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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Nelson Boils on December 03, 2017, 06:14:11 PM
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1 Sam 15:3
"Go now and put Amalek to the sword, putting to the curse all they have, without mercy: put to death every man and woman, every child and BABY AT THE BREAST, every ox and sheep, camel and a@@."
How would you try explain why God commanded the Israelites to kill infants?
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I would keep four things in mind:
1) God is holy and righteous. Any command He gives is righteous. Is anyone going to tell God that He was wrong? haha
2) God dealt with carnal minded people differently in Old Testament times, before Grace and Truth came in Jesus Christ.
3) Romans 13:4 "For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer". Saul was King (in authority), a ruler who did bear the sword, and was God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment.
4) Many people cannot handle these truths. God's will be done.
Dean
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I guess the answer to your question, “How would you try explain why God commanded the Israelites to kill infants?” Could be that the infant Amalekites grow into adults and repopulate and end up corrupting the Israelites.. or they could seek vengeance for the killing of their people..
But I think your question is in regard to the morality of God commanding the killing of infants, yes?
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God knew that the Amalekites would always oppose Israel, that the children of the Amalekites would do it when they grew up, and their descendants too; as we see with Haman in the book of Esther.
Amalekites are not simply threatening a people group with their determination to wipe out Israel, but they are a threat to the salvation plan of God for all other nations.
They weren’t Canaanites. Israel was not a threat to them; Israel was not going to take their land. Israel’s relationship to the Amalekites was like their relationship to the other Edomites when Israel said,
“Please let us pass through your land. We will not pass through field or vineyard, or drink water from a well. We will go along the King’s Highway. We will not turn aside to the right hand or to the left until we have passed through your territory.” (Num 20:17)
First up, who were the Amalekites? What made them so bad?
The Amalekites were the descendants and followers of Amalek, grandson of Esau, brother of Jacob also known as Israel. As such, the Amalekites weren’t total foreigners to God. Esau was the one who had sold his birthright and his part in God’s promise. He had been part of God’s covenant people, but he valued his own appetites more. So the Edomites (Esau’s descendants, including the Amalekites) were people who had opted out en masse
of the covenant which defined God’s people.
But the Amalekites really really didn’t like Israel. At the very birth of the nation of Israel, when they came out of Egypt and were at their most vulnerable, before they even got to Sinai and when they didn’t even have any water, the Amalekites came and attacked them. Israel were forced to fight their very first battle, fighting for their lives against the Amalekites, under the leadership of Moses. After God gave Moses an amazing victory,
Exodus 17 says this...
Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write this as a memorial in a book and recite it in the ears of Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven.” And Moses built an altar and called the name of it, The Lord Is My Banner, saying, “A hand upon the throne of the Lord! The Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation.” (Exod 17:14-16)
The Amalekites attack Israel though.
In Numbers 14:45, they attack Israel again while they are still in the desert.
In Judges 3:13 they join in with the Moabites in attacking Israel.
In Judges 6:3, they invade Israel “whenever the Israelites planted their crops”, and together with the Midianites “devour the produce of the land… and leave no sustenance in Israel and no sheep or ox or donkey” (6:4).
Later in Judges 6 and 7 they invade again and are fought off by Gideon.
looks very much as if it was the Amalekites who were at war with God. Israel has a lot of wars between the time of Moses and the time of Saul, but they never once attack the Amalekites.
Durring all of these attacks on Gods people, were they not killing the children and babies?
The Amalekites show that generation after generation, they are at war with Israel and with God.
The Amalekites are like the bad Terminator in Terminator II – you’ve got to finish the job or he’ll re-form and keep coming after you.
The complete Sovereignty of God...He gives life he takes life and he restoreth life, all for the good of ALL.
Praise God Almighty for your righteous ways and love for us all, in spite of our sinful carnal condition!
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"..morality of God..."Really?
No!
God does for a reason,so I would've like to know why would infants be killed.
According to Google,the meaning of infants:”a schoolchild between the ages of about four and eight."
Other bible translations use "infants," whereas the above translation uses "baby at the breast."
Ok Wanda,thanks for that info.
