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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: mari_et_pere on May 15, 2007, 01:27:22 AM

Title: The Bible Codes
Post by: mari_et_pere on May 15, 2007, 01:27:22 AM
I'm watching a show on The History Channel called "The Bible Code: Predicting Armeggedon". What do you guys think or know about "the Bible Codes"? I must confess that I haven't researched them hardly at all. It all seems fishy at best to me.

Matt
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Jackie Lee on May 15, 2007, 01:30:45 AM
It does seem fishy I just think they are grasping but that is just an opinion, that isn't worth much.
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: mrl1970 on May 15, 2007, 02:42:19 AM
There is enough hidden "treasure" in the bible to ponder to keep anyone busy. Besides most people want to use any codes {which may or may not be there) to try to predict what will happen in the future.  Remember God has everything under control, so I do not worry about the possible existence of The Bible Codes.
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: mari_et_pere on May 15, 2007, 11:46:09 AM
No, I wouldn't worry about them either. It is interesting though, and I just wondered if anyone here had researched them. I haven't because it's probably a waste of valuable time. I don't know though, I was j/w......the show I was watching when I posted that failed to keep my interest. I wonder what else the "bible codes" say in the lines and columns that never get mentioned?

Matt
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Redbird on May 15, 2007, 11:54:49 AM
From what I have seen of the bible codes, it seems they are only "discovered" after the fact.

Lisa
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: mari_et_pere on May 15, 2007, 12:10:40 PM
Quote
From what I have seen of the bible codes, it seems they are only "discovered" after the fact.

Actually that's what I had previously thought also, but according to the show I watched last night, they now know that California will have a massive earthquake in 2010, and a meteor will hit the earth in 2012. When those things happen, think of me and remember that I told you so, okay?  :P ;D
OH and apparently, the recent rise of terrorist activity is a sign of things to come! Johnny Carson comes to mind: "I did not know that."  ;D

Matt
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Redbird on May 15, 2007, 12:25:08 PM
I did not know that! ;D Well then, 2012 just might be quite the year, as other prophecies point to this year also!

Lisa
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: mari_et_pere on May 15, 2007, 12:37:22 PM
Quote
Well then, 2012 just might be quite the year, as other prophecies point to this year also!

You know, I do find it interesting that 2012 always seems to come up in end of the world discussions. Jack Van Impe and related minions also claim that year. The Mayan calendar ended on 2012. Weird.....
What do they know that we don't? On a related note, if Van Impe knows the world will end in 4 or 5 years, why's he so worried about making any more money? Hmm?  :-X :)

Matt
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Craig on May 15, 2007, 12:41:02 PM
Van Impe has been claiming the world will end every 4-5 years for the last 20 years.

And people still support this nut.

Craig
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Redbird on May 15, 2007, 12:52:15 PM
I don't like the phrase "the world will end" myself, I prefer the world ending as we know it....the dawning of a new age. ;)

Lisa
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: seminole on May 15, 2007, 12:56:09 PM
Maybe this fits here. When I was in middle school there was a date that everyone was talking about. It was supposed to be the last day and when Jesus came back. Man, I was scared to death! I didn't even want to go to school that day. I figured if it was the end I wanted to be with my family.All the kids and teachers were on edge. when school let out everybody was still expecting it. We are still here though! After that was when I quit worrying about it. I figured God had it under control and I didn't have to figure it out. A few years later I accepted Jesus and wasn't afraid anymore of much of anything. That's not to say people shouldn't think about those things or try to figure them out. I hope I didn't offend anybody in saying I didn't worry about it. I think I have offended enough people! I am just not smart enough to understand all that.
Seminole
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Redbird on May 15, 2007, 01:03:39 PM
Seminole,

True, we are not to worry, just that we are to stay alert during these times.

Lisa
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: skydreamers on May 15, 2007, 01:17:16 PM
Quote
I hope I didn't offend anybody in saying I didn't worry about it. I think I have offended enough people! I am just not smart enough to understand all that.
Seminole

Hi Seminole, you're not alone in feeling "not smart enough" to understand all the end of the world stuff.  I don't think there is anybody out there who is smart enough to figure out when the end of this world/age is actually going to be....if we were meant to know the exact time, I'm sure God would have given us that information.

Matt,

As for the bible codes, I did have an interest in them a few years ago, and have come across a few different people's writings that I was fascinated by at the time.  However, they all claim to have the "right" way to read bible codes...so this alone becomes suspect.  I also find, that these Christians become so engrossed in studying the codes that they lose sight of the scriptures as they read....one lady I know of who publishes her "readings" of the codes, believes that Paul is the antichrist and will not read any of his writings...that's like a major part of the New Testament!!  But I then found out, there is a whole group of people out there that study this so-called "Pauline Conspiracy", and think that the writings of Paul are invalid.

It's hard enough trying to figure out the truth of the scriptures as they are...I've learned through Ray that the real code to crack is the spiritual meanings hidden in scripture...(which of course can only be given to you by God...)

I'm not saying that the bible codes are bogus...I couldn't know that.  But I think they can be a real distraction from focusing on your spiritual growth because they seem to mainly reveal information about what's going on in the physical world (from what I've seen).

