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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: cosmo on May 17, 2008, 09:23:39 AM
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Hi Guys,
What's the general view point on the 'Florida Revival?
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Hi
I have been reading quite a lot about it recently on other forums and it seems to be causing quite a stir. Only today it has been featured in my local paper, which has a weekly 'religious' section. One of our local pastors has been , so it has probably arrived on my door step.
I have looked on Bentley's site, and I have read an account of an experience he had where he met the apostle Paul and visited his home in heaven. This of course cannot be true as we know the Paul is still dead awaiting resurrection, and there are supposed manifestations of gold dust and encounters with angels. I personally don't trust it.
Col 2:18-19
Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind,
Col 2:19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
What about revivals anyway ? where do they fit into the overall scheme of things ?
We had revival here in Wales 1904 ,and in the Hebrides in the fifties , were they genuine manifestations of God. or were they false signs deceiving many.
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Hi! Everybody
No! Not another one of those revival gimmicks? We're not going to be put through another religious obscenity of falling on one's back and howling like a dog, are we? Not another display of blasphemous cacoethes, have we not had enough of them?
When are these Babylonian freaks going to learn to read their Bibles and get rid of the African Voodoo practices? Lord help us from these clowns.
God bless.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy. "The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love." 1Jn.4:8
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:DRoy don't you know you are supposed to et the pastor read the bible and then tell you what it says? It's not for us mere mortals to understand so why bother ::)?
Yes, those people are all deceived.
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:DRoy don't you know you are supposed to et the pastor read the bible and then tell you what it says? It's not for us mere mortals to understand so why bother ::)?
Yes, those people are all deceived.
Hi! KristaD
We are mere mortals but when we have Christ abiding within us then we know how to distinguish the good from the bad trees by the fruits they produce. Any pastor, be he the pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury, matters not, if he believes in such blasphemies as hell, trinity or free-will then his fruit is bad and not to be believed.
These revivalist will wax from bad to worse and the signs they perform will deceive the many, and they will continue to deceive as they have done on several occasions in the past and faded out just as quick as they entered.
I stick with the Word of God and nothing else. Oh yes the Bible does mention them and also gives a stern warning against following them. I obey the Word of God.
God bless and thank you for your response.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy Uk "The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love." 1Jn.4:8
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Hi
What about revivals anyway ? where do they fit into the overall scheme of things ?
We had revival here in Wales 1904 ,and in the Hebrides in the fifties , were they genuine manifestations of God. or were they false signs deceiving many.
I'm still wondering if anyone has any thoughts about my question. I'm not particularly wanting to focus on what's going on in Lakeland. However there does seem to be revivals from time to time that appear to create a genuine God consciousness within a wider community. In wales apparently, pubs (bars) closed down and the local magistrate courts sat less often ,due to the dramatic decrease in crime.I don't believe in a great end time revival particularly and I know people can make an idol out of it, but I am curious to understand the phenomenom .
cheers
Dave
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:D Roy, honey, I was KIDDING!! Why on earth would anyone here honestly say something like that and mean it? Sarcasm man, sarcasm. ;D Thanks for getting my name right this time ;).
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Hi Dave,
What about revivals anyway ? where do they fit into the overall scheme of things ?
A revival is merely a function of the church. God and His Holy Spirit is not in the church, Satan is.
Here is an excerpt from the Lake of fire part 10, 'The Synagogue of Satan.'
http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html --------------------
THE THRONE OF SATAN THE DEVIL ALSO LOCATED
Now then, as the false apostles, and lying Jews, and synagogue of Satan are all located in the Church, where do you suppose we would find Satan’s throne, and Satan’s dwelling place to be located? Yes, that’s right: In the Church. Here is the Scriptural proof found in the messages to the church at Smyrna and Pergamos:
"Fear none of those things which you shall suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison…" (Rev. 2:10).
"I know your works and where you dwell, even where [the same place where] Satan’s seat [Greek: throne] is… were Satan [also] dwells" (Rev. 2:13).
Satan cannot imprison members of the Church unless Satan is in the Church. His throne is in the Church. His dwelling place is in the Church.. His synagogue is in the Church.
And think not that Satan merely makes an occasional visit to the Church. No, Satan is permanently in the Church until God removes him. The Greek word from which the translators give us "dwelleth" in the KJV is kataoideo, and it’s meaning is: "To house permanently" (Strong’s Greek Dictionary, page 136). Satan not only has his false apostles in the Church, and his congregation of unconverted lying Jews in the Church, and his synagogue in the Church, and his very throne in the Church, but Satan himself dwells permanently in the Church.