By the way,1 Sam 15:3 states the Israelites attacking the Amalekites
A child between 4 and 8 is surely not a "baby at the breast."perhaps Google has its definition incorrect.
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"..morality of God..."Really?
No!
God does for a reason,so I would've like to know why would infants be killed.
According to Google,the meaning of infants:”a schoolchild between the ages of about four and eight."
Other bible translations use "infants," whereas the above translation uses "baby at the breast."
Ok Wanda,thanks for that info.
By the way,1 Sam 15:3 states the Israelites attacking the Amalekites
A child between 4 and 8 is surely not a "baby at the breast."perhaps Google has its definition incorrect.
And Samuel said to Saul, “The Lord sent me to anoint you king over his people Israel; now therefore listen to the words of the Lord. Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Sam 15:1‑3)
God is stating what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt.
He is more than justified in his actions to defend his people against these people and their relentless opposition to his purpose, for the complete salvation of ALL!
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Another subtle attack on God from you know who. Seen this many times before.
Brings to mind what Paul wrote. My paraphrase from memory.
"Who are you O man! Does the thing created say to the Creator, 'What are You making?' "
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Yes, the killing of children and suckling babes is one of the most deplorable acts for us to consider, but you cannot look at this honestly, unless you can accept the complete sovereignty of God. This is where all truth is to be found.
John 8:31-33
31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;32And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free.
To me the kind of freedom Jesus is speaking of here, is just about the greatest gift of Gods mercy and Grace, we could ever have.
Allowing us to know him, love him and accept he is in control of EVERYTHING! In a world gone insane. For me, this is HUGE. If he has used his sovereinty for the good of all his glory, I'm totally on board.
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God uses evil for our ultimate good. All the combined evil experiences of mankind cannot compare to the glory He has in store when this journey is finished.
Heb 9:27 And just as it is appointed for people to die once--and after this, judgment--
This includes everyone, men, women and children too. It's been this way from the beginning and will continue this way till the end after which the suffering, death and evil will finally be done away with and destroyed. However, the knowledge of evil we had gained through experience will stay with us for the ages.
This evil experience is pretty rough, and just trusting that God knows what He is doing has been pretty rough for me as well.
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Ok,Wanda,I see what you saying.I didn't read the whole and build up to that verse.
Thanx.
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Ok,Wanda,I see what you saying.I didn't read the whole and build up to that verse.
Thanx.
All is good my brother, hope it helped in some way. :)
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Friends,
I think that I see the concern for "innocent" children in this assignment given to Israel, but I have a statement and a question. It is appointed unto all men to die once so what does it matter when we die?
We send our young men and women into battle with pride and yet we concern ourselves that they die too soon. While we don't seem as concerned about the grief of the parents of those they killed in battle.
This seems to me a little hypocritical. If parents and loved ones don't believe in a resurrection then I can understand the concern and pain that those who grieve are having. But we who know God's will to bring all into His family should perhaps have a more understanding view.
What choice really did Israel have in the heat of battle? Were they going to start an orphanage for thousands of babies and juveniles so they wouldn't starve? Or were they going to adopt them into their own family and deal with the obvious difficulty of defending what they had done to the natural parents of these kids? Wouldn't those children have resented being forced to live with Israel? Wouldn't it have brought trouble to both groups as the months and years passed? God loves us all but God has chosen to lead a chosen few both then and now in this era and knew that they could not be mixed and obey successfully.
Erasing the whole population and reserving them to a better time when Lord Jesus is ruling was the better choice for all concerned was it not?
Indiana Bob
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Hi I-Bob, hope you are well my friend and everyone on BT.
I was looking at the verse Sam. 15:3 and I’m thinking ,,,,,this is no different than battles all over the world, now. I’m sure G. Bush wasn’t the least bit concerned about the children when they destroyed Iraq or any other war then and now. The sacrifice of children is ongoing in many ways.
A subject I’d like to discuss. Another time. Anyway, I have another question after reading this
book of 1 Samuel.
Sam. 4-7
So Saul summoned the people and numbered them in Telaim(why number them)? two hundred thousand men on foot and ten thousand men of Judah.
