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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: hebrewroots98 on February 24, 2007, 02:17:34 AM
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Dear All,
I just wanted to share with you of a situation that took place today while I was teaching Science to some of the 'Christian'home schooled kiddos. This has got to be one of the saddest, most grevious situations that I have experienced in quite awhile. (I know that I should not be surprised by this, and I am not; I am just saddened beyond words...my heart is crying for this little innocent boy and his 7 yr. old brother as well.)
This little precious boy stated so matter-of factly that...'when people die they go to heaven to be with JESUS or to hell and burn there forever and forever.' I know that this is no new revelation, but to see this sweet child who is so eager about life and so briliiant and full of innocence to have words such as this to come out of his mouth, ...well, I was just heartbroken immediately upon hearing him say this. I was actually speechless (for once ;)), while my partner knew my views (of there being no hell), she immediately knew that this innocent childs' statement bothered me greatly, so she said to him..."well, God will sort it all out in heaven one day."
Everyone here knows that we have all come from this same mindset and how we too belived in hell at one time. There was a time when I would have thought NOTHING of this "going to hell to burn forever and ever" statement, infact, I would have thought the young boy to be so spiritually wise, as compared to the other kids his age, as well as his parents beign wise for teaching their kids this hard lesson to have to bear.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have never seen this woman as being anything but spiritual, but,now I have been made to see her in the opposite light...for who she really is...spiritually diabolical for misleading Gods' little children...AND THIS MAKES ME VERY ANGRY. Now I know that she is the most messed up spiritually compared to all of the other moms there! I have been given new eyes form God and I can finally see how she realy is; I am actually pretty amazed at just how we think that we know someone when really we were totally wrong. Interesting, but sad :'( to say the least.
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Yeah, Susan, God has brought us a long way in opening our eyes to the truth hasn't He! Praise God!
It is very sad that this little boy (or any child) would have to bear the burden of thinking that God would burn anyone in Hell forever. :'( This teaching brings torment to the mind. How can someone have joy and peace when people they love are burning in hell? And how can people worship a God of Love that would do such a thing? I am so thankful that I no longer have these thoughts or concerns.
I have become very intolerant of such teaching these days.
Peace to you!
~Paula
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I talked to some kids a couple of years ago and their parents took them to a Haunted Hell House on Halloween.
It was just awful hearing them tell about it.
Here is the link to the The Hell House Outreach Kit! It's horrible that they would do this to children.
http://www.godestiny.org/hell_house/HH_kitIssues.cfm
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Yes Sue
I know what you mean. I too saw only the bad dark side of this world when my eyes started to open. Then I was blessed to be comforted by the thought that eyes that are not open do not see, discern or comprehend. It was because my eyes were open that I could see the dark!
We learn in BT that Gods way is to give us weak hearts that He grows to become strong in Him and His Spirit. We grow through a process of circumstances that contrast between evil and good. We begin by liking and enjoying evil then if God chooses us then He dragges us to Christ.
From LOF Part 15 D
GOD’S PEOPLE ARE IN BABYLON
The Church of God is
"in the wilderness."
And this Church has a name:
"MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Rev. 12:6 & 17:5).
And just where do you suppose that God’s "chosen elect" come from? Why out of Babylon, of course:
"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4).
Maybe the biggest single aspect of "coming out of Babylon" is giving up the unscriptural "free will"/"free choice" idol of the heart. We've seen the sin for which, the King of Assyria was punished by God, the sin of "free self will." Believing that he, himself, had the power of will and choice to act independently of God’s foreordained intentions.
This little child has a head start. :D Trust God. He has the plans for this child beginning with a testimony of faith in error and trust in horror that has to go through the process of refinement into the understanding of faith in Christ and trust in God as and when God will reveal and show these little blind eyes and hardened heart His light and His truth. It will happen.
God has started His plan in this childs life in preparation perhaps for a contrast that can happen in big terms too because great is his blindness and great will be his joy when God shows him HIS truth!
We are assured also that God will wipe away all tears........... all will know the truth and all will be saved. Hope this cheers you up because you already know all this! 8)
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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<peeks in>
To All,
My precious one is 8 monthes old. He will know of hell and what it is, but he will no that there is NO hell. I wish for him to be aware of all the mythes and stuff out there. It is so nice to be a sponge right now, and hopefully when he gets old enough to learn some of this stuff, I will be able to remember it.
