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=> Testimonies / Prayer Requests / Fellowship => Topic started by: Roy Coates on June 23, 2009, 12:58:19 PM
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I need prayer and some proof reading. I have been talking with the pastor about these things but have not be able to actually say "I quit" yet. Until this morning when I was invited to a meeting to hear a speaker. I looked into it and saw the same thing I see with the others, not much good. I was so inspired to write the pastor I wrote the attached letter and would like others to look at it be fore I send it.
.....E,
I have spent the last couple of hours looking at Sergio's information on the web, as I have made it a custom of mine to look into those you speak of or invite to speak.
I am not qualified to teach you or any body else at the local church. It isn't about what I see or don't see. Is is about honoring the Father and His son Jesus.
Just as I was called to you and your ministry by the Father, I am being called away. Not to a building, denomination or christian religion, But to Him. I am not sure of my purpose yet as I am sure it will be reveled in His time.
I need to pass the prayer service onto the next person and will continue until that position is filled. I will be honored to continue to care for the grounds as long as you will allow.
The reasons are many and very difficult to put in words. I love the people and you too. I just don't believe orthodoxy christainity is not filled or fueled with faulty translations, misinterpretations, and doctrines of men. Infallible Scripture is true statement, infallible bible is false. This all started as soon as Jesus left and as grown like a weed since.
The devil told the lie in the garden "you shall not surely die" and orthodoxy believes that lie today, that the soul is immortal. Orthodoxy teaches hat we circumvent judgment at death and either go to heaven or hell instantly. Paul told us that our only hope was for the resurrection of the dead. But with orthodoxy we don't need to hope for that resurrection. True that we will put on immortality, not until the resurrection of the dead and judgment day.
It pains me to write this, I am not sure why. I believe the Father is in control of everything or sovereign. I have prayed and studied and prayed some more for guidance in the truth. I question everything, I understand a little. It is not you or Sergio or Dave or Varner etc.... All are good men walking in the direction called to walk in. Either I have been sent "a strong delusion" or you have. Either way God the Father has sent it. So I embrace it as His will and His way. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Phil 2:13 (KJV)
Peace,
Roy
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Roy I know from some of your previous posts that God has been working on you for a while to this end. I pray for you! NB
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Roy,
What a wonderful letter. At least through these eyes. My prayer is for your continued strength in the Lord, in His Word, and in His Will for you.
Remember that they will not "buy" your truth as you don't bare their "mark" and do not be discouraged.
Above all...Love.
Larissa
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NB. True it is a work in progress, I have been waiting on the Lord, this morning I was inspired to write that and send it. Thanks for the input, thoughts and prayers.
Larissa. Thanks for your kind words, thought and prayers too. It is liberating all ready.
Peace
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Roy that is an absolutely beautiful letter! No one should be offended by it, but I would think love and respect you all the more! You are a very gracious person, a God person! ;D
Kathy :D
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I agree with Kathy , Roy
God Bless
Marlene
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Roy,
I couldn't respond to you on FB but wanted to here. I have such sympathy for those of you who have had to come out of Babylon leaving behind loved ones.
I realize God spared us this as He moved us away from our closest friends (that we still have OUTSIDE of church) into a church where He did not allow us to make any friends. Believe me we tried. But we spent 3 years in a church becoming more and more disillusioned and hurt. So when He took us to BT, we were THRILLED to leave-no pain.
All of us here are on a different path and each experience He puts us through is for an individual purpose to grow us in His perfect way.
I am sorry for this current trial you are in but am confident that it will bring you closer to Him and be a blessing to you in the end.
Bless you, Lin
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Hi Roy,
I was in pentecostal churches on and off for about 10yrs, its wasn't hard for me to turn my back on it and walk away, but like Linny said we are all on a different paths, I also didn't make many friends, and tried everything to fit in.
I feel for you bother you've obviously have strong relationships in that church (please correct me if wrong on the point).
I feel inspired by your letter, and hope they are too!
