bible-truths.com/forums

=> General Discussions => Topic started by: nightmare sasuke on March 19, 2006, 10:40:04 PM

Title: Free will?
Post by: nightmare sasuke on March 19, 2006, 10:40:04 PM

I agreed with Ray that free will does not exist. However, what do you all think about this verse?

"Isa 65:12 I count you for the sword, and all of you for slaughter shall be hacked down. Because I called, yet you did not answer, I spoke, yet you did not hearken. And you are doing evil in My eyes. And what I do not desire, that you choose."

If everything moves according to the Fathers will, then why does Jesus not desire the people to do what they chose?

Also, what about this verse?

Isa 66:3 Yet the wicked one-- the slaying of a bull, to Me is as smiting a man, sacrificing a flockling is as breaking the neck of a cur, bringing up an approach present is as the blood of a swine, making a memorial of frankincense is as blessing lawlessness. Moreover, they choose their own ways, and in their abominations their soul delights."

Title: Free will?
Post by: mmjones76 on March 19, 2006, 11:55:36 PM

Jesus does not want them to do what he wills at this time, He wants them to go against His will (not His intention).  

Consider when God said to Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil- did He really?  Of course we know God's purpose was for man to experience evil and be humbled by it (Eccl 1:13)

Mike

Title: Free will?
Post by: nightmare sasuke on March 20, 2006, 12:31:03 AM

Thanks for telling me about that verse! I had never read it before. Anyway, it seems a little odd God would desire one thing,  yet will another...

Title: Re: Free will?
Post by: e. on March 20, 2006, 05:37:24 AM

Quote from: nightmare sasuke

"Isa 65:12 I count you for the sword, and all of you for slaughter shall be hacked down. Because I called, yet you did not answer, I spoke, yet you did not hearken. And you are doing evil in My eyes. And what I do not desire, that you choose."

If everything moves according to the Fathers will, then why does Jesus not desire the people to do what they chose?

Also, what about this verse?

Isa 66:3 Yet the wicked one-- the slaying of a bull, to Me is as smiting a man, sacrificing a flockling is as breaking the neck of a cur, bringing up an approach present is as the blood of a swine, making a memorial of frankincense is as blessing lawlessness. Moreover, they choose their own ways, and in their abominations their soul delights."

These people did not "FREELY" choose these things.  God is simply pointing out the nature of the flesh in us, showing us that the flesh wills to do those things which are contrary to the nature and character of God.

We are being made into His image.  part of this is "knowing" (from first-hand experience) both Good & Evil.  BOTH good and evil were contained in the fruit in the garden of Eden.

We must understand that the nature of our flesh is in every way the opposite of the nature of God's Spirit.

This is the whole point & purpose.