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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: mrsnacks on June 18, 2007, 06:17:40 PM
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I have sat in Bible studies where it seems that anyone in the natural mind could figure out the Bible stories and a proper application. I started to wonder years ago that maybe it God wasn't making the meaning so obvious. I know the answer to the question I am asking but I want some more feedback. The stories of the Bible is not just about history of what happened. It is not just stories where we can learn from. If it is all a parable then the meaning is even deeper than that.
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We sure get into deeper waters when we start talking about the bible being one big parable. Personally I sometimes feel like I'm going to sink, it's so mind boggling. But I think God is bringing me through that phase where it's mind boggling at first, then it starts to become more and more simple. More days are coming now where I am at peace, not having to know every single story and what it spiritually means! Truth be told, I have not read every single page of the bible. I tried to get through it once (you know, one of those "read the bible in a year" programs) and I got quite far, but most of the time I had not a clue what I was reading. I just felt a carnal sense of accomplishment that I had at least done my "bible reading" for the day. I'm such a terribly unorganized person, that I truly felt proud I was at least doing something that was systematic. Imagine that!
Now I have joyfully reverted to my true personality...spontaneity! I have no idea what part of the bible I am going to read with any given day, and I've never gotten so much out of it!
It amazes me how the story and plan of salvation is interwoven into all the stories (that I've read). And I am beginning to see the underlying theme of "The many called, the few chosen" everywhere!
I suspect there are multiple "proper" applications to people's personal lives as they read them, but I do now see that there is also almost a "secret code" unveiled to a very few. The treasure map for the would be Elect.
Peace,
Diana
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Mrsnacks,
You seem to beat me to all of the questions I want to ask! ;) I was going to post this question- Is everything in the Bible to be taken figuratively-or seen in a spiritual light? I have been reading it that way and I do get so much more out of it. When I first read that the Bible was one big parable, I was skeptical, but I can truly say that when ones eyes are opened to seeing the stories behind the stories it's just absolutely amazing. It's a whole new book. And to think that these were things that really happened, yet they have an even deeper meaning than the reality, wow. That's the God that I never saw, and that I never knew! The God who IS in complete control!!
Beth
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par·a·ble noun
1. a short allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson.
2. a statement or comment that conveys a meaning indirectly by the use of comparison, analogy, or the like.
This is what the Bible does best. Yes most of the stories are true , but represent a higher spiritual lesson. In this way the bible is "Like" a parable, In that the figurative treatment of one subject is under the guise of another.
Best way i can explain it.
Peace
Chris R
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I had to spend some time looking at this to try and understand what Ray meant.
It is about as difficult to understand as free will, and requires some additional effort.
I found some information on this in "The Mystery of the Kingdom" by Andrew Jukes that has helped me with it. This can be found in The Collected Works of Andrew Jukes by searching google for Andrew Jukes.
The basic reasoning for this comes from 2 Peter 1:20 which says:
"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."
Then understanding that scripture has a literal story or interpretation, but that it also has a spiritual interpretation that can be applied. Andrew Jukes shows examples of the Apostles applying this by taking out of context Old Testament scripture to support what they say in the New Testament scripture.
Orlando
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From;
TWELVE GOD-GIVEN TRUTHS TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORD
(#5) Everything from Genesis to Revelation pertains to a higher SPIRITUAL meaning than the physical examples, parables, metaphors, allegories, stories and symbols in which they are written.
http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm
Joe
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Thus, after first being taken physically, we have a deep spiritual meaning in the words. Just adding a thought to the quote Joe brought ya.
Matt
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I don't know if this should be another thread. I want this to continue by you giving examples of what God has shown you in the story behind the story. Give a verse or two and show the spiritual lesson represented. I am sure that what you will show is contrary to what the natural mind can come up with or even what Christendom teaches. Thanks
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Hi mrsnacks,
These emails will help explain the Bible has a physical/literal and a symbolic/spiritual meaning to it. But it takes the Holy Spirit to understand the spiritual interpretation of scripture.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2834.0.html ---------------
Dear Daniel:
I have said many many times the past year or two that WE MUST PAY VERY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE WORDS!!
