bible-truths.com/forums
=> General Discussions => Topic started by: emkayfey on April 04, 2009, 02:47:57 PM
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Does anyone know if John Hagee has responded in any way to Ray's letter? while I was reading the letter I felt, it's either this man (John Hagee) gives a 'robust response' to this letter or his ministry has effectively packed up, this was a while ago. There are many damning details of erroneous interpretations of the bible by John Hagee (and the likes) raised in the letter, I'm sure any respectable minister would have published a response...I know I might have missed it, if anyone is aware of such, please point me to it.
If there is none, then I wonder what he might have told his congregation, or perhaps has he not seen the letter addresses openly to him? If I found he has not responded, I will like to email him and point his attention to Ray's letter all over again, what do forum members think?
I have recently contacted John Hagee's ministry and the response is posted further down in this thread.
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There is a worldly doctrine that says if you don't agree but you can't refute something, just ignore it. Hagee is well aware that his followers are unlikely to buy into anything written by Ray.
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I do know that Ray was approached to discuss certain Theological issues with some TBN popular heretics by a TV station if I am not mistaken. Ray agreed to attend but when the TBN charlatans found out that Ray Smith was joining the discussion they all found excuses not to attend!
Ray does not only resist the devil, he exposes him!
Arc
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Ray was aked to be a commentator on Tithing by a TV show , not to discuss any other issues or anything about John hagee.. When other church representaives heard that Ray was invited to talk on this particular subject also, thay all then declined.
They do not want any of their pew warmers to think about this topic or search things out for themselves.
beloved
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Hi emkayfey,
Does anyone know if John Hagee has responded in any way to Ray's letter?
Here is an email I found to Ray.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=1228.0 -----
Thanks for the reply, Ray.
Do you receive any feedback from Hagee and Kennedy? Or do you think they just 'delete' your letters without even reading them? I would bet on the latter, just from the arrogance they exude. But I hope they at least acknowledge your research and efforts to spark a change in their scriptural understanding.
Mike
Dear Mike:
No, I am sure that they read them. Especially in the light of the fact that so many have written them personally and ASKED what was their reaction to my letters to them. They have not, however, answered me, neither did I ever expect an answer. Kennedy does have a long form letter for all those who ask him about my letter to him.
God be with you,
Ray
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This Hagee stuff is getting me nervous ::). I have to listen on Sunday :o, because my wife in still captured there >:(. My pennance is on sunday, not today so let the Hagee deception rest ;D.
george. ;D
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Thanks Kat for digging out the letter to Ray and his response (I use to think I've read all of the letters to Ray and his responses, at least all on the bibletruths.com, but you just proved me wrong). I think the letter precisely answers my question.
As a 'christian' I've always sought opportunity to defend/explain what I believed (even more so now), I'm amazed that John Hagee and company failed to respond to Ray's letter, I'm also amazed that they failed to honour TV invitation because of Ray...hmm, (truth and falsehood don't co-exist). I'm however certain John Hagee would have said something to his congregation, I'm just curious to know his line.
Not just John Hagee though, it just so happen that he's one of those that Ray specifically addressed. I will let the forum know of my effort at getting a response from him or knowing about what he told his congregation.
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I took it upon myself to direct him to Ray's website and requesting and open or private response; below is the letter I got back.
April 16, 2009
Dear Emmanuel,
On behalf of John Hagee Ministries, we appreciate the support and confidence you have in Pastor Hagee’s teachings.
Our staff at John Hagee Ministries reviewed your letter. Thank you for providing Pastor Hagee with the information about a website link that is critical of Pastor Hagee and John Hagee Ministries.
We will check the web link at the first opportunity.
Please understand that the demands on this ministry have placed a tremendous responsibility on the hands of our Shepherd and staff. Please understand why he is unable to respond and comment on this web site information.
Because your concerns and needs are important to us, we will attempt to respond to your inquiry if you submit your question in a clearly stated manner. Remember God’s word says, “Delight yourself in the Lord and He will grant you the desires of your heart. Commit your way to the Lord and He will bring it to pass”. [Psalm 27:4]. We pray that God will fill you with His peace and joy for “the joy of the Lord is our strength”. [ Nehemiah 8:10]. God bless you.
Sincerely,
Edward Martinez
John Hagee Ministries
I give up.
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Casting pearls indeed... ::)
Peace...Mark
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Pretty bad when a church/pastor responds to a legitimate question the same way a corporation would respond to a customer.
