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Title: Water bearer?
Post by: orion77 on June 29, 2006, 11:16:13 PM
Here is a few verses that seem to speak of something hidden, wonder if any of you can help?



(Mar 14:12)  And on the first day of the Unleavened Bread, when they killed the Passover, His disciples said to Him, Where do You desire that going we may prepare that You may eat the Passover?

(Mar 14:13)  And He sent two of His disciples, and said to them, Go into the city. And you will meet a man carrying a pitcher of water. Follow him.

(Mar 14:14)  And wherever he goes in, say to the housemaster, The Teacher says, Where is the guest room where I may eat the Passover with My disciples?

(Mar 14:15)  And he will show you a large upper room, having been spread and made ready. Prepare for us there.

(Mar 14:16)  And His disciples went out and came into the city and found it as He told them. And they prepared the Passover.


Kind of strange how they made ready for the Passover, wonder if there is anything symbolic with the man carrying a pitcher of water?  Must be something here.   ???


God bless,

Gary
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: prarrydog on June 30, 2006, 12:21:54 AM
Wow, those verses weren't there yesterday.  Definitely something symbolic there.  Not sure what yet.  Will keep searching.
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: lilitalienboi16 on June 30, 2006, 12:25:17 AM
lol i'm blind and deaf to this, haha.

Sorry i'm not help but God grant you insight to see what is hidden here because it definatly has not been granted to me, atleast not now that is.

God bless,

Alex
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: rocky on June 30, 2006, 01:35:51 AM
Quote from: orion77 on June 29, 2006, 11:16:13 PM
Here is a few verses that seem to speak of something hidden, wonder if any of you can help?



(Mar 14:12)  And on the first day of the Unleavened Bread, when they killed the Passover, His disciples said to Him, Where do You desire that going we may prepare that You may eat the Passover?

(Mar 14:13)  And He sent two of His disciples, and said to them, Go into the city. And you will meet a man carrying a pitcher of water. Follow him.

(Mar 14:14)  And wherever he goes in, say to the housemaster, The Teacher says, Where is the guest room where I may eat the Passover with My disciples?

(Mar 14:15)  And he will show you a large upper room, having been spread and made ready. Prepare for us there.

(Mar 14:16)  And His disciples went out and came into the city and found it as He told them. And they prepared the Passover.


Kind of strange how they made ready for the Passover, wonder if there is anything symbolic with the man carrying a pitcher of water?  Must be something here.   ???


God bless,

Gary


Hi Gary, this is pretty scattered and not real solid thinking, but thot I'd throw it out there, it might bring on further discussion.  Thinking this has something to do with moving from old to new covenant. 


(Mar 14:12)  And on the first day of the Unleavened Bread, when they killed the Passover, His disciples said to Him, Where do You desire that going we may prepare that You may eat the Passover?


Prepare is also used here


Mat 3:3  For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.


The law is our tutor, preparing the way for Christ. 


Then there is about eating the passover, makes me think of this:

(Mar 14:12)  And on the first day of the Unleavened Bread, when they killed the Passover, His disciples said to Him, Where do You desire that going we may prepare that You may eat the Passover?

Joh 6:53  Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.


(Mar 14:13)  And He sent two of His disciples, and said to them, Go into the city. And you will meet a man carrying a pitcher of water. Follow him.


Carry hear also means to bear or bearing.  makes me think of bearing one's cross.

Luk 14:27  And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.


Carrying the pitcher of water, makes me think of Jesus first miracle turning water into wine.  Representative of old versus new covenant.  Wonder if the water, represents the law, which prepares us (our tutor)  for eating the passover (eating of Him)??


I dont' know, just some thots. 








Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: mercie on June 30, 2006, 08:10:37 AM
Quote from: orion77 on June 29, 2006, 11:16:13 PM
Here is a few verses that seem to speak of something hidden, wonder if any of you can help?



(Mar 14:12)  And on the first day of the Unleavened Bread, when they killed the Passover, His disciples said to Him, Where do You desire that going we may prepare that You may eat the Passover?

(Mar 14:13)  And He sent two of His disciples, and said to them, Go into the city. And you will meet a man carrying a pitcher of water. Follow him.

(Mar 14:14)  And wherever he goes in, say to the housemaster, The Teacher says, Where is the guest room where I may eat the Passover with My disciples?

(Mar 14:15)  And he will show you a large upper room, having been spread and made ready. Prepare for us there.

(Mar 14:16)  And His disciples went out and came into the city and found it as He told them. And they prepared the Passover.


Kind of strange how they made ready for the Passover, wonder if there is anything symbolic with the man carrying a pitcher of water?  Must be something here.   ???


God bless,

Gary


Water pitcher? A container used to hold water normally carried at the shoulder.

To Drink from the water pitcher ?

Heres some connections.


(Mar 14:13)  And He sent two of His disciples, and said to them, Go into the city. And you will meet a man carrying a pitcher of water. Follow him.

Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water

Jhn 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.  
 Jhn 4:11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? 


 Jhn 4:12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? 

 Jhn 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 


 Jhn 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

 Noitce the pitcher was held at the Shoulder!


Gen 24:42 And I came this day unto the well, and said, O LORD God of my master Abraham, if now thou do prosper my way which I go: 


 Gen 24:43 Behold, I stand by the well of water; and it shall come to pass, that when the virgin cometh forth to draw [water], and I say to her, Give me, I pray thee, a little water of thy pitcher to drink; 

ALL DO DRINK FROM THE PITCHER?
 Gen 24:44 And she say to me, Both drink thou, and I will also draw for thy camels: [let] the same [be] the woman whom the LORD hath appointed out for my master's son. 