5-And Saul came to the city of Amalek and (lay in wait) in the valley.
6- Then Saul said to the Kenites. (Go , depart; go down from among the Amaleikes, lest I
destroy you with them for (you showed kindness )to all the people of Israel when they came up
out of Egypt.So the (Kenites) departed from among the Amaleikes etc,'
I could be totally confused but this reads like a parable of the many and the few to me.Also
Who are the Kenites and why did Saul give them a heads up before he attacked . By doing this
maybe a lot of the people , including children were spared. IDK, I’m thinking the Amaleikes
are a symbol for the many and the Kenites a symbol for the Few. Plus The Kenites showed the people of Israel kindness( does this mean they believed in Israel?
If this is not correct and someone out in BT land knows, please shut me down before I continue studying on this subject so I can get on the right path as the OT is a challenge for me.Thanks and God Bless,,,,,Pamela ❤️
Ray said “when we read about Israel, we read about Jesus, and when we read about Jesus we read obout us”. Does this apply here?
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How would you try explain why God commanded the Israelites to kill infants?
Simple. He is God and we are not. If there was a better way for him to accomplish his will for all humanity then he would of done it that way. IF this life was all that there is with no resurrection then I would be tempted to say that it is unjust for God to have issued such a command. But that isn't the case now, is it? A thousand years in his sight is as a day and a day as a thousand years. Even if a man lives to a ripe old age it's only the blink of an eye on God's timeline. All will be resurrected, all will be judged and all will be made into his express image in his time. All those who have died including infants will be resurrected and learn the truths of God. I'm a simple man and when questions happen that I don't understand why God did something a certain way I return to this often.
If there was a better way for God to accomplish his will for humanity then he would do it that way.
I rest fully in that. It is enough.
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Hi I-Bob, hope you are well my friend and everyone on BT.
I was looking at the verse Sam. 15:3 and I’m thinking ,,,,,this is no different than battles all over the world, now. I’m sure G. Bush wasn’t the least bit concerned about the children when they destroyed Iraq or any other war then and now. The sacrifice of children is ongoing in many ways.
A subject I’d like to discuss. Another time. Anyway, I have another question after reading this
book of 1 Samuel.
Sam. 4-7
So Saul summoned the people and numbered them in Telaim(why number them)? two hundred thousand men on foot and ten thousand men of Judah.
5-And Saul came to the city of Amalek and (lay in wait) in the valley.
6- Then Saul said to the Kenites. (Go , depart; go down from among the Amaleikes, lest I
destroy you with them for (you showed kindness )to all the people of Israel when they came up
out of Egypt.So the (Kenites) departed from among the Amaleikes etc,'
I could be totally confused but this reads like a parable of the many and the few to me.Also
Who are the Kenites and why did Saul give them a heads up before he attacked . By doing this
maybe a lot of the people , including children were spared. IDK, I’m thinking the Amaleikes
are a symbol for the many and the Kenites a symbol for the Few. Plus The Kenites showed the people of Israel kindness( does this mean they believed in Israel?
If this is not correct and someone out in BT land knows, please shut me down before I continue studying on this subject so I can get on the right path as the OT is a challenge for me.Thanks and God Bless,,,,,Pamela ❤️
Ray said “when we read about Israel, we read about Jesus, and when we read about Jesus we read obout us”. Does this apply here?
For what it's worth, I agree with you. And it's not the only foreshadowing of the many/few, called/chosen in the OT. I also agree that the OT is a challenge. We are to compare spiritual with spiritual. For me, that "ends" a ton of otherwise fruitless speculation. The New is not the Old.
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Hi I-Bob, hope you are well my friend and everyone on BT.
I was looking at the verse Sam. 15:3 and I’m thinking ,,,,,this is no different than battles all over the world, now. I’m sure G. Bush wasn’t the least bit concerned about the children when they destroyed Iraq or any other war then and now. The sacrifice of children is ongoing in many ways.
A subject I’d like to discuss. Another time. Anyway, I have another question after reading this
book of 1 Samuel.
