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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Joey Porter on July 15, 2008, 03:28:26 AM
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Has anyone noticed that the gospel of Luke paints a picture of a much closer relationship between the Lord and His disciples than the other two synoptic gospels do?
Here are some examples. Pay special attention to the underlined parts of these scriptures for a revealing truth. I will post the same account from each gospel:
Matthew 4
18As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. 19"Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men." 20At once they left their nets and followed him.
21Going on from there, he saw two other brothers, James son of Zebedee and his brother John. They were in a boat with their father Zebedee, preparing their nets. Jesus called them, 22and immediately they left the boat and their father and followed him
Mark 1
16As Jesus walked beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and his brother Andrew casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. 17"Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men." 18At once they left their nets and followed him.
19When he had gone a little farther, he saw James son of Zebedee and his brother John in a boat, preparing their nets. 20Without delay he called them, and they left their father Zebedee in the boat with the hired men and followed him.
Luke 5
8When Simon Peter saw this, he fell at Jesus' knees and said, "Go away from me, Lord; I am a sinful man!" 9For he and all his companions were astonished at the catch of fish they had taken, 10and so were James and John, the sons of Zebedee, Simon's partners. Then Jesus said to Simon, "Don't be afraid; from now on you will catch men." 11So they pulled their boats up on shore, left everything and followed him.
With all of the similarities, only Luke tells us the disciples "left everything" to follow the Lord. The other two gospels simply tell us they left specific things left behind.
This type of theme is clear and consistent all throughout the book of Luke. I will post just a few more examples, but there are many that could be shown.
Matthew 9
9As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector's booth. "Follow me," he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him.
Mark 2
14As he walked along, he saw Levi son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax collector's booth. "Follow me," Jesus told him, and Levi got up and followed him.
Luke 5
27After this, Jesus went out and saw a tax collector by the name of Levi sitting at his tax booth. "Follow me," Jesus said to him, 28and Levi got up, left everything and followed him.
In this case, Matthew and Mark don't mention Matthew leaving anything behind. However, Luke, again, mentions leaving everything.
Let's look at an interesting difference pertaining to what happened just after the transfiguration:
Matthew 17
9As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, "Don't tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."
Mark 9
9As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus gave them orders not to tell anyone what they had seen until the Son of Man had risen from the dead.
Luke 9
37The next day, when they came down from the mountain, a large crowd met him.
Luke has two differences that we notice here, but the primary one I want to focus on for now is the fact that Luke specifies to us that the Lord spent an extra night on that mountain with His disciples. The other two gospels give no indication that they spent the night together on the mountain.
Another example consistent with this theme:
Matthew 26
28This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Mark 14
24"This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many," he said to them.
Luke 22
20In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
In Matthew and Mark, His blood is poured out for many. In Luke, His blood is poured out for the disciples.
Another interesting observation. After the Passover meal (and just before the crucifixion process was about to begin), we see the Lord telling His disciples in Matthew and Mark that they will all fall away.
Matthew 26
30When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.
31Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: " 'I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.' 32But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee."
Mark 14
26When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.
27"You will all fall away," Jesus told them, "for it is written: " 'I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.' 28But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee."
You can go ahead and read the Luke account in your bible, and you will see that He does not tell them that they will fall away.
Going further, we see:
Matthew 26
55At that time Jesus said to the crowd, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. 56But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled." Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.
Mark 14
48"Am I leading a rebellion," said Jesus, "that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? 49Every day I was with you, teaching in the temple courts, and you did not arrest me. But the Scriptures must be fulfilled." 50Then everyone deserted him and fled.
By now, it should come as no surprise to anyone reading this that Luke does not mention the disciples deserting Him.
Luke 22
52Then Jesus said to the chief priests, the officers of the temple guard, and the elders, who had come for him, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come with swords and clubs? 53Every day I was with you in the temple courts, and you did not lay a hand on me. But this is your hour—when darkness reigns."
Nowhere in the Luke account of the Lord being arrested is it mentioned that the disciples deserted Him.
