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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: ez2u on February 28, 2013, 03:07:10 PM
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What did Christ die for body, soul ,spirit?
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What did Christ die for body, soul ,spirit?
"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that CHRIST JESUS came into the world to SAVE SINNERS; OF WHOM I AM CHIEF." (I Tim. 1:15)
Type either the words "War" or "Disease" into Google Images....you will see exactly what CHRIST died for, and, what HE died to save us from. HE is still creating us....HE laid down HIS life so that we have HOPE! ...Hope in HIM, that "sin" is not our permanent state, nor "death" our final end. HE died for EVERYTHING!... everything that could possibly ever matter to HIS children, that's all of us. We are all effected by the law of sin and death.....and, we all will one day, be MADE A NEW [so that if any one is in CHRIST -- he is a new creature; the old things did pass away, lo, become new have the all things (2 Corinthians 5:17 )]
O give thanks unto Yahweh, For, age-abiding, is his lovingkindness. (Chronicles 20:21) — i.e., HIS MERCY ENDURES ...And thank GOD, too! Because it's hard to imagine Paul being worse then I was. "Mercy", what's involved in that word? Do we as followers of JESUS show mercy to others? I hope to always be merciful. I wish the "Christian" world would reflect that attribute of JESUS. But, they do not.
...JESUS died to change all of us into HIS LIKENESS (Image).... we are to be as HE was, as HE is, as HE will be.
"In this made perfect hath been the love with us, that boldness we may have in the day of the judgment, because even as HE is, we -- we also are in this world;" (1 John 4: 17)
"Ye -- of GOD ye are, little children, and ye have overcome them; because greater is HE who is in you, than he who is in the world." (1 John 4:4)
“And when HE comes, HE will correct the world concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment;” ( John 16:8 )
"and GOD doth commend HIS own love to us, that, in our being still sinners, CHRIST did die for us; much more, then, having been declared righteous now in his blood, we shall be saved through him from the wrath; for if, being enemies, we have been reconciled to GOD through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved in his life." (Romans 5:8,9,10)
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to redeem soul or spirit . Is my question not He die for are sins. I know that but the redemption is for our soul or body. do you understand what I am asking?
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Peggy, you ARE a soul. All of us are. Ray covered this several times in various ways.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11605.0.html
You ARE a soul, and Christ died (and rose) for you. He will redeem YOU from death...not your body, and not some part of you that Christians call the 'soul'. You.
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Jesus will redeem us, in our new Soul.
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To show us love.
John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Eph 5:1-2 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath
given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God
for a sweet smelling savour
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so what about the spirit that lives within us not our soul or mind but spirit? because it is my thinking that after we die our body goes to the grave and our spirit goes to the Lord ,but what happens to our soul? our mind: feelings, knowledge? our love and bitterness etc
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Hi Peggy,
We have a spirit/"breath of life" given to us that gives life to the body, which makes us a "living soul." The soul is what the body comes to be with spirit/life.
Gen 2:7 And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
When the body dies this spirit that has given us life/consciousness/awareness goes back to God (but now becomes un-conscious) for safe keeping until the resurrection.
Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
So the body, as well as the soul (because it does not exist without the body), goes into the grave and returns to dust, disintegrates, is gone. The mind, is the brain and heart, it goes away with the body as well. When God puts our same spirit back into a new resurrected body, then we-the soul lives again.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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so what about the spirit that lives within us not our soul or mind but spirit? because it is my thinking that after we die our body goes to the grave and our spirit goes to the Lord ,but what happens to our soul? our mind: feelings, knowledge? our love and bitterness etc
In my understanding,
Body + Spirit = Soul (old)
We will be given new spiritual bodies (I Cor. 15:42-54). Upon resurrection it will be YOU that are given immortality--the same you that died.
New body + Spirit = New Soul
New soul===} Glorious body + spirit(old)
remember that when you are in Christ:
Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.2Cr 5:17
But in your bitterness:
the wicked and unbelieving will be resurrected to JUDGMENT, and the wicked unbelievers with physical bodies to face Judgment
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:12
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God is our master owner and creator says Christian dogma.
Do you think it odd that a master would die for his slave?