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Ever since Pentecost the church has been in apostasy, characterized by all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs, and wonders (2 Thes. 2:3, 6-10). The church is serving a purpose in God plan.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Here are excerpts from the transcript 'How we got the Bible.'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.0.html -------
Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the day of the Lord come, That great and notable day.
Did that happen on Pentecost? Yes it did! How so? How did the sun not give it’s light? How did the moon instead of reflecting light, turn to blood?
Light is symbolic of God’s Truth. Jesus Christ is the light. The brightest physical symbol of light, brightness, this is our sun. So light comes from the strongest source. God - Jesus Christ is that light.
John the Baptist said, “that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light,” (John 3:19). But He was that light. The Son gives light, that’s direct revelation from God.
Now the moon is the reflected light. That should come through the church and through the ministry. They get it from the Son. The moon (church) reflects it’s light from the Son (Christ), it doesn’t have it’s own light (Truth). If the sun went out, the moon would go out, because the moon has no light, it’s reflected light.
So as the ministry gets light, they give it to the congregation, they feed the sheep.
But what did He say would happen, starting on Pentecost? The sun/Son isn’t going to give it’s light anymore. God is not going to give direct light to the people anymore. The light that should be coming, that was already given to the moon, to be reflected, now it’s not going to give it’s light. It’s going to be turned to blood. What is this talking about?
Their revelation from God was going to cease. Apostasy is going to set in. The church is going to go amuck and instead of teaching the light from God and passing it on, they are going to turn to blood. How so?
Well on that very day they stoned Stephen (Acts 7). Instead of giving light to the world as a secondary light, they turned to blood. They turned murderers.
Tomorrow we are going to go through and see how many men, who wanted to present God’s Word to everyday people like us, they had to pay with their lives. Well who would do such a dastardly thing? The moon! The secondary light of God’s Truth - the church - the Popes - the Bishops. If you even had…. you didn’t have to teach it or even read it, if you were found with a copy of Tyndale’s Bible, you were put to death. I mean it was pretty bad.
v
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So the Apostles began to realize that they were not going to see Christ set up His kingdom. They knew it was going to be down the road sometimes.
Now they were also given inspiration and prophesies and revelations that there was going to be an apostasy. That there was going to be a falling away from the Truth and it was happening then.
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Because there was apostasy coming in the church. There is crime and corruption entering in; false prophets, antichrists, strong delusions. It says men shall be lovers of themselves, disobedient, proud, vain, booster, lovers of pleasure (II Tim. 3) and all of these things are coming into the church. So they need to be sure that everybody knows what is the Truth. Now they are going to set aside the books for the final canonization, as what are the Scriptures.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
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OK I'm a little confused> ???
I was just wonder is it possible that God can still be somewhere in all those revivals? I mean in all reality God is always working his will at all times with everyone whether they know it or not. Right? Now before everyone starts calling heresy, here me out!
I going to state something that is obvious to me. Please correct me if I'm wrong.(I encourage it ;)]
It is apparent to me that God works with humanity within two mind sets... The first mindset is the good ole' myth of "free will" and the other is of the awareness that nothing is happening without God's say. God is working his will at all times. I understand that it is God who has willed for the majority of humanity to be under the delusion of "free will" and has chosen a few to know otherwise. My point is... who's to say that God isn't working somehow in those revivals?
The only reason I'm asking is because I have three friends that just came back from that revival in Florida this past weekend Revived! Now understand I don't keep friends that are nut cases, wack jobs or religious weirdos. I am very cautious with whom I keep company with. I have always been that way. Now having said that; my three friends are not of the persuasion that we share here at the BT forums. However, for people whom operates under the "free will" mindset they are really solid people by nature and have a huge passion for loving Jesus, The Father and his Word. It is evident in everything that they do. So when they tell me that God has worked something in them or confirmed a specific direction in their lives...I believe them! Mostly because whenever they say "God has placed something in their Heart" it comes to past. My question is this. Is it possible for someone who believes in that they are responsible for their own decisions and actions to "hear" from God? IE. in a church, or at a revivals etc...
Hum :-\Or maybe its because they went to the revival with great expectation to hear from God and not necessarily the revival itself?
Personally. I don't find the need to go to the Florida, Toronto, or wherever to hear from God. Through Ray's teachings I have discovered that God speaks to me through my life and all of my experiences. I am greatful that God has set me free from all the bondages that comes with the delusion of "free will". However I'm still curious about the subject.
