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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: legoman on September 02, 2008, 06:47:59 PM

Title: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: legoman on September 02, 2008, 06:47:59 PM: Hi folks,

First day posting here.

I first came across Ray's articles about 8 months. Intially I was blown away. God finally made sense. I had sometimes wondered if God was so good, why would he let many be tortured in a fire forever. I couldn't resolve it, so I tended to just not think about it :)

Anyway when I first read Ray's teachings, I was so excited. Things were making sense. I initially tried to share it with my wife, but she didn't really get where I was coming from, and gave the standard responses like people go to hell because of free will, etc. So we had a pretty heartfelt conversation, but she didn't really believe me. The problem was I was still too new. I was in info-overload mode. I knew I had read something that explained all this, but I couldn't explain it to another person.

So I decided to take another tact, and slow down a bit. I spent the next 8 months reading Ray's articles, re-reading them, reading other sources (like tentmaker), reading the counter arguments (like at CARM and elsewhere), and coming to my own conclusions. My beliefs only got stronger. And I find on re-reading Ray's articles and closely examining the bible, it is all starting to make sense, and I am now getting to the point where I can explain this to another person and back up what I am saying.

So my next step was to get practice in debating this. I initially joined a non-christian relious forum that discussed Christianity a lot. That was a mistake. I tried posting about universalism there, but I either got the standard Christian answers, or a bunch of athiests saying "if there is no free will then there is no sin blah blah blah jesus was irrelevant then". It was difficult debating without a common base.

My purpose in all this was to refine my understanding and see if I could prove to myself what Ray was saying was true and what the bible says.

So the next plan was to go to a Christian forum and start debating. This is kindof where I'm at now. I joined bibleforums.com (I have the same userid over there) and have been debating why we don't have free will and what really happens at death. There is a hitch - "universalism" is not allowed to be debated in their main bible chat forum. Kind of laughable. I guess if they can't defend their position then I guess "no debate allowed" is the rule. Anyway I have been trying to raise contradictions that the traditional church teaches and see where the debate leads. I try to focus on the scriptures and keep the debate polite and respectable.

It has been a good learning experience for me and I'm getting good at finding passages, especially the ones Ray likes to quote :)

So that leads me to today. So far I've only really talked about this with my wife and a few people online. And no one has had the light bulb "go on" so to speak like it did for me. I'm wondering what other peoples experiences were in this regard? It seems so obvious to me now, that Jesus is the savior of all and God will's it. That's what the bible says and it couldn't be any clearer.

I would really like to share this all with my parents, specifically my Mom, but so far haven't had the courage. My mom is a staunch Christian, and she gave me my Christian convictions. While growing up we actually changed churches several times because my parents didn't think that particular church was teaching what the bible said. So I am hopeful my Mom will be open to this, but I need to have my foundation setup first.

Any encouraging words or stories would be appreciated :)

Thanks,
Legoman
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: Linny on September 02, 2008, 07:55:10 PM: Hi Legoman, Welcome. I am like you in that I like to debate. However, with age, I have learned that debating isn't always the thing God wants me to do.

I have taken to heart and used a scripture that Ray used about people asking me a question. Here are 3 translations...

1Pe 3:15

(ASV) but sanctify in your hearts Christ as Lord: being ready always to give answer to every man that asketh you a reason concerning the hope that is in you, yet with meekness and fear:

(CEV) Honor Christ and let him be the Lord of your life. Always be ready to give an answer when someone asks you about your hope.

(ESV) but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,

I have not spoken to anyone who is very deeply involved in the church UNLESS they have asked me a direct question that required me to come clean about something that is considered heresy to the church.

By doing this, the people who I have talked to have been open to what I had to say. And I don't go on and on unless I feel led to add to what they asked. For example, free will came up the other day with a friend. She would not be open to anything else I have learned but I did tell her how I felt about free will. Another friend brought up tithing to me and asked me a direct question. I gave her Ray's tithing paper after we spoke because she wanted to know more. There are only 3 others I have talked to about BT things and they were very interested.

My Brother in law is a pastor. It will take a direct nudge from the Lord before I will open my mouth to him. He has his doctorate in theology and is completely engulfed in Babylonian thinking. It would serve no purpose right now to speak up. I pray that God will open the door one day however.

So my advise to you is to wait on the Lord to let you know who is ready to hear it. Otherwise, don't throw your pearls to swine. ;)
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: carol v on September 02, 2008, 08:17:45 PM: Well, Lego, I wish I could be encouraging but in the 4 years I've been on this road, no one has listened yet. My boyfriend kind of sees the truth but then he puts the car in reverse if it means he can't be a Presbyterian. I've been told by a great friend that I'm talking to Satan on the internet and this was just in telling her that her little sister was asleep and not currently with Jesus. When I showed her the scriptures, she said I was twisting it. After many such experiences, I have given up.

Very few people are called to be teachers. Debating in forums is going to go nowhere. Usually, when we debate, we have a feeling of pride that we are right and they are wrong. That feeling of pride in ourselves itself will make the argument ineffective because God is going to burn the pride right out of us. It's absolutely true that only God can open eyes. You won't debate anyone to the truth.

You probably already know the following scriptures but they have helped me immensely.

1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Tit 3:10 A man that is a heretic after the first and second admonition reject;

So Peter lets me know that my job is to simply be ready with an answer IN MEEKNESS -- in other words, if God wants me to talk someone will ask me. I try to follow this and when I don't, I notice that I have no effect except to make myself look like a self-righteous know-it-all.

And Titus tells me what I said above -- that debating is foolish and vain and usually for my own pride. I'm not supposed to do it. And if I do happen to find myself in some kind of debate then one or two admonitons is all I am to give it.

I was so thrilled when I first learned these truths that I thought everyone would be SO happy to know them too. Uh-uh. If someone isn't asking a question then don't tell them more than a simple witness for why you have "the hope that is within you."

God wants us humble and if we aren't, well He will certainly burn it out. So always witness "in meekness and in fear."

And I have made every single mistake I just listed and still sometimes fall into it. A recent discussion with my ex-husband and his newest woman friend come to mind. I am as guilty of vain babblings as anyone but I do it much, much less. Those fires God sets aren't pleasant!