Slave owners of the past seem to be more inclined to live while allowing the slaves to die for them.
Owners tend to think that if they are dead that the estate will go to hell, so to speak and that is why masters would live and let the lower echelons die.
To believe that God died for us, we would have to wonder why God would condemn us in the first place knowing that he would have to die for us.
That makes no sense unless someone here can shed sense on this.
As above so below says scripture.
Would you condemn your children knowing you had to die from your own action of condemnation.
I think that would be quite insane and against scripture and justice.
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
God would not put the wickedness of others onto Jesus and thus punish the innocent instead of the guilty.
Your sins are yours my friend and there is only one way to atone.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Regards
DL
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Hi Greatest I am,
Welcome to the forum :)
The sovereign God has determined what needs to be done to get the outcome He desires and in His perfect wisdom we have this world. Now it you question the wisdom of His plan, you are in ignorant of the brilliance of it is all.
This whole creation is a process, first comes the physical/natural/carnal (1Co 15:46), that is this life and learning about good and evil.
Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.
A person has life and by the experiences that we have we gain an understanding of physical things and that certainly includes pain and suffering, but also joys and pleasures and death in the end of it. This develops a character in a person, but since man is created carnal and too weak to resist sin, we sin, a lot.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
So we are in a place of darkness, not capable of our self to know truth/light. This is a necessary backdrop for people to have as a comparison, of good and evil.
John 12:46 I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.
John 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
Yes this world is a dark place for now, this age is to show mankind through experience what evil is.
John 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
Here a a few things that I thought you could benefit from.
http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html -----------------------
God "created evil" (Isa. 45:7). God does not create things that do not serve a good purpose. By the way, the word translated into "evil" in Isa. 45:7 is the Hebrew word ra, and it is the very same word translated hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times as "evil" throughout the Old Testament.
Now the word ra does not have a conscience and therefore has no moral bias. Evil is not ‘SIN.’ God created evil; God Himself is not evil. And strictly speaking, God did not create sin, nor has God Himself ever sinned. What God has done is created humanity in a spiritually weakened state that is totally incapable of even understanding spiritual laws and principle, let alone being capable of obeying them. And this was not a sin or mistake on God’s part, this was weakness by design. Therefore, God is responsible (certainly not accountable), but responsible for all sin. And God has already taken responsibility for all sin by Sacrificing His Son, Jesus Christ:
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We have seen that not even Satan can go against God’s intentions. Satan needs permission from God to do his dirty work. Since God is responsible (but not accountable—seeing that nothing He does is without a great and beneficial purpose), God takes responsibility for His whole creation, and that is why everything will turn out perfect for every one of God’s creatures.
http://bible-truths.com/email4.htm#account ------------
There are a couple of reasons why God holds one accountable (not responsible--God takes the responsibility) for his sins even if he couldn't have done otherwise.
People who sin and have no desire to please God, do not believe in the first place that they do not have a free will regarding their sins. They believe that they ARE in control of their own destiny. See the example of that I use of the Assyrian king in the latter part of my letter to James Kennedy. The king took credit for conquering all the nations around him. He though HE was the mighty one. He thought HE planned and did these mighty acts by HIMSELF. God informs us that the king was merely a pawn (or an ax) in God's own hand doing the conquering. Our pride and vanity will be conquered by God.
We actually DO commit the sins that we commit. Whether we could have done otherwise is immaterial in as much as committing the sin makes us SINNERS. Think of sin as DIRT. It matters not HOW we got dirty--God is going to give EVERYONE A BATH LIKE IT OR NOT. God is God and He can and will do as HE pleases. And God pleases to put us through an experience of sin and death before He glorifies us with all the powers of the universe.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.msg34384.html#msg34384 ----
"So this is the best that God can do , but it’s not pretty and it’s not fancy and it’s not always happy. It’s painful and sad and much of our lives are misery, you know, laughing on the outside and crying on the inside. It’s not always happy happy happy, but it’s necessary. Is it right, that God should put us through something like that?
