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You gave me so much more than I asked for !  THANK YOU!  The search engine is hit and miss for me at times.  Maybe I’m too specific of too broad ?     I loved it when you said you didn’t mind being the blind man looking for him, because he is not far from any of us. He is real and a rewarder of those who seek him.  _
 And all the glory goes to Him.
If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.  Romans 8:1

Thanks aktikt, that helped immensely with understanding the physical aspect of Jesus' death and resurrection. However, it seems the former member named microlink, whom Anjel was quoting from the link you provided, may be conflating the amount of time Jesus was dead in the tomb with Jesus being in the heart of the earth. Thus, microlink completely missed the whole point of the parable of Jonah in the belly of the whale.

I'm not saying microlink said that with the intention of deceiving, as he may not have been aware of Ray's revised understanding of that parable five or six years before microlink said all that. 

Thank you so much Pamela, I found it with your tip about searching on this forum. Here is a short quote from Ray and a link if anyone is interested.

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,11616.msg100492.html#msg100492

I'll just give you the gist of the answer, as my time is limited right now. Jesus called "three days and three nights in the HEART OF THE EARTH," "the SIGN of Jonah."  Now then, if Christ was to be DEAD for the exact period of TIME of three days and three nights, How then could that be "the sign of Jonah?" JONAH WAS NOT DEAD AT ALL!!! Jonah went through 'A LIVING HELL' if you will! Besides, Jesus was NOT buried in the "HEART" of the earth, He was buried in an ABOVE THE EARTH TOMB! Maybe twenty inches or so on the other side of a big stone.

"In the HEART OF THE EARTH" is a parable showing the unbelievable agony of the human spirit and flesh that Jesus would go through LEADING UP TO and INCLUDING the time in the tomb. And those three days began on the PREPARATION FOR THE PASSOVER (John 19:14), seeing that Jesus, HIMSELF, was to BE THE PASSOVER!!!

And don't forget the AGONY IN THE GARDEN when Jesus SWEAT BLOOD!! No one will ever know what torture He endured those "three days and three nights in the HEART OF THE EARTH." BEFORE the beatings and crucifixion we read this:

"NOW is My SOUL TROUBLED [Greek: DISTRESSED, IN TURMOIL!]; and what shall I say? Father, save Me from this hour: but for his cause came I unto THIS HOUR" (John 23:27).

The "heart of the earth" is the very DEPTH OF THE FLESH. The flesh of man is "of the EARTH, EARTHY" Paul tells us.
===================================================================================

There are a number of verses from various translations of the bible that state that Jesus was raised from AMONG or OUT from “the dead”. I'm hoping the difference will make the difference.

Heb 11:17  By faith Abraham hath offered up Isaac, being tried, and the only begotten he did offer up who did receive the promises,
Heb 11:18  of whom it was said--`In Isaac shall a seed be called to thee;'
Heb 11:19  reckoning that even out of the dead God is able to raise up, whence also in a figure [Greek: parable] he did receive him.

Abraham did not actually sacrifice Isaac, so Isaac did not die, but Isaac was as good as dead as far as Abraham was concerned. Isaac is a type of Christ, Christ being the true spiritual Seed.

Gal_3:16  Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say "and to seeds," as though referring to many, but and to your seed, referring to one, who is Christ.

Here's a quote from the Psalms, they were written about Jesus.

Psa 88:2 Let my prayer, come into thy presence, Bow down thine ear to my loud cry.
Psa 88:3 For my soul, is sated with misfortunes, And, my life—unto Hades, hath drawn near;
Psa 88:4 I am counted with them who descend into the pit, I have become as a man that is without help;
Psa 88:5 Among the dead, is my couch,—Like the slain that lie in the grave, Where thou rememberest them no more, Yea, they, from thy hand, are cut off;
Psa 88:6 Thou hast laid me, In the lowest pit, In dark places, In the deeps:
Psa 88:7 Upon me, hath rested thine indignation, And, with all thy breakers, hast thou caused affliction. Selah.

Can you see how these all agree perfectly with Jesus being in 'the heart of the earth' for three days and three nights "among the dead" as Jonah was? But the Father did not leave His Son in that corruption, in that dust of the earth, that Hades where the spiritually dead know nothing, where we once were. Neither will the same Spirit of the Father and Son leave us in that condition, either.

Compare that quote from Psalms to the parable stating Jonah was in the belly of the whale for three days and three nights.