Carol
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: AK4 on September 02, 2008, 08:25:14 PM: Hey welcome Legoman,

I am with you on the overload thing. It was like WOW. I tried to discuss stuff with my brother and he would put a defense and all the answers would come to me at once but i would (and still do) get so overloaded with answers, that i couldnt answer at that time. Then later about 15 minutes after we stopped discussing, the answer was clear as day. My biggest problem i think i have is when i talk to someone about God, its like i get so excited and happy that my thoughts get jumbled up and it gets hard for me to focus and just answer whats at hand.

I have the problem sometimes where in trying to answer whatever it is at hand, i try not to give a complicated answer--basically i try to answer the question with the simpliest answer, but then realise "well jeez, they wont know what im talking about if they dont know this over here". And then i get a little scatterbrained.

The approach i use the most is i try to get a feel on what may be the most pertanent thing in someones mind (religion or whatever). For example there is this guy at work who thinks hes real smart so if figured i see what he thought on free will and of course he says we have free will. So i challenge him to tell me if he could tell me one thing he has ever done that didnt have a cause. He couldnt find anything and that "lured him in". I figure if you can prove one thing that may be somewhat important to that person theyll listen to you more.

I want to do the same thing in another forum, practise to see how to refute those who contradict but i dont know of any forums. Like you, i see the value it does in helping me learn. I learn alot from this forum and am very thankful for everyone here.

As for opening any eyes to God, thats a big fat zero. With Gods help i would say out of maybe 10 i have about 3 or 4 halves or quarter points. (So i might have 1) Their eyes may open to one thing, but not all. Somethings they just wont let go.

In Jesus,

Anthony
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: Akira329 on September 02, 2008, 08:38:18 PM: Hey Legoman,
Your going to find this road a difficult one!
We have to remember only God can drag them to these truths.
I'm convinced no amount of debate will open another man's eyes unless he's ready to receive it.
When their ready to receive it, they will ask you.

My close friend since high school was introduced to this site by me(only after he asked)
We talked a few times through email and he said he would give it some thought/reflect on the site and what I said.
I haven't heard from him since.

We grew up debating and fighting church doctrine all our lives,
I thought he would have been the most receptive friend but I'm not so sure.

My thoughts and advice would be to live your life according to the truth and believe me,
people will wonder why you live the way you do and be prepared to be called ever name in the book!!

Antaiwan
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: gmik on September 02, 2008, 09:23:06 PM: Unfortunately this has been a sobering thread, but oh so true.

It is God ONLY who can/will open any eyes. Thanks be to God for dragging us to himself! Nothing I did to deserve it for sure. For some reason, He is not dragging so many of our loved ones with us. Nothing they did or didn't. He is the potter and we the clay.

I have had the same or similar experiences w/ all of the above posts!! Now, I almost guard my truth as precious and they really better want to know before I get into it! Rays paper on reaching the lost really touched me and freed me of guilt. No, I don't need to preach to anyone. I need to learn this truth first and apply it in my life. Thats job 1 for me right now.

I don't know how you would search it but this forum is filled w/ posts about all our experiences and trials and victories.

As for me, Legoman, my son got me onto Ray's website, and then I basically read most of his stuff to my husband who got excited like me about it. My other two kids--nope, nada, can't even discuss or debate it anymore!

Many are called but few are chosen.
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: hillsbororiver on September 02, 2008, 09:35:39 PM: Same experience here! ;)

Gena mentioned Ray's article that really deals with this matter, and it is truly a burden lifter, I will paste a couple parts of it here;

GOD PREDETERMINES WHO GETS SAVED AND WHEN

"Now we are aware that God [Who? GOD. Men—ourselves? NO—GOD] is working all together for the good of those who are loving God who are called according to the purpose that, whom He foreknew, He designates beforehand, also, to be conformed to the image of His Son for Him to be Firstborn among many brethren. Now whom He designates beforehand, these He calls also, and whom He calls, these He justifies also; now whom He justifies, these He glorifies also" (Rom. 8:28-30, Concordant Literal New Testament).

It is ALL OF GOD. It is not wrong to tell others of your knowledge of God and His Word. It is not, however, your responsibility to "get people saved." Only God can do that.

It is GOD who does the calling:

"For ye see your calling brethren how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen [Who? ‘GOD’] the weak things of this world to confound the things which are mighty…" (I Cor. 1:26-27).

It is GOD who does the dragging:

"No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent Me, draw him [Gk: ‘drag him’]…" (John 6:44).

It is CHRIST Who chooses from those His Father dragged:

"Ye have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU…" (John 15:16).

Eventually this will include all mankind:

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me" (John 12:32).

And all will respond to God’s judgments and chastisements:

"That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of those in heaven, and those in earth, and those under the earth; And that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:10-11—See also Isa. 26:9b).

And let’s not forget:

"…no man CAN say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit" (I Cor. 12:3b).

Which is totally contrary to the horrible teachings of such men as John Hagee and Herbert W. Armstrong on this subject. Herbert Armstrong said: "Yes, every knee will bow, and if they don’t GOD WILL BREAK THEIR KNEES." Oh the unscriptural foolishness of carnal—minded men.

But do orthodox Christians believe that these Scriptures mean what they say? Of course not, and that is why they quote Phil. 2:12 "…work out your own salvation with fear and trembling," thinking that this takes Sovereignty away from God and places it back with man and his fabled "free will." Not so. They forget to read the next verse which tells us why we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling:

"For [‘for’ means ‘because’] it is GOD [Who? Man? NO! ‘GOD’] which works in you both TO WILL AND TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).

LIGHT AND SALT DON’T ARGUE OR MAKE NOISE

"Ye are the salt of the earth… Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid… Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matt. 5:1,14,16).

Salt does not make any noise, and light does not argue Scriptures. Neither salt nor light makes any sound whatsoever. Maybe there is a lesson in there.

Too many people learn a few truths of God and think that they are ready to take on the world. They usually start by trying to embarrass their Pastor with their new-gained knowledge. Usually they fall flat on their face on the very first try. It’s all about motivation. If your motivation is carnal, God will not back you. Yes, I know, all of you are saying: "But my motivation is to show them God’s truths." Yes, sure, I understand, but THEY DON’T WANT TO HEAR GOD’S TRUTHS, and you already know this, so what is your point? Leave them alone and let them taste your salt and see your light and admire your good works, and perchance they will even praise God for your new-found humility,

You will never argue anyone into accepting the truths of God’s Word. As salesmen are often taught: "You might win the argument, but loose the sale," so don’t argue. And this: "He who is persuaded against his will; is of the same opinion still."