When people write in the venacular, it is ASSUMED that their readers have at least a minimum of worldly understanding. When Shakespeare wrote: "Life is but a poor actor who struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more. A tale as told full of sound and fury signifying nothing." (or something like that) He was not trying to cover every literaly aspect of human life. Only that in the end, little was accomplished by any one man's existence. (or at least his opinion)
Now then, did not James make the exact same statement as Shakespeare when he wrote: "For what is your life? It is even A VAPOUR, that appears for a little time, and then vanishes away" (James 4:14). Yes, that is exactly what Shakespeare said, in fact, I would not doubt that he got his version from James. But do James and Shakespeare LIE? Is not life considerably MORE THAN A VAPOR? It is a generalization in the form of a metaphor to show us a great and grand spiritual truth. And that is precisely what I am doing when I state that "The Bible is One Giant PARABLE." Do you think that I gave no thought at all to what I was saying before shouting that phraise over the worldwide web?
A parable is a physical story which points to a SPIRITUAL TRUTH. As God creates "A NEW HEAVEN AND A NEW EARTH," just what is there about this present heaven and earth that will "LITERALLY" last eternally? Besides I did not say that "The Bible is One Giant FICTION," now did I? No, I said that the Bible is one giant PARABLE. And the contents of a parable (not the Bible, but a PARABLE, are fictitious. ALL of the "literal" history, etc., in the Bible is NOT THE REAL THING. It is merely the ways and means TO THE REAL THING, which is Spiritual. "First that which is natural; and AFTERWARD that which is SPIRITUAL" (I Cor. 15:46).
Now let's look at your example which you seem to think proves my premise wrong:
"To the contrary, a large portion of the scriptures is historical data about literal kingdoms, countries, cities, and people. When Jesus said in John 14:2 I go to prepare a place (Greek word “topos”) for you, He was speaking of a literal location. The greek word “topos” is used over and over again to indicate a literal, physical location."
COMMENT: You are forgetting one thing, Daniel, "The WORDS [as in 'I go to prepare a PLACE...'] that I speak unto you, THEY ARE SPIRIT...." Oops.
"Moreover, it is my view that there will be a literal beast kingdom that will be given power “over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations”. (Revelations 13:7)."
COMMENT: "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a BEAST rise up out of the sea, having SEVEN HEADS and TEN HORNS, and upon his horns TEN CROWNS, and upon his beads the NAME OF BLASPHEMY...like unto a LEOPARD, and his feet were as the feet of a BEAR, and his mouth as the mouth of a LION...." And you say this is "LITERAL," do you? What beast is there that can first of all "blaspheme?" Have SEVEN HEAD?" With TEN HORNS?" Is a cross between a LEOPARD, BEAR and a LION? And it LIVES IN THE O-C-E-A-N? "Literal?" Am I going to fast for you?
God be with you,
Ray
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1944.0.html ---------------
Dear Dave:
More accurately, I have said: "The whole Bible is one giant parable."
By that I mean that virtually nothing is a literal teaching, but a spiritual teaching. From the opening statements concerning "Let us make [be making, or making[ man in Our [spiritual] Image" to "And whosoever will [desires] let him take the water of [spiritual] life freely," the Church has not a clue as to what is being spoken of. Hence, the doctrines of Egypt have replaced the Truths of God's Word. The result is the teaching that God's first plan failed utterly, and plan B doesn't seem to be fairing much better. The whole world is going to hell in a handbasket for all eternity, and there is nothing that God can do to change it or correct it or save humanity. What a crock. A Perfect God does not create eternal failings. All the evils of this modern world are exactly where God foreordained them to be. All is heading for a perfect and flawless and marvelous eternal destiny. "The wise shall understand" (Dan. 12:10).
