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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: bible man on July 12, 2009, 05:39:46 AM
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Are there any modern day apostles?
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Hi Matt, it may have been a title given to just the original twelve Apostles, could be wrong. Did you have someone in mind?
From Strong's Dictionary
apostle
G652
ἀπόστολος
apostolos
ap-os'-tol-os
From G649; a delegate; specifically an ambassador of the Gospel; officially a commissioner of Christ (“apostle”), (with miraculous powers): - apostle, messenger, he that is sent.
From Vines Dictionary of the NT
Apostle, Apostleship
1. apostolos (G652) is, lit., "one sent forth" (apo, "from," stello, "to send"). "The word is used of the Lord Jesus to describe His relation to God, Heb_3:1; see Joh_17:3. The twelve disciples chosen by the Lord for special training were so called, Luk_6:13; Luk_9:10. Paul, though he had seen the Lord Jesus, 1Co_9:1; 1Co_15:8, had not 'companied with' the Twelve 'all the time' of His earthly ministry, and hence was not eligible for a place among them, according to Peter's description of the necessary qualifications, Act_1:22. Paul was commissioned directly, by the Lord Himself, after His Ascension, to carry the gospel to the Gentiles.
"The word has also a wider reference. In Act_14:4, Act_14:14, it is used of Barnabas as well as of Paul; in Rom_16:7 of Andronicus and Junias. In 2Co_8:23 (RV, margin) two unnamed brethren are called 'apostles of the churches'; in Phi_2:25 (RV, margin) Epaphroditus is referred to as 'your apostle.' It is used in 1Th_2:6 of Paul, Silas and Timothy, to define their relation to Christ."*
* From Notes on Thessalonians, by Hogg and Vine, pp. 59-60.
2. apostole (G651), "a sending, a mission," signifies an apostleship, Act_1:25; Rom_1:5; 1Co_9:2; Gal_2:8.
Note: Pseudapostoloi, "false apostles," occurs in 2Co_11:13.
Thats a tough one, but it seems it literally means "one set forth" or "he that is sent". Good question Matt, you got me thinking now. I have only known the original twelve to be Apostles, but since Jesus was "one set forth" and no doubt Someone who is "he that is sent", so I would have to say yes, there is an modern day Apostle, since He (Jesus) is alive.
1Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and SENT HIS SON to be the propitiation for our sins.
Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Maybe Ray has talked about this somewhere or someone here might be able to help you better.
Peace,Love
G.Driggs
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One thing I'm sure of is that those out there that call themselves apostles and prophets....aren't!! ::)
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i Feel the same way. When someone calls themselves an apostle or prophet i am so very weary and careful of what who they are as a person. I just don't see those who are true apostles, the elect of God etc.. to be so puffed up with pride that they would boast they are.
I mean look at ray himself, the man has extroardinairy strength through God and in my opinion is a spiritual giant, perhaps not as great as paul or some of those in the bible, but hes the damn near closest thing ive ever seen to an apostle of God. Yet he never ever calls himself this, he never ever boast, he is very humble, he upliftsts - US. Even through his tremendous pain and suffering right now, he is thinking of US. To me that is love.. thats amazing. Surely the Son of God has made His home with ray.
I just never ever see ray boasting about anything hes ever done, anything he knows.. his humility is amazing. Even when he could feel those thinking of him as something amazing, he told us all in the letter, don't look at him as anything more than a man, nothing more than the rest of us. Dont idolize him.
To me.. that is amazing, because ray has tremendous power, perhaps the greatest we could ever want, FAITH and he could very well take that and use it to puff himself up above others but HE DOESNT.
If their are any apostles... ray is damn near close to one. I dont want to idolize him, i don't, but ij ust have tremendous respect for him. I've always said, he gave me my faith back, he showed me that God is indeed real and he does indeed love.
Well thats my two cents, my rant, lol sorry it got long winded.
God Bless
Alex
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AGREED!
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Email to Ray. Hope it helps.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7725.0.html
I have been lately bombarded with questions concerning if there are TRUE COMMISSIONED APOSTLES AND PROPHETS OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST in God's Spiritual body today. I know there are false of both of these offices everywhere literally. But since Jesus does mention pastors, teachers, and evangelists, are there real converted Apostles and Prophets TODAY of the "few chosen" of God's elect? This argument is driving me crazy!
Thanks.
God bless you in Christ.
Ricardo
Dear Ricardo: I have never met or heard of one. I call myself a "teacher." That's all. Actually it is Paul, not Jesus who mentioned these offices of ministry. Of course Paul also said that there would be a great falling away, so I guess it should not surprise us that these ministries are hard to find today.
God be with you,
Ray
Peace...Mark
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I too have wondered about the modern day existince of Apostles and Prophets... Seeing how as a previous babylonian minister i was myself i really harped alot on eph 4:8-13 and 1Cor 12:28 to show that the so called "5 fold ministry" was still in operation since it said that these gifts would be used "Until" the unity of the Faith of Believers was set... However since (Lord Willing) my spiritual eyes have been opened to some truth in the word, i've realized that the Apostles of old are still with us today in the Word, even the Prophets of old are with us to this day in the Word... just something to think about.
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I think I need to reword my question is there any scripture prohibiting modern day apostle? I wanted the forums insight, this was a major question/debate on my radio show amongst callers thanks !!!!!!!
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Hi Bible man,
My question would be; who is there to appoint one as an apostle today? We know that the original Apostles were given their position by Christ Himself and they could have appoint others as apostles with authority I would think too. But as of today who is there to appoint one as such and how would we look on someone who self-appointed themselves? Just the way I am looking at this.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Is there any scripture prohibiting modern day Apostles.
Not that I am aware of. Prohibition or permission is up to whatever whichever ecclesiastical authority decides according to its doctrines and traditions. In other words, worthless. Absolutely worthless.
Come to think of it, there is no prohibition on False Prophets, either. "False prophets WILL arise." God has willed it to be so. I couldn't name you a single modern day "Apostle" ordained by any earthly authority, real or imagined, that wouldn't also have the "office" of false prophet.
Of course, I've been out of religion for a long time, so some may have slipped by my radar. :D
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Might be a new Czar position opening up in charge of appointments. ::) ;D ;D ;)
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bibleman,
I can find where GOD Appointed Some Apostles, none where anyone today is commissioned to do so, will keep searching for answers.
1Co 12:28
And God set some in the church, firstly, apostles; secondly, prophets; thirdly, teachers, then works of power, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, kinds of languages.
Eph 4:11
And truly He gave some to be apostles, and some to be prophets, and some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers,
Eph 4:12
for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.
george.
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The way I see it there are no modern day apostles (there were only twelve) and quite frankly there is no need for any. The apostles were there to preach the word of God to people who had never heard...and back then most people had never even heard of Christ. Now, though we have the Bible and many people know about religion so it is different. The one's that are spiritually discerned are God's chosen Elect and that is all....IMO.