Susan,
Actually that is not surprising, again might I point out Lubbock? And all the churches? The churches have brainswashed many and will continue to do so, up until the time that things of this eon start to wrap up.
God is in control yet again.
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
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Yes, thank you for the reminders here. I tend to get lost in my emotions at times still, especially when I get caught off guard by hearing this kind of stuff. Thank God for HIS reconcilliation process. :)
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When our eyes get opened it also turns our lives totally around.
I used to love it when my classroom kids would mention church or God and I would tell my class that I was a Christian and went to church too.....I would skip over things in our textbooks that were evolution or things I didn't believe.
NOW I don't much mention anything. When a student says something I say Oh nice. It used to break my heart when a child would say he had never been to church. NOW, it doesn't hurt at all, I just let it go.
I used to be proud to use my Christianity in the classroom-flaunting the rules so to speak. I do let them know I believe and read the Bible. Thats about it.
Oh, I did show them a geode (my favorite rock), and say that people look at us and all they might see is the outside,lumpy and bumpy, but God sees the inside-then I show them the crystals!! OOOHHH they all love that lesson.
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That is beautiful G. ;D :D
How wonderful for children to be touched by His radience through us. What a privilage it is to be His light in this dark world.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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it is only by Gods grace that we have eyes to see. my heart aches because my very own children still believe the majority of mankind will burn forever. they will teach my grand children that this right just as i taught them when they were small. i respect their right to believe as God seems fit but it still saddens me none the less
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Let me take this opportunity to express my own experiences as a homeschooling mom. First of all, not all "Christian" (and I put that in quotes because I no longer call myself "Christian" but a member of the Body of Christ, seeing as how "Christians" believe a lot of heresy [though they don't realize that of course...God hasn't told them yet]...anyway, not all "Christian" homeschoolers are as avid about teaching their kids that most of the worlds people for all time will fry in hell forever. I am AMAZED this mother did this to a 5 year old! A 12 year old? No, but a 5 year old, definitely!
Anyway, it is probably true that, as a homeschooling "Christian" mom, I did claim that all the world's unbelievers for all time will go to hell for a very long time if not forever or eternity, at some point. I don't really think, though, that I belabored the point or emphasized it or made my two kids (one's at A & M Galveston now...a "Sea Aggie"... and the other is in 9th Grade) feel good about it. As a matter of fact, I have NEVER used a homeschooling Bible Curriculum knowing that most of these have a denominational point of view (usually Southern Baptist, a denomination I have always loathed for their pious self-righteousness and prohibitionist nonsense..yes, I have a beer or glass of wine every now and then). But then, when I was teaching my son algebra and higher level math (I am a certified secondary math teacher) and discussed division by zero or the tangent of a 90 degree angle, thus discussing the construct called "infinity" and that "eternity", which is a time construct we have invented to explain infinity in terms of time but which in fact does not exist in time (it does exist in God, however), we have reached conclusions that "eternity" exists outside of time (which is a mathematical way of saying there is no such thing as "hell for eternity" because the only way to exist in eternty is WITH GOD...no one who is "separated" from God [as one would be in hell] can exist in eternity, thus logically hell for eternity does not exist, just as division by zero is "undefined" meaning it does not exist (and anyway, how does one divide by "nothing"?)
What is unfortunate about homeschooling in some "Christian" homes is not only parents teaching very young children hateful things like million in hell forever, it is that they don't realize the Bible Curriculums are full of heresies. Further, many parents in my area (far west Texas, where there are lots of fundamentalist or charismatic churches) insist that their children go to likeminded "Christian" colleges where all those heresies are reinforced, along with the notion that they are to somehow re-make the USA into some kind of dominionist theocracy ("A Shining City on the Hill"-mentality). Bob Jones University--where several homeschooled kids I know are attending college--is paramount in this. However, this is also changing as homeschoolers are now not only accepted to mainline universities but are actively encouraged to apply there. I was thrilled when my son was accepted into Texas A & M without the usual high school diploma...another girl my son's age and grade is now going to Texas Tech! I am also pleased to announce my son..unlike many of his public schooled friends in college...is doing very well, a 3.25 GPA [in a tough school, too!].
