In all the studies I have done about Gehenna, Hades and Sheol, I am still left with a question mark.
We know the Greek words Hades and Gehenna, but do we know if Jesus used these terms?
Was the Greek words Gehenna and Hades implemented in the Aramaic language Jesus spoke,
or did he use the old Hebrew words when he preached his Sermon on the Mount and told the parable of Lazarus and the rich man?
Gina I'm not sure if there were so many listeners when Jesus gave Sermon on the Mount. Mat 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
Mat 5:2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
Looks like he was only preachint to his disciples
Thanks a lot Samson for your information. I was not aware that Septuginta was in use in Israel at the time of Jesus. I know it was This was new information to me. I know it was written 200 years BC, but just thought it was used among the Jews in diaspora.
I agree with you on that onelovedread
This is another point that contradicts that Jesus talks about "hell" in the Sermon on the Mount. If he really wanted to warn people against an eternal damnation, why should he not tell this to all the people
I have never been a part of any of this world's church ( false ) system. The Father called me from my mothers womb. I was born to know the truth. ( as all of the elect of God are ). He has already determined our path, who, when , where, etc. So it matters not how we got to where we are. All that matters is that we are here.
'fraid not.
Doug, he didn't even know who Jesus Christ was:
Matt. 11:2-3 When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples to ask him, "Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?"
The Comforter is another name for God's spirit. It was "poured out" at the time of pentecost. That doesn't mean that no one ever had the Holy Spirit before.
In my opinion they do not apply to the Holy Spirit indwelling someone or who will or will not be in the first resurrection.
Thanks Kat, and Gina. You kinda tag-teamed me there.......wooaa, just getting up now, ok , up. Seriously though, thanks to all of you for your input. I don't quite know what to say Kat. I could say something like, " Let he who thinks he stands take heed, lest he falls ", but I dont think thats appropriate. I could tell you all about my life, but I dont want to bore you either. And besides I dont think you would believe me anyway. All I can do is ask you if you believe that all the truth that God revealed to Ray is all there is to know and understand ? And do you suppose that Ray is the only person that God has called to teach them ? Please do not think that I am one to teach, I would never assume that title and position. "title and position", now that reminds me of another question. Have any of you been given any understanding of the "kingdom (government) of God" as it pertains to such ? Or do you believe that we will all be the same somehow ? Not that we are all the same now, but thats irrelevant . ( or is it ?). Just curious, honestly.
It is my understanding that when Christ spoke of the first being last and the last first, He was not speaking of order, as in the resurrecton from the dead. But that He was speaking of position in the Kingdom. We have many scriptures that tell us that most (if not all) of the OT "saints" received God's Spirit (Christ), and will be there. But many (if not most) of them will not be "first" in terms of position. Even as much as they endured and went through, they are not as qualified to rule over this earth as Gods elect today and future, for the simple reason, among others, that they lived in a different age.|
Also do you believe that the "church" started with Christ, or do you suppose it has always existed ? Like the "church in the wilderness" for example ? Honestly, I'm just trying to understand better. Thats all I have ever wanted to do...... since birth, honestly . I have a lot of questions Kat, I always have. And the fact that God blessed me enough to ask them and to know and understand the answers to many.......from birth, without any of this worlds false indoctrination, I cannot appologize for. Maybe I am a misfit, or oddball somehow, I dont know. Or maybe a "virgin" ?
In love, David
Note that both Jn 7:39 and Acts 1:8 speak of that which is given/received after Christ's ascension/glorification. But Acts 1:8 makes it clear that it is "power". That tells us that it is the gifts from the Holy Spirit and it was fulfilled after Christ's ascension as we read in Acts 2:4, "All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit moved them."
In other words Jn 7:39 is speaking of gifts from the Holy Spirit that were received on the day of Pentecost. When those gifts were received the result was that they spoke in tongues. In my opinion, the gifts from the Holy Spirit have nothing at all to do with salvation.
Nowhere do we read that the Comforter gives eternal life. He does many things, but don't forget He comes to believers, i.e. those who are already converted, He does not come to convert them.
In my opinion, i believe there are several difficulties with the belief that comes with the understanding that one must have the Holy Spirit in order to be "saved" (which I believe we both agree that many are called but few are chosen) and He "was not given until Pentecost."
It is my understanding that when Christ spoke of the first being last and the last first, He was not speaking of order, as in the Resurrection from the dead. But that He was speaking of position in the Kingdom. We have many scriptures that tell us that most (if not all) of the OT "saints" received God's Spirit (Christ), and will be there. But many (if not most) of them will not be "first" in terms of position. Even as much as they endured and went through, they are not as qualified to rule over this earth as Gods elect today and future, for the simple reason, among others, that they lived in a different age.|
Thank you Gina for your understanding. But I did not answer your other question about when I "left my first love"...and by that I understand you to mean when did I leave or come out of this worlds false apostacy. I didn't, because I was never in it. So I would like to know when did the litteral, physical church at Ephesus, the one that received John's letter personally, the ones that were meeting in secret in fear of their very lives, when did they leave an apostate system ? Oh, I know "anti-christianity " ( in place of christ ) was around then, but it was not organized to any point. And certainly not a world wide force. So what "love " did they leave.......their "first love" at that.
What I "hear" when I read the letter is Christ warning them of turning away from the TRUTH, and warning them to repent of it. This has been the problem with Gods "church" from the beginning and the ages since. They allowed false teaching (doctrine) to come in and accepted it as truth. Christ and all the apostles warned of this throughout the new testament. I know what you understand, but to leave ones first love is to leave the Truth . And I have done that defore, not as in a group, but individually, personally, as has all before. When we do that we leave Him (The Truth) and we leave "Love" ( what God is ). Then we must repent of it. " ...and God will send them ( the apostate system ) strong delusion, because they received not the LOVE OF THE TRUTH " They did not receive it because it was not offered them. They are deaf and blind, and are because God purposed them to be. They are in "darkness" as Kat commented. And I know God calls many out of this false system......like in Revelation when He told His servants to go out and beat the bushes, so to speak.
Sorry for the windbagging, I will leave you in peace.
If it would be God's will for me to be an elect at the first resurrection, I don't feel that I could in any way preside over and teach, let's say, those saints mentioned in Hebrews 11.
When all of mankind is born, that person is given the breath of life to make him a living person. At the same time, God gives that person, spirit, to make him a living soul. That spirit God gives to all humans is from Him... God. That spirit has to be Holy because it is from God. Each person has a small portion of God's Holy Spirit. Albeit not much, but some.
Now I am having a hard time understanding why for instance Abraham, Isaac and Joseph (not being Jews but Gentiles) were not of God's elect and therefore not at the first resurrection.
We read in Heb 11:39-40, "These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect."
Was this promise these faithful saints didn't receive in this verse that of receiving the Holy Spirit or that of obtaining the first resurrection after death?
I don't think Matthew 11:11 is stating that John will not be in the first resurrection. Jesus is saying that as great as John is (as a mortal imperfect man) the least in the Kingdom of heaven will be even greater. Jesus is making a comparison statement here. A comparison of how even though John was great as a carnal minded human the spiritual greatness of those in the kingdom of heaven is greater than all he did .