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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Dennis Vogel on December 17, 2011, 12:36:35 PM

Title: New Article Posted
Post by: Dennis Vogel on December 17, 2011, 12:36:35 PM
http://bible-truths.com/WhyGodLovesYou.htm (http://bible-truths.com/WhyGodLovesYou.htm)
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Gina on December 17, 2011, 01:09:42 PM
Thanks, Dennis and Ray!
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on December 17, 2011, 01:36:59 PM


Thank you for unveiling God's secret Ray!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXct0xoVru0&feature=related
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Gina on December 17, 2011, 01:58:22 PM
Maybe I should ask Ray this, but I guess I don't understand how God hates sinners and yet loves us now, even though we still sin.  Is it because we don't sin willfully?  Eve didn't appear to sin willfully--she was tricked, right?  Ah, I'm having a hard time understanding this.  I know I'm still sinning and sometimes often and willfully.  Maybe I should ask Ray, but I'll gladly listen to anyone who wants to offer me some words of wisdom.  I get scared when I read stuff like that because I feel like I'm going to be punished.

Also, what happened to "mercy triumphs over judgment"?  I thought it was God's mercy (kindness?) that leads (drags) us to repentance, not His judgment.   Are judgment and kindness one and the same?
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on December 17, 2011, 02:12:50 PM


Maybe not "tricked" and better perhaps to think Eve was immature in the discernment between good and evil...~ :)

If one sins willfully...liking to sin...then the consequences of sin, being death and all associations to and with death, are not sufficiently burned out yet! ~ :D

Judgement is not reserved exclusively for the wicked. Judgment has both a positive and a negative side. That is judgment itself contains both. The result of the two faces of judgment, however, I a happy to report, will not perpetuate the dualmasks of comedy and tragedy for all eternity, but rather a "smiley face" for all..LOF2
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Gina on December 17, 2011, 03:00:58 PM
Thanks, Deb.  I feel a lot better. 
God grant me the ability to....
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Gina on December 17, 2011, 03:29:33 PM
This verse is comforting when we fail the test:

Hebrews: 4:15For we do not have a High Priest Who is unable to understand and sympathize and have a shared feeling with our weaknesses and infirmities and liability to the assaults of temptation, but One Who has been tempted in every respect as we are, yet without sinning.

    16Let us then fearlessly and confidently and boldly draw near to the throne of grace (the throne of God's unmerited favor to us sinners), that we may receive mercy [for our failures] and find grace to help in good time for every need [appropriate help and well-timed help, coming just when we need it].
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on December 17, 2011, 04:01:59 PM

This too ~ ;D

Heb 8:11  And they shall not each man teach his neighbor, and each man his brother, saying, Know the Lord, for all shall know Me, from the least to the greatest.

Jer 31:34  And they shall no more teach each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, Know Jehovah; for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says Jehovah. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sins no more.
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on December 17, 2011, 04:05:45 PM


God's heart and mind is set on uniqueness, variety, and differences.  http://bible-truths.com/WhyGodLovesYou.htm
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Gina on December 17, 2011, 04:47:52 PM
Quote
There is a solution to why Christ died for US SINNERS, and OUR SINS -- two things which God hates.

Notice carefully, that Rom. 5:8 does not say that God loves sinners, or loves us while we are yet sinners. It says that God "commends His love toward us... while yet sinners."

"Commend" means to "introduce or exhibit." Yes, God "introduces" His love toward sinners while they are yet sinners, but He does not actually love them while they are sinning. God cannot both hate sinners (which many Scriptures attest to including those quoted above), and love sinners at the same time. God's Word does not contradict. God's love for humanity before the cross, resided in the fact that all will be brought to repentance due to His workmanship, and God sees things not only as they are, but as they WILL BE. It was what God saw that man would BE, in the future after repentance, that He loved.

Now I get it.  ::)
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Gina on December 17, 2011, 05:01:19 PM
haha, It pays to not be afraid when reading something.  I missed a lot because of the fear.  It was as if I didn't even read the article.  Sorry about that and for any confusion.
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: mharrell08 on December 17, 2011, 05:32:53 PM
Excerpt from 'Why Does God Love You' (http://bible-truths.com/WhyGodLovesYou.htm):

Reason One:
WHY GOD LOVES THE WORLD

Acts 17:26-28  And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also HIS OFFSPRING.’

There is the answer as to why God loves the world.