Bless you
Matt
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Great thread. Hope it helps you Roy. God Bless you!!!
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Thanks all for the support, input and prayer. The pastor does want me to honor God no matter what, even if he thinks I am wrong. He as asked some questions I feel to gain an understanding. My email crashed after I typed 2 or 3 pages of responses, Hmmm God at work? of coarse it is God at work. I don't want to or think I can change him or the church for that matter. I do want to help him understand. Worst thing of this all is my wife as suddenly claimed the importance of the family going to church. I told her I can do it for the family and for her. She cant attend due to her work. Her mother attends a catholic church. She allows our daughter(my step daughter) to attend church with her grandma in exchange for attending with me. I have to force my one son still at home to attend and so I don't make him go. I don't she the logic in the "family needs to attend" when the family doesn't attend now. Social gathering is important, true enough. My plan was to take our daughter on a walk in the park, hunting and fishing while we talk about God and or to God. But I will honor my wife too. She is just freaked out cause it seems so foreign at the time. God has control, His will not mine will be done
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You letter is so beautiful full of kindness and love. It is an inspiration to me as I have a very good friend wanting to know why I left the church and that it is scripturally wrong to do so. Even though I haven't been in ministry for quite awhile, your (God's) words say it just right.
As someone else stated on here, we are all on unique paths to Father God. Mine was being sick so often kept me out of church, sometimes for years. I only had the Father and His Son Jesus to depend on... to grow spiritually. I didn't make hardly any friends there either. I tried but it just didn't happen. When out sick the last time, I wrote them looking for a way to attend church but it fell on deaf ears. This is God's doing. Ironically, when I finally find away to go to church and was in the process of making friends, Daddy God pulls me out. ;)
I am glad to hear that your pastor wants you to honor God, even if he thinks you are wrong. I will be praying that your family will be drawn to God into His will. His will be done.
God bless you,
Bunni
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Hi Roy,
It was inspiring to see you follow through in the faith of your convictions, yes you have received another blow by your wife's reaction and I won't suggest you make this a point of conflict between you and her at this time. The one thing I will suggest is that you witness to your children the "really Good News" of Christ and open their hearts to the Love and Mercy that is the essence of our God.
Perhaps when they have questions in regard to how the message of the church differs from what the bible really teaches you could direct their questions to your wife, from that point perhaps you all can have a home bible study to sort it all out.
You have entered a trial of faith and perseverance, you and your family are in my prayers.
Peace,
Joe
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Thanks again for all the beautiful repplies. The issue with my wife got worked out last night, at least for now. She was "appalled that the family's spiritual leader would do such a thing" I countered with, "you feel and say that I am the spiritual leader then why don't you let me lead?" Well her response was lead...but...(then some words of caution). In a way Joe I had already done what you suggested. All is well with my pastor. He sends some questions to my cell phone, One of today's was an attempt to use "forsakesake not assembling yourselves" and told me that my leaving the church was not of God if I left and did not join another. I was waiting for that as I have heard him teach on the subject. I told him that I could not respond via text messaging. Later when I got home I cut and pasted one of Ray's studies to an email. I am fighting back the "what will every body think" feelings and pressing on. God is right here, right now and always guiding me, you and them. Problem is they just don't know it. Peace and Grace to all, Roy
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Roy,
I pray that God continues to give you strength and encouragement.
Larissa
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Hi Roy,
It's a good letter and obviously prayerfully written. Your heartfelt feelings are apparent.
The only comment I would make is that I feel your letter should be sent, or at least read out to the whole church.
My prayer is that the Lord would show you soon where He wants you to be, as a family.
Geoff
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Hi Roy,
Leaving the church can be complicated, especially when we have family who are habitual church goers. They only know what they have been taught and they as I once did, they believe that church is where you go to worship and show reverence to God. I think that your pastor was only making a veiled attempt to say the right thing when he said you should honor God no matter what. We know "forsake not assembling yourselves" means with people of like mind, so you really shouldn't be at church then. I believe your pastor is just trying to get enough info from you to prove you wrong. Discussing this with him will probably go down hill fast, as he has far too much to lose to believe this.