 Gen 24:45 And before I had done speaking in mine heart, behold, Rebekah came forth with her pitcher on her shoulder; and she went down unto the well, and drew [water]: and I said unto her, Let me drink, I pray thee. 
 
Gen 24:46 And she made haste, and let down her pitcher from her [shoulder], and said, Drink, and I will give thy camels drink also: so I drank, and she made the camels drink also.

HIS Government to be burderned on the
shoulder

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

More connections


They Brake their Pitchers? the LIVING water that enters the Earth, Trumpets (the Lords voice) lamps which carry oil?

Jdg 7:19 So Gideon, and the hundred men that [were] with him, came unto the outside of the camp in the beginning of the middle watch; and they had but newly set the watch: and they blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers that [were] in their hands. 

 Jdg 7:20 And the three companies blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers, and held the lamps in their left hands, and the trumpets in their right hands to blow [withal]: and they cried, The sword of the LORD, and of Gideon.



The man  Carried the pitcher of water   ?  the TWO Apostles [ bear witness]    were TOLD to FOLLOW?


Mat 4:19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.


Christ the   "PITCHER" who fills the earth with LIVING water.
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: Chris R on June 30, 2006, 08:39:26 AM
Hello,

One cannot Carry "living" water in a Pitcher. The only thing amazing about this story, is Christ Knew that this man was carring a pitcher of water, and he Knew WERE this man was going to go.

I see nothing in these verses that "symbolize" the living water.

Chris R
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: Daniel on June 30, 2006, 10:04:09 AM
Great post Gary, and great insight Rocky and Mercie, amen.

Chris, have you considered that understanding is the wellspring of life and the Son of God is come to give us this understanding? Thats within ourselves. Afterall it wells up in our inmost being unto "eternal (or whichever word one chooses to use) life", and thats to "Know God".

That would be as a treasure in an earthen vessel. It also can be seen as one who is poured out as a drink offering. These having this indescrible gift within them (if only the woman at the well knew of).

HE is the fountain of living water and the drink to our souls and we are given one Spirit to drink.

Both the "lamb" (they eat) and "the living water" (they drink) are in the midst (the throne) where He feeds and cares for them.

Does seem to have validation here, yes He knows those that are His and knows their comings and their goings.

Peace

Daniel
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: orion77 on June 30, 2006, 10:49:18 AM
Thanks everybody for the input.  At first, when reading those verses, it's true to the glory of God that He would know of these things before they took place.  Yet, also there could also be some hidden manna there in these words and actions.

Follow the one who gives out the Living Water,  8)  Definetly the kind of water we would want to partake of.  Very interesting connections, gives deeper meaning to His words in those verses.  Thanks.

God bless,

Gary
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: rocky on June 30, 2006, 11:19:27 AM
 Proverbs 25:2 says, It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the glory of kings to search out a thing.  :)
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: Daniel on June 30, 2006, 11:23:37 AM
Quote from: orion77 on June 30, 2006, 10:49:18 AM
Thanks everybody for the input.  At first, when reading those verses, it's true to the glory of God that He would know of these things before they took place.  Yet, also there could also be some hidden manna there in these words and actions.

Follow the one who gives out the Living Water,  8)  Definetly the kind of water we would want to partake of.  Very interesting connections, gives deeper meaning to His words in those verses.  Thanks.

God bless,

Gary

Amen Gary,

In following those who have the living water or understanding its to follow their "example" not them as Paul needed to rebuke them for, for all the wrong reasons.

Notice its not being a follower of men except to the point where their example and life exemplify that which speaks of their example, or behavior as they follow in the footsteps of Christ.

2Thes 3:7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

2Thes 3:8 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.

1Cr 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

1Cr 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Phil 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.


Interesting that the Lord puts it that way. You can find it speaking after their example in the right light. As Paul said, "watch your doctrine and your life" in that regard, in thhat those approved do become evident as God bears them witness, He sure does. Never mattered whether WE confess angels or not, but that HE confess YOU before THEM.

Peace

Daniel
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: Chris R on June 30, 2006, 09:45:43 PM
Quote from: Daniel on June 30, 2006, 10:04:09 AM
Great post Gary, and great insight Rocky and Mercie, amen.

Chris, have you considered that understanding is the wellspring of life and the Son of God is come to give us this understanding? Thats within ourselves. Afterall it wells up in our inmost being unto "eternal (or whichever word one chooses to use) life", and thats to "Know God".

That would be as a treasure in an earthen vessel. It also can be seen as one who is poured out as a drink offering. These having this indescrible gift within them (if only the woman at the well knew of).

HE is the fountain of living water and the drink to our souls and we are given one Spirit to drink.

Both the "lamb" (they eat) and "the living water" (they drink) are in the midst (the throne) where He feeds and cares for them.

Does seem to have validation here, yes He knows those that are His and knows their comings and their goings.

Peace

Daniel

Hi Daniel,

No i never thought of that verse that way, and ..to be honest the living waters in which you speak of have nothing to do with this man carrying water to a place were Christ forenew.

These are physical acts, not spiritual acts, this man  did not "spiritually" carry "spiritual" water, into a spiritual place, were then Christ had passover with his disciples. The scriptures are clear concerning just what the living waters are, there is no need to "hide" this message in a man carrying a pot of water.

But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. john 4:14.

Were do we get this water? [I SHALL GIVE HIM] What is this water? [THE SPIRIT OF GOD] is this water merely carried about in a pot? If so why is this water "in us" and not "on us".?

