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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Phill B on August 13, 2008, 05:06:28 PM

Title: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Phill B on August 13, 2008, 05:06:28 PM

Ray said:

Quote

My wife and I met with Dr. Steger yesterday and discussed our situation. Dr. Steger is a man of faith, and is adamant about keeping God’s laws of health and nutrition. He kindly stated: “You break God’s laws and sooner or later He will smack you down.” He knows a little of my faith, and flatly told me and my wife, that he could not cure me, but that if I was to be cured, it would have to come from God. We were agreed on this.

What can I learn from God about the tragedy that Ray is going through now I wonder?

I would be grateful if someone could direct me to Scripture about keeping God’s laws of health and nutrition.

Is Dr Steger inferring that Ray did not follow some of these laws, hence he is being 'smacked down' by God?

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Vangie on August 13, 2008, 09:41:34 PM

A loved one that I shared Ray's story with seemed to zero in on that same inference. I haven't yet responded--I'm not sure either if there is scripture that backs up Dr. Steger's statement. Hopefully it was just an unwise choice of words by a well meaning person, as the love our God has towards His creation, especially His servants like Ray, is not even relative to our past physical sins right? I look forward to other responses here. I do feel that God led Ray to Dr. Steger, thus I respect whatever purpose He means for him to serve in Ray's life (here), but Dr. Steger is not our teacher, and I don't think we should give more weight to his comment than is warranted. Just my 2 cents and thank you for listening.

Love in Christ,
Vangie

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Linny on August 14, 2008, 12:46:54 AM

Having studied Biblical nutrition for over 10 years, may I attempt to share a little of what I've learned?
I think, first, that is was a well-meaning bad choice of words by the doctor.
Second, in the beginning, I also felt that God gave us "laws" about food. But 10 years later, I wouldn't say that anymore. We are no longer under food laws and nothing is unclean.
We went from total "veganism" to just vegetarianism back to what we think is a better, more balanced way.

We do not eat a perfect diet but we have found that if we eat closest to food's natural state, we feel better and stay healthier. We buy organic meat as much as we can, we buy raw dairy as much as we can. My studies say that the stuff being injected into our food supply is very bad for us. I try to cook from scratch and eat as little pre-made, frozen, boxed stuff as possible.

I don't microwave our food. We eat whole grains but could do without grains altogether and be better off. The food pyramid was bought and paid for so we ignore it.

Vegetarians lack certain vitamins so I think meat is needed (for about 2/3 of the population) in much smaller quantities than most eat and raised in free range, non-injected (steroids and growth hormones)states. We have also found that the foods in Leviticus that were deemed "unclean" are actually not healthy. So while I do not think it is a sin to eat pork or shrimp, I eat it RARELY because it isn't good for my body.

We think probiotics and enzymes are great for us and keep us healthy and we also clean out our colons every year. :o :-[

We treat illnesses naturally and don't listen to what the medical industry deems good for us because they are also bought and paid for by pharmaceutical companies. (We don't take drugs either.)

My children never had formula or jarred baby food, are unvaccinated and don't catch anything from anyone because their immune systems were allowed to grow naturally. Neither have ever been to a doctor with an illness and the worst thing they've had is maybe 1-2 colds each year that last about a day or two at most. One is 10 and the other is 7.

What a blessing to have healthy kids! :)

God pulled us out of other worldly systems (like the medical field) long before He pulled us out of the church. We question EVERY worldly system run by man. We have been blessed by what we have learned.
I believe it because by living it and raising my kids in it, we see the results!

I am so excited that Ray is going natural for his cancer. I know lots of people cured of cancer, diabetes, etc. etc. by going natural.
God is good!!!

I have not found any one person or book that I think has all the right answers. But I have read literally thousands of pages and hundreds of nutrition writers and formed my own beliefs accordingly. I strongly advocate everyone studying and learning and reading and taking responsibility for their own health. That is what Ray did! YEA!!!!

Linny

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: AK4 on August 14, 2008, 09:25:29 AM

Great post Linny,

I got a question. How expensive is it to try buy everything or most of your food organic? how bad is it to microwave food? What microwaving organic foods? (I love my microwave) :)

Quote

God pulled us out of other worldly systems (like the medical field) long before He pulled us out of the church. We question EVERY worldly system run by man. We have been blessed by what we have learned

That's exactly what i've put at the bottom of my posts. I'm thinking about getting some bumper stickers that say that. Maybe I should shave my head and get it tatooed there.

Nice post again Linny.

In Jesus,

Anthony

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Roy Monis on August 14, 2008, 01:43:12 PM

Quote from: Phill B on August 13, 2008, 05:06:28 PM

Ray said:
Quote
My wife and I met with Dr. Steger yesterday and discussed our situation. Dr. Steger is a man of faith, and is adamant about keeping God’s laws of health and nutrition. He kindly stated: “You break God’s laws and sooner or later He will smack you down.” He knows a little of my faith, and flatly told me and my wife, that he could not cure me, but that if I was to be cured, it would have to come from God. We were agreed on this.

What can I learn from God about the tragedy that Ray is going through now I wonder?

I would be grateful if someone could direct me to Scripture about keeping God’s laws of health and nutrition.

Is Dr Steger inferring that Ray did not follow some of these laws, hence he is being 'smacked down' by God?

Hi! All

It is not God but Dr Steger who is smacking Ray down on his own teaching. ALL IS OF GOD. So Ray should keep well away from Dr Steger and place himself in the lap of his God. "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And do not lean on your own understanding. (Pro.3:5) That is the best advice Dr Steger could have given. God is in control and His Will will be done. We have to unite in prayer on his behalf and of all our fellow member sufferers who are in need of prayer. God is no respecter of persons so we have to pray, in the sincere hope. that these cures being prayed for are in His predestined Will that's what miracles are, not a change in God's predestined plan.

God never changes, what is has already been. "That which has been is that which will be, And that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun." (Eccl.1:9). From man's perspective it is all present and future but from Gods perspective it is already done and it's history, His predestined plan. There is nothing new under the sun.

May God bless and heal you Ray and all our brothers and sisters who are in need of healing.

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Heidi on August 14, 2008, 02:10:09 PM

Quote from: Roy Monis UK on August 14, 2008, 01:43:12 PM

We have to unite in prayer on his behalf and of all our fellow member sufferers who are in need of prayer. God is no respecter of persons so we have to pray, in the sincere hope. that these cures being prayed for are in His predestined Will that's what miracles are, not a change in God's predestined plan.
[/quote]

Amen to that Roy!!!

Love Heidi

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: carol v on August 14, 2008, 02:41:26 PM

Linny I agree with most of what you said about great health tips because we are to treat our bodies as temples -- BUT -- you have been blessed with good health and healthy children. You are obviously a great mom but you are a blessed mom.

I have had chronic migraines for 40 years now so have a somewhat different perspective. I have read, studied and researched every thing I could find for years. I've tried herbs, vitamins, acupuncture, chiropractors, biofeedback, the migraine diet and every "cure" on the market. I've been through all the pharmaceuticals as well from beta blockers to antidepressants for prevention and many pain relievers. I had migraines before there was medicine specifically for migraines.

The emergency room was my forced mode of treatment for decades and then I had a decade of very painful self-injections but now, thank God, there are meds available that keep me out of the ER. Big Pharma charges me an arm and a leg for the Zomig I take BUT it has kept me from chopping my head off.

I am talking about 40 years of sometimes daily migraine -- and then I'll go through periods of great relief where I'll only have 2 or 3 a month. Without the medical establishment of Babylon I would have preferred death. In the last century I would have been buying those bottles of "tonic" with codeine and sucking them down.

And without the "worldly" medical establishment I would have died in childbirth. Luke was a physician.

A very close friend was an SDA and followed the health laws of Scripture pretty closely. She was vegetarian though. She died of breast cancer last year at 52.

My father died of cancer and chemo made him miserable. My SDA friend and my best friend 20 years ago both died of cancer and chemo made them miserable. I am also glad Ray is going natural. I would go the hyperbaric/oxygenating route myself and know that if it worked it was of God and if it didn't it was of God. I might try the Cancer Center of America because they mix natural with medical.

But a healthy diet didn't keep Ray's son alive and an unhealthy diet didn't "smack" Ray.

I agree with Roy but I don't think we are to "test" God by saying "heal me or nothing." God is using Dr. Stegler to His Purpose. He has used my lifetime of migraines to His Purpose. He has blessed me through the worldly medical system.

The leading cause of death is ... birth. It's just a question of what kind of death we have.

Yes, Heidi we must all unite in prayer. God's Will will be done.

Carol

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: KristaD on August 14, 2008, 03:35:01 PM

Linny, your family sounds very much like ours :). It's refreshing to see someone else who has had the same revelations that we have.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Linny on August 14, 2008, 03:42:02 PM

Hi Carol,
I am so sorry about your migraines. I have a dear friend who suffers so much from them. I haven't researched them as you have so I cannot answer why you have not found an answer. I am sure that God is using them for good in your life. But I also cannot say that there isn't an answer either. I see a lot of articles about them at mercola.com. Perhaps there is something there you have not tried, perhaps not. I understand your life experiences have led you to better feelings about the medical system. Mine have not. I watched my father lose all quality of life and die this year because of the medical system he put his trust in and I am doing my best to pull my mom out of it before it is too late for her. I have spent the last 2 weeks watching her be poked and drugged in the hospital and she is in re-hab now. Had I not known so many people to find healing outside that system, I would probably feel as you do.

But I have to say that I was not always a healthy person. I suffered from constant headaches till I went off artificial sweeteners. I used to have colds, flus, sinus infections, kidney infections, chronic yeast infections, abnormal cell growth in my uterus, I was also unable to have babies and not ovulating. My life changes that I was blessed to find changed all that for me. I was a baby with chronic ear infections. My kids have never had a single one. I don't think it is just that I am blessed that my kids are so healthy since the only other kids I know that are this healthy also were raised as mine. I don't think it is a coincidence. I do consider myself blessed however to have been given this information.

I hope I don't sound like I am arguing with you. It is a very tough issue and close to everyones hearts since we all have our own life experiences that go into our beliefs. I just wanted to say that from my life experience, I have found so much peace where we are and want to share that with anyone who will listen. Disease just doesn't scare me anymore as I truly believe that I can find healing from ANYTHING without the trauma of doctors, drugs and side-effects. It is a peace I wish for everyone. Having healthy children is an amazing blessing and my heart breaks for families who deal with sick children especially when I feel like what I have learned could help them.

Anthony, organic is expensive! We are on disability pay and we have no extra income so we have to be very picky about where we choose to be "extravagant." That is why I buy organic meat (mainly for my kids) and we buy organic carrots just because the others are nasty after you have tried organic and we juice them when we can afford it. I buy organic Romaine lettuce as it isn't that bad. I buy local and farmer's market as much as I can.
But otherwise, unless I find a great sale or a good price, we can't buy organic. But I read labels and buy food without added sugar, corn syrup, preservatives, etc.

The microwave reformulates the cells in your food and kills it more than stove top cooking. I just don't cook in it as dead food, organic or not, is pretty useless to my live cells and I don't like being in the room with the micro-waves. :o

KristaD! We need to talk! :)

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Craig on August 14, 2008, 03:44:54 PM

I agree Carol, we sometimes forget how much medicine has helped us and take it for granted.

Unlike our forefathers we don't have to worry about the horrible disease of smallpox and polio. Many, many died of the horrible death of caused by tetanus. Typhoid and a host of other childhood illnesses are nearly a thing of the past.

Does the medical establishment have its problems? Definitely, but we should not throw out the baby with the bath water. And we should thank God that these diseases are something less we have to worry about now.

My 3 cents

Craig

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: musicman on August 14, 2008, 03:55:36 PM

I agree that Ray is making the best choice available to him. The Chemo should be tried when it can lead to a normal life. The injections Ray spoke of would only prolong his life a few painful years. Ray did not pull the name, Dr. Steger, out of a hat. He did much research and was lucky that a successful holistic medicine man lives near him.

Now, about Steger's comment:

We are making a big deal over something that doesn't need to have an exact scriptural reference (who knows, maybe there is). The scriptures talk about sin and as Ray points out, a sin is falling short of the mark, or a mistake. I have no idea what Ray's diet consisted of but I am certain that there are 90 year olds that probably ate way more unhealthy. Our genetics are predetermined by God. Now, just because there might be 90 year olds that treated their bodies like garbage disposals, does not mean that they were not sinning with their habbits. It is a mistake to eat unhealthy. Therefore, every unhealthy meal consumed, has got to be considered a sin. Sometimes we pay for our sins with acid reflux. Sometimes, our indulgences lead to diabetes. Sometimes, cancer is the result of diet or smoking. Even if someone fully repents of their past lusts, they may still experience tribulation. But many never experience anything from sin, and they continue doing it their entire lives. Are they winning the race?, or losing the battle?

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: hillsbororiver on August 14, 2008, 05:59:08 PM

A very thoughtful and well reasoned post Musicman, bottom line is we do not have much control over our lifespans, of course it is prudent to live a healthy lifestyle but it will not ensure a disease free life or add one extra day to our physical life than what God has ordained.

There are lessons to be learned through these (sickness) experiences and many if not most are very unpleasant for all involved, sometimes it is good to just observe and listen (with faith and patience) as these things play out yet always remain hopeful and encouraging to others.

As far as dietary instructions go Carol mentioned the Seventh Day Adventists and their diet doctrine, they use Genesis 1:29 as the outline for what man should or should not eat, this is a vegetarian diet. Others use the dietary instructions in Deuteronomy in the preparation of meat and what is clean and unclean.

Peace,

Joe

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: carol v on August 14, 2008, 06:30:50 PM

Linny, I sure don't want to argue with you either because I agree with you basically. I buy and eat organic as much as I can. Avoid doctors. Read labels. Take the natural way whenever possible but have never found a natural treatment to help headaches. Yes, I've been to Mercola. The last thing I tried was rubbing my head with lemon rinds and tying it with a bandana. Haha. I've tried it all. I always have hope when I hear about something new and am always refilling my prescription shortly thereafter.

We should treat our bodies as temples but it won't add another day to our lives. It might add quality to our lives however.

As I mentioned, I have had terrible experiences with the traditional route of medicine as well and think the pharmaceutical companies are greedy and deceptive corporations that have done some good in spite of themselves. But I need them.