From what I've seen it seems that these church people will write you off pretty quick, once you stop attending. I think your wife's (and everybody else's) reaction is because she can not possibly believe you are right and all the churches are wrong and she thinks the church is where you have to go to worship. She can't understand you are not leaving Christ, but this organized (miss-organized) religion. You will just have to use a lot of tact with her, which it seems like you are. I will pray for your family.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Hi Roy,
Leaving the church can be complicated, especially when we have family who are habitual church goers. They only know what they have been taught and they as I once did, they believe that church is where you go to worship and show reverence to God. I think that your pastor was only making a veiled attempt to say the right thing when he said you should honor God no matter what. We know "forsake not assembling yourselves" means with people of like mind, so you really shouldn't be at church then. I believe your pastor is just trying to get enough info from you to prove you wrong. Discussing this with him will probably go down hill fast, as he has far too much to lose to believe this.
From what I've seen it seems that these church people will write you off pretty quick,
once you stop attending. I think your wife's (and everybody else's) reaction is because she can not possibly believe you are right and all the churches are wrong and she thinks the church is where you have to go to worship. She can't understand you are not leaving Christ, but this organized (miss-organized) religion. You will just have to use a lot of tact with her, which it seems like you are. I will pray for your family.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Kat,your quote kind of reminded me of Rays paper on What Is The Gospel Of The Kingdom? Here is an excerpt.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=49ik9j5ouaeln6kjqep2vv9m31&topic=6142.0
WORKS TO BE SEEN OF MEN
But I want to zero in on one thing though. Just this one requirement for entering the kingdom, just one. Of course if you qualify in one area perfectly, it would cover other areas. But I want to just cover one area, because it was specifically mentioned several times in connection with, either being in the kingdom or not being in the kingdom. Just one requirement.
Mar 1:15 …repent ye, and believe in the gospel.
Mat 5:20 …except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Your righteousness must FAR exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees. But there is one giant sin that will keep you out. There is one thing that Jesus said about the Pharisees, something about them, the way they always were, they way they operated, the way they did and thought and so on, that He just berated.
Mat 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms (your good deeds - works) before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
v. 2 Therefore when you do your alms, sound not a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have received their reward.
Do not do good to show off, do not do good to be seen of men, do not do good to have your flesh glorified - puffed up - pumped up. God says that you will have no reward, that is your reward.
Let me tell you honestly. I don’t want materialism. It’s not that I wouldn’t enjoy having it or I can’t appreciate it or any of those things. I do and I can and I probably would, but I don’t WANT it. Because I fear that it would interfere with my spiritual growth and I could even be turned away. Now I wouldn’t have said that twenty years ago, no. I would have said bring it on Lord. I don’t want it now, I don’t want it anymore, I don’t want it. I do want to wear nice clean clothes, but I don’t need to have a ton of them and they don’t need to be the Reitz Carlton, designer everything, it just doesn’t have to be.
So don’t do your deeds to be seen of men, because then you have your reward.
Now in Matt. 23, He makes a very profound statement. He mentions this over and over. But here He says something a little stronger yet.
Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitudes and to his disciples,
v. 2 saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses seat:
v. 3 all things therefore whatsoever they bid you, these do and observe: but do not ye after their works; for they say, and do not.
v. 4 Yea, they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger.
v. 5 But ALL their works (how many of their good deeds? ALL) they do to be seen of men, They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments.
v. 6 They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues,
v. 7 greetings in the marketplaces (to be seen of men),
All their works, I don’t think Christ was lying… all their works.
Read chapter 3 and tell me that one of these people are going to be in the kingdom of God. Some of the works could be good works, it doesn’t matter. If you are doing it to be seen of men, if you are putting back the flesh that you was suppose to have cut off. If you are struggling to come back to the surface of that baptism in Jesus Christ and you say I’ve been down there long enough, I want to come up and dry off, I want some of this flesh back.
