bible-truths.com/forums
=> General Discussions => Topic started by: dave on April 13, 2011, 03:16:39 PM
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I would like to know if Revelation is or holds the answers to Daniels prophceys. I went to the main site in hopes to find some information then thought that others may have answers to my wonderings. I do not see Daniel and Revelation working hand in hand. Yet I have conversations with folks who say that the beasts and the horns etc. in Revelation is just a mirror of Daniel. Thanks inadvance.
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I do not see Daniel and Revelation working hand in hand.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Pro 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Psa 119:160 The sum of Your word is truth, And all of Your righteous ordinances are eonian."
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Peace...Mark
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From what I understand the book of Revelation is a book of signs and symbols. It is a spiritual book and one needs to understand(with the Lords help) what it is revealing, in the spirit.
Would not Daniel be more of a foretelling of the temple and 70 A.D.? I in no way understand much of the book I reason to be positive.
I also believe these are times when the Lord is working and doing within His Body.
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Grace...you don't "tackle" the small one's--do you? ;D
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What I meant is: If your going to "wonder about something" you really jump into the "bigg'un's"! Is there ANYTHING in the Bible MORE complicated to understand than
The Book of Revelation"?
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I would like to know if Revelation is or holds the answers to Daniels prophceys. I went to the main site in hopes to find some information then thought that others may have answers to my wonderings. I do not see Daniel and Revelation working hand in hand. Yet I have conversations with folks who say that the beasts and the horns etc. in Revelation is just a mirror of Daniel. Thanks inadvance.
The answers you are looking for are outside the scope of the forum. You may want to search outside the forum to find more insight into this subject.
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The Scriptures hold the key to what these symbols mean. The number of the horns can be symbolic as well.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 8:20 The ram which thou sawest having [two] horns [are] the kings of Media and Persia.
Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Hi Grace,
Here is a link to the FAQ on 'Revelation/Kingdom of God.'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=11637.0
Also here is a link to the conference 'What Is The Gospel Of The Kingdom.'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6142.0.html
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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I would like to know if Revelation is or holds the answers to Daniels prophceys. I went to the main site in hopes to find some information then thought that others may have answers to my wonderings. I do not see Daniel and Revelation working hand in hand. Yet I have conversations with folks who say that the beasts and the horns etc. in Revelation is just a mirror of Daniel. Thanks inadvance.
The answers you are looking for are outside the scope of the forum. You may want to search outside the forum to find more insight into this subject.
Why are they "outside of the scope of the forum?" I have read Rays works, and I am seeking what he may have to say about this. I will be upfront and honest, I come to this site to weigh the truth. When I have been givin to understanding and I dont see, it is then that I turn to Ray Smith and those on the forum. When I get lost and I need answers I turn to L. Ray Smith, he does not round the corners of a square room when he cleans.
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agreed micah7:9, agreed. why should this be outside the scope of this forum, and it be suggested you look someplace else outside this forum for more insight? which other forum on the whole world wide web has the Truths which are expounded on by ray smith and discussed by the forum members, old and new alike? i mean, really? ... and we even have some pretty mature, insightful, and loving members who have already posted on this thread, prior to this exhortation to searching some OTHER forum. :(
claudia
ps. i don't think micah7:9 believes any one of us on this forum, or any other forum, can answer of a surety that the book of revelation holds answers to the prophecies in daniel. i am thinking the question was more about how the two books relate to each other in their content, especially with our knowledge of what ray has written on these matters.
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ok john, et al, i understand your points given and agree with them. but given that, does that mean we cannot even try and discuss the "meatier" subjects which we are beginning to study deeper and want to get a better understanding and insight into? couldn't it be that micah 7:9, or this forum member or that forum member, might have just been wanting to start a discussion with live people to get a better understanding of a subject which ray HAS given time to.
claudia
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Why are they "outside of the scope of the forum?"
Because Ray has not taught on this subject, and the purpose of the forum is to talk about the teachings on bible-truths.com.
Micah7:9, your questions are not new. They continue to come up, again and again...we even created an FAQ post about it but the same questions keep coming back. No one here is equipped to teach the symbolism to Revelation, Daniel, Ezekial, & other books of the bible with heavier symbolism.
I remember Dennis told me once: If anyone here was equipped to be a teacher, God will give them their own platform to teach from. And I've come to truly believe that. Hope you understand.
I have read Rays works, and I am seeking what he may have to say about this. I will be upfront and honest, I come to this site to weigh the truth. When I have been givin to understanding and I dont see, it is then that I turn to Ray Smith and those on the forum. When I get lost and I need answers I turn to L. Ray Smith, he does not round the corners of a square room when he cleans.
Again, we have an entire thread dedicated to what Ray has to say about this (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11637.0.html). Also, if you really feel the need to 'turn to L. Ray Smith', why don't you simply email your question to him?