Oh and John the Baptist was the last Prophet...Prophets were to make way for the Messiah. No?
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Oh and John the Baptist was the last Prophet...Prophets were to make way for the Messiah. No?
Yes, that's included, but overall prophets are to speak/testify of the Lord and of His Will for the edification of the Saints.
Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us [Paul & other prophets after Christ had risen], whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
1 Cor 12:8-10 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy...
Hope that helps,
Marques
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Hi Bible man,
My question would be; who is there to appoint one as an apostle today? We know that the original Apostles were given their position by Christ Himself and they could have appoint others as apostles with authority I would think too. But as of today who is there to appoint one as such and how would we look on someone who self-appointed themselves? Just the way I am looking at this.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Hi Bibleman,
My thoughts sorta coincide with Kat's, Jesus appointed the original Apostles, later appointed Paul as an
Apostle to the nations and as explained earlier, Apostle means: " One Sent Forth." Also in some Scriptural examples,
Paul mentions certain Apostles in a bad light, at least towards ones claiming to be Apostles. " For I consider that I
have not in a single thing proved inferior to your Superfine Apostles." 2Cor.11:5(NWT) and " Now what I am doing I
will still do, that I may cut off the pretext from those who are wanting a pretext for being found equal to us in the
office of which they boast. For such men are false Apostles, deceitfull workers, transforming themselves into Apostles
of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an Angel of light." 2Cor.11:12-14(NWT).
So, with the above considered and specific names mentioned in Scripture of any other True Apostles,
one would want to, at least have some caution towards those today claiming to be Apostles. All of the above
doesn't imply there couldn't be, just to proceed with caution.
Kind Regards, Samson.
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bibleman,
This Scripture may be the answer you are looking for, I will keep looking for and studying this question.
Since the admonition is for all the Church in this age, there does not appear to be any more Apostles appointed.
Eph 2:20 (MKJV)
and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,
Rev 2:2 (MKJV)
I know your works and your labor and your patience, and how you cannot bear those who are evil. And you tried those pretending to be apostles, and are not, and have found them liars.
Rev 21:14 (MKJV)
And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
george. :)
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Mark 3
13 And He is ascending into the mountain and is calling to Him whom He would, and they came away to Him.
14 And He makes twelve, whom He also names apostles, that they may be with Him, and that He may be commissioning them to herald,
15 and to have authority to cure diseases, and to cast out demons.
16 And He makes the twelve,
I would have to believe that there were no more apostles according to what these verses indicate. Unless I am mistaken, Jesus has not commissioned anyone outside of the twelve.
Except Paul.
Peace...Mark
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Oh and John the Baptist was the last Prophet...Prophets were to make way for the Messiah. No?
so then what was meant by "and WHEN he ascended up on high he gave gifts unto men, ...including prophets in that list?... if john the baptist was the last prophet (which he wasn't according to acts 21:10) then how could christ have given it to John if he hadnt ascended up on high.
these gifts , were they not given after the resurrection of Jesus? so then these five gifts with the Prophet included are in some way different from the prophets of old no?
by the way... i understand thus far that the office of Apostle must be given by Christ himself as in the case even with Paul, However Jesus didn't proclaim him to anyone, Paul had to show them who he was by the word and revelation, which they basically just had to "by faith" believe he was telling the truth.... am i way off here?
If that's true, can Jesus not appoint and send people today for a purpose?
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(Prophets) Prophesying in the last day, is one of the Gifts Of The Spirit, below are two of many Scripture witnesses to this. Witnesses highlighted in maroon bold.
Joel 2:28-29 (MKJV)
28 And it shall be afterward, I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh. And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy; your old men shall dream dreams; your young men shall see visions.
29 And also I will pour out My Spirit on the slaves and on the slave women in those days.
Act 2: 16-21 (MKJV)
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 "And it shall be in the last days, says God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh. And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And in those days I will pour out My Spirit upon My slaves and My slave women, and they shall prophesy.
19 And I will give wonders in the heaven above, and miracles on the earth below, blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before that great and glorious Day of the Lord.
21 And it shall be that everyone who shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Paul was not, and could not be his own witness of his appointment as an Apostle. Scripture teaches that by the mouth of two or three witnesses must any Scriptural Truth be established. Sometimes we need to work harder to find the witnesses, and remember that The Sum Of GOD'S Word Is Truth; and no Prophesy Of The Scriptures can be its own interpretation.
Act 9:
1 And Saul, still breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest
2 and asked letters from him to Damascus to the synagogues; so that if he found any of the Way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
3 But in going, it happened as he drew near to Damascus, even suddenly a light from the heaven shone around him.
4 And he fell to the earth and heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?
5 And he said, Who are you, lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom you persecute. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.
6 And trembling and astonished, he said, Lord, what will You have me to do? And the Lord said to him, Arise and go into the city, and you shall be told what you must do.
7 And the men who journeyed with him stood speechless, indeed hearing a voice but seeing no one.
8 And Saul was lifted up from the earth, his eyes were opened, but he saw no one. But they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus.
9 And he was three days not seeing, and did not eat or drink.
10 And there was a certain disciple in Damascus named Ananias. And the Lord said to him in a vision, Ananias! And he said, Behold me, Lord.
11 And the Lord said to him, Arise and go into the street which is called Straight and inquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus. For behold, he is praying,
12 and has seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him so that he might receive his sight.
13 And Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard from many of this man, how many evil things he has done to Your saints at Jerusalem.
14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your Name.
15 But the Lord said to him, Go! For this one is a chosen vessel to Me, to bear My name before nations and kings and the sons of Israel.
16 For I will show him what great things he must suffer for My name's sake.
17 And Ananias went and entered into the house. And putting his hands on him, he said, Brother Saul, the Lord, Jesus, who appeared to you in the way in which you came, has sent me to you that you might see and be filled with the Holy Spirit.
george :)
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Are there any modern day apostles?
If there are any true Apostles or Prophets today, this is how we'd find them:
Mat 20:25 Now Jesus, calling them to Him, said, "You are aware that the chiefs of the nations are lording it over them, and the great are coercing them.
26 NOT THUS IS IT TO BE AMONG YOU. But whosoever may be wanting to become great among you, let him be your servant,
27 and whoever may be wanting to be foremost among you, let him be your slave,
28 even as the Son of Mankind came, not to be served, but to serve, and to give His soul a ransom for many."
On 2nd thought, if they are truly living by this commandment, then it would be next to impossible to find them...
Daywalker 8)
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Daywalker, Amen, to that. I have seen all of those kind that love to serve themself. I have very seldom seen any of them who live by those commandments.
But, I have seen a modern day teacher who loves to serve the people even while on his death bed. Ray L. Smith Yes and I still seldom see any more living like this.
God does have a choosen few who lights will shine.
