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=> Testimonies / Prayer Requests / Fellowship => Topic started by: hillsbororiver on July 10, 2009, 08:03:03 PM
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Hello Brothers & Sisters,
Recently we read a dear Brother's testimony regarding his current feelings about continuing his fellowship and membership here, confusion weaved through this announcement and I must state that I could relate to it unambiguously as I have been there myself.
I have been a member here since 2005 and have seen all too many come and go, some of them were folks I truly cherished fellowshipping with, I was incredulous and even saddened by their sudden departure. Every situation has been unique of course but most had one of the following reasons for leaving.
Their topics of interest were not being addressed sufficiently.
They felt ignored or unappreciated.
They began to resent what they perceived to be too much credence to Ray, who is "only a man" (true) who (they believed) had no more spiritual wisdom than any other who sought God's spirit. (My own opinion and experience is that Ray has been given an incredible portion of spiritual understanding).
They also resented what they claimed to be cliqueishness among the membership where some within certain subgroups (their perception) only interacted with those within their "clique."
They felt they were spending too much time seeking the approval of others (here) rather than seeking the One on one relationship with our Lord that is absolutely essential to our salvation.
There are other subsets of reasons too, some just did not feel there was a need for moderators or censoring other teachings here (even though that is fully addressed prior to membership). This feeling would spiral into animosity toward any moderator or member who would remind them of this basic, fundamental purpose of what the purpose of the Bible Truths Forum is all about.
Another reason would be their disenchantment with how personal revelations or teachings (sometimes very compelling) are not encouraged publicly, that Bible Truths would restrict members from using the Forum as a podium for their own compulsion to teach, ironically many of these same people who would state we do not "need men to teach us" would afford themselves the right to teach others.
Some just began to feel the rules should not apply to them any longer.
I am not saying that we should not privately share discoveries with each other (PM's, email, phone, etc.) that perhaps are not addressed by Ray, only that the reason most of us are even (sincerely) here is because of the articles Ray has written and how these articles spoke to our spirit, we read them and we were filled with joy and amazement at what we saw as the real Good News of God.
It is true that certain folks relate better with some people rather than others, this is our present (temporal) reality, it is not going to change until we experience "the change," when we are totally spiritual creatures, we must have patience, empathy and mercy toward those we are not in complete harmony with whether that be here, in the churches, or in the world. We will not experience real spiritual growth until we realize and accept this, we can gain knowledge, memorizing chapter and verse, even become fluent in the root words of Hebrew and Greek impressing many who come into our spheres of this life. But guess what, pure knowledge is not wisdom.
Folks please keep in mind the original reason you first wanted to join with us (you remember don't you?), we make no claims of perfection, there may be times you feel slighted or unappreciated, there may be times that the things you want to discuss do not resonate with others but this is all part of growing in spirit. If anyone was alone and could not really count on human compassion and loyalty it is our Lord Jesus, He is our example as well as our goal, to be One with Him and our Father we must be overcomers, and we must be merciful and compassionate, patient and longsuffering.
This will never be a perfect oasis from trials and tribulations but I have not found (not for a lack of searching) a better place to fellowship with my Brothers and Sisters who are also sojourning through this earthly obstacle course our Father has deemed necessary for our ultimate perfection.
I have probably (once again) gone on a bit too long but I want to close with just one verse;
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
His Peace to you all,
Joe
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Joe I very much appreciate this post. It makes me very sad when people decide to leave it hurts worse when they just leave without saying good bye. I for one get very attached to the people on this forum. I love them dearly and I feel bad when time goes by and I haven't seen someone post for awhile. Everyone here is so dear to me. I will admit that some are easier to get along with than others, but we just have to learn to deal with each other's differences!
When we remember that the reason we came here was because we understand that there is no other place to fellowship with like believers. There have been many days when just a word from someone here lifted me up and held me in place. The prayers of everyone here are the prayers of faithful friends and brothers and sisters each one is an wonderful gift to me. I love sharing with everyone on this forum and I have enjoyed getting to know some better through pm's and email and now even on facebook! This is a great family and a great place to fellowship and enjoy each other in the Lord!
Thanks again, Joe for sharing this!
