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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Bradigans on January 28, 2007, 01:56:56 PM
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I'm living with a woman whom I love, and we have two kids. I'm not rationalizing, but I can't see the point of going down to some half drunk non believing magistrate or to some non standing for THE WORD denominized pastor. Mark 10:9 says - What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. God deals and His dealings are in the spiritual aren't they? Can some half drunk magistrate or hypocritical pastor who requires tithes stand in the place of God? i have no problem with getting a marriage license, i just have a problem with hypocrisy and hypocrites. I pray so much on this issue, because I'm not seeking to be justified in men's eyes, but neither do i want to bring reproach to the name of Christ. Also, what did Jesus mean when He said in Matthew 22:30 - For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. When He mentioned the word resurrection, was He referring to the spiritual rebirth into the kingdom (John 3:3) or am I taking this out of context? Thanks, and in His love,
Bradford
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Hello Bradigans
I have copied this for your consideration from Ray's e-mail responces: Jesus Married?
« on: January 24, 2007, 06:38:38 AM »
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Dear Mr. Smith: you argue that Jesus was of the same flesh as man and inferior to God the Father. So, although the scriptures are silent on this, if he was married, I fail to see why this should have any effect on my being a Christian. Do you agree?
Leticia
Dear Laticia:
Actually, I have never "argued that Jesus was...inferior to God His Father." Jesus said that His Father was greater than He, but that is not my argument. Jesus also said that "I and My Father are ONE" (John 10:30). Although there is no specific statement that Jesus never married, there are, nonetheless, many indicators that He did not. Marriage is the fulfillment of numerous "pulls of the flesh," and therefore is entered into by even the most pious persons, with certain carnal gratifications of the flesh in mind. Jesus did NOT consummate such desires of the flesh. He said He didn't come to be served (not even by a wife), but to be a Servant, etc.
God be with you,
Ray
Also,we follow Christ not His Disciples. We could find many reasons not to follow Christ if we had to use the examples of some of His followers. So as for Angels, perhaps they have no lust.
Commitment is a blessing even if the Magistrate is drunk the document is still legal and doesn't have to go for breath analysis to hold up in courts of law. :D
My suggestion...get legal and/or blameless. There is much blessing in commitment besides which you are probalbly considered commonlaw man and wife due to your family arrangements but then again, I am not familiar with USA laws.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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I am not sure why I am offering opinion on this except that your post is so conflicted.
You have a dilemma, yet your are so quick to justify your situation because you think that magistrates are half-drunk (is that like half pregnant?) and pastors have been deemed beneath your nuptial quest.
Because you cannot find a sober (half sober??) magistrate or a pastor worthy to lead you down the aisle, you are not married and have children? C'mon!
Obviously you have conflicted feelings on this or you would not have asked for advice.
My advice? Remove the marital plank from your own eye so that you can see your situation clearer.
Just blowing off a little steam, brother,
Peace
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Thanks for the advice brothers... Keep me in your prayers. I appreciate you all's frankness...
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Hi Bradford,
I think that marriage is important for many reasons. Adam and Eve were called husband and wife (Gen 3: 6,8), so they were married by God in some way.
Here is an email from Ray, that might give you other possiblities.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2721.0.html ---------------------------
Marriage
« on: May 07, 2006, 07:00:24 PM »
hi Brother Ray, I have a question, my botfriend and I want to get married but we don't want to do it with the government. We both know that there is a marrage paper in the family bible. How do we go about it? is that a legal document? please help
thank you
love in Christ
jessica and lee
Dear Jessica:
Any Justice of the Peach at any Courthouse, or any Captain of a Cruise Ship can legally marry you for a few dollars. You can be married in any church or a wedding chapel. There are reasons to have a legal marriage license, that can be of benefit to you and your family in later life.
God be with you,
Ray
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The part of your question about Matt 22: 30, I believe Jesus is talking about after being resurrected there will not be sexual relations, because for one thing I don't believe there will be children being born, but more than that I think that the time after resurrection people will be beyond physical relationships, as I believe sex is for the flesh gratification only. that's just the way I see it :-\
Here's another email from Ray.
http://bible-truths.com/email12.htm#angels ---------------------------------------------------------
[Ray Replies]
Dear Abed:
Thank you for your email and questions.
Gen. 6 has absolutely NOTHING to do with "fallen angels." The "sons of God" and the "daughters of men" is not speaking of mortals and spirit beings. This is just another one of Christendom's fables.
Jesus plainly told us that,
"Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God., For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage [why? why aren't they given in marriage? Answer....] ...but are AS THE ANGELS of God in heaven" (Matt. 22:30).
The angels CANNOT MARRY (they have no 'marriage apparatus' if you know what I mean). Yet we are told in Gen. 6:2, that "they took them WIVES of all which they chose." To have a "wife" one must be "MARRIED." The sons of God and the daughters of men are BOTH HUMAN.
I believe that verse 4 of Gen. 6 is a terrible translation in the King James. Since most translators have bought into the 'angels fornicating with women' theory, most of them have a very strange translation of this verse. There are whole words in this Hebrew verse that are not even translated at all in most versions.
Notice this translation from the Concordant Version:
"Now the DISTINGUISHED come to be in the earth in those days, and moreover, afterward, coming are those who are sons of God to the daughters of the human, and they bear for them. They are the MASTERS, who are from the eon, MORTALS with the name."
Sorry I don't have time to explain the meaning of all these verses, but at least I want you to know that this is not a case of angels fornicating with women.
God be with you,
Ray
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mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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Hi Bradford,
When I was a teenager my mother use to tell me to save myself for marriage. I thought about it I wondered why it mattered. Then one day I was reading the Bible and I came across the word "fornication", I didn't know what it meant so I looked it up.
I found out it means having sexual relations outside of marriage. That is what I needed to know. It is God's standard!
I believe the Bible is God's inspired word and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17
So it is my standard for living.
Here are some scriptures on fornication:
1Co 7:2
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
Ephesians 5:3
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
1Co 6:18
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
Scriptures on marriage:
1Co 7:9
But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
Heb 13:4
Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
1 Corinthians 7:14
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
There are other scriptures on fornication and marriage, you can look them up if you like.