I receive a lot of emails from people who beg me to come to their rescue because they are about to have a second session with their pastor or friend, but have failed miserably on the first go-round. Now they want me to give them the ammunition they need to do a slam-dunk on their second attempt to embarrass their pastor or friend. Give it up—that attitude is wrong. Such a carnal exhibition of prideful flesh is akin to someone looking for a street fight merely because he has just acquired a black belt in karate.

Read it all here;

http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm

Peace,

Joe
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: Jackie Lee on September 03, 2008, 12:30:37 AM: I am still fairly new to the truths God has revealed to me through Ray's teachings.
Most of people I have talked to get absolutely frantic when I say there is no freewill, I am still struggling with *No Freewill* and second guessing myself.
I absolutely know there isn't freewill but I struggle.
Then there is Hell funny thing most people like the idea of hell, it seems to be what keeps them going.
Most christians don't want to believe their love ones are dead until resurrection either.
I always get the quote from Paul absent from the body present with the Lord.
So no I haven't had any sucess at all and rarely talk about it unless asked directly.
I feel it is better to be mum on the subject, unless I know it is time to speak.
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: Triton on September 03, 2008, 12:35:22 AM: Hello Legoman,

I can so totally relate to what you are saying.

May I just add that I've at some point found myself between a rock and a hard place. Well, maybe still sometimes, or so it seems.

I've also read 'bibleforums' and found them lacking in truth, and especially lacking in honesty. Sadly. But I understand that it is God's will.

It is difficult to accept though, because it is so much the opposite from what we have been told since birth (free will)

I've come to understand the truth that God is actually God and that He does have a plan of bringing all and everything to Him, but each

one at his appointed time. The fact that I have not one person seeing it the way we see it here on the net, in my life where I live and

work, has at times made me 'doubt' the truth. And I've at times thought of going back and following orthodox church basically because

of the huge amount of people who doesn't see it the way we do.

But God hasn't led me back. He has kept taking me farther away from orthodox Christianity. He has used, what I believe, the Benny

Hinns and Todd Bentleys to show me the untruths of orthodox Christianity. How people can believe these false teachers and defend

them, when they are clearly saying things that are the opposite of the Bible, is beyond my understanding. But this just proves that we

don't have free will and that only God can open our eyes, and evidently that God doesn't open everyone's eyes until He decides to.

The size of orthodox Christianity is overwhelming. But, so was Goliath. And only David stood up against him. David's own people didn't.

They had not the faith. And we here know where faith comes from.

And just one more thing. Especially being married, with a spouse who still is not seeing the truths, makes it all just so much harder. I'm

sure that in itself is a test given to us from God. We should love our wives and our husbands. It's God's decision when and how He will

show them the truths. We can help, but if it's not His time for them, or any other friend, it just ain't gonna happen.

Be strong
Paul
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: lilitalienboi16 on September 03, 2008, 12:41:41 AM: Pretty unsuccsesful as it is God who does all the opening. I know Jesus didn't convert a single person while He was alive. I guess that mean's He didn't open a single person's eyes up to God's Truths while He was alive? If it does, than my chances are pretty slim, actualy non existant :P

God bless,

Alex
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: legoman on September 03, 2008, 02:11:52 AM: Thanks for all the replies so far. At least I don't feel alone in this matter :) Its kindof the response I expected.

As far as the debating goes, I don't think I'm doing it to be prideful, though I can see it does creep in there sometimes. I can totally see the point about not debating fools... learned that the first time when I was posting in the non-christian forum. I now see its totally true you must go into Babylon before you can come out of her. If you haven't even been in the church to begin with, none of what Ray is saying would make sense.

Anyway believe it or not I think I may be making minor progess over at bibleforums. Most of my discussions have been about free will. Most people don't buy into it, even though its easy to see from Romans 9 and the multitude of other verses (Ephesians 1:4, romans 11:32,etc). I have had a couple people respond with thoughtful questions, saying they hadn't seen these ideas before... so perhaps I am planting some seeds. But it does seem like most people are only trying to debate me and therefore justify free will in their own minds.

I totally agree that only God can draw people in, but he does use us to achieve his will. I can only hope that maybe I have planted some seeds, or "watered previous seeds" as someone put it.

But as I said the posting online is primarily a way for me to learn & verify what Ray is saying. It gives me a good devil's advocate. I look at it this way - I was deceived for the 30 years of my life I was going to church - I don't want to be deceived again. I want to make sure the truths revealed here are correct. And so far I'm convinced what Ray is saying is the truth. I now read what mainstream Christians say, and I realize the obvious flaws in their thinking. That's what frustrates me - if I figured this out, I need to share this, cause this is so uplifting and makes sense of everything. I mean one of the biggest arguments that athiests use is that God doesn't make sense because he condemns everyone to hell. But he really doesn't! But no atheist will believe it because the church says he does. So frustrating. LOL. I'm sure eventually I will be posting about universalism and I will get banned from their forum, and probably go down in a blaze, but perhaps I will have opened someone's eyes. But I have to remember it is only God's will that will open someone's eyes I guess.

Anyway the real reason for this post is not about me debating people in forums, but me opening the eyes of the people I love, especially my wife and my parents. I think I can explain it to my wife now, but we just never seem to get around to talking about these things. I think I have to set aside "serious discussion" time and actually go through it all with her.

Its even harder with my parents as they live about 2000 miles from us, so we only see them maybe 2-3 times a year. Its kind of hard for me to bring this up on the phone or via email. I'm such a chicken :) Hopefully I will discuss it a bit when I see them at thanksgiving. I'm worried how it will go though.

Sometimes I think I should just send my Mom a link to Ray's site saying "hey check this out" and that's it. Maybe let the site speak for itself. But I worry the lightbulb won't go on for her and she will think I'm crazy and have become a new-age "satanist" or something. My mom & Dad were pretty diehard - growing up in the 80s, they didn't want us playing D&D or anything like that. We were pretty committed to the church, and I got my convictions from her, which I thank her for. If the light bulb does go on for her, I could see her potentially breaking down and crying. It will be tough.