God be with you,
Ray
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2297.0.html ---------------------------
"You shall surely strike the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword-utterly destroying it" (Deut. 13)
I know this isn't to be taken literally, but what exactly does it mean?
~Magen
Dear Magen:
No, it absolutely is to be taken literally. First the PHYSICAL, and then the SPIRITUAL (I Cor. 15:46).
First the PHYSICAL sword and death to the body, then the SPIRITUAL sword and death to the carnal mind (Rev. 19:15). The whole Bible is ONE GIANT PARABLE.
God be with you,
Ray
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mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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I don't know if this should be another thread. I want this to continue by you giving examples of what God has shown you in the story behind the story. Give a verse or two and show the spiritual lesson represented. I am sure that what you will show is contrary to what the natural mind can come up with or even what Christendom teaches. Thanks
A few years ago, when I was trying to figure out some things that were going on in my life, God led me to this verse:
Jeremiah 33
3Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.
At the time, I just assumed that He would reveal some things in my carnal life that were unknown to me when He felt I was ready. My carnal mind thought, "Oh goody, I'll finally know what's really going on with so and so." I now realize the great and mighty things were learning His truths. I have prayed to God a zillion times to "show me truths that I do not know", and I had no idea what I was asking for! My carnal mind thought that the fleshy secrets of others were great and mighty things. Oh how wrong I was!
I've been reading more of the bible these days and often I come across a verse or scripture and my eyes will bug out and I will say, "What, where did THAT come from? Has that been in there the whole time? ??? " It's really mind-boggling to read some of the same scriptures I've read over the years and to come away with a completely different understanding.
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I know what you mean. ;)
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Hey! hi all,
I hope im nt off track lol! :), But sumfing came 2 mind wen I was readn all dez comments, was @ da start of my walk wit The LORD, az I was a gang member for ova 22yrz & was neva tort n e fing abowt GOD/ JESUS n ma whole up bringn, But had only heard. Well n e way wen I started 2 get 2 no more about GOD thru jus fellowshippn wit christians of many yearz but still had not read da Bible or even new n e of da Book names n it az in GENESIS, MATT etc, I really neva took much notice of each book But! was taking in alot about GOD n JESUS az in da History & I was bcummn more n more Amazed! @ our GOD az n gettn more knowledgable, well I rememba I started feeln very Emotional bcoz of pple/ friendz whom r neva told how Amazing our GOD is & wot HE has done 4 us (Created), & it was quite a strange feeln I was feeln, it was a new feeln 4 me, wel 2 feel sad 4 others :D, WelL back 2 wher Im headn lol! :D, I was in da Toilet :) 1 morning, I got dis name cum 2 my mind n which I had neva heard or seen eva b4 (HONESTLY), it was 'ECCLESIASTES', think about it how can U make up such a word?? :D lol!, so wen I came out (puzzled) my wife was sittn on da bed I askd her wots Ecclesiastes??, well she neva nu eitha, I sed 2 her it soundz Biblical 2 me, so she sed well herez da Bible lets hav a look, n WoW! in da contents ECCLESIASTES I was like blowen! away close 2 literally :D lol!, I sed wow! GODS tryna tell me sumfing, I believe HE wants me 2 read it, so I started readn it den BanG!! (ECCLESIATES 1:18) just jumped owt @ me ( I had heard previously, scripture jump out @ U, & wow! it sure did lol!), the scripture read "For in much wisdom is much grief. And he who increases knowledge increases sorrow". man! I was jus so speechlesS! n d@s a first believe me lol!, tears started rolln down my cheeks bcoz right @ d@ time I was gettn so much knowledge of the Word I was gettn very emotional ova my family my friendz whom dont no our FATHER @ all & da many d@ dont get 2 hear about our LORD n SAVIOR, man dis is sumfing I will rememba 4 da rest of my Life. wow!im sorry I fink it is a change of subject (slightly!) :D lol!. I supoSe it proves! well 2 mE n e wayZ GOD does put fingZ in2 ur head :). um!! back on subject I fink is da first Miracle JESUS did wit da wine, da pots made of clay r representive of man, da water inside was renewed 2 da Best!! Wine az We eventually Will, well d@s wot Ive got frm it, but probably in more detail in which I can put it. This I c az a problem 4 me, az I so wanna reply & comment on alot of fingZ but I just cant put it in2 words wen I try 2 write wot im finkn & Im nt very knowledgable on scripture eitha, well more on where 2 find dem, I sort of nO da scriptures jus dont no wher in The Bible 2 find dem, gezZ! man Im so sorry! alL I believe ive jus rambled!! on (d@s how uZ put it :)), well fanx! all I got d@ all owt evenually BLESSNZ! 2 U all, may GOD b withn ur Mind, Heart & Soul AlwayZ!!.