In His Love,
Marlene
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Daywalker, Amen, to that. I have seen all of those kind that love to serve themself. I have very seldom seen any of them who live by those commandments.
But, I have seen a modern day teacher who loves to serve the people even while on his death bed. Ray L. Smith Yes and I still seldom see any more living like this.
God does have a choosen few who lights will shine.
In His Love,
Marlene
Very true, Marlene!
I complain to God when I have a stomach ache, or even a sunburn. Ray, on the other hand, has endured unspeakable pains, yet he remains loyal through it all--an amazing example for us to follow. If I had even half the sufferings as Ray does, right now, my faith may be crushed... Tis proof that Ray's faith is strong, and I have a llloooonnnngggg ways to go...
...but thank God for "grace"! ;D :D
- Daywalker 8)
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One thing I'm sure of is that those out there that call themselves apostles and prophets....aren't!! ::)
wow!YOU ARE SURE,HUH?
guess who isn't one ( an apostle) by your standard??:
1.Romans 1:1
Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,
2. Romans 1:5
through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,
3. Romans 11:13
But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
4. 1 Corinthians 1:1
Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
5. 1 Corinthians 4:9 (my personal favorite)
For, I think, God has exhibited us apostles last of all, as men condemned to death; because we have become a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men.
6.1 Corinthians 9:1
[ Paul's Use of Liberty ] Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?
1 Corinthians 9:2
If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you; for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
2 Corinthians 1:1
] Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God which is at Corinth with all the saints who are throughout Achaia:
2 Corinthians 11:1
[ Paul Defends His Apostleship ] I wish that you would bear with me in a little foolishness; but indeed you are bearing with me.
2 Corinthians 11:5
For I consider myself not in the least inferior to the most eminent apostles.
2 Corinthians 12:11
I have become foolish; you yourselves compelled me Actually I should have been commended by you, for in no respect was I inferior to the most eminent apostles, even though I am a nobody.
Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle ( not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),
Ephesians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus:
Colossians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,
1 Thessalonians 2:6
nor did we seek glory from men, either from you or from others, even though as apostles of Christ we might have asserted our authority.
1 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus according to the commandment of God our Savior, and of Christ Jesus, who is our hope,
1 Timothy 2:7
For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle ( I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
# 2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, according to the promise of life in Christ Jesus,
# 2 Timothy 1:11
for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher.
# Titus 1:1
Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,
BY MY COUNT THAT MAKES 21 DIRECT REFERENCES IN ONLY 10 LETTERS!
MUST I CONTINUE - because i did not include a plethora of indirect references?
here is where you err GREATLY! it is in fact where ALL err greatly because God says this is how they will:
ecc 1:
9That which has been is that which will be,
And that which has been done is that which will be done.
So there is nothing new under the sun.
10Is there anything of which one might say,
"See this, it is new"?
Already it has existed for ages
Which were before us.
11There is no remembrance
There is no remembrance
There is no remembrance
There is no remembrance
There is no remembrance
of earlier things;
And also of the later things which will occur,
There will be for them
no remembrance
no remembrance
no remembrance
no remembrance
no remembrance
Among those who will come later still.
OF COURSE THERE ARE APOSTLES NOW
b x
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believerx,
I think Arion was referring to the "false apostles" that Jesus and His Apostles warned us about... ???
Matthew 7:15: Take heed of those false prophets who are coming to you in the apparel of sheep, yet inside they are rapacious wolves.
Matthew 24:5 For many shall be coming in My name, saying, 'I [Jesus] am the Christ!' and shall be deceiving many.
II Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, fraudulent workers, being transfigured into apostles of Christ.
II Peter 2:1 Yet there came to be false prophets also among the people, as among you also there will be false teachers who will be smuggling in destructive sects, even disowning the Owner Who buys them, bringing on themselves swift destruction."
2 And many will be following out their wantonness, because of whom the glory of the truth will be calumniated,
3 and in greed, with suave words, they will traffic in you, whose judgment of old is not idling, and their destruction is not nodding
- Daywalker 8)
One thing I'm sure of is that those out there that call themselves apostles and prophets....aren't!! ::)
wow!YOU ARE SURE,HUH?
guess who isn't one ( an apostle) by your standard??:
1.Romans 1:1
Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,
2. Romans 1:5
through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,
3. Romans 11:13
But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
4. 1 Corinthians 1:1
Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
5. 1 Corinthians 4:9 (my personal favorite)
For, I think, God has exhibited us apostles last of all, as men condemned to death; because we have become a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men.
6.1 Corinthians 9:1
[ Paul's Use of Liberty ] Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?
1 Corinthians 9:2
If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you; for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
2 Corinthians 1:1
] Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God which is at Corinth with all the saints who are throughout Achaia:
2 Corinthians 11:1
[ Paul Defends His Apostleship ] I wish that you would bear with me in a little foolishness; but indeed you are bearing with me.
2 Corinthians 11:5
For I consider myself not in the least inferior to the most eminent apostles.
2 Corinthians 12:11
I have become foolish; you yourselves compelled me Actually I should have been commended by you, for in no respect was I inferior to the most eminent apostles, even though I am a nobody.
Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle ( not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),
Ephesians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus:
Colossians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,
1 Thessalonians 2:6
nor did we seek glory from men, either from you or from others, even though as apostles of Christ we might have asserted our authority.
1 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus according to the commandment of God our Savior, and of Christ Jesus, who is our hope,
1 Timothy 2:7
For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle ( I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
# 2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, according to the promise of life in Christ Jesus,
# 2 Timothy 1:11
for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher.
# Titus 1:1
Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,
BY MY COUNT THAT MAKES 21 DIRECT REFERENCES IN ONLY 10 LETTERS!
MUST I CONTINUE - because i did not include a plethora of indirect references?
here is where you err GREATLY! it is in fact where ALL err greatly because God says this is how they will:
ecc 1:
9That which has been is that which will be,
And that which has been done is that which will be done.
So there is nothing new under the sun.
10Is there anything of which one might say,
"See this, it is new"?
Already it has existed for ages
Which were before us.
11There is no remembrance
There is no remembrance
There is no remembrance
There is no remembrance
There is no remembrance
of earlier things;
And also of the later things which will occur,
There will be for them
no remembrance
no remembrance
no remembrance
no remembrance
no remembrance
Among those who will come later still.
OF COURSE THERE ARE APOSTLES NOW
b x
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I was given a letter (christaindom), I carried it(christaindom) with intent to harm those that believed (christaindom), I was on the road (christaindom), I was kicking against the goads(christaindom), i was made blind (christaindom), I fell away (christaindom)!
Now I can see (Christ).
I Follow Christ,
Kenny-Bar-Jesus
APOSTLE
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I was given a letter (christaindom), I carried it(christaindom) with intent to harm those that believed (christaindom), I was on the road (christaindom), I was kicking against the goads(christaindom), i was made blind (christaindom), I fell away (christaindom)!