Jon 2:1  Jonah prayed to the LORD his God from inside the fish:
Jon 2:2  I called to the LORD in my distress, and He answered me. I cried out for help in the belly of Sheol; You heard my voice.
Jon 2:3  You threw me into the depths, into the heart of the seas, and the current overcame me. All Your breakers and Your billows swept over me.
Jon 2:4  But I said: I have been banished from Your sight, yet I will look once more toward Your holy temple.
Jon 2:5  The waters engulfed me up to the neck; the watery depths overcame me; seaweed was wrapped around my head.
Jon 2:6  I sank to the foundations of the mountains; the earth with its prison bars closed behind me forever! But You raised my life from the Pit, LORD my God!
Jon 2:7  As my life was fading away, I remembered the LORD. My prayer came to You, to Your holy temple.
Jon 2:8  Those who cling to worthless idols forsake faithful love,
Jon 2:9  but as for me, I will sacrifice to You with a voice of thanksgiving. I will fulfill what I have vowed. Salvation is from the LORD!
Jon 2:10  Then the LORD commanded the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dry land.

Here's the best part. Jonah (in Jonah 2:6) compares being in the fish to being in a prison on earth. This prompted me to remember what Peter said.

1Pe 3:18  For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that He might bring you to God, after being put to death in the fleshly realm but made alive in the spiritual realm.
1Pe 3:19  In that state He also went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison
1Pe 3:20  who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while an ark was being prepared; in it, a few--that is, eight people--were saved through water.
1Pe 3:21  Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the pledge of a good conscience toward God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
1Pe 3:22  Now that He has gone into heaven, He is at God's right hand, with angels, authorities, and powers subjected to Him.

Peter states that Jesus went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison in 1Peter 3:19. Jonah also made a proclamation to the people in the city of Nineveh.

Jon 3:4  Jonah set out on the first day of his walk in the city and proclaimed, "In 40 days Nineveh will be overthrown!"
Jon 3:5  The men of Nineveh believed in God. They proclaimed a fast and dressed in sackcloth--from the greatest of them to the least.

In 1Peter 3:18, Peter states that Jesus brought us to God while we were in prison, while Jesus was in the spirit. Was Jesus never in the spirit as a man even before He died? Yes, I believe Jesus was always in the spirit.

Now compare all this with the fact Jesus was in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights. What do we suppose Jesus in all that darkness was doing there? Why He was preaching repentance of course, just like Jonah.

Mat 4:16  The people who live in darkness have seen a great light, and for those living in the shadowland of death, light has dawned.
Mat 4:17  From then on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, because the kingdom of heaven has come near!"

Tell me that these do not sound like the Hades of Jonah.

Luk 1:79  to shine on those who live in darkness and the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Jesus is the light, but that darkness or corruption did not overcome Him while He was there.

Joh 1:5  That light shines in the darkness, yet the darkness did not overcome it.

What is the bottom line? The bottom line is darkness represents spiritual Hades where the spiritually dead do not know God. Spiritual Hades represents total ignorance of the Lord. Jesus was never corrupted by that because He says:

Joh 7:28  As He was teaching in the temple complex, Jesus cried out, "You know Me and you know where I am from. Yet I have not come on My own, but the One who sent Me is true. You don't know Him;
Joh 7:29  I know Him because I am from Him, and He sent Me."

It's not the spiritually deads fault for not knowing God because Jesus says He never knew them to begin with, despite the fact they claim to know Him by calling Him Lord.

Mat 7:21  "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord!' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Mat 7:22  On that day many will say to Me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?'
Mat 7:23  Then I will announce to them, 'I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!'

I'll stop there for now, but I am interested in any thoughts the forum members may have.

See this thread.

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,17532.msg160254.html#msg160254

Wonderful find Porter, thank you.

Rose , I found this short email from Ray.

Dear Reader
Jesus was resurrected with a spiritual body… 1 Corth.15:44-50

For the benefit of those with physical eyes, Jesus appeared numerous times
in human form.

John 20:15, John 21:14, Luke 24:13-16

Porter… I typed heart of the earth in the search engine and there is a
post by Dennis from Ray  Mar.26, 2010, called Was Jesus in the heart
Of the earth for three days and three night's?

In the heart of the earth is a parable that does have a second witness.
I’m sure you will find it.
That search engine is great and always works for me.