We have no say about it, we didn’t ask to be born and we didn’t ask to get lung cancer or whatever. We didn’t ask for this, God puts us through it. Is it fair for Him to do that? Why is it fair? Well there is something good in store. But is it necessary that we would have to go through all of this bad first? It’s true, you have to have the contrast. But sometimes I just say, Lord I think I’m at the place now, Lord I think I’m there. You can take away the bad and see if I’m not thankful.
He sent Jesus Christ to go through the same stuff we go through and that’s why I wanted to bring these out today. Because most of you never knew that. Jesus Christ lived a pretty painful life. Paul lived a pretty painful life, he said I learned to be content in all things. God put His Son through what we have to go through, because He loves us! He didn’t have to.
Jesus Christ did something between His creation and the creation of the earth. He did something to acquire God’s glory, something. Because He had it and He didn’t get it for nothing.
God wants creatures, He wants children, He wants sons and daughters. He has a desire to have something like Himself. But for us to be like Him, we have to go through some pretty tough stuff. So He sent His Son as an example, as how you can go through it and never get angry or upset with God. And to never turn against your fellowman, because of what you have to go through. He lived a perfect life, of the perfect man, sick and diseased, in pain and He lived it perfectly. But God was living in Him, the Father was going through it just as much as He was, you see.
Christ had to die, it said He had to die for our sins. That’s true, that’s the scripture, Christ died for our sin. But then we have a scripture here that doesn’t mention sin.
John 3:16 "For God so(thus) loved the world,”
Thus or in the manner, a lot of people think it’s saying He loved us so much, but that is not what this is saying. What this is saying is God loved us, in this way. This is the manner and way in which He loved us. In this way He loved the world.
“…that He gave His only begotten Son,”
Ok, He died, they killed Him on the cross, He died.
“…that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.”
Of course the Bible is written so man don’t understand it. That’s why some of these things are put in there, “that who-so-ever believes.” God knows and now we know, everybody is going to believe. So the ‘who-so-ever’ is going to be everybody, ok.
But He gave His Son, now here’s the point I want to make and that is this, why did Christ have to die? Why? Why did the Father sacrifice His Son? Why did He have to do that? HE DIDN’T HAVE TO DO THAT! He didn’t have to do anything, HE’S GOD! Why did He?
Because whether you recognize it now or later in life or those in the resurrection to judgment or for the rest of eternity, we are going to know it for sure. That God died for us for no other reason than to show us that HE LOVES US! He did not have to die. He said, I will do it to show them. How can I show them that what I am putting them through has real value? What can I do? I can promise them the world, I can give them mansions and youth and joyful life. I have all that to give, but they will say, you are only giving out of your abundance, of what you have. What can I really do, that you will know that I really love you? And God said, I will DIE!
But God can’t die, He’s eternal, He has immortality, deathlessness. If you have immortality you can’t die.
So He made a Son. He made Him great. And to show us how great He was, He said, let Me show you what I can do when I make a Son. Ok, Create the universe first, now become a man, and now die.
Then they will know We love them.
Then they will know!
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Thanks for this.
Addressing what I wrote would have been more helpful.
Telling me that an immortal God can die just confuses the issue.
Regards
DL
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Thanks for this.
Addressing what I wrote would have been more helpful.
Telling me that an immortal God can die just confuses the issue.
Regards
DL
What do you believe DL? Did Christ actually die for our sins? Was He as dead as the bugs on my windshield from ten years ago?
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" God died for us for no other reason than to show us that HE LOVES US! He did not have to die. "
This statement is patently false.Yahshua died for a REASON MUCH MUCH MORE than to SHOW US he loved us(which is of course true).Yahshua is THE SEED and unless a seed is sown into the ground (earth.... adamah) and DIES... it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.THAT is why he became incarnate and died.To sow the spirit of GOD into all creation to produce fruit (growth..salvation) 30, 60 and 100 fold.EVERYTHING is connected to the KEY parable of the soil and the seed.
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God is our master owner and creator says Christian dogma.
Do you think it odd that a master would die for his slave?
Yes .....unless he was a GOOD master then he would die for the most for the most "wretched...humanity and thats exactly what Yahshua did.
Slave owners of the past seem to be more inclined to live while allowing the slaves to die for them.