Thanks for listenening...

Kevin aka Legoman
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: legoman on September 03, 2008, 02:16:54 AM: Oops sorry I just realized the other forum I have been posting at is bibleforums.org, not bibleforums.com, just in case anyone wanted to check it out.

Please don't take this as a solicitation for that site. Just wanted to clarify.

Cheers,
Legoman
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: Dave in Tenn on September 03, 2008, 03:17:02 AM: One thing I have noticed (and hugely appreciated) is the myriad and individual ways God our Father has prepared each of us to recieve this truth. WE didn't all come to believe in the same way, so why do we assume that those we want to reach must come the same way? Maybe that's part of the reason for Anthony's 'flusteration'. Despite the fact that we here share many beliefs in common, God has guided our own paths, beliefs, experiences, mental, emotional, and spiritual framework to make it possible for us to recieve this Truth in His good time.

I've come to the conclusion that until the fruits of the Spirit are yeilded in ME to a greater extent than they are in my Church-going, devotional reading, 'trying' Christian loved ones, it would be folly for me to ask them to exchange what they have (by God's grace) for what I have (by God's grace). They are not the enemy to me. I am. The one I need to debate with the hardest is my own carnal flesh. Until that ******* is beat, I'm no better than Hagee trying to preach.
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: legoman on September 03, 2008, 03:30:01 AM: That is a good point Dave. I know I have a long way to go to rid myself of the "carnal mind". And I know I can't do it myself, I need to pray more, and allow God to work in me, and hope God will prepare me for what lies ahead.
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: Kent on September 03, 2008, 09:21:00 AM: I have better luck with non-christians than I do with those stuck in churchianity. Not that I can convert anyone, that is not my job, and I never get mad at them. Frustrated sometimes yes, but not mad.

I've had more civil conversations with satanists, wiccans, and muslims than I have ever had with "christians". "christians" will not engage in a civil and kind conversation. Try it, and you will see hate. Real hate. The satanists, wiccans, and muslims are kind and considerate by comparison. I also think that they are just more intelligent and are more open to the truth.
I know, there are exceptions to this, and I have dealt with them too...

When I "debate", I do not do it for the benefit of the person I am debating with. I do it for those others that overhear or read it. The person I am debating with will never be convinced, and I know that going in. It plants a seed, IMO, and it is up to God to grow that seed.

I am like Ray, in this regard. Not that I know as much as he does, but in the sense that I do not go on the defensive, but I go on the offensive without being offensive, if you know what I mean. Oh, the "christians" think I am being offensive, that is for sure :D but others know.

I really recommend Rays' audios too. You will learn a lot.

Edited to add:
You will not know, or will not always know, the effect you have on others. Dont let this discourage you.
We won't find that out, until Jesus tells us what effect we had on others. I just personally hope I didn't screw up too badly...
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: AK4 on September 03, 2008, 09:37:10 AM: Quote
They are not the enemy to me. I am. The one I need to debate with the hardest is my own carnal flesh. Until that ******* is beat, I'm no better than Hagee trying to preach.

Amen.

I dont know about most of you, but im seriously all alone where i live. There is noone i know around here i can talk with about God in any sense or form, so i guess any opportunity i get i "jump" on it. Which can be a bad thing. Without this forum here i would be completely all alone. So thats why i try to get a feel for someone first because where i live, it seems no one is even interested in talking about their God unless its Sunday morning or Wednesday bible study---And i wont go any church just to have "company". After reading this thread though i see the need to be careful about "jumping" into these conversations.

Flusterations--LOL, you have know idea :D

Anthony
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: legoman on September 03, 2008, 10:36:34 AM: For those that have tried to open eyes of their close family... what happened after? Especially if the light bulb did not go on so to speak, what did they think of you after? Did they just forget about it? Or did they now think of you as the black sheep with the "kooky new age" ideas?
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: kweli on September 03, 2008, 11:19:50 AM: Black sheep is the understatement of the century. It was more like "satanist", "devil worshipper", "son of perdition being mentioned in the bible", stuff like that. But you get used to it, the fact that these god-fearing, spirit-filled, charming people are actually your 'lost' family members.
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: Linny on September 03, 2008, 12:25:21 PM: Legoman,
Keep in mind that what we believe here is by definition, heresy.
Heresy is when you go against Church doctrine.

If you share these "heresies" with people who have not ears to hear, they will be like the Pharisees who screamed, "Blasphemer!"

Who needs that? ::) :-X
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: frecklegirl417 on September 03, 2008, 12:57:35 PM: To all,

I have tried with my mother and someone who says "I am a Pastor" which i posted in: " My big mouth got me in trouble". My mother believes still in the old Babylon way and won't budge an inch but we discuss it and keep right on discussing it. I just keep praying her eyes will open to the truth. IMO....All we can do is pray that God open's the eyes of those still left in Babylon. God already knows who will or won't come to the truth now, we just have to keep trying and maybe some will change, but that is not up to us.

With God's love and understanding,
Pam
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: legoman on September 03, 2008, 01:16:38 PM: Hi frecklegirl,

I'm glad you are still able to talk to your mother about it and keep discussing it, even though her eyes haven't opened yet. This gives me a bit of encouragment that I may be able to talk about this with my parents.

I went and reread Ray's article on "Winning souls" - good food for thought in there. I thought two these statements were very relevant:

'It is ALL OF GOD. It is not wrong to tell others of your knowledge of God and His Word. It is not, however, your responsibility to "get people saved." Only God can do that.'

'How to demonstrate your knowledge of the truth: Your good works and righteous character will pay dividends to others eventually—if not in this life, then in the Judgment.'

This gives me a bit of confidence that spreading the truth to others is not futile. What we do is God's will - but we can't expect to get the results we want - only God can do that. But perhaps the best way we can spread the truth is by demonstrating it in our own lives.

Anyway the thing that really opened my eyes was realizing that "eternal/forever" didn't really mean what I thought it did, and realizing it was a mistranslation. That was what did it for me. I think if I can somehow convey this to my Mom, she may have her eyes opened too. But the approach will be tricky.