Here is another interesting difference to take into account. This pertains to the time in which the disciples realized that the Lord had risen.
Matthew 28
19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
Mark 16
15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.
Luke 24
49I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."
In Matthew and Mark, He instructs them to "go," but in Luke, He instructs them to "stay." Also, only Luke mentions the disciples receiving what the Father promised, and only Luke mentions the disciples being "clothed with power from on high."
One more thing I would like to mention (although, there are so many - maybe dozens more - similar differences that I could point out.):
Only in Luke do we see it mentioned that:
Luke 24
45Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
This statement is found nowhere in Matthew or Mark.
So, the question is, why do we see Luke's recollection of these events differing from the other two gospels in such a way that it paints a far closer relationship between the Lord and His disciples than do the other two gospels?
Why, in Luke ONLY:
-do the disciples "leave everything?"
-did He spend an extra night with the disciples on the mount of transfiguration?
-did He tell the disciples His blood was to be poured out for them, as opposed to "many?"
-did He NOT tell the disciples that they would desert Him?
-is it not mentioned that the disciples deserted Him?
-did He tell the disciples that they were to stay in the city until clothed with power from on high?
-is it mentioned that He opened their minds to understand the scriptures?
If anyone is interested in more of these differences, I will be happy to list more. I assure you, there are many more differences such as this, and they all fit the theme that we have seen here.
So, what is Luke trying to tell us here?
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What are you implying then....that the bible contradicts? I am still young in my walk, with having my eyes opened, but I do not understand the significants of this....also, do we have the correct translation etc. etc.
Love in Christ
Heidi
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Hi Heidi,
I don't believe Joey is saying the Bible contradicts as in being in error or having mistakes but rather that these differences have a deeper meaning and they are consistant with other verses that show the entire Bible is a parable and a riddle.
Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.
Eze 17:2 Son of man, put forth a riddle and speak a parable unto the house of Israel;
1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
It seems rather obvious that the Gospel of Luke is showing a closer relationship with the Lord, but does it only pertain to the 12 or is this perhaps speaking of His elect as well? You know John's Gospel also shows a deeper relationship between Jesus and His disciples.
Is it a coincidence that both Luke and John were given an extra work (duty, mission) besides writing their Gospels, Luke was the writer (at least most) of Acts of the Apostles and of course John was the writer of the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
There is so much to be learned about the depth of wisdom in His Word.
Peace,
Joe
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Heidi, we have a sort of Hollywood view of what the ministry of Christ was like on the earth. But a few things to consider that are borne out in Scripture are that 1. From the time He started his ministry of miracles, Jesus (and his disciples) were constantly mobbed. It was no easy task to walk the streets. They often had to take extraordinary steps to get some measure of peace. Think 'Beatlemania' and you have a closer understanding than Hollywood's respectful distance. 2. In addition to his chosen twelve apostles, he had or gathered at least 120 disciples who were close to Him and travelled often with Him. 3. Not all of the apostles were with Jesus at every moment. Often certain of them were sent to do some particular duty or another. 4. John tells us at the end of his gospel that if all the things that Jesus said and did in His life among us were to be written down, the whole world could not contain the books. So we don't (and can't) have a full account, but we have every inspired Word that God intended us to have.
And Joe is right...even what we have is not intended to be immediately understood at every level. On the surface is truth. Beneath the surface is truth spiritually discerned. As deep as you want to go are further strands of Truth. None of it contradicts, though sometimes interpretation (which includes translation) does. In fact, it's when you THINK you find something that contradicts that you are, with further study and prayer, on the brink of a great understanding. That's one of Ray's great strengths as a teacher.
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Wow Joey: I never notice this. Thanks. Will wonders ever cease?
Darren
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Wasn't Luke believed to be Greek and a Physician?
That may account for his close attention to the "Relationship",
if your a gentile, some would have seen him as an outsider?
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Hey Joey,
The book of Luke is my favorite of the (Matthew, Mark, Luke & John).
Jeff
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Thank you Joe and Dave,
Your explanation to Heidi was good, short and to the point.