Owners tend to think that if they are dead that the estate will go to hell, so to speak and that is why masters would live and let the lower echelons die.
To believe that God died for us, we would have to wonder why God would condemn us in the first place knowing that he would have to die for us.
That makes no sense unless someone here can shed sense on this.
Of course it makes no sense.Why would a carnal mind understand things of the spirit.God is the MASTER of all like it or not.We are his slaves like it or not.If you think you can do ANYTHING on your own your are greatly mistaken.Your logic is purely carnal so of course you are led to that false conclusion.
God created us in this condition because it's the growth process of salvation(Yahshua).Take the seed not dieing in the earth to grow to produce fruit and it all falls apart into nothingness.That was ALL accomplished BEFORE the worlds we formed..all part of the grand equation ....the sum of Gods word(30,60 100 fold).Yahshua's life death and resurrection were the physical manifestations of those marrying the physical with the spiritual.It is DONE ...complete...forever settled.
As above so below says scripture.
please show me "where in the scriptures that says that ... that is a Hermetic maxim.
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Would you condemn your children knowing you had to die from your own action of condemnation.
I think that would be quite insane and against scripture and justice.
God doesn't condemn ANYONE man does.There is NO condemnation in the anointing of Yahshua.
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
God would not put the wickedness of others onto Jesus and thus punish the innocent instead of the guilty.
Your sins are yours my friend and there is only one way to atone.
Yahshua came to GIVE LIFE.. his blood... HIS LIFE.(not his physical blood.)When he said unless you MUST eat my flesh and drink my blood he did not mean that literally or transmogrification or any other religious contamination.He GAVE his Life as the SEED.THAT is the sacrifice he HAD to die that ALL may live THROUGH his life (infinite).
We are born in sin..imperfection....immaturity....like all things.THAT is what he died for to bring us to maturity THROUGH the salvation process.All this religious mumbo jumbo and ritual arguing over the meaning of words is useless.it is DONE.....when you hear that words it is forever settled in your heavens that are IN your midst (not some fantasy land somewhere OUT there).
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Regards
DL
thank God he is patient and COMPLETELY understands man foolishness of religion (he is causing it!!).Searching the scriptures DAILY thinking in THEM they have life YET FAILING to come to him (Yahshua..Gods salvation).FAITH comes by HEARING and hearing by the WORD of GOD.....revelation....you(Yahshua) ARE the Christ ...FLESH and blood (nor words in a book) has not revealed that.
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thanks Kat you came through once again!!!! ;D pretty clear now with this understanding
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we have scripture that tells us Jesus died for our sins. past sins, present sins and sin we will commit in the future. does anyone has scripture that tells Jesus died so we can have his seed to be spread through humanity, Jesus died so God can show us how much He loves us. could be wrong but i dint think so. Jesus was the Lame to be sacerficed to pay the penalty for mankind sins. the payment for sin is death. our carnal spirit could never be one WI the Holy Spirit spirit. the many that are called would never understand Scripture, therefore some humans would never become the few. sorry got carried away. sin is why Jesus died. we would never know The Lord God if the payment was paid. i could b wrong. Wouldn't b the first or the last time I'm wrong
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some here are missing the question The question is wil our souls be redeemed or are spirits or will be a body glorified
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Earlier Dave posted several comments by Ray. Here is one that should answer your question:
Yes, there is a spirit in man (AND ALL ANIMALS). Nothing can live without "spirit." Spirit IS life (Ecc. 8:8; Ecc. 12:7; Luke 23:46; I Cor. 2:11; etc.). There is no consciousness in our spirit alone. There is only consciousness (soul) when man's spirit is combined with a body. God retains our spirit until resurrection when He puts our spirit into a new body and we once again become conscious or receive back the quality of "soul." We are said to have new "spiritual" bodies, not that we are made "spirits."
In another thread Joel pointed out:
Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
So yes, Jesus has a soul. But did He require a 'new' spiritual body considering He was without sin and the Creator?
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
So it is clear that when Mary saw Jesus in the morning He had not yet ascended to His Father and she could not touch Him. But that same evening He had Thomas shove his hand into the hole in His side (touch Him).
Was what Mary saw in the morning a physical body?