Yes it is true we must compare spiritual things with spiritual things, all scriptures are for our admonition and while i believe there is a lesson in this verse, it is certainly not a lesson about the "living waters of Christ"

This message is but one more lesson in the miraculous knowledge of the goings and comings of all men.
 It is the same message given to the women at the well,

The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband:   For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly Jhn 4:17-18

So tell me...were are these spiritual living waters in this miraculous knowledge that Christ had concerning this women at the well?

No doubt you will find 3 or 4 verses that have "five husbands" in them, and spin it into a spiritual lesson also.



Chris R







Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: Chris R on June 30, 2006, 09:55:36 PM
Quote from: Daniel on June 30, 2006, 11:23:37 AM
Quote from: orion77 on June 30, 2006, 10:49:18 AM
Thanks everybody for the input.  At first, when reading those verses, it's true to the glory of God that He would know of these things before they took place.  Yet, also there could also be some hidden manna there in these words and actions.

Follow the one who gives out the Living Water,  8)  Definetly the kind of water we would want to partake of.  Very interesting connections, gives deeper meaning to His words in those verses.  Thanks.

God bless,

Gary

Amen Gary,

In following those who have the living water or understanding its to follow their "example" not them as Paul needed to rebuke them for, for all the wrong reasons.

Notice its not being a follower of men except to the point where their example and life exemplify that which speaks of their example, or behavior as they follow in the footsteps of Christ.

2Thes 3:7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

2Thes 3:8 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.

1Cr 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

1Cr 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Phil 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.


Interesting that the Lord puts it that way. You can find it speaking after their example in the right light. As Paul said, "watch your doctrine and your life" in that regard, in thhat those approved do become evident as God bears them witness, He sure does. Never mattered whether WE confess angels or not, but that HE confess YOU before THEM.

Peace

Daniel


Daniel

God confesses US before ANGELS? perhaps i am misunderstanding you?

  Know ye not that WE shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?  1Cr 6:3

Who is the "WE" in this verse?

Chris R
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: prarrydog on June 30, 2006, 10:06:58 PM
Chris R


You said:  "These are physical acts, not spiritual acts, this man  did not "spiritually" carry "spiritual" water, into a spiritual place, were then Christ had passover with his disciples. The scriptures are clear concerning just what the living waters are, there is no need to "hide" this message in a man carrying a pot of water. "

Was it spiritual manna that fell from the sky?  No, it was physical manna with a spiritual message.  If you think that these physical stories are simply physical stories then we are all just reading a history book.  

Joh 6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

I am not saying that this is about living waters but I am saying that there is a spiritual message for us...here and now.


Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: Chris R on June 30, 2006, 10:14:53 PM
Yes prarydog,

I believe there is a spiritual lesson in all scripture, but non the less I dont beleive the mentioned scripture is about "living waters" that is if you beleive this man did not "literally" carry water in the pot at all?

Chris R
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: Daniel on June 30, 2006, 10:19:38 PM
Quote from: Chris R on June 30, 2006, 09:55:36 PM
Quote from: Daniel on June 30, 2006, 11:23:37 AM
Quote from: orion77 on June 30, 2006, 10:49:18 AM
Thanks everybody for the input.  At first, when reading those verses, it's true to the glory of God that He would know of these things before they took place.  Yet, also there could also be some hidden manna there in these words and actions.

Follow the one who gives out the Living Water,  8)  Definetly the kind of water we would want to partake of.  Very interesting connections, gives deeper meaning to His words in those verses.  Thanks.

God bless,

Gary

Amen Gary,

In following those who have the living water or understanding its to follow their "example" not them as Paul needed to rebuke them for, for all the wrong reasons.

Notice its not being a follower of men except to the point where their example and life exemplify that which speaks of their example, or behavior as they follow in the footsteps of Christ.

2Thes 3:7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

2Thes 3:8 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.

1Cr 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

1Cr 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Phil 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.


Interesting that the Lord puts it that way. You can find it speaking after their example in the right light. As Paul said, "watch your doctrine and your life" in that regard, in thhat those approved do become evident as God bears them witness, He sure does. Never mattered whether WE confess angels or not, but that HE confess YOU before THEM.

Peace

Daniel


Daniel

God confesses US before ANGELS? perhaps i am misunderstanding you?

  Know ye not that WE shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?  1Cr 6:3

Who is the "WE" in this verse?

Chris R


Chris,

I was speaking on concerning worthless confessions while missing the picture


Acts 23:8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.

Luke 12:8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

Gotta go in a whole other direction on the other verse you just shared, and because we might have a difference in our seeing these things I would rather withold sharing on that Chris.

As for the above post, please take as you see it, if a pitcher be a pitcher, let a pitcher be a pitcher. No big deal.

Peace

Daniel
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: Chris R on June 30, 2006, 10:36:20 PM
Hi Daniel,

And I say to you, Every one -- whoever may confess with me before men, the Son of Man also shall confess with him before the messengers of God,

To confess "WITH HIM... before the messengers of God.

The word Confess: [homologeo] "to say the same thing as another" The same act of both..Christ and those who confess Christ among men.

Chris R.

Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: rocky on June 30, 2006, 10:45:37 PM
Quote from: Chris R on June 30, 2006, 09:45:43 PM
No doubt you will find 3 or 4 verses that have "five husbands" in them, and spin it into a spiritual lesson also.



Chris R










Sounds like the O'Reilly Factor, "no spin zone".   :)
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: Daniel on June 30, 2006, 11:22:33 PM
Quote from: Chris R on June 30, 2006, 10:36:20 PM
Hi Daniel,

And I say to you, Every one -- whoever may confess with me before men, the Son of Man also shall confess with him before the messengers of God,

To confess "WITH HIM... before the messengers of God.