So I am all for homeschooling! We need to pray for these kids though, because many parents inadvertantly are setting their kids up to either be one of those kids in "Jesus Camp" with that mentality, or are setting them up to reject Christ completely...yes, I know this is God's Will. But I'll say one thing: as someone who so hated Catholic School that I was an atheist for several years and God literally had to drag me back, and has dragged me out of Babylon, it ain't a pretty picture!--Deb aka snorky
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This child is simply being brainwashed by Babylon and its blind guides. This deception is world wide and will continue for God's purpose. "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie," IIThess. 2:11. We all believed that lie until God opened our eyes. We need to watch and pray that God will keep our eyes open to the truth; if not the mirror or glass that we look at will become dirty so we can no longer see. Lord have mercy on us.
Dwight
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Hi Susan,
I know you feel thankful and blessed to be able
to teach your own son the truth according to the
scriptures and that ALL will be saved.
Iris
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Amen Dwight
It is mindful to always recall and be watchful!
Isaiah 57 : 15 Thus says the high and lofty One ……He Whose Name is Holy: I dwell in the High and Holy Place, but with him also who is of a thoroughly penitent and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble and to revive the heart of the thoroughly penitent bruised with sorrow for sin….
Psalms 51 : 6 Behold, You desire truth in the inner being; make me therefore to know wisdom in my inmost heart.
Thank you for your exhortation and reminder….
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Yes, all Ican do is pray that God keeps my eyes open and that if it is His will to then open up these prescious ones' eyes as well. I hope that I am not sounding arrogant to the fact that God has opened my eyes up; God forbid! I am praying for the time to come as to when I can plant that seed of the 'no hell' reality in their minds!
yes Arcturus, Psalms 51:6 has always been my prayer too!
Yes, Iris, it is awesome to teach Daniel of the truth about hell. He wiil hear an adult say something about hell, and he will just glance over a t me with this all-knowing type of wisdom on his face; he will tell me how silly it sounds when he hears an adult say things like this. He too realizes that God has to show them or they won't know it.
Yes, Dwight, brainwashed and then a strong delusion it is on these generations of families! Thank God that we have given up the lie!
Hey SNORKEY, WHERE IN FAR WEST TEXAS ARE YOU? I TOO LIVE IN FAR WEST TEXAS, AS DOES ANNE! WE HOMESCHOOL AS WELL! YOU SAID IT WELL WHEN YOU SAID THAT THESE PARENTS ARE SETTING UP THEIR CHILDREN TO BE IN 'JESUS CAMP MENTALITY' YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD.
Great 'God/crystals' lessons for the kiddos Gena!
Yes, Anne, we are the BUCKLE OF THE BIBLE BELT! TONS OF CHURCHES IN THIS AREA.
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Snorky,
Good point in mathematics. <WEG> Redefine the number system and one can divide by zero. I am wondering it this can have even deeper implicaitons. Have you heard of the Set of Aleph Null?
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
Mathematics RULES!!!!
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Hello,
It is important to atleast understand WERE this deception has come from,
My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away [on] the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace [Jer 50:6
Although sad, God has his reasons for this delusion, it is in fact that all may be saved, and come unto the knowledge of truth. We must all be deceived for a season, We must all leave our first love, We must all have this contrast, if not what will we be saved from? God is not even trying to renew all in this church age, only a few chosen, is God moving to see these truths.
Peace
Chris R
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Thank you Chris R
It is wisdom in the inmost heart....to know....to comprehend....to come to the knowledge of God's ways... and to percieve the purpose of God is that : We must all be deceived for a season, We must all leave our first love, We must all have this contrast, ...if not what will we be saved from?
It is good to see focus like this. It helps.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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What a terrible thing to do to your child[ren]. If it were up to me, I'd arrest every parent and every pastor/priest or sunday school teacher who taught children that, for child abuse. That's how intolerant I've become of that 'hell doctrine'.
Seriously, movies and video games have R ratings for things that are inappropriate for children, and people who sell or rent an R rated or XXX rated movie to a minor are thrown in jail so why not those who teach their children the 'hell doctrine' which is definitely just as inappropriate, if not even more so.