much muchLOVE!! Pera
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Pera, what a wonderful testimony. Thanks for sharing it with us. :)
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1 morning, I got dis name cum 2 my mind n which I had neva heard or seen eva b4 (HONESTLY), it was 'ECCLESIASTES', think about it how can U make up such a word?? Cheesy lol!, so wen I came out (puzzled) my wife was sittn on da bed I askd her wots Ecclesiastes??, well she neva nu eitha, I sed 2 her it soundz Biblical 2 me, so she sed well herez da Bible lets hav a look, n WoW! in da contents ECCLESIASTES I was like blowen! away close 2 literally Cheesy lol!, I sed wow! GODS tryna tell me sumfing, I believe HE wants me 2 read it, so I started readn it den BanG!! (ECCLESIATES 1:18) just jumped owt @ me ( I had heard previously, scripture jump out @ U, & wow! it sure did lol!), the scripture read "For in much wisdom is much grief. And he who increases knowledge increases sorrow". man! I was jus so speechlesS! n d@s a first believe me lol!, tears started rolln down my cheeks bcoz right @ d@ time I was gettn so much knowledge of the Word I was gettn very emotional ova my family my friendz whom dont no our FATHER @ all & da many d@ dont get 2 hear about our LORD n SAVIOR, man dis is sumfing I will rememba 4 da rest of my Life.
How cool is that!!!
Pera, thank you for sharing. It is music to my spirit to hear of how God has revealed himself to people, and your story is especially precious. For God to bring you to where you are now after being a gang member for 22 years....WOW, how awesome! You are a precious member of this forum, always edifying and bring joy to all the threads. May God continue to bless you mightily in spirit...
much luv and peace to ya,
Diana
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Hi Pera,
What a wonderful story!
Thank you for sharing it with us.
Iris
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wow!! Im speechlesS! :),
ThankS sO much 4 ur kind wordz, wow! isnt our GOD so AwesuM!?, dem words were really unxspected! str8uP!! lol! I thort I was guna b told 2 put it in da rite thread or sumfing like d@ :D, Hey! but GODBLESS! uZ & ur familieZ most abundently!, Id jus like 2 say d@ I Thank GOD so much 4 His plan He has installd 4 me, Az my life hasnt been so Happy like it is now for me my Wife & our children,as well as my immediate Family az a whole. Praise The LORD alwayZ. I wouldntve been speakn 2 n e of uz on dis Forum az it is a gr8! BlesSn! jus 2 know & speak wit such knowledgable, comforting, BlesSed! pple of GOD n JESUS mighty! prescious! amazing! glorius! name Amen & Amen.
much muchLOVE!! Pera
ps. uz! alL keep uP da Amazing! work uz do 4 GOD!, ill b stickin around az long as GOD WilLs :) :D.
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Pera,
I enjoyed reading your wonderful story!
And I especially enjoyed your comment on Jesus first miracle. I've read those Scriptures so many times, but never saw the parable of the pots of clay and the best wine! Thank you so much for bringing that spiritual meaning to my attention.