Must admit, it's interesting stuff though ;)

Peace,
Diana
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: hillsbororiver on May 15, 2007, 01:19:38 PM
  I figured God had it under control and I didn't have to figure it out. A few years later I accepted Jesus and wasn't afraid anymore of much of anything. That's not to say people shouldn't think about those things or try to figure them out. I hope I didn't offend anybody in saying I didn't worry about it. I think I have offended enough people! I am just not smart enough to understand all that.
Seminole

Hi Seminole,

Don't believe that it is you that is void of understanding on this subject, you are right in line to what Jesus spoke to us about fear and worry. If we have Him who can be against us (that really matters)? I think your faith (His gift to you) has put you where you need to be, confident in the Lord.

Mat 11:29  Take my yoke upon you and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Joh 14:27  Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Rom 8:31  What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

His Peace to you,

Joe  
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: seminole on May 15, 2007, 01:26:01 PM
Joe and Skydreamers, your kind words are much appreciated
Seminole
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: YellowStone on May 15, 2007, 03:52:33 PM
Bible Codes used to interest me, I mean the concept of hidden messages was quite fascinating. However, it only took one short moment to realize how ridiculous the code ideology was. :)

I was watching a so-called bible code documentary on TV, and these guys were demonstrating how you could find all kinds of things, from word placement, counting words, rearranging word letters, etc. All with a MODERN TRANSLATION  ??? ??? ??? Give me a break  ;D Talk about second-day quarterbacking. :)

Is this not a sign of carnal thinking. Is this not an example too of such as these attempting to change the word of God?   :(

Rom 1:25  Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.  

It is however, only natural for man to seek out things in order to learn what he yet does not know. However, Christ spoke in parables so that the world would not understand. The true (spiritual) meaning of His many words of counsel spoken to the multitudes were never understood.

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:   

However, his followers were let in on the truth behind the parable.

Mar 4:34  But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples  

Why would God choose to encode secret messages or hidden truths in modern bible text to be understood only by the unenlightened?

Not even Christ knew of the day or time of his final coming.

Matthew 24:36 But of that DAY and HOUR knoweth no man, no, not the ANGELS of Heaven, but MY FATHER ONLY.

In fact Christ taught everything that he was given to teach. :)

John 12:48 For I have not spoken OF MYSELF; but the FATHER which sent me, He gave me a commandment, WHAT I should say, and what I should SPEAK.

John 12:50 Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

John 5:19 The Son can do NOTHING of himself, but what He seeth the Father do: for what things he doeth, these doeth the Son likewise.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do NOTHING: as I HEAR, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the FATHER which hath sent me.

John 8:28 I do NOTHING of myself; but as my Father hath TAUGHT me, I speak THESE THINGS.

John 14:10 The words that I speak unto you I speak NOT OF MYSELF: but the FATHER that dwelleth in me, He doeth the works.

John 15:10 I have kept my FATHER'S commandments.

John 14:24 The word which ye hear is NOT MINE, but the FATHER'S which sent me.

John 17:14 I have given them THY WORD.

I think the following Scripture speaks volumes regarding this subject.

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.  

Comments welcome.....

With love in Christ,
Darren
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: iris on May 15, 2007, 04:41:10 PM
Those were great scriptures Darren.
Thanks for sharing.


Iris
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on May 15, 2007, 05:09:59 PM
Our "end of the world"...as we know it is when we die which could be WAY BEFORE 2012. Jesus Christ holds the keys! He knows who will be here when He returns and who will be resurrected to judgment and who will be resurrected to Election and Reward. He knows His Sheep!

2 Tim 4 : 3 For the time is coming when people will not tolerate, endure sound and wholesome instruction (Ray estimates that only about 200 TWO HUNDRED people may be following his teachings!) but, having ears ITCHING FOR SOMETHING PLEASING AND GRATIFYING ( Bible Codes, The Davinci Code, over 3000 different Christian denominations! ) they will GATHER TO THEMSELVES, one teacher after another to a considerable number (TBN !) chosen to satisfy their own liking (need for entertainment) and to foster the ERRORS THEY HOLD.  4. And will turn aside from hearing the truth and wander off into myths and MAN-MADE FICTIONS. 5. AS FOR YOU, be calm and cool and stead, accept and suffer unflinchingly every hardship......

Jesus said and WE CAN BELIEVE! Matt 16 : 4 A WICKED AND MORALLY UNFAITHFUL GENERATION craves a sign, but NO SIGN shall be given to it  EXCEPT the sign of the prophet Jonah.

Repentance for any participation or leaning towards the dabbling and infatuations of Mystery Babylon would be a profitable way to prepare for the return of Christ who alone is THE SIGN.

It is refreshing to see that Bible Codes and the like appears not to have taken hold of anyone here in this thread.  8) The above sentence is for whosoever it fits! ;D

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: eggi on May 15, 2007, 05:35:20 PM
Good point Arcturus!

We are NOT to think about these things in the traditional external way, looking for signs.