I'm not kidding eighter, they're lucky I'm not in power. ;D
Just my two cents,
Sorin
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Even though God has pulled me out and has opend my eyes tith His wisdom, and even though I understand that HE must open their eyes and that most's eyes will never be opened in this life, and that it is the CHURCH LEADERS/ELDERS/SPIRITUAL COVERING WHOM HAVE GONE ASTRAY IN TEACHING THESE FALSEHOODS, IT STILL SADDENS ME WHEN I HEAR A 5 YO. VOICE THOSE WORDS. Thank you all for you're valuable input, I need you all so much :D
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Indeed a sad story... The doctrine of hell-fire has already left it's mark on that child...
I saw the movie "Jesus Camp" last week. I was devastated seeing those kids being abused and brainwashed...
I had to read some passages from Ray's work after watching that movie, just to compensate!
Paul's recommendation:
Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice. Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. (Php 4:4-8 KJV)
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Thank you Chris R
It is wisdom in the inmost heart....to know....to comprehend....to come to the knowledge of God's ways... and to percieve the purpose of God is that : We must all be deceived for a season, We must all leave our first love, We must all have this contrast, ...if not what will we be saved from?
This reminds me of something the Amish do. Around age 16-18, they participate in "rumschpringe," where they leave home and are encouraged to try every and any sin possible. That way, they have something from which to be be "saved" and much for which to be forgiven. After all, those who are forgiven much will love God more than those who have been forgiven little (Luke 7:47). The more they sin, the more they will love God.
Sandy
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I sure didn't realize that the Amish sect does this to their pre-adult kids! I would think that talking to them and teaching them and showing them others that are living in sin would be enough for them to see and to learn from, but not by helping them to indulge in their fleshly lusts; b/c then the blood wil be on the parents hands since they set up their kids to do those sinful things! Then the parents would need to repent. I think they can learn enough of how beastly they (we) really are on a daily basis by not even trying to sin, as it happens naturally...that is something for them to be able to repent for instead of going out and intentionally sinning. Just my thoughts on it. ;)
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You're right.
Also, if you'd ask them what would happen to their children if they died during rumspringa, they'll tell you that they'd go to hell. Of course, we know that's not true, but for those who believe it, what a dangerous setup!
For more info on rumspringa, go to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa
Sandy
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Sandy, I read that article, now that is something else! I had never heardof it, thaks for sharing, I may rent the video if it is out. (There is actually a place called INTERCOURSE, PENNSYLVANIA?? ::) Oh boy! When I lived in Ohio, there were huge land mass areas of these Amish near where we lived; I wonder if the girl that was in the Military was from here...she died her hair black after cutting it; wore skin tight clothing; hung out with the wrong crowd and went nuts with partying. She had never had ele thctricity so the lights just set her off, she loved it! She had no reality of what life in the real world was like. She was too gullable and the guys took advantage of her; she ended up pregnant...even though she was married to a senior citazen that her family had pre arranged for her ???...how cruel to do this to your kids and to not tell your kids of what is in the real world and then let them fall flat on their faces like this!
([tr][/tr]Sorry for the tangint.)
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hah hah hah,
Intercourse Pens. Now that's pretty funny. And on that note, I shall leave. Now puns are very good, but that's pushing it a little to far <shakes head and smiles>
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
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Sandy, I read that article, now that is something else! I had never heardof it, thaks for sharing, I may rent the video if it is out. (There is actually a place called INTERCOURSE, PENNSYLVANIA?? ::) Oh boy! When I lived in Ohio, there were huge land mass areas of these Amish near where we lived; I wonder if the girl that was in the Military was from here...she died her hair black after cutting it; wore skin tight clothing; hung out with the wrong crowd and went nuts with partying. She had never had ele thctricity so the lights just set her off, she loved it! She had no reality of what life in the real world was like. She was too gullable and the guys took advantage of her; she ended up pregnant...even though she was married to a senior citazen that her family had pre arranged for her ??? ...how cruel to do this to your kids and to not tell your kids of what is in the real world and then let them fall flat on their faces like this!
([tr][/tr]Sorry for the tangint.)
That's terrible! >:(
Stupid Amish people!
Pre-arranging a marriage for your daughter with a senior citizen [of all people] is worse than sending your kids out on a "Rumspringa" in my not so humble opinion.
I can't believe she didn't run away from those freakazoids. Truth definitely is stranger than fiction.