We need to consider this approach to understanding the "word" even more and to be ready to have our eyes opened continually. I especially like the idea of MYSTERY being defined as "spiritual secret". God in His wisdom and according to His plan enlightens those He is using a little at a time. Knowledge is one thing, but understanding and subsequent wisdom is a blessing and a responsibility that comes with perseverance and love of God's will for us, that in itself is a gift.
I always have to be careful when speaking to others about what I now know, to remember that I DID NOT think of it myself, but rather had it revealed to my mind by a miracle. Even that thought is a rush of adrenalin to my system.
WOW
Heidi, we have a sort of Hollywood view of what the ministry of Christ was like on the earth.
And Joe is right...even what we have is not intended to be immediately understood at every level. On the surface is truth. Beneath the surface is truth spiritually discerned. As deep as you want to go are further strands of Truth. None of it contradicts, though sometimes interpretation (which includes translation) does. In fact, it's when you THINK you find something that contradicts that you are, with further study and prayer, on the brink of a great understanding. That's one of Ray's great strengths as a teacher.
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I missed this all these yrs. I reread these verses very slowly and I was amazed how such a little thing is such a big deal. It changes the perspective. I'm trying to understand what the difference in Luke's Gospel means.
Darren
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Hey everyone, I'm glad you're finding enjoyment in this study. This is actually only the tip of the iceberg. These are only a few of many, many gospel detail variations that have themes such as this. Each gospel seems to have its own theme.
I missed this all these yrs. I reread these verses very slowly and I was amazed how such a little thing is such a big deal. It changes the perspective. I'm trying to understand what the difference in Luke's Gospel means.
Darren
Darren, let me show you one of my favorite Luke variations. See what you can make of this:
Matthew 24
32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Mark 13
28"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 29Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. 30I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 31Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
32"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Both Matthew and Mark show the Lord talking about how the time drawing near will be like a fig tree blooming, and then He talks about His words never passing away. In those two gospels, He talks about no one knowing the day or hour of His return, not even Himself.
Luke 21
29He told them this parable: "Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.
32"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 33Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Here in Luke, we can see the same things. But, instead of Him going on to say that no one knows the day or hour of His return, we see a different message:
34"Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you unexpectedly like a trap. 35For it will come upon all those who live on the face of the whole earth. 36Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."
The statement about not knowing the time of His return is absent. Instead, we see Him talking about escaping "all that is about to happen."
Also, only in the Luke account do we see these statements:
22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.
28When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."
What message do you suppose the Spirit of God is giving us by these diffrences?
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Well Joey I really couldn't tell you what thoses statements are saying untill I get to a quite place and meditate on it for a while. But I will tell you a few things I notice. Matt. and Mark tells us that the Father KNOWS the when and time of Jesus's return. Luke does not mention it. Also, we must keep watch and pray that we be counted worthy to escape these hardships to come. My questions are What is ment by this generation will not pass until all these things happen? I thought a generation was forty yrs. If so, when did the genaration start? When does it end. Forty yrs is not a long time. As far as understanding the fig tree parable, I don't. I never really studyed that parable before. But I certainly will. Now I am sorry but the Lord has not giving me the wisdom to know the difference in the three verses that you brought up. Like I said I will ask the Lord to give me the wisdom as I reread these gospels and meditate on them. I sure do love these differences you point out to us, it keeps me on my toes. Thanks Joey.
Darren
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Ah the thought!
Luke 21
32"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
The term "this generation" can be not be the generation of the destruction the Jerusalem temple [around 93 or 96AD]
for the scripture also mentions: 35 For it will come upon all those who live on the face of the whole earth.
So what is he saying concerning generation. Was it Jesus' generation.
Contradiction? I don't think so!
I conclude then that generation speaks of the WHOLE generation of the New Covenant Age - that is the generation of New Covenant which was established.
Generations DO not cease - they continue UNTIL..............The term PASS away is the key here.