Love,
Kathy ;) :-*
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Hello Joe,
I may not have been here that long [almost a year] but I too have noticed that a few members which I talked with before, haven't let any comments/posts in a long time. I just pray that God is there with them, wherever they are, guiding them along "the path of righteousness".
I think some people just have a problem discerning between sharing thoughts and ideas, and trying to "teach" people. I've left several posts of 'revelations' [in my view] and other truths that have become clear to me, and many of us leave posts with words of guidance and wisdom for others here, especially the "newbies". Some of these could be interpreted as "teaching", but in reality it's just us helping out each other, and sharing what we've learned in the Scriptures and through Ray's teachings, and expanding on them, the correct way, by following God's Guidelines, such as:
1. "rightly dividing the Word of God"--II Timothy 2:15
2. "but in a multitude of counselors there is safety"--Proverbs 11:14
etc...
From my experience here so far, I believe the moderators have done an EXCELLENT job in discerning whether someone is attempting to by "our teacher", or someone is simply sharing their thoughts, ideas. Furthermore, between the moderators and the rest of the members here [especially the 'veteran' ones], I believe this Forum does a SUPERB job at sticking to the Scriptures, rather than throwing out random opinions and getting into "futile debates".
But that's just from my experience here. Perhaps there used to be more issues in the past, but since I've been here, this Forum has truly been LIKE NO OTHER ON THE INTERNET!! :D ;D ;) :)
- Daywalker. 8)
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Thanks Joe, very well put.
I think we have to be careful not to take this forum for granted and to recognize what a privilege it is to have this place. The truth is so precious and rare and to have a group of people of like mind to discuss these things with is a phenomenon. I know that God has given us this place and will keep it going as long as He sees fit. God willing this forum will be here until Jesus returns, but we don't know that it will. So I just want to make the most of this place every day that I can :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Hi folks,
Blessings to you Joe and as a 'new veteran' I know exactly what you're saying. These things have happened in the past and I'm sure they will happen again in the future too.
Joe knows me quite well and he'll confirm what I say. I have been a member of BT for many years and there were problems some years ago and the forum switched to this new format. Shortly after that there were many divisions among members and too many posts were ending up as fruitless debates and outright arguments. There were personal attacks on Ray (even though everyone should know that he doesn't visit this forum), on the moderators, and I even had detractors caning my person too.
All that resulted was division and the body suffered as a result. It was very sad to see these things happening but I'd say that it was the very sickle that this site needed. Well, those 'others' went off and started their own forums etc. and BT carried on. I remained a member here but also visited those other forums. Having seen the damage that comes from 'debates', 'rebuttles' and 'teachings' I reduced my visits on forums to just reading a few posts but I did drop the odd post here and there. I spent time with the Lord, some time in the wilderness and some time with Joe (on a visit to Florida last year) and that worked well for me. I did most of my communicating privately through PM's and did not post very often in the forums.
The Lord has shown me many wonderful things, He brought me to BT where I learned much truth and gained valuable fellowship. The way to life is difficult and physical fellowship is very minimal and so this board is a beacon for God's elect. It is the fellowship and edifying found here that's like food for my soul, that's why I spend most of my time in this section of the forum. We have a oneness of the spirit that should be enjoyed and a love among ourselves that can be expressed through the internet as well as felt in our spirit.
I can understand that some may feel burdened trying to read through and/or replying to posts on the forum, but if we've reached a point where that is so then we must take serious stock of what we are doing and more importantly, WHY we're doing it.
This place is our congregation, let's use it to edify and build up, to offer support & prayer to each other, to share what the Lord is showing us and to accept some reproof where needed (I certainly know the value of that), and this place will not be the house of blues, but the house of the rising Son (sorry couldn't resist that one) and then we can all bask in the warmth rather than shiver in the cold.
The Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit my brothers and sisters
Nelson
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AMEN NELSON!
You speak wise! 8)
Hi folks,
Blessings to you Joe and as a 'new veteran' I know exactly what you're saying. These things have happened in the past and I'm sure they will happen again in the future too.
Joe knows me quite well and he'll confirm what I say. I have been a member of BT for many years and there were problems some years ago and the forum switched to this new format. Shortly after that there were many divisions among members and too many posts were ending up as fruitless debates and outright arguments. There were personal attacks on Ray (even though everyone should know that he doesn't visit this forum), on the moderators, and I even had detractors caning my person too.