Now I can see (Christ).
I Follow Christ,
Kenny-Bar-Jesus
APOSTLE
After reading and rereading this about a dozen times...wow. Now to the scriptures to read it for myself!
Steve
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daywalker said:
believerx,
I think Arion was referring to the "false apostles" that Jesus and His Apostles warned us about... ???
Matthew 7:15: Take heed of those false prophets who are coming to you in the apparel of sheep, yet inside they are rapacious wolves.
Matthew 24:5 For many shall be coming in My name, saying, 'I [Jesus] am the Christ!' and shall be deceiving many.
II Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, fraudulent workers, being transfigured into apostles of Christ.
II Peter 2:1 Yet there came to be false prophets also among the people, as among you also there will be false teachers who will be smuggling in destructive sects, even disowning the Owner Who buys them, bringing on themselves swift destruction."
2 And many will be following out their wantonness, because of whom the glory of the truth will be calumniated,
3 and in greed, with suave words, they will traffic in you, whose judgment of old is not idling, and their destruction is not nodding
- Daywalker 8)
daywalker, also said this:
If there are any true Apostles or Prophets today, this is how we'd find them:
bx says:
daywalker and arion,
there are both - the ratio is 10,000 false to a few true apostles( FATHERS). and YOU DONT FIND THEM, if you are fortunate AND
RECEPTIVE THEY FIND YOU - because Jesus sends them to you!
ro 10:
13for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
14How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
15How will they preach unless they are sent?
Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"
but the majority of people to whom they are sent respond in only this manner:
do you think apostles( sent ones) evoke kind responses? or hostility?
the scripture is plain:
matt:
" Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of
them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your
synagogues, and persecute from city to city,
luke:
49"For this reason also the wisdom of God said, 'I will send to them prophets
and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute,
50so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the
world, may be charged against this generation,
what makes anyone think this generation is any more receptive to the gospel than
all those preceding it? there is NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN...
you dont have the ability to receive it if you dont enter by the gate. you are
not allowed to make up your own rules.
all of the scriptures regarding those whom Christ sends are veiled references about apostles...
but-I've said too much.....
b x A.K.A -michaiah ( always outnumbered- never wrong)
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Dan 12: 1-13 (CLV)
1 In that era shall stand up Michael, the great chief, standing over the sons of your people. Then comes to be an era of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation on the earth, till that era. Now in that era your people shall escape--all those found written in the scroll."
2 From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian life and these to reproach for eonian repulsion."
3 The intelligent shall warn as the warning of the atmosphere, and those justifying many are as the stars for the eon and further."
4 Now you Daniel, stop up the words and seal the scroll till the era of the end, when many will swerve as evil will increase."
5 I, Daniel--I see, and behold, two others are standing, one on the near bank of the waterway and one on the far bank of the waterway."
6 I am saying to the man clothed in linen who is above the waters of the waterway, "Till when is the end of the marvels of which you speak, and this cleansing?
7 I am hearing the man clothed in linen who is above the waters of the waterway, "Till the era of the end.Then he is holding high his right and his left hands to the heavens and is swearing by Him Who is living for the eon, that it is for an appointed time, two appointed times and half an appointed time. And as is concluded the shattering of the hand of the holy people, concluding are all these things."
8 I hear, yet I am not understanding. Hence I am saying, "My lord, what is there after these things?
9 Then he is saying, "Go, Daniel, for stopped up and sealed are the words till the era of the end."
10 Many will purify and whiten themselves and be refined; yet the wicked will be wicked. None of all the wicked shall understand; yet the intelligent are understanding.
11 From the era when the continuous ritual is taken away, and to the setting of the abomination of desolation, is a thousand two hundred and ninety days."
12 Happy is he who will tarry and attain to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days!
13 Now you, go on to the end, and you shall rest and stand up for your lot at the end of the days."
george. :)
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Hello believerx,
I haven't heard much from you on the forums, so perhaps I don't understand your personality yet. But you are coming off a little arrogant in your posts. It sounds like you're trying to 'teach' and that you feel you know so much more than others here--maybe you do, but I think your approach is a little off.
You ended your last post with:
"b x A.K.A -michaiah ( always outnumbered- never wrong)"
So you're never wrong?
Really?
Are you sure you want to make a claim like that?
Again, maybe I just don't understand your personality yet. But for the record your post taught me nothing new. Of course, the apostles of Christ are persecuted and hated by most the world. Most don't want the Truth, they want to believe what they wish.
But I'll tell you one thing: those who 'boast' that they are great apostles, are the ones we are warned to stay away from.
May God guide you,
Daywalker. 8)
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Yup, believers post don't sit well with my spirit.
I don't post much myself and i don't know much, but i've always trust God's spirit to indicate to me when something aint right. All i gotta say is i got a bad vibe from believersx post.
God bless,
Alex
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Yup, believers post don't sit well with my spirit.
I don't post much myself and i don't know much, but i've always trust God's spirit to indicate to me when something aint right. All i gotta say is i got a bad vibe from believersx post.
God bless,
Alex
Lev 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
Lev 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Deu 10:19 Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Pro 10:12 Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses.
Pro 27:5 Better is open rebuke than hidden love.
Mic 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Mat 5:45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Mat 5:47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
Mat 5:48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
Joh 13:35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."
Rom 12:10 Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor.
Rom 14:15 For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died.
1Co 13:2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
1Co 13:13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
1Co 14:1 Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.
1Co 16:14 Let all that you do be done in love.
2Co 13:11 Finally, brothers, rejoice. Aim for restoration, comfort one another, agree with one another, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you.
BelieverX: I am not as well versed in expressing myself in scripture as many others, but I know that here we can offer you understanding, support, and love. It may not always be expressed perfectly, but I have found that those who are called here by GOD are of like mind and that we do love one another.
NB
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There was an absolute humility in Paul and all the apostles of our Lord. They got that humility because God showed them all who and what they really are. God showed them the beast within and they loathed themselves for it. They knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was Christ who lived in them and that they were crucified with Christ. You show me a contemporary man or woman of God who walks in that level of humility and I'll pay attention to what they have to say about themselves but show me the humility first. The current crop of 'apostles', 'prophets', and 'teachers' reek with arrogance, pride and vanity. When I started to read Ray's teachings and I read some things that made him sound abrasive I knew I had to listen to his audio's in order to discern his heart. That man knows humility and that is why I listen to what he has to say.
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There was an absolute humility in Paul and all the apostles of our Lord. They got that humility because God showed them all who and what they really are. God showed them the beast within and they loathed themselves for it. They knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was Christ who lived in them and that they were crucified with Christ. You show me a contemporary man or woman of God who walks in that level of humility and I'll pay attention to what they have to say about themselves but show me the humility first. The current crop of 'apostles', 'prophets', and 'teachers' reek with arrogance, pride and vanity. When I started to read Ray's teachings and I read some things that made him sound abrasive I knew I had to listen to his audio's in order to discern his heart. That man knows humility and that is why I listen to what he has to say.