Since finding God's truth and sovereignty, I have realized that my own headaches have served to be an ongoing trial and tribulation that probably kept me from being a raging alcoholic. I am sure they have had a purpose but I have trouble rejoicing about it some days.

Joe is right. It's good to eat healthy but it won't add a day to the span of life that God predetermined for us. But, it will make the quality of that life span better. I have thrown garbage in my temple on many occasions and paid the physical price.

Just don't get roped into those folks like the Garden of Life fellow that is making a mint selling books and supplements based on his "scripture" diet. There are a bunch of them out there.

My basic plan is to eat God's food as natural as possible. I get most agitated when someone tries to blame God's food, like eggs, for disease and then sell us some man-made substitute.

C.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Linny on August 14, 2008, 07:17:47 PM

I am right there with you Carol on the people making a fortune in the nutritional area just like in the medical field as money seems to change everything once greed comes in. I don't follow any one person or put my trust in supplements. I use some supplements but I think food is the best medicine. Like I said, we went from vegan to vegetarian to balanced.

And Craig, having studied the history of disease, I don't give the medical establishment credit for the wiping out of disease any longer. Diseases run their course and God is the One who designed humans to build natural immunities and push out these killers. Vaccines were always introduced AFTER the disease had began to disappear. I've seen the charts. Polio was even re-defined to make it look like the polio vaccine worked. Like I said, and like Anthony said, question everything and question it until you get to the truth. If money is involved, question.

George Carlin said, ""The consensus reality is often intentionally misleading." I still highly recommend the paper I mentioned in another post, WHY AMERICANS WILL BELIEVE ALMOST ANYTHING. Just because it is the consensus, doesn't make it true. I apply this to every single man-made institution.

If I were in an accident, find me a doctor! If I am sick, I am the doctor.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: ciy on August 14, 2008, 07:42:49 PM

One of the basic themes of the bible is that the majority (many called) are wrong and the minority (few chosen) are right.

CIY

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: KristaD on August 14, 2008, 08:07:02 PM

Quote from: Linny on August 14, 2008, 07:17:47 PM

I am right there with you Carol on the people making a fortune in the nutritional area just like in the medical field as money seems to change everything once greed comes in. I don't follow any one person or put my trust in supplements. I use some supplements but I think food is the best medicine. Like I said, we went from vegan to vegetarian to balanced.

And Craig, having studied the history of disease, I don't give the medical establishment credit for the wiping out of disease any longer. Diseases run their course and God is the One who designed humans to build natural immunities and push out these killers. Vaccines were always introduced AFTER the disease had began to disappear. I've seen the charts. Polio was even re-defined to make it look like the polio vaccine worked. Like I said, and like Anthony said, question everything and question it until you get to the truth. If money is involved, question.

George Carlin said, ""The consensus reality is often intentionally misleading." I still highly recommend the paper I mentioned in another post, WHY AMERICANS WILL BELIEVE ALMOST ANYTHING. Just because it is the consensus, doesn't make it true. I apply this to every single man-made institution.

If I were in an accident, find me a doctor! If I am sick, I am the doctor.

Couldn't agree with this more!! :D

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Craig on August 14, 2008, 08:14:59 PM

Quote

And Craig, having studied the history of disease, I don't give the medical establishment credit for the wiping out of disease any longer. Diseases run their course and God is the One who designed humans to build natural immunities and push out these killers. Vaccines were always introduced AFTER the disease had began to disappear. I've seen the charts. Polio was even re-defined to make it look like the polio vaccine worked

I have studied the histories of disease and it comes down to who you are going to believe. I have seen the charts you mentioned and their data is error (no, not err it is lies.) An error would be a mistake, a lie makes up data to fit a preconceived outcome. And everyone does it. I agree the God is in charge of all that happens, he also gives the medical scientists the knowledge to develop ways to fight disease. I agree that the medical establishment has its problems and money is driving much of what we have, and we should always question our doctors and develop treatment that is right for us. I also know that the people preaching against the "establishment" also make a fortune and have turned their crusade into a religion, and like to spread fear and doubt.

You are fortunate to have a family with good health. What would you do if suddenly a child became type 1 diabetic? If you don't use the gift of insulin that God provided to medicine then I'm afraid your child would die. And don't tell me that there is a "natural cure", there is not one legitimate documented cased of a natural cure to type 1 diabetes recorded. But there are many hucksters on the web promoting their "natural cure" and claiming a cure. Not long ago in the news, some parents let their child die of type 1 diabetes because their religion taught them that prayer was the only treatment they needed. A .50 cent shot of insulin would have saved her life. With all that said however, God could heal if he so desires.

If tomorrow, suddenly, a vaccine came out that protected against cancer 99% of the time would we take it?

Everyone should use our common sense on what treatments we take, if we have a disease with a sure science cure, would we decide to take our chances eating seaweed and getting rid of chemicals in our homes or take the medicine and get well? I'm not knocking taking care of what we put in our bodies, but being militant about these lifestyle choices becomes an "idol of the heart" God is in charge, I can show you people who were vegans and anal about what they eat and what they let near them and they die of lung cancer at 35 years of age. I can also introduce you to a woman I know who is 96 years young and a 2 pack a day smoker since her twenties, she drinks and exercise is not in her vocabulary. God is the one who numbers our days, not us.

I do believe money for research is limited because companies spend the money on treatments of disease instead of curing disease. There is not as much to be made in a cure.

And one other point I would like to make is this, rich people die of disease the same as the poor. If there was a cure for disease and the pharmaceuticals are keeping it from us, then the CEO's of these companies and their families would not be dieing of disease the same as the rest of us, but they do. People who preach natural only cures should live to be at least 80, but they don't. God is in charge and numbers our days.

If you don't believe that medicine hasn't helped to eradicate the diseases I mentioned, then I guess I am now................ speechless.

Craig

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Linny on August 14, 2008, 08:58:31 PM

My sources are not anti-medical, they are medical researchers with dates and facts.

Pharma scientists don't look for cures, they look for treatments for symptoms and a way to make a billion dollars before they get sued.

I have no fear of my children becoming type 1 anything. The childhood diseases of today were rare to none when I was a child. What's different? Medical intervention. A new drugstore on every corner. A new vaccine for everything.

We will have to agree to disagree. ;)

Peace,
Linny

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: KristaD on August 15, 2008, 12:11:50 AM

Quote from: Linny on August 14, 2008, 08:58:31 PM

My sources are not anti-medical, they are medical researchers with dates and facts.

Pharma scientists don't look for cures, they look for treatments for symptoms and a way to make a billion dollars before they get sued.

I have no fear of my children becoming type 1 anything. The childhood diseases of today were rare to none when I was a child. What's different? Medical intervention. A new drugstore on every corner. A new vaccine for everything.

We will have to agree to disagree. ;)

Peace,
Linny

What else is different? McDonalds 3x a week, preservatives in everything, food dyes, high fructose corn syrup.... I could go on. The fact is the health of america is declining as americans get further away from a natural lifestyle and natural foods.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Jackie Lee on August 15, 2008, 02:00:38 AM

I attempt to eat as healthy as possible but has anyone seen this video?
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/447498/youll_never_eat_pork_again/

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: winner08 on August 15, 2008, 02:35:10 AM

Craig. I couldn't agree with you more. God has given us these wonderfull smart doctors and scientist who dedicate their entire lives learning and studing these terrible diseases. Of course not all doctors and scientist are this way. Like anything else they have good and bad people in every profession. God has given these people special gifts and we should use them accordingly. Someone mention where the childhood deseases of today were rare to none when he was a child. I'm not positive but I think more people died from diseases especially children before the discovery of penicillin and other antibiotics. Yes I can say I am pretty sure more died before the discovery of antibiotics than now. Even some terrible diseases are almost unheard of in some countries. Just think about it. Think about the terrible diseases of yrs ago and if we are better off today. The medical profession isn't perfect, far from it. It's better than it was in Christ's time. It's better now than twenty yrs. ago. Yes it's not perfect. I would rather be sick it this day and age than in my grandmother's day, when her sister died from an insect bite while planting flowers outside her house. Does not the Lord put these people on earth for mankind to use for our benefits??? Then again I probabley wrong.

Darren

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: OBrenda on August 15, 2008, 10:15:58 AM

Hi Everyone,

Jumping in to add my 2 cents.
I've never heard anyone teach on this, so let me be clear, this understanding or observation comes from me. And everyday, I adjust according to what God has added to my awareness. This discussion here is the same one we just had in the thread on paganism. Different Topic, same principle.

If we look at our history and our present, what is at the root of all the hate? What has caused wars and slaughter between minkind. Other than Evil which is a broad Truth, what is the fundamental thing we tell ourselves, that gives us permission to hate and slaughter another person? Think about it.....how many wars are rooted in religious good intentions? Are we not in a war right now fundamentally due to different understandings of what is good & evil in the eyes of God?

The muslin's believe in God, but they have added to Gods word. They have Abraham in their teachings, but have burdened their people by imposing "Sins" in everything. Women must be covered. Women can not be educated. Does this not seem foolish to you,...in order to stop women from causing a man to sin by lusting after her, she has to live her life under a sheet.

What is wrong with this thinking? I have a friend who drives a city bus, he is a christian still in Babylon, and complains about the way women dress today are causing a brother to sin? (although women should be modestly dressed and not wanting to draw this attention) can you see something missing from this also?...

I will share with you what I see,....

A religious spirit, a personality type, using two colors in their crayon box, and that's black & white.
They color their world, in the colors of a carnal mind....
and again I ask you, what is the fundamental thing we tell ourselves, that gives us permission to hate and slaughter another person?

IMO...it's the lie, that it's us against them. They are evil, We are Good. We have the truth, they do not! God likes us Better! It's an elitist mentality that thinks we have righteousness in what we do, or what we abstain from. From what I believe, to what they believe. It's the Us against Them mentality. And I believe it is the sin of pride!

WE ARE ONE!

Medicine & the Medical Field are not evil nor are they God. It consits of humans that are carnal. And humans that are doing good by the will of God. I think it is folly to paint them as the enemy, or to trust that they have all the answers. God works all things for Good!

Doctors & Medicine like everything else operate according to the Divine Will and purpose of God. So to see them as your enemy or your savior is both Idolatry. They will not add a day or take away a day without Gods permission.

Just like Christmas trees or not, it will not add to your righteousness. Who Christ is is our righteousness.Please forgive my boldness, as we all sharpen each other, I grow also...
Brenda

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: mharrell08 on August 15, 2008, 10:45:37 AM

Quote from: OBrenda on August 15, 2008, 10:15:58 AM

Hi Everyone,

Jumping in to add my 2 cents.
I've never heard anyone teach on this, so let me be clear, this understanding or observation comes from me. And everyday, I adjust according to what God has added to my awareness. This discussion here is the same one we just had in the thread on paganism. Different Topic, same principle.

If we look at our history and our present, what is at the root of all the hate? What has caused wars and slaughter between minkind. Other than Evil which is a broad Truth, what is the fundamental thing we tell ourselves, that gives us permission to hate and slaughter another person? Think about it.....how many wars are rooted in religious good intentions? Are we not in a war right now fundamentally due to different understandings of what is good & evil in the eyes of God?

The muslin's believe in God, but they have added to Gods word. They have Abraham in their teachings, but have burdened their people by imposing "Sins" in everything. Women must be covered. Women can not be educated. Does this not seem foolish to you,...in order to stop women from causing a man to sin by lusting after her, she has to live her life under a sheet.

What is wrong with this thinking? I have a friend who drives a city bus, he is a christian still in Babylon, and complains about the way women dress today are causing a brother to sin? (although women should be modestly dressed and not wanting to draw this attention) can you see something missing from this also?...

I will share with you what I see,....

A religious spirit, a personality type, using two colors in their crayon box, and that's black & white.
They color their world, in the colors of a carnal mind....
and again I ask you, what is the fundamental thing we tell ourselves, that gives us permission to hate and slaughter another person?

IMO...it's the lie, that it's us against them. They are evil, We are Good. We have the truth, they do not! God likes us Better! It's an elitist mentality that thinks we have righteousness in what we do, or what we abstain from. From what I believe, to what they believe. It's the Us against Them mentality. And I believe it is the sin of pride!

WE ARE ONE!

Medicine & the Medical Field are not evil nor are they God. It consits of humans that are carnal. And humans that are doing good by the will of God. I think it is folly to paint them as the enemy, or to trust that they have all the answers. God works all things for Good!

Doctors & Medicine like everything else operate according to the Divine Will and purpose of God. So to see them as your enemy or your savior is both Idolatry. They will not add a day or take away a day without Gods permission.

Just like Christmas trees or not, it will not add to your righteousness. Who Christ is is our righteousness.Please forgive my boldness, as we all sharpen each other, I grow also...
Brenda

Excellent post Brenda...very well spoken. I am in complete agreement.

Marques

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Beloved on August 15, 2008, 12:29:37 PM

I have avoided commenting on this topic. I have not called Ray to talk to him. I know that this is a very emotional time and that he is dealing with many issues.

Brenda I think your post was excellent, Comin from you is bettter that it cam efrom me. I agree now is the time for spiritual discenment and lets put all carnal aside.

I think Ray going to this naturapath is very Good. I have talked to Ray many time in the past and he does not listen to advise. Because he has read some , he thinks he knows "all" I think God has his attention now.

First his diabetes is way out of control. RAY thinks he is eating good, but he is not. He is trying to eat the foods that are in this food toxic environment. His surgars are all over the place. How can he even think of working against this prostrate cancer in this state of being. He needs to lose weight too, this will help his blood pressure. He has to learn to eat a lot better. If God made it , eat it moderation, if man has tinkered with...avoid when ossible.

My only fear that the nathurpath will be too agressive with physical therapy, I am afraid for the bone fractures. He has putty where there should be bone right now. Pain will then enter in the equation.

Here in Nashville we think we found two open studies at vanderbilt both are for metaststatic prostrate cancer. he will get his medications free.

I most heartedly agree that he needs to take the Lupron. I do not understand why Ray thinks he is 'signing his death cetificate' (pray those words be removed from his mouth) All things are possible for God. Ray can do nothing in hiself...not even change a gray hair.