The word "offspring" in this verse is from the Greek word, genos (from which we get our word genealogy), which Strong's Greek Lexicon defines as "kin." And kin is "One's relatives, family, kinfolk." Yes, we are of the same race, kin, relatives, and family as God Almighty!
------------------------------------------

Certainly puts this parable in an even better perspective:

Luke 15:11-13, 17-24  Then He said: “A certain man had two sons. And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the portion of goods that falls to me.’ So he divided to them his livelihood. And not many days after, the younger son gathered all together, journeyed to a far country, and there wasted his possessions with prodigal living.

“But when he came to himself, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! I will arise and GO TO MY FATHER, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, and I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants.”’ “And he arose and came to his father. But when he was still a great way off, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and fell on his neck and kissed him. And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight, and am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ 

“But the father said to his servants, ‘Bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet. And bring the fatted calf here and kill it, and let us eat and be merry; for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ And they began to be merry.



2nd Excerpt from 'Why God Loves You' (http://bible-truths.com/WhyGodLovesYou.htm):

Reason Two:
WHY GOD LOVES YOU INDIVIDUALLY

Time and again God informs us that He is Almighty, All-knowing, All wise, All loving, the only Creator, our Redeemer, our Hope, our only Saviour, our heavenly Father, and "beside Him there is no God, and there is none like Him." And this description of God by God is an indicator of how and why God created you....

And the answer is: Your "UNIQUENESS."

What mother could be happy knowing that she would have to give up just one of her children for all eternity? Neither would God be happy knowing that He lost one of His children whom He created to be unique in all the universe. And so, just as the Scriptures tell us that there is "none LIKE Him," there is none like YOU. You are the only person exactly like you on earth!
---------------------------------------------

As does this parable:

Luke 15:4-6  What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’


Think I just found my new favorite paper from Ray. Dennis, tell him great, great job.



Marques
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on December 17, 2011, 05:59:41 PM


Ray:

Joh 2:10  and said to him, "Everyone serves the best wine first, and the cheap kind when people are drunk. But you have kept the best wine until now!" ~
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Gina on December 18, 2011, 01:39:30 AM
Ray gave me permission to post my question and his answer re the above:


From: "Gina" <ginasquitieri@yahoo.com>
To: "Ray Smith" <L.RaySmith@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 11:07:54 AM
Subject: Hi

Hi, Ray,

Thank you for your recent article.

I have a question:  Does God hate me when I am tested and fail miserably?  What will He do to me?
 
 
Dear Gina:  No, Gina, God does not hate you when you are tested and fail.
And how can I say that. Many reasons, not the least of which are the teachings
of Paul where he says:
 

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign [to RULE your life in your

mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

 

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion [that is RULERSHIP,

complete control]over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
It all has to do with your motivation.  Is your desire to please God or to sin and please yourselfnot just occasionally, but as a way of life.  Notice this encouragement from Paul:
 

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your

own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in

you, except ye be reprobates?
 
I don't think you are a "reprobate," Gina. A reprobate is one who is morally unprincipled, not
one who is striving to overcome sin.
 
Take a closer look at the Scriptures I presented which show the attitudes that God hates.
I will just give a few of the obvious ones, but I could go through every one of them:
 
They provoked Him to jealousy with strange gods (Deut. 32:16).
the wicked and him that loves violence His soul hates" (Psalm 11:5)
And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nations which I cast out (Lev. 20:23)
If ye will not hearken unto Me, and will not do all these commandments (Lev. 26:14).
You hate all workers of iniquity..." (Psalm 5:5)   Etc., etc.
 
Do you do these things as a way of life, Gina?  Worship strange gods? love violence?
live like the wicked nations that God cast out? refuse to do all Gods commandments?
Are you a worker of iniquity?  I don't think so.  Listen Gina, once God calls you and you
accept that call then here is your spiritual condition from then on:

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION to them which

are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Hope this strengthens your faith, Gina.
God be with you,
Ray
 

 
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Akira329 on December 18, 2011, 03:10:08 AM
That was an awesome paper!!!
Where do you start??

I am so glad Ray dealt with this contradiction:
Love the sinner, Hate the sin! That never made sense to me but I quoted it often!

I am so glad Ray talked about uniqueness. It was a joy and heartbreak at the same time!LOL
(Hoping I would find a wonderful lady like me!)

This paper was a joy to read!
I have thank Ray for this.
 ;D
Antaiwan
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on December 18, 2011, 03:15:03 AM


It just gets better! :D ;D Love expands.