Oh! by the way... One of my friends that attended the revival told me that there was someone out there with a bullhorn saying that the revival was of the devil and all kind of other things. That wasn't anyone here from the forum was it? LOL :D
roundbelly
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roundbellygrove my name is Darren and I posted a post in the testimonial section. Anyways I had a great experience at a revival 20yrs ago. But after sharing my news in the forum I'm confused. I came out of that revival so happy and content. To this day I have never felt that way. So If it's Satans work why would I feel so good. I thought the works of Satan is evil Or was that part of the deception.
Darren
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Pro 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Peace,
Joe
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Hi
I have been reading quite a lot about it recently on other forums and it seems to be causing quite a stir. Only today it has been featured in my local paper, which has a weekly 'religious' section. One of our local pastors has been , so it has probably arrived on my door step.
I have looked on Bentley's site, and I have read an account of an experience he had where he met the apostle Paul and visited his home in heaven. This of course cannot be true as we know the Paul is still dead awaiting resurrection, and there are supposed manifestations of gold dust and encounters with angels. I personally don't trust it.
Col 2:18-19
Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind,
Col 2:19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
What about revivals anyway ? where do they fit into the overall scheme of things ?
We had revival here in Wales 1904 ,and in the Hebrides in the fifties , were they genuine manifestations of God. or were they false signs deceiving many.
Hi! Dave and Karen
Yes we have had our fair share of these revival capers, the last one was a real treat for sore eyes. Idiots falling on their backs and howling like dogs, they seem to have no limits on how low they want to drag the Holy Spirit of God. God have mercy on their miserable souls.
It's just amazing when one considers that after experiencing one round of deception the very same people will go back dancing, arms waving, singing and clapping to subject themselves to yet another deception. These are people who carry their Bibles faithfully wherever they go, unfortunately they never seem to read or understand what it contains. As Ray would say: AMAZING, AMAZING, AMAZING.
IT'S LIKE THE CHICKEN PUTTING IT'S TRUST IN THIS
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk165/Roy87monis/animated234.gif)
God bless
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy. "The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love." 1Jn.4:8
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Hi Roundbelly,
The way I see this is that there are a lot of good, honest, sincere people in the church, I was in the church at one time ;) These people are the many called, they do not know God, indeed they are "enmity against God." (Rom 8:7) True the chosen/Elect come out from them, but I would think they usually come out pretty quick after learning the truth. So their is not a real element of truth there to speak of.
These people are striving for an spiritual experience that they believe will bring them closer to God... Satan knows this. In order to work his deceit craftily he does use signs and wonders.
2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety (cunning, craftiness), so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
v. 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
I feel these people in the church are having real experiences, but not from the Holy Spirit or they would be having their eyes opened to the truth. This is the plan of God for the church in this age, to be deceived. I believe the vast majority are sincerely ignorant, but deceived none the less.
The parable are about the same thing the many/called and the few/chosen, the church is the many and the chosen are the few that come out.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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It's hard for me to think about it now....but when I was in the church I longed for these types of "revivals"....I wanted to experience God! Now I can look back and see that I was actually taunting Him, just as Satan did! "If you are the Son of God, turn these stones into bread!"
Oh, I'd preface my request for Him to "show up" at the service with a halfhearted : "if it be your will, Lord" kind of thing....but the truth of the matter is....deep in my heart....I wanted to SEE what He could do! I needed VISIBLE signs because I didn't have the INVISIBLE!
One night about 7 years ago, I attended a special "revival" meeting in the church where I would occasionally go. Preachers from another part of Canada came in and "tried" to preach the Word that night. Over and over again, the speaker was interrupted by either an apparently demon possessed person or someone "prophesying" or some other disturbance. The Word itself was never preached that night. At one point, gold dust began to appear on the hands of many in the crowd. There were about 600 people in church that night....probably 20-30 people had the dust appear on them. When this began to happen, I suddenly felt very strange....I wanted to SEE this SIGN for myself, so I ran down a couple of rows to hold the hand of a member with gold dust on her hand....I held it still and looked at it very carefully with my eyes....it was real! I can't say it was real gold but there WAS a sparkling gold substance on her hands that she said was not there minutes before! By the way, some people have had the "dust" analysed and it turns out to be just sparkling gold PLASTIC.....but this lady seemed like a very honest, humble lady in her mid 30's and really was astonished that this stuff was appearing on her hands. Other strange things happened that night....oil appeared upon the heads of the teenagers...we were told that this was a "special anointing"...it also appeared on their hands and when it did they were told to lay their hands on people to heal them. Visions began happening....one vision of an angel coming into the service was told to the church just seconds after I saw the very same thing described in detail....I nearly fainted when the speaker began telling the vision that he had just seen seconds before! It was the SAME exact thing that I had seen! But the strange "feelings" did not "feel good or right." Something was wrong!
