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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: winner08 on August 16, 2008, 06:32:48 AM
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What was the universe before God made the universe? What was the space the universe is in before the universe was? Was there just nothing? What does nothing look like? Even when there's nothing there, there is something there. Does this make since?
Darren
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Our brains hurt trying to imagine it...
We just don't know...
We only know God was...
Be Blessed,
Brenda
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What was the universe before God made the universe? What was the space the universe is in before the universe was? Was there just nothing? What does nothing look like? Even when there's nothing there, there is something there. Does this make since?
Darren
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Hi! Darren
In my humble opinion, nothing means NOTHING. Finite minds cannot fathom it so it's a lot more convenient to forget about it, don't you think?
God bless you brother in our joint walk in Christ.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy UK
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No-thing plus no-thing means nothing.
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Hello, just my opinion; man has many questions that cannot be answered by man, I believe this is one of them.
Ricky
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Hi Everyone,
I guess Ray is going to cover some of these things at the Nashville Conference. There are things in this Universe that we can't see, since all visible matter can be reduced to invisible Energy showing an example of things unseen to the naked eye, but the reality is evident by it's effects. We don't actually see the wind, but we see it's effects. Carnal Man relates to things through his senses. The Spiritual Man cannot visibly see God and His Holy Spirit, but can feel the effects of the power and direction. Even with our high powered instrumentation(Telescopes, microscropes, etc.) we see very little of the Physical Universe, let alone the Spiritual Realm of the Universe. Just my thoughts, nothing more.
Kind Regards, Samson.
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Finite minds cannot fathom it so it's a lot more convenient to forget about it, don't you think?
ROFL. Well said, Roy, my thoughts exactly. That kind of thinking just makes my brain hurt and I believe it's just something that we won't/can't know unless God himself tells us after this age ends.
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Hi Darren,
I found a couple of excerpts from the conferences where Ray mentions this.
From the 2006 Mobile Bible Conference HOW DID JESUS DO “THE FATHER’S WILL”
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3633.0 -----
So we’re talking about where Christ came from.
It said in the beginning there was nothing physical we know of,
and God created the heavens and the earth and the whole universe.
What was it like before creation when there was only God?
First of all we don’t know that there was “only” God.
There was no “heaven and earth,” but that doesn’t prove all was total void.
Was God alone in a giant space of darkness? What darkness?
He created the darkness (Isa. 45:7).
God is not darkness. God is in perpetual light, He’s the Father of light, the Father of spirit.
There is no darkness in Him, there is no night only bright (Rev. 21:23; James 1:23; 1 John 1:5).
God is light; there is no darkness in Him forever.
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Nashville Conference 2007, WHO AND WHAT IS JESUS? & WHO IS HIS FATHER?
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.msg37591.html#msg37591 ---
A lot of scientist use to believe that matter was eternal.
The last 20 years, I’m being told, by the things I’m reading, that the majority of scientist now, definitely believe there was a creation. Now they think that creation started with a big bang, but there was a time when this didn’t all exist, and it came into existence. From where? Well they don’t know.
That’s why I gave you these scripture “all is out of God.” God is spirit, God is invisible. Scripture say all that can be seen, was made from things that are not seen. They didn’t come out of nothing, they came out of what is not seen. Who is not seen? God is not seen!
v
v
And even this Dr. Schroeder I’m reading now, I really like some of his stuff. I think he is really trying to see the truth of the scripture and science. But he’s got this thing of, ‘well where did everything come from?’ God created it from nothing. Now he knows that's not scientific. How do you create something from nothing? Well, God did it. He can do anything. This is what the scripture teaches and we do know what the scripture say about this.
We read in the 11 chapter of Hebrews, and how would the writer of Hebrews 2000 years ago know this?
Heb 11:1 Now faith is substance of things hoped for…
No it's not, it’s the "conviction" or Concordance has it "assumption." You assume what God says is correct. You assume it, you don’t have proof. If you had proof you wouldn’t need faith. Faith is when you believe something that you don’t have the absolute proof for. That’s what faith is.
Heb 11:2 If the elders of old obtained a good report.
v. 3 By faith we understand that the worlds have been framed by the word of God, so that things that is seen were not made out of things which do appear (which are visible).
So the things that are seen are not made from things that are visible. Wow how did they know that, they didn’t even have microscopes by then. They didn’t know that when you got smaller than an atom you didn’t have solid anymore, you have energy. You can’t see energy, you can’t see electricity, and you can’t even see the wind. But the Bible knew everything was made of... it’s made out of things that do not appear.
Bishop’s Bible says;
Heb 11:3 Through fayth, we vnderstande that the worldes (it two words, wor - des and it really means the man age, a were-wolf is a man wolf, so wer + des is an man age, it use to be 2 syllable word -worldes, Bishop has it in old English) were ordeined by the word of God, and that thynges whiche are seene, were made of thynges whiche were not seene.
They were made from something weren’t they, just not seen. And what does the Bible tell us? All is from God, right. All is out of God. You have to believe that! You got to believe the scriptures! As long as you believe the scripture, I don’t think you will find any contradictions, anywhere.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Thanks everybody for your input. Kat thank you I can see clearly now. I just needed to reread the things that was already explained. God is perpetual light. There is no darkness in Him. Would not this mean that before anything was there would have been great light in place of darkness? Being God is all in all. Being God is light? He made the universe out of the unseen. Since light is energy and energy is unseen, God is light(energy) and energy can not be seen(invisible) therefore God created the universe out of Himself(light being energy). Does this make since? Or as Roy said just don't worry about it. that's not a quote Roy.