Yep, yep, great post Arion.
If there's any man alive, that I know, that is worthy of being called a true modern-day "apostle", it would be Ray. Yet, even he refuses to call himself one. He doesn't take the title of 'apostle' or 'prophet', but simply calls himself a 'teacher'. This too me is true Godliness and humility, as I have learned more from his teachings then anyone else. Not only have I learned so much about God and His Word, but how to discern it, understand it, and how to tell if someone is speaking the Truth or not.
So far, I've yet to read a contradiction or false truth in any of Ray's teachings. Yet, I have read several books, and though I may agree with some or much of what they say, I can also see things they teach that are decisively against the Scriptures, and I can find the Scriptures that prove this to be true in each case, and relatively quickly.
Truly, Ray is being inspired by God, and is setting us a great modern-day example of how we should live. Praise God for Ray and for bibletruths, and for this forum of likeminded believers seeking Truth, and Truth alone. ;D
Peace, out.
Daywalker 8)
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Right on Daywalker!!!
Bluzman
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how does anyone really know what godly humility really looks like - when the only thing you can compare it with is your own limited experience based on the way dumb animals behave?
paul called the galatians fools.
he said the corinthians had NO KNOWLEDGE OF GOD.
james said the 12 tribes he was writing to ( christians) were a bunch of murderous adulteresses that showed evil partiality.
to equate gentleness in an earthly sense with true humility is unscriptural. sorry that is just a fact.
i am humble. i have been humble for quite sometime now. but you would not know that about me. someone asked if there were apostles and i gave a detailed scriptural answer. based on what i proved to be a errant statement.
( that apostles dont call themselves apostles!)
so what if i say i am never wrong? i also dont go beyond what God has shown me-
( Ro. 15:18 For I will not presume to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me, resulting in the obedience of the Gentiles by word and deed...)
and He has shown me A LOT! but only in comparison to what i have seen from everyone else i have encountered, including Ray Smith. so what?
but because of the forum rules that i agreed to, i am not allowed to teach.
but doesnt everyone really " teach" when they give their opinion?
i could add immeasurable value here but i am not allowed. i have been shut down.
regards,
a nobody
2 cor 12:11
2 cor 12:11
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believerx,
i could add immeasurable value here but i am not allowed. i have been shut down.
Whaddu you mean you're not allowed? Nobody is stopping you from sharing your opinions, beliefs and God-given knowledge. There's a difference between sharing one's knowledge and experiences, and acting as a "teacher". This is what the forum rules try to keep out; people who want to come in and claim themselves as our 'teachers'. But there's nothing wrong with sharing the truths you've learned--there's no reason to hesitate or feel "shut down" here.
The only problem I saw with your comments is that it appeared, to me, that you are acting superior to us. If this is not how you meant it, then I do apologize. But that's how your comments sounded.
so what if i say i am never wrong?
There's only One who is "never wrong" and that's God. Even Christ Himself was offended when someone called Him "Good Teacher". [Matthew 19:17]. So, that's what's wrong with that... taking a stance that even Jesus didn't take.
how does anyone really know what godly humility really looks like - when the only thing you can compare it with is your own limited experience based on the way dumb animals behave?
I don't know who this was directed to, but I, for the record, base my knowledge of Godly humility on how Jesus Christ acted; and how His Apostles acted after their conversion. I feel I've gotten pretty good at recognizing a person who is genuinely seeking to be like Christ, and a person who is trying to draw glory to themselves, and raise themselves up above those around him. [aka. "the beast" "the antichrist"... I'm getting really good at recognizing this guy... especially when I see him in the mirror...]
But above all, we aren't your enemies here. Again, if I've misunderstood the intentions of your comments, then I do apologize. I am human, and I have no problem admitting to making mistakes as I do them all too often.
God Bless you, brother,
Daywalker. 8)
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how does anyone really know what godly humility really looks like - when the only thing you can compare it with is your own limited experience based on the way dumb animals behave?
paul called the galatians fools.
he said the corinthians had NO KNOWLEDGE OF GOD.
james said the 12 tribes he was writing to ( christians) were a bunch of murderous adulteresses that showed evil partiality.
to equate gentleness in an earthly sense with true humility is unscriptural. sorry that is just a fact.
i am humble. i have been humble for quite sometime now. but you would not know that about me. someone asked if there were apostles and i gave a detailed scriptural answer. based on what i proved to be a errant statement.
( that apostles dont call themselves apostles!)
so what if i say i am never wrong? i also dont go beyond what God has shown me-
( Ro. 15:18 For I will not presume to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me, resulting in the obedience of the Gentiles by word and deed...)
and He has shown me A LOT! but only in comparison to what i have seen from everyone else i have encountered, including Ray Smith. so what?
but because of the forum rules that i agreed to, i am not allowed to teach.
but doesnt everyone really " teach" when they give their opinion?
i could add immeasurable value here but i am not allowed. i have been shut down.
regards,
a nobody
2 cor 12:11
2 cor 12:11
Your answers where not "scriptural" believer to the point at hand. You didn't address the matter. All you did was re-assure us that paul was indeed an apostle of God. We never doubted this. This was not what was in question.
Those who boast about "being humble" are people i am very weary of and careful about.
I always said, the truth stands out for itself. The truth speaks for itself. When something is true, no one can deny it without looking like a complete fool.
The same goes for being humble, if you are so humble, this godly trait which you claim to possess will show for itself. However, one who boasts such a trait, is one i am vigiliantly watchful of.
Furthermore, why boast about how much you know? Why boast about what "Christ has shown you?" Don't you know that what you have been shown is not because of anything you've done or anything you are but rather because of Gods love and grace towards you? Why would you use this as a weapon against your brothers and sisters? That is terrible. Something no one should ever do. Have you ever heard ray boast about how much he knows?
See, i personally see ray as a spiritual giant, atleast amongst us here and no, i'm not idolizing him or putting him on a pedestal. The reason however i do see him as thus is because hes never boasted about what he knows. He doesn't put down other people, he doesn't claim to never be wrong. He has always shown the utmost of care and love for all of God's creation. Wether they are "dumb animals" or intelligent men like richard dawkins.
I'm not trying to come off rude or mean, but i cannot sit here and claim to agree with you.
I am still shocked that you would persist this attitude of "so what if i say i am never wrong? i also dont go beyond what God has shown me"
That is just.. to me thats a red flag. We are all human and therefor all falible. You are not above this.
The carnal mind can be very decieving and the human heart is exceedingly week. Becareful.
I say this all to you with the utmost of love.
In Christ,
Alex
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how does anyone really know what godly humility really looks like - when the only thing you can compare it with is your own limited experience based on the way dumb animals behave?