Hebrews 9:26 Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
If we also tie in the following also by Luke in the Book of Acts, he as an author that mentions times and seasons many times and seems more specific:
Acts 2:17
" 'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. [Speaking of the Pentecost incident in Acts]
2 Timothy 3:1
[ Godlessness in the Last Days ] But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days.
James 5:3
Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days.
2 Peter 3:3
First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
So the End times / Last generation / Last days started WHEN? So the Generation Jesus is speaking of is who?
digitalwise
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Hi Joey,
Perhaps these verses are speaking to a subset of the elect, a select of the elect so to speak. We see in Matthew and Mark "no one knows the time."
But we read in Luke;
Luke 21:28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."
So it appears that there may come a time and season when the (select) elect will see the handwriting on the wall and know when His return is imminent.
There is more scripture that could be interpreted to support this;
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
This really seems to say that things will be going on in a very normal fashion when Christ returns except for a few who are aware of what is about to happen (Noah and his family and Lot and His family), not like the doom, gloom, disaster and desolation like so many Christian "teachers" preach precedes His return. No, the world was living a normal life then ............ WHOA!
Is Luke speaking to those who "shall not sleep" in the verses you quoted?
1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed.
Very interesting.....
Peace,
Joe
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I notice in some of these post on this subject it has been said that in Matt and Mark that no one knows that day and hour. Matt 24:36 says "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven. But My Father only.
Mark 13:32 But of that day no one knows, not even the angels in heaven , nor the Son, but only the Father. (NKJV) This is what my bible says. Is this not correct? Should not we be very careful when quoting scripture. Let me just say I am not being a smart ( you know). ;) No offense to anybody. I just notice that in Matt and Mark The Father does know the day and time of this event. I think this is very important. If not for us, for the newibes who are just joining us. They need to know all of the truth, especially when it comes to quoting scripture. Don't ya'll think?
Darren
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Thanks both Joe and Dave for your reply....there is so much to learn....I feel a bit overwhelmed ???
[/quote]
Luke 21
29He told them this parable: "Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.
[/quote]
Joey...do the above highlighted mean God's elect? (All the fig trees)
Thanks to all of you, I am learning sooooo much!!!
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Dear Heidi. I want to come back to your question.
The Four Gospels all record the crucifixion of Christ. Looking between them just at what they recorded concerning what Christ SAID, we find this.
Mat 27:46 About three o'clock Jesus cried out with a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?", which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Mat 27:50 Then Jesus cried out with a loud voice again and gave up his spirit.
Mar 15:34 At three o'clock Jesus cried out with a loud voice, "Eloi, eloi, lema sabachthani?", which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Mar 15:37 Then Jesus gave a loud cry and breathed his last.
Luk 23:34 Jesus kept saying, "Father, forgive them, for they don't know what they're doing." Then they divided his clothes among them by throwing dice.
Luk 23:43 Jesus said to him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
Luk 23:46 Then Jesus cried out with a loud voice and said, "Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit." After he said this, he breathed his last.
Joh 19:26 When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he kept loving standing there, he said to his mother, "Woman, here is your son."
Joh 19:27 Then he said to the disciple, "Here is your mother." And from that hour the disciple took her into his own home.
Joh 19:28 After this, when Jesus realized that everything was now completed, he said (in order to fulfill the Scripture), "I'm thirsty."
Joh 19:30 After Jesus had taken the wine, he said, "It is finished." Then he bowed his head and released his spirit.
Matthew and Mark record pretty much the same thing, and nothing else that Jesus said from the Cross. Luke records three 'sayings' none of which is recorded by Matthew and Mark. John adds three or four (depending on how you count them) again NOT recorded by the other three Gospels.
If we have faith in the Scriptures, we can assume that all of these 'sayings' of Jesus happened. It would be folly to think that one was 'right' and the rest were 'wrong'. Considering the extreme emotion of the scene, it's a wonder that any of these 'sayings' was remembered to be recorded at all!
In this translation, Luke says that Jesus "Kept saying, Father forgive them." That certainly implies that He said this more than once, and at least leaves the possibility open that He said essentially the same thing in other ways as well. He did instruct US to pray not with vain repetitions, after all.