Craig
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Makes you think that is all it is to them.......BIG business ::)
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It IS Big Business, i still get letters from Hagee, asking for every kind of donation of money.
george. :)
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I do too George.
Sandyk
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I took it upon myself to direct him to Ray's website and requesting and open or private response; below is the letter I got back.
April 16, 2009
Dear Emmanuel,
On behalf of John Hagee Ministries, we appreciate the support and confidence you have in Pastor Hagee’s teachings.
Our staff at John Hagee Ministries reviewed your letter. Thank you for providing Pastor Hagee with the information about a website link that is critical of Pastor Hagee and John Hagee Ministries.
We will check the web link at the first opportunity.
Please understand that the demands on this ministry have placed a tremendous responsibility on the hands of our Shepherd and staff. Please understand why he is unable to respond and comment on this web site information.
Because your concerns and needs are important to us, we will attempt to respond to your inquiry if you submit your question in a clearly stated manner. Remember God’s word says, “Delight yourself in the Lord and He will grant you the desires of your heart. Commit your way to the Lord and He will bring it to pass”. [Psalm 27:4]. We pray that God will fill you with His peace and joy for “the joy of the Lord is our strength”. [ Nehemiah 8:10]. God bless you.
Sincerely,
Edward Martinez
John Hagee Ministries
I give up.
Eww, it's almost as if they simply copied and pasted a template and called it a day. :(
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I've often wondered if pastor Hagee had ever responded to Ray's letter, It would be interesting to see
what he would say if one of his members confronted him directly. But you know people it really saddens
me to think that so many people honestly believe everything he says is the gosple truth, I used to be
one of those people, until one day I began to do something our pastor used to tell us to do, he would
say question anwsers, don't just believe something because someone says it's true, check it out for
yourself, I did, I came across this website (BT), and for about a year and a half now, my perception
of the bible has changed, It's amazing what God will do if you really desire the truth.
P.S. This is my first post, and I just want to say it's a real pleasure to be a part of this forum and to
and to be able to share with you all. God bless you all.
Tiachi,
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I do too George.
Sandyk
Hi SandyK,
I wish my wife would be one of those to say i used to also. It is a most painful thing for me to keep on seeing her go back to this liar for Guidance in Scripture.
george. :)
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Musicman made a good point, I don't think that Hagee is the main problem, its`s the people. It appears to me that Hagee and the likes of him are using Christianity to brain wash people, same with other religions, catholic, etc. principalities of the air sort of thing and most of them are gonna stay just like they are. Religions are very powerful. But I think to another reason for this, Maybe God has only given, or is giving the power only to certain people to believe the truth. Religion to me is just another tradition of men, invented by man not God, I not sure if He even likes it, But I guess he has to use something that points to Him. Just my opinion.
Bless you all. Ricky
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Hi Tiachi,
I see this is your first post, welcome to the forum.
We "really desire the truth" when God gives us that desire, then He draws us to Him.
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
don't just believe something because someone says it's true, check it out for yourself,
You are so right with this.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Ricky, I was reading your post and I hope you don't mind if I comment.
Maybe God has only given, or is giving the power only to certain people to believe the truth.
Yes the truth is the narrow gate, "and there are few who find it."
Mat 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
v. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
The age we live in is an age of darkness where the truth is concerned.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
v. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
We are all deceived - wretched - carnal minded and enmity against God until God drags us to Him (John 6:44).
Titus 3:3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
I don't think that Hagee is the main problem, its`s the people.
There is something to this statement. Paul could see this coming and warned about it in Scripture.
2Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
v. 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
2Tim 3:13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.
But those that are teaching heresy will certainly be held accountable for their subversion and Peter gives us quite an accurate description of what these false teachers are like.
2Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
v. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.
v. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words;
v. 12 and these, as irrational natural beasts, made to be caught and destroyed--in what things they are ignorant of, speaking evil--in their destruction shall be destroyed,
v. 13 about to receive a reward of unrighteousness, pleasures counting the luxury in the day, spots and blemishes, luxuriating in their deceits, feasting with you,
v. 14 having eyes full of adultery, and unable to cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having an heart exercised in covetousnesses, children of a curse,
v. 15 having forsaken a right way, they did go astray, having followed in the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who a reward of unrighteousness did love,
v. 16 and had a rebuke of his own iniquity--a dumb a@@, in man's voice having spoken, did forbid the madness of the prophet.