All praise and glory to our Lord Jesus Christ.
God Bless You All, love Pamela 💕

Hi Rose, I used to take this to mean Jesus literally laid His life down when He physically died, and that He then literally resurrected Himself. But now you got me thinking; is there some deeper spiritual aspect to this? I did some digging around in the bible and learned a few things, but those things may need verification from who ever is willing. Either way, here's what I found from Ray on the subject.

https://bible-truths.com/email13.htm

The world thinks that Jesus was just a good man that was brutally murdered by the Jews: that is not what happened. Jesus voluntarily gave his life, that's right, he did not have to die but he chose to die for you and for me and the rest of the world. 17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. John 1:17-18 KJV

Whom do you love enough to voluntarily die for? Jesus died for the people that were torturing him to death.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Revelations 13:8 KJV

You did read that verse right, Jesus knew before he created the world that mankind was going to turn away from GOD and that he would have to die in order to redeem them.

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,6719.msg53823.html#msg53823

His Father says, ‘well done Son, but if You are going to pay it, I’m going to hold you to it.’ He said, okay, and the Father says, ‘You sure You want to do this?’  He says, Yea I want to do it. Did His Father say I’m going to make you pay their debts? Go out there and gather up their debts and I’m going to make You, I’m going to force You and in fact I’ll beat the tar out of You if You don’t pay their debts? Do we read that in the Scriptures anywhere?

Jesus is Himself of His own volition volunteering to be an OFFERING for these debts. He is OFFERING [the verb] to be the OFFERING [the noun]. Jesus Christ said;

John 10:18  No man takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.

Does it not say that? Did He have to die? He volunteered! But His Father said, okay I’m going to hold You to it. Now Jesus Christ has all these debts on His shoulders, trillions of dollars worth of debts, because He says I will take them, I will pay them. Did He at any place or time in His life incur those debts? No! Is He guilty of those debts that we all committed? No! Does He become our debt? Can we say now, ‘I didn’t commit any sins, He did? Did the Father ever say, since You volunteered to pay their debts, You’ve guilty of their debts?  Did He ever say that?

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,3720.0.html


Grace will save you, so why die? Did Christ have to die? Why did God want to die? Why would God want to become a man? When I say God I’m talking about Jehovah, Jesus Christ. Did the Father ‘make’ His Son Jesus die? Did He ‘take’ His Son’s life? NO!

John 10:17  For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it up again.
v. 18  No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father."

Jesus VOLUNTEERED HIS LIFE for us!! While we were yet sinners (Rom. 5:08). What the law couldn’t do and we couldn’t do, CHRIST DID (Rom. 8:3).

We must experience sin before we can be saved from it! How did Elohim come to a knowledge of “good and evil?” We aren’t told.

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,11521.0.html

You see that word, He was MADE. He wasn’t always that way. He had to be MADE that way. Now, if He were just a man born of a woman, He wouldn’t have had to be made anything.  Any man born of a woman will die. “It is appointed unto all men once to die,” but the only way Jesus could die was that God had to MAKE Him lower than the angels, so that He could die. Are you following me? Does it make sense? That Jesus was not ‘just’ born, before He got to the process of actually being born. He had to be MADE something else from what He was. WHY? Because what He was, He couldn’t die. God didn’t force this on Him. We learn all through the scriptures, Jesus Christ ‘volunteered.’

John 10:17  Therefore doth my Father love Me, because I lay down My life, that I might take it again.
v. 18  No man takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.

He said nobody takes My life. God the Father did not say, I’m going to sacrifice You, come hell or high water and You aren’t going to have nothing to say about it. He said, “I lay down My life,” “I” do it, He says. He volunteered.

So, He was made a little lower than the angels for or because of the fact that He had to die.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
================================================================

If I could try to articulate what I have learned, it would be to say Jesus held back his human nature for our sakes. He laid His life or soul (as some translations put it) down for us. He didn't let His human emotions overcome Him because His Father wouldn't let it happen. The very means by which Jesus' Father didn't let it happen is by the means of love. The Father knows the Son, and the Son knows the Father.   

Jesus fasted by humbling Himself with the understanding He could do nothing of Himself. He made Himself lower than the messengers through the belief we are worth dying for; the sinless died for the sinful. If we are in Him we are not able to sin [a certain sin], so we too must "die" to ourselves for those that do sin. Like Jesus, we understand people can't help to be the way they are, so why blame them? It's only by the goodness of God that anyone repents.

1Jn 3:17  Whoever has the means of life of the world, and sees his brother having need, and shuts up his heart of compassion from him, how does the love of God abide in him?

Our death is through mercy and compassion, and these are accomplished by and in the Spirit where no one can see except God. Are we not after all seeking His praises of love and mercy rather the praises of men?

Mat 6:3  But you doing merciful deeds, do not let your left know what your right hand does,
Mat 6:4  so that your merciful deeds may be in secret. And your Father seeing in secret Himself will repay you in the open.

If these are how Jesus laid His life down, how did He pick His life back up? Is it in the same way we saw Him going into heaven?