I went home from this meeting greatly disturbed in my spirit and immediately made a search for "gold dust" on the net. You can do the same. Its been going on for YEARS and all over the world! I gave Cosmo a link to a site that gives the entire history and explains how this is just one more LYING SIGN or WONDER. If anyone wants the link, just PM me. But please, don't get caught up in this silly foolishness.This event marked the END of my attending "church." After what I found out about GOLD DUST I began meeting with other believers in my home only and never returned to the church again. It was the turning point for me. (*Many OTHER things seemed wrong with the church at the time, but this did it for me!)
I've learned that nothing in the flesh can change my sinful heart. It takes the Spirit of the Living God to enter in and begin that process!
With much LOVE and HOPE,
Joyce :)
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roundbellygrove my name is Darren and I posted a post in the testimonial section. Anyways I had a great experience at a revival 20yrs ago. But after sharing my news in the forum I'm confused. I came out of that revival so happy and content. To this day I have never felt that way. So If it's Satans work why would I feel so good. I thought the works of Satan is evil Or was that part of the deception.
Darren
Satan is capable of making you feel very, VERY good (think about that). He is not out to make us miserable immediately, he reels us in with good feelings and pleasure. He works with our flesh, our carnality, and he is a master at giving us fleshly pleasure. If it is the work of God it will bear fruit and be obvious, feeling good is no proof at all of God's work. Take this from someone who has taken part in and experienced all kinds of fleshy pleasures that I can assure you were pure evil.
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Hi Darren,
Good question....
Lets look at it in a cajun way,,,
Satan was to eat the dust,, we are the dust.... ok
Now me being cajun and all well... I kinda like good cooking.
When I'm going to cook something I think it out....
First of all sha, I think I'm going to fatten up the cow,turkey etc...........
But I want him to eat whats going to make the meat on it taste good, maybe some corn grain, and an apple or two here and there.
Just when the time is right "WACK" off with its head.
Then maybe I'm going to let it bath in some seasoning just to my taste for maybe a day or so.......
Then I'm going to beat it till its nice and tender put some more seasoning on it and let it sit, then INTO the pot.
See how we pick and choose our food ........ well ......so does satan He is a master chef created by God to do his job,
thats why he is also called an angel of light.
Gods speed brother.
Randy
;D 8) ;D
Thats close enough sha? ;D
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KristaD and Randy y'all are correct. I can see now how Satan would make me feel good thinking it was God who's doing it. Now I can see how the millions are being deceived. They go to church and come out feeling good, thinking they are doing good. When all alone they are being deceived by Satan Himself. I can see how I was deceived too.
Thanks for helping me see the truth.
Darren
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Hi
What about revivals anyway ? where do they fit into the overall scheme of things ?
We had revival here in Wales 1904 ,and in the Hebrides in the fifties , were they genuine manifestations of God. or were they false signs deceiving many.
I'm still wondering if anyone has any thoughts about my question. I'm not particularly wanting to focus on what's going on in Lakeland. However there does seem to be revivals from time to time that appear to create a genuine God consciousness within a wider community. In wales apparently, pubs (bars) closed down and the local magistrate courts sat less often ,due to the dramatic decrease in crime.I don't believe in a great end time revival particularly and I know people can make an idol out of it, but I am curious to understand the phenomenom .
cheers
Dave
Hi! Dave and Karen
Indeed brother the so called miraculous occurrences can be explained, herewith the answer: "For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, fashioning themselves into apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for even Satan fashioneth himself into an angel of light. It is no great thing therefore if his ministers also fashion themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works." (2Cor.11:13-15).
God bless.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy.
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Yes Roy once again I agree. Satan can make it so where we think it's all God's way (feeling good).I mean these revivals do have people leaving the building feeling on top of the world. I did. I can see how Satan would use this in order to deceive people. I would want to stay somewhere where I felt great. (In the system).
Thanks Darren
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IMO it's all about emotions. I've walked out of many movies emotionally moved. But the movie did not happen to me.
Churches use music to set an emotional stage. They start out with lively music and slowly bring it down to slow, emotional music. Then they pass the hat.
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Dennis, are you sure you're not called to be a psychologist/psychiatrist? Amen to that observation. As Ray likes to say about magic, you know it's a trick, they even show how they do the trick, but when they do the trick you get fooled anyway. I suppose that explains DECEIT in greater detail
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IMO it's all about emotions. I've walked out of many movies emotionally moved. But the movie did not happen to me.