If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee. (Deu 13:1-5 KJV)


Don't believe in numerology and stuff like that. Aren't you aware of "The Moby Dick Code"? Many assassinations are foretold in that novel! PROOF: http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html (http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html)

Or what about the site that "proves" that Jesus is Buddha by referring to numbers found both in Buddhist texts and the Bible? Example:

"John 1:19-2:11 is a unit having the size of 1550 syllables, which is also the numerical value of ho Khristos (70+600+100+10+200+300+70+200 = 1550), mentioned in John 1:20 & 25. Again, John 1:1-18 has the size of 496 syllables, identical with the numerical value of monogenęs (40+70+50+70+3+50+8+200 = 496), mentioned in John 1:14 & 18."

Or you could take the Sanskrit Word TRi-RaTNaS and "magically" change it to the the Latin TRi-NiTaS. Can't you see how UTTERLY stupid and insane these "theories" are? Shun them like the plague! You have been warned!

Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on May 15, 2007, 05:40:10 PM
Hello Eirik

Great to see you in the Forum with the Word of God sword shining! Those Scriptures fit perfectly! 8)

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: andrevan on May 16, 2007, 09:07:45 AM
I was watching a so-called bible code documentary on TV, and these guys were demonstrating how you could find all kinds of things, from word placement, counting words, rearranging word letters, etc. All with a MODERN TRANSLATION  ??? ??? ??? Give me a break  ;D Talk about second-day quarterbacking. :)

Ha ha!  ROTFL :D ;D, this is so funny Darren, just how clueless can they get eh? Thanks for your post.

Fiddling with codes is a waste of their time, but it's all part of God's plan, boy the "wise" are really made to look foolish at times  ;D.

Andrevan.
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: mari_et_pere on May 16, 2007, 11:52:01 AM
LOL! Well you all are right who call it foolish! And indeed it is a huge waste of time and a distraction from actual study. Great scriptures too! Especially this one:

Quote
2 Tim 4 : 3 For the time is coming when people will not tolerate, endure sound and wholesome instruction (Ray estimates that only about 200 TWO HUNDRED people may be following his teachings!) but, having ears ITCHING FOR SOMETHING PLEASING AND GRATIFYING ( Bible Codes, The Davinci Code, over 3000 different Christian denominations! ) they will GATHER TO THEMSELVES, one teacher after another to a considerable number (TBN !) chosen to satisfy their own liking (need for entertainment) and to foster the ERRORS THEY HOLD.  4. And will turn aside from hearing the truth and wander off into myths and MAN-MADE FICTIONS. 5. AS FOR YOU, be calm and cool and stead, accept and suffer unflinchingly every hardship......

This is great! I love your interpretations and comments thrown in there!

Matt
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on May 16, 2007, 03:23:54 PM
Thanks Matt.

I think it fits like never before!.... :D We are in unprecedented times 8)...but I guess ALL times have been unprecedentedly more wicked. ;D

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: YellowStone on May 16, 2007, 03:41:08 PM
You pose a really good question Sister Arcturus :)

Is the now "time" really more wicked than ever before, or is it our perception or rather reality changing due to our spiritual eyes. Are we now seeing and paying greater attention to the world around us? Not purposely, rather on the contrary, for now we see the "world" for what it truly is.

Seems to me the world was pretty wicked in the time of Sodom and Gomorrah   :)

However, I will say that I too see the world slipping away in regards to moraility, ethics, family values.

I would like to ask you about South Africa, for I am clueless. How would you rate society in general. Are you guys being kind of led down a slippery slope but being told differently? What about the quality of TV shows, music ect.

I am frankly disgusted with some of the commercials on public TV. For example, a father walks in and say's to his teenage son and daughter: "Good news, we now have FREE Text Msg on our cell phone plan to anyone, regardless of the network!! " :)

Only to be greeted with disinterest and a comment: "So what, we have that any way."

Instead of scolding the child for being disrespectful, all "we see" is him saying: "Well at least your mom doesn't have to work a second job to pay for it"

I would not use their phone service if it were given to me, and they expect me to PAY for their product. No way!!   ;D

But this is the type of social degradation I am talking about here in the US. What's it like in SA?

Perhaps, like I mentioned, it was always like this; however, now being in the "infomation" age; we see it for what it really is.

I would love to hear your (anyones) thoughts :)

Your brother in Christ,
Darren
 
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Kent on May 16, 2007, 04:43:22 PM
We have turned evil into a fine art. Technology makes it possible to dig ones self even deeper into the sin gutter, because we are not consumed with working for survival all the time. We have all the time in the world now. All this free time allows people to invent even more evil.
Young people are being destroyed by it.

The family is dead, thanks to radical feminism and their indoctrination of younger women that goads them into hating men. I want no part of that, and I am not alone either. Look up "marriage strike", and it's growing. Even dating is out of the question.

I am 42, and in that time I have seen things degrade to the point that I dont even recognize this country anymore. I shutter to think what this world will be like in another 20, or even 10 years. In my opinion, we will be most fortunate to have another 2-3 more years left before we destroy what's left of this world / country.

These are perilous times, and it pays to be ready, MHO. Our redeption draweth nigh.


Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: YellowStone on May 16, 2007, 05:11:34 PM
Oh Kent, I wouldn't quite go that far.  :)

The family is not dead and I know of no family that is; mine is flourishing.

My son and his girlfriend just graduated from highschool. This school believes in prayer every day and community work to help the needy.

Technology has not destroyed the world and neither is it destroying it; rather it is the lack of parental supervision / control on kids who really need it. Which kid doesn't. :)

Mostly the cause for the degradation of society is the people and their greed, more, more, more. Whatever it takes. Their have been so many advances in technology for the good of the world. Kind of like the old adage, guns don't kill people, people kill people. :)

However, you do make a valid point. Social reengineering is having a detrimental effect on how we see ourselves. How come almost 1/3 rd of shows on TV feature gays, this is totally disproportionate to reality. How come 90% of TV stars are gorgeous and have more "say" than anyone else. Why too, are we always told that x% this and y% that believe....when no one asked me or anyone I know. Why is this happeneing, because we the people let it.

This has always been a big concern of mine. Are we to sit back silently and shake our heads, mumbling....Christ, please come quick. What does the following truly mean?

Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;   

Does it mean stand with our eyes closed? Or does it mean stand for the truth, and not let others take it away or bury it.

Eph 6:15  And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;  

Eph 6:16  Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

Eph 6:17  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:  

Surely, upon quenching these fiery darts, we can sow seeds of truth. We cannot make them grow, for God alone does that. I have always struggled with this. How strong is my faith if I ignore? If I say and do nothing, am I therefore the same as the unfaithful servant who buried what was given him?  All good questions.

Yet, Kent, do you really believe that soceity is behaving outside of God's will / control?

Rom 9:19  Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?  

Rom 9:20  Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?

Rom 9:21  Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Rom 9:22  [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

All of what is happening in this world is for our instruction and benefit. Do not think for a moment that all is as we are told. For I know of know one who has given up on the family. God is working all to his will.

I hope this does not offend :)

Your brother in Christ,
Darren

Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on May 16, 2007, 05:18:12 PM
Darren your questions (italics) my observations (blue) :

Is the now "time" really more wicked than ever before,

Yes it is. Scriptures confirm it. Each era is more vile, subtle, sophisticated in debauchery and more vehemently violent than the next. The glossy heroics cover a multitude of sins. The paralysis of the conscience spawns higher and higher levels of lawlessness and corruption dressed up as social finesse, fashion, culture and art that is more wide spread through media technologies than ever before.

or is it our perception or rather reality changing due to our spiritual eyes.

There is more blindness today than ever. The population is greater than ever before and the ratio to spiritual decay is greater. This is again confirmed in the Scriptures.

Are we now seeing and paying greater attention to the world around us? Not purposely, rather on the contrary, for now we see the "world" for what it truly is.

Understanding comes only from the Spirit of God. FEW are chosen in any generation and that number does not increase to MANY in any generation. It is book ended and as final as God does not change and He is the SAME.  

Seems to me the world was pretty wicked in the time of Sodom and Gomorrah  


Check the scriptures. Jesus said  : Matt 11 : 23 And you Capernaum, are you to be lifted up to heaven: You shall be brought down to Hades, the region of the dead! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in SODOM, it (SODOM) would have continued until today. Why? Because Capernaum had exceeded the wickedness of Sodom and Sodom would have responded to the works of Christ and repented and endured! So which way is the graph showing evil is going? Up or down. According to the Scriptures evil was advancing exponentially till this day. Paul "saw"  it coming and cried and Jesus said it.

Luke 18:8...when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?  

This Word from Jesus with the teaching and explanation is in the LOF series wherein Ray points out that the question Jesus poses is revealed as indicating that the answer is in the negative not the positive. In other words there will be VERY FEW who are faithful and found to be so when Christ returns.  

I would like to ask you about South Africa, for I am clueless. How would you rate society in general. Are you guys being kind of led down a slippery slope but being told differently? What about the quality of TV shows, music ect.

It is like in SA like it is all over the world. There is no haven on earth without Christ who is the true refuge.  

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: blakparty on May 16, 2007, 05:32:37 PM
Van Impe has been claiming the world will end every 4-5 years for the last 20 years.   

Craig, you are sure right.  But my thing is, if the world don't have the mind of Christ, how in the world can they even come close to knowing any such codes that are in the Scripture.  I thought everything in the Scriptures was spiritual.  They can't even see that they will be saved , or God is going to judge them, or anything of the sort. 
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Kent on May 16, 2007, 05:44:07 PM
Quote
Yet, Kent, do you really believe that soceity is behaving outside of God's will / control?

No.

But I am not going to let myself be used as a punching bag either  ;). I am not a friend of this world system, so by default I am it's enemy. I'll welcome any and every person into the fold, that God brings into it. But until that happens I see no point in trying to be friends with them. Be nice, kind, etc. OK, but they wont get too close, because I'd rather be alone than unequally yoked.

I am not offended, bro  ;D
I, on the other hand, can be rather blunt, forgetting that in this setting people cant read my tone of voice, etc. So, please take this into account. I mean no offense to anyone at any time.