Peace...Mark
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Kudos to you Roy, seems you have taken that first BIG step by sending that letter and obeying our Lords words.
Exo 8:21 Else, if thou wilt not let my people go, behold, I will send swarms of flies upon thee, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people, and into thy houses: and the houses of the Egyptians shall be full of swarms of flies, and also the ground whereon they are.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
In no way to try and scare you, but to encourage you. Once again, good job my brother!
Praying for your strength, courage and faith.
Peace & Love, G.Driggs
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Roy, you are an inspiration.:-) Well, God working in you that is.:-) I have many fears about talking to my husband about all of this, and still have yet to even try. But I am happy for you-even though this is the narrow road, and bumpy too. But alas, God is in control. Thank you for sharing all of this with us!
Beth
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Geoff, letter was sent and reading it to the church is a great idea I will consider.
Kat, you hit the nail on the head. As our talks continue I see exactly what you thought may be happening. A great man, but blinded noon the less.
Everybody, thanks for the thoughts, prayers and feedback it is very helpful.
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My opinion only, I would absolutely not read the letter in front of the church. It would just be viewed as a kiss-off. Anyone who cares why you leave will make a effort to contact you, and you can then tell them the reason at that time. But don't expect a line at your door.
Craig
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Thanks Craig, I came to that conclusion as well. Two have already contacted me. I haven't had a chance to discuss my leaving yet as I have been out of town. I have shared some of the truths God has reveled to me all ready. I think it fell on deaf ears.
More will be reveled, Gods will not mine be done.
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Roy, your letter is kind and full of love. Prayerfully written. I know some say not to have your letter read to all in the congregation, but that can cause some troubles too. I attended a Baptist church before the one I recently left. At the Baptist church I held a position and besides that, everytime there was a need, I'd be called to bring a cake or some other food. No one was told I no longer attended there and it was left to me. I finally told the one woman that has remained a friend, to tell the Pastor to tell everyone I no longer am a member. It's better for me not having them calling me, to serve.
As far as the recent church I no longer attend, no one has called or even asked my husband where I am. Soooo that is good that I'm not missed.
One thing with this Pastor though, he is struggeling with understanding about Jesus and God the Father. He can't grasp how it was not the Father in the O.T. Elmer came home today telling me about Glen's struggle and him trying to teach something he himself doesn't understand. It seems to me that God is working on him.
Soooo, we can pray for your Pastor and for Glen and the congregations, that God would open their eyes of understanding, to know who He really is and to understand His plan for humanity.
You are being obedient to your calling out, may God richly bless you.
It's hard,so hard when your spouse doesn't understand. For me it's opposite from you and your wife. I'm the woman trying to tell my man. You just keep praying Roy and we'll pray on your behalf .
Your letter is beautiful, say a prayer and send it off .
Father have your way in this matter and pour strength in brother Roy, may it be according to your Will ,in Jesus name.Amen
Meee
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Praise God my brother! We plant seeds and water those seeds. God gives the increase. Nothing we say or do falls on deaf ears - by faith we know that His eternal truths will stand and in His time He makes all things known. Our wives (many times) challenge our faith the most. I have concluded that it is meant to be that way since we are "one" with them. Pray with thanksgiving on seeing your wife draw closer to the Lord and continue to be the spiritual example to your family by your faith remaining strong in light of any criticism from them or anyone from your former fellowship. God is the rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. May your faith continue to increase! In Jesus, Amen.
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This is great thread. Not because I started it, but because of all the wonderful responses.
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Hi Roy,
I thought I should explain why I thought your letter should be read to the whole church. These are the words of our Lord:
Mat 18:15 But if your brother may sin against you, go and reprove him between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he does not hear, take one or two more with you, "so that on the mouth of two" or "three witnesses every word may stand". Deut. 19:15
Mat 18:17 But if he fails to hear them, tell it to the assembly. And if he also fails to hear the assembly, let him be to you as the nations and the tax collector.