I realize many people don't want to know the truth or have their eyes opened. I mean it really takes a certain type of person - look at the average public, most people don't read and are just glued to the TV. How many people would actually read through one of Ray's articles (let alone the bible) and actually get throught the whole thing without giving up? Ray is a good writer, but his articles are so long and so chock full of information, information that you should cross-check for yourself against the bible. Most people don't have the patience I believe, and are just happy to go along with their preconceived existence.

Cheers,
Legoman
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: mharrell08 on September 03, 2008, 01:19:21 PM: Quote from: legoman on September 03, 2008, 10:36:34 AM
For those that have tried to open eyes of their close family... what happened after? Especially if the light bulb did not go on so to speak, what did they think of you after? Did they just forget about it? Or did they now think of you as the black sheep with the "kooky new age" ideas?

I tried unsucessfully (of course) with my wife, mother, and sister who is married to a Baptist minister. I got the look like I had 3 eyes and the obligatory moment of silence. No, it is just a subject that the 3 of them completely ignore when talking to me. They will talk about ANYTHING else but the most important subject in the world, they refuse to discuss.

This is the Lord serving me 'humble pie'. And He is serving it in BIG scoopfuls. ;)

Thanks,

Marques
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: legoman on September 03, 2008, 01:24:31 PM: LOL Marques. I will let you know when I actually raise the subject with my family again. I may be eating my own 'humble pie' too.
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: Kat on September 03, 2008, 02:27:38 PM: Hi Kevin,

I really think you are a bit confused about the sovereignty of God. First you state, I totally agree that only God can draw people in, but he does use us to achieve his will.
The fact is the Elect are predetermined, either your family will be called in this age or they won't and there is nothing you can do about it :-\

Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
v.5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

When we fully get our minds wrapped around this we understand that God will choose those exactly when He planned. We need not worry or try to think of a way to best approach them with the truth.

Luke 21:14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer;
v. 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist.

But we are to be concentrating on "study to show yourself approved" (2Tim. 2:15). If we are a part of bringing a family member to the truth, that's great. But you do not need to plan how to do it and when is the best time to approach them and what to say and all that. It will go the way God has already decided it. We can't mess up or make God's plan better, it is what it is. I think our efforts should be directed towards our own salvation, God will take care of the rest.

Php 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

mercy, peace and love
Kat
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: legoman on September 03, 2008, 04:25:57 PM: Hi Kat,

I don't think I am as confused as you think I am :) at least I hope not...

First of all, I don't even know if I am one of the elect! I mean, I have had these truths revealed to me, but don't know if I can humble and purge myself enough to be able to enter the Kingdom of God. Now the way I wrote that sentence it looks like there is free will in there, but when I say "I can humble" and I can "purge" I really mean - is it God will's for me? Or is it not. I don't think anyone knows for sure if they are part of the elect.

Quote
We need not worry or try to think of a way to best approach them with the truth.

Here is how I see it. I 100% agree with you that God's elect are predetermined. Either my family will be called or they won't be called. I know I can't change that. God is 100% sovereign. I completely understand that. We cannot affect his will.

However, I don't know the future. Will my parents be called or not? I don't know - only God knows. Therefore I must try. How do I know that I won't be the instrument that reveals the truth to my parents? That could be God's plan to bring my parents into the elect. If I worry and plan about how to approach them, then it must have been God's will that I worry and plan how to approach them. Because we can only do God's will. Just like when Pharoah hardened his heart, it was God's will that Pharoah harden his heart.

Here are the possible outcomes:

1. I show the truth to my parents, discuss with them, show them Ray's papers etc. The light bulb goes on for them. Yay! It was God's will and my parents were predestined to know thow the truth!

2. I show the truth to my parents, discuss, etc. The light bulb doesn't go on. Oh well, I guess it wasn't predestined for them, but I was still predestined to reveal the truth to them. Yay! Its all part of God's will!

3. I don't reveal the truth to my parents for some reason (maybe I chicken out, maybe we don't get a chance to discuss it for whatever reason). So my parents never here the truth. Guess they weren't predestined to know the truth, and I wasn't predestined to talk to them about it. Yay! Its all part of God's will!

4. I don't reveal the truth etc. But somehow my parents have the truth revealed to them. Again I wasn't predestined to reveal the truth to them, but they were predestined to learn it! Yay again! It's God's will.

The tricky part is I don't know which outcome will happen, only God knows. However the common thing is, no matter which outcome actually happens, it must have been God's will, because that is the outcome that happened.

So I might as well try to reveal the truth to them. If it doesn't happen, it wasn't meant to be (it wasn't God's will).

I hope this makes sense to you. And its why I still believe its valid to share the truth with others. Its not that I'm trying to change God's sovereign plan. That is impossible. But you, me, Ray (obviously), and everyone is a part of God's plan. If you don't feel the need to worry about sharing these truths, then it must have been God's will for you not to feel the need to worry about sharing these truths. Everything we do is part of God's plan, right?

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: David on September 03, 2008, 05:03:42 PM: Legoman,

You'll come to see pretty quickly that trying to open people eyes to the truths you are seeing is a waste of your time, and actually resisting God.
When God decides you are ready to share what He has revealed to you through teachers, if indeed He does, then God will draw people to you, people God has chosen. Many are called, few are chosen. Don't expect to be opening the eyes of many people at all. We all feel that excitement to begin with and want to shout it from the rooftops that we've been freed from the vile doctrines of Babylon, but its a waste of time.
Speaking of my own experiences, once I got over the initial elation and wanting to share what I'd seen with the whole world, the people God sends my way have been very few, and of those that have asked questions one has stayed with the true Gospel. The others have gone right back to Babylon and rejected the truth. It's discouraging, but its going to happen time and time again.
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: Kat on September 03, 2008, 06:17:44 PM: Hi Kevin,

None of us know if we are of the Elect. We can know we are chosen, if our eyes are opened and we begin to see these truths. But we must be faithful to the end. Only at the actual election that takes place at the first resurrection do those know for sure they made it. There will be so very few, to be in the race at all is a great blessing I guess.

What I'm trying to say is you may indeed be the means by which some of your family has their eyes opened, but it does you no good to 'plan' how YOU will go about being His instrument. If and when it happens it will probably happen in a way you least expect it to.

