conscience must be seared -
I heard Ray once speaking on stealing he simply said DONT DO IT ...
Ian
Dear Ian,
I agree that we mustn't be lazy, but we must also understand that it takes spiritual strength to overcome such an adversary as the beast, a strength not found within men.
Revelation 13:7 "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."
This saint makes war but he is overcome each and every time. There is no good in me and no power in me that has proven itself to be sufficient against such an adversary.
Weakness is all that abounds here but it is in weakness that the Lord shines forth with all power and majesty.
Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
I pray every single day the Lord deliver me from bondage, from the vanity I have been subject to. I struggle everyday to seek the kingdom with my whole heart but alas I am carnal and sold under sin.
In the Lord's time, if it be His plan for me in this life to overcome this sin than I shall but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that if I am ever given refuge from this beast that plagues me that it shall have been by His power and His spirit and none of my own. For what have you, that you did not recieve? Nothing Lord... nothing. I am as all men, most wretched, desperate, naked before thee as all men. Cloth me with thy garments Lord, for mine are nothing but filthy rags.
I could care less for a house, a car, or anything of wordly value including riches and fame. The most I want out of my career is a place where the love of the Lord and His light may shine unto all men, that I may grow in Him, ever increasing in Him and that I may provide for a wife and family some day making enough money that if my wife would rather not work that she feel not pressured into work due to financial struggles. Oh and maybe just enough to take a vacation every now and then but other than that, It is all vanity to me.
Sorry to hear though about your financial struggles.
Indeed, obedience is key but it too, as all good things comes from the Father above.
God bless,
Alex
P.S.I wouldn't consider sexual urges, masturbation and adultry in your heart (as Jesus would have labeled it) an "elementary sin" though I suppose I don't know what I would consider as elementary. Regardless, this is perhaps one of the greatest sins in a man's life (and probably many women) to overcome so I don't really like the term "elementary." Is that even biblical? Is one sin worse than the other? That's probably for another topic.
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Alex - a question and i may have missed this as i haven't read this whole thread. Do you want to stay celibate for the rest of your life? Do you believe that is your calling?
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Hi Alex - I've been following this thread - not because I am an older man or have an interest in scorn (porn)n- but because I am a hu-man - nay wo-man who loves love too
A scripture that comes to mind is Genesis 2:18: The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."
Not sure that you see that as an answer to what your needs are - would you kill, steal or destroy to get that urge met?
Lust of the flesh? No I think you have a desire for your heart
x
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Looking back on this thread and having thought about for weeks now, I just want to make some observations.
First, Hayley just gave you a different way of looking at this thing. I think that's valuable.
Second, of all the comments made, the best in my opinion came from Marques who got it from Ray. Are you 100% sure you are ashamed of this?
Third, there's not a kid or young adult that gets through adolescence or young adulthood without succumbing to this curiosity, lust and release. And as best I've read these comments, there isn't an 'older man' who isn't still trying to flee this youthful lust. If any of us had a sure-fire 'method' to save you from the way God has created almost all of us, then I think you would have heard of it by now.
Since none of us has, then please don't ask us to behave like Pharisees and tell you to do something that 'we' don't or can't (or didn't or couldn't at your age).
If this (especially masturbation) was the worst sin possiible, then I'm at a loss to explain why it isn't more clearly spelled out in scripture. No doubt it is a challenge both to our flesh and to our spirits, and to our FAITH, most of all. But I think to "think" wrongly about it does more damage than the act itself. That's MY testimony. We are designed to fail, to look to God for all of our salvations, and to be humbled. Are you 100% sure you are 'humbled' by this? I spent considerable time in self-condemnation for my inablity to change my leopard spots and ethiopian skin. That's not faith. Whatever it IS, it's not faith.
Do the best you can. Confess your sins as they happen. Don't add to your sins faithlessness or pride (my sin is greater than God's forgiveness--who's is?-- or my effort is greater than God's sovereignty). This will end when you have learned every necessary lesson from it. Fear Him that He does not require too much of you. Learn them as quickly as you can.
I'm going to lock the thread at this point, something we've considered weeks ago. It's been a good one and I'm thankful for everyone's spirit in answering.