v. 17 These are wells without water, and clouds by a tempest driven, to whom the thick gloom of the darkness to the age hath been kept; (YLT)
Just thought I would give some Scriptures on the subject.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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i too wanted to welcome tiachi. it is a wonderful day when our Lord God leads us out of the churches of our day, and out of the doctrines of man. i know that you also tiachi give praises to your Father for calling you out of the man made doctrines which are spewed from the pulpits all over the world. thanks to you too kat for the scriptures you have provided. they have been a resounding confirmation of what ray smith has been shouting from the Scriptures to all who would hear.
claudia
p.s. john hagee is a dumbbutt. :o
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Nicely done Kat, thank you. :)
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Hi emkayfey
I have no doubt you submitted a question like, Why don’t you reply to the article Ray sent to you?
Here is the in between the lines response to you /us/anyone who is being dragged out of Hagee Ministries/Babylon.
Only an imbecile and fool can miss that WE (Hagee Ministries) have responded by saying, “sorry, too busy for Ray,” but WE will give you OUR (Hagee Ministries) holier than thou benefit of OUR generous time and doubt worrying about you because YOU emkayfey might be important to us if we can deceive you into joining US (Hagee Ministries.)
Ray is a lost cause on his way to Hagee hell. We don’t want to bare all our teeth to scare you off so we have flattered you into believing that YOU might be important instead of drawing your attention to how we really feel about Ray Smith.
WE are being very Godly by giving you our attention because WE the great Hagee Ministries have the discernment to decide if you are important or not. Don’t be deceived. WE have the power to make you important. OUR decision will depend on your obedience to US and your tithe of course. No one can ever become more important than OUR Alpha Male Wolf head of the congregation.
Remember that WE (Hagee Ministries is telling YOU in writing to commit YOUR way to the Lord because WE can see that YOU are NOT doing this! Why else did you send us that letter with Ray Smiths name in it? WE have the proof that YOU are in peril of Hell!
So, just in case WE can WIN YOUR SOUL AND MAKE YOU INTO another tithe payer notice how soft our clothing can get when YOU see US as so holy that only WE can cause God to fill YOU with His peace and joy. If God does not do as WE ask, then that is OUR proof that YOU have chosen Hell. What more do we need?
To cover all our bases and just in case you are not entirely convinced by our deception and self glorification's, then as a last ditch effort WE are telling YOU to pay careful attention that at YOUR peril YOU try to take on the strength of the Hagee Ministry. OUR strength is the Joy of the Lord and YOU are in peril of hell. WE will send you to Hell if you ignore OUR warning that the joy of the Lord is the Hagee strength. Watch out!
We have warned YOU. OUR warning rewards US with immunity from correction from the Lord because WE will tell Him when He comes what WE did and THAT will impress Him. That guarantees our reward. If YOU join us YOU will be OUR witness as are thousands of others who are in OUR congregation. We will win your soul or at least get the reward for trying. Look at how many we have won already. If you don’t join us then you are lost. We know how to get God to approve of us AND by making ourselves separate from YOU until you come to US on bended knee and beg us to forgive you, then you will know how IMPORTANT WE are.
WE will not join YOU EVER. Whosoever will bend their knee to us is joined to us. Break that pose and the relationship is over. WE know that Ray shall never be joined to us. Ray is STANDING but YOU, well, you might still be luke warm but if not and if you still decide not to join us, it will be at YOUR peril.
So if YOU make God angry with YOU by coming against US, wasting our time, ticking us off with ideas you get from the Word of God then know that you will be racking up reasons to go to Hell for upsetting us and going against GOD’s joy which is OUR strength. At your peril you dare to upset us. Its your choice! Be warned. We have YOU as OUR witness that WE warned you. God HAS to reward us for that.
Signed the almost perfect proselyte of John Hagee.
Emkayfey, God is surely dragging you out of Babylon!
You can send them this TRANSLATION of the reply they sent to you if you like. I don’t think it would last a second on their notice board! Ha! It would just be another thing to burn until God brings to them the correction they shall receive, the repentance they will experience, the Righteousness of God that they will be taught and the Truth that shall liberate them from their debauched, corrupted reprobate minds and wicked stony self resilient hearts.
AND quote :
God is not willing that any should perish… God’s will is that all should be saved… God has commissioned His Son to be Savior of the world… God is love… love never fails… God will do all of His pleasure…http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6452.0.html
Arc
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Hi Acturus
That was an interesting hypothetical reply from John Hagee (by you). I am really concerned (should I be concerned? ???) as to why a 'minister of God' would behave like a Politician and just ignore such damning critique of his message. This reminds me of Creflo Dollar who was using the 'Drilling to hell story' to preach on Easter 2009! eventhough the story has been evidently dicredited...saw the video on youtube, hilarious.