It seems to me that your pastor is sinning not only against you but against the whole church, by teaching them lies, even if he is blind.
I don't know if you can take take "one or more with you", apart from your wife, so that leaves the option of "tell it to the assembly".
If I am taking these verses out of context, I stand to be corrected, but I continue to pray that the Lord gives you wisdom and guidance through His Holy Spirit.
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Thanks Geoff,
I should never say never, cause as soon as I do the Spirit may lead me to do what I have said I won't do.
Your advise is well received as is the explanation and the scriptures. Thank you very much. I will just wait on the Lord for direction. The dialogue has halted for now as the pastor has gone to Kentucky for a funeral.
There has been quite a buzz and I am sure it will continue for a while. There is a lot of side stepping and skirting of the issues. Unfortunately we have not yet had a thourough conversation due to schedules.
Thanks for all the thought, prayers and input
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Things have heated up a bit. The pastors wife emailed me while he was out of town. I was inspired to write her back and rebuked her a bit because she miss quoted me. Last night i got an email from the pastor. He went on about why I showed up for service yesterday if I believed they were a part of Babylon. I told him in previous conversation that I would stay on until a replacement was found, he must have forgot. He then made several statements like "haven't you made up or mind" Were you just saying good bye" "If we are Babyalon why would I want to continue in a covenant relationship by caring for their grounds" I started to respond piece by piece like Ray does in his response to the emails. I never sent it as I felt it was better not to. He is well versed in the Bible and Doctrine and side steps the areas I have pointed out that he can not refute. Instead he will go onto another area. He also used " I(the pastor) am confused" at the end of each question. I believe he is not confused but doesn't care to be direct so he attempts to soften his statements with that. So instead of arguing I sent this :Your questions have been asked and answered. Read the emails I sent you. That may be helpful with your "confusion" May God bless you and clear your confusion.
Peace, Roy
I have sent cut and pasted teachings of Rays too. He is blind and I cant do nothing about it. I cut the lawn for the last time and left the church key in the mail box with no note just the key addressed to the associate pastor who gave me the key. It is true that I do not want a covenant relation ship with Babylon, I did feel a debt of gratitude to them and didn't want to leave them hanging. I even had the following Scripture to show him he was right about serving Babylon:2Ch 19:2 And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the Lord I guess that's that. Peace Roy
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It didn't go well, or maybe in Gods eyes it went perfect. To make a long story short the animosity started to flow as he was cc his emails to the church leaders to protect himself. It is done, finally out of Babylon.
I need prayers as my carnal mind trying to make me think I am wrong and going down the path of destruction. I think I will take a walk in the woods and listen for Gods voice and some of Rays teaching on church government.
Thanks all for letting me share.
Roy
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Roy:
Just keep remembering that you are part of a wonderful family here, that will support you, love you and lift you up when you need it. NB
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I did send all the emails to the leaders and some of the congregation as i was inspired to do today :o
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I second NB. It can be difficult in the beginning. The more we study and get further away from Babylon, the more clearly we can see that God has given us a great gift in revealing who/what we were a part of before coming out.
You have done the right thing and I'm excited for you and your family.
God be with you.
Larissa
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Wow Roy, sorry to hear Babylon lived up to their reputation, at your expense. It is so hard to see people that you really care about and thought cared about you, behave in such a inconsiderate manner. I believe you have given them a great amount of you time and put a lot of effort into what you have been doing there and this is how they repay you. I can sympathize with you, because I had a similar experience with my ex-church.
John 15:18 "If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.
v. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
Luke 6:22 Blessed are you when men hate you,
And when they exclude you,
And revile you, and cast out your name as evil,
For the Son of Man's sake.
I will remember you in my prayers.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Thanks, Well recieved and needed.