It is a great joy to see a loved ones eyes opened, but this will happen for the majority in the LOF. We look on this as a terrible fate, but it's God's perfect plan. I really think it will only be a terrible experience for those with terrible sins. But it will be a difficult thing for anybody to endure, just as the struggles of the chosen is now.

I guess I look at it as God will do His work and I can be ready to serve or not, but I can not plan the course He takes.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: lilitalienboi16 on September 03, 2008, 06:21:14 PM: Quote from: legoman on September 03, 2008, 04:25:57 PM
Hi Kat,

I don't think I am as confused as you think I am :) at least I hope not...

First of all, I don't even know if I am one of the elect! I mean, I have had these truths revealed to me, but don't know if I can humble and purge myself enough to be able to enter the Kingdom of God. Now the way I wrote that sentence it looks like there is free will in there, but when I say "I can humble" and I can "purge" I really mean - is it God will's for me? Or is it not. I don't think anyone knows for sure if they are part of the elect.

Quote
We need not worry or try to think of a way to best approach them with the truth.

Here is how I see it. I 100% agree with you that God's elect are predetermined. Either my family will be called or they won't be called. I know I can't change that. God is 100% sovereign. I completely understand that. We cannot affect his will.

However, I don't know the future. Will my parents be called or not? I don't know - only God knows. Therefore I must try. How do I know that I won't be the instrument that reveals the truth to my parents? That could be God's plan to bring my parents into the elect. If I worry and plan about how to approach them, then it must have been God's will that I worry and plan how to approach them. Because we can only do God's will. Just like when Pharoah hardened his heart, it was God's will that Pharoah harden his heart.

Here are the possible outcomes:

1. I show the truth to my parents, discuss with them, show them Ray's papers etc. The light bulb goes on for them. Yay! It was God's will and my parents were predestined to know thow the truth!

2. I show the truth to my parents, discuss, etc. The light bulb doesn't go on. Oh well, I guess it wasn't predestined for them, but I was still predestined to reveal the truth to them. Yay! Its all part of God's will!

3. I don't reveal the truth to my parents for some reason (maybe I chicken out, maybe we don't get a chance to discuss it for whatever reason). So my parents never here the truth. Guess they weren't predestined to know the truth, and I wasn't predestined to talk to them about it. Yay! Its all part of God's will!

4. I don't reveal the truth etc. But somehow my parents have the truth revealed to them. Again I wasn't predestined to reveal the truth to them, but they were predestined to learn it! Yay again! It's God's will.

The tricky part is I don't know which outcome will happen, only God knows. However the common thing is, no matter which outcome actually happens, it must have been God's will, because that is the outcome that happened.

So I might as well try to reveal the truth to them. If it doesn't happen, it wasn't meant to be (it wasn't God's will).

I hope this makes sense to you. And its why I still believe its valid to share the truth with others. Its not that I'm trying to change God's sovereign plan. That is impossible. But you, me, Ray (obviously), and everyone is a part of God's plan. If you don't feel the need to worry about sharing these truths, then it must have been God's will for you not to feel the need to worry about sharing these truths. Everything we do is part of God's plan, right?

Cheers,
Kevin

1 Peter 3:15 "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"

Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Shoving it down someone's throat is a sure way to get them to look the otherway.

Perhaps we should take the Lord's advice on this and simply sanctify God in our hearts and when the time comes HE will bring someone to us, so that they may ask us the reason for our hope. THEN we will truly know, we are ready and equiped to give them the answer the Lord wants them to hear.

God bless,

Alex
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: legoman on September 03, 2008, 06:56:31 PM: Ok I get what you are all saying.

Don't worry I won't be shoving this down anyone's throats, least of all my parents. I hope I didn't give that impression, that is not what I am talking about here. I'm just talking about what the best way is to bring up this subject with my parents. I want to bring it up in a way that won't cause them to reject what I'm saying in less than 30 seconds.

Kat, when I say I "plan" to talk to my parents about this, I fully realize it may not go according to that plan, or it may not happen it all. To clarify,I'm planning on sharing the truth with them, but not planning on opening their eyes. LOL That gives me an image of me holding their eyelids open with toothpicks while they start at a giant screen of Ray's teachings... :) but even that wouldn't work...

I also fully realize it may not be God's plan for them to know ever.

Perhaps I need to share a bit of my situation. My parents live about 2000 miles from me, so I don't see them that often, and the phone calls don't usually have much deep conversation. But I would like to bring the topic up at some point, so I'm trying to figure out the best time and words to use.

We will be flying down at thanksgiving for a few days, so I may get a chance to talk about it then. But it could be awkward if we end up having a big fight on thanksgiving and then leaving. So that is my dilema. Maybe I will email them or phone them about it first. Or maybe I will wait for Christmas. Or maybe it will never happen. So I can see what you mean about not worrying about it too much - if it doesn't happen, then it doesn't happen.

From my perspective I have some big decisions coming up. I know we don't have free will, but I still have to make these decisions. Do I risk telling them and possibly spoiling our visit (given that we only see them about 3 times a year). Or maybe if I do tell them they will understand just as quickly as I did and it will be great to have family to talk to about this! See my dilema? I'm sure everyone here must have had similar thoughts. I don't want to create a rift in the family if possible.

Based on what everyone has said here I am preparing myself for them not to believe, but I can hope and pray. Any encouragment you can give would be helpful.

Cheers,
Legoman
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: Dave in Tenn on September 03, 2008, 07:33:46 PM: That's my faith concerning this, Alex. Thanks. :)

My situation isn't a lot different. I live much closer than 2000 miles, but I don't see them very often and don't want to 'disrupt' the few times we can be together.

My mother's brithday was the middle of last month. All I had shared with any of them was that my spiritual life had been renewed. I shared that with my older sister in an email after she asked 'how are you doing?' I said I was doing 'lopsided'...my natural life was a mess, but I'd never been so alive in my Spiritual life. She was pleased, but didn't ask me any more.

I don't know if she 'informed' my mother or younger sister...maybe yes, maybe no. But I went up to celebrate our mother's birthday. It was the first time in a long time I have felt exceeding joy in all their company. I am already the black sheep (cultural, tastes, politics, you name it) and have been out of church for a long time.