Was that body Jesus used to show Thomas a glorified body? It was not allowed to 'see corruption' (decay) but was it even alive? Was the heart beating causing blood to circulate and run out of His wounds? Or was Jesus simply using that body to communicate? Is He still using that same body in heaven? Did He have a physical body before He emptied Himself and became human?
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
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Hi ez2u,
the way I ultimately see it is that our Lord Jesus Christ came to save us all from our sinful selves. He [Jesus] is the example of how God [YHWH] wants and wills us all to end up, and so it will be done.
Christ's life is like one big parable showing what we must all go through to become what God has planned from before the beginning, including one of the most important things, that of dying to 'self'. Jesus showed us how to die to 'self' in the garden of Gethsemane and then on a cross. To me this is why EVERYTHING hinges on Christ and his life as Jesus of Nazareth on earth all those years ago, because without him and his pattern, his example, we would all be lost. Just doomed to death, but through Jesus we are fated to life and immortality, victory over death, ever after with God.
This to me is the real 'GOOD NEWS', that ALL will go through what Christ has demonstrated with such conviction and love and all will be restored and united with God (Acts 3:19-21), Amen.
So I would conclude that Jesus died for our incapability to not sin, and that he alone is the KEY to unlocking our destiny, the KEY OF LOVE.
Sincerely,
Jimi. :).
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..... does anyone has scripture that tells Jesus died so we can have his seed to be spread through humanity, Jesus died so God can show us how much He loves us. could be wrong but i dint think so. Jesus was the Lame to be sacerficed to pay the penalty for mankind sins. the payment for sin is death. our carnal spirit could never be one WI the Holy Spirit spirit. the many that are called would never understand Scripture, therefore some humans would never become the few. sorry got carried away. sin is why Jesus died. we would never know The Lord God if the payment was paid. i could b wrong. Wouldn't b the first or the last time I'm wrong
....this a direct quote from Ray
"... God died for us for no other reason than to show us that HE LOVES US! He did not have to die. He said, I will do it to show them."
You decide which is correct.
Matt 16:21 “From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.”
Luke 24:6-8 "He is not here, but is risen! Remember how He spoke to you when He was still in Galilee, "saying, 'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.'"And they remembered His words.
John 11:49-51 And one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all, "nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish." Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation”
Galatians3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He said not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of ONE, And to your SEED which is CHRIST
John1:In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Luke 8:11Now the parable is this: The SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD
John12:24Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it stays alone: but if it die, it brings forth much fruit.
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I hope you don't see those things as mutually exclusive. To say something 'must happen' does not explain the reason it 'must happen'. The reason it must happen is to demonstrate His love for us.
We've wandered away from the OP, and have tried to explain the assumptions raised in her question. Is there anything to add to that?
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yes...I did agree Yahshua did die for all because he Loves us however he did not die "for no other reason" or "he did not have to die" is not The Truth and nothing but The Truth,...Yahshua died for what he said in John 24...because Yahshua is the Seed that MUST die to produce much fruit.
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1Jn 3:16 (CLV) By this we know love, seeing that He, for our sakes, lays down His soul. We also ought to lay down our souls for the sake of the brethren.
Doesn't that pull it together (and also help with the OP?)?
All I can add is that I see no contradiction. If you do, I'm at a loss. Ray isn't here to take 'disagreement' to personally, or for comment or clarification, as we required in the past. And I'm not smart enough to completely explain why I can believe both the 'must' and the 'underlying reason' (as well as the result) of His death...Love.
Maybe others are.
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Maybe others are.
I believe I am :)
Could it be that Jesus is not talking about himself, when he says:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Could it be, that it´s a parable about the called and the chosen :)
"Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone"
( the called)
"but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit" (the chosen/elect)
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....this a direct quote from Ray
"... God died for us for no other reason than to show us that HE LOVES US! He did not have to die. He said, I will do it to show them."
I see nothing flawed with what Ray said, or why he said it.
There's a lot involved with "showing us that HE LOVES US!" HE (CHRIST) absolutely did not have to suffer and die for us, nor for that matter did HE have to create us in the first place! Everything HE has done, is doing, and will do, is HIM showing us that he LOVES us. Every nuance, period! Dave is correct when he states: "I hope you don't see those things as mutually exclusive." We must always remember that the TRUTH is in the sum.