Gina, thank you for including us in and with the exquisite words of consolation, Truth and Heavenly Majesty our Brother Ray has shared with you. 8)

"Straight from the Throne Room," ~ :)


Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Gina on December 18, 2011, 03:51:34 AM
Deb, you hit the nail on the head with that one!
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on December 18, 2011, 03:55:20 AM


LOL...there's that nail again ROFL...blowing the lid off of the box...who let the dogs out...WHO WHO WHO...Who loves you!

Wow, this is a party and a half!

 ;D
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Joel on December 18, 2011, 10:20:41 PM
Thanks Ray, Wonderful teaching! I am reminded of this verse in Isaiah;

Isaiah 40:1
COMFORT ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: gmik on December 19, 2011, 01:39:53 AM
(Knocking on my head)....there is therefore NOW, NO CONDEMNATION....(repeat, repeating....)

Thanks again Ray (via Gina) for that reminder!!

(it is so wonderful it is almost unbelievable!)
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Rene on December 19, 2011, 11:24:40 AM
Ray gave me permission to post my question and his answer re the above:


Do you do these things as a way of life, Gina?  Worship strange gods? love violence?
live like the wicked nations that God cast out? refuse to do all Gods commandments?
Are you a worker of iniquity?  I don't think so.  Listen Gina, once God calls you and you
accept that call then here is your spiritual condition from then on:

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION to them which



Gina,

Thanks for sharing your email reply from Ray.  These lessons are very encouraging and uplifting, and as the other Gena said, we need these constant reminders.

Rays new paper really touched my heart!  I feel as though I am coming to know our creator more and more and this knowledge adds to my ability to "see" our Creator better and to grow in love for Him.  We are truly blessed. :)

René
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Gina on December 19, 2011, 11:54:09 AM
(Knocking on my head)....there is therefore NOW, NO CONDEMNATION....(repeat, repeating....)

Thanks again Ray (via Gina) for that reminder!!

(it is so wonderful it is almost unbelievable!)

Precisely!  It's like, "Yes, I believe!  Keep helping me with my unbelief..."

Aahhhh!!  There might have been a time, but I would no longer condemn someone who had an honest desire to do the right thing but just couldn't find a way to not do it, ya know?!   Geez.  So why is it so hard for me to believe that God is not condemning me?   It's starting to sink in that God loves us, not just as we are, but because He sees what we will become -- because as Ray said, it's akin to how we love our children through the terrible twos; and I'll add... while cherishing and relishing the day they become a great doctor or something very likeable and honorable.  ;D

You're very welcome, Rene! Muah!
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Craig on December 19, 2011, 01:12:08 PM
I'll take the terrible two's anytime.  Just no more of the terrible teens please.

Craig
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: CEO on December 22, 2011, 04:54:19 PM
Gena

Thankyou for sharing.  I went back to the biblestudy from Feb of 2007 on LOVE.  It is listed under Introductions, Announcements and additonal of Ray's teachings.  The LOVE article in conjunction with this new article makes love abundantly clear.

God commands us to love our enemies- the carnal man is God's enemy- how can God follow his own command and love and yet hate sinners simultaneously ?  The LOVE article solves this 'contradiction'.
The sum of God's word is perfection.

Askseeknock
Charles O

Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: Gina on December 22, 2011, 11:41:26 PM
I know you were replying to Gena (gmik) and not me necessarily, but want to say thanks for that, Charles.  

I was just finished reading the email from today, "Is God a Hypocrite"  http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13736.msg120873.html#new (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13736.msg120873.html#new)

And this captivates me because it appears to be the proper definition of the faith of Jesus Christ":

Ray:
Quote
He acted upon things not as they were at his crucifixion, but as they would be (later) when those same sinners who drove the nails would deeply repent of their sins and evils.

He lived by faith (seeing how things would be later) and not by sight (seeing how they were at his crucifixion).

I remember the Love article, Charles.  I remember Ray said something to the effect, "people can get stupid with this," -- when it comes to "loving thy neighbor," and he went on to give an example of his neighbor who said he would dismantle the bodies of a certain race of people if he caught them stealing something.  Ray said he wouldn't be pals with a person like that, but once in awhile they share their tools, which is a far cry from laughing and joking with each other over a hot meal.

I'm off to read the Love article again.................

(I rambled.  I have a ton of energy at the moment!  ;D)
Title: Re: New Article Posted
Post by: lilitalienboi16 on December 25, 2011, 03:47:37 PM
I havn't read the article yet... but i Just hate the sound of God hating anyone or anything, even hating hitler. I always looked up to God as so much bigger than us that He would never need to resort to something such as hate. Like I said, i havn't read the article yet so maybe I'm hearing this question, or statement that God hates sinners and taking it the wrong way.