From scripture I read that Marriage is God's design. It is not about whether we agree with the pastor or magistrate we need to be obedient to God!
God be with you as you seek to do His Will!
Blessings, Paula
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Thanks dearly Kat and PKnowler. I really appreciate you alls input. It's nice to have a body I can take issues to through THE WORD. 1 Corinthians 12:26 says - And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. Please be patient with me. I know some folks may feel this should be common sense. I try not to trust my head as much as the Holy Spirit leadings in and through my heart. This site and some of brother Ray's teaching have been a blessing to me. Up to a few weeks ago when I came acrosss some of brother Ray's teaching, I thought that I was the only one that thought there was something wrong with the denominized church. I haven't been to an organized church in years. I take nothing for granted and try not to assume anything, but try to be open to THE HOLY SPIRIT'S promptings through THE WORD. This is one reason I want to make certain it is THE SPIRIT'S leading through THE WORD and not tradition (men's precept) leading me to get a marriage license. Also, Kat I'm going to look at the site that you sent me from brother Ray on this issue also. I'm all about doing things (God's will) from the standpoint of THE SPIRIT in the spirit. I don't want to simply go through an outward show.
Anyway before I lose my thought on this issue of marriage and whether or not it's a ceremony, has anyone ever considered Genesis 24:67 - And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her: and Isaac was comforted after his mother's death? Was the sex that was made out of love the marriage ceremony? Is that the uniting. As far as fornication, would that be taking something that belongs to God's temple that has God's Spirit, and joining it to the synogogue of Satan or synogogue of unbelievers? 1 Corinthians 3:16 - Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 1 Corinthians 6:15-17 - Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot (something that doesn't have God's Spirit such as an unbeliever)? God forbid. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 2 Corinthians 6:14 - Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? So couldn't fornication as far as a believer have a much deeper spiritual significance? Something (someone) who is a part of God's temple thus having God's Spirit yoking up with an unbeliever? Could folks be getting a license to sin and commit adultery if it's to an unbeliever? I know it looks politically correct, but is it God's Word? Folks have adulterous spirit's because they're (like Old Testament Israel) at odds with God's Word. Isaiah 1:13 - Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. They were doing everything outwardly but were still living in spiritual adultery because they were against God's Word. I don't want to do anything to be politically correct, but I want to do things because it's right according to the Word. Whatever God's will is, i want it to be worked into my heart. I don't want this to get tedious.
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I am glad that you are open to counsel and seeking to do God's Will in this matter. As far as Isaac taking Rebekah and making her his wife by sexual relations- I do not know. I've never studied it. I would tend to think there was a ceremony. But I am not going to debate such things. I do know the sexual act makes two become one but I don't believe it makes them married because if it did there would be no fornication, only marriage or adultery. And God wouldn't have warned us to flee fornication. He would have said "fornicate and be fruitful". Just kidding!
Yes there is spiritual fornication and spiritual adultery but I would suggest that you be careful not to spiritualize away God's instruction.
I believe the physical is a prototype of the spiritual. The spiritual doesn't negate God's commandments it affirms them.
We are not to just live by the letter of the law but by the spirit of the law.
As I was thinking of your question a scripture came to me. This is not an all inclusive answer to your question but you might ponder it.
1 Corinthians 10:23 "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is constructive. 24 Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others. 25 Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26 for, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it." 27 If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. 28 But if anyone says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake-- 29 the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience? 30 If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for? 31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.
Do you think you are a stumbling block to anyone? You say you are a follower of Christ while living in "sin". Whether you see it that way or not- many do. I am not saying that as judgment but to get you to think beyond yourself.
I hope I have not offended (too much)!
Blessings, Paula
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Bradford I will give you my opinion on this marriage thing. First of all in the eyes of God a paper or ring on someones finger does not make a marriage. I have been married to the same women for almost 28 years and we lived together for over 5 years.
Now what man sees as marriage and what it really means are 2 different things. marriage is not the paper or the ring but consists of love ,commitment, sharing, being There for each other through the good as well as the bad. C'mon ASdam and eve had no one to marry them and I am sure there was no gold ring to put on each others finger. God was the full authority in that union.
Now it may be that it needs to be made legal depending on where you live and may involve being abble to claim your children and your mate for insurance purposes.
Should you feel guilty because you do not have that piece of paper or ring to say that you are united as one. Me personally, I don't think so.
I am sick and tired of people trying to give there definition of marriage. Loving one another,sharing your life with one another and being committed to one another is a union my friend. In the eyes of God you are both one and you have no problem with me on that matter. I know people who are married that should not be and yet they thought it was the right thing to do.According to who and what???
God knows both of your hearts and it only matters what He thinks not what the WORLD thinks.
Someone brought up fonication. I do not see where that pertains to this situation. If you are both faithful to one another and you are both one that is not fornication.
A piece of paper and a ring does not make a marriage. LOVE for one another is what it is all about.
Follow what God would have you to do not what man thinks you should do.
I will probably get blasted for this Bradford but the ways of the world no longer appeal to me.
And by the way I am quite sure that piece of paper or a ring on your finger is not going to change the way you feel about each other.If you both are commited to one another then in the eyes of God you are already married.
bobby
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Bobby,
I agree with you. People are so quick to point out that God married Adam and Eve and they were married in God's eyes and thus they did not fornicate. But then they insist that God no longer marries people, it is the church or court system which does that. I mean, c'mon, there's nothing wrong with two people loving each other and living together. Fornication would be just having random sex with random people who you just met at a party or night club etc.... now making a commitment (even without some silly paper/ring) to be with that person until death, that's not fornicating.
Now am I saying I'm against marriage, and making it officaly legal in the eyes of men? No, I'm not saying that, just that I don't believe what Bradigans is doing is "fornicating".
That's all.
Take care,
Sorin
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Well since this forum is here because of the teachings of Ray, I've added some links where he has given his opinion on the question.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2679.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2798.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2668.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1441.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,679.0.html
Some of these may have been posted earlier.