The word Confess: [homologeo] "to say the same thing as another" The same act of both..Christ and those who confess Christ among men.

Chris R.



Obviously to CONFESS WITH HIM Chris.

What point do you think I missed other then a word "with" that is obvious? The same word also means not to deny

Titus 1:16 They PROFESS that they know God; but IN WORKS DENY HIM being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.


One can DENY HIM by their WORKS, so SAYING "LORD, when did we SEE YOU"? (Not DOING) Came down to the what YOU DID unto the "least of these my brethren, you did (or did not do) unto me".

When I was a STRANGER,

entertain strangers for doing so some have entertained ANGELS unawares (WHEN did we SEE YOU?)... And you received me (Paul said) as an ANGEL as Christ Himself.

Then again, the rest is just as I see it

Peace

Daniel

Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: Chris R on July 01, 2006, 12:03:16 AM
Daniel,

Perhaps this may be obvious to you, but to some reading these posts, perhaps not.

I'm at a lost as to exactly your meaning of these scriptures, but thought at least, a small explanation was in order.

The thread was concerning a pot of water carried by a unknown man, and were he entered in.
To which my reply was did this man literally carry a pot of water, and did he enter in a literal place?

To which you replied : Chris, have you considered that understanding is the wellspring of life and the Son of God is come to give us this understanding? Thats within ourselves. Afterall it wells up in our inmost being unto "eternal (or whichever word one chooses to use) life", and thats to "Know God".

What is "within ourselves"

And,  who can "know God" [Rom 11:33] O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Chris R





Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: orion77 on July 01, 2006, 12:36:12 AM
We are to compare spiritual with spiritual, when we take some scripture and compare it to the physical alone, we can miss some deeper meaning.  This is the whole purpose of this thread.

When we take the words that Jesus spoke in Mark 14: 12-16 and only see the physical attributes of these verses, which I admit are great, we miss the spiritual comparison.  It is a very grand and great thing to acknowledge our Lord in seeing these things in advance, and they come true physically.  Wow, we say, that is beautiful, tis our Lord.  Yet, we know that our Lord is the Alpha and Omega, knowing the beginning from the end, so we no longer see Him after the flesh and carnal or physical miracles.  The truth is much deeper than what we see or hear with our eyes and ears, it goes into the spiritual reality, which far exceeds the physical.

There is no need to bring up scripture after scripture to give one a clear understanding of these things.  Although it can be done, but the Spirit testifies to our spirit.  

When we get past what we physically see and hear, and truly not see any man in the flesh, we can not be deceived into listening to our own fleshly mind, desires and wisdom, then the Spirit comes reality, which the spiritual reality is where we will live anyway in the future.  This is what separates us from the majority.

He said, we shall do greater works than He did.  To the carnal mind, how is this possible?  But, to the Spiritually minded, His words are true.  There is alot more to the miracles Jesus did than just to see the physical aspects.  All the prophets and what they said and did are for our ensample.  Christ life itself is for our ensample, even more so.  Healing the sick, changing water into wine, forgiving sins, raising the dead, etc., are grand and great things, yet they speak of even greater Spiritual things than what is on top.  Surely we can see this.

God creating man in His image, sending His own Son to suffer in our stead, showing us the Way, the right way to treat our fellow brethren and sisters, is far more miraculous than any physical miracle He ever did.  Now, us seeing and knowing of these things, to turn around and love our neighbors as He loves us is even more miraculous.  This is what it is all about, we either see it or not.  Still, no matter what we believe, His will be done.

God bless,

Gary
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: Chris R on July 01, 2006, 12:53:23 AM
Quote from: orion77 on July 01, 2006, 12:36:12 AM
We are to compare spiritual with spiritual, when we take some scripture and compare it to the physical alone, we can miss some deeper meaning.  This is the whole purpose of this thread.

When we take the words that Jesus spoke in Mark 14: 12-16 and only see the physical attributes of these verses, which I admit are great, we miss the spiritual comparison.  
Gary

Hello Gary,

Thankyou for your heartfelt post, i am sincere when i say that while i believe the whole of scripture has a spirtual message, I have in this instance missed the "spiritual lesson" in Mark 14: 12-16

I'll be quiet for awhile and allow you to explain it to me.

Thanks

Chris R

Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: orion77 on July 01, 2006, 01:19:38 AM
Hello Chris R,

This is why, I asked this question in this thread.  I am not totally sure of the spiritual aspects of these verses.  I am only hoping to learn from others.  Yet, we are told to not see Him after the flesh anymore, so it's no big deal that He can tell two of His disciples to go to the city and find a man carrying a pitcher of water and to follow him, and so on and on as the verses state.

Even though to many, these are great things that should not be questioned.  They glorify God.  Yes, they do, but by the specific things that Jesus told His disciples that they would find, these words take on a greater spiritual meaning than what physically happened as He said they would. 

This to me, is easy to see, but I am not sure what they imply, hence the question.  There are many things I have overlooked in the past, and I am sure there are many things overlooked even now.  I simply do not want to put myself in a state of mind where that is it, especially when it comes to the truth in our Christ.  We see in part, grow from faith to faith, and I wish not to hinder the Spirit with my own mind.  These are the ideas we came out of, so we can grow and learn.

I can not fully explain these verses to you, except to say there must be more than meets the eye.  That is all.

God bless,

Gary
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: mercie on July 01, 2006, 04:37:25 AM
Gary.