And in light of John's statement:
Joh 21:25 Of course, Jesus also did many other things, and I suppose that if every one of them were written down the world couldn't contain the books that would be written.
it's at least concievable that Jesus, from the cross, said other things NOT recorded. Maybe many other things. If there were, God's Spirit saw no need to inspire their recollection. We have what we need. Study (and a little 'inspired' imagination) brings it all together.
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Ah the thought!
Luke 21
32"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
The term "this generation" can be not be the generation of the destruction the Jerusalem temple [around 93 or 96AD]
for the scripture also mentions: 35 For it will come upon all those who live on the face of the whole earth.
So what is he saying concerning generation. Was it Jesus' generation.
Contradiction? I don't think so!
I conclude then that generation speaks of the WHOLE generation of the New Covenant Age - that is the generation of New Covenant which was established.
Generations DO not cease - they continue UNTIL..............The term PASS away is the key here.
Hebrews 9:26 Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
If we also tie in the following also by Luke in the Book of Acts, he as an author that mentions times and seasons many times and seems more specific:
Acts 2:17
" 'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. [Speaking of the Pentecost incident in Acts]
2 Timothy 3:1
[ Godlessness in the Last Days ] But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days.
James 5:3
Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days.
2 Peter 3:3
First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
So the End times / Last generation / Last days started WHEN? So the Generation Jesus is speaking of is who?
digitalwise
Here is to add to what you are saying. Since i saved it.
Matt 1:17 "So all the generations from Abraham to David are FOURTEEN generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are FOURTEEN
generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon into CHRIST are FOURTEEN generations."
Now if you take out your bible and read the names you will find that something is amiss.We should end up with 42 generations with Christ being the 42nd name on the list.But He isn't.Christ is infact number 41.There is one generation missing.So who is number 42?Who is THIS generation?Who are Christ's decendents and bare His name?Listen Up CHRISTains I am talking about you.
Isaiah 53;8-10 "He was taken from prison and from judgment: and WHO SHALL DECLARE HIS GENERATION? for He was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was He stricken. And He made His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death; because He had done no violence, neither was any deceit in His mouth. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him, He hath put Him to grief, when thou shalt make His soul an offering for sin, HE SHALL SEE HIS SEED, HE SHALL PROLONG HIS DAYS, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand."
Psalm22:30-31 ''A seed shall serve Him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for A GENERATION. They shall come, and shall DECLARE HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS unto a people that shall be born, that He hath done this.
I Peter 2:9 . . . "BUT YE ARE A CHOSEN GENERATION, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light."
Now here is the icing on the cake;
-----Rev.11:15----
"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of OUR LORD AND OF HIS CHRIST; and He shall reign forever and ever."
Now if Jesus is LORD then WHO is His Christ?
--Psalms 2--
"Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against His anointed (Christ), saying, Let us break THEIR bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh; the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Yet have I set my king upon my HOLY HILL OF ZION. I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, THOU ART MY SON: this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. THOU SHALT BREAK THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON: THOU SHALT DASH THEM IN PIECES LIKE A POTTER'S VESSEL."
The annointed,the overcomer,the few,the chosen,the body OF CHRIST----this is the 42nd generation
The elect are God's 42nd generation. This is that LAST GENERATION THAT SHALL NOT PASS until all these things be done!
God bless,
Alex
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WOW :o
This blew my socks offf!
Thanks everybody!
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Ah the thought!
Luke 21
32"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.....
digitalwise
The annointed,the overcomer,the few,the chosen,the body OF CHRIST----this is the 42nd generation
The elect are God's 42nd generation. This is that LAST GENERATION THAT SHALL NOT PASS until all these things be done!
God bless,
Alex
Excellent and Well done!
Blessings
digitalwise
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Dear Dave...thank you so much for your reply to me. If your read all their accounts of the same event together, it makes it more personal. Jesus is truly the Son of God....His love for us is too much to contain or even understand. I feel so humbled.
Thank you.
Love in Christ
Heidi
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Just found this treasure hiding in plain sight.