I give Lupron to health women (for endomriosis not resonsive, it is give before surgery to decrease the implants) It is not chemotherapy is the true sence. It work on the brain to shut off FSH and LH. By doing this all hormones stop including the testosterone which is feeding these prsostrate cells. These cell are like unruly teenages , consuming and moving all over the place and taking over. IT is time to dicopline these cells

Lupron worse side effect is ( like going into menopause) some of the ladies know this...hot flashes night sweats, insomnia and irritability probably for lack of sleep.

MY concern with the naturapth will be that he will probbly use SOY, which is good, but it may exaggerate and cause gyneasta (breast enlargemnt) . My hope is that a good diet will give him needed oxidants and vitamins, he is probably deplet of many despite taking some oral supplement. The goal is to keep him from becoming cachectic (emaciated) his body has very little nourishment within its being.

God has given this condition to Ray with purpose and for good. God's will must be done at this time. It is all Ray's decision in the end of all discussion

(Psa 85:10)
Mercy and Tuth are met together;
Righteousness and Pace have kissed each other.

God the father has given us the Law and Jesus has given us the Mercy, both of thes must be in balance in order for any event to give God the Glory.

In the meantime all the prayers from our members will be like a sweet smelling scent because we know God is soverign and pray in this manner.

Beloved

WE have a place for Ray to stay here in the area and he might only have to come once a month after the initial evaulation and first treatment. I am trying to get more information about the two trials
One is comparing a new trug to traditional
The other is comparing another drug used for proratrate with tradtional

I will pray that if Ray agrees to do this that God will place in the apporpriate program.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: carol v on August 15, 2008, 03:40:17 PM

Excellent post Brenda. And Beloved, I hope Ray will listen to hear another option. Hopefully and prayerfully, it is God's will that he will make the right decisions to prolong his life and his teaching. I have always thought that in the same situation I would combine traditional and alternative treatments.

My father died of cancer. My mother died 5 days later from a defective blood vessel exploding in her head. Because of my own migraines, I think I will probably go like my mother.

And Craig, one of the worst organizations duping the public like you mentioned is PETA. They have this "doctor" regularly going on TV telling people about the dangers of eating meat. I've seen him on the Today Show but he is not a medical doctor at all and fronts for PETA.

Interesting thread.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: musicman on August 16, 2008, 12:51:53 AM

I've heard that the slaughtering practices of pigs can contaminate the meat with adrenalin. This is because of the severe termoil the animals go through as their throat is cut but they remain alive (sure, they go into shock but that's probably after they suffer). I saw a show that may have one favoring PETA temporarily (even though they're a bunch of kooks). I think animal suffering should be eliminated at slaughter houses.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Roy Monis on August 16, 2008, 09:51:52 AM

Quote from: musicman on August 16, 2008, 12:51:53 AM

I've heard that the slaugtering practices of pigs can contaminate the meat with adrenalin. This is because of the severe termoil the animals go through as their throat is cut but they remain alive (sure, they go into shock but that's probably after they suffer). I saw a show that may have one favoring PETA temporarily (even though they're a bunch of kooks). I think animal suffering should be eliminated at slaughter houses.

Hi! musicman

How ghastly! Do they really have their throats cut? I always thought the method used in slaughterhouses was to have the head in a sort of stock and then a sort of hammer blow in the area between the eyes which instantly killed them. Something similar to the method used by some African native tribes using a large stone.

Sure puts me off meat this does, so bad luck chickens.

God bless you brother in our joint walk in Christ.

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: musicman on August 16, 2008, 10:49:29 AM

Actually, it might be that they slice them straight down their mid section, spilling their guts out onto the floor. I saw this in a documentary. The pigs are hanging upside down (still alive) cut down the middle, begin raisin hell and shaking.

Sick stuff!!

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Linny on August 18, 2008, 03:40:14 PM

The ways that man has come up with to raise and butcher God's creatures for food is very sickening. You should watch a chicken video as well. They are raised so that they cannot even walk. The antibiotics and steroids and growth hormones that our conventional meat is injected with is why little girls are having periods at 10. Our dairy is also filled with growth hormone.

My dh used to be a Meat Market Manager at a major grocery chain. He tells stories of cutting huge tumors out of beef before they cut it into steaks, etc.

I believe that meat is healthy for us in smaller quantities and organically grown. I am horrified at how the animals in conventional farms are housed and treated and killed. I don't think God is happy about it.

And a lot of fish is full of mercury so you have to be careful there as well. :-\

This is why we buy organic as much as we can. For health reasons and for the animal's sakes.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: OBrenda on August 18, 2008, 05:03:27 PM

Yikes!
Was that pork video for real? Tumors...Ughhh!
When you really think about the concept of eating & consuming anything,...it can be distressing.
Why even eat cute baby carrots?
I'm serous I understand where the American Indians developed their reverence to the food they eat.
Why does something have to die in order for me to live?
Sounds like there may be a parable in there maybe?

I think I'll skip dinner,
Brenda
:-[

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: musicman on August 18, 2008, 05:25:52 PM

Linny, in all due respect, I don't think the chickens give a crap about being couped up. Remember, animals don't think like we do. I've never heard of chicken depression or chicken suicide (pecking themselves to death). As far as cows go, they're so ugly that we do them a favor by eating them (if they don't expeirience pain, that is) (*not allowed*).

Often vegetarians tell me that they get their protein from dried beans and such. I respond by informing them, that I get my protein from dead animals.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: musicman on August 18, 2008, 05:27:20 PM

People

Eating

Tasty

Animals

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: cjwood on August 18, 2008, 06:42:42 PM

Quote from: musicman on August 18, 2008, 05:25:52 PM

Linny, in all due respect, I don't think the chickens give a crap about being couped up. Remember, animals don't think like we do. I've never heard of chicken depression or chicken suicide (pecking themselves to death). As far as cows go, they're so ugly that we do them a favor by eating them (if they don't expeirience pain, that is) (*not allowed*).

Often vegetarians tell me that they get their protein from dried beans and such. I respond by informing them, that I get my protein from dead animals.

i know this whole thread is meant to be serious, but i was laughing out loud at your post musicman. i am an animal lover and i eat very little meat, but i DO eat meat. i loved your new meaning of PETA. as serious as diet is, and especially as serious as ray's cancer issue is, we all need to remember that laughter is an especially good medicine.

claudia

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: NJKen on August 19, 2008, 12:33:18 AM

Linny!!!!!! It is so powerful to hear a woman have passion and to be intense about the truth of nutrition.
Thank you for sharing!!!!!!

Ken

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: ez2u on August 19, 2008, 01:33:17 AM

I read all of this thread and its the same old argument. How many people here have been in Rays' shoes?
or similar situation? Well i was. I had breast cancer about 7 years ago. A few months before it was discovered my adopted dad gave me videos of J.R. Christopher and the herb doctor, Richard Schulze. You want to get rid of your migraines. The first step is to get your system clean out. Start with colon cleanses. Colonics and stop eating the junk we have been brain washed to eat from corporate America, who wants to maintan our sick bodies. The Lord spoke to me as i was going through my program to dissolve my lump it would be my appetite that would be the challenge. Try it some time go with out your coffee, soda, sugar,salt, meat, eat only raw vegetables and fruits. I dissolve cancerous lump by not taxing my body with cooked food that makes my body work harder just to digest and eliminate them. Cooked food also doesn't provided the water content that is needed for healthy cells, and elimination. Nor does it provided vitamin c very important for cellular digestion of all your nutrients. Read Linus Pauling's studies on his research. He won TWO Nobel peace award for his work in vitamin c, No One else has has been award two awards. People are ignorant of how to take care of their bodies and this countries medical doctors don't know either. They aren't taught but about 1/2 hour of nutrition in their studies. They died early as a group too. I know there are many well mean doctors but i wanted to live and i have been cancer free for 7 years now. There is nothing perfect on this earth but Jesus Christ. I have heard some very foolish people saying irresponsible things just because they didn't want to discipline their flesh and eat better. We know better food is not just a item to feed our body its a comunitive expression. We incorporate it just about every thing we do and to be a part of others lives we eat what is set before us not doing what we should do. Grab for the coffee and donuts. peggy

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Linny on August 19, 2008, 02:31:20 AM

Thank you Ken! And Peggy! I am so happy you joined in the discussion. I know a lot of people healed of a lot of things but your testimony is so powerful. It is exactly why I said disease doesn't scare me anymore. I truly know how to get healed.
You are absolutely right. We do regular colon cleanses. I think it is probably a main reason why we stay so healthy now as opposed to before.
You can find little books on the importance of keeping a healthy colon at most any health food store.
Anything you can read by Dr. Norman Walker is great. He lived to like 101 and died in a skiing accident. 8)

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: KristaD on August 19, 2008, 11:03:04 AM

Wow, Peggy that was beautiful!!! Thank you for sharing that with us. It is so wonderful to hear how going back to natural, God intended eating can change people's lives. Thank you women for speaking your minds about this even if it's not a popular opinion. I wholeheartedly agree with both of you (Linny and Peggy) about the medical profession and I am grateful to God that He has directed Ray to take a different course, whatever His will is in the end.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Triton on August 19, 2008, 12:52:35 PM

Hi Ya'all,

My wife and I decided to only use olive oil instead of the other stuff when we really 'have' to fry. More expensive though.

We bought a steamer (they're cheap) and use it every day. Cooks very fast, easy to clean and keeps the good nutrients in the food instead of losing it in the water or oil. The dishes are perhaps not as tasty, but we add flavor with a wide range of healthy herbs. Especially garlic and ginger, which are known for their health benefits.

Also bought a bread maker. Again, fast (i only use the 1 hour setting), quick and easy to clean and you can change any recipe to your preferred flavor. Immediately after baking the bread, I put it in the fridge for a rapid cooling period - I've been told this helps with keeping Vitamins in the bread, not sure about that though, but no harm done if that's not true. We add herbs, raisins and nuts for extra flavor and stopped using any butter or margarine. And it makes the kitchen smell wonderful and gets my pugs going crazy when they start smelling it!

No soda at all. I've found that coffee makes me really tired. So no coffee. Green tea instead - contains caffeine, but this helps with my tiredness. As well as other herb teas. And if making tea, it's good to boil for about 10 minutes. Rooibos tea from South Africa, if available, contains high amounts of anti-oxidants that is known to be a cancer fighter.

I use organic vitamins daily. They're expensive, but much cheaper than going to the doctor! Glucosamine took the crackling sounds out of my knees within 4 weeks. Good stuff for the joints.

Lastly, if I'm not close to death, I NEVER take medicine.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: carol v on August 19, 2008, 04:01:45 PM

Linny -- you are right about the hormones in meat but they aren't the only source of estrogen in our kids lives. The meat-subtitute called SOY is loaded with estrogen and used extensively in schools. Probably the main source is the estrogen imitator that comes out of plastic. Every plastic bottle and plastic container leaks a substance that mimics estrogen.

Peggy -- I have done many colonics. I have eaten pure organic. I still have migraines...

And also Peggy -- my very close friend, Karen Krooskos Bowers (you can google her) was a vegetarian and nutritionist before she got breast cancer. She had a website for years dedicated to the vegetarian way of life. She was an SDA her entire life. After her diagnosis, she followed and taught classes in the raw veggie diet. She followed the Gershon Protocol which is raw vegan, colonics, juicing...hard work.

Following the raw vegan diet and Gershon protocol along with traditional medicine...the breast cancer spread to her brain and she died about 7 months after the original diagnosis.

I am very happy for you that you are cancer free. And yes, we should eat better. But frankly, we also need to be careful that we don't think our own works and virtues are responsible for what only God can do -- heal us temporarily to extend our lives for His Purpose.

God's plan was for you to be cancer free. God's plan for Karen wasn't. God's plan was for you both to try the raw veggie diet. And yes, I know she was SDA but she was the most sincere seeker of Christ I have ever known. A wise and wonderful if somewhat deceived woman.

My mother was thin, ate healthy her entire life, exercised regularly and refused to even take an aspirin. (Lucky for her, she didn't have migraines.)She sought God sincerely. Was kind and thoughtful. She died at 63.

Her sister was very fat, ate crap her entire life, never exercised, juggled prescriptions like a circus performer and was a mean liar. She died at 76.

Eat healthy. Feel great. But don't take credit for God's Plan. AND especially, Peggy, don't blame someone with a chronic illness for their disease. I've been through that with doctors my whole life. "It's psychological." Uh-uh. Now you tell me I need a colonic. I'm very familiar with Colonix. I have done the lemonade fast which is all over the internet. Why do you assume my system has needed cleaning out for 43 years?

I'm going to start another box of Colonix soon. It's in the kitchen. It ain't gonna help my migraines though. I know that because none of the other boxes did. And the fasting with salt flushes for system cleaning didn't stop my headaches.

Triton, I do everything you do with the exception of quick cooling bread. No soda, only a few cups of green tea, organic vitamins, healthy herbs, and especially PUGS. Love PUGS! But you obviuosly don't have a chronic condition that affects the quality of every minute of your life for forty-three years so far or you'd not be making the statement that you will never take medicine. God has blessed you.

You guys seem to be taking a bit too much credit for your own good health and blaming others for their lack of it without putting God in the equation. Let's just follow scripture and give God all the glory. Treat our bodies like temples and do the best we can. We need to make sure that our own virtuous health habits don't become an idol of our hearts and a source of pride.

I have done that and browbeat others with my opinions on the "natural" way many times. I still believe it. I still practice it. I agree with everything you have all said about both bad medicine and corporate America and how we should try to follow a healthy lifestyle. But I no longer give myself any credit or think for a second it will extend my life.

I thank God every day for the medicine He has given me to take. It is a blessing.

Carol

(haha musicman...tasty animals are best on the grill)

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: KristaD on August 19, 2008, 05:07:50 PM

You are absolutely right Carol there is NOTHING that we can do that will alter God's will. That is a comforting thought to me :). I don't think that's an excuse (and I don't think that you are saying it is either) to live an unhealthy lifestyle and be careless with our diet and health.
I am so glad you brought up the soy, most people don't realize that soy is full of phytoestrogens that have been linked to cancer in women and lowered testosterone and sperm counts in men.
I am sorry that you are still suffering from migranes but we know that God has purpose for ALL things and I know that He has/does/will use it somehow. Not everything is fixable IMO, we can only do what we can to make our bodies the healthiest that they can be. It's kind of like when people say "well why live right if we are all saved anyway?" "why live healthy if God can kill us at any time anyway?" the simple answer to both is that you do it because you care and out of love. Love for God and respect for His holy temple which we all know is our bodies. It sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of that :).