Peace
K

Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: YellowStone on May 16, 2007, 05:57:16 PM
Arcturus - My commets to yours in brown P

Darren your questions (italics) my observations (blue) :

Is the now "time" really more wicked than ever before,

Yes it is. Scriptures confirm it. Each era is more vile, subtle, sophisticated in debauchery and more vehemently violent than the next. The glossy heroics cover a multitude of sins. The paralysis of the conscience spawns higher and higher levels of lawlessness and corruption dressed up as social finesse, fashion, culture and art that is more wide spread through media technologies than ever before.

If a sin is a sin is a sin, then is the world more wicked today than yesterday in the eys of God, or the eye of man. I ask this in all truth and honesty, for:

Rom 9:19  Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?[/color]

or is it our perception or rather reality changing due to our spiritual eyes.

There is more blindness today than ever. The population is greater than ever before and the ratio to spiritual decay is greater. This is again confirmed in the Scriptures.

No man can be blinder than blind. No man can see the truth until it is given him to see. Praise be to God. :)

When I said "our" I was speaking of those who can see, not of the blind world. :)  Sorry for the confusion.

Are we now seeing and paying greater attention to the world around us? Not purposely, rather on the contrary, for now we see the "world" for what it truly is.

Understanding comes only from the Spirit of God. FEW are chosen in any generation and that number does not increase to MANY in any generation. It is book ended and as final as God does not change and He is the SAME.  

Ditto, for surely those who can see through the Spirit can now see the world as others fail to see.

Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Is the world MORE evil today than yesterday? Is not evil, evil in the eys of God just like a sin is a sin, for no man is perfect. God does not change in intensity, I do not think evil changes in his eyes either. Only in the eys of the world and those so equipped to see. That included the spiritually enlightened. :)

Does that make sense?


Seems to me the world was pretty wicked in the time of Sodom and Gomorrah  


Check the scriptures. Jesus said  : Matt 11 : 23 And you Capernaum, are you to be lifted up to heaven: You shall be brought down to Hades, the region of the dead! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in SODOM, it (SODOM) would have continued until today. Why? Because Capernaum had exceeded the wickedness of Sodom and Sodom would have responded to the works of Christ and repented and endured! So which way is the graph showing evil is going? Up or down. According to the Scriptures evil was advancing exponentially till this day. Paul "saw"  it coming and cried and Jesus said it.

Luke 18:8...when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?  

This Word from Jesus with the teaching and explanation is in the LOF series wherein Ray points out that the question Jesus poses is revealed as indicating that the answer is in the negative not the positive. In other words there will be VERY FEW who are faithful and found to be so when Christ returns.  

Was there ever faith to be found on the Earth. Could the argument stand that even Christ's "faithful" followers faltered at given times, even during his trial and crucification.

The world was evil in the age of Paul. I do not believe God uses evil quantitatively but rather qualitatively, there is a subtle difference.

Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

I do not believe, nor do I believe that you do either :) that the world is "falling" of it's own accord, for:

Rom 9:20  Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?

God is the master potter and we are the clay. :)  I think you would agree. :)


I would like to ask you about South Africa, for I am clueless. How would you rate society in general. Are you guys being kind of led down a slippery slope but being told differently? What about the quality of TV shows, music ect.

It is like in SA like it is all over the world. There is no haven on earth without Christ who is the true refuge.  

True, but I was interested in your thoughts of the physical changes, the ones you experience on a day to day basis. If you do not want to share then that is fine. :)

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

Thank you so much Arcturus for a wonderful discussion. My only additional comment is that I can see the world like I could never see it before. I see hope and I see sadness; I see love yet I see fear. Before, I just saw ME! :(

Love to you in Christ,

Your brother,
Darren
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Kat on May 16, 2007, 06:24:04 PM
Hi Darren,

I used these charts on another thread not long ago. 
What this shows me is that the population has dramatically increased since the early 1900's and has been climbing sharply ever since.

(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/1622/populationhistorypq6.gif) (http://imageshack.us)

(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/6256/populationhistorybz3.gif) (http://imageshack.us)

-According to the U.S. Census Bureau as of April 2007 the world population is 6,590,527,998.  We have passed the 6 1/2 billion mark.
-2,000 years ago the estimated human population was 150 million
-By 1850, the human population was one billion. By 1930, it was 2 billion.
-It took 10,000 generations to reach 2 billion.
-The human population is now growing at a rate of about 3 people/second or 260 thousand/day or 1.8 million per week or 93 million/year

I would have to think with so many people in this world that there would be a equal rise in sin to parallel the growing population.  And as this population gets more dense, there would be more sin all around, as people interact. 
I also would say that as much advances in technology for the good of the world, there has also been an equal advances not for good.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat


Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: YellowStone on May 16, 2007, 06:52:26 PM
Hi Kat :)

I think you might have missed my point on quantitatively and qualitatively More of, does not mean more so

I will post again, some of what I wrote. :)

Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:  

God created evil, in the same manner as man creates a 12volt battery. If man then makes a 1,000 such batteries, there still be only ever 12 volts, but the amperage will increase (exluding cross wiring)

I believe that God made evil and evil hasn't become more evil in power, but rather in frequency.