The 42nd Generation, the significance of 42, 3 1/2 years in Scripture, :o books of Daniel and Revelation. Now this is worth another look, this field seems to have so many beautiful and costly treasure chests buried in many places. ::)
george. ;D
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Thank God for the treasure diggers.
Roy
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Just my observation, but I see all of you as very valuable treasure bought at a very great price.
There you are, right in plain sight!
Bluzman
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in this scripture:
Jon 21:25 Of course, Jesus also did many other things, and I suppose that if every one of them were written down the world couldn't contain the books that would be written.
was this an add on or is it truly in the text? I thought it was an add on. that is add in the text at an later time.
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right before i read about the 42 generation my sister, whom I am visiting and a devote catholic, with her husband told me that the catholic church was the true church founded upon the rock Peter! I was dumb struck. words would not come out of my mouth intelligently so i just shut up. Then i read this post and was so blessed. I don't know that i am chosen but i do know this forum is chosen. thank everyone for this great thread! peggy
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Thanks both Joe and Dave for your reply....there is so much to learn....I feel a bit overwhelmed ???
Luke 21
29He told them this parable: "Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.
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Joey...do the above highlighted mean God's elect? (All the fig trees)
Thanks to all of you, I am learning sooooo much!!!
[/quote]Hello Heidi, I too have been wanting to know more about this parable. Ray says to pay attention to all the words, and when I do there seems to be more and more questions. I feel that I am in over my head when I try to understand anything in Scripture on my own.
Would you more mature members give us some help on this?
Look at: could this mean pay attention?
Fig tree: singular or the genre of the species of tree?
All the other trees: fig trees in parables?
Why so often does Jesus refer to the fig in particular so often?
I see also that the fig tree is mentioned a lot in the Old Testament.
I have discovered that the fig has two crops, one in the spring known as the first crop and one in the fall known as the main crop.
Does this make any sense?
Bluzman
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in this scripture:
Jon 21:25 Of course, Jesus also did many other things, and I suppose that if every one of them were written down the world couldn't contain the books that would be written.
was this an add on or is it truly in the text? I thought it was an add on. that is add in the text at an later time.
Peggy,you are correct,the entire verse of John 21;25 is a Spurious Passage .
Peace...Mark
I don't want to make too big a deal of it, but whether or not this verse is scripture, it remains true. It's also true for each and every one of us. If we can keep our crazy carnal imaginations from thinking He said and did other things which contradicted those things which were recorded, we can have a richer picture of His life in the flesh. It's also helpful to remember that we can't have our life histories and full faith printed on a bumper-sticker or contained in posts on a web-forum.
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Hi Dave, I posted a few questions just above your post. It was done poorly and you may have not seen it.
Would you please take a look there. Thanks Bluzman
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in this scripture:
Jon 21:25 Of course, Jesus also did many other things, and I suppose that if every one of them were written down the world couldn't contain the books that would be written.
was this an add on or is it truly in the text? I thought it was an add on. that is add in the text at an later time.
Peggy,you are correct,the entire verse of John 21;25 is a Spurious Passage .
Peace...Mark
I don't want to make too big a deal of it, but whether or not this verse is scripture, it remains true. It's also true for each and every one of us. If we can keep our crazy carnal imaginations from thinking He said and did other things which contradicted those things which were recorded, we can have a richer picture of His life in the flesh. It's also helpful to remember that we can't have our life histories and full faith printed on a bumper-sticker or contained in posts on a web-forum.
Dave, thank you for the post.I will agree with you,whether or not this is actual Scripture, ??? well, ,I could not say for certain either. And there are bits of fruit in the verse to ponder.But since this is BT's and we are here for the truths of the Spirit,and it seems that Spurious Passage do exist,I will continue using them until they are proven wrong.
Peace...Mark
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Hello Heidi, I too have been wanting to know more about this parable. Ray says to pay attention to all the words, and when I do there seems to be more and more questions. I feel that I am in over my head when I try to understand anything in Scripture on my own.
Would you more mature members give us some help on this?