This thread has moved on since i read it last.
as I see things Rocky  touched on the purpose of the Water pitcher , as Christ Turned water to wine at the Wedding, I can see a connection of through his Blood we become righteous Born anew in him

As Chris R mentioned, was This Man a Holder of LIVING water , the answer would be No.


We understand that Shadows are not the reality .


I just threw in those additional Connections as I can see Christ as the TRUE water Piticher who LETS DOWN living water to those who thirst.


Let down can be seen as the Living word being given.

ieGenesis 11:7 - 
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Trying to keep posts short and give food for thought in such few words can be confusing.

At times cant win for trying  ???

Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: Chris R on July 01, 2006, 09:01:16 AM
Quote from: mercie on July 01, 2006, 04:37:25 AM
Gary.

This thread has moved on since i read it last.
as I see things Rocky  touched on the purpose of the Water pitcher , as Christ Turned water to wine at the Wedding, I can see a connection of through his Blood we become righteous Born anew in him

As Chris R mentioned, was This Man a Holder of LIVING water , the answer would be No.


We understand that Shadows are not the reality .


I just threw in those additional Connections as I can see Christ as the TRUE water Piticher who LETS DOWN living water to those who thirst.


Let down can be seen as the Living word being given.

ieGenesis 11:7 - 
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Trying to keep posts short and give food for thought in such few words can be confusing.

At times cant win for trying  ???



Hi Mercie,

It is true that Christ gives us living waters, i just fail to see this in the verses mentioned. If the entire chapter is read, there are mountains of "spiritual" truths within. The miracles of Christ and his knowledge of the commings and goings of all men, are in itself the spiritual message in these few verses.

Chris R
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: Mickyd on July 01, 2006, 07:43:22 PM
Hmm...this is one of the better threads to come around lately. Much to think about...
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: mercie on July 02, 2006, 02:02:53 PM
Quote from: Chris R on July 01, 2006, 09:01:16 AM
Quote from: mercie on July 01, 2006, 04:37:25 AM
Gary.

This thread has moved on since i read it last.
as I see things Rocky  touched on the purpose of the Water pitcher , as Christ Turned water to wine at the Wedding, I can see a connection of through his Blood we become righteous Born anew in him

As Chris R mentioned, was This Man a Holder of LIVING water , the answer would be No.


We understand that Shadows are not the reality .


I just threw in those additional Connections as I can see Christ as the TRUE water Piticher who LETS DOWN living water to those who thirst.


Let down can be seen as the Living word being given.

ieGenesis 11:7 - 
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Trying to keep posts short and give food for thought in such few words can be confusing.

At times cant win for trying  ???



Hi Mercie,

It is true that Christ gives us living waters, i just fail to see this in the verses mentioned. If the entire chapter is read, there are mountains of "spiritual" truths within. The miracles of Christ and his knowledge of the commings and goings of all men, are in itself the spiritual message in these few verses.

Chris R
Hi Chris R.
 yes, One is Not disputing that the water bearer in This chapter is " livingWater " .
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: YellowStone on July 03, 2006, 12:36:50 AM
I'm joining this thread a little late, but maybe I can offer a different line of thought.

Mar 14:13

Unless I am grossly mistaken, was not water carrying (in the physical sense) a woman's job and not that of a man? If this is true, then would not have the two disciples have easily identified the "man"? So, then would it not also fit that Jesus had made prior arrangements with the owner of the house?

I do see a spiritual parallel here. That Jesus considered he himself as a water carrier goes without question.

Jhn 4:10
So too, has not Jesus not beseeched God the Father and prepared in advance the way for us?

The question is, who is the water carrier in the spiritual sense. Not a literal water carrier, but someone or something that stands out from the crowd.

I have my own thoughts on this, but I know we all came to this Bible-Truths site and forum for a reason.  :)

Much love to you all.

YellowStone
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: Chris R on July 03, 2006, 09:10:06 AM
Hi Yellowstone,

Is there living waters in the pitcher? obviously not... does this verse have a spiritual lesson concerning the living water, How so?

There are many verses that speak of the living waters that Christ gives, none of these verses hide the the living water in a pitcher, why is this?

If all that is ever written in the scriptures concerning water is meaning living waters, what a confusing contradictory book it would be. as we would then have to apply living waters to over 600 scriptures?

This is why Christ told the women ,But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst;

Did Christ himself need living water?...."After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst." [ john 19:28] what spiritual lesson is to be observed in Christs words, concerning  "I thirst" is it "living waters" the he needed,  is it not Christ himself that Gives us living waters?

Is it so impossible for us to beleive the Son of God could know exactly when and were this man carrying a pot of water would be, at the exact time his disciples came into the city? Does Christ need a prior arrangement?

if so, i dont see it written, and therfore cannot speculate.

Christ plainly told his followers that "I Am The Way" [Jhn 14:6] He didnt hide this message in a man carrying a pitcher of water, why would he?

I'm confused as to why so many wish to make a pitcher of water, a Spiritual lesson of the "living waters".
When these spiritual waters are stated in other scriptures NOT as drinking water at all!

But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst... this is the spiritual lesson concerning "living waters".

Peace

Chris R





Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: YellowStone on July 03, 2006, 09:34:57 AM
Good morning Chris, I gave this a lot of thought since my first post and I agree that there is no reference, real or implied to living waters. So I will repost my message with the reference removed.

Repost - For Clarity
======================================================

Mar 14:13 - And He sent two of His disciples, and said to them, Go into the city. And you will meet a man carrying a pitcher of water. Follow him.