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: lilitalienboi16 on August 20, 2008, 12:23:29 AM

Hey, i plan to be a doctor one day with God's mercy and grace, shame on all you who talk bad about them! God give's the knowledge for anything and everything to each one He see's fit, to this their is no doubt. None the less though, doctors are not out to do harm, but to help, and that is what i want to do in this physical body to provide for a family one day, Lord willing.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: cjwood on August 20, 2008, 02:56:46 AM

Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on August 20, 2008, 12:23:29 AM

Hey, i plan to be a doctor one day with God's mercy and grace, shame on all you who talk bad about them! God give's the knowledge for anything and everything to each one He see's fit, to this their is no doubt. None the less though, doctors are not out to do harm, but to help, and that is what i want to do in this physical body to provide for a family one day, Lord willing.

i was so glad to see your post alex. i pray that God will bless you to become a great and compassionate physician. what better mix than to have a doctor who can incorporate helping your physical body and also can speak the Absolute Truths of God to his patients. to all the naysayers of physicians we cannot loose sight of Luke the physician. yes, i know that the American medical system has its' problems, but then again, so do so many other "systems" of this world. i too am a breast cancer survivor 8 yrs out. i have always taken care of my body and been careful about eating healthy and when i wanted to eat something that might be considered unhealthy, i ate it in moderation AND, before i eat anything i always ask God to have mercy on me and ask Him to bless my meal with His good nutrition. i ask Him to remove any bad additives/preservatives and then i dig in. when i read part of a post saying that person isn't afraid of diseases because they know how to get healed, i.e. by eating only natural, organic, cleansing this and that. my first thought was "what about God". isn't He the one who heals us, whether thru the help of a wonderful physician/medical team or thru changing the way we eat???

bottom line is, i would not be here typing this post if God had not led me to get a mammogram which showed the lump in my breast. from there He led me to one of the best breast surgeons in texas. God healed me and thru all i went thru because of the cancer, my faith and trust grew even stronger. i met many wonderful people in the medical field who wanted nothing more than to help, comfort, and support me in my journey. i also met many people at the cancer center who i got the opportunity to pray for God's Will to be done in their lives. so long story short, kudos to you alex in your decision to become a doctor.

your sister in Him,
claudia

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: lilitalienboi16 on August 20, 2008, 03:30:02 AM

Quote from: cjwood on August 20, 2008, 02:56:46 AM

Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on August 20, 2008, 12:23:29 AM
Hey, i plan to be a doctor one day with God's mercy and grace, shame on all you who talk bad about them! God give's the knowledge for anything and everything to each one He see's fit, to this their is no doubt. None the less though, doctors are not out to do harm, but to help, and that is what i want to do in this physical body to provide for a family one day, Lord willing.

i was so glad to see your post alex. i pray that God will bless you to become a great and compassionate physician. what better mix than to have a doctor who can incorporate helping your physical body and also can speak the Absolute Truths of God to his patients. to all the naysayers of physicians we cannot loose sight of Luke the physician. yes, i know that the American medical system has its' problems, but then again, so do so many other "systems" of this world. i too am a breast cancer survivor 8 yrs out. i have always taken care of my body and been careful about eating healthy and when i wanted to eat something that might be considered unhealthy, i ate it in moderation AND, before i eat anything i always ask God to have mercy on me and ask Him to bless my meal with His good nutrition. i ask Him to remove any bad additives/preservatives and then i dig in. when i read part of a post saying that person isn't afraid of diseases because they know how to get healed, i.e. by eating only natural, organic, cleansing this and that. my first thought was "what about God". isn't He the one who heals us, whether thru the help of a wonderful physician/medical team or thru changing the way we eat???

bottom line is, i would not be here typing this post if God had not led me to get a mammogram which showed the lump in my breast. from there He led me to one of the best breast surgeons in texas. God healed me and thru all i went thru because of the cancer, my faith and trust grew even stronger. i met many wonderful people in the medical field who wanted nothing more than to help, comfort, and support me in my journey. i also met many people at the cancer center who i got the opportunity to pray for God's Will to be done in their lives. so long story short, kudos to you alex in your decision to become a doctor.

your sister in Him,
claudia

Thank you so much claudia, it means alot to me. It's a horribly long journey with all the schooling and i am very frightened that i cannot handle what is required, only God keeps me going and He has put it on my heart this passion and desire to help those who are in great need and He has shown me this is the best way i can do it and make an earnest living to one day provide for a family. So this is what i really want to do. What you said rang complete truth, God heals us their is no doubt, but it isn't always the "genie in a magic bottle" method, were bam! Flash! Out of the sky, presto, it's gone! Sometimes it through the people around us that the Lord has blessed and through the wonderful creation He has made that we are given as sustinance, that we are healed. Along that journey, we are blessed as you were, to meet those who are in need of prayer, and than through our struggles and pain the Lord uplifts us, so that we may help and pray and ask on their behalf - a miracle.

Thank you and God bless!

In Christ,

Alex

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Heidi on August 20, 2008, 04:34:53 AM

HOW CAN THERE BE UNITY WITH TOPICS LIKE THIS!!!

Except for the last two posts and a few in between it all sounds so carnal. Come on my brothers and sisters in the Lord.....let this subject go. There are more important things to learn!

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: OBrenda on August 20, 2008, 09:46:39 AM

Quote from: Heidi on August 20, 2008, 04:34:53 AM

HOW CAN THERE BE UNITY WITH TOPICS LIKE THIS!!!

Except for the last two posts and a few in between it all sounds so carnal. Come on my brothers and sisters in the Lord.....let this subject go. There are more important things to learn!

Heidi,

God bless you I see you are a Lover of Peace!

But as unpleasant as some of these discussions become, how else do we become united, unless our opinions are spoken, and our hearts open for correction? Thank God we have Brothers and Sisters who have opinions and are engaged for giving answer to them.

If we can not have the freedom to have our ego's stepped on in this place, then we are just playing church.

Wide is the Gate many go through, Narrow is the Gate that Christs leads us. And although that Gate is narrow there are many many different paths,[our experiences] that lead us to the one Gate, the one truth. What you see here is God shifting out the chaff in our lives. If we are truly following His voice, we won't find correction to our ideas a stumbling block. Painful Yes. That's the price for God's Wisdom.

We need to be Real here, hanging out like a family, some of us in our PJ's having a coffee, or a juiced veggie drink! Everyone is precious. All of us have something to add here, and all must take turns, throwing out the trash. I trust God's Spirit to work in each one of us to examine our own hearts and make adjustments accordingly.

If anyone has read through this post, and has not added anything to their understanding, then God has blinded them.

In the Spirit of Love,
Brenda

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Roy Monis on August 20, 2008, 10:30:24 AM

Quote from: musicman on August 16, 2008, 10:49:29 AM

Actually, it might be that they slice them straight down their mid section, spilling their guts out onto the floor. I saw this in a documentary. The pigs are hanging upside down (still alive) cut down the middle, begin raisin hell and shaking.

Sick stuff!!

Hi! Musicman & Linny

Reading your posts has made spew m guts out. I had no idea of the suffering before it arrived on my table. I wonder if Daniel's diet would be be best way out. If worked such wonders for him I'm sure it would be worth a try.

"But Daniel made up his mind that he would not defile himself with the king’s choice food or with the wine which he drank; so he sought permission from the commander of the officials that he might not defile himself. Now God granted Daniel favor and compassion in the sight of the commander of the officials......But Daniel said to the overseer whom the commander of the officials had appointed over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah, “Please test your servants for ten days, and let us be given some vegetables to eat and water to drink.......At the end of ten days their appearance seemed better and they were fatter than all the youths who had been eating the king’s choice food. So the overseer continued to withhold their choice food and the wine they were to drink, and kept giving them vegetables. As for these four youths, God gave them knowledge and intelligence in every branch of literature and wisdom; Daniel even understood all kinds of visions and dreams." (Dan.1:5;11-12; 15-16).

But there again you can't win against greed, as water rates would go through the ceiling followed by the cost of vegetables. Starvation seems the only likely option for not having the Babylonian mark of the beast in your forehead.

Is anyone willing to keep me company?

God bless you brother and sister in our joint walk in Christ.

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Linny on August 20, 2008, 05:00:48 PM

Not sure if you are being serious Roy but my dh and I are actually planning to go all veggies and fruits in Sept just to get cleaned out and full of energy. I think that some people can actually live healthier without meat but some of us can't. I can't so this is temporary for me. But I do think that we are responsible to treat all God's creation with mercy even if they are dumb and know no better.

Heidi, please correct me if I am wrong but it seems that you are saying that those of us who think that trying to be better to our bodies and staying away from drugs are carnal but those who spend no time learning for ourselves but spend lots of money on drugs and doctors are not carnal? I think that there are just TONS of things we need to learn and this is just one of them. If I am better able to talk and walk and think, then I am serving God to the best of my ability. My Grandmother spent her last 20 yrs with Alzheimer's and my dad spent his last 15 in a chair or in the hospital. There is a lot to be said for the quality of ones life. I think this is very important stuff.

I also think that this is the best place to talk about ALL THE WORLDLY things that we Christians need to come out of.

So for me, I don't think that learning about how our bodies work best is carnal at all. I certainly made it carnal in the early stages of my learning as food was a god to me. But God knew I'd move out of that stage. I know I am not alone in saying that everything I have learned has had God's stamp on it. His leading has been so obvious to me. What I have learned has also saved me, my family and a lot of my friends a lot of suffering. For example, two of them came to me when they didn't want to have tubes put in their baby's ears and I knew what they could do. Two children without tubes that now have cleared up miserable infections without any drugs or surgery. What a blessing! And it was so easy!

Rom 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
This discussion is all about God and God's will if you ask me.

Please forgive me if anything I have said sounds like I take credit for anything. I simply believe that my Heavenly Father gave us all a self-healing body that if fed better can be healed. I give Him all the credit for my lack of fear. My lack of fear is because He taught me that He is the One who heals and He is the One who created the things that can heal me. But I also believe that His will surpasses my own and He is the One who chooses to heal me. And I also believe that He can heal me without my doing ANYTHING or NOT heal me even if I do.

From what Carol has said, she has tried all routes for her migraines. I don't know why God has not healed them. Just as I do not know why God allowed my Spiritual mentor to die at 61 (she was a complete healthy eater) and my dad to die at 73 who did nothing for his last 15 years but take drugs and surgeries. It does not change what God has shown me however. I know that I am healthier now than I used to be. That is all I need to know.
And Carol, we don't do soy either! Also, we did Colonix too but found another one that is supposed to be easier on your body and was rated higher than Colonix and is cheaper. Message me if you want a website to check it out.

Brenda, I just loved your post. You are so right. We don't have to agree here with everybody. We are all in different places. If you have learned something here, great. If you haven't, fine. I love everyone no matter where they happen to be. My hope is always that what I have learned might lessen someone else's suffering. If they aren't led to go that way, I don't get angry. God has us all right where He wants us to be.
I have to be ready to talk about it if I feel led to in case someone IS ready to hear it.

Believe me when I say I have kept my mouth shut a zillion times more than I have opened it. In regards to this topic and especially about BT topics! I do my best to listen to the Lord about when to speak up.

Many blessings to all...

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Heidi on August 20, 2008, 10:28:53 PM

Hi there Linny....yes, you did misunderstand me.

Brenda raised some valuable points which I will take and meditate on. This is a place for all of us to grow and become united.

Love you all.

Heidi

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: winner08 on August 21, 2008, 12:23:40 AM

Yes musicman you are correct. These poor animals, cows, pigs and such do suffer something awful while being killed for dinner. Yet that doesn't stop me from loving beef and pork. I seen that document on how they kill these animals. Hanging them on a hook and cutting them down the middle. Letting the blood drain out. Then the immigrants clean up the mess and work the line, cut them up and probably get pay close to nothing. That's a different topic. For you Roy, Yes the animals do suffer before, and doing their death. But like I said this will not stop me from eating beef and pork or chicken.

Darren

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: carol v on August 21, 2008, 12:35:04 PM

I certainly believe the animals should be slaughtered as humanely as possible but let's also be aware that God Himself was requiring the slaughter of animals as sacrifices for centuries. The Levites and their families ate these animals.

I imagine that slaughtering something like a bullock is not a pretty sight and if we saw it on video we wouldn't enjoy it, but God obviously intended for animals to be slaughtered for food.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: AK4 on August 25, 2008, 07:45:31 PM

Hi all,

Im thinking of doing a colon cleanse or a detox. Anyone have some honest info on this? pros & cons

Athony

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Linny on August 25, 2008, 09:11:04 PM

Hey! Yes, I highly recommend it. If you go into most any healthfood store that sells books, you can find a book by Norman Walker about why you should cleanse the colon.

Here is something I found quickly:
Benefits Of Colon Cleansing
A healthy colon is crucial to living a healthy life. Many ailments begin in the colon, and, if not discovered or treated, can cause serious problems. Such ailments can even lead to death. In America today, colon cancer is one of the most prevalent types of cancer.

Part of the reason so many Americans have an unhealthy colon is the lack of fiber benefits to their diet. The required daily allowance for fiber intake is 20 to 30 grams, an amount few people achieve. However, eating a diet with insufficient fiber is like cleansing dishes without a sponge. You simply can't get all of the grime off the plate. Without fiber in the diet, scraping the colon clean during each use is impossible. Buildup occurs, resulting in the health problems mentioned above.

Health Benefits of Colon Cleansing
Colonix, the cleansing program we offer at DrNatura.com, works with natural ingredients such as fiber to help get the colon back to functional health. A simple cleanse that takes place over a period of several months so as not to shock the system, Colonix requires oral supplements, a fiber substitute, and laxative tea. The combination of these ingredients benefits the body by ridding it of collected, impacted waste.

Cleansing and detoxification are important aspects of maintaining a healthy colon. As the colon's function is to absorb nutrients and help eliminate waste, it benefits the body to make sure it has a clear pathway. Take charge of this important bodily function: Get started cleaning your colon today.

We have done Colonix but the next one we are trying is called OXYPOWDER. The reviews we read said it was easier on the system and an easier cleanse. Plus it is less expensive. About $45.