All that resulted was division and the body suffered as a result. It was very sad to see these things happening but I'd say that it was the very sickle that this site needed. Well, those 'others' went off and started their own forums etc. and BT carried on. I remained a member here but also visited those other forums. Having seen the damage that comes from 'debates', 'rebuttles' and 'teachings' I reduced my visits on forums to just reading a few posts but I did drop the odd post here and there. I spent time with the Lord, some time in the wilderness and some time with Joe (on a visit to Florida last year) and that worked well for me. I did most of my communicating privately through PM's and did not post very often in the forums.
The Lord has shown me many wonderful things, He brought me to BT where I learned much truth and gained valuable fellowship. The way to life is difficult and physical fellowship is very minimal and so this board is a beacon for God's elect. It is the fellowship and edifying found here that's like food for my soul, that's why I spend most of my time in this section of the forum. We have a oneness of the spirit that should be enjoyed and a love among ourselves that can be expressed through the internet as well as felt in our spirit.
I can understand that some may feel burdened trying to read through and/or replying to posts on the forum, but if we've reached a point where that is so then we must take serious stock of what we are doing and more importantly, WHY we're doing it.
This place is our congregation, let's use it to edify and build up, to offer support & prayer to each other, to share what the Lord is showing us and to accept some reproof where needed (I certainly know the value of that), and this place will not be the house of blues, but the house of the rising Son (sorry couldn't resist that one) and then we can all bask in the warmth rather than shiver in the cold.
The Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit my brothers and sisters
Nelson
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Thank you Joe, and everyone else. Very edifying, beneficial and humbling to be reminded as to why we are all here. This is very encouraging, and uplifting spiritually. All the glory is His.
Peace & Love
G.Driggs
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Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Thanks for sharing that great verse, Joe. That was the best part of your whole post. :)
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I love all the post here. I agree so much with them. When, I first joined although I read for a year. I just could not get over my feelings for the people in Babylon. Ones, who I loved. But, I never understood Gods Good News or his plan for the whole world.
I had a hard time not thinking like Babylon for a long time. But, the Hell issue and Tithe and Trinity were easier for me to believe . I will be honest. Where, I went to church they very seldom spoke in OT scriptures. I am trying to get where I like to read the OT more. Some of you all just amaze me of how you know and understand OT and its spiritual relationship to us. I am learning as God leads. I never wanted to be a teacher, leader . I know, how important it is not to teach false things. I was having a hard time not feeling sorry for all those lost in Babylon. I was one for a long time. I really thought Hell must be true till I read Ray's articles and God let me believe.
I have gone into one christian forum that teaches some of the things like Ray. That, lasted one day. It was total confusion every one talking there own mind and no scripture. I need the guidance with the scriptures. I make up a folder on scriptures you all have brought up in topics so I can remember them and help my bad memory from a stroke a year before coming in here. Now, I read in different versions to help my understanding.
When, I first came in here I felt like a fish out of water. I felt misunderstood. Some, of the scriptures I was still seeing with blind eyes. You could have beat me up with them and I would not have understood. I thought, I was doing more harm then good by being in here. But, then God gave the desire to keep on learning and being patient with him and he would teach me and give me understanding.
But, I love all of you. Someone often post about something I am going through that day or during the week. I love all the ones who can show me scriptures and then God opens my eyes. Just, a thought you might give on the scriptures. I know, I am a long ways off then many of you. But, now I know I am right where God wants me to be. I don't care about my bad memory. I don't care about my days of physical pain. I am just eager to learn what ever the good Lord lets me. I thank him every day and night for all of you. God has always enabled me to be a fighter when I was very ill working. I did my job as if God was standing there watching me. He was my boss. When, I became to ill to work, every bit of time I can I come in here and read my Bible all the time.
I cannot get enough of God period. That,s why I made copies of Ray's papers so I could read if I am laying down. My sleeping patterns are strange because of pain. But, I can talk to God or I can read . Or he gives me rest. Or he helps the pain. I know, God has made me a fighter.
I always ask God to kick me in the rump if this becomes about me. If, I am so sensitive and can't get over myself. I was senstive at first when I came in here. But, God got me over that. I know, of others who have left. I see there names in black. I pray for them. Then, I think what may have happened that they left. I have some I love who have pm me. They left and I do not know why. Could be for various reasons. But, I pray often for them. I think they might have passed away. Or, having money problems. I just pray and wait to see if God helps them to return.