Unless I am grossly mistaken, was not water carrying (in the physical sense) a woman's job and not that of a man? If this is true, then would not have the two disciples have easily identified the "man"? So, then would it not also fit that Jesus had made prior arrangements with the owner of the house?

So too, has not Jesus not beseeched God the Father and prepared in advance the way (place) for us?

The question is, who is the water carrier in the spiritual sense. Not a literal water carrier, but someone or something that stands out from the crowd.

I have my own thoughts on this, but I know we all came to this Bible-Truths site and forum for a reason. 
======================================================

Chris, does this make my point a little clearer. It was not my intent to inflame or upset and for this I apologize.

God is love,

Yellowstone
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: mercie on July 03, 2006, 09:38:09 AM
Chris

Jhn 7:37 In the last day, that great [day] of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

No Biggy.

we KNOW Christ is The living Water.

As im sure you know Similtudes run through out scripture .

As the layers reveal themselves we learn more of the spiritual lessons within

Take Lazurus and the Rich man, how many consider this A  parable.?


Ihave no problem whatso ever in seeing Christ as a Spiriitual TYPE of Pitcher who lets down His living water for those who wish to drink.

Sgs 4:15 A fountain of gardens, a well of living waters, and streams from Lebanon


Jer 17:13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, [and] they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.

Christ spirit which Is the wellspring of Understanding.

Pro 16:22 Understanding [is] a wellspring of life unto him that hath it: but the instruction of fools [is] folly.

Pro 18:4 The words of a man's mouth [are as] deep waters, [and] the wellspring of wisdom [as] a flowing brook.


1) spring, fountain

a) spring

1) of source of life, joy, purification (fig.)

b) of the eye (fig.)

c) source (of menstruous blood)

d) flow (of blood after child birth



As Daniel  breifly mentioned , welling up within unto eternal Life.



Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: hillsbororiver on July 03, 2006, 10:06:27 AM
Quote from: mercie on July 03, 2006, 09:38:09 AM


Take Lazurus and the Rich man, how many consider this A  parable.?


 

mercie, are you saying it isn't?

Joe
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: mercie on July 03, 2006, 10:10:34 AM
Quote from: hillsbororiver on July 03, 2006, 10:06:27 AM
Quote from: mercie on July 03, 2006, 09:38:09 AM


Take Lazurus and the Rich man, how many consider this A  parable.?


 

mercie, are you saying it isn't?

Joe

Not at all Joe ;)The tongue that needs water to cool down.?

The Rich man sure came to understand this

Pro 18:21 Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.


Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: rocky on July 03, 2006, 10:24:45 AM
Quote from: Chris R on July 03, 2006, 09:10:06 AM
Hi Yellowstone,


There are many verses that speak of the living waters that Christ gives, none of these verses hide the the living water in a pitcher, why is this?


Christ plainly told his followers that "I Am The Way" [Jhn 14:6] He didnt hide this message in a man carrying a pitcher of water, why would he?


Peace

Chris R

Hi Chris, something to consider; Christ's living water is conceiled, and opened up only to those he chooses.  Everything in it's own order.  Even talks about this in the John 4 verses re: living water.

Joh 4:10  Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.








Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: hillsbororiver on July 03, 2006, 10:33:55 AM
Ray's article on Lazarus & the Rich man was a real eye opener for me, especially when it was explained who the "Rich man" represents;

(From Lazarus & the Rich man)

THE RICH MAN IDENTIFIED

There is only one man who Scripturally fits all the descriptions of the "rich man" in this parable. Only one person who "personifies" all of the symbols and identifying clues given of this rich man. And that man is:

"JUDAH !"

But not just Judah as an historical individual, but collectively. All Israel under the headship of Judah, the Jews. And the Jews were "rich."

It is an incredible paper;

http://bible-truths.com/lazarus.html
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: rocky on July 03, 2006, 10:40:29 AM
(Mar 14:13)  And He sent two of His disciples, and said to them, Go into the city. And you will meet a man carrying a pitcher of water. Follow him.


Why two disciples, why not three, four, or only one??

Why the words "follow him".  Have we seen those words before?  "follow me and i'll make you fishers of men"


Why into the city???  Where have we seen city used before???  Rev. 21 onward, "Holy City", Jerusalem from above????

Rev 22:14  Blessed are they that do his commandments (follow him), that they may have right to the tree of life (living water??), and may enter in through the gates into the city.


Makes me think of God's chosen (two out of 12 desciples, two witnesses, to follow Him), following Him with water????  


The water was in jars.  jars made of clay???  Christ at that time still in the flesh??  Water soon to be spilled out in the resurrection???


Just some thots.  

Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: mercie on July 03, 2006, 10:46:52 AM
Quote from: hillsbororiver on July 03, 2006, 10:33:55 AM
Ray's article on Lazarus & the Rich man was a real eye opener for me, especially when it was explained who the "Rich man" represents;

(From Lazarus & the Rich man)

THE RICH MAN IDENTIFIED

There is only one man who Scripturally fits all the descriptions of the "rich man" in this parable. Only one person who "personifies" all of the symbols and identifying clues given of this rich man. And that man is:

"JUDAH !"

But not just Judah as an historical individual, but collectively. All Israel under the headship of Judah, the Jews. And the Jews were "rich."

It is an incredible paper;

http://bible-truths.com/lazarus.html

It is a Good Joe.

Those who sit in Moses Seat.
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: mercie on July 03, 2006, 01:23:12 PM
Quote from: rocky on July 03, 2006, 10:40:29 AM
(Mar 14:13)  And He sent two of His disciples, and said to them, Go into the city. And you will meet a man carrying a pitcher of water. Follow him.


Why two disciples, why not three, four, or only one??