Darren
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Nothing is a human concept .... No thing .... No physical
E=Mc2 Einstein sort of proved something about the universe where we all exist.e
it is either physical matter or energy...nothing is lossed or gained
So to answer your question if matter was not here then energy would be
Remember it is the spiritual that holds this universes together ...God is spirit.
beloved
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Yes, if matter was not here then energy would be. I was saying since the Lord is the perpetual light and unseen light would be energy. Then God would be the Light that is unseen energy. God would have created all things from Himself. Maby that is why scripture says God is all in all. Because everything is created from God out of God Himself. Just thinking out loud.
ps. Roy I changed my mind. I think for some people it is good to contemplate these kind of deep things. Then again some people should just forget about these things.
Darren
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Yes, if matter was not here then energy would be. I was saying since the Lord is the perpetual light and unseen light would be energy. Then God would be the Light that is unseen energy. God would have created all things from Himself. Maby that is why scripture says God is all in all. Because everything is created from God out of God Himself. Just thinking out loud.
ps. Roy I changed my mind. I think for some people it is good to contemplate these kind of deep things. Then again some people should just forget about these things.
Darren
Hi! Darren
Not a bad question when you look at it in the way you have done. Before the universe or anything else existed, God alone was present. We are told that darkness was created, so there would only be the Brightness of God and that Brightness would be pure energy. So since God is Light and light is energy and energy is power. In short God is the power that produces all things of Himself. IMHO only. I now have a beastly headache.
God bless you brother in our joint walk in Christ.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy UK
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I hear you. My head is splitting too.
Darren
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Come, my friends, and go with me,
Away back to eternity!
Go back beyond the days of youth
Where everything that was, was truth.
Go back until within the past
You fail to find the place, at last,
Where "the beginning" you can see
Of the immense eternity.
Go back until there's not a trace
Of anything but God and space:
God all around--below, above,
Unlimited in pow'r and love.
Away back there, removed from sight,
Where everything that was, was right.
Away back there, removed from sin,
Is where our story will begin.
uknown
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Come, my friends, and go with me,
Away back to eternity!
Go back beyond the days of youth
Where everything that was, was truth.
Go back until within the past
You fail to find the place, at last,
Where "the beginning" you can see
Of the immense eternity.
Go back until there's not a trace
Of anything but God and space:
God all around--below, above,
Unlimited in pow'r and love.
Away back there, removed from sight,
Where everything that was, was right.
Away back there, removed from sin,
Is where our story will begin.
uknown
Hi! chuck
Lovely words, thanks for sharing. I just love poetry, and I see you have a yen for it too.
God bless you brother in our joint walk in Christ.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy UK
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Come, my friends, and go with me,
Away back to eternity!
Go back beyond the days of youth
Where everything that was, was truth.
Go back until within the past
You fail to find the place, at last,
Where "the beginning" you can see
Of the immense eternity.
Go back until there's not a trace
Of anything but God and space:
God all around--below, above,
Unlimited in pow'r and love.
Away back there, removed from sight,
Where everything that was, was right.
Away back there, removed from sin,
Is where our story will begin.
uknown
Hi! chuck
Lovely words, thanks for sharing. I just love poetry, and I see you have a yen for it too.
God bless you brother in our joint walk in Christ.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy UK
Greetings in christ.
Thank you, i also love astronomy........lets think.
before all that was, maybe there was nothing but light, no darkness, maybe God new he had to take creation thru darkness to """appreciate"" the light ?
a time lapse of light from stars reveals alot, yes i realize it is a physical application, but gives pause to one to think of what things might look like from a perspective of NO time :P
ok im crazy :o
God bless
chuckt
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before all that was, maybe there was nothing but light, no darkness, maybe God new he had to take creation thru darkness to """appreciate"" the light ?
Hi Chuck,
That is a very interesting thought to meditate on!
Thanks,
Joe
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thanks ...wild stuff.
grace and love to all
euty
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Euty, she is the sweetest thing. Every time I see your precious grandbaby I get a big smile!!!
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Chuckt: I had this thought come to me while I was typing an earlyer post. God is the Father of lights. He is pure light. So before there was anything there was God who is Light. light is energy. We can not see energy. God created the seen from the unseen. So something was there from which God created from. God is Light, Light is visible, light is energy. Energy is invisible, therefore God created the universe out of Himself. What say you??
Thanks,
Darren
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Come, my friends, and go with me,
Away back to eternity!
Go back beyond the days of youth
Where everything that was, was truth.
Go back until within the past
You fail to find the place, at last,
Where "the beginning" you can see
Of the immense eternity.
Go back until there's not a trace
Of anything but God and space:
God all around--below, above,
Unlimited in pow'r and love.
Away back there, removed from sight,
Where everything that was, was right.
Away back there, removed from sin,
Is where our story will begin.
uknown
Hi! chuck
Lovely words, thanks for sharing. I just love poetry, and I see you have a yen for it too.
God bless you brother in our joint walk in Christ.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy UK
Hi! Chuck
Commenting on your love for poetry I forgot to respond to your ?? subject.
Well I tend to agree with Darren. Before darkness was created there was just pure Light which of course was the Father. The Father is the source of all energy and power and I believe it was this energy that was drawn from the Father by His Begotten Son, our Creator God the Word, to create all things. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the [Word was God.[/u] He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." (Jn.1:1-3). I think that answers your question.
God bless you brother in our joint walk in Christ.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy UK
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Amen, yes that was my point on the light thing, i too beleive there was no darkness, only light, seems maybe God knows what he doing eh :o
its fun to ponder these things as mere mortals.
God bless yall too!!!
inChrist
chuckt