Well, I did not plan on making a book about this. But, like Joe, after reading others who believe some like Ray they differ on many things. When , you read even some of there books you find they are not always matching up with scriptures. God has lead Ray with his Spirit. It is the only thing I found that goes into the deep things of Christ. It truely is Bible truths. It never ceases to amaze me when God increases my understanding. What, really amazes me is when I see him helping me to live it not just know it.
I hope we never loose this and I thank God for Ray and all of you. But, I also know if it should happen we will be ok cause God is in it all . This is a gift from God and I thank him. Yes, like Ray's said, that he is just a human. So, we all are. But, you are my Brothers and Sisters in Christ and I take this serious.
In His Love,
Marlene
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Great post Marlene, we cant go wrong if we keep focused on Him always.
Pro 3:6 In all thy ways, acknowledge him, and, he, will make straight thy paths. (Rotherham)
Pro 4:18 The path of those who do what is right is like the first gleam of dawn. It shines brighter and brighter until the full light of day (NIrV)
Act 2:25 For David says this about him: 'I saw Adonai always before me, for he is at my right hand, so that I will not be shaken.
Act 2:26 For this reason, my heart was glad; and my tongue rejoiced; and now my body too will live on in the certain hope
Act 2:27 that you will not abandon me to Sh'ol or let your Holy One see decay.
Act 2:28 You have made known to me the ways of life; you will fill me with joy by your presence.' (CJB)
Peace & Love
G.Driggs
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Thank you for the wonderful message Joe, which is warming my heart.
Bluzman
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Thanks Joe,
When i grow up i want to be able to write just like you. I know that takes time and study and eating humble pie often. That humble pie i have learned to like the taste of, much better than pumpkin pie, which i do not like.
There is not part of your post, that i would not heartily endorse. Thanks for saying for me, what i cannot yet express as eloquently as you just did.
It is a painful experience whenever someone gets offended or tired and leave without even a so long or goodbye. There really are so few people, in this Country of over 300 million population, that one can discuss the more profound Truths Of GOD'S Scripture.
I think that is enough from me, except to add, all my BT sisthren and brethren are today, the only ones that i can even discuss The Scriptures with. That is without being regarded as a three headed monster, who hates GOD, and despises the Sacrifice Of Jesus Christ.
LORD; how much longer,
george.
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Dear Joe,
I always wish to share my heart and my thoughts on here but I know that I am just a babe. You are wise. God has blessed this forum with some wise and humble moderators, and pride has always been one of my problems!!;-) thank you for the balance you bring. There is a peace here because of it. I do not get to comment much, but I LOVE to read and sometimes ask questions. I also listen to the audios and videos from Ray and have been learning much. So thank you for this place and praise be to God for it! I hope I do not have to leave again! I missed it so!
Beth :)
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I have been here a couple of years. Everyone here seems ,to me , at different growth areas. At one time I stop posting and did stop reading but kept remembering the life that was here. So i came back to listen and read. It has taken me some time to get in part the message. I am probably one of those very mess up person that Christ has mercy upon and teaches and draws to Him. I feel very blessed. I know this forum is not perfect it has some issues. Jesus Christ is the perfect one., but i have so many too, and I am getting fed on this forum, Thank You JESUS!!!! so people coming and going there is a reason for that. God will bring those back whom He wants too. What my prayer is Lord give me the ability to know what is Your will and the strength to do it and to persevere. God bless peggy
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Thank you for this post Joe and I want to add on only 1 thing for all of us:
Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Matt 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me [the Lord] with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mark 7:6 He [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
These posts that Joe, Craig, George, Nelson, and many others have created here and in times past, by the Will of God, are a true blessing. They speak to us directly to turn us away from our carnal attitudes and repent of who & what we are.
But they have to be more than words in our lives...it is not enough to say, 'Great post...I really need that', but then to fall away and back into carnal lusts of the heart. One would have been better to not say anything than to 'draw nigh with their lips, though their hearts are far away'. Aren't we all TIRED of the same run around...the same back-biting...the same silly doctrinal issues that are more about one's knowledge than their love of Christ?