Also, I'm going to be upfront and honest: I love all the forum members, but none of them are teachers and will be able to answer all the questions. What makes Kat, Samson, Arcturus, and others so adapt at helping other members is because we are so familiar with Ray's teachings, not because we have some increased spiritual knowledge. We're actually better at telling you what's NOT true compared to teaching something new, and again, that's only because we're so familiar with Ray's work...we know where to look and compare. Again, hope you understand.
agreed micah7:9, agreed. why should this be outside the scope of this forum, and it be suggested you look someplace else outside this forum for more insight?
Claudia,
As I told Micah7:9, because he's looking for answers to subjects that have yet to be taught on bible-truths.com. And I know there are plenty of websites, dedicated, to teaching the symbolism to the books of the Bible mentioned above.
Does it mean they have 'all' the truth? No, but they may help in understanding what different symbols mean. From that point, one could compare notes with what they already understand to be true and see where it takes them. It's just simply doing research, that's all.
which other forum on the whole world wide web has the Truths which are expounded on by ray smith and discussed by the forum members, old and new alike? i mean, really?
And I believe this is where the purpose of the forum becomes skewed. To relay what is already been taught on bible-truths is welcome, to teach anew is not. What Micah7:9 was asking for has not been taught.
We praise God for keeping Ray alive up to this point...perhaps we can exercise patience until Ray gets around to teaching on this subject? I actually think it is telling that God has NOT given Ray the answers to these books. Maybe it's a sign we should be focusing on something else?
What Ray has been teaching lately is about who and what is Jesus and who and what is the Father...and also how their and our relationship is and will be. It is a subject that will never end and gives us insight into what happens when God is 'All in All'. The symbolism in the before mentioned books of the Bible will be fulfilled and done with. But our relationship with God is and will be eternal.
... and we even have some pretty mature, insightful, and loving members who have already posted on this thread, prior to this exhortation to searching some OTHER forum. :(
claudia
No we don't :D (I mean in jest)
Anyone can post scriptures...it takes a great teacher to actually help understand what one is reading. As I said before, I love the members here, but none are equipped to be teachers.
Hope this helps and you both understand,
Marques
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Well said & done Marques, Mr. Smith is the elect teacher here, some just don't get that, what nonsense some post is disturbing to new comers on this site, some just can't hold back from posting nonsense to any post which is also off line with the topic.
And yes you're right by quoting those names Kat, Samson, Arcturus
who give evidence of Mr. Smith's teaching from Mr. Smiths teaching, I second that thought.
Understand the topics before posting your 2cents worth, like "wtf" or "gfy"
Be still, there's no reward for the most stupid posts, etc.
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I had 2 Lorna Dune wedding cookies and a Grape Popsicle for breakfast.
Longhorn
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I apologize for posting the scriptures. It was not my mindset to do any type of teaching because I am learning myself and am not qualified to teach, nor do I want to teach. I had just made notes on a study that I had done a few months ago and figured perhaps she could study the scriptures and let them speak for themselves. I respect the rules of the forum and understand why they are laid out the way they are. If this offended anyone, I'm sorry. I certainly don't want it to affect any newcomers or anyone. My words have probably killed enough people in my life and I certainly don't wish to do that to someone just coming to this site. That was not in my heart. Again, I do apologize and will be aware of anything of the sort in the future.
There's no need to apologize Grace, you did nothing wrong and neither has another member. Questions were asked and answered, that's what a discussion board is about.
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I would like to know if Revelation is or holds the answers to Daniels prophceys. I went to the main site in hopes to find some information then thought that others may have answers to my wonderings. I do not see Daniel and Revelation working hand in hand. Yet I have conversations with folks who say that the beasts and the horns etc. in Revelation is just a mirror of Daniel. Thanks inadvance.
The answers you are looking for are outside the scope of the forum. You may want to search outside the forum to find more insight into this subject.
Why are they "outside of the scope of the forum?" I have read Rays works, and I am seeking what he may have to say about this. I will be upfront and honest, I come to this site to weigh the truth. When I have been givin to understanding and I dont see, it is then that I turn to Ray Smith and those on the forum. When I get lost and I need answers I turn to L. Ray Smith, he does not round the corners of a square room when he cleans.
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I am glad that question was asked tho... as we have been studying and learning so many wonderful things on this forum. The teaching on here is all soooo different from the way we were brought up... but it definitely answered many of the questions we had that there didn't seem to be answers for. I was brought up in a ministers home.. my husband in the church from a child... and we NEVER did really know WHAT we believed... or WHY we believed it. Needless to say when we came to BT... we were astonished to see holes poked in almost EVERY THING we thought we knew. It was disturbing to say the least... but at the same time, it brought us to the point of real digging to know the TRUTH. We have been FREED to trust in Gods love... and that He's bringing ALL things into our lives to teach us of His will and His ways. We had many questions about the end times.... (that's really what brought us to this site in the first place... looking for answers to these questions). That being said, the question about Revelation and Daniel, was and is probably one of the leading question of our day.... (everybody around talking about the world ending Dec. 2012). The reply from the moderators here is just what we needed to hear... as it's not HOW this is all going to come about... but that we have hearts pliable, to be molded by the Master Creator.