Hello Believerx,
You could probably run circles around me when it comes to knowledge of the Bible, I don't doubt. There are people here, that compared to them I am a child. I would care to comment on a small part of your post. I have always felt that God's Name should
be capitalized. If this was unintentional on your part then so be it.
I do have very limited experience of the Gift of Christ's saving Grace and that I cannot deny. Believe me , I very experienced with
lying, cheating, stealing, hating-murdering, lusting, swearing and cursing and breaking God's Spiritual Laws thousands and thousands and
thousands of times. After many years, God is slowly removing these evil character trait from me. and each time I get that ruler across
my backside it causes humility and shame. How much is still within me, and how far I have to be taken is unknown. What I do understand
is that I have a very long way to go.
Sometimes I feel as if dumb animals are closer to the Creator than myself. When I look in the mirror I see a not so dumb beast. I certainly did not post this to offend you in any way my friend.
In His Name,
Bluzman
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how does anyone really know what godly humility really looks like - when the only thing you can compare it with is your own limited experience based on the way dumb animals behave?
paul called the galatians fools.
he said the corinthians had NO KNOWLEDGE OF GOD.
james said the 12 tribes he was writing to ( christians) were a bunch of murderous adulteresses that showed evil partiality.
to equate gentleness in an earthly sense with true humility is unscriptural. sorry that is just a fact.
i am humble. i have been humble for quite sometime now. but you would not know that about me. someone asked if there were apostles and i gave a detailed scriptural answer. based on what i proved to be a errant statement.
( that apostles dont call themselves apostles!)
so what if i say i am never wrong? i also dont go beyond what God has shown me-
( Ro. 15:18 For I will not presume to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me, resulting in the obedience of the Gentiles by word and deed...)
and He has shown me A LOT! but only in comparison to what i have seen from everyone else i have encountered, including Ray Smith. so what?
but because of the forum rules that i agreed to, i am not allowed to teach.
but doesnt everyone really " teach" when they give their opinion?
i could add immeasurable value here but i am not allowed. i have been shut down.
regards,
a nobody
2 cor 12:11
2 cor 12:11
This may be time for a bit of timber clearing, a blind man can stumble into a ditch. If it is deep enough and he has no one to pick him up, how will he get out. GOD uses the foolishness of preaching to catch the wise in their own craftiness, are you wise enough to understand this.
Please respect another man's house and do not come in and start throwing mud on all his things. So far you have slighted and sometimes just insulted with crass words, things you should understand but show no true understanding of. The fruit in this tree can always use water; pruning comes from our teacher and Chastising and Grace, from The Holy Spirit Of GOD And our Lord Jesus Christ.
Many that come here would like to teach, if that is so, learn first then go and find your own following. Read the Scriptures below and see if you think it right what you are doing.
Mat 7: 1-29 (Revised Version)
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured unto you.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me cast out the mote out of thine eye; and lo, the beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast your pearls before the swine, lest haply they trample them under their feet, and turn and rend you.
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 for every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9 Or what man is there of you, who, if his son shall ask him for a loaf, will give him a stone;
10 or if he shall ask for a fish, will give him a serpent?
11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
12 All things therefore whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, even so do ye also unto them: for this is the law and the prophets.
13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many be they that enter in thereby.
14 For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few be they that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.
16 By their fruits ye shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 [b]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.[/b]
The FATHER'S WILL Is, That We Love GOD First, and that we Love one another (each other); not put down one another by using revealed knowledge as a club on the brethren.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out devils, and by thy name do many mighty works?
Mighty works are great, if they bring forth fruit fit for The kingdom. Are you doing this; where?.
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Every one therefore which heareth these words of mine, and doeth them, shall be likened unto a wise man, which built his house upon the rock:
25 and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon the rock.
26 And every one that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and smote upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall thereof.
28 And it came to pass, when Jesus ended these words, the multitudes were astonished at his teaching:
29 for he taught them as one having authority, and not as their scribes.
Rom 12: 3-9 (EMTV)
3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself too highly, beyond what you should think, but to think soberly, as God has imparted to each one a measure of faith.
4 For just as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function,
5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.
6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace having been given to us, let us use them: whether prophecy, let us prophecy according to the proportion of faith;
7 whether ministry, let us use it in our ministry; whether teaching; in the teaching;
8 whether exhorting, in the exhortation; whether sharing, with simplicity; whether leading, with diligence; whether showing mercy, with cheerfulness.
9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor that which is evil. Cling to that which is good.
george. :)
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George, Bluzman, Alex & Daywalker,
You have all made some valid salient points in regard to this incredible post by believerx.
I will make an addition in the hope that my contribution will also be food for thought.
how does anyone really know what godly humility really looks like - when the only thing you can compare it with is your own limited experience based on the way dumb animals behave?
This is what we have;
Joh 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
believerx, where on earth did you get the idea that anyone's idea of humility stems from comparing ourselves to "dumb animals" do you have a quote or an example?
The only One we attain to and compare ourselves to (all fall short, even you brother) is Jesus Christ.
paul called the galatians fools.
he said the corinthians had NO KNOWLEDGE OF GOD.
james said the 12 tribes he was writing to ( christians) were a bunch of murderous adulteresses that showed evil partiality.
to equate gentleness in an earthly sense with true humility is unscriptural. sorry that is just a fact.
Yes, Paul indeed called out those in the churches because they had fallen away, lost their first love and were more concerned about being accepted even praised by men rather than serving God. Perhaps you feel you are exempt from these other admonitions written by Paul (inspired by God's Spirit) but if I were you I would meditate on these Words in a humble prayerful spirit.
1Th 2:7 But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children:
2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
By "teach" you might also consider teaching by example, the example of not stirring strife, dealing with people in a spirit of patience rather than confrontation, especially to those who have welcomed you into fellowship.
i am humble. i have been humble for quite sometime now. but you would not know that about me. someone asked if there were apostles and i gave a detailed scriptural answer. based on what i proved to be a errant statement.
( that apostles dont call themselves apostles!)
so what if i say i am never wrong? i also dont go beyond what God has shown me-
How can someone claim to be humble and in the same paragraph say they are never wrong? You are correct about me not knowing about your humbleness when your own words (of never being wrong) betray you?
It is easily discerned that you are following your heart, but where exactly is your heart leading you?
Pro 12:23 A prudent man concealeth knowledge: but the heart of fools proclaimeth foolishness.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
i could add immeasurable value here but i am not allowed. i have been shut down.
Brother, I believe you actually have added immeasurable value here, just not in the way you intended.