Look at: could this mean pay attention?
Fig tree: singular or the genre of the species of tree?
All the other trees: fig trees in parables?
Why so often does Jesus refer to the fig in particular so often?
I see also that the fig tree is mentioned a lot in the Old Testament.
I have discovered that the fig has two crops, one in the spring known as the first crop and one in the fall known as the main crop.
Does this make any sense?
Bluzman
Hello Bluzman...I hope these scriptures can be of assistance:
Luke 17:20-21 ...He [Jesus] was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh NOT with observation [Gk. 'stand & watch', watch with eyes of the flesh]: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Ezek 36:26-28 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land [New Jerusalem] that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God
Matt 7:17-19 Even so every good tree [like a 'fig tree'] bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree [ALSO like a 'fig tree'] bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
A fig tree bringing forth fruit is similar to leaven 'leavening' the whole...you can have good fruit or corrupt fruit...similar to good leaven and bad leaven.
Good Leaven
Matt 13:33 Another parable spake he [Jesus] unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
Luke 13:20-21 And again he [Jesus] said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
Lev 7:12-13 If he offer it for a thanksgiving, then he shall offer with the sacrifice of thanksgiving unleavened cakes mingled with oil, and unleavened wafers anointed with oil, and cakes mingled with oil, of fine flour, fried. Besides the cakes, he shall offer for his offering leavened bread with the sacrifice of thanksgiving of his peace offerings.
Bad Leaven
Matt 16:6 & 12 Then Jesus said unto them [His disciples], Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees...Then understood they how that He bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Luke 12:1 ...He [Jesus] began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
1 Cor 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even CHRIST OUR PASSOVER is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
Exo 9:19-21 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land. Ye shall eat nothing leavened; in all your habitations shall ye eat unleavened bread. Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover. [a shadow/type of: CHRIST OUR PASSOVER]
When God begins to work IN you, He removes the old, corrupt leaven ('beware the leaven of the Pharisees') and then replaces with the new, good leaven ('a new heart and new spirit IN YOU'...'the kingdom of heaven is LIKE leaven'...'the kingdom of heaven is within you').
Similar to the fruit of the fig tree...the carnal mind produces corrupt fruit (works) which Christ is able to whither to nothing [Matt 21:19, Mark 11:14] but then able to produce good fruit through the spirit of God [Luke 21:29-31, Prov 27:18].
Sorry to be so long winded and hope this helps,
Marques
P.S. Remember, Ray has taught us that the scriptures say that all the parables are the same thing [Mark 4:13], just from different perspectives.
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Hey Bluzman. I saw it, but your request was to 'mature members' and that left me out. ;)
I think, however, you are on some right tracks. Follow them and see what the Spirit shows you...just be careful in building doctrines. We're not called to be amatuer theologians, just to test and be obedient.
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Marques, Thank you for your quick response. I will study those scriptures that you gave me.
Not long winded at all. This is a great place to be.
Dave, Me thinks you are being humble. I have read all of you posts, and to me you are seeing a great deal in the Spirit of the Scriptures.
I really didn't want to get off on some wild tangent and get myself totally lost. I couldn't find anything in Ray's writings that specifically addressed this one particular parable. I have a mind like a cat I suppose.
Thank you both, Ches
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We are seeing the personalities of the writers. Mathew a tax collector gets to the bottom line very efficiently, but most we're fishermen and new what hardwork it took to accomplish a task. Then we have Luke who was a physician. His writtings reflect the caring personality of a physician. The differences in their writing styles also testify to the originality of each book by it's author.
Just for thought
Tom
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We are seeing the personalities of the writers. Mathew a tax collector gets to the bottom line very efficiently, but most we're fishermen and new what hardwork it took to accomplish a task. Then we have Luke who was a physician. His writtings reflect the caring personality of a physician. The differences in their writing styles also testify to the originality of each book by it's author.
Just for thought
Tom
Hello Tom,
Please do not think this is directed to you only, as I have read/heard others state this, but why would we think who the writers are in the flesh has any merit on words of the spirit?