I have also done a 30 day colonic cleanse. I own my own colonic board. And I have done a 14 day fresh juice fast. That one is REALLY good for you. We did the Lemonade diet last year and I won't do that one again.

Feel free to PM me if you want more info.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: AK4 on August 29, 2008, 03:05:51 PM

Hi all,

I got this from the book of Barnabas (ch 10). I know its extra biblical, but what i read from this book so far makes me wonder why it didnt make it in canon. I got this from the Codex Sinaiticus, one of the earliest credible sources for the NT scriptures. This excerpt is very interesting with thread.

Barnabas 10

1 But in that Moses said, Thou shalt not eat the swine, nor the eagle, nor the hawk, nor the crow, nor any fish that hath not scales in itself, he had in his mind three doctrines.

2 For in the end he saith unto them in Deuteronomy, And I will arrange before this people my ordinances. The commandment of God is not, therefore, that they should not eat; but Moses spake in a spiritual sense.

3 He spake of the swine with this meaning: Thou shalt not cleave, he meaneth, unto men of this sort, who are like unto swine, for when they become wanton they forget their Lord, but when they are in want they think upon the Lord; even as the swine when it eateth knoweth not its lord, but when it is hungry it crieth, and when it hath received it is again silent.

4 Nor shalt thou eat of the eagle, nor of the hawk, nor of the kite, nor of the crow. Thou shalt not, he meaneth, cleave to, nor be like to men of this sort, who know not how to provide sustenance for themselves by labour and sweat, but in their iniquity seize the property of others, and, as though they walked in innocence, watch and observe whom they shall plunder, through their covetousness; even as these birds alone provide not sustenance for themselves by means of toil, but, sitting idle, seek out how they may eat the flesh of others, being destructive by reason of their wickedness.

5 And thou shalt not eat, he saith, of the lamprey, or the polypus, or the cuttle-fish. Thou shalt not, he meaneth, cleave to or become like unto men of this sort, who are impious unto the end, and have been already condemned to death, even as these accursed fish alone swim in the depth, not floating as the others do, but dwelling in the earth below the depth of the sea.

6 Thus, he saith, Thou shalt not eat the hare, meaning thou shalt not indulge in unnatural lusts;

7 nor shalt thou eat the hyaena, meaning thou shalt not be an adulterer;

8 nor shalt thou eat the weazel, meaning thou shalt not do uncleanness with thy mouth concerning food;

9 therefore Moses spake in the spirit these three doctrines. But they, according to the lusts of their flesh, received them as being about meat.

10 And David receiveth knowledge concerning the same three doctrines, and saith in like manner, Blessed is the man who hath not walked in the counsel of the ungodly, even as the fish walk in darkness into the depths of the sea, and hath not stood in the way of sinners, even as they who pretend to fear the Lord sin as doth the swine, and hath not sat in the seat of the destroyers, even as the birds that sit for prey. Ye have also in the end a commandment concerning food;

11 but Moses said, Eat ye everything that is cloven-footed and that cheweth the cud. What meaneth he? He that taketh food knoweth him that feedeth him, and, resting upon him, seemeth to be glad. He therefore saith well, having regard to the commandment. What then meaneth he? Cleave ye unto them that fear the Lord, who walk in his commandments, which they have received in their hearts; unto them that speak of the ordinances of the Lord, and observe them, unto them who know that the practice of them is a work of gladness, and who meditate on the word of the Lord. But what meaneth that which cleaveth the hoof? It meaneth that the just walketh even in this world, and expecteth the holy life. Behold how well Moses hath made these laws;

12 but how was it possible for them to perceive or understand these things? But we, having rightly understood the commandments, speak them even as the Lord hath willed. On this account hath he circumcised our ears and hearts, that we should understand these things.

For those who dont know Barnabas was traveling with Paul before they had a strong dissagreement.

Anthony

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Linny on August 29, 2008, 03:49:53 PM

Hey Anthony! I used to be quite literal with the Old Testament food laws when I first started learning about nutrition. God molded me through 10 years of learning to find balance.
There is one particular ministry that we learned a lot from, that is, in my opinion, completely wrong in their legalism.

This Scripture is clear about the legalism in food laws...

1Ti 4:1 God's Spirit clearly says that in the last days many people will turn from their faith. They will be fooled by evil spirits and by teachings that come from demons.
1Ti 4:2 They will also be fooled by the false claims of liars whose consciences have lost all feeling. These liars
1Ti 4:3 will forbid people to marry or to eat certain foods. But God created these foods to be eaten with thankful hearts by his followers who know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 Everything God created is good. And if you give thanks, you may eat anything.
1Ti 4:5 What God has said and your prayer will make it fit to eat. 1Ti 4:6 If you teach these things to other followers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus. You will show that you have grown up on the teachings about our faith and on the good instructions you have obeyed.

The hardest thing I have ever tried to do in my walk is the balance with nutrition and not allowing food to become a god to me.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Stevernator on August 29, 2008, 04:31:28 PM

Wow Anthony that was awesome! Im gonna try to read the rest of that book. I'm so glad its like I learn something new every day!

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: AK4 on August 29, 2008, 04:44:49 PM

Hey Steve,

Thanks. After reading chapter 10 though i can see how this epistle doesnt fully harmonize with the rest of scripture.

Anthony

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: ciy on August 29, 2008, 05:33:51 PM

Anthony,

Chapter 10 of Barnabas is not scripture.

CIY

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: AK4 on August 29, 2008, 06:17:42 PM

Quote

Anthony,

Chapter 10 of Barnabas is not scripture.

Oh i know i was just reponding to what i had put in my post earlier

Quote

I got this from the book of Barnabas (ch 10). I know its extra biblical, but what i read from this book so far makes me wonder why it didnt make it in canon. I got this from the Codex Sinaiticus, one of the earliest credible sources for the NT scriptures. This excerpt is very interesting with thread.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Phill B on August 30, 2008, 06:47:51 AM

Thanks kindly for everyone who took the time to post on this topic.

As I am relatively new to Bible studies I was surprised by how little scriptural information there is in the Bible(s) about Gods eating plan for his family. I have a hightened interest in this issue firstly because I have suffered from overweight/health problems most my life, and further when Rays doctor mentioned Ray had violated Gods laws about eating – my ears plucked up. Just prior to Rays recent grim cancer prognosis, I had been listening to Rays audios and realised that some of his health problems were common to me also …sleep apnea, high blood pressure…etc. I had come to believe my problems were mainly due to an extremely poor diet including eating too much cooked (dead) food. Rays illness has given me a timely wakeup call to get my health plan in order (again).

And could it be that Dr Steger knows something of Gods divine diet that the Bible does not reveal?

Undertaking some further research, I now get the feeling eating meat was perhaps not in Gods original plan for man, so, in addition to some other food changes and eating habits, I have decided to eliminate all meat from my diet. This is a big deal as I have eaten meat all my life. I will monitor how this new eating plan affects my health. If I don’t see or feel any significant improvement I guess I’ll be back to McDonalds for breakfast pretty fast!

I appreciate that depending on ones perspective you can pull up different scriptures and teachings to either support or oppose a view or belief. Below are several scriptures along with other information that I have found interesting and motivation to support my new eating regime.

Genesis 1:29 (King James Version)
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; TO YOU IT SHALL BE FOR MEAT…

Exodus 20:13 (King James Version)
Thou shalt not kill.

The exact Hebrew wording of this biblical phrase is lo tirtzack. One of the greatest scholars of Hebrew/English linguistics (in the Twentieth Century) -Dr. Reuben Alcalay - has written in his mammoth book the Complete Hebrew /English Dictionary that "tirtzach" refers to "any kind of killing whatsoever." The word "lo," as you might suspect, means "thou shalt not."

Many Bible scholars persist with the theory that Christ ate animal flesh, obviously swayed in their opinions by personal habits. The desire to accede to prejudice and uphold existing tradition has been a human characteristic for many centuries, but truth appears now even more important as man exerts his independence in so many aspects of life.

Respected Bible scholar Rev. V.A. Holmes-Gore has researched the frequent use of the word "meat" in the New Testament Gospels. He traced its meaning to the original Greek.

His findings were first published in World Forum of Autumn, 1947. He reveals that the nineteen Gospel references to "meat" should have been more accurately translated thus:
Greek word, number of references and actual meaning.
·   Broma 4 "Food"
·   Brosis 4 "The act of eating"
·   Phago 3 "to eat"
·   Brosimos 1 "That which is eaten"
·   Trophe 6 "Nourishment"
·   Prosphagon 1 "Anything to eat"

Thus, the Authorized Version of John 21:5, .'Have ye any meat?" is incorrect. It should have been translated: "Have ye anything to eat?"

"Fish" is another frequently mistranslated word in the Bible. Its reference is often not to the form of swimming life, but to the symbol by which early Christians could identify each other. It was a secret sign, needed in times of persecution, prior to official acceptance of Christianity as a state religion.

The sign of the fish was a mystical symbol and conversational password. Its name deriving from the Greek word for fish, "ichthus" Much later it was represented an acrostic, composed of leading letters of the Greek phrase, "Iesous Christos Theou Uios Soter"-"Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour."
Frequent references to fish are intended as symbolic of The Christ and have nothing to do with the act of eating a dead fish. But the symbol of the fish did not meet with Roman approval. They preferred the sign of the cross, choosing to concentrate more on the death of Christ than on His brilliant life. Perhaps this is one reason only ten percent of His life record appears in the canonical scriptures. Most of His first thirty years has been omitted.

Various "Translations" of the 6th Commandment
'Thou shalt not kill any living thing,' for life is given to all by God, and that which God has given, let not man taketh it away. ~Jesus, Gospel of the Holy Twelve, (earliest known recorded words of Jesus)

Daniel 1:11-15 (King James Version)
Then said Daniel to Melzar, whom the prince of the eunuchs had set over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days; and let them give us PULSE (vegetables) to eat, and water to drink.

Then let our countenances be looked upon before thee, and the countenance of the children that eat of the portion of the king's meat: and as thou seest, deal with thy servants.

So he consented to them in this matter, and proved them ten days.

And at the end of ten days their countenances appeared fairer and fatter in flesh than all the children which did eat the portion of the king's meat.

Matthew 3:4 (King James Version)
And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.

Gospel of the Holy Twelve
And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a girdle of the same about his loins, and his meat was fruit of the locust tree and wild honey.

Isaiah 7:14-15
Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil and choose the good.

Acts 11:6-8 (King James Version)
Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.

But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: OBrenda on August 30, 2008, 10:38:49 AM

Phillb

I've been struggling also with peace of mind for a food plan. I'm a sever "Carbohydrate Junkie" if I eat it I am constantly hungry all day long every minute! I have mostly tried to stick to low-carb Atkins's diet, but I was told that this causes the body to become acidic, which as we know from Rays situation is a breading ground for cancer.

I wonder how one finds out if their bodies are acidic, and how one can reverse this?

Confussed,
Brenda

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Samson on August 30, 2008, 11:45:21 AM

Quote from: OBrenda on August 30, 2008, 10:38:49 AM

Phillb

I've been struggling also with peace of mind for a food plan. I'm a sever "Carbohydrate Junkie" if I eat it I am constantly hungry all day long every minute! I have mostly tried to stick to low-carb Atkins's diet, but I was told that this causes the body to become acidic, which as we know from Rays situation is a breading ground for cancer.

I wonder how one finds out if their bodies are acidic, and how one can reverse this?

Confussed,
Brenda

Hello Brenda,

You mentioned Carbohydrate addiction, some people can't handle Carbohydrates(starches, sugars, etc.), that's most people. I'm not necessarily referring to Non-Concentrated Carbohydrates such as vegetables and fruits, unfortunately some fruits excite the pancreas to release too much insulin resulting in a yo yo effect in your blood sugar levels, leading to energy highs and lows; IE- Moodiness, mid-afternoon tired. Carbohydrates are more quickly converted to sugar(glucose) than Proteins and Fats and the body stores sugar in the form of Glycogen in the liver and muscles, most people store in their liver approximately 360 grams of Glycogen. So what happens is that any Carbohydrates(Glycogen) that is consumed in excess of what your muscles readily have available and what's contained in your liver stores, turns into Fat. Proteins and Fats provide a satiating effect helping the body to delay hunger.

When Low Fat Diets were being highly touted in the 1980's, people gorged themselves with these Carbohydrates(Bread, Pasta, Potatoes and Cereals) and got fatter. The Theory behind the Low-Carb diet is that after the body burns all it's available Glycogen(stored sugar) in the muscles and in the Liver, the body will start converting it's Fat Stores to be used for energy by producing Ketone Bodies, this process is known as Ketosis, unfortunately the body likes to convert Protein to Glycogen for energy too. That's why, if someone decides to go on a Low Carb Diet consisting of 10 grams of carbs per day(Atkins phase one) or less, IMO they should will have switched over to Fat as it's source of fuel, because by then, all the stored Carbs contained in the Muscles and Liver will have been used. That's Why the third and fourth day on this diet is difficult, because the body is waiting to switch it's fuel source from Carbohydrates to it's own Body Fat, so that's when your most tired, before the switchover in fuel sources is taking place.

Does all of this imply that Carbohydrates are bad, not necessarily, but if you think you might be a Carb Addict, it might be a concern for you. It's my opinion if most people would primarily eat good sources of protein, eat a balanced intake of Saturated and Unsaturated Fat's(50/50 ratio), vegetable carbs only and some fruits(blueberries, strawberries, cantaloupes, mostly the Melon & Berry family), they wouldn't have weight problems. Most other fruits are too high in sugars. This is all easier said than done. Some might disagree, but it's my opinion that most overweight people(that includes me) can't tolerate too much Carbohydrate, because it tends to make them hungry and they can't stop eating, so sometimes even a reasonable amount of the so-called good carbs might increase their appetite.

If Brenda or anyone would like to PM me for further discussion on this Subject, feel free and I will convey to you how I used to Eat during the time period of 1986-1990 and how successfull this was. When it came to Diet and Exercise, Vince Gironda(former Bodybuilding Trainer) was Brilliant when it came to Diet and Food combining, a man ahead of his time.

IMO from reading, experimenting on myself for 25 years.