God see's evil (in my mind) qualitatively; Evil = X

Man see's evil quantitatively, Evil = X times 1,000,000

God does not change. When he creates something, it stays created.

Rom 9:19  Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

God is the master potter and we are the clay, we cannot yet only see through spiritual eyes.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.  

Are we not sinners :( still?


Love to you Kat,

Your brother in Christ,
Darren
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Kat on May 16, 2007, 07:59:21 PM

Hi Darren,

I think I understand the point you are making;

Quote
Is not evil, evil in the eys of God just like a sin is a sin, for no man is perfect.


But there is some difference in how much one sin, as Luke 12:48 says some will recieve more stripes, some few stripes.

Quote
No man can be blinder than blind. No man can see the truth until it is given him to see.

This world is becoming worse as a whole and in individuals.
There is this scripture that indicates that evil will go from bad to worse.

2Ti 3:12  Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
v. 13  while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

And this scripture that Jesus says that the evil in someone can become worse.

Luk 11:24  "When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and finding none it says, 'I will return to my house from which I came.'
v. 25  And when it comes, it finds the house swept and put in order.
v. 26  Then it goes and brings seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and dwell there. And the last state of that person is worse than the first."

Just what I see on this  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat



Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: gmik on May 16, 2007, 08:18:41 PM
When I see these growth charts I sometimes chuckle to think about "re incarnation".  Where are all these NEW people coming from????
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: YellowStone on May 16, 2007, 08:41:52 PM
No problem at all Kat.

I believe we are both on the same page.

I think I can explain it with the following:

Luke 24:26  Then it goes and brings seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and dwell there. And the last state of that person is worse than the first."  

In other words, the final condition of the man will be worse than the start.

That the man is evil is unquestionable; however, my point is; how much more evil can a human become? Has not every atrocity known to man already been committed? Well let me answer this as best I can. Evil is evil as sin is sin, but how evil would the world be if we began watching TV shows where people were put to death for the fun of it? Shock, horror.....The Romans have already done this, and a great percentage of the populace were okay with it; or not willing to do anything about it.  :(

I do not believe that the evil is any more evil than it was; just more wide spread.

A final question for you. Will God judge an evil man whom never received the spirit of truth the same as a not so evil (quantitive) man who had repeatedly been exposed to the truth and repeatedly turned away?

Thanks so much,  :)

Your brother in Christ,
darren
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: YellowStone on May 16, 2007, 09:06:34 PM
When I see these growth charts I sometimes chuckle to think about "re incarnation".  Where are all these NEW people coming from????

I have seen some wonderful examples of reincarnation and in everyway, I cannot explain. Like the 7 year old boy who could name every piece of a WW2 fighter plane, knew where had crashed and died and the name of his "then" copilot. He knew all of this, but couldn't read the words he was saying. This kid knew things no one could know.

Reincarnation, I don't think so. I figure if God wanted me to know, he would have told me.

I just can't discount Satan.

2Cr 11:14   And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. :)

Thanks Gena,

Your brother in Christ,
Darren
 
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: seminole on May 16, 2007, 09:46:52 PM
Don't know if this will make sense or not to anyone about this subject. My Grandmother was crippled at an early age and was bed-ridden for many years. She was stricken with this crippling rheumatoid arthritis when she was 32 years old. By 1960 she was completely bedfast and remained there until some surgeries were developed that helped some. When she became bedridden there were no curse words(even little 4 letter words) commonly used on t.v. or even movies. There was not the high divorce rate and so on. She was completely shocked when she became able to be taken out with us around 1978. she couldn't believe the dis-respect that children showed their parents and other adults. Her senses were assaulted by all the changes that had taken place. I tried to imagine how it would seem through her eyes. I was accustomed to the same changes that she was shocked by. I didn't even notice when someone would use, as she said, "an ugly word". Could that be why things seem so much worse now? We have become calloused to things that in an earlier day would not be tolerated.
Seminole
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: YellowStone on May 16, 2007, 11:28:46 PM
Seminole,

I agree, I think belligerent acceptance is probably the most insidious evil of all.

Do we accept because we expect no better or because our eyes and hearts are focused on higher things?

I hope none of the above.  :D  Because, I do not accept a lot of things.

Very good reasoning, thanks for sharing.

Your brother in Christ,
Darren
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Kat on May 16, 2007, 11:52:05 PM
Hi seminole,

That was a good example about your Grandmother being shocked by the difference those years of isolation made.  It really does brings out the point that we become calloused.

Your question Darren,

Quote
Will God judge an evil man whom never received the spirit of truth the same as a not so evil (quantitive) man who had repeatedly been exposed to the truth and repeatedly turned away?

An evil man will be judged and purged of wickedness according to how he has lived his life.   It matters not how many times someone has heard the truth, until God opens their eyes and drags them to Christ, they can not understand.  We are not responsible for our own salvation, but accountable for our actions.