Sam. 4-7
So Saul summoned the people and numbered them in Telaim(why number them)? two hundred thousand men on foot and ten thousand men of Judah.
5-And Saul came to the city of Amalek and (lay in wait) in the valley.
6- Then Saul said to the Kenites. (Go , depart; go down from among the Amaleikes, lest I
destroy you with them for (you showed kindness )to all the people of Israel when they came up
out of Egypt.So the (Kenites) departed from among the Amaleikes etc,'
I could be totally confused but this reads like a parable of the many and the few to me.Also
Who are the Kenites and why did Saul give them a heads up before he attacked . By doing this
maybe a lot of the people , including children were spared. IDK, I’m thinking the Amaleikes
are a symbol for the many and the Kenites a symbol for the Few. Plus The Kenites showed the people of Israel kindness( does this mean they believed in Israel?
If this is not correct and someone out in BT land knows, please shut me down before I continue studying on this subject so I can get on the right path as the OT is a challenge for me.Thanks and God Bless,,,,,Pamela ❤️
Ray said “when we read about Israel, we read about Jesus, and when we read about Jesus we read obout us”. Does this apply here?
Pamela I'm in agreement with you as well.
As for the numbering of the troops...
This was another disobedience to God Saul displayed.
The primary reason in the Old Testament for taking a census was to know the size of a nation's army and its ability to win wars against other people (Numbers 1:1-4, see also verse 19)!
A man only had the right to count or number what belonged to him. Israel did not belong to David; Israel belonged to God. In Exodus 30:12 God told Moses, “When you take a census of the Israelites to count them, each one must pay the LORD a ransom for his life at the time he is counted. Then no plague will come on them when you number them.” It was up to God to command a census, and if David counted he should only do it at God’s command, receiving a ransom to “atone” for the counting. This is why God was angry again with Israel and is also why David was “conscience-stricken” after he counted
Numbers signifies power in this regard. Saul was puffed up with pride because he had a mighty army, giving mo credit to God nor trusting in him to lead them in battle.
Who were the Kenites...You are right they were spared because of their kind dealings with the Israelites.
They were an ancient people living near the land of Canaan around the time of Abraham (Genesis 15:18–21). The Bible mentions several dealings between the Israelites and the Kenites, who were always on friendly terms with each other.
Moses eventually Married one of them, a woman named Zipporah (Exodus 2:16–21) and thus married into the Kenite tribe. Moses lived among the Kenites for many years before God called him as the one to deliver the Israelites from their enslavement in Egypt.
seems that the Kenites in Midian knew enough about the one true God to maintain a priest. The name Reuel means “friend of God.” After the exodus, Reuel’s knowledge of God dramatically increased, and he joined Moses and Aaron in bringing a burnt sacrifice and other offerings before the Lord to worship Him (Exodus 18:9–12).
I don't have an answe for your last question, but Ray did say on a few occasions ...It's all one thing and I see that more everyday.
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I don't think we can presume to know the motives of G.Bush or anyone. And as a retired soldiers wife, I can tell you the last thing they want to do is kill innocents.
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I wonder how did the Israelites feel when God gave them that commandment.Did they think "whoa!Kill suckling babies?"
I think it must've been difficult for them to follow through..
Perhaps it may have been a test on whether they will OBEY God above everything.Reminds me of whomever loves brother,mother,sister more than Jesus,is not worthy to be his disciple.
His commandments are difficult to follow!
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Sometimes I have a hard time reading many of the things in the OT. And when I ask, "Why?," I have to turn to the New Testament in order to regroup my thoughts. So, I have nothing to add to this discussion in the way of explanation.
But consider this: Since 1973 Roe vs Wade, we as a so-called Christian nation have slaughtered 50 million (and counting) of our own innocents for no good reason.
Mike
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I don't think we can presume to know the motives of G.Bush or anyone. And as a retired soldiers wife, I can tell you the last thing they want to do is kill innocents.
That’s a nice sentiment and before the internet existed I probably believed it. But the internet has brought more truth to light then has ever been before...
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I wonder how did the Israelites feel when God gave them that commandment.Did they think "whoa!Kill suckling babies?"