I'm not sure living with a person or being commited makes them married in God's eyes. When Jesus spoke to the woman at well in John 4, he obviously did not consider the man she was living with her husband.
I can see the points raised about a piece of government issued paper, but I can't see the word of God giving us a "free pass" on the matter either.
May God lead and guide you in this regard.
Blessings
Craig
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Sorin exactly!! hey I may be from the 60's and 70's but I have always believed thet the woman I wanted to spend my whole life with did not require a piece of paper or a ring.
bobby
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Craig you did not mention that she previously had other men befor the one she was living with. Was she committed to one man? NO!!! if she had married this ONE man would that make her committed. I take from that to mean no. Marriage does not mean that there is total commitment. Some married people have affairs do they not?
Ray has an opinion but I do not see where Ray is the authority on this subject. God is the one in control and I do not see where the srcripture speaks of ritual to make one married. it is the love ,committment and the body as being one that makes one married.
bobby
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Craig you did not mention that she previously had other men befor the one she was living with.
No Bobby, I didn't mention it, but Jesus did He said "You have had five husbands, but" (BUT) "the one whom you now have had is not" (NOT) "your husband" Something made the five "husbands", husbands in Jesus' thinking and the living together wasn't the thing.
This is a decision between a person and his/her maker, I would just say to be sure we are standing on firm ground with God before we try and justify anything with our carnal reasoning, when we do, we can justify almost anything and that is a slippery slope.
Blessings
Craig
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Craig you did not mention that she previously had other men befor the one she was living with. Was she committed to one man? NO!!! if she had married this ONE man would that make her committed. I take from that to mean no. Marriage does not mean that there is total commitment. Some married people have affairs do they not?
Ray has an opinion but I do not see where Ray is the authority on this subject. God is the one in control and I do not see where the srcripture speaks of ritual to make one married. it is the love ,committment and the body as being one that makes one married.
bobby
Exactly, Bobby! If you believe a physical ritual is required to make one married than you might as well believe in physical baptisms and circumcision, etc....
The funny part is, Ray will quickly admit that a physical baptism only makes you wet, it does not baptize you, that christian baptism is a physical ritual which accomplishes nothing, but when it comes to marriage, yes, absolutely, it must be a physical ritual of the flesh otherwise it doesn't count, it's null and void.
Houston, we have a problem.
Sorin
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Bradigan... To heck with the phony piece of paper signed by man, and save the money you would spend on a wedding (just to please a bunch of relatives you plobably dont like anyway) and take her on a 7 day cruise.
Longhorn
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Bradford,
Dear brother and friend. By your post I can see that you are very commited to this woman,your mate, and that you have children together. maybe some will look at this as though you are living in sin. Trust me brother I heard this from the world of christiandom many many times.
I know what i felt in my heart and God also knew what was in my heart and to me brother it does not matter what man thinks it is what God knows that really counts.
bobby
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1Ti 2:2 For kings and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
I believe we are admonished to keep the laws of the land as long as they are not in conflict with His Word. Should we make up our own rules or unabashedly flaunt time honored traditions, especially those that can be proven to promote a more solid family structure now that we are free to the Law of Moses?
Psa 78:63 The fire consumed their young men; and their maidens were not given to marriage.
We can all justify our actions or thoughts when it is convenient for us to do so but aren't we to follow Paul's lead and not cause others emotional strain so that we can be better witnesses for the Lord when the situation presents itself?
1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,)
that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
Pray about this and follow the convictions of the Spirit, I am in no position to judge anyone about this as I have also been in a relationship outside the bounds of matrimony, if someone were to ask me what is better, healthier, more rock solid and more condusive to a better family atmosphere than I would have to tell them marriage, I have lived both and feel qualified to at least have an opinion based on reality not supposition.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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Craig you did not mention that she previously had other men befor the one she was living with. Was she committed to one man? NO!!! if she had married this ONE man would that make her committed. I take from that to mean no. Marriage does not mean that there is total commitment. Some married people have affairs do they not?
Ray has an opinion but I do not see where Ray is the authority on this subject. God is the one in control and I do not see where the srcripture speaks of ritual to make one married. it is the love ,committment and the body as being one that makes one married.
bobby
Exactly, Bobby! If you believe a physical ritual is required to make one married than you might as well believe in physical baptisms and circumcision, etc....
The funny part is, Ray will quickly admit that a physical baptism only makes you wet, it does not baptize you, that christian baptism is a physical ritual which accomplishes nothing, but when it comes to marriage, yes, absolutely, it must be a physical ritual of the flesh otherwise it doesn't count, it's null and void.
Houston, we have a problem.
Sorin
Do we reject Diplomas from High School or Universities using this logic?
How about Drivers Licenses?
Tax returns?
Do we fill out the forms to get a passport?
Do we fill out forms to adopt?
How do we get a checking account, a savings account?
So then legally committing ourselves to our wife or husband is less of a matter than the "rituals" and "pieces of paper" required to do all (and more) of the things listed above?
Is a family more likely to remain intact during the tough times inside or outside marriage, yes, examples can be given on both sides of the question but which is more likely?
In our heart of hearts we know the answer.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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Not all have degrees, not all are required to have passports who do not leave the country unless you are going to Kentucky ;D,ect... These things are a neccesity in those circumstances but I know of no man made law that says you have to be married to live with someone you truly love.Now before some of you accuse me of appling this to homosexuals I am talking about between a man and a woman.
I knew a couple that lived together for 20 years and then finally got married. Were they not binding in the eyes of God or where they not for those 20 years that they were together?
bobby
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This is what God's word says...
1 Timothy 2:1,2,3,4
1 I exhort therfore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For Kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all goddliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our savior;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversations.
Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves.
Bobby, God loves everyone, even those who live in KENTUCKY!!! :-* :-* :-*
Iris
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Ask yourself this is there any society from the past to the present that does not have a marriage ceremony. Angels are created spirit beings, what can men do that angels can’t (procreate) we (man) will be born spirits (born again) we will be born into God’s family so God says “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. (who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did. Our Father gave us (man) a special blessing to be able to have children so that God could create a family through man born not just created as angels. To have a wife you have to be married.
Genesis 2
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
12 Proverbs 14
There is a way that seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death.