Kind Regards, Samson.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Kat on August 30, 2008, 01:04:58 PM

Well what I am realizing is that reaching our body's best health is very difficult and a delicate balance to keep. But it is our responsiblity to strive towards that. If we break these health laws, knowingly or unknowingly, we will pay the consequences. This whole thing of keeping our body pH balance right seems very important. I found this site 'The Importance of Your Body's pH Balance for Health' that gave a good explaination of this.

Since Louis Pasteur discovered the germ theory of disease that states germs are the cause of disease, time has proven him correct. But note Dr. Pasteur's dying words: "The germ is nothing, the inner terrain is everything."

The inner terrain referred to in Dr. Pasteur's statement refers to our body's digestive tract, lymph system, blood, and urinary tract. Our bodies are alkaline by design and acid by function.

Maintaining proper alkaline balance is essential for life, health, and vitality. Simply put -an imbalance of alkalinity creates a condition favourable to the growth of bacteria, yeast and other unwanted organisms.

We live and die at the cellular level. All the billions of cells that make up the human body are slightly alkaline, and must maintain this state in order to function and remain healthy and alive.

However their cellular activity creates acid and this acid is what gives the cell energy and function. As each alkaline cell performs its task of respiration, it secretes metabolic wastes, and these end products of cellular metabolism are acid in nature.

This can be likened to a shift in our biological terrain from a healthy oxygenated, alkaline environment to an unhealthy acidic environment. You see, what is healthy for us is unhealthy for the body attackers and what is healthy for them is what is unhealthy for our body.

A state of acidosis is simply the lack of oxygen and available calcium which the body uses to maintain its alkaline balance. The oxygen level drops in this acidic environment and calcium begins to be depleted. So as a defense mechanism, your body may actually make fat to protect you from your overly-acidic self.

There are many ways to keep your body at a healthy alkaline environment. These include: Eating alkalizing foods. This all takes time. It is not easy to reverse acidity once we become too acidic.

During this century, despite many technological advances in our society, we have seen many declines. One of the most obvious and dangerous is the nature of food production. Food in our most advanced countries has changed from nutritious raw foods to highly processed foods low in nutritional value.

Over 100,000 new chemicals have been introduced to our foods, air, and water. All of these changes have put even greater stresses on our body's innate ability to affect the chemistry of our body fluids, and therefore our biological terrain. As a result we see huge increases in the incidence of chronic and life-threatening diseases.

The alkaline diet is opposite the high protein, high fat, low carbohydrate diets that was in vogue with the Atkins diet plan. The therory of this diet is that because our body's PH level is slightly alkaline our diet should reflect this and also be slightly alkaline.

A diet high in animal protein, sugar, caffiene and processed foods tends to disrupt this balance. It can also deplete our supplies of calcium, potassium, magnesium and sodium and make us prone to chronic diseases.
http://www.naturalhealthbenefits.com/health-acid-alkaline.html

This is what I feel we are being shown about the foods we are consumming and our body's needs. It is simple, but yet quite complicated to implement. There are many sites that list acid forming and alkaline forming foods, but there are contradictions in this lists from site to site, so I can't recommend one. But we do need to take heed to this, as we are to be physically intune with keeping our temple healthy, as well as being spiritually healthy.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Patrick on August 30, 2008, 03:17:20 PM

Quote from: OBrenda

I wonder how one finds out if their bodies are acidic, and how one can reverse this?

Brenda

Body Ph test kit; introduce more alkaline into your system/reduce acidic intake.

I've been doing some research on this and one site I found even went as far as monitoring your stool.
Bottom line; if it floats, that could be good or bad, but for the most part is what you want.
I laughed when I read it, nevertheless, I understand the reason behind it.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: OBrenda on August 30, 2008, 04:05:50 PM

Wow,

I know a Doctor who was examining me once commented that my Breath was fruity, and that it was a side effect of a low carb diet. He also told me that it was extremely unhealthy and could lead to death. So when I eat more carbs, I experience out of control hunger, and I gain weight. And when I gain weight my diabetes kicks back in etc...

I feel trapped in a no win situation. Both roads seem to go the wrong way. I know there must be an answer, and I will search it out with the links...Thanks! I don't think I'm alone in that I resent having to give so much attention to eating. There just seems to be so many more important things in life. I thought after having surgery, I would no longer waste my energy and obsess about this subject.

I realize overeating is a sin [gluttony] and hunger is a biological message that will power alone can not overcome! (No free will or ability within ones self to be free of this) Sorry...I didn't intend to babble on about my struggle...If we learn the real wisdom/science concerning this, there would be so much freedom!

And this Acidic vs Alkaline makes allot of sense,
Brenda

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: carol v on August 30, 2008, 11:00:34 PM

Brenda ... It DOESN'T LEAD TO DEATH !!!

You are exactly right in what YOU should eat. Kat is right on what SHE should eat.

There are two types of basic biochemical metabolic makeups -- sugarburners and fatburners. The sugarburners, like you and me, can't metabolize sugars and they make us very unhealthy -- this doesn't mean white cane sugars this means even more than a serving of fruit a day.

The fatburners can't metabolize fats and fatty proteins and it makes them very unhealthy. I have an article that explains the science of this but everyone reading should understand just by common sense and from this thread. What works for Samson, Brenda and me obviously is not what works for Kat or Linny.

There is a small percentage of people, around 10%, who are lucky and can metabolize anything just fine. I'm sure you guys know some of those too.

What makes you alkaline is NOT what makes another person alkaline. You can do an expensive test to discover if you are a sugarburner or a fatburner OR you don't have to because you already know. In fact, what makes another person alkaline is what might KILL you.

PLEASE -- don't listen to that doctor.

Here is the latest study reported by the Associated Press Medical Writer in July:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-07-16-1822321056_x.htm

The Atkins diet has been proven in a very extensive study to be the most effective and most healthy for a large majority of people -- not everyone -- but for you and me. Notice this quote in the article:

"Some critics had predicted the opposite." Critics will tell you what they want to believe themselves. Your doctor is one of those. Critics made poor Dr. Atkins' life miserable and now this study has vindicated him. Notice the lower bad cholesterol and blood pressure in the Atkins dieters.

I have had two separate alternative homeopathic doctors tell me from two separate tests that I am to eat fatty meats/oily fish and ABSOLUTELY NO WHEAT. Other grains are okay in very small quantity but the no wheat is important. I am not always able to do this but I know from experience how much better I feel with mental and physical clarity when I follow this plan.

The first doctor told me that 20 years ago. My mother had sent me to him but she totally flipped out when she heard what the doctor had said. It was beyond her comprehension of what was healthy that someone would tell me to eat fatty meat, butter, etc. She so flipped out that she convinced me to continue with the low fat, lots of pasta diet that was all the rage at the time -- to my detriment.

Chet Day has a report on his website showing that the majority of "famous" vegetarians actually ate meat themselves. It is a stupid idea to go completely vegetarian BUT some people, fat burners, are supposed to eat mostly fish, white chicken and lots of healthy complex carbs. I wish I was a fatburner but I am a sugarburner.

There are even vegetables that are better for fatburners and sugarburners -- nightshades for instance. I can point you to this list.

Please don't let some doctor or well-meaning fatburners tell you, as a sugarburner, what to eat. You already know. You already said what makes you feel the best and you are RIGHT!

If you are interested in discovering a little more of the science behind biochemical metabolic types and imbalances then pm me. In the meantime, the old saying that "One Man's Fruit is Another Man's Poison" is absolutely true.

What makes you alkaline is NOT what makes someone else alkaline. As I said, and it's so important because I see how confused you are becoming, you already know what makes YOU feel best. Listen to yourself. Your doctor is just parroting the conventional wisdom.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: OBrenda on August 30, 2008, 11:33:47 PM

Thanks Carol,

Even eating the high protein, butter & cheese my doctors tell me I have the lowest Cholesterol they have ever seen! I love bread & pasta, but I'm insane when I eat it! I will pm You & Samson.

I appreciate everything to understanding this Alkaline & Acidity business!
Brenda
???

P.S. Patrick ??? it should float? :-\ :D

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: KristaD on August 31, 2008, 10:10:08 AM

The Weston A. Price foundation is a great place to research how to eat healthy. He was a dentist that studied native cultures and what they ate and believes that we should eat natural foods according to our origins to maintain the best health.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Kat on August 31, 2008, 12:40:37 PM

Hi Krista,

Interesting site, I think there is great value in seeing the cycle of life in the food we eat.

What I presented above was an attempt to show the diet plan and what Ray is trying to implyment in his struggle to obtain a healthier life style. But I am just learning of this myself and haven't adjusted my eating habits to this.
I do believe it is our responsibility to seek to determine what is this most natural and healthy diet, in order to keep our bodies functioning properly.
There is a great amount of resources on the internet, but that also creates confusion in which way to go. We can only share what we have knowledge of. Carol you seem to be quite in tune with your body and it's needs, I wish I could be more aware of these things.

I think we just have to let the Spirit be our guide and do the best we can :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Linny on August 31, 2008, 06:36:38 PM

So interesting. Samson, such a great post. I am also a carb addict and one who could easily do without. Kat, Carol, and others, I am in complete agreement that we have to find out what works best for us and what makes us feel the best. I know people who are big time food combiners. I never found it at all important for us.

Back in the 80's before the Atkins diet became famous, I did my own form of a low carb diet. I lost 21 pounds in 3 weeks. :o I looked great but almost fainted at work. ::) SO bad for me! When they said to eat 20 carbs a day, I would eat 0-5. :-[ Not real bright.

Like you Brenda, carbs do not last for me. If I eat protein, I can go hours without being hungry. I think Americans, me included, eat WAY too much. If we just ate only when completely empty and only a fist full of food, enough to satisfy, we'd all be thin and feel great. Food is too much of a form of entertainment. Not that you shouldn't enjoy your food, but for me, it is an out of whack thing that I am always working on.

I have urine strips to check my pH. Apparently morning urine is a pretty good indicator.

I even use soap that is pH balanced and free of animal products too. Clogging the pores when the skin is your number one organ of releasing toxins isn't a good idea. If you get a tub ring, you are using animal products. My soap keeps my tub clean! ;D

Yes, there are just TONS of informational links on the internet. That is why it took me 10 years to come to any sort of balance and even now, I am always willing to learn something new. What I have learned the most is just how much I can change my mind when presented with new information! What has shocked me the most is what I have learned on BT! ;)

Lin

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Dave in Tenn on August 31, 2008, 07:09:04 PM

I wonder if they have similar conversations in Rwandan refugee camps.

I think we lost our way when food became 'nutrition'.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Linny on August 31, 2008, 11:59:47 PM

That's interesting Dave because I always felt like we lost our way when food STOPPED being nutrition. :-\

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: OBrenda on September 01, 2008, 11:04:40 AM

Hi Everyone,
I admire all the research many of you have done on this. I think what One Shares on this subject is added to by Kat & Samson & Carol & Linny & Krista and Many Others...It's great when the Body of Christ Brain Storms on an issue, as IMO there most likely is not just one formula for food/nutrition for all people.

Last night I was watching TV with my DH and it was on "Epigenetic Therapy"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/genes/issa.html

Q: People tend to think that the genes they're born with are set in stone—they're not going to change. But your epigenome does change. Do we have some responsibility to maintain it?

Issa: The realization that the epigenome is so important to health and disease is really fundamental, because we now understand that the epigenome is something we can do something about, as opposed to the genome, which is what we are born with that we can really not modify. The epigenome is a little more dynamic. Potentially what we eat in infancy and what we eat in development could affect the health of our epigenome. But it is more than that. Smoking and exposures and lifestyle habits can affect our epigenome. And perhaps more interestingly, not to be negative all the time, there might be interventions that would make our epigenome more healthy.

What I learned is that what ever we are exposed to like famine/smoking/chemicals is passed down to our offspring for generations! Sound familiar? [Sins of the father are visited to the 3rd and 4th generation?]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/genes/mice.html

A Tale of Two Mice Watch the video in the link above if you have interest...
A mouse gives birth to identical-twin sisters. One has brown fur and will grow up to be lean and healthy; the other has yellow fur and is destined to be obese and prone to disease. How can two mice sharing exactly the same DNA become so different? The answer lies in the epigenome, a kind of second genome that all animals have, including humans. The epigenome dictates which genes in the genome are turned on and which are not, a process that can differ even between identical twins. In this audio slide show, see how this process works in mice and what the implications are for our own health and that of our children and even grandchildren.—Rima Chaddha

For those of you that are close to Ray has he looked into this type of therapy?

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: AK4 on September 01, 2008, 02:25:54 PM

Great post Brenda,

Wow, I used to be real skinny and now im like 25 pounds overweight in like 3yrs and after what they said in that slide I am going to try a soy diet.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Linny on September 03, 2008, 12:37:56 PM

Brenda,
Tell me if I am wrong but I am wondering if what you posted about the
Epigenetic Therapy is a lot like the following.
I believe that we are born with certain genetic factors that predispose us to certain disease. Some are born with tendencies towards heart disease and others to cancer, etc.
But with environmental factors being different or changed, we can alter what we were born with to some extent. Meaning, if we eat and live exactly as our parents, we will have the same diseases. But if we change our environment from what we eat to how we move and the chemicals we are exposed to, we can alter that.

My babies were fed completely differently than most children and I can see now at age 10 and 7 how that has affected their state of health.
They just don't catch anything. Each gets a 24 hour cold about once or twice a year. It is amazing to see.

Would you say this is what the program you watched was saying?
It sounds very interesting...

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: lilitalienboi16 on September 03, 2008, 06:17:09 PM

I can't believe all this talk about don't listen to this doctor and don't listen to that doctor is still going on. Do you guys know the amount of studying and schooling it takes to become a medical doctor? Your doctor isn't an idiot, and if i was you i would listen to him. Yes their are bad doctors out their, but that doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the dirty bathwater now does it? Bad apple in every basket, but for the most part, 90% of doctors, if not more, are good doctors who know what they are talking about. They tell you things not because they don't know what their talking about, but because they genuinely believe it is in your best interested and for YOUR health.

Just curiouse, are any of you Medical doctors in here? If so, than by all means please give us your imput.

God bless,

Alex

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Linny on September 03, 2008, 06:39:54 PM

I'm sorry Alex but we have been talking about a lot of things on this thread and I even went back on this whole page and never saw once "don't listen to this doctor and don't listen to that doctor."