Why the words "follow him".  Have we seen those words before?  "follow me and i'll make you fishers of men"


Why into the city???  Where have we seen city used before???  Rev. 21 onward, "Holy City", Jerusalem from above????

Rev 22:14  Blessed are they that do his commandments (follow him), that they may have right to the tree of life (living water??), and may enter in through the gates into the city.


Makes me think of God's chosen (two out of 12 desciples, two witnesses, to follow Him), following Him with water????  


The water was in jars.  jars made of clay???  Christ at that time still in the flesh??  Water soon to be spilled out in the resurrection???


Just some thots.  



Rocky

A  few Scriptures to consider.

John 4:10 If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
 
The Lord knoweth them that are his.
 
Mark 14:13 Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him.
 
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
 
Ephes 3:2If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
 
2Cr 9:15 Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
 
Prov 17:8 A gift is as a precious stone in the eyes of him that hath it: whithersoever it turneth, it prospereth.
 
2Cr 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
 
Ephes 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 
 
Prov 25:25 As cold waters to a thirsty soul, so is good news from a far country.
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: YellowStone on July 03, 2006, 01:57:48 PM
Hi Yellowstone,  Hi Chris  :)
Is there living waters in the pitcher? obviously not... does this verse have a spiritual lesson concerning the living water, How so?

You are of course correct. I thought of this (posting something earlier to this effect) and realized that my reference of "living waters" did or does not pertain to Mark 14:13. I do not see this as a parable teaching. Am I wrong?  

There are many verses that speak of the living waters that Christ gives, none of these verses hide the the living water in a pitcher, why is this?

Possibly because they apply and this case they do not :)

If all that is ever written in the scriptures concerning water is meaning living waters, what a confusing contradictory book it would be. as we would then have to apply living waters to over 600 scriptures?

This is why Christ told the women ,But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst;

Did Christ himself need living water?...."After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst." [ john 19:28] what spiritual lesson is to be observed in Christs words, concerning  "I thirst" is it "living waters" the he needed,  is it not Christ himself that Gives us living waters?

Your question is of course referring to Christ needing "spiritual" waters, which of course he did not. He was however, hanging on a cross and having lost a lot of blood. He was thirsty for "physical" life giving water. No question about it. :)

Is it so impossible for us to beleive the Son of God could know exactly when and were this man carrying a pot of water would be, at the exact time his disciples came into the city? Does Christ need a prior arrangement?

Chris, I was following you fine until this part. Of course it is not impossible, who would be foolish enough to ever think such a thing. BUT, Jesus Christ on this earth was a man. Are you suggesting that he could not have made arrangements as a man?  

if so, i dont see it written, and therfore cannot speculate.

Very good point, does it matter? My point was Jesus may have made prior arrangements with the owner in "advance" in much the same way as he has spiritually to our God and Father, for his brothers and sisters.

Christ plainly told his followers that "I Am The Way" [Jhn 14:6] He didnt hide this message in a man carrying a pitcher of water, why would he?

Chris, I feel a lot of antagonism. :(

Please believe me it was not my intent. I did not say that Christ hid his message in a pitcher of water. All I said was that there was something of a parallel between the physical and spiritual events.

I'm confused as to why so many wish to make a pitcher of water, a Spiritual lesson of the "living waters".
When these spiritual waters are stated in other scriptures NOT as drinking water at all!

Chris, these are your words and not mine :)

But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst... this is the spiritual lesson concerning "living waters".

Amen :)

Peace

In closing, I wish to state that my original post was not an attack on you or anyone else in this forum.

Once again, I apologize for anything I might have said, for clearly you seen something in my post that was not intended.

May God grant us all an abundance of love, peace and understanding.

Friends,

Yellowstone
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: mannonthecross on July 03, 2006, 02:17:35 PM
Quote from: mercie on July 03, 2006, 09:38:09 AM
Chris

Jhn 7:37 In the last day, that great [day] of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

we KNOW Christ is The living Water.

Ihave no problem whatso ever in seeing Christ as a Spiriitual TYPE of Pitcher who lets down His living water for those who wish to drink.

Amen!

Literally, if someone is thirsty, he is given a drink of water poured from a pitcher (or faucet, or fountain, etc). Spiritually, Christ is the drink offering being poured out of Himself, by Himself (Pitcher & Man carrying Pitcher of Water).

We know that Water is equated to the life-giving power of redemption & when we drink from Christ, we become His wells of salvation. Is 12:3 "With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation."

Follow him...the him is actually Him = Christ. Follow Him, including acts of love & kindness, just as someone [Beloved?] from another thread gave Owen a bicycle seat.

As He pours out, we fill up & we pour out to others (not redemption, but looking like Jesus, acting like Jesus & doing the things that Jesus did & greater things, which is actually the grace of God)!

Did I get off the track somehow here?

What is the Truth? (I can handle it  :D)
Marianne

Oops! It was JesusOnly, not Beloved who made a new friend of Owen. :-[

Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: Daniel on July 03, 2006, 02:55:46 PM
Amen Mannonthecross!!!

Often REFRESHING the SAINTS !!!!

Darn... the phone (laughing)

Great stuff!

Peace

Daniel
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: orion77 on July 03, 2006, 03:23:54 PM
This thread has really taken off.  Good posts here.

The article Ray wrote about Lazarus and the Rich man, is a perfect example how God has concealed or hidden things from those of the world.  I agree Joe, this was an eye opener for me, also.


(Psa 51:6)  Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts; and in the hidden parts You teach me wisdom.