Proverbs 16
25 There is a way that seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death.
Proverbs 21
2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes,
But the LORD weighs the hearts.
3 To do righteousness and justice
Is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice.
Isaiah 53
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
Peace in Christ
Steve
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These are the reason that marriage may be a good things as far as the law of the land goes.
A list of rights associated with marriage. Those marked with an asterick (*) involve a right that the state cannot give to a domestic partners, usually because it involves some federal law. Those marked with a plus (+) are rights usually only reserved for marriage. (astericks and pluses added by me based upon my current understanding, and some may be debatable)
FINANCIAL
Insurance benefits
Continuation of lease rights
Community property rights (+)
Inheritance rights
Tuition discounts
Payments of wages for deceased partners (*/+)
Payments of workers compensation benefits for deceased partners (*/+)
Right to enter into pre-marital agreement (*)
Veterans preference to spouse in public employment (*)
LEGAL
Child custody
Adoption rights
Witness and court testimony rights (*)
Consent to post-mortem examination (+)
Funeral leave
Right to make burial/cremation arrangements (+)
Right of survivorship to custodial trust
Right of "next of kin" decision-making in medical emergencies (+)
Right to divorce (*)
Custodial rights for seriously injured partner (+)
TAX and OTHER
Income tax deduction, credits and exemptions (*)
Tax relief for natural disaster losses (*)
Travel and transportation expense of gov't employees (*)
Commercial discounts and other consumer incentives offered only to married couples
(As posted to soc.motss on May 6, 1994)
These scriptures are what is taught in God's Word.
Heb 13:4 Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled, but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.
1Co 7:2 But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.
It is used to compare what Christ will have with the elect, that would show a very positive asspect of marriage.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, His body, and is Himself its Savior.
Jesus spoke about divorce on a no. of occasions, and condemed it, except for adultery, but He says a man should leave his parents and cleave to his wife. It seems Jesus is for marriage.
So I think you should do what is necessary to be considers husband and wife, to be in accordance with the will of God.
Mat 19:4 He answered, "Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5 and said, 'Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh'?
Mat 19:6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate."
Mat 19:7 They said to him, "Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?"
Mat 19:8 He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
Mat 19:9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery."
Just my way of looking at this.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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Bradigan... To heck with the phony piece of paper signed by man, and save the money you would spend on a wedding (just to please a bunch of relatives you plobably dont like anyway) and take her on a 7 day cruise.
Longhorn
But make sure the Captain marries you :D :D
Craig
"Us Fife's are wiry"
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Craig alluded to John Chapter 4 in his post on this thread in that Jesus differentiated, made a distinction between "living with a man" and a husband;
Joh 4:16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither.
Joh 4:17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband:
Joh 4:18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.
These are the Words of the Lord, not my own.
Hebrews 13:4 Let marriage be held in honor (esteemed worthy, precious, of great price, and especially dear) in all things. And thus let the marriage bed be undefiled (kept undishonored); for God will judge and punish the unchaste [all guilty of sexual vice] and adulterous.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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Bradford,
Seek and pray to God and HE WILL DEFINATELY SHOW YOU AND GUIDE YOU IN WHAT TO DO IN THIS MATTER!
I will pray that for you also.
bobby
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Bradford I will give you my opinion on this marriage thing. First of all in the eyes of God a paper or ring on someones finger does not make a marriage. I have been married to the same women for almost 28 years and we lived together for over 5 years.
Now what man sees as marriage and what it really means are 2 different things. marriage is not the paper or the ring but consists of love ,commitment, sharing, being There for each other through the good as well as the bad.
This is true Bobby, it takes a lot more to make a marriage than a piece of paper or ring. But without the legal proceedings there is no marriage! God requires us to follow the laws of the land not just make up our own reality. God requires the covenant of marriage for 2 to become one- Otherwise it is fornication! It doesn't matter if it is a committed relationship. A committed relationship doesn't make a marriage nor negate the sin of fornication.
Heb 13:4
Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.
So the ceremony of getting married would vary according to the laws of the land.
Should you feel guilty because you do not have that piece of paper or ring to say that you are united as one. Me personally, I don't think so.
I think there is some conviction or he wouldn't be asking.
I am sick and tired of people trying to give there definition of marriage. Loving one another,sharing your life with one another and being committed to one another is a union my friend.
Dear Bobby, I did not go knocking on Bradford's door to give him my opinion. So while you are sick and tired of opinions outside your own, I don't recall that the question was directed to you alone! Is my opinion of God's word of no value?
Someone brought up fornication. I do not see where that pertains to this situation. If you are both faithful to one another and you are both one that is not fornication.... And by the way I am quite sure that piece of paper or a ring on your finger is not going to change the way you feel about each other. If you both are committed to one another then in the eyes of God you are already married.
That someone was me! Go ahead and say it, Paula brought up fornication. Bobby, you are creating your own reality. This is not what God's word says! Isn't everyone that has sex one? At what point does it cross over from being the sin of fornication to it being marriage in God's eyes?
A piece of paper and a ring does not make a marriage. LOVE for one another is what it is all about.
Yep, you're a hippie! (I say that in the kindest way ;))
Here is what Ray has to say:
> Everyone talks about how pre-marital sex is wrong--a sin.
>
> I've been with my fiance for over 7-years. I knew I wanted to marry
> him, but we had to wait until I was out of school (I'm only 21 now). We
> waited until we knew that we really did want to marry each other.
>
> We've been having sex for a few years now. It goes off and on because I
> used to feel so guilty about it.
>
> I don't know what to think about it. What does the Bible say--or what
> does God think--of premarital sex.
Dear Reader:
Pre-marital sex is just as much a sin as extra-marital sex. If you want to
sleep together, get married. If you don't love each enough to marry,
don't sleep together..
God be with you,
Ray
Follow what God would have you to do not what man thinks you should do.
On that we can agree!
~Paula :)
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Bradigan... To heck with the phony piece of paper signed by man, and save the money you would spend on a wedding (just to please a bunch of relatives you plobably dont like anyway) and take her on a 7 day cruise.