I think it must've been difficult for them to follow through..
Perhaps it may have been a test on whether they will OBEY God above everything.Reminds me of whomever loves brother,mother,sister more than Jesus,is not worthy to be his disciple.
His commandments are difficult to follow!
I don't have an answer for your troubled heart.
Maybe some of us have to look into the face of pure evil, more than a few times, to understand why our heavenly father, has dealt with man the way he has. That was certainly true for me.
Now I can't help but think how he must suffer, to see all the terrible things we do to ourselves and each other. There are horrible unspeakable things happening to people and animals, all around the world. Evertday, 24/7.
I believe God feels all the pain of the whole world, thats allot of hurt he's endured, all through the ages.
Im gonna open up a very large can of worms, just to make a point. Lets take a look at just one of those horrors...
Abortion
Where is the outcry for such an unspeakable slaughter of babies, done at the hands of their own parents. Who justify killing them by refusing to acknowledge they are human beings. Im thinking...The Biggest Genoside in the history of the world! This used to be one of my biggest tortures, until God opened my eyes.
Now he gives me the strength to endure and the promise and hope of the resurrection.
Try to focus on the truth of that. God will restore life to all of the babies who's lives have been lost. Oh my goodness, who's gonna take care of all those babies :)
God is infinitely BIGGER, working from a vantage point we can’t even comprehend, with power to execute His plan so great no one can thwart His will for even a millisecond. The chasm that exists between His plane of thought and ours is too big for words to capture. In His unending wisdom, knowledge, and power He has planned all of eternity, from start to finish.
Isaiah 46:9-11
[9] Remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,
[10] declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’
[11] calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my counsel from a far country. I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it.
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Sometimes I have a hard time reading many of the things in the OT. And when I ask, "Why?," I have to turn to the New Testament in order to regroup my thoughts. So, I have nothing to add to this discussion in the way of explanation.
But consider this: Since 1973 Roe vs Wade, we as a so-called Christian nation have slaughtered 50 million (and counting) of our own innocents for no good reason.
Mike
Your so right Mike, but keep in mind these numbers only reflect the US. I wrote a series of articles on this subject a few years back, and the numbers are substantially higher.
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Hi Octoberose
My presumption of George Bush is this. From Ray’s teaching on Tophet and Molech and my understanding. Ray refers to it as a modern day sacrifice to Molech.
He GB is one of many members of the powers that be of The Bohemian Grove. The self-sanctifying.
idol sacrificing,swine and mice eating worshipers of Molech, one of the deities of the idolatrous
Israelites and are a symbol of FAR GREATER SINS. Molech was referred to as the abomination
of the children of Ammon(1 Kings 11:17) and the primary means of worshiping him is the
SACRIFICE OF CHILDREN. Ray said Tophet of old is being brought back. ( Figuratively Speaking)
There is a list of members of this evil place in this study.
“ Let every soul be subject unto the Higher Powers, for there is no power but of God. The powers that be are ordained of God” Romans 13:1. ,,, including GB who’s motives I do not think are good.
For it is God which works in you, both to will and to do of His good pleasure. Phil.2:13
Everything by design and all of God.
Sincerely and in Christ.....Pamela
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Brings to mind what Paul wrote. My paraphrase from memory.
"Who are you O man! Does the thing created say to the Creator, 'What are You making?' "
[/quote]
He is right, God gives life and takes life. [1Timmothy 6:13]
And though it is an awfulthing that seems like how Can God do such? We should still not ask.of him or expect response. Sorry for all those who God took child away. I was just reading today of two 10 year Olds who killed a 2 year old. Sad. But only God. He allows it.
God bless.
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Well there’s a lot of truth on a little website called bible-truths , but I really would not put too much stock in a lot of what you read on the internet. For all it’s helpfulness , it can be very misleading . It all depends on the source .
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Well there’s a lot of truth on a little website called bible-truths , but I really would not put too much stock in a lot of what you read on the internet. For all it’s helpfulness , it can be very misleading . It all depends on the source .
Ya bible-truths is a gem in the vast sea of data made available to us through the internet.