We love the forum and are extremely thankful for all the wisdom and knowledge that has been given to LR Smith to lead in these matters. We've been astounded, more than once, at the fact that he was a 'roofer'.... OK.... so how and when did the man have the TIME to learn all these things. His mind and body had to have been active 24 hours a day to absorb all that he has tucked away in his mind. Also, even tho he's been so severely ill... he continues to keep alert enough, (in spite of all the meds, etc.) to make sense to all of us in the latest study of God and Jesus. How absolutely marvelous. We are 'eternally' grateful for the blessings God has sent through this man.
God bless you all
Dennis & Connie Hall
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to marques and all other who have responded to my posts.
i guess i have much trouble at times trying to figure out, why when i speak of having a discussion/conversation on some weighty, or meaty subject of the Scriptures that someone else has brought up, it is equated with debate, or teaching. yes, it can turn into a debate, and our mods are spot on at nipping that in the bud. and it is apparent to anyone who has honestly and hourly studied ray's material and the Scriptures, whenever someone is trying to teach something in contradiction to the beliefs on this bt website. i have been reading ray's studies and essays for 5 yrs and been a forum member for 4 yrs. and YES, i read ALL the forum rules before i joined. i know without a doubt, and agree without a doubt, that this forum will not put up with debate, teaching, or anything else that is contradictory to what ray has taught and written about. this IS ray's website.
the forum rules say that it is primarily a place to fellowship with like-minded believers, and secondarily a place to discuss and question the things learned on bible-truths. i have highlighted this part because it is in this spirit that i believed micah 7:9 asked the question regarding the books of daniel and revelation. ray covered the book of revelation with its' signs, symbols, parables, etc. in his lof series. ray has also said that everything in the book of revelation is in the old testament. he has put much work and time into his studies and observations.
lastly, i just wanted to say that i think gordon's response was mean-spirited and judgmental to myself, micah 7:9, and grace.
claudia
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Hi Claudia
all your posts & teachings & prophesy & love and giving & hate & quoting of scriptures ain't gonna change anything because even those that worship other gods & idols is still amongst us without suffering, nothing you do, good or bad will change his WILL.
I was not referring to you, micah & grace only myself, micah 7:9, and grace
see red hi lite, all your, meaning all including me, Gordon.
lastly, i just wanted to say that i think gordon's response was mean-spirited and judgmental to myself, micah 7:9, and grace.
thinking for others is not good, I did not think that way when posting but anyway, I pray that GOD can forgive me for your thoughts. Sorry to you'll if micah & grace thought that way too.
Forgive me Lord God for I've hurt your children, Amen.
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I feel like Puah, the son of Dodo this morning.
Longhorn
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the forum rules say that it is primarily a place to fellowship with like-minded believers, and secondarily a place to discuss and question the things learned on bible-truths. i have highlighted this part because it is in this spirit that i believed micah 7:9 asked the question regarding the books of daniel and revelation. ray covered the book of revelation with its' signs, symbols, parables, etc. in his lof series. ray has also said that everything in the book of revelation is in the old testament. he has put much work and time into his studies and observations.
Claudia,
While Ray has covered some of the symbolism in the book of Revelation, he hasn't covered all or even half. And he certainly hasn't cross-referenced Revelation w/Daniel or Ezekial, as of yet. Micah's exact comment was how does the book of Daniel hold the key to understanding Revelation.
As I told Grace, no one broke the forum rules or anything like that. I simply told Micah7:9 that the answers he was looking for are not here, that's all. I know they are not here because these same questions come up and the most we have are members' speculations and email replies from Ray saying 'I'll write on this subject one day'.
The books of Daniel, Ezekial, Jeremiah, Isaiah, etc. all contain prophecies of the Day of the Lord. As Ray has taught, the Day of the Lord comes unto God Elect in this age now ["I am coming quickly" - Rev 22:20] while unto the rest of the world in the next age. The purpose of this 'day' or period of time is to judge, purge, and change mankind into the image of God. So we all know what is to happen, we just don't understand the 'how' part in working with all the symbolism given in these books of prophecy.
Now, if there are others in the world who may better understand what a symbol means, and we know what is to happen, one could cross-reference these things and perhaps come up with an answer for their own personal study. That's what I mean by going out and researching to find an answer that may not be taught on bible-truths.com. And there's nothing wrong with that: this forum should not be a one-stop-shop for one's spiritual growth and understanding.
One comment I will make on this subject is this: While I have not been on the forum as long as you, I have been here for a good while. And there always seems to be great impatience in understanding all these symbols from the books of prophecy in question. And what makes this ironic is: We already KNOW what is going to happen! :D
We know the world will learn righteousness [Isa 26:9] in that Day [Acts 17:31]. We know all will eventually be changed into a new, spiritual creature [2 Cor 5:17, Gal 6:15]. So why does there always seem to be a sense of urgency for this 'new revelation'? I think it requires a greater amount of faith to trust God to complete His Will, then to know all the details into how He is going to do it. But that's just my opinion, nothing more.
Sorry to be so long-winded all but this was a good subject that was brought up. Hope everyone understands and knows that one's spiritual understanding may outgrow the forum. And that's fine, but don't force anything here when there is a whole world out there with teachings which may help in some way.
Thanks,
Marques