Gena, you mentioned the population explosion  :o
I have a very simplistic way of looking at this. The human race started out with two and the increase of people multiplying was slow at first.  Well when the population started getting up pretty high the amount that it increases starts making a much bigger difference.  When you have billions of people multiplying now, the increase is staggering and what's going to stop it?

I know you were joking about reincarnation, but since there was a mention of it, I found this email of Ray's.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3897.0.html ------

Dear Walter:

No, there is no such thing as human "reincarnation." Reincarnation is an ancient doctrine of the pagan Egyptians. God knew us from before the foundation of the world, not because we existed back then, but because we were IN HIS PLAN. God knew every person who would ever live, and when they would be born, and how long they would live, how they would live, etc., etc., etc.  And He didn't plan for any to perish, but that all will come to repentance and a knowledge of the truth (if not in this life, then in Judgment).

God be with you,

Ray
----------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: YellowStone on May 17, 2007, 01:25:54 AM
Hi Kat, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Perhaos I should have worded it better :)

Please let me explain in greater detail........

Your question Darren,

Quote
Will God judge an evil man whom never received the spirit of truth the same as a not so evil (quantitive) man who had repeatedly been exposed to the truth and repeatedly turned away?

An evil man will be judged and purged of wickedness according to how he has lived his life.  It matters not how many times someone has heard the truth, until God opens their eyes and drags them to Christ, they can not understand.  We are not responsible for our own salvation, but accountable for our actions.

I believe that it is erroneous to assume that once God has opened our eyes and filled our hearts with truth that the truth will remain inside us forever. Paul speaks very strongly on what happens when the enlightened "fall-away" from the truth. Repentance is not an option.

Hebrew 6:4-6 [NIV]
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because [fn2] to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

If any who has been brought to the truth should fall-away, may God have mercy on their soul, because they cannot be brought back, for doing so would nullify Christs Ransom and disgrace him. :(

Kat, I truly believe that their is a marked difference in God's eyes, between the unrighteous evildoer and that of one of God's enlightened who turned away. The unrighteous can repent, not so with the fallen child of God.

Do you now see why I asked that question? Who can really know the mind of God? But know this, we must always treat the Spirit of Truth that has been graciously given us, as our most valued possesion, bar none!

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God– 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.  

This is the truth as given to me,

Does this make sense Kat?

Love in Christ,
Darren
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: mari_et_pere on May 17, 2007, 11:47:35 AM
Quote
I am not a friend of this world system, so by default I am it's enemy. I'll welcome any and every person into the fold, that God brings into it. But until that happens I see no point in trying to be friends with them. Be nice, kind, etc. OK, but they wont get too close, because I'd rather be alone than unequally yoked.
Kent! You sound just like me dude! I have felt that way for so long that I honestly can't remember NOT feeling that way! I can't be friends with this world system. I can accept it because God's will prevails, therefore the world system is what it is because of God. However I don't have to like it! I don't have to watch the news and say, "Oh well, all is good," when I know full well it's not. I don't have to meet people who are spiritually, disgustingly degraded and think we'll have something in common.
At the same time, and this is the 3rd time I've used this verse today, but:
Mat 5:44  But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
I try.

Matt
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Kent on May 17, 2007, 01:40:17 PM
I know, thats why I say to be nice / kind, etc. It's not an act, I dont hate them. But I know exactly what you are saying :)

I think that where churchianity goes wrong is that they are NOT nice and kind to anyone that is still in their sins. Go up to someone with hate, and they will send that hate right back to them. Plus, they are rather selective about what sins they speak out against.
Instead of waiting on God to drag them to His Son, they want to do the dragging for themselves. If they would just be 'always be ready to explain the hope that is within them' (paraphrasing Paul here)...

I've gained a fuller appreciation of "There but for the grace of God, go I".

God Bless!
K
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on May 17, 2007, 04:03:54 PM
Darren

To answer your first question that you present in a Scripure as follows : Rom 9:19  Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

This has been covered through Ray’s teachings. In short. Everyone resists Gods WILL. NO ONE can resist, alter or manipulate God’s PLAN or His PURPOSE.  

You present the following : Is the world MORE evil today than yesterday? Is not evil, evil in the eys of God just like a sin is a sin, for no man is perfect. God does not change in intensity, I do not think evil changes in his eyes either. Only in the eys of the world and those so equipped to see. That included the spiritually enlightened. 

Does that make sense?


No actually it doesn’t make sense to me at all. I do not know what you mean by asking is not evil, evil in the eyes of God….What does that mean?  God says Genesis 6 : 5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. “

That Scripture is BEFORE God flooded the world and wiped out the entire human race save for 8 on Noahs Arc. Jesus said that when He returns the same conditions will prevail in the world. That means WICKEDNESS will be GREAT in the earth.

You venture to assume what I think and believe : I do not believe, nor do I believe that you do either  that the world is "falling" of it's own accord, for:

Rom 9:20  Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?


I do not hold God ACCOUNTABLE for mans weak spiritual state and propensity to like to be wicked and enjoy being in control and self sufficient. God is RESPONSIBLE and mankind will be held ACCOUNTABLE for refusing to acknowledge, know, revere and desire God. Man will be held accountable for trusting THEMSELVES and for confidence that they are in right standing with God while scorning and making nothing of others.  Jesus knows about such people : Luke 18 : 9 He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves and were confident that they were righteous, that they were upright and in right standing with God, and scorned and made nothing of all the rest of men.