I understand why people say “consider the source” when trying to discern if information is true. I don’t agree with it though. A broken watch tells the truth at least twice a day... everyday.
Will the chosen be judges in the next age? Would a righteous judge hear a claim and then base their ruling on the source without hearing the evidence? Even the boy who cried wolf should expect a fair hearing in the presence of a righteous judge..
I’m just speaking in general now and not in regards to your post on GW’s motives. Although you can find plenty of YouTube content where the source is GW’s own mouth. But in the end I have to believe that God alone knows the heart of a man.
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And though it is an awfulthing that seems like how Can God do such? We should still not ask.of him or expect response.
Why Karen_47?
Please tell me why you believe we should not ask or expect response??
I have both asked and received response (ask and you shall receive). And my faith is stronger for it. Perhaps my faith wasn’t even real until I gained the courage to question. How could one end up here at bible-truths without having questioned “how could a good God send billions to burn in Hell?”..
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Did anyone here come to know the truth without having had the courage to ask “if God is good and if God is Love.. how is it that He will send billions to hell to be tortured forever?”
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Did anyone here come to know the truth without having had the courage to ask “if God is good and if God is Love.. how is it that He will send billions to hell to be tortured forever?”
I was taught that horrible Christian doctrine when I was a child, but when God led me to Ray's website I learned the truth of God, I found out that Hellfire was BIG FAT LIE!
Learning Gods truths proved to me God is love, just as his word says he is. Not only is he not going to burn anyone in hell for all eternaty, he is going to save ALL mankind.
The Parable of the Lost Sheep
(Luke 15:1-7)
12What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them goes astray, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go out to search for the one that is lost? 13And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he rejoices more over that one sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. 14In the same way, your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish.
This is what Ray had to say on the subject...
Hell is a christian hoax
https://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html
Lake of fire series
https://bible-truths.com
Does All mean All
https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,5605.0.html
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It’s incredible isn’t it Wanda?
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It’s incredible isn’t it Wanda?
Amen to that! Most incredible thing that's happened in my life EVER! The only thing that could top this is the day Jesus returns. ;)
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Hi Wanda,
I used to pray that God would let me live to see His son return, IF it was o.k. with God.
Now I don't know if that was a good idea. Probably made me too concerned with what was going on in world events.
Better that I don't know, then it will be a welcome surprise.
I wonder if I'll have a tingling feeling in my belly or just calm and relief and WOW!!!
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Hi Wanda,
I used to pray that God would let me live to see His son return, IF it was o.k. with God.
Now I don't know if that was a good idea. Probably made me too concerned with what was going on in world events.
Better that I don't know, then it will be a welcome surprise.
I wonder if I'll have a tingling feeling in my belly or just calm and relief and WOW!!!
Hi Bob,
A very humble request Bob. You said you used to. If you dont mind me asking, what is your prayer to God now?
Seeing whats going on in the world was part of his plan for you. Its his way of humbling us.
Before God opened my eyes to his truth, he showed me the evils of this world. I can tell you, it was the only way it could have been, and I thank him everyday for that.
Now, I have no desire to know what is going on because I know God has everything under controll; it's such a comforting, peacful place to be in my faith.
Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.
When I finally understood this scriptue it was like the heavens opened up and angels sang.
This one scripture answered a lifetime of important questions i had.
I don't know how I will react, but knowing myself, it will involve some weeping, which is much more emotional, than your average crying, and the possibility of some serious bowing. But mostly, if it's possible, I want just one hug.
I think on the Glory of this...
Revelation 5:13 (NKJV)
13 And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:
“Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
May the peace of the Lamb be with you Bob
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Ibob, don’t be deceived, that tingling in your belly just might be gas 😂😂 , Just kidding my friend.
Couldn’t help myself.
Just thinking about the the Lords return makes me weak in the knees and I’ve cried almost every
night for three years, how long till these tears are gone? Sigh 😔Come Lord Jesus
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Jesus will come quickly.
We can die the next second.
The next moment we will awake in the Resurrection.
Our time is very short. We are just a breathe away from seeing God.
Although, we are within God now. Paul wrote that within God we live and work and have our being.