Longhorn
But make sure the Captain marries you :D :D
Craig
"Us Fife's are wiry"
Now there's an idea! (http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/happy/thumbsup.gif)
(http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/happy/applause.gif)
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I haven't read any of these many posts on this subject, but just in case I want to mention that if you have a job and are paying SS you wife cannot collect unless you are legally married. And you must be married at least 7 years for her or her children to collect on your SS. At least one good reason to make it legal in the States eyes.
Dennis
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Craig you did not mention that she previously had other men befor the one she was living with. Was she committed to one man? NO!!! if she had married this ONE man would that make her committed. I take from that to mean no. Marriage does not mean that there is total commitment. Some married people have affairs do they not?
Ray has an opinion but I do not see where Ray is the authority on this subject. God is the one in control and I do not see where the srcripture speaks of ritual to make one married. it is the love ,committment and the body as being one that makes one married.
bobby
Exactly, Bobby! If you believe a physical ritual is required to make one married than you might as well believe in physical baptisms and circumcision, etc....
The funny part is, Ray will quickly admit that a physical baptism only makes you wet, it does not baptize you, that christian baptism is a physical ritual which accomplishes nothing, but when it comes to marriage, yes, absolutely, it must be a physical ritual of the flesh otherwise it doesn't count, it's null and void.
Houston, we have a problem.
Sorin
Do we reject Diplomas from High School or Universities using this logic?
How about Drivers Licenses?
Tax returns?
Do we fill out the forms to get a passport?
Do we fill out forms to adopt?
How do we get a checking account, a savings account?
So then legally committing ourselves to our wife or husband is less of a matter than the "rituals" and "pieces of paper" required to do all (and more) of the things listed above?
Is a family more likely to remain intact during the tough times inside or outside marriage, yes, examples can be given on both sides of the question but which is more likely?
In our heart of hearts we know the answer.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
Joe,
That does not work, because God does not care if you drive a car before getting your licence. He will not count it as sin against you. But God does care if you go to a prostitute and you sleep with her. So my point is what God considers sin and what He does not. Adam and Eve are proof that you don't need a physical ritual to be married to someone you love, unless of course you want to suggest that they fornicated 'cause they had no magistrate or pastor marry 'em and give 'em a licence. When you sleep with someone you become one flesh, thus when you just have meaningless sex and the next day you sleep with someone else you fornicated because you're commiting adultery. If you remain with that one person for the rest of your life, then she is your wife, until you leave her for someone else then you commit adultery and when the two part ways that's called a divorce. That's how I see it. God knows the intention of the heart, God is the one who gives you your mate. And He knows when you are just having meaningless sex with someone and when you're making love and the two are commited to each other for the rest of their natural lives.
The reason I would get legally married is for the physical benefits of marriage, tax cuts, if one dies, life insurance covers the wife and kids etc... but not because it's a sin not to have a physical wedding ritual. That's preposterous.
Take care,
Sorin
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It just blows my mind that some people are encouraging bradigans to keep the status quo. I hope those who come here to read the forum don't think that "Ray's followers" condone sinful living. Thankfully, the moderators are speaking with one voice on this issue.
Bradigans, obey the law of the land and the law of God and wed your common-law spouse.
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It just blows my mind that some people are encouraging bradigans to keep the status quo. I hope those who come here to read the forum don't think that "Ray's followers" condone sinful living. Thankfully, the moderators are speaking with one voice on this issue.
Bradigans, obey the law of the land and the law of God and wed your common-law spouse.
I can't believe you would call that sinful living. :o
Maybe Babylon is right; we do need to have a physical circumsicion and a physical water baptism and a physical wedding ritual etc... etc.. etc... everything's physical, it's all physical. Perhaps even God's law is physical and it matters not whether you truly love your wife or not, as long as you got that physical marraige licence, you're good to go. And there is no 'law of the land' that says it's illegal for two people to live together without having a marriage licence. Maybe in the dark ages, and OT but not now, not in the U.S. nor Europe or any other civilized society. Perhaps in the middle east, but they're still physically stoning people. So I wouldn't want to follow that 'law of the land'
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There are many dynamics to this thread. The most important one is what does God say, not what we think or believe.
Jesus performed His first miracle at a wedding ceremony. We are not idiots in this forum to have to try to draw away from the moral ethical and spiritual conditions that God would have us adhere to.
Marriage entails commitment. Commitment entails accountability. Both these words, commitment and accountability are adult words for adult maturity of mind and spirit of which there is no guarantee and age does not account for either. Good character and a knowledge of God helps both understanding of the important vulnerabilities and issues both in male and female counterparts to the marriage union.
The world that does not recognize God or His Spirit, teaches independence not submission. The world teaches equal rights not Godly order.
We serve either God or mamon, one or the other. It is that simple. No judgment, no bias, no condemnation. God will take care of that part. We either follow or we haven't a clue. We either enjoy the wisdom of Godly Council or we rebell and do not enjoy the wisdom of Godly Council. Only God can change ungodliness to Godliness and only He can lead our weak hearts into wisdom of His ways and thoughts. Until then....we will be agreable to what the world teaches and we will find comfort in mass ignorance.
After all, it is a really tough deal to have to lead and provide as is Gods expectation of the head of the home, and it is tougher still to have to submit especially if the head wants to be the tail or the equal. ::)
As for me I thank Jesus that He has lead me past all the smoke screens and mirrors into a clear view of what Godly order is and I am blessed in my marriage that has Christ as the Head and my spouse as my Lord with me trying to be submissive which is a swear word in the world!
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Boy, this thread has been entertaining to say the least :)
I pretty much knew how I was going to respond to this when I happened on to some words of Arcturus :)
Who wrote:
There are many dynamics to this thread. The most important one is what does God say, not what we think or believe.
Isn't this the truth!!!! But let us first look at what God has told Bradigan in the days past and what is he telling him now?
Does anyone here feel that by living with the woman Bradigan loves out of wedlock is wrong? Then by whoses standards? For was/is not Branigan and his loved one living according to God's own will for them. How can we say: "That's wrong" when God put it in their hearts to live this way. I am not trying to justify their living together, because there is nothing to justify.