With Christian love,
Cindy :)
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Hi there Mrsnacks, One of my favorite parables is the one where Yeshua is saying..."though you did many things in my name, get away from me for I never knew you, those of you who did works of iniquity" (paraphrased)....I like this one simply b/c so many "christians" hang onto this one particular scripture in order to say that the bible is to be taken literally and that hell is literal. (I know, I used to do the same.) It is a VERY SCAREY scripture to the masses and one that they actually can remember and recite. Even though I have tried to explain to them that this parable is just that ....a parable/a made up story....it is only figurative...not literal. this is too much for them to take in so they will have to chew on it...unfortuntaely, they choke on it instead. The same goes for the scripture of Lazarus and the rich man...they are convinced that there is a physical heaven and a great physical chasm that one might go to immediately after they die if they aren't good, and from where they can physically SEE HELL. ??? 8) :o ;)
Hello Pera,
It is always good to read your posts ...I always sense your high enregy and strong love for others in your heart; that blesses me. Thank you! :D
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Hi again Snacks,
Well first off, Ray told us that the bible itself states it is allegoric in Gal 4: 24. I checked the Greek, and I concur: Greek = Allegoreo = allegory. Check it out as well on the online Greek English Interlinear. Voila!
My hat is off to Carol70 as I can relate to (paraphrasing) 'my eyes would bug out' and it was 'mind boggling' to have the understanding of Scriptural breakthroughs COME THROUGH! Yes, WOW! KA-POW!
Love your verse siting at Jer 33: 3!!! How RIGHT ON!!!
How a bit "spooky." WE KNOW HE WORKS ON AND ON [in us]!!! Amen!
I also very much relate to Diana's (paraphrased):
'I'm beginning to see the underlying theme of The Many Called/The Few Chosen... about EVERYWHERE' [in the Scriptures] ... more from Diana that is exquisite...
'[It's] a sort of secret code or or treasure map for the would-be elect.'
Right on dear woman. Heck it I know not where it comes from [HA! WINK WINK, NUDGE NUDGE], but IT COMES. Certainly not from me!
AND PRAISE GOD I AM FILLED WITH THE JOY FROM IT. GET READY BROTHERS AND SISTERS!!!
YAY AND THANKS TO BETH for your insight that 'that's the God I never saw and never knew (before), the God Who is in complete control.' Many thanks to you!
With love, Caregiver
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wow! BlesSnz!,
Thanx! Cindy & Susan ur words boil da Spirit withn me wit ur kind words, GOD is GOOD!.
muchLOVE!! Pera
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Pera, I had a similar experience that I forgot all about until I read your story.
I was 22 and my husband just died. I had to toddlers and I was a mess. I was barely staying alive. I fell asleep on a ride in the car and dreamed part of a scripture.
I dreamed, If you can't keep up with the footmen, how will you ever run with the horses?
I asked someone if they had ever heard of anything like that and they pointed me to the scripture, which I had never read. After reading it I knew that God had a lot of work to do on me to teach me to run with the horses. I was seeking God, but didn't even know at the time that I should be seeking truth. I was surrounded by older Christian women who had no knowledge of the truth. I also dreamed that they were decaying and were like walking dead people. I didn't understand for a long time what that meant. They could all speak in tongues and they all had the gift of prophecy according to them. I wanted so much to have as much of God as they had. I didn't know that it was all a lie. God has been good to me and protected me through the long journey.
Here is the scripture.
Jeremiah 12:4-6
4How long shall the land mourn, and the herbs of every field wither, for the wickedness of them that dwell therein? the beasts are consumed, and the birds; because they said, He shall not see our last end.
5If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?
6For even thy brethren, and the house of thy father, even they have dealt treacherously with thee; yea, they have called a multitude after thee: believe them not, though they speak fair words unto thee.
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yea! Praise The LORD M.G,
Yes its a moment ilL treasure 4 eons lol! :), GODBLESS!, I Pray alL is goin WelL 4 U nw MG n The mighty! name of JESUS CHRIST our LORD & our SAVIOR Amen.
muchLOVE!! Pera