Churches use music to set an emotional stage. They start out with lively music and slowly bring it down to slow, emotional music. Then they pass the hat.
Hi Dennis
Yes, music and slow rhythmic chanting can play tricks on the mind. I believe it's called auto-suggestion, stage hypnotists are famous for that. That is world famous Benny Hinns trick with his low music and his encouragement for the audience to slowly and softly chant, "Come Holy Spirit, Come Holy Spirit." over and over until they fell into a sort of trance. I believe the vulnerable members of the audience hypnotize themselves and fall prey to Benny's deception. He is a professional stage hypnotist and nothing else.
Uri Geller did some amazing things using the same tricks and made a lota, lota, lota, lovely, lovely money
God bless you.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy UK "The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love." 1Jn.4:8
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Wow!
What a reveling week this has been. How did I miss The Depth of Satan-Who is Antipas? in the Lake of Fire series? I have been reading Ray's teaching for over 4 years now and the reality of that section just hit me this week. I know if I had understood it 3yrs ago I would not have joined back at a church. I have done my time in all types of religious establishments to realize that most of it is a bunch of crock. I even attend 2 semesters at a very reputable "bible college" and realized that its all setup. When I left that college over 10 years ago I swore by that horrible experience that I would never have anything to do with religion again, but here I am being duped. Pretty sneaking I must say... Satan used the very thing that is dear to me get me back into his control by luring me with my passion for music. For many years I have played with all kinds and types of bands both secular and christian. I was scared when I played in secular bands because I knew that I was using my talent to encourage sinners to sin more. Then I felt awkward playing in christian groups because it was too controlled. Everything had to be picture perfect depending on where or who you were playing for. I always felt that when praising God with your instrument that you should always be free to be yourself. I mean why act it out? God knows if you are sincere or not anyways.
So I got back into church by a musician friend whom had the same experiences that I had with the world & religion and invited me to attend a service. The first thing I notice was that the congregation was very friendly, you showed up as your are(which was good for me since I'm a tee-shirt & jean kind-of-guy),A very diverse crowd with people from all over the world represented,Tithing was not enforced or pressured but was an expression of worship or offering, I didn't hear any crazy rapture preaching and the Worship was just that... Worship. No set number of songs or type of songs just free Worship. You never knew how long worship service would be. Sometimes 20min, sometimes the whole service could be taken up. In those instances the pastor would dismiss those that had to leave and if they wanted to leave an offering he would just instruct those to leave in the back as they went out. To me at that time I had never experienced a church environment like it. So needless to say I joined in as a Bass player then later as a Drummer.
It was a quote from Dennis Vogel that really struck a nerve.
IMO it's all about emotions. I've walked out of many movies emotionally moved. But the movie did not happen to me.
Churches use music to set an emotional stage. They start out with lively music and slowly bring it down to slow, emotional music. Then they pass the hat.
Then it hit me!!! Ive been hoodwinked!!! All this time I was wondered why I never could make real money in the music business when Satan can use me for free as long a I though I was doing if for the Lord. Ouch >:(
Do you have any idea how bad that stings? Please understand that I am a Virtuoso(highest level of musical awareness on can posses) at my instruments. I am literally a pied pipper!!! I know what notes & rhythms to play to invoke any type of emotion I want and I have been used for the past 2 1/2yrs as a puppet for Satan thinking I was doing it for God.
Anyways, again it has been a reveling week for me. Please keep me in prayer as the Lord directs me in a exit plan. This will not be easy since this has been the best church family I have ever encountered. These people have really watched out for me since I started attending. It will be difficult to explain why I will be leaving. Also I have completely lost the will to play again. I'm feeling like some cheap magician that uses smoke and mirrors to create illusions.
Thanks for the input Ya'll
roundbelly
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Hey roundbellygrove. I was just wandering why you left that church. I must of miss the reasons you stated. I mean for a church it sounded OK. You had your choice of music to play, the preachers didn't ask for money except for contributions guess that;s a from of asking for money though. also you mention the people were friendly. One question. what kind of doctrain did they teach? was it the usual man made stuff. (OF MAN) not God. Please, I mean no harm in asking these questions. It's just that It sounds like a church I left recently.
Darren
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Hi
I came to Christ (or so I thought) in 1972 . I came into the church partly through what was then known as the 'Jesus movement' during that time many thousands of young people both here in the UK and in the USA came into the church professing Christ.Some would have described that as some form of revival.
Now my question is , if as some suggest, revivals are really a deception or satanic in origin, then who was it that called me ,was it God or the devil ?