However, Bradigan clearly asked for advice and like him, I thought he had come to the right place.
There can be no division of God's word. Either Spiritually or Physically. Why do you think Bradigan asked for advice? Simple, because God is drawing him closer. The bible does not equate love with marriage, possibly that was the furtherst thing from the mind of Paul and others when the penned these words. Because most marriages were prearranged, hence the term "given" in marriage. So what is marriage according to the Bible? It is the union of a man and a woman so that they become as one. They complement one another.
Of course they should marry, of course they should committ their lives to one another and seal this committment through marriage just as God is leading them to do.
This is not a numbers game, it is not about fornification, divorce, cheating or percentages. It is about doing what is right according to God and his Word. This is what Bradigan asked for my dear brothers and sisters (I think most od you agree)
Bradigan, take it from me......there is nothing as special waking each morning along side your wife. Marriage is wonderful.
Love to you and I hope you listen to your heart and hear God talking to you.
Darren
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I am really grieved and appalled that so many on this board are giving Bradigans ungodly advice! Don't you all read the Bible?
That does not work, because God does not care if you drive a car before getting your licence. He will not count it as sin against you.
If you are breaking the law of the land to drive a car without a license then God does care! And it is a sin to drive without a license! For we are to obey the laws of the land as unto the Lord!
So my point is what God considers sin and what He does not. Adam and Eve are proof that you don't need a physical ritual to be married to someone you love, unless of course you want to suggest that they fornicated 'cause they had no magistrate or pastor marry 'em and give 'em a licence.
God Almighty declared them Man and wife! We know they were married because Eve is referred to as Adam's wife. Genesis 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
When you sleep with someone you become one flesh, thus when you just have meaningless sex and the next day you sleep with someone else you fornicated because you're commiting adultery.
Hmmmm....So if you wait until you are in love and then have sex you are married? And if you stay together for 10 years and then choose to walk away you commit adultery if you go and be with someone else? What if you are only together 5 years or two years or two weeks? Is it fornication, marriage, adultery or what? I'm confused! ???
If you remain with that one person for the rest of your life, then she is your wife, until you leave her for someone else then you commit adultery and when the two part ways that's called a divorce. That's how I see it.
So if you have intercourse with someone for the first time, then choose to part ways, you spend the rest of your life committing adultery? And you are then divorced? hmmm
God knows the intention of the heart, God is the one who gives you your mate. And He knows when you are just having meaningless sex with someone and when you're making love and the two are commited to each other for the rest of their natural lives.
Yes God knows your heart but do you?
Jer 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
The reason I would get legally married is for the physical benefits of marriage, tax cuts, if one dies, life insurance covers the wife and kids etc... but not because it's a sin not to have a physical wedding ritual. That's preposterous.
Take care,
Sorin
It is preposterous to make these things up as you go along when we have God's word to guide us!
~Paula :o
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Friends,
I thought perhaps these scriptures might add to the discussion concerning the physical practice of legal marriage:
1 Peter 1:14-16
As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance,
but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
1 Peter 2:12
Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.
James 3:13
Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom
1 Peter 2:13-17
Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,
or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.
For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.
Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.
Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.
Grace and Peace.
Josh
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Hi brothers and sisters,
This seems to be a very touchy subject for some. I have a question. Can any here on this forum provide scripture or scriptures (we need a witness) showing that God is okay with a man and a woman living together without being husband and wife? There have been many scriptures given in support of marriage, but I have yet to see any supporting just living together. Forget about what you or I think or feel, what does the scriptures say. Are we here for the truth or not? Regardless of how good are analogies are and how we can justify in our own minds....is it supported by scripture?
I found this article and would like to share a part of it.
Though there are some cultures in the Ancient Near East which were matriarchal in structure, Israel's was not one of them. Israel's family life was dominated by the husband (Pedersen, p. 61). When a marriage occurred the husband took his wife from her home and "ruled" over her, following the pattern of Genesis 3:16: To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pangs in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." (Preuss, p. 103). Yet the Israelites "never went so far as the Muhammadan poet who says that mothers of mankind are only 'vessels' which receive the children without leaving any impress on them" (Pedersen, p. 61).
Because the husband was the dominant member of the family, he was given the title of lib (Ba'al) which meant "lord", "master of the house", "leader of the family circle" and not "master" (which would have been ]da "Adon") Compare 2 Kings 5:13, Judges 18:19, and 2 Kings 2:12.
The fact that some men remained single was an anomaly in ancient Israel, as we learn from Jeremiah 16. After all, it "is not good for the man to be alone", and a good wife is a gift from Yahweh (Pro. 18:22; Preuss, p. 104). We have, so far as I know, no reports of women who are commanded to remain single in Ancient Israel. Marriage was the norm.
The wife was to be taken from within the larger family circle (usually at the outset of puberty or around the age of 13) in order to maintain the purity of the family line; but she could not be too closely related as is shown by Leviticus 18.
You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you lived, and you shall not do as they do in the land of Canaan, to which I am bringing you. You shall not follow their statutes. My ordinances you shall observe and my statutes you shall keep, following them: I am the Lord your God. You shall keep my statutes and my ordinances; by doing so one shall live: I am the Lord.
The marriage was official when the betrothal took place. "There was no religious rite that was performed with the concluding of the marriage, although there was a feast at the conclusion of the festivities (Gen 29:27, Judg 14:10)"(Preuss, p. 104). A betrothed woman was, in the eyes of the people, legally married. When the marriage itself was consumated the husband received the wife and the family of the wife received a "dowry" (Pedersen, p. 68). This payment was made because, as the wife's family had given their flesh and blood the husband's family was bound to gives order to maintain balance between the families. The payment of the rhm (mohar, or "dowry") was simply compensation for the loss of the daughter's labor and should not be considered as a wedding gift (Preuss, p. 104).
Now I realize that we are not under the law, but we still have an obligation to the law within our spirit and this law of the Spirit is a much more demanding law than the law of Moses. As the Lord's people we need to be beyond reproach and the only way we can do that is in spirit. I doubt that our spirit with the Holy Spirit would do anything against the law of God or give the appearance that we are doing something contrary to God's laws.