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Friend Wanda and all,
You asked what is my prayer now.
I have matured a little and can see things that were not clear in years past. (still subject to correction)
My focus now is somewhat more on the fate or future of my children and my wife.
My wife and I discuss these issues at length and she seems to understand and accept, but is not motivated to discuss the information of her own volition.
My four adult children have heard my views and quotes from L. Ray for ten years now and in discussions can recall the gist of many topics in reference to
God's plan for mankind. I believe to some extent that they are content with what they understand is the future of mankind and their place in it. e.g. the future
resurrection of all flesh to receive their first opportunity to understand fully the will of God.
They assuredly are not in fear of a burning Hell fire -- but one never knows the mind of another person. So I think that I have given them all that a parent can.
My wife and I try to teach by example the basic courtesies of life and how being "good" has many more self benefits than selfish conduct toward others.
Patience, temperance, integrity and plain speaking are traits we support along with some degree of humility as the spirit guides.
That is what the children are working with now in their own lives.
What they believe about God in their heart of hearts, their mind is still a mystery to me.
However we all are looking forward to a reunion of some description in God's family and even more so as the end of our lives approaches.
As John has plainly stated we can die in the next second, and then we will know...
Regards, Indiana bob
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Thank you for sharing Bob. Your walk with God has been very fruitfull. I pray your path continues to get even brighter.
Your friend in Jesus :)
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Jesus will come quickly.
We can die the next second.
The next moment we will awake in the Resurrection.
Our time is very short. We are just a breathe away from seeing God.
Although, we are within God now. Paul wrote that within God we live and work and have our being.
Great point, John. If our Saviour does not return until AD 5000, it is not nearly that far away for us, for the simple reason we won't live nearly that long. The longest any of us will have to wait is a few decades, and for some of the more mature members, it will be much sooner than that.
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Why Karen_47?
Please tell me why you believe we should not ask or expect response??
Answer: Largeli, it is not as though God is silent about these things. But, as a mere human who does not see God work things out no matter how horrible it is. We have his word to proof he is doing it. Bad. Or Good. So, that is why. I have no other answer to that. If God has spoken to you about why he took your Miscareged child then you got a response. But, you still know it was his will to do so. Right? I speak on the old testament times. We see and know the answer there. Ofcourse, the people back then didn't'. But God still allowed it. That's what I mean. I see the asker to this question saying it in a vague way like! Angry. And that was my response.
I have both asked and received response
Comment: God responses to certain things, yes. But, often times he doesn't'. Like the commanding killings of infants in old t. Times.
Remember * I was only saying it in a stern statement.
(ask and you shall receive). And my faith is stronger for it. Perhaps my faith wasn’t even real until I gained the courage to question. How could one end up here at bible-truths without having questioned “how could a good God send billions to burn in Hell?”..
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And thankgoodness you questioned that. God is a good God (father) for leading you to truth!
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Hi Karen_47
I apologize. There must have been some misinterpretation in my reading of your statement about questioning... and some misinterpretation of my question to you. I haven’t experienced a miscarriage or lost a child.
Without further miscommunication, I’ll just say that I don’t suppose any questions would be off limits.. who is God, why does God, how does God.. or even how could God.. perhaps asking difficult questions is akin to “wrestling with God” which yields a blessing.. but the church would have me believe that asking difficult questions is akin to “attacking” God.
Questions lead to answers and true answers destroy the doctrine of the church. “The truth will set you free.”
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Hi Karen_47
Without further miscommunication, I’ll just say that I don’t suppose any questions would be off limits.. who is God, why does God, how does God.. or even how could God.. perhaps asking difficult questions is akin to “wrestling with God” which yields a blessing.. but the church would have me believe that asking difficult questions is akin to “attacking” God.
Questions lead to answers and true answers destroy the doctrine of the church. “The truth will set you free.”
Proverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
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I wonder how did the Israelites feel when God gave them that commandment.Did they think "whoa!Kill suckling babies?"
I think it must've been difficult for them to follow through..