We are just talking about natural ways to find healing using all the things God has given us.

If you choose to use doctors, then go for it. It is your right to do so. Just as it is my right to read for myself and try other things.

By the way, I have gotten a lot of my information, especially regarding child issues, from a Pediatric doctor with 30 years experience who teaches when you need a doctor, and when you don't. It was his very educated opinion that we have used doctors way too much and to our detriment.

Bless you,
Lin

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Kat on September 03, 2008, 07:31:55 PM

Hi ALex,

I do understand your being defensive, as I believe that is what you are studing now. But what has occurred to me is that the doctors are being taught by the system that involves the constant use of pharmaceuticals and I am beginning to see this as a vicious cycle. Certainly we do depend on doctor, but maybe too much. There are many other means to seeking health care, herbal treatment, homeopathy and diet-based therapies.

I've looked into this many times before, it's hard to break away from all you've ever done. But with Ray's illness and treatment, I have a renewed interest as never before, there are alternatives and they use natural means to get healthy, they do not generally work together with one another. It is a decision that we have to make about how we take care of our bodies. I would much rather use natural remedies other than the pharmaceuticals, so I'm researching into all this.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: lilitalienboi16 on September 03, 2008, 07:58:54 PM

Quote from: Linny on September 03, 2008, 06:39:54 PM

I'm sorry Alex but we have been talking about a lot of things on this thread and I even went back on this whole page and never saw once "don't listen to this doctor and don't listen to that doctor."

We are just talking about natural ways to find healing using all the things God has given us.

If you choose to use doctors, then go for it. It is your right to do so. Just as it is my right to read for myself and try other things.

By the way, I have gotten a lot of my information, especially regarding child issues, from a Pediatric doctor with 30 years experience who teaches when you need a doctor, and when you don't. It was his very educated opinion that we have used doctors way too much and to our detriment.

Bless you,
Lin

Carol V wrote; "PLEASE -- don't listen to that doctor"

Edit: Sorry carol V, i'm not trying to pick on your or anything.. simply showing LIN that i had reason for what i said.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: OBrenda on September 03, 2008, 08:52:34 PM

Alex,

I also understand the issue is more one of "Drugs" and not an issue of "Doctors" it is just that the title of Doctor is attached to the people authorized to give them out. I will be having both my knees replaced soon. I don't think Linny or anyone else here would tell me not to have the medication to put me under, or anything needed to fight infection etc. I think all are in agreement that the work of Surgeons & Doctors are a gift from God. And I don't believe anyone would advise me to live the rest of my life in pain, without the ability to walk!

I can't speak for others, but what I think Linny is trying to strongly encourage us to do, is not put our complete trust in any Man. Even a Doctor! We all know what that got us with Preachers, Teachers, Policemen, Judges, Senators...I think you get my point! Although we respect their intellect & Study, they still put their pants on one foot at a time!

Sometimes it may appear that people are "Demonizing" Doctors, and that, I think is wrong, rather the intent should be to humanize them. It's harmful when we stereotype people. To pass a tree, and say in your mind that's a tree, stops you from really knowing what is growing out of the ground. Does it flower, does it bear fruit, is it alive, how tall will it grow. When we throw a label on something, our spirit stops learning about it!

Do we know there is selfish & evil intent in the Medical field,...Duh....is man there? :-\ But if we trust God ...

I admire your chosen profession Alex, and I believe more good has come from it than not. No body has it all figured out, we adjusted our understanding of truth in scriptures from a wonderful roofer from Miami. Not a theologian with several degrees & doctorates. Don't dismiss everything out right about healing the body in a more natural way.

Also, try and forgive those who have had terrible experiences with Doctors and are venting out their fustration. They need to be validated, without conceeding to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. They aren't against you, they are hurting and don't want to see others hurt!

If I have assumed wrong, please correct me!
Brenda

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: lilitalienboi16 on September 03, 2008, 09:16:40 PM

Quote from: OBrenda on September 03, 2008, 08:52:34 PM

Alex,

I also understand the issue is more one of "Drugs" and not an issue of "Doctors" it is just that the title of Doctor is attached to the people authorized to give them out. I will be having both my knees replaced soon. I don't think Linny or anyone else here would tell me not to have the medication to put me under, or anything needed to fight infection etc. I think all are in agreement that the work of Surgeons & Doctors are a gift from God. And I don't believe anyone would advise me to live the rest of my life in pain, without the ability to walk!

I can't speak for others, but what I think Linny is trying to strongly encourage us to do, is not put our complete trust in any Man. Even a Doctor! We all know what that got us with Preachers, Teachers, Policemen, Judges, Senators...I think you get my point! Although we respect their intellect & Study, they still put their pants on one foot at a time!

Sometimes it may appear that people are "Demonizing" Doctors, and that, I think is wrong, rather the intent should be to humanize them. It's harmful when we stereotype people. To pass a tree, and say in your mind that's a tree, stops you from really knowing what is growing out of the ground. Does it flower, does it bear fruit, is it alive, how tall will it grow. When we throw a label on something, our spirit stops learning about it!

Do we know there is selfish & evil intent in the Medical field,...Duh....is man there? :-\ But if we trust God ...

I admire your chosen profession Alex, and I believe more good has come from it than not. No body has it all figured out, we adjusted our understanding of truth in scriptures from a wonderful roofer from Miami. Not a theologian with several degrees & doctorates. Don't dismiss everything out right about healing the body in a more natural way.

Also, try and forgive those who have had terrible experiences with Doctors and are venting out their fustration. They need to be validated, without conceeding to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. They aren't against you, they are hurting and don't want to see others hurt!

If I have assumed wrong, please correct me!
Brenda

Nope, you saw right through. I'm sorry for getting so into it. You're right, they are trying to huminize the doctors and not demonize them, sometimes the two seem almost one.. it's hard to see what is what.

Yes, i agree that all doctors do is a gift from God and i would never ever claim to know anything without Him. I also agree that their is evil in the medical field because man is their, and man is very carnal and selfish. However, i don't think that this is the majority, but rather the minority. For the most part i think doctors have good intentions and trying to help people with the knowledge God has so graciously granted them abouit the physical world, wether they know this or not.

Yes never put your complete trust in man, i agree, trust God completely. I am in 100% agreement with this i think just about everything you said.

I know, i'll never make it into the medical field unless the divine Hand of God be upon me, otherwise, it's far to much work, far to many things to learn, far to many people to compete against for me to ever make. Yet i saw my faith tried just this passed week over an experienc ehaving to do with my school, and many people are teling me that with my grades [2.9 average atm] i won't get anywhere, but i have the heart and i trust in God! SO His will be done.

I guess i should apoligize.. i'm sorry for those i have offended, i guess i was just offended myself, but it's true, no one can offend me, xcept me.

Thank you brenda and kat as well, for the gentle nudge on the shoulder.

God bless you all,

Alex

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Linny on September 04, 2008, 01:57:47 AM

Alex, I apologize for any offense I may have caused to you. I understand the passion we have for the things we believe in and want to do with our lives.

Once upon a time, I was devoted to the field of Psychology, then to the nursing field and in nursing school. Then I was devoted to the field of public education, moving to private education, and now to home school education. What Brenda said so well, was so true. Life hits us hard as we grow older and learn more and experience more. When we have been harmed by those that we put our trust in, we want to spare others that hurt.

It isn't about individual people but about a system set up by mankind and run by greed. So the people who have great intentions to help and want to help are not the problem. It is no different than any other man-made system that has been corrupted. The church, the educational system, sports, government, you name it.

The world and her ways are the problem.

We need doctors who care and who are open to learning truths and are willing to go against the grain if need be. A BT doctor would, I think, be automatically more open-minded than most other people, don't you think??

Brenda! My poor sweetie had to have 2 knee surgeries in 5 months! No drugs? Please! He didn't stay on them for long (too addictive) but he wouldn't have made it through the first 2 days without them. And neither would I! ::)

Lin

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: OBrenda on September 04, 2008, 04:13:10 PM

Quote from: Linny on September 03, 2008, 12:37:56 PM

Brenda,
Tell me if I am wrong but I am wondering if what you posted about the
Epigenetic Therapy is a lot like the following.
I believe that we are born with certain genetic factors that predispose us to certain disease. Some are born with tendencies towards heart disease and others to cancer, etc.
But with environmental factors being different or changed, we can alter what we were born with to some extent. Meaning, if we eat and live exactly as our parents, we will have the same diseases. But if we change our environment from what we eat to how we move and the chemicals we are exposed to, we can alter that.

My babies were fed completely differently than most children and I can see now at age 10 and 7 how that has affected their state of health.
They just don't catch anything. Each gets a 24 hour cold about once or twice a year. It is amazing to see.

Would you say this is what the program you watched was saying?
It sounds very interesting...

In answer to Linny,

I wish they had the complete program to watch but this gives a good chunk of it....

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3411/02.html

I think it is saying to me....Cause and effect....which we already believe here at BT!
But the effects of our health have many avenues beyond just our choices,
Our Health is effected by generations before us.
And the choices we make will effect our children & granchildren.
And there are things that have effects that are beyond our control.

As You are already doing, we need to the best of our ability, make the best choices...
and leave the rest up to God.

What did you get out of it?
Brenda

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Linny on September 04, 2008, 06:26:10 PM

Thanks Brenda, I'll click on that later and watch it all. But it seems to be what I was thinking.

I had read studies that looked at mice generations fed well vs. fed badly. The poorly fed ones had babies that got sicklier and sicklier with each generation. Then they would start feeding them better and watch each generation improve.

I've read that people in our generation tend to get their parent's diseases about 10-20 years sooner.

That is why I have worked so hard to change my kids diets/environment for the better. I am hoping that they will continue this with their own and we'll turn around some of the nasty diseases my parents deal with now.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Kat on September 05, 2008, 11:14:51 AM

Hi Brenda and Lin,

I've been reading along and the pass generations certainly have effected what our bodies are prone to have go wrong. But I'm with you Lin in that I'm really beginning to understand that we can make a major difference with our diets/environment.

The illness that Ray is going through and that the diet he is on now has caused me to check into body pH and I see it as extremely important in maintaining good health. If we keep our body within the proper pH range, this wonderful body we have is able to employ it's own disease fighting defences and fight off most anything.

The alkaline forming foods that should be high on our list of consumption are vegetables like asparagus, artichokes, lettuce, onion, peas, spinach, carrots, green beans, and broccoli, to name a few. Fruits include watermelon (one of the highest alkaline forming fruits), lemon (another high one), tomato, avocado, and grapefruit. Other alkaline forming foods are sprouts, legumes, nuts, seeds, herbal tea, and vegetable juice. The key is to go with FRESH foods as much as possible. Drink lots of water it is neutral and flashes the acid out of our system.

But to maintain pH balance, you should eat a minimal amount of acid forming foods. Examples of these foods are meats, poultry, most seafood, sweets, white bread, white pasta, chocolate, coffee, soda, fruit juice, and most oils. A very important thing to understand is that all processed foods are acid forming. You don't have to totally avoid eating these foods, but keep these foods within the 20-25 percent proportion of your diet. These list do seem to vary from one site to the other and how a food is processed can cause it to be more acid forming.

I was totally ignorant to this, before Ray's illness. Now I just feel this is so important to understand. Just making a few changes to your diet can help a great deal. Just thought I would post this for those who might be interested.

mercy, peace and love
Kathy

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Samson on September 05, 2008, 01:08:51 PM

Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on September 03, 2008, 06:17:09 PM

I can't believe all this talk about don't listen to this doctor and don't listen to that doctor is still going on. Do you guys know the amount of studying and schooling it takes to become a medical doctor? Your doctor isn't an idiot, and if i was you i would listen to him. Yes their are bad doctors out their, but that doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the dirty bathwater now does it? Bad apple in every basket, but for the most part, 90% of doctors, if not more, are good doctors who know what they are talking about. They tell you things not because they don't know what their talking about, but because they genuinely believe it is in your best interested and for YOUR health.

Just curiouse, are any of you Medical doctors in here? If so, than by all means please give us your input.

God bless,

Alex

Hello Alex,

The Discussion of Nutrition and how certain Macronutrients(Proteins, Carbohydrates and Fats) affect ones health and in some cases how these Macronutrients stimulate ones appetite doesn't fully enter the realm of a Medical Doctor. If the Doctors discipline is in Nutrition, like Dr. Atkins and others, they are more educated and equipped to handle these issues. Actually Dr. Atkins was a Cardiologist firstly. I appreciate and respect your hard work and focus towards eventually becoming a Medical Doctor. If my memory serves me correctly, in Dr. Atkins original Low Carb book written in the early 1970's, he mentions the great influence that the Cereal and Food Industry uses to persuade Doctors to malign the eating of eggs and Protein foods in general, especially Proteins that have a high fat content, attempting to prove that eating dietary Cholesterol would cause an increase in their serum Cholesterol and Triglycerides(High Density & Low Density Lipoproteins). The Food Industry in General, especially the Cereal Industry pays handsomely to Nutritionists and some Medical Doctors to do research to support their eating cereal and avoiding foods that contain Dietary Fats and Cholesterol. Cholesterol is technically not even a fat, it's a natural Steroid Hormone as contained in Egg Yolks. Actually Genetics, too much stress, smoking and too much sugar(glucose, fructose, dextrose, corn syrup and any word that ends with ose, foodwise) causes a rise in Cholesterol Levels. Of course regular exercise will help to minimize some of the effects from ones dietary intake.

The Traditional Formula of eating 55-60%(Carbohydrate, mostly complex), 20%(Protein), 20%(Fats) is probably sound from a Nutritious Diet point of view, especially when coming from Natural Sources, however in my Post, I was focusing on how many people with weight problems can't tolerate too many Carbohydrates of any kind, in that THEIR APPETITES ARE OVERLY STIMULATED TO THE POINT, THEY CAN'T CONTROL THEIR HUNGER and it has nothing to do with willpower, because they are overwhelmed by their hunger pangs for food.

From a Biochemical point of view, as Mike Mentzer(he studied Medicine & Nutrition, Premed) has stated and many others, A CALORIE IS A CALORIE, aside from the nutrition health of it. What I mean by that is that if anyone consumes less calories then what the Body needs for energy, repair and growth, they will lose weight, so what happens is that those that can't tolerate too much sugar, when their predominate intake is made of Proteins and Fats, their appetite will decrease, because of the satiating effect that Fats and Proteins have on their appetites and they will consume less total calories causing them to eventually lose weight without so much suffering.