I believe we are admonished to keep this in mind: "Do everything in love." (1 Corinthians 16:14) This reflects the very motives of our Lord and Savior, HE is our example. "In this made perfect hath been the love with us, that boldness we may have in the day of the judgment, because even as He is, we -- we also are in this world;" (1 john 4:17- emphasis mine)
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Our Father’s plan was to make a physical creation. Why, I don’t know but I like to think it was much like we wish to have children. We know when we bear offspring they are coming into a world of pain and suffering yet we also know, they are coming into a realm of many wonders, joy and love. Could God have created us like the angels? Of course, He could have. However, the angels have never known the glory of the physical realm! We seem to forget that most of the time.
Physical things are not immortal and eventually must die so, of course, God made a provision to ‘rescue’ His children from that fate. In doing so, He provided someone physically JUST LIKE US to not only let us know that darkness of the grave is NOT the end of our existence but the beginning of a much greater existence – a realm we don’t (and can’t) really understand. That physical man showed us just a portion of that realm by laying down His physical life and by being rescued from that grave. Why? So that we may have just an inkling of HIS love for us. Can we perfectly understand 'greater love has no man but to give his life....'? I like to think I can but I don't!
By dying, He produced ‘much fruit’. By living, He ‘fertilized’ the field by walking among us, giving a PERFECT example of how we should live. In my mind, this was possibly more difficult through the years for Jesus than the horrible death on the cross. But His example was that we could be IN the world but not be OF the world, learning that physical/mental, etc. suffering is designed to bring us to humility (as the ‘Preacher’ tells us in Ecc), awe and wonder. But only through HIS grace and love, by walking in Him, loving our fellow man, showing HIM to others and ‘laying down’ our carnal lives to the service of others can we possibly come to TRUE humility. Only through HIS grace can we begin to truly understand that without HIM not only is the grave our ultimate destiny, but the physical life is so empty and tiresome. How can one wake up every morning to see the sunrise and hear a bird sing be unable to SEE His glory and not be brought to their knees in thankfulness for the PHYSICAL creation He gave us?
By knowing my King, I know that my loving Father has provided a way that this old, rotting physical being will someday be like HIM! How wondrous is that? He not only gave me my physical life and the wonders of it, but He begin to open my eyes for me to begin to understand that living that life differently than the world is even more wondrous than I could imagine along with the hope of being with Him beyond the grave in a realm I really don't even understand. What one of us wouldn’t do the same for our children if we could?
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Paul makes it pretty clear in the letter to the Romans as to why Christ died that even I can understand it.
(KJV) Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
(TLB) He died for our sins and rose again to make us right with God, filling us with God's goodness.
(TAB) Who was betrayed and put to death because of our misdeeds and was raised to secure our justification - our acquittal, and to make our account balance, absolving us from all guilt before God.
Joel
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suposedly Jesus died so we wouldnt end up in hell..even thou there is no hell.
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EZ2U Your answer ROMANS 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of GOD is eternal life through JESUS CHRIST our LORD. We have all sinned, and as we know sin = death , we needed a substitute for a better word so what better gift can GOD give man but a savior JESUS CHRIST !!!! WE are saved by death, but death haveing no power over our LORD as HE had not sinned was destroyed, and as our spirits belong to GOD so shall they live, as for your soul, which is you, it will either have parts added or parts taken away from it in the lake of refining fire according to HIS WORD in the Bible . If you are one of the chosen, you will go through this process here on earth, and therefor, the second death has no hold on you as all men must die once. This is what the Bible says and L.Ray did teach :D
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Paul"s letter to the Romans. Paul states it very clearly. Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences (sins) and was raised again for our (humans) justification. Absolving us from ALL guilt before God. Jesus died for our sins. Now if people want to say He died so God can show us how much He loves us, or this reason and that reason, believe what u will. Everything Jesus taught us and showed us was with love. God is love I and My Father are One. I dont believe Jesuse came here on this earth and go through the Roman;s brutal beatens, torture, humiliation,spat upon ridiculed,striped necked and pain that we have no concept of then nailed to a tree and hung there until death to show us how much He loves us. Jesus shows us through His teachings His miracle healings, the way He lived everyday of His life. His day to day life is an example of just how much He loves us. He did not have to die to show me how much He loves me. He did have to be the perfect pure lame to die in order to pay the price of my sins so i can have a personal relationship with Him and His Father. That i my be saved in the end.