It's probably a ridiculous question , but it is a logical extension to some of the answers given on this thread.
cheers
Dave
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Hi
I came to Christ (or so I thought) in 1972 . I came into the church partly through what was then known as the 'Jesus movement' during that time many thousands of young people both here in the UK and in the USA came into the church professing Christ.Some would have described that as some form of revival.
Now my question is , if as some suggest, revivals are really a deception or satanic in origin, then who was it that called me ,was it God or the devil ?
It's probably a ridiculous question , but it is a logical extension to some of the answers given on this thread.
cheers
Dave
Hi! Dave
No I don't think that is a ridiculous question, I remember a similar thing happen when Billy Graham came to Manchester. Literally thousands of youngsters where called converted and brought to Jesus, one is presently a pastor in one of the local churches. He has no theological or Bible college qualifications but was appointed by his congregation to lead the church.
None the less he is a firm believer in tithing, trinity and hell. Some of his sermons are just over the top yet they put their full trust in him. A friend of ours was a member for a time, but was told that she could afford to give more as what she was giving was far below the stipulated 10%. How he knew how much she was paying and what her income was I don't know, perhaps he was inspired like Peter: "But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, and kept back some of the price for himself, with his wife’s full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at the apostles’ feet. But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God. And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it." (Acts 5:1-5).
I pleased to say that this friend didn't suffer the same fate of Ananias and Sapphira. Praise the Lord.
God bless you my brother and sister in our walk in Christ.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy UK
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As Ray likes to say: "to come out of Babylon, you must first go into Babylon."
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Winner08,
I forgot to mention that the church I attend belongs to the A/G(Assembly of God)denomination. Even though this church operates differently from the majority of A/G churches. It is still rooted with unscriptual doctrine. If you want? You can google search it to find the main website and read what the core beliefs are. If you have been reading ray's teaching for awhile it wont take long to see what I have issues with.
I personally don't have a problem with the church or the preacher at all. The majority of the pastor's teaching are good well thought out doctrine. However the church is still underwritten by A/G doctrine...Which means Satan is still very influential because of the core believes that they behold. For the most part these people are good "Christians" but if word got out that one of their worship team members believed differently? It could get really ugly fast!!! Having said that, I would like to leave as peaceful as possible. Allot of them are great friends of mine whom have taken care of me and my family in difficult times. The last thing I desire is to develop bitterness between us. Besides its not my job to "save" them. Only the Father can bring someone to the Light.
Anywho... I hope this answers some of you questions winner08. You can pm with any further questions. I prefer to let this subject go for now. Its has been a rough but reveling week for me. :o
roundbelly
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As Ray likes to say: "to come out of Babylon, you must first go into Babylon."
Hi! Dennis
Brother why do you keep reminding me of that nightmare. I did to them what the penguin on your right did to his mate.(http://dl6.glitter-graphics.net/pub/110/110026qsida0z6wg.gif) (http://www.glitter-graphics.com)
God bless you in your walk in Christ.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy UK
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The majority of the pastor's teaching are good well thought out doctrine.
As you spend more time here you will discover that probably EVERYTHING the pastor teaches (of any consequence) is a lie. I'm not saying the pastor is bad or intentionally lying, he most likely does not realize his teachings are 180 degrees opposite from the truth.
To me it's a miracle how completely blind the church is. You would think they would have something right, but they have it ALL wrong. It is a miracle indeed.
But, never the less, Christ preached, is Christ preached.
Php 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
Dennis
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well this is a whole lot to pray about I am a tongue speaking Christian but it is rare and I have all so at times prophesies the Word of the Lord but very few times and I know the difference from going into a spiritual realm picking up anything in the spiritual realm and deliverying it and actually hearing Jesus Christ speak through my voice. That has been very few times in my life but it did happen! No one in this forum can tell me different when I saw people turn their hearts toward God in repentance of their sin. I went into one of those Pentacostal churches where people were running around like a chicken with their heads cut off. It was digusting to me and I never went back. In my early twenties we went to a home meeting,it was banned by all the local churches, made up of a few young coubles worship the Lord on a Friday night. We sang sometimes almost all night into the wee hours of the morning sing lifting our hands and our hearts praising God, talking about what God was doing in our lives, our troubles and praying. It was real it was blessed not because we had some great revelation, nor did we not have our problems but because each one of us had a love and desired to know and do His Will. Was that a Church? I guess you mean the organized church. Do you think that God does not speak through a person, I believe He does probably every minute of the day, to someone else. I have had people come up to me and tell me what came out of my mouth to them changed their lives I didn't even remember them. It wasn't me speaking it was the Holy Spirit speaking through me. Knowledge does not save anyone and it never will. Peole have been growing in Christ for centuries people that couldn't read nor write because they had a heart that wanted God more then themselves. Prayer is so very wonderful. Pray without ceasing. No one can come unto the Father unless the HOLY Spirit draws them. If we live by the Spirit let us WAlk by the Spirit.