I seem to have this heart of getting the message to people and so far, no one has engaged me critically on any of Ray's teaching I've sent. I promised myself I am not responsible for anyone but soon after find myself forwarding links and pasting Ray's teaching in email to people, I am happy God is powerful enough to accomplish all that He desires.
Peace
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Hi, I can see the truth over here to, the First and the Last. It was here in the first century, then man, religions and church`s made a mess of the truth and turn in into money and false teachings. Now it is here again in the last century, if this is the last one. I have always wondered something about How God chose the Few that are chosen. Why them? what makes them so important to God. And I thought to myself maybe the truth believers of today are spiritually connected to the ones of the first century. And it goes with the last shall be first and the first shall be last to be rasied. Nothig to be believe here folks, just my thougts.
Ricky
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Hi Ricky,
I have always wondered something about How God chose the Few that are chosen. Why them? what makes them so important to God.
These verses explain it for me.
1Co 1:26 For consider your call, brethren; not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth;
v. 27 but God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong,
v. 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are,
v. 29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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look at what Hagee and his company would have to give up by responding to that letter. He has a successful ministry right now and lots of money. The blind leading the blind and but by the grace of God we would all be there.
blind and deaf.
o 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, because love is of God, and everyone who loves has been generated from God, and knows God.
1Jo 4:8 The one who does not love has not known God, because God is love.
1:4 And we write these things to you, that your joy may be full.
1Jo 1:5 And this is the message which we have heard from Him, and we proclaim to you: God is light, and no darkness is in Him, none!
1Jo 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and we walk in darkness, we lie and are not practicing the truth.
1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of His Son Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous that He may forgive us the sins, and may cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.
I am sure that since we are all so concerned about Jn Hagee and his company we will all be in prayer for them may we grow in Christ Jesus
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The people that feed Hagee are brainwsahed by him, all they do is give him money. Has anyone on BT ever heard someone say, Hi I am from John Hegee, I dont believe him anymore, I believe you now. I am not to sure if any of them could be chosen or not.
Ricky
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I last attended hagee's religion back in 99 and came out of her and sought more into the Spiritual Truths of the Word of God. THEN i came across Eby, mike, and B-T's. as i was a bit sceptical at 1st, there were 3 back then in '99: B-T's , mike and Eby rang similar Truths. and after a great exodus and separation one had to be Grown in the Spirit, to distinguish the fallen and the falling.
still the hagee experience is a reassurance my Spirit is of a good foundation. I thank God always for everything given to me in Enlightenment and none else. Thus i believe In my gifted Faith in the Word of God.
So yeah i came out of hagee's circus side show, by a calling to come out of her. And i am lead to Fellowship where ever God leads me too like minded Spirits.
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The people that feed Hagee are brainwsahed by him, all they do is give him money. Has anyone on BT ever heard someone say, Hi I am from John Hegee, I dont believe him anymore, I believe you now. I am not to sure if any of them could be chosen or not.
Ricky
Ricky,
You may be shocked to know that many of the brethren and sisthren including myself; once spent lot of time and money with and for hagee's ministry. It is not something to be proud of, but it is something to be Proud Of GOD THE FATHER And Our Lord Jesus Christ Who Only Can and Will Save us all from our adversaries.
Even when writing scathingly about our currently still lost (destroyed and perished) sisters and brothers, we can but Give Thanks To our Lord And Saviour for His Selfless Act Of Dying for His Enemies. (We were all once enemies; we will all (everyone) be kin)
That enemy was us, who are now made kin to Him Through His Gift Of Grace through Faith which allows us to reckon ourselves dead now in the flesh, but Alive with Him in Spirit.
1Co 10: 30-33 (KJV)
30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.
Eph 2: 4-13 (MKJV)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us
5 (even when we were dead in sins) has made us alive together with Christ (by grace you are saved),
6 and has raised us up together and made us sit together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus,
7 so that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Therefore remember that you, the nations, in time past were in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 and that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who were once afar off are made near by the blood of Christ.
The reason we groan i8n pain is for our currently lost sisters and brothers who we should long for not ridicule or doubt that anymore will be called our or chosen.
Please take this in the spirit given, which is, (there but for The Grace And Faith Of GOD; go any one of us even now)
george. :)