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WE are saved by death, (http://WE are saved by death,)
dean kevin heyes
I don't understand your above statement. Can you give your scriptural evidence of it using the following guideline from Ray in His paper "TWELVE GOD-GIVEN TRUTHS TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORDS?"
Thanks.
"…that in the mouth of TWO OR THREE WITNESSES every word may be established" (Matt. 18:16).
"…In the mouth of TWO OR THREE WITNESSES shall every word be established" (II Cor. 13:1).
[C] "And I will give power unto my TWO WITNESSES…" (Rev. 11:3).
This particular law of Scripture is constantly violated. We are to have at least a second witness to establish a Scriptural truth or doctrine.]TRUTH NUMBER 6
[A] "…that in the mouth of TWO OR THREE WITNESSES every word may be established" (Matt. 18:16).
"…In the mouth of TWO OR THREE WITNESSES shall every word be established" (II Cor. 13:1).
[C] "And I will give power unto my TWO WITNESSES…" (Rev. 11:3).
This particular law of Scripture is constantly violated. We are to have at least a second witness to establish a Scriptural truth or doctrine.
(http://TRUTH NUMBER 6
[A)
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What say the Scriptures?
Jesus said,
"Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends." John 15:13 J.F.K. how does this scripture say this is why Jesus died for mankind? We do however have Paul's letter to the Romans, Romans 4:25 tells us exactly why Jesus died for mankind.
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Why are we looking at fingers and calling them hands?
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I think mankind knows evil pretty good, and what were ro learn more so is goodness, but why call me good, for there is only one that is good and that is God.
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Hi Dennis,
You mentioned that even animals have a spirit as that gives life. What happens to that spirit, does it go to God or dies?
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Jesus is the grain of wheat - unless the grain dies it remains alone
First the natural then the spiritual - He died so He would not be alone and also to bring much fruit (us all :)
John 12:24
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
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I see many,many posts by many people. many agree that Jesus died in order to show how much He loved and loves us. Please show me 1,2scripture that states this is whyJesus died for mankind. one of the most commom is John 15;13. I read this scripture many times and i do not see where this scripture states that this is why Jesus died for mankind. Scripture states that 15:12 This is My commandment , that you love one and other as I have loved you. 15:13 greater love has no one like this, than to lay down ones life for his friends. This commandment does not say or states this is why Jesus died for mankind. However it surely tels us Jesus loves us and what a beautifull commandment.
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Hi Darren, surely you did not forget about John 3:16 ;)
John 3:16 For God so loved (loves) the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
v. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
1John 4:9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him
v. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved (loves) us,
v. 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
2Co 5:14 Whatever we do, it is because Christ's love controls us. Since we believe that Christ died for everyone, we also believe that we have all died to the old life we used to live. (NLT)
Rom 8:32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written:
"For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved (loves) us.
Mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Very thoughtful response from Dennis V. Thanks.
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Jesus died for me. :)
claudia
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I see many,many posts by many people. many agree that Jesus died in order to show how much He loved and loves us. Please show me 1,2scripture that states this is whyJesus died for mankind. one of the most commom is John 15;13. I read this scripture many times and i do not see where this scripture states that this is why Jesus died for mankind. Scripture states that 15:12 This is My commandment , that you love one and other as I have loved you. 15:13 greater love has no one like this, than to lay down ones life for his friends. This commandment does not say or states this is why Jesus died for mankind. However it surely tels us Jesus loves us and what a beautifull commandment.
The way I see it, Darren, it is all about love. Every action of our Creator comes from a place of love, because God is love. (1John 4:8,16) :)
René
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Ah, Christ died for me too.
Lazar 'Surname', DD UC CU
DD: Death Deserving
UC: Utterly Corrupt
CU: Completely Useless