In Him,
Dwight
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Thank you all for you inputs, especially Bobby, Longhorn, and Sorin. It sounds like you all really understand exactly where I'm coming from. Again, though, I appreciate everyone's input. I could also see where Pknowler was coming from as far as me being a stumbling block to someone weak. Kat, I'm not certain about the perks you shared for getting a marriage license. Satan will always try to tempt us to conform (be politically correct) without being transformed. Thanks to everyone...
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This seems to be a very touchy subject for some. I have a question. Can any here on this forum provide scripture or scriptures (we need a witness) showing that God is okay with a man and a woman living together without being husband and wife? There have been many scriptures given in support of marriage, but I have yet to see any supporting just living together. Forget about what you or I think or feel, what does the scriptures say. Are we here for the truth or not? Regardless of how good are analogies are and how we can justify in our own minds....is it supported by scripture?
Thanks Dwight, now thats the question. And I think you will find the answer is no. Now I'm not a biblical scholar by any means, so I'm waiting for the scripture myself. I think we've showed many witnesses to the marriage covenant. If there is not at least two biblical witnesses to the contrary then I think the subject should be dropped, try as one might it is hard to fight against the word of God.
Bradigans, that being said, I don't think anyone here is passing judgement on you, I just think a spade should be called a spade and a sin a sin. I don't condem you in the least because I have sin in my life also and yours is no worse than mine or anyone elses here. God is obviously dealing with you over this matter or you would not have asked the question. May his peace and wisdom prevail to you.
Blessings
Craig
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I'm going to be doing some serious praying and I request that everyone else does also because 1 Corinthians 12:14 says - For the body is not one member, but many. Though the bicep (flexion) and tricep (extension) seem to be in opposition with one another, there overall work is together. I appreciate everybody's (IN THE BODY OF CHRIST'S) input. We are not at odd's, we're making one another sharper. Proverbs 27:17 - Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend. There is no conflict in the body of Christ though sometimes it may seem. 1 Corinthians 12:24-27 - For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked. That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. If you coming with a sincere heart from God's Word I appreciate your input. Ephesians 4:13 - Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. These next few verses here really stood out to me. 1 Corinthians 10:29 - Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience? 1 Corinthians 10:31-33 - Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved. I believe THE SPIRIT is speaking not to my head but to my heart. Keep me in your prayers....
IN HIS LOVE,
Bradford
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I wanted to read the whole thread before I responded. Hopefully this will help us out here:
MOICHAI is the Greek word for 'ADULTRY'. Moichai means BREAKING A COVENANT OR VOW OR OATH OR PROMISE. (...ANY... COVENANT OR VOW THAT A PERSON MAKES WITH ANOTHER PERSON AND THEN BREAKS THAT VOW OR COVENANT MEANS THAT THE COVENANT BREAKER HAS COMMITTED ADULTRY/MOCHAI; THUS, THEY HAVE SINNED AGAINST GOD FOR NOT KEEPING THEIR PROMISE; THUS THEY NEED TO REPENT AND TURN FROM THEIR SINS. (The bible has mistranslated this 'adultry' word so many times; JUST BE CAREFUL EVERYTIME THAT YOU READ 'ADULTRY' IN THE BIBLE AND REPLACE IT WITH THE WORD 'COVENANT/VOW; ALSO REMEMBER THAT IT ISN'T THE SEXUAL ACT, RATHER IT IS THE BREAKING OF A COVENANT;
EXAMPLES:
1-THE ISRAELITES COMMITTED 'ADULTRY' (BROKE THEIR VOW/COVENANT TO KEEP GOD AS THEIR ONLY GOD AND AS THEIR FIRST LOVE FOREVER, YET, THEY DIVORCED GOD WHILE IN THE DESERT BY WORSHIPPING OTHER GODS; (THUS GOD WAS THE FIRST 'DIVORCEE'), THUS THE ISRAELITES COMMITTED ADULTRY AGAINST GOD.
2- I COVENANT WITH YOU TO PAY BACK THE MONEY WHICH YOU HAD LOANED ME, AND WHEN I DON'T PAY IT BACK, I AM THEN GUILTY OF COMMITTING "ADULTRY" AND HAVE SINNED FOR BREAKING THE COVENANT AND FOR NOT KEEPING MY WORD OF PAYING IT BACK;)
3-YOU SAY THAT YOUR ARE EXCLUSIVELY COMMITTED TO THIS ONE PERSON IN ALL WAYS, FOR A LIFETIME (THUS, A MARRIAGE), AND THEN YOU GO OUT AND HAVE SEX WITH ANOTHER PERSON, YOU HAVE THEN BROKEN YOUR WORD/VOW/COVENANT OF STAYING COMMITTED TO ONLY THAT ONE SPECIAL PERSON FOR A LIFETIME; THUS YOU HAVE COMMITTED 'ADULTRY' BY BREAKING YOUR PROMISE TO STAY WITH THAT PERSON AND NOONE ELSE; (THEN YOU HAVE ALSO COMMITTED 'FORNICATION'. (FORNICATION IS HAVING SEX IN AN UNCOMMITTED WAY, WETHER YOU ARE SINGLE OR MARRIED.)
LET ME SHOW YOU A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT MARITAL SENARIOS: which one would you say is the most sincere/Godly/biblical of relationships?
1- I HAVE JUST COME OUT OF A CONGREGATION THAT WAS NEARLY TORN APART DUE TO THE MISUNDERSTANDING OF THIS VERY WORD "ADULTRY" (WHICH FROM THE GREEK TRANSLATION REALLY MEANS "MOICHAI"; OR TO BREAK A COVENANT/VOW.") Due to peoples' 'LACK OF KNOWLEDGE' there were two couples whom got treated terribly when they were living together and having sex before having a 'public marriage ceremony'. The short of it was that the couples were totally committed to each other and they had made a private committment ceremony with one another before God, they lived together, they shared material and financial things, and then they had 'consumated' (had sex and became one in flesh) their relationship before God; they went by the Old Testament way of not having rings or papers; they rather consumated their love and thus became married before God. However, they were told all kinds of wrong and unbiblical things by the pastors/elders/teachers and members for doing this. My husband and I showed them that what they were doing was totally biblical as well as totally legal and that they were considered 'married' by God and by common law even though they didn'[t have a public ceremony. (We did encourage them to go by the laws of the land and to at least get the legal papers so that they can be deemed as 'being married' for the need of binding legal documents; we also ecnouraged them to get the Justice of the Peace to marry them just to have the papers JUST SO THEY KEEP FROM OFFENDING THE WEAKER BROTHER AND MAKING HIM FALL. The couples are still together today and love each other more than ever.