Perhaps it may have been a test on whether they will OBEY God above everything.Reminds me of whomever loves brother,mother,sister more than Jesus,is not worthy to be his disciple.
His commandments are difficult to follow!
Rolihlala & everyone on BT,
My take on this is quite profound, God has given up his own & only Son, Jesus Christ, to be slaughtered in the most horrible way. This was of course in the New Testament. Why do we continue to question God's sovereignty instead of accepting it? Why do we continue belittling God to the statue of a human? He is way above that & as those who are starting to see the truth, it's kind of ludicrous to still ask this questions in the way you do. "Has there been evil in the City & God has not done it?
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I wonder how did the Israelites feel when God gave them that commandment.Did they think "whoa!Kill suckling babies?"
I think it must've been difficult for them to follow through..
Perhaps it may have been a test on whether they will OBEY God above everything.Reminds me of whomever loves brother,mother,sister more than Jesus,is not worthy to be his disciple.
His commandments are difficult to follow!
Rolihlala & everyone on BT,
My take on this is quite profound, God has given up his own & only Son, Jesus Christ, to be slaughtered in the most horrible way. This was of course in the New Testament. Why do we continue to question God's sovereignty instead of accepting it? Why do we continue belittling God to the statue of a human? He is way above that & as those who are starting to see the truth, it's kind of ludicrous to still ask this questions in the way you do. "Has there been evil in the City & God has not done it?
I agree Floyd. And these people are not dead to God. He is keeping them.
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Floyd, out of all the contributions in this thread, this was certainly the most profound. Who can imagine sacrificing the life of any of their children, for any reason. The first time I read the horrors of death by crusifiction, I was inconsolable. I've never forgotten it and I never will.
I knew from that moment I had to know this God who was filled with that kind of love.
Thank you Floyd
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Jesus would tell them that death is sleep. But they laughed at Him. They did not think He knew what He was talking about.
All the dead. All the dead. Will wake up from their sleep by the power of the Great God.
Jesus will save everyone. Everyone will live in peace and happiness and prosperity forever and ever. No one will be left out or forgotten.
As it is written by God, "All will know Me, from the least to the greatess."
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Nashville Conference 2007
https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,4472.0.html
So not only did He have to carry all of our sins and shortcomings and everything else to the cross. But all His life He carried the pain, the sickness, the disease and the infirmaries in His body. Why? Because God is not going to put us through something that He is not willing to go through Himself! That’s why we follow in His footsteps, see. Now you have to understand in the same way that God spoke through Christ, every time He opened His mouth and God healed people, every time Christ said stand up or walk or whatever, the Father was doing it! In the same way, the Father is suffering through His Son.
Do you not suffer when your children suffer? Would you not trade places with them when they hurt and when they cry? Doesn’t it hurt you more than them, right
So God was suffering through His Son. What is this all about? Is this more of this bizarre stuff? What is this all about? Here is the Son of Man, all filled with diseases, sicknesses, infirmaries and all of that. He put the iniquities of us all on Him.
But He gave His Son, now here’s the point I want to make and that is this, why did Christ have to die? Why? Why did the Father sacrifice His Son? Why did He have to do that? HE DIDN’T HAVE TO DO THAT! He didn’t have to do anything, HE’S GOD! Why DID He? Because whether you recognize it now or later in life or those in the resurrection to judgment or for the rest of eternity, we are going to know it for sure. That God died for us for no other reason than to show us that HE LOVES US! He did not have to die. He said, I will do it to show them. How can I show them that what I am putting them through has real value? What can I do? I can promise them the world, I can give them mansions and youth and joyful life. I have all that to give, but they will say, you are only giving out of your abundance, of what you have. What can I really do, that you will know that I really love you? God said, I will DIE!
But God can’t die, He’s eternal, He has immortality, deathlessness. If you have immortality you can’t die. So He made a Son. He made Him great. To show us how great He was, He said, let Me show you what I can do when I make a Son. Create the universe first, now become a man, and now die.
Then they will know We love them.
Then they will know.
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Isa 53:5 ‘But He was wounded for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquities; upon Him was the punishment that made us whole, and by His bruises we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have all turned to our own way, and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.”