I think of what Paul said when speaking of those who seek to gain approval on knowledge of spiritual things by their works of the flesh:
Phil 3:3-8
v3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have NO CONFIDENCE in the flesh.
v4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
v5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
v6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
v7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
v8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ
I have seen many who go down a road of spiritual confusion by putting stock in the 'personality' of a particular writer of the scriptures, ESPECIALLY Matthew, Mark, Luke, & John. There are a number of teachers who speak of 'different gospels' for 'different disciples' and all that kind of confusion. How one book of the synoptic gospels is for one group of people and another book is for another group of people.
One of the best things I learned from Ray's paper on 'Exposing the Secret Rapture' (http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm) was the spiritual understanding of this scripture:
1 Cor 12:25 That there should be no schism [Gk. division] in the body [Body of Christ]...
That is always where the road leads when different teachers wish to adhere to the 'personality' [and we are NOT to be a 'respecter of persons' (James 2:9)] of a writer instead of Who is spiritually speaking THROUGH the writer:
2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God [who does NOT change or have any variableness (Mal 3:6, James 1:17)]
Please take no offense Tom, as this had actually been on my mind a while and seemed the best place to approach.
Thanks,
Marques
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Hi Marques
None taken :)
I understand the point your bringing up but I see you may have misinterpeted what I was trying to say. My point was if we are given the same understanding on something by the holy spirit when we write it down my writing will reflect my personality and your writing will reflect your personalty wither we like it or not. Does it change the spiritual meaning? No it does not. It's just the difference in how we write. If you and I wrote it exactly the same using the same expressions everyone would think one of us copied the other. God choose these writers with their distint personalities for this very purpose. The flesh has nothing whatsoever to do with spiritual context of these scriptures. What I was addressing is the different personalities God uses and how it is reflected in their writing styles.
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness, (amen to that)
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, and are life.
Psalms 119:160
The entirety of Your word is truth, and all Your righteous judgments endure forever.
Hope I explained it better,
Tom
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Hi Marques
None taken :)
I understand the point your bringing up but I see you may have misinterpeted what I was trying to say. My point was if we are given the same understanding on something by the holy spirit when we write it down my writing will reflect my personality and your writing will reflect your personalty wither we like it or not. Does it change the spiritual meaning? No it does not. It's just the difference in how we write. If you and I wrote it exactly the same using the same expressions everyone would think one of us copied the other. God choose these writers with their distint personalities for this very purpose. The flesh has nothing whatsoever to do with spiritual context of these scriptures. What I was addressing is the different personalities God uses and how it is reflected in their writing styles.
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness, (amen to that)
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, and are life.
Psalms 119:160
The entirety of Your word is truth, and all Your righteous judgments endure forever.
Hope I explained it better,
Tom
Yes Tom, that does help clarify a lot better.
Sorry if I misunderstood your comments...you would be surprised how many members bring this topic up (Matt, Mark, Luke, & John) with all kinds of speculative theories based on 'personality', nationality, etc. of the 4 writers. I was summing all those things up in my post, but like you pointed out correctly, that was not the direction you were coming from.
I guess I wanted to nip any of that in the bud, in case further comments diverted in that direction. Thank you again for clarifying things.
Marques
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Tom, exactly what came to mind when I was reading all of this. As individuals we express differently and zone in on a certain thing, not that one is right nor one is wrong but just emphasized uniquely. Together we get a fuller picture, Luke was definitely more educated and his writing would be refined more as to details. There is not a word in the bible that is not true, perhaps a remembrance brought out more profondly but still true. Try writing something for the future and you want to get your point across, there will be emphatic statements, a little more drama but all is necessary to make your readers perk up their ears and take note. You know I always believed the bible to be true but one day a revelation came to me and I still remember that day what I was doing, the weather, etc, The Spirit said(not in words) the bible is true. I have never doubted again and always wondered why God revealed that to me because I thought so anyway. I don't worry or whatever when there are things I don't understand, I don't need to as there are others and we all make up the body of Christ. judy