Mat 22:37 And Jesus said to him, `Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thine understanding--
Mat 22:38 this is a first and great command;
Mat 22:39 and the second is like to it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself;
Mat 22:40 on these--the two commands--all the law and the prophets do hang.'
You can be the most anointed speaking walking Christ like person on this earth besides Jesus Christ , some pain ridden, fear living carnal christian is going to twist it around to serve the flesh. Does that discount your walk in the Lord and make it evil? I am speaking out because it is not truth to discount the working of the AHoly Spirit and I can witness to you that I can seen and witness the Holy Spirit speak through humans and that tongues are not all a muble jumble mess. But I would not go into those circus's they are calling Churches with people doing strange things for show and tell. peggy
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Hey roundbelly!
I guess a revival is the carnal system's way of saying "I'm dead......let's play a little music, have an alter call, repeat the sinners prayer(again) pass the hat and presto chango everyone comes alive". Revivals are for the "dead". If you are in Christ you are alive and not in need of any hocus pocus! Believe me, even if you have to go through a dry spell, the Lord will give you an acceptable outlet for your musical expertise that has His stamp of approval. The Lord always provides the best for His children, even if we don't see it at the time. Keep praising our Almighty God!
Peggy,
I trust that you know when the Lord has been truly revealed in you :) He works in mysterious ways (even through the babylonian church system) His wonders to make known.
I just distrust the system and the voo-doo it encourages. Peace,
Rest in the Lord,
Barbara
Wow!
What a reveling week this has been. How did I miss The Depth of Satan-Who is Antipas? in the Lake of Fire series? I have been reading Ray's teaching for over 4 years now and the reality of that section just hit me this week. I know if I had understood it 3yrs ago I would not have joined back at a church. I have done my time in all types of religious establishments to realize that most of it is a bunch of crock. I even attend 2 semesters at a very reputable "bible college" and realized that its all setup. When I left that college over 10 years ago I swore by that horrible experience that I would never have anything to do with religion again, but here I am being duped. Pretty sneaking I must say... Satan used the very thing that is dear to me get me back into his control by luring me with my passion for music. For many years I have played with all kinds and types of bands both secular and christian. I was scared when I played in secular bands because I knew that I was using my talent to encourage sinners to sin more. Then I felt awkward playing in christian groups because it was too controlled. Everything had to be picture perfect depending on where or who you were playing for. I always felt that when praising God with your instrument that you should always be free to be yourself. I mean why act it out? God knows if you are sincere or not anyways.
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I am a tongue speaking Christian
Peggy, speaking in tongues is gibberish at best and satanic at worst.
There are religions all over the world that work people into emotional frenzies or emotional moods of melancholy for reasons of power and/or wealth.
http://bible-truths.com/tongues.htm (http://bible-truths.com/tongues.htm)
If God has shown you the truth regarding languages in this paper, and you still REFUSE to give it up, then you have an ‘idol of the heart,’ and ‘ye are YET carnal,’ which means that you do NOT love God, neither are you subject to his spiritual law. You have reached the end of your spiritual growth, and if you don’t repent and give this idol up, then what you have already attained WILL BE TAKEN FROM YOU.
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Hi Roundbelly,
The way I see this is that there are a lot of good, honest, sincere people in the church, I was in the church at one time ;) These people are the many called, they do not know God, indeed they are "enmity against God." (Rom 8:7) True the chosen/Elect come out from them, but I would think they usually come out pretty quick after learning the truth. So their is not a real element of truth there to speak of.
These people are striving for an spiritual experience that they believe will bring them closer to God... Satan knows this. In order to work his deceit craftily he does use signs and wonders.
2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety (cunning, craftiness), so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
v. 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
I feel these people in the church are having real experiences, but not from the Holy Spirit or they would be having their eyes opened to the truth. This is the plan of God for the church in this age, to be deceived. I believe the vast majority are sincerely ignorant, but deceived none the less.