We really had a wonderful time, and I was so happy to be able to feel so much love for them. Conversation was natural and every so often, I had an oppurtunity to drop in a little 'thing'. Sometimes it was picked up on, but quietly dropped, sometimes it wasn't picked up on at all. I didn't press it. I know that they saw a change in me. I wasn't sullen, depressed, or cynical. I was happy.

That was enough for then. Maybe there will be more later, and if I have to take some lumps, then I'm willing to do it. But without that 'change' in me, it would have been pointless to bring up more or argue. Indeed, if there hadn't been a change in me, I would not be a believer at all!

I guess what I'm saying is, if you're not going to plan, then don't plan. Let what happens happen. Be guided by Love and the Spirit of Christ. If asked, answer. If confronted with 'preaching', then share. All I'd PLAN on is going and having a good time.
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: hillsbororiver on September 03, 2008, 07:52:04 PM: Hi Dave,

An excellent post!

Your yolk was light wasn't it? By that I mean just relaxing and being a positive influence, reflecting the love of Christ onto your family, a most powerful witness.

Don't worry, don't plan, don't confront, we are not all called (by God) to be teachers but we are all admonished to live by faith, if and when we are put in a situation where we must defend the source of our hope we have this promise.

Luk 12:11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues and unto magistrates and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:

Luk 12:12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

Amen!

Peace,

Joe
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: legoman on September 03, 2008, 10:31:36 PM: Yes that was a good post Dave. Probably good advice. Maybe I should just plan to go and have a good time. If an opportunity presents itself, then I could drop some hints. I too am in a situation where I don't want to disrupt my Mom's life. She has been a very positive influence on me, and is very caring and compassionate. She is also very strong in her Christian beliefs.

Amrhrasach, when you ask what exactly I wish to bring up to my parents: ideally it would be an intro to the truth, but I know it won't be that easy.

It might go something like this:

"Mom, did you know the word eternal has been mistranslated in the bible, and doesn't mean eternal at all, but is of limited duration."

Ideal response: "Wow that is amazing! That mean's there is no eternal hell and explains God really is the God of love!"

LOL :) We all know that won't happen. Although that's almost how it happened for me :) but I was reading Ray's paper which explained much of the details.

More likely the response would be something like this:

"Did you read that on the internet? You can't believe everything you read on the internet. There are a lot of false prophets and cults out there and you have to be careful what you let into your mind."

Probably a better route would be if I could get her to read one of Ray's articles. What do you think is Ray's best intro article? Maybe the Hagee letter? That's the one I read first.

Anyway, probably the worst case scenario is if we got into a big argument because Mom somehow thought I "lost the faith". It would be difficult. I don't think I would let it get to that. But I can see if my Mom did finally see the truth it would be a core shock to her. All her life she believed one thing, and then to find out it was a lie. It can be devastating, but the realization after is beautiful. She is in her 60s.

Anyone here older than 60? How did you handle the truth knowing your whole life you believed a lie?

Thinking on this more its maybe best I don't bring it up unless an opportunity presents itself.

Thanks for the comments so far, its a nice discussion. It is really just a relief for me to talk about it, as I haven't really said much to anybody about it since I found Ray's site at the beginning of this year.
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: musicman on September 03, 2008, 11:39:55 PM: I've taken part in a couple of blogs lately. Generally, I look for blogs with the keywords hell, freewill and eternal. Why do I do this? Simple!! I absolutelly despise the teaching of eternal torment. I mean, I hate it. And I don't care for the people who teach it. In my mind, I feel that I am exposing a devilish contradiction. Perhaps there is pride involved. However, my best pride destroyer is usually in my first or second post. Here's how I bait hell people.

"The Christian hell is an evil hoax. Go to bible-truths.com for explanation." Again, it depends on the title of and article in the blog. As soon as somebody asks me to explain, I politely cut and paste several scriptures prooving that all will be saved. I hate it when they reply with "God gave us a free will to blah, blah, blah". Because then I have to cut and paste about 20 scriptures that proove that we have no free will. That's after I waste time explaining what free will is and why we can't possibly have it. And how many times have people told me that I define free will incorectly? Well, it's alot.

So my pride destroyer is in admiting that I didn't find out all of this on my own. I credit Ray and bible-truths. This actually causes people to mock me even more. But so what. I want to be an instrument of the truth.

It's futile to debate these people. I can only hope that people will run across what I write and come to this web site.
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: Jackie Lee on September 04, 2008, 12:17:48 AM: Just today my plan was changed all it took was just one incident that changed everything.
It changed a lot of things for the better and gave me peace once again.
I am always amazed at how plans change, I had a will but a cause changed it all.
This is why I try and not stress knowing God's plan is so much better than mine.
I know God will furnish that person to open eyes in his time.
I no longer worry that I should get people to see, If someone is open to hear I speak otherwise I am mum.
Coming from a Baptist Pentacostal background I would say God has been working in my life. :D
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: Jody Edwards on September 04, 2008, 12:04:14 PM: My experience is similiar to yours except in my case, more time has past. The Lord sent me to bible-truths.com about 3 years ago to answer a specific prayer I had prayed three days previously. It took less than 24 hours for me to have my eyes opened to all of the new truths Ray was teaching. My wife believed the same day (praise the Lord!). But since that time, NO ONE that I shared these truths with would believe. I have studied and studied God's word since that time, so much so that I have a high level of confidence in my ability to teach others. And believe me I have tried, but to no avail. No one besides my wife has believed - no friends, no relatives, no past brothers or sisters, NO ONE. When God says it is He who opens eyes, He means it. No amount of logic, scriptural reasoning or hours & hours of explanations are going to give anyone the ability to believe. God has reserved that for Himself to give out as He desires. After nearly three years, I can trully see how precious and rare this great treasure is that the Lord has given us. I am in awe that the Lord chose me and her. We did nothing to deserve this great gift and if the Lord had not made me pray that prayer three years ago, I would still be just like all the other called Christians in Babylon. By the grace of God, He has made me who I am. I am eternally grateful for His mercy upon me and my wife for opening our eyes and giving us this great treasure. I will guard this treasure with my life, protect it and value it. I desperately want to share it with others but it is not mind to share, it is the Lord's and only He decides who will share in it. Don't be discouraged when others reject the truth when you show it to them. Spiritual treasure is only for those with spiritual eyes to see it and value it. Rejoice that you are blessed in the Lord's truth and pray for the Lord to use you in His service. But always remember, the knowledge we have been given is of no value unless we live that truth and produce fruit. Knowledge by itself is good but living out that truth in your own life is better. I encourage you to keep seeking the Lord in all that you do so as to grow and mature into Christ and become a good and faithful servant!
May the Lord continue to bless you!
Jody Edwards
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: AK4 on September 04, 2008, 12:43:51 PM: Hi everyone,