Peace,
Joe
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i cant answer anything effectively without "teaching".
this is only my 10th post -since being here about 9 months. because i am slow to speak. i dont need to prove anything to anyone.
once you come to the place that i have, you would understand this.
would it do any good to tell you all that none of you have any clue as to what God's truth is, and the gospel?
i highly doubt it.
i believe God will save all, i believe there is no such thing as free will, i believe that the dead sleep in the black silence of the grave. so what? all of the things ray teaches are found scattered about in christianity. all of them have the same working of error though. it is only the elect that it is impossible to deceive. everyone else is fair game. i have actually made my calling and election sure, because i have the testimony of the elect, it is for this reason that i can say i am never wrong.
and if i am wrong i wouldnt know it anyway. but i havent found anyone else that has sound doctrine. not 1 single person.
my life is an absolute nightmare. you wouldnt believe me if i told you how difficult it is. but unlike the corinthians, i have no liberty to share what paul called foolishness.
there are foundational truths that all here are lacking. but ignorance is defined as not knowing. you just do not know. well i know- because God made me to know. there is no way for God's word to be implanted into you easily. it wasnt for me, but i had no human teacher- i learned it from Christ the same way as paul did.
so ignore me or answer me privately at my provided email address. any truth i share would be in sharp contrast to what you find here, so my presence would be unwelcome.
b x
btw:
godly is and adj. that doesnt need capitalization- when applying it to people.
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=godly&version1=49&searchtype=all&spanbegin=47&spanend=73 (http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=godly&version1=49&searchtype=all&spanbegin=47&spanend=73)
yes my answer was on topic and VERY SCRIPTURAL! there is nothing new... there will always be apostles. YOU MUST HAVE MISSED THE POINT I CLEARLY MADE!
and i never said anyone here questioned pauls apostolic authority- i just corrected the false notion that apostles did not refer to themselves as apostles.
hillsbororiver, all of things you are require of me to address necessitates that i speak the unabridged oracles of God. which i am obligated not to, by my covenant to not teach out of the scriptures.
because when i teach- you get the whole enchilada- doctrine,AND REPROOF, AND CORRECTION, AND TRAINING IN RIGHTEOUSNESS.
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i cant answer anything effectively without "teaching".
this is only my 10th post -since being here about 9 months. because i am slow to speak. i dont need to prove anything to anyone.
once you come to the place that i have, you would understand this.
would it do any good to tell you all that none of you have any clue as to what God's truth is, and the gospel?
i highly doubt it.
i believe God will save all, i believe there is no such thing as free will, i believe that the dead sleep in the black silence of the grave. so what? all of the things ray teaches are found scattered about in christianity. all of them have the same working of error though. it is only the elect that it is impossible to deceive. everyone else is fair game. i have actually made my calling and election sure, because i have the testimony of the elect, it is for this reason that i can say i am never wrong.
and if i am wrong i wouldnt know it anyway. but i havent found anyone else that has sound doctrine. not 1 single person.
my life is an absolute nightmare. you wouldnt believe me if i told you how difficult it is. but unlike the corinthians, i have no liberty to share what paul called foolishness.
there are foundational truths that all here are lacking. but ignorance is defined as not knowing. you just do not know. well i know- because God made me to know. there is no way for God's word to be implanted into you easily. it wasnt for me, but i had no human teacher- i learned it from Christ the same way as paul did.
so ignore me or answer me privately at my provided email address. any truth i share would be in sharp contrast to what you find here, so my presence would be unwelcome.
b x
btw:
godly is and adj. that doesnt need capitalization- when applying it to people.
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=godly&version1=49&searchtype=all&spanbegin=47&spanend=73 (http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=godly&version1=49&searchtype=all&spanbegin=47&spanend=73)
yes my answer was on topic and VERY SCRIPTURAL! there is nothing new... there will always be apostles. YOU MUST HAVE MISSED THE POINT I CLEARLY MADE!
and i never said anyone here questioned pauls apostolic authority- i just corrected the false notion that apostles did not refer to themselves as apostles.
hillsbororiver, all of things you are require of me to address necessitates that i speak the unabridged oracles of God. which i am obligated not to, by my covenant to not teach out of the scriptures.
because when i teach- you get the whole enchilada- doctrine,AND REPROOF, AND CORRECTION, AND TRAINING IN RIGHTEOUSNESS.
You said;
"would it do any good to tell you all that none of you have any clue as to what God's truth is, and the gospel?"
I don't even know if i should continue reading your post... what is there that anyone could say to that?
God be with you,
Alex
-
i cant answer anything effectively without "teaching".
this is only my 10th post -since being here about 9 months. because i am slow to speak. i dont need to prove anything to anyone.
once you come to the place that i have, you would understand this.
would it do any good to tell you all that none of you have any clue as to what God's truth is, and the gospel?
i highly doubt it.
i believe God will save all, i believe there is no such thing as free will, i believe that the dead sleep in the black silence of the grave. so what? all of the things ray teaches are found scattered about in christianity. all of them have the same working of error though. it is only the elect that it is impossible to deceive. everyone else is fair game. i have actually made my calling and election sure, because i have the testimony of the elect, it is for this reason that i can say i am never wrong.
and if i am wrong i wouldnt know it anyway. but i havent found anyone else that has sound doctrine. not 1 single person.
my life is an absolute nightmare. you wouldnt believe me if i told you how difficult it is. but unlike the corinthians, i have no liberty to share what paul called foolishness.
there are foundational truths that all here are lacking. but ignorance is defined as not knowing. you just do not know. well i know- because God made me to know. there is no way for God's word to be implanted into you easily. it wasnt for me, but i had no human teacher- i learned it from Christ the same way as paul did.
so ignore me or answer me privately at my provided email address. any truth i share would be in sharp contrast to what you find here, so my presence would be unwelcome.
b x
btw:
godly is and adj. that doesnt need capitalization- when applying it to people.
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=godly&version1=49&searchtype=all&spanbegin=47&spanend=73 (http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=godly&version1=49&searchtype=all&spanbegin=47&spanend=73)
yes my answer was on topic and VERY SCRIPTURAL! there is nothing new... there will always be apostles. YOU MUST HAVE MISSED THE POINT I CLEARLY MADE!
and i never said anyone here questioned pauls apostolic authority- i just corrected the false notion that apostles did not refer to themselves as apostles.
hillsbororiver, all of things you are require of me to address necessitates that i speak the unabridged oracles of God. which i am obligated not to, by my covenant to not teach out of the scriptures.
because when i teach- you get the whole enchilada- doctrine,AND REPROOF, AND CORRECTION, AND TRAINING IN RIGHTEOUSNESS.
BX,
Perhaps we here at BT should all bow down to you and your great wisdom? Perhaps we should all beg for you to "teach" us all your "great wisdom" that God has showed you? Or how about not!
Even the Apostle Paul, who had been shipwrecked more than once, beaten, left for dead, gone days without food or shelter, etc, etc. etc.. spreading the "gospel", was well aware of the possibility that he could STILL fall away and be a "castaway"! Yet you speak so boldly about being an "elect". I'll tell you what, IF you are an elect, you have a LONG WAYS TO GO BEFORE YOU ARE WORTHY!