It should be understood that Dr. Atkins isn't recommending that everyone stays at 10 grams of dietary carbohydrates or less for the rest of their lives, only a small percentage of people who have a high intolerance for Carbs of any kind; everyone else should gradually add Carbs until they reach the level where they don't gain or lose weight, for some fortunate people, that's 100 grams daily(mostly the healthy carbs).

None of the above is meant as criticism of Medical Doctors or anyone for that matter, but to emphasize that Politics and money are behind some of these Nutritional persuasions. Undoubtedly, their are emotional and cultural factors influencing ones eating habits.

More than enough said, Kind regards, Samson.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: carol v on September 05, 2008, 01:41:47 PM

Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on September 03, 2008, 07:58:54 PM

Quote from: Linny on September 03, 2008, 06:39:54 PM
I'm sorry Alex but we have been talking about a lot of things on this thread and I even went back on this whole page and never saw once "don't listen to this doctor and don't listen to that doctor."

We are just talking about natural ways to find healing using all the things God has given us.

If you choose to use doctors, then go for it. It is your right to do so. Just as it is my right to read for myself and try other things.

By the way, I have gotten a lot of my information, especially regarding child issues, from a Pediatric doctor with 30 years experience who teaches when you need a doctor, and when you don't. It was his very educated opinion that we have used doctors way too much and to our detriment.

Bless you,
Lin

Carol V wrote; "PLEASE -- don't listen to that doctor"

Edit: Sorry carol V, i'm not trying to pick on your or anything.. simply showing LIN that i had reason for what i said.

ALEX QUIT PICKING ON ME ;D

I was talking about one specific doctor Alex who told Brenda how low carbing would KILL her.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Beloved on September 05, 2008, 04:47:46 PM

I have been trying to avoid this topic somewhat. Thanks Brenda for the point for humanizing docotors. I get so tired of these types of discussions some times.

I was just talking to someone in alternative medicine about the field of medicine.

Guess what folks there is no simple solution.

Everything people have said has some element of truth but what is lacking is complete understanding.

The physical working of the world are very complex, many people make a statement and then tend to have that statement blanket the whole.

Rather that point out any made here, I want to discuss one I heard on the news this week.
Does eating/drinking grapefruit cause breast cancer?

The answer is yes and no. But when you read this particular persons response there are many unspoken assumptions in the persons answer. What he did not discuss is:

Almost everything you take into your body has to be metabolized. Your digestive tract even though hidden, is an external organ like your skin. It has an opening the mouth and an exit the anus. Jesus spoke of this you remember. It is an interface. The gut is where things taken are internalized.

Grapefruit has a unique quality in that it can induce (change the way your liver works) enzymes (chemicals that cause chemical reactions) . Most of the time grapefruit slows one particular P450 enzyme (they do not have names but numbers CYP** UGT*** too complex to teach here) in the liver. This particular P450 is used to metabolize various substances...hormone digoxin and many others things . It depends on how much and how often you drink it for one.

Now lets say you are taking BCP or Hormone replacement or are producing a little too much estrogen...then eating grapefruit regularly will cause these compound to accumulate. One drink of alcohol can raise hormone replacement 500% Grapefruit does this to a little less extent than alcohol. The levels of hormone raises with each dose,

Now if you have liver cells that has mutated this P450 gene that too will make you susceptible to estrogen you could get cancer of the breast or uterus. There are many other genes in the body that do other things with estrogen that can cause this cancer effect also.

Even if you do not eat grapefruit you could have a mutation and produce too little P450 and get the same effect and never ever drink grapefruit. Then there is epigenic which actually has to do with the 'gene cards you were dealt with at birth' and this is how the environment impacts you as an individual.

It is impossible for any man to monitor all the things in any persons body. We have some computers to help but even these are not enough. We can now examine people genes for their metabolic capabilities (poor responder or excess burners) That is why people respond differently to the same drug. These gene tests are not cheap and may not be covered by insurance.

The problem today is time and money, no doctor has the time to thouroughly search your condition even though that doctor has studied and knows how the body and these drugs works.

On the other side the individual patient does not have this same training and cannot do it for themselves, alternative medicine does not provide as deep as training regarding drugs or environmental interaction and orthodox medicine cannot even keep up with even its own research data and new findings even in this day of computers.

Someone mentioned that poor diet is bad, science has shown over and over that animals and people live longer if they are fed restricted diets less food daily. In one way today's diets are over abundant things like calories etc in other ways it lacks certain nutritions depending on the person's choice of food.

Certain foods and certain medications and conditions can also deplete some nutritive substances, example metformin can deplete Vitamin B12. If you lack B12 then certain chemical reaction do not work as well. it is like a big web everyhting is connected to something else.

Today medical model and reimbursement by insurance make it impossible to spend the time to check every aspect out. Most medical offices spend huge amounts on personnel just to process the paperwork.

I subscribe to a computer program where I can enter foods and herbs and drugs and see the cross reactions, even your pharmacist can't do this, they just analyze the interaction of drugs you are taking. Guess what Walgreen does not know the drugs you are getting from Walmart or the over the counter stuff or supplements you take, let alone the foods you eat. Are you gaining a perspective on a little of the complexity yet?

The stuff (food OTC , drugs environmental chemical etc etc etc) going into the body, and the persons genes and the disease they have all play a role in health.

No man can fathom this. Satan and the world continue to mess with God's creation.

The Scriptures talk about vegetarian diets in the past but the world is now more corrupt, the soils are depleted of nutrients and there are too many confounding things. The species of plants we grow for food have changed and we eat different . Who in the world had citrus year round? Chemical and things are applied to plants , even organically grown foods may have problems with its nutrient content.

I believe that a high vegetarian diet is a good choice, but beans and rice though a vegan diet do not always cut it either. Its protein source are not effective as meat/chick' eggs for B12 and iron. Our bodies are made to digest meat. Jesus ate meat and fish and he talked about giving eggs to his children. This is physical and it has spiritual meaning also.

I have taken courses and I have read and bought books and have research all the aspects alternative medicine and anti aging medicine, toxicology etc and found even these lacking...

Even alternative medicine are after money just like orthodox medicine and the church....their stuff is dirt cheap to produce, no FDA etc...then why the high prices for most of it?

My advice is to approach all with discernment, ask questions, look things up, we have the internet. If you take antibiotics be sure to take a probiotic...replenish the good germs in your gut ....you need them in your gut, they actually metabolize some of things and produce needed things...

Caution eat a small portion of anything that may have antibiotics in it...like meat and dairy. All you need is a size of a deck of cards, one oz of cheese a little dairy etc...not the 18 oz T-Bone that the world wants t serve you. Vary you diet, always choose local and in season if you can, grow some stuff yourselves. eat all kinds of food, Did you know that sauerkraut was a good source of Vitamin C in the past when people did not have citrus and other things we have today. .

I hope that you can now see that the correct answer to the question I posed about grapefruit and breast cancer is .......it DEPENDS......on a whole lot of things.

Oh that one doctor who said that it would kill you...is making a blanket statement....

You have no idea how frustrated I can get because medicine (alternative and orthodox) is really in many ways like the Babylonian church. They are corrupt and yes they too are blind and deaf. As a physician I have to keep this idol of the heart (medicine) in check too.

No arguments in me......God is in control and I will REST in that.

beloved

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Kat on September 05, 2008, 05:40:33 PM

Hi Beloved,

Thank you for your input on this, that was some really good advices. It's good to hear from someone that has put all those years into studying these things.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Beloved on September 05, 2008, 05:41:17 PM

here is a little copy form when I did the drug interactio

Note #3 Grapefruit Juice
CYP3A is present in the gut as well as the liver. Grapefruit juice inhibits gut CYP3A if given as 1 double-strength eight ounce glass and will inhibit liver CYP3A if given as three double-strength glasses. If given as one double strength glass, like any CYP inhibitor, it will particularly affect drugs that are preferentially metabolized in the gut. When grapefruit juice interacts with a drug, the inhibition occurs immediately if the grapefruit juice dose is high enough. Although effects can last up to 3 days after grapefruit juice intake, effects are especially predictable when grapefruit juice is consumed along with the oral dose of drug. CYP3A inhibition not only depends on the type of grapefruit juice (the inhibitor, with white grapefruit juice being a better inhibitor than pink and both, mechanism-based inhibitors) but also how much CYP3A is present. As little as 6-8 ounces of grapefruit juice taken WITH a high first pass substrate of CYP3A can substantially alter pharmacokinetics. GFJ also inhibits P-gps other transporters and esterased, and this adds to the effect.

Please note that the program assumes the co-drug is metabolized via the gut. As a result, the program may predict a drug interaction that may not occur if a drug is a liver substrate. If a drug is known to be metabolized in the gut, it is listed as an intestinal 3A substrate. As research becomes available, data will be added to the program.

This is just to show you how this one food wroks, the Gen Rx program says there is 75 to 150 % increase but it really depends on the amount and duration of taking grapefruit in.

So if your genes are normal then you can see, taking it in moderation and not taking it daily would be better. If your genes are abnormal this program can adjust for that too. but you have to do the test.

beloved

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: OBrenda on September 05, 2008, 06:16:10 PM

YW Beloved,

One of the parts of the epigeome program I couldn't find for people to watch, was a study they did over several generations of people. What they found was that those people who had great grandparents that lived through famine, where more healthy than, people who had grandparents who ate plenty of nutritious food.

Doesn't make any sense, but it goes along with what Beloved said about eating less...
Someone mentioned that poor diet is bad, science has shown over and over that animals and people live longer if they are fed restricted diets less food daily.

It's confussing, I guess because it's complicated by so many unseen things. I think for my part I will stick with the low carb diet that Samson & Carol have encouraged me with. It is what makes me feel best, and eat less. I would like to check my PH balance for peace of mind.

Learned lots of things here with people putting a lot of time and heart into it.

Alex....I'm sure all will pray for those grades as God directs your path...

;D ;D ;D
Brenda

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: KristaD on September 05, 2008, 06:52:07 PM

Quote from: OBrenda on September 05, 2008, 06:16:10 PM

One of the parts of the epigeome program I couldn't find for people to watch, was a study they did over several generations of people. What they found was that those people who had great grandparents that lived through famine, where more healthy than, people who had grandparents who ate plenty of nutritious food.

Doesn't make any sense, but it goes along with what Beloved said about eating less...

It makes perfect sense because the people that survived a famine would be the healthiest people as the sickly people would die without proper nutrition. So the offspring of the famine survivors would be more healthy because the received the healthy genes from their ancestors. The people that ate nutritious foods would be a toss up because more people (healthy AND sickly) would survive and produce offspring that would inherit healthy AND sickly genes. The more unhealthy people survive the more their ailments will be seen in future generations.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Beloved on September 05, 2008, 07:29:50 PM

Krista though your explanation could explain some survival advantages, not all animals feed alike, pecking order also comes into play the alpha female and male always get first dibs, the more agressive get theirs and then there is the begging size at the time of famine the runt of the litter often loses.

In the longevity studies with animals ALL were all gentically equal, the only thing that differed was the amount of food in the diet. These studies have been repeated in different species also.

They think the teleomere the ends of the chromosomes are somehow protected. The shorter the telomere the shorter the life. :D No they have not found anything yet that does this but they are looking for one.

Also hormone levels/ reporduction and also stress can adversely effect longevity. These make sence, there is a lot of energy needed to sustain both of these things

beloved

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: KristaD on September 05, 2008, 08:09:07 PM

I was not arguing what you stated Beloved. I was just pointing out that survival of the fitest has a lot to do with what Brenda had said about famine survivors. I do not believe their descendants were healthier because they ate less, I beileve they were healthier because the unhealthy people died rathere than passing on their genes. The people Brenda spoke of were not genetically equal nor were they animals in a controlled study so it's very hard to compare the two. Those studies may indeed be true but I don't think that is what caused the outcome from the study Brenda sited as the people going through famine were most likely not receiving much nourishment from what they ate and nourishment is the most important thing to maintaining health not just eating less.

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: Beloved on September 05, 2008, 08:48:52 PM

I do not see where what you say is argumentative, rather we are all just looking at the problem with a different view. We are like the four blind men and the elephant, explaining our view.

It is known that survivors of concentration and POW camps, famine etc , tend to live longer, what is hard to compare is the groups beginning weight and medical conditions, someone with heart disease who now find themselves with has no medications will not survive the ordeal.

It is also why you do not want to be in the lower weight limit, i.e very low body fat level . When put through a famine the organs that will support the body will be muscle heart kidney. Over time there function will be diminished. Those with some body fat will work on their fat for awhile before going to these organs. Many of the people did develop nutritional deficiencies, scurvy etc.

On the other hand If the individual were obese and put through this, then the physical stress of hard labor would effect them adversely. The good side is that type 2 diabetes and High Blood pressure would be improved. They could come out in better shape then they went in. I do not think there were many like this then but today there would be many in this category.

It is very hard to compare and draw too many conclusions from famine survivors. We do know that being normal weight does allow for longer life, so these ordeals could have helped them from gaining excess weight. At any point , all of this shows us that we all need to strive for balance and high quality food.

Like Kat and her post on Gardening...the only way you can be sure of your food is to grow it yourself. This way you know the soil and conditions of growth. Another reason to compost it is "a Good thing". Perhaps a reason God told his people to let the land rest for a year...let the growth that season become compost for the next crop.

For some people a low carb diet just pushes the chemistry in one direction. The body doesn't get excessive calories and they are more protein and fat then they body has to manufacture glucose and feed the body, if the calories and carbs are high, then the body is very efficient at storing this in the form of fat, it is most energy efficient chemistry of the body. That is what happens in times of plenty. the bears and hibernators depend on it.

mmmm I need to hibernate for a year that way I do not have to avoid foods like "Imagine Whirld Piece" by Ben and Jerry, pasta bread etc. ;D

beloved

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: iris on September 05, 2008, 09:18:31 PM

Hi Beloved,

That was so interesting.

In fact, this whole thread had been very interesting.

I think what all this shows is that its all up to God.

Iris

Title: Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
Post by: KristaD on September 05, 2008, 09:27:45 PM

All very true Beloved :).

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