You add the following scripture:  

God is the master potter and we are the clay.   I think you would agree.

No I do not agree that this scripture in any way endorses the view that the world is “falling of its own accord.” On the one hand you quote a scripture that can be taken to mean that the world is NOT falling of its own accord and then on the other hand you quote a scripture that can be taken to mean that the worlds falling is because God is the potter. On both counts there is no truth I can see in this approach anywhere. It is an alien view point as far as I can decipher it. So no. This does not make sense at all. Not to me anyway! ;D

Your comment regarding my reply to you on your question about SA where you assumed that I do not want to share, I think was a bit out of line. You might have considered that there were OTHER reasons for my decision NOT to discuss SA that could have been wise, or prudent or discrete and your choice of assumption that I did not want to share was unnecessary.  
peace to you

Arcturus  :)
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: berniekruger on May 17, 2007, 04:22:58 PM
Guys ???

I've been trying to follow this thread but it has become a "hyper thread" with multiple subject matters.

It makes no sense reading from page 1 to page 3, this was a question on bible codes.

Can a moderator repost to these headings
Bible Codes
Evil in the world or "last days" and so on

These good stuff here so don't just lock it.

I need help understanding something from Luke11:24-26 so I starting a new thread instead

Luv to all
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: YellowStone on May 17, 2007, 06:35:50 PM
Hey Matt,

You are going great today!!  :)

You wrote:

I have felt that way for so long that I honestly can't remember NOT feeling that way! I can't be friends with this world system. I can accept it because God's will prevails, therefore the world system is what it is because of God. However I don't have to like it! I don't have to watch the news and say, "Oh well, all is good," when I know full well it's not. I don't have to meet people who are spiritually, disgustingly degraded and think we'll have something in common.

This is something that I have yet to learn how we are to feel emotionally towards the world. The word "feel" does not get used much in the Scriptures.

Of course as you have posted already (several times today) :)

Mat 5:44  But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

Love them, but not what they do. But how does one turn off their emotions without becomming indifferent?  ??? ??? ???

The good Samaritan was not indifferent, while the priests walked on by, indifferently. :(

I think Christ parable on this subject is worth more study :)

Luk 10:30  And Jesus answering said, A certain [man] went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded [him], and departed, leaving [him] half dead.  

Luk 10:31  And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.  

Luk 10:32  And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked [on him], and passed by on the other side.  

Luk 10:33  But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion [on him],  

Luk 10:34  And went to [him], and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.  

Luk 10:35  And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave [them] to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.  

Luk 10:36  Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?  

There is always a deeper meaning than the obvious (duh) :)

But let's first look at the key points. The Samaritan was neither a "religious leader" or a "lay person" (Levite) but was a foreigner, halfbreeds of whom the jews looked upon with disdain.

Who is the Spiritual Samaritan? Is it not us, the ones who are hated most by the church? With this thought in mind, we dare not become indifferent to the world, for who are we if we do? Would we not be the same as pious priests, indifferent and self-rightous? I think so.

So inlight of all this, I think we should pay pretty close attention to the world around us, and never be afraid to step in and lend a hand to whoever needs it. Indifference does not appear to be an option.

What do you think? :)

Many thanks in Christ,
Darren




Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: YellowStone on May 17, 2007, 06:51:14 PM
Hi Arcturus,   :)

You wrote this:

You add the following scripture:

God is the master potter and we are the clay.   I think you would agree.

No I do not agree that this scripture in any way endorses the view that the world is “falling of its own accord.”


Before I respond to your response, PLEASE I beg of you in all fairness. Show me where I said that the world is falling of it's own accord

I Clearly wrote:

I do not believe, nor do I believe that you do either  that the world is "falling" of it's own accord, for:

Rom 9:20  Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?

God is the master potter and we are the clay.  :) I think you would agree. :)"


I am some what saddened that you did not see this  :(

My sister, I am deeply sorry for even mentioning SA. I was genuinely interested, that was all.

Please show where I said man is responsdible for his own falling. Anyone  ??? ???

With Love in Christ,

Your brother,
Darren
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on May 17, 2007, 07:07:01 PM



We obviously do not see eye to eye Darren :D ;D
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Redbird on May 17, 2007, 07:57:51 PM
Arcturus and Darren,

Are you sure you're not brother and sister??? :) ;) ;D

Love to you, Lisa
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: skydreamers on May 17, 2007, 08:38:33 PM
Quote
Arcturus and Darren,

Are you sure you're not brother and sister??? Smiley Wink Grin

Love to you, Lisa

(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t81/skydreamers/hilarious.gif)(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t81/skydreamers/rofl2.gif)
Title: Re: The Bible Codes
Post by: Redbird on May 17, 2007, 10:47:02 PM
That's cute Diana ~

I have to say, with joy in my heart, this is starting to feel like an honest down-to-earth family!

Love you ladies and gentlemen~
In Christ, Lisa