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It is done. My keys have been turned in and their grounds service canceled. I haven't got a phone call, text message or email since I responded to the pastor and leadership. Persecution for righteousness sake isn't fun, but it is a blessing. I am praising God and praying for them. I feel sorry for the "many" But for the Grace of God there go I. Thanks again for all those responses, thoughts, advice and prayers. May God have mercy on us all. Peace, Roy
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Praying for you.
hugs,meee
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Roy this is all as it is supposed to be. Someone will benefit from your persecution besides yourself. We just don't know oftentimes while we are in the midst of it why it is happening. But thankfully we know our trials are always for our good and for the Will of God in our life circle. I always receive a lot of peace reading in Psalms when I am feeling run over. :-\ :)
Praying you will soon be feeling more peace and may your faith and walk make leaps during this time!
Blessings, Lin
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Hi Roy,
This is really where we begin to see things, that even now are hard but not impossible, to understand.
Here is the Patience of the saints:
Rev 13: 8-15 (MKJV)
8 And all dwelling on the earth will worship it, those whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world.
9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear.
10 He who leads into captivity will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed by a sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11 And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth. And it had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke like a dragon.
12 And it exercises all the authority of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and those dwelling in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And it does great wonders, so that it makes fire come down from the heaven onto the earth in the sight of men.
14 And it deceives those dwelling on the earth, because of the miracles which were given to it to do before the beast, saying to those dwelling on the earth that they should make an image to the beast who had the wound by a sword and lived.
15 And there was given to it to give a spirit to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might both speak, and might cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
Rev 14: 12-16 (KJV)
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
george.
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Hi Roy,
One of today's was an attempt to use "forsakesake not assembling yourselves" and told me that my leaving the church was not of God if I left and did not join another.
I got this too, this is always one of the chestnuts that is said when you leave church. I was a JW for 15 years and got it from them (and still do from my mum) and then after attending the local Baptist church and leaving I got it (and still do) from them too. The answer is simple though; It depends on WHO one is assembling with, and what they're assembling for
- "Now in giving these instructions I do not praise you, since you come together not for the better but for the worse" (1 Cor 11:17)
I get called the 'solo Christian', 'independent Christian' and 'freelance Christian'. I met one of the church members (one whom I dearly love) and he 'reminded' me that being a solo Christian was 'unbiblical' and I simply quoted the following scripture to him...
- "For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them" (Mt 18:20)
...and asked him if he recognised our little gathering on a street corner as 'church'. He remained silent and I invited him to drop in on me any time for a Bible discussion, prayers and edification. I know he will not do it because he loves the local church and wants me to go back there instead.
I have been there a few times but there's no life there, lots of singing, praise and the reading and sermon but though often the words are true they have no life in them so I leave feeling empty, in fact I usually feel drained.
How different it is when I come here though, how rich and full of life it is here. Even when there's just the simple request for prayer those requests are full of spirit and life, and that is where the spirit of the Lord Jesus is, IN HIS OWN and in their words.
So many people seek truth, but even truth is without value unless it is full of life.
As the Lord leads you so follow Him with all your heart, He will NEVER forsake you so NEVER trust in your feelings or the outward things because they are so deceptive, listen to the spirit that speaks within you, recognise the movement of God in your circumstances and know when He speaks to you through others. "In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths" (Pr 3:6)
Grace and peace to you and yours
Nelson
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Nelson, Wow that was great. Praise God for you and all that have poured into my life during this time. I continue in hope and faith. Thanks again to all. Peace Roy
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What a wonderful reply, Nelson. When I read "forsaking not assembling together", and your answer, "Now in giving these instructions I do not praise you, since you come together not for the better but for the worse" (1 Cor 11:17), I thought of the verse, "knowing this first, that every prophecy of Scripture did not come by its own interpretation" 2 Pet 1:20. Also, two verses after 1 Cor 11:17 we read, "For also heresies need to be among you, so that the approved ones may become revealed among you". All is of God, including the leadership's attempts to use Scripture against Roy.
Geoff
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Awesome reply Nelson.
Roy, you're in my prayers.