The parable are about the same thing the many/called and the few/chosen, the church is the many and the chosen are the few that come out.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
mercy, peace and love
Kati
i love the way you expressed the exact way i have been feeling lately regarding my momma whom i love with all my heart. i have had several different discussions with her regarding wonderful truths i have been shown in my spiritual understanding and things that are so so simple when you read them and the light of His Truth. things my momma can / could understand but is basically afraid to. afraid to let go of her comfortable fairy tale. the fairy tale of hell. your statement " i feel these people in the church are having real experiences, but not from the holy spirit or they would have their eyes opened to the truth. this is the plan of God for the church in this age, to be deceived. i believe the vast majority are sincerely ignorant, but deceived none the less. this is where my momma is...sincerely ignorant, but deceived none the same. i am sure many many of us have family members we feel the same about. i mean, if you can't talk to your family about the wonderfully fabulous truths of the freedom from the hellfire and heaven only club lies of the church, who can you share them with...hmmm...wait a minute...i think Jesus had this same problem with His family...go figure...
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There is something going on there because a few years back an I live in this general area but not in this city. A huge glass window was wash one day an the next day this picture like a water stain ( it was huge) was on the glass. It was not put there by visible hands it looked like the Christ one way and like a woman ( some said Mary another) which for me meant the completeness. Male and female people came from all over to see this as we did too. many candles were left as a lot of Mexican people in in this area. peggy
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"Signs, signs, everywhere a sign........blockin out the scenery, breakin my mind." Now what was it that Jesus taught about seeking a "sign"?
Matt 12:38-39
38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
(KJV)
Rest in the Lord,
Barbara
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"Signs, signs, everywhere a sign........blockin out the scenery, breakin my mind." Now what was it that Jesus taught about seeking a "sign"?
Matt 12:38-39
38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
(KJV)
Rest in the Lord,
Barbara
Hi! Barbara
I think I also remember reading somewhere something on these lines; “Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. Behold, I have told you in advance. So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather." (Matt.24:22-28). "Lord, who hath believed our report? And to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?" (Isa.53:1).
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk165/Roy87monis/1282.gif)
God bless you sister in our joint walk in Christ.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy UK
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"Signs, signs, everywhere a sign........blockin out the scenery, breakin my mind." Now what was it that Jesus taught about seeking a "sign"?
Matt 12:38-39
38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
(KJV)
Rest in the Lord,
Barbara
Hello Barbara,
It seems that the Florida revival might blow over to Taiwan, where I live and still very reluctantly attend church. I still go 'cause of my wife and the place she still finds herself spiritually. But yesterday morning, the pastor and his wife, out of nowhere, made public that the congregation should get themselves ready for the coming revival, which will be accompanied by signs and wonders.
While sitting and listening to them speaking I went through my Bible and found the same scripture you quoted above.
I would like to know from you, and others, what you make of this scripture? He gave a warning and then left. Right?
What do you think Jonas' sign entails?
Is this revival God's way of giving some over to Satan for their destruction?
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"Signs, signs, everywhere a sign........blockin out the scenery, breakin my mind." Now what was it that Jesus taught about seeking a "sign"?
Matt 12:38-39
38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
(KJV)
Rest in the Lord,
Barbara
Hello Barbara,
It seems that the Florida revival might blow over to Taiwan, where I live and still very reluctantly attend church. I still go 'cause of my wife and the place she still finds herself spiritually. But yesterday morning, the pastor and his wife, out of nowhere, made public that the congregation should get themselves ready for the coming revival, which will be accompanied by signs and wonders.
While sitting and listening to them speaking I went through my Bible and found the same scripture you quoted above.
I would like to know from you, and others, what you make of this scripture? He gave a warning and then left. Right?
What do you think Jonas' sign entails?
Is this revival God's way of giving some over to Satan for their destruction?
Hi! Triton
You seem to be worried about this so-called revival and your pastor putting the fear of his hell into you all in that church. Trust God there is no such thing in the Scriptures so there ain't no revival, there is mention of an apostasy which he is a very big part of: "Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction..." (2Thess.2:3).
It will probably blow into Taiwan as it will most likely blow in everywhere else, but it will also blow out just as fast. Expect signs and wonders that is bound to happen, we have been warned, its right there in your Bible as it is in mine: “Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. Behold, I have told you in advance. So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather." (Matt.24:22-28). "Lord, who hath believed our report? And to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?" (Isa.53:1).
Fear is a bad thing it is not of God. “Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous! Do not tremble or be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go.” (Josh.1:9).
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk165/Roy87monis/lovefaithld7.gif)
You have come out of their midst so why are you going to their church to listen to all their satanic rubbish, believe God? I can see no connection with the sign of Jonah and what he has been parroting about.
God bless you brother and sister in our joint walk in Christ.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy UK