(Isa 45:3)  And I will give you the treasures of darkness, even treasures in secret places, that you may know that I am Jehovah, who calls you by your name, the God of Israel.

(1Co 2:6)  But we speak wisdom among the perfect, but not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, those being brought to nothing.

(1Co 2:7)  But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, having been hidden, which God predetermined before the ages for our glory,

(Pro 25:2)  The glory of God is to conceal a thing, but the glory of kings is to search out a matter.


This is why, when Mark 14: 12-16, Jesus telling two disciples they would find a man carrying a pitcher of water, to follow him, and ask the goodman of the house, and a large upper room is ready.  Whether Jesus beforehand had it set up, or through a miracle, by Him knowing beforehand, what will take place, what is the reason for these things?  When we compare spiritual with spiritual, something must be here.  When we compare the physical with the spiritual, all we can see is Him knowing what will take place and give God the glory.  This is good, yet we know all things of God are not out there for all to see.  If that was so, they never would have crucified Christ.

I appreciate all the posts, have learned much here.  It is always good to find some buried treasure, keeps things interesting and growing.  Definetly takes alot of work to produce a good garden, and well worth it come harvest time.

God bless,

Gary
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: YellowStone on July 03, 2006, 04:20:54 PM
Gary,

I will try to align my thoughts a litte better :)

We all know that no one comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ. We also know that God has a handle on everthing.

      Mat 6:26
Is it beyond comprehension that as Jesus cares for his loved ones spiritually, so he would likewise care for them physically. This is the parallel I was trying to make.

Does this not strengthen Christ's love for his brothers and sisters.

      Mat 6:33
Gosh, Jesus cared enough for his beloved that he arranged for a place for them to stay. How much more will he do for us spiritually.

With love,

Yellowstone
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: rocky on July 03, 2006, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: YellowStone on July 03, 2006, 04:20:54 PM
Gary,

Gosh, Jesus cared enough for his beloved that he arranged for a place for them to stay. How much more will he do for us spiritually.

With love,

Yellowstone

thinking of preparing a place for them, reminded me of this verse

 
 Jhn 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: mercie on July 03, 2006, 04:36:05 PM
Quote from: mannonthecross on July 03, 2006, 02:17:35 PM
Quote from: mercie on July 03, 2006, 09:38:09 AM
Chris

Jhn 7:37 In the last day, that great [day] of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

we KNOW Christ is The living Water.

Ihave no problem whatso ever in seeing Christ as a Spiriitual TYPE of Pitcher who lets down His living water for those who wish to drink.

Amen!

Literally, if someone is thirsty, he is given a drink of water poured from a pitcher (or faucet, or fountain, etc). Spiritually, Christ is the drink offering being poured out of Himself, by Himself (Pitcher & Man carrying Pitcher of Water).

We know that Water is equated to the life-giving power of redemption & when we drink from Christ, we become His wells of salvation. Is 12:3 "With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation."

Follow him...the him is actually Him = Christ. Follow Him, including acts of love & kindness, just as someone [Beloved?] from another thread gave Owen a bicycle seat.

As He pours out, we fill up & we pour out to others (not redemption, but looking like Jesus, acting like Jesus & doing the things that Jesus did & greater things, which is actually the grace of God)!

Did I get off the track somehow here?

What is the Truth? (I can handle it  :D)
Marianne

Oops! It was JesusOnly, not Beloved who made a new friend of Owen. :-[



 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: Chris R on July 04, 2006, 08:34:31 AM
Hello,

Sorry i did not get back to all the replies in the thread, As with my work schedule i cannot possibly reply every single day.

I'm sure we have covered about all the aspects of this question, And i'm sure those have formed their opinons on what they believe... Time to move on

Peace

Chris R
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: mercie on July 04, 2006, 08:39:42 AM
Quote from: Chris R on July 04, 2006, 08:34:31 AM
Hello,

Sorry i did not get back to all the replies in the thread, As with my work schedule i cannot possibly reply every single day.

I'm sure we have covered about all the aspects of this question, And i'm sure those have formed their opinons on what they believe... Time to move on

Peace

Chris R

Thank you for the Update Chris.

We have all come to a conclusion on what we believe in this thread.

As you say time to move on.

Peace
Title: Re: Water bearer?
Post by: Chris R on July 05, 2006, 10:33:48 AM
Hello all,

Since i did not know exactly how to answer this question, I did e-mail Ray..
This is his responce

Thankyou

Chris R

Dear Chris And Craig,

I was never asked this one before.  The Pitcher of Water is not a
parable,
neither does it represent Christ, nor the Holy Spirit.

Jesus already knew where they would eat the Passover, however, His
disciples
didn't.  And so Jesus tells them how they can be easily led to the
proper
room. He tells them that a man (if indeed it was man rather than a
woman, as
the Greek merely means a 'person') carring a pitcher of water.  I
rather
believe that most translators render it correctly as "man," and here is
why.

Carrying water to the house was traditionally always a woman's job. The
sign
of a man carrying a pitcher of water would have been unusual.  But when
a
man with a pitcher of water met the disciples, surely they had the
right man
that Jesus described.  But why the pitcher of water?  Did it have some
spiritual significance above that of being a sign to the disciples?  Or
rather, did it not maybe just have a practical significance?  Do we
ever see
or have reference to this pitcher of water again?  Yes we do.

"Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and
that
He was come from God, and went to God; He rises from supper, and laid
aside
His garments; and took a towel, and girded Himself.  After that He
poured
WATER [from a PITCHER] into a bason, and began to wash the disciples
feet...."  (John 13:3-5).

Sometimes we fail to see the trees for the forest.

God be with you all, Ray
>