Luk 21:27  And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and much glory.

Joh 17:5  And now Father, glorify Me with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the existence of the world.

The next question that comes to mind is, is Jesus still the humble man He became before He humbled Himself to the point of death? I don't think so because He does not give glory to Himself does He?

Mat 28:18  And coming up Jesus talked with them, saying, All authority in Heaven and on earth was given to Me.

That same Spirit is now alive in you, made possible by the fact He was given all authority in heaven and earth. I know how hard that is to believe because I wrestle with the idea daily. Doubt, disbelief and even vanity are my best friends, so it's incumbant for me that I try to understand them fully through experience. Perhaps that is how faith is tried and then made better.

What do you think, Rose? Am I close? Whether you or anyone agrees or disagrees or sees it a better way, it would really help. I have no problem trying to feel after Him like a blind man because at the very least I know He isn't far from any one of us; He is real and a rewarder of those who seek Him.

By the way, I'm not denying the fact Jesus literally and volunteerily died and was raised from the dead. Everyone here knows that is true. However, maybe not everyone knows He denied His human nature to be able to have compassion and mercy on us now that He knows how that feels personally. Was He was saved from "death" before He ever died physcially?

Heb 5:7  During His earthly life, He offered prayers and appeals, with loud cries and tears, to the One who was able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence.
Heb 5:8  Though a Son, He learned obedience through what He suffered.

This reminds me of where Ray said how Jesus was in the heart of the earth for three days and nights, in the same way Jonah was in the belly of the whale (with all the nastiness that comes with that) for the same amount of time.

https://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html

Was Jesus "literally" dead in His tomb for "three days and three nights" as He used as a sign for the Pharisees? How does one get "three days AND three nights to fit between Good Friday sunset and Easter Sunday morning? That's "literally" only one day and two nights. The answer is in understanding that the sign of Jonah is not literal, but is rather a parable also. What is "the heart of the earth?" It does not stand for His tomb or grave.
==================================================================

Unfortunately, I cannot find the exact quote where Ray went into detail about Jesus being in the heart of the earth where He experienced the worst humanity had to offer while Jesus was still alive.

Which brings me to another verse:

Act 2:27  because You will not leave My soul in Hades, nor will You give Your Holy One to see corruption.

It's widely believed this is talking about Jesus' dead body not rotting in the tomb having only been in the tomb for a couple of days. I myself am not fully convinced that is all it means, even if partially true.

1Co 15:54  But when this corruptible [...the flesh is weak. - Mat. 26:41] shall put on incorruption, and this mortal shall put on immortality, then will take place the Word that has been written, "Death was swallowed up in victory."

Is 1Co 15:54 any different from these?

Gal_3:27  For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
 
Eph 4:22  For you have put off the old man, as regards the former behavior, having been corrupted according to the deceitful lusts,
Eph 4:23  and to be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
Eph 4:24  and to put on the new man, which according to God was created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col 3:12  Therefore, as elect ones of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassions, kindness, humility, meekness, long-suffering,
Col 3:13  bearing with one another and forgiving yourselves, if anyone has a complaint against any; even as Christ forgave you, so also you should forgive.

How could Jesus be heard (Heb. 5:7) if Jesus was unable to speak being physcially dead? Was Jesus saved from two deaths; one of the physical and another of the spiritual? Not gonna lie, this stuff is so hard to understand. You always have some of the toughest questions Rose. Sorry if I may have confused you in all my fumbling about trying to understand or that I didn't help any. Perhaps what Ray said about all this is enough. I can rest in that.

Hi all, How would you explain when Jesus says he laid down his life and he will raise it up again ?  I know Ray talked about this somewhere.  God raised him from the dead but was Jesus referring to his physical life ?? I need some help getting it straight in my own mind to pass it on. Thanks.

Google…. Title

Quantum Mechanics Just Revealed A Scientific Reason For God’s Omnipresence

Spacialize

Thanks Ralph and Bob for your responses. I’m at peace with everything and just remember it’s all Gods intention for each of our lives. I’m always reminded of my own struggles and shortcomings so as not to judge anyone.

You are welcome Doug. "I’m always reminded of my own struggles and shortcomings ",  I can certainly relate to that.

Thanks Ralph and Bob for your responses. I’m at peace with everything and just remember it’s all Gods intention for each of our lives. I’m always reminded of my own struggles and shortcomings so as not to judge anyone.

Thank you Doug for the reply and explanation.
I responded in generalities and you provided more of the story to help me understand.
Thank you for the kindness. Bob from Indiana