If you really knew 2% of what you claim to know about God's Wisdom and Truth, you wouldn't speak so foolishly! BUT YOU SPEAK LIKE A PHARISEE... FOR THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE...
You call yourself an "elect", yet you speak like a Babylonian.
Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them to him and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them.
26 It shall not be so among you; but whoever would be great among you must be your servant,
27 and whoever would be first among you must be your slave;
28 even as the Son of man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
Are you following this example of Christ right now BX? No you are not! You are DISOBEYING HIM by 'puffing' yourself up above your brethren.
There is NO "righteousness" in the words you speak here; only ARROGANCE and BLASPHEMY which you must bitterly repent of and be judged by the CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE OF GOD BEFORE you can deem yourself "worthy" of His Kingdom.
Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Perhaps you should meditate on these Words of God Almighty before your next post BX.
May God shine His Light on your darkened heart,
Christopher. 8)
-
i cant answer anything effectively without "teaching".
this is only my 10th post -since being here about 9 months. because i am slow to speak. i dont need to prove anything to anyone.
once you come to the place that i have, you would understand this.
would it do any good to tell you all that none of you have any clue as to what God's truth is, and the gospel?
i highly doubt it.
i believe God will save all, i believe there is no such thing as free will, i believe that the dead sleep in the black silence of the grave. so what? all of the things ray teaches are found scattered about in christianity. all of them have the same working of error though. it is only the elect that it is impossible to deceive. everyone else is fair game. i have actually made my calling and election sure, because i have the testimony of the elect, it is for this reason that i can say i am never wrong.
and if i am wrong i wouldnt know it anyway. but i havent found anyone else that has sound doctrine. not 1 single person.
my life is an absolute nightmare. you wouldnt believe me if i told you how difficult it is. but unlike the corinthians, i have no liberty to share what paul called foolishness.
there are foundational truths that all here are lacking. but ignorance is defined as not knowing. you just do not know. well i know- because God made me to know. there is no way for God's word to be implanted into you easily. it wasnt for me, but i had no human teacher- i learned it from Christ the same way as paul did.
so ignore me or answer me privately at my provided email address. any truth i share would be in sharp contrast to what you find here, so my presence would be unwelcome.
b x
btw:
godly is and adj. that doesnt need capitalization- when applying it to people.
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=godly&version1=49&searchtype=all&spanbegin=47&spanend=73 (http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=godly&version1=49&searchtype=all&spanbegin=47&spanend=73)
yes my answer was on topic and VERY SCRIPTURAL! there is nothing new... there will always be apostles. YOU MUST HAVE MISSED THE POINT I CLEARLY MADE!
and i never said anyone here questioned pauls apostolic authority- i just corrected the false notion that apostles did not refer to themselves as apostles.
hillsbororiver, all of things you are require of me to address necessitates that i speak the unabridged oracles of God. which i am obligated not to, by my covenant to not teach out of the scriptures.
because when i teach- you get the whole enchilada- doctrine,AND REPROOF, AND CORRECTION, AND TRAINING IN RIGHTEOUSNESS.
BX,
Perhaps we here at BT should all bow down to you and your great wisdom? Perhaps we should all beg for you to "teach" us all your "great wisdom" that God has showed you? Or how about not!
Even the Apostle Paul, who had been shipwrecked more than once, beaten, left for dead, gone days without food or shelter, etc, etc. etc.. spreading the "gospel", was well aware of the possibility that he could STILL fall away and be a "castaway"! Yet you speak so boldly about being an "elect". I'll tell you what, IF you are an elect, you have a LONG WAYS TO GO BEFORE YOU ARE WORTHY!
If you really knew 2% of what you claim to know about God's Wisdom and Truth, you wouldn't speak so foolishly! BUT YOU SPEAK LIKE A PHARISEE... FOR THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE...
You call yourself an "elect", yet you speak like a Babylonian.
Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them to him and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them.
26 It shall not be so among you; but whoever would be great among you must be your servant,
27 and whoever would be first among you must be your slave;
28 even as the Son of man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
Are you following this example of Christ right now BX? No you are not! You are DISOBEYING HIM by 'puffing' yourself up above your brethren.
There is NO "righteousness" in the words you speak here; only ARROGANCE and BLASPHEMY which you must bitterly repent of and be judged by the CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE OF GOD BEFORE you can deem yourself "worthy" of His Kingdom.
Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Perhaps you should meditate on these Words of God Almighty before your next post BX.
May God shine His Light on your darkened heart,
Christopher. 8)
WOW!
MY DARKENED HEART? I AM A PHARISEE? I SPEAK LIKE A BABYLONIAN?
HA HA HA!
1Why are the nations in an uproar
And the peoples devising a vain thing?
2The kings of the earth take their stand
And the rulers take counsel together
Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying,
3"Let us tear their fetters apart
And cast away their cords from us!"
4He who sits in the heavens laughs,
The Lord scoffs at them.
I GUESS THE MODERATORS WILL LET YOUR CHILDISH VAIN IMAGININGS PASS WHILE I CONTINUE TO BE INSULTED. who did i personally insult? i said someone erred greatly. then backed it up with more than 20 verses.
APOSTLES KNOW THEY ARE APOSTLES AND THEY MAKE NO BONES ABOUT IT NOR DO THEY PRACTICE ANY KIND OF FALSE HUMILITY. (COL 2)
listen sonny,
i am far more lenient than you can know. and what prithee, do i have to repent bitterly of? you have zero justification for blaspheming me! which i can assure you, you are doing. evidently your wild animal, that you say "you can recognize so easily in the mirror", must have affected your hearing while he was growling at me.
2 pe 2:
10and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties,
11whereas angels who are greater in might and power do not bring a reviling judgment against them before the Lord.
12But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed,
IF IT IS A WAR YOU WANT JUNIOR, THEN TAKE ANOTHER UNWARRANTED SHOT AT MY CHARACTER YET AGAIN, WHICH YOU KNOW NOTHING OF. i say this for your benefit. you would not listen to the apostle paul either because he would tell you just how wrong ray smith is also. but because of the suppression of truth in unrighteousness here i will probably be booted for saying anything contrary to ray. you dont think he is wrong about anything do you? what is the difference? is his dirt superior to mine? i am not lording anything over anyone. do you want the gospel? is my truth slapping you in the face? what have i said that you can actually refute with scripture?? hmm...? you saying my heart is darkened would lead me to conclude that you are omniscient perhaps and you have been holding out on us. tsk tsk tsk.
maybe it is we that should be bowing to you!
b x
btw:
thank you for affirming my apostolic status.
-
if i am wrong i wouldnt know it anyway
Oh so true.
Geoff
-
"but i havent found anyone else that has sound doctrine. not 1 single person"
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
-
Looks like this topic has run its course.
Marques