2-My parents got 'married' about 46 yrs ago. Along the way they were seperated numerous amounts of time; there were affairs, and they even got divorced when I was in the 2nd grade; dad married his 3rd wife; and after she died he came back to mom and lived with us for awhile; they separated several times at that point as well; they lived together off and on throughout those years; they live together right now as tho they are married (they are in the common law sense) but, they are NOT married/unified/in love/or in the consumated way. Dad claims to not love her and would never get married again, when really his heart does love her; whereas, mom claims to have never quit loving him, but, she only uses him for the financial gain that she can get from him. There is no honesty here; they use each other, they need each other, they don't even hardly have anything in common! DEFINATELY NOT EQUALLY YOKED OR IN LOVE!
3-A friend of ours was married to a woman and they had kids together; his 'wife' had been secretly cheating on him with several men for many years. When he went to divorce her, she did not want the divorce (she had lied to alot of people (judges, her children, neighbors, church members, and drug his name falsley through the wringeretc.. ) and said that it was he that had been cheating on her; which was untrue. She did not want him, but, she did not want anyone else to have him either. He did not love her, they were spiritually unequally yoked, and she was an unrepentant sinner/liar and still is to this day.
SO, I ASK YOU...WHICH 'MARRIAGE' IS OF GOD/SPIRITUAL/LOVE AND WHICH 'MARRIAGE' IS OF satan? THOSE THAT WORSHIP ME MUST WORSHIP ME IN TRUTH AND IN SPIRIT.... ;)
BE CAREFUL OF WHAT YOU TEACH FOR YOU WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
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I am really grieved and appalled that so many on this board are giving Bradigans ungodly advice! Don't you all read the Bible?
No, I never read it before in my life, nor have I ever been to church, nor am I familiar with Babylons laws. Of course I speak as a fool. ::)
That does not work, because God does not care if you drive a car before getting your licence. He will not count it as sin against you.
If you are breaking the law of the land to drive a car without a license then God does care! And it is a sin to drive without a license! For we are to obey the laws of the land as unto the Lord!
Okay, so in my haste I gave a bad example. But still, we are talking about marriage here not driving cars, there's no law of the land that says it's illegal for a couple to live together without having a physical marriage licence. Therefore, you are not breaking the 'law of the land'.
So my point is what God considers sin and what He does not. Adam and Eve are proof that you don't need a physical ritual to be married to someone you love, unless of course you want to suggest that they fornicated 'cause they had no magistrate or pastor marry 'em and give 'em a licence.
God Almighty declared them Man and wife! We know they were married because Eve is referred to as Adam's wife. Genesis 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Exactly! And you think God Almighty no longer declares people 'Man and Wife'? That's precisely my point. God declares who is man and wife, not some magistrate or a piece of paper. I know Adam and Eve were husband and wife, that's why I used them as an example of how you can be married in God's eyes under God's Spiritual law without having a physical wedding ritual.
When you sleep with someone you become one flesh, thus when you just have meaningless sex and the next day you sleep with someone else you fornicated because you're commiting adultery.
Hmmmm....So if you wait until you are in love and then have sex you are married? And if you stay together for 10 years and then choose to walk away you commit adultery if you go and be with someone else? What if you are only together 5 years or two years or two weeks? Is it fornication, marriage, adultery or what? I'm confused! ???
Oh, so all it takes is a piece of paper and a physical pagan wedding ritual and that's the only difference between fornicating or not? Is that what God cares about, whether you have a certificate or not? How come He didn't give Adam and Eve a wedding certificate then?
If you remain with that one person for the rest of your life, then she is your wife, until you leave her for someone else then you commit adultery and when the two part ways that's called a divorce. That's how I see it.
So if you have intercourse with someone for the first time, then choose to part ways, you spend the rest of your life committing adultery? And you are then divorced? hmmm
Why would you spend the rest of your life commiting adultery? ???
God knows the intention of the heart, God is the one who gives you your mate. And He knows when you are just having meaningless sex with someone and when you're making love and the two are commited to each other for the rest of their natural lives.
Yes God knows your heart but do you?
What's that supposed to mean?
Jer 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Well then, you don't know your own heart eighter.
The reason I would get legally married is for the physical benefits of marriage, tax cuts, if one dies, life insurance covers the wife and kids etc... but not because it's a sin not to have a physical wedding ritual. That's preposterous.
Take care,
Sorin
It is preposterous to make these things up as you go along when we have God's word to guide us!
~Paula :o
I'm not makiing anything up 'as I go along'. If we have God's word to guide us then why is it so hard for you to see that God declared Adam and Eve Husband and wife without some stupid wedding ritual or certificate. If we could only get past the physical.... if only........
But of course you need the whole marriage licence and accountability thing when people are lawless and would otherwise ( if they had no legal accountability) leave their wife and children without being held accountable. Yes, the law is indeed for the lawless. But of what use is the law for someone who wouldn't ever leave his wife and kids
even without the law forcing him to stay with her? It' of no value if he wouldn't ever leave her and the kids anyways, then the law is not doing anything, it;s not making him stay with her since he would stay with her anyways. But of course most won't understand.... and that's expected really.......
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Can any here on this forum provide scripture or scriptures (we need a witness) showing that God is okay with a man and a woman living together without being husband and wife?
Why of course it isn't. God's word tells us it isn't. Can you show me scripture where it says in order for a couple to be husband and wife they must first have a physical pagan ritual with a physical paper that has their names written on it?
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Once again;
Joh 4:16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither.
Joh 4:17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband:
Joh 4:18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.