I was browsing another forum just to see what they were "debating" and its funny because rarely are they using scripture to do the talking for them. I believe this, at least for us today, is what was meant when Jesus said

Luk 12:11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues and unto magistrates and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:

Luk 12:12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

I agree with what you put Joe. We dont have to plan if we study and let the Word of God do the talking and teaching for us.
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: OBrenda on September 04, 2008, 01:27:58 PM: IMO,
Once we fully embrace, there is no hell, what is it we are trying to Save them From?
If there is no Freewill to thwart the will of God which is that all men will be Saved [Eventually]
I only need to Knowingly be led of God as an instrument of his will.
We must speak the truth, when called upon, and not be ashamed of it. [plant seeds were God leads]

I think our higher purpose is to learn to love, and esteem others higher than ourselves.
If you see a dirty smelly homeless person, and God speaks to you to buy him a sandwich with the last $5.00 you have til payday.
That will do more in the kingdom of God, than trying to explain with words...
All will be Saved in spite of their hateful heresy.

The many Christian Family members and friends that try to twist my Husband into becoming "Saved" as they understand it, do not care to realize that he is grieved by them objectifying him as a prize to obtain. He will not bow down to a God that will send descent people to hell, for not believing. He's smarter than I was in this. He is still on the fence, but may be closer to the truth than they are...He is in God's capable hands, and God Loves him more than I'm capable of, I don't lose any sleep over this...

I agree it's the intimacy in our relations that demonstrate the Love of Christ that has the power to Save men, not our intellects.

He is Good,
Brenda
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: legoman on September 04, 2008, 01:29:21 PM: Quote from: Amrhrasach on September 04, 2008, 01:21:24 PM
Legoman said: “Thinking on this more its maybe best I don't bring it up unless an opportunity presents itself.”

Probably another EFHutton moment, in my opinion Legoman.

And actually, that is exactly how I conduct my walk. But that’s just me.

It’s been my experience that the less said (that doesn’t mean not saying anything, but saying less, but forcefully and directly answered when questioned) has a tendency to provoke even further questions from one who is watching and wanting to know what’s in your heart, as far as belief is concerned.

Good point - saying less peaks the curiousity of the one who is listening and open. Now I just have to figure out how to drop some subtle hints when the opportunity arises.

Do people have examples like this of things they do in their lives? Like for example I think it was Dave who said he mentioned his physical life is blah but his spiritual life has been uplifted. Little things like that... did that prompt any curiousity Dave?

Kevin
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: psalmsinger on September 04, 2008, 10:55:04 PM: I am a total failure, but God is always successful and has perfect timing:)

barbara
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: Dave in Tenn on September 04, 2008, 11:51:31 PM: If my email comment prompted any enduring curiosity, I'm not aware of it. I'm guessing she thinks I might have changed from a badly fallen Baptist into a charismatic. ;D

Nothing was said at the Birthday that gave the slightest clue about the 'details' of the gospel, so I can't really help you there. The greatest wisdom in this thread, I think, is from poster after poster who have suggested filling up with the word of God so that if and when God prompts, you'll be ready. It takes faith to do that. There's nothing wrong with walking through the front door and saying, "Guess what I've been learning!" if that's the way God leads. If you can do that without sin, and have faith to trust God's wisdom in the outcome, then take that suggestion for what it's worth.

This is another good time in the thread to be reminded that this Gospel cannot and will not fail! "Success" is garunteed. The question becomes one of our own Spiritual growth and obedience. Nobody else is able to prepare you more than the Lord is.
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: Mike T on September 05, 2008, 06:09:40 AM: when people open their eyes at me

;D

I smile at them
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: Sirach on September 05, 2008, 06:14:00 AM: I am in several discussions with friends, elders and my pastor. I have talked with some of my friends, i copied Free Will part A onto a doc file and emailed it to them...this was about two weeks ago, but had no responce back yet.

I used to do street witnessing at large houseparties troughout Holland. Be cos i broke my collarbone i wasn't able to join last time, but there is a street witnessing action planned for coming Saturday / sunday night. Be cos it is impossible for me to witness the way i used too, i gave the guy who is kinda leading these witness actions a call earlier this week. I explained to him what happened to me, and we talked for about two hours. I could answer every question he asked me, for which i thank the Lord, and i got him very intrested...he actually called me back this week allready two times.

I had email conversations with my pastor and two elders, from which one is one of my best friends. The pastor and one of the elders do not want to communicate anymore...not that they are hostile to me...i think it is more that they do not have a clue what to do with all Scripture and questions which i sent them.

My very good friend, who is also an elder in the church will come over to me this evening. We probably will talk about what is happening, and i hope and pray that the Lord will open his eyes.

My wife is studying BT allready...and for that i am so greatfull to the Lord.

There is this song by Casting Crowns called "Love them like Jesus" This song allways brings tears in my eyes... like much does lately...Maybe to "Love them like Jesus" is the best way we can witness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuAxzEuzNGg

Your brother in Christ
Robin
Title: Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
Post by: hillsbororiver on September 05, 2008, 05:59:59 PM: Eze 3:24 Then the spirit entered into me, and set me upon my feet and spoke with me, and said unto me, Go, shut thyself within thine house.

Eze 3:25 But thou, O son of man, behold, they shall put bands upon thee, and shall bind thee with them, and thou shalt not go out among them:

Eze 3:26 And I will make thy tongue cleave to the roof of thy mouth, that thou shalt be dumb, and shalt not be to them a reprover: for they are a rebellious house.

Eze 3:27 But when I speak with thee, I will open thy mouth, and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; He that heareth, let him hear; and he that forbeareth, let him forbear: for they are a rebellious house.

Peace,

Joe