Think about the children of Israel...'our admonition' [1 Cor 10:11]...even if you don't know or understand all the types/shadows that are present in the OT, there is one thing that is very obvious about the ancient Israelites that the scriptures harp on more than anything: THEY CONTINUALLY FELL AWAY FROM WHAT WAS PLEASING TO THE LORD...CONSISTENTLY! You don't have to be a biblical scholar to see that...and that's what WE have to stop doing as well. Otherwise, what's the point?
Now, we know that of ourselves, we can do nothing [John 15:5]...so let us look unto the Lord, as we are complete in Him [Col 2:10]. But THIS is what we need to repent of...this is what we need to ask him to work IN us...this change of who & what we are, completely. Otherwise, how are we any different...how are learning from the examples of the ancient Israelites?
Let us not be as that nation, hypocrites and back-sliding...the Lord has something BETTER for us [Heb 11:40]...if we don't repent and seek the Lord from these admonitions these members have shown us but only give lip service, we will not go further in our walk with Christ. Repent means to turn away from...to stop doing it...not just talk about it, but do it.
Thanks,
Marques
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I so agree, Marques! That, overcoming the Beast! Only, God can help us do it! We are complete in him. It is a process. I so want to be like him.
I really hate when I go back to the dog vomit.
In His Love,
Marlene
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Thanks Joe for that post
I remember when God led me to the site,it has taken me almost a couple of months reading after work.
To be honset i am not into chic chatting, but most of the time get to the point kind of person,like so whats the
conclusion of the matter already.but i am learning slowly but surely ,to have balance in understanding
other non Scripture points ,chewing the fat so to speak.
I don't post much but I do quick scanning on the forum and read what i think is interesting.
This is just my personal thoughts at this time.
PS. It is good having this forum to come to with people who have the same goal as is on rays site.
Walt.
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I couldn't help it. I had to check in. I'm glad I did. I've done a lot of praying for the last two days.
I'm still taking a break, but I realize that I can't and don't want to be away for a long period of time.
I know that I'm am in a trial, being tested and humbled.
I'm having personal issues that I wish I could share with just the forum.
I agree with, and share with all of the above post. I know that this is where God wants me to be. We have to have the fellowship. There is no where else we can do this.
Just letting everyone know that I'm here to stay.
There is much I could talk about right now, but this is Joe's thread, and a good one too.
One thing for sure is I am not a quitter. I don't mind putting my foot in my mouth when I say things on the forum.I have learned all too well that I have to make mistakes.I've made them all my life, but this is one place I can make them and be corrected in love and compassion and understanding and wisdom, etc.
Peace
Roy
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Hi Brothers and Sisters,
Thank you all for your insights, additions and thoughtful comments, there are so many excellent points to consider and reflect on.
Lately it seems everything I look into scripturally boils down to mercy and compassion for all, we all have been uplifted immeasurably by this realization when it pertains to God's love and mercy toand for us, our families and our friends.
Praise God we have been given this Light from above, how sweet it is!
But with this wisdom comes an obligation, we must decrease as He increases within us, as we well know this is not an easy process, as Ray as commented on many times "salvation is the hardest thing we will ever have to experience." Being transformed from a selfish, sometimes self righteous beast into a Son or Daughter of the Living God and gaining His attributes of patience and mercy requires losing a whole lot of baggage accumulated through the years and replacing it with empathy and a long suffering compassion to all His creation. This very often is a very bitter pill to swallow.
Meditating on this has really brought to life the following verses;
Rev 10:9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
Rev 10:10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
Yes, the true good news of the Gospel is sweet as honey, living these Words however is the hard part. Believe me I know this very well from first hand experience! ;)
Only through His Spirit will obedience become reality.
Peace to you all,
Joe
P.S. I hope to be able to address some of the responses a little later today, this is another day where we have some places to go and people to see! :D
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Hello everybody
Yet again, thank you Joe for a timely post. Just wish to add an extract from Ray's Lake of Fire paper: http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm
Installment XVI, Part D-4
JUDGMENT AS DEFINED BY SCRIPTURE IS GOOD
REPENTANCE: "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" (Luke 5:32). Strong's #3341 metanoia--"compunction (for guilt), reversal." Metanoia (the noun) is from #3340, metanoeo (the verb), which means: "to perceive afterwards, implying change... the mind, the seat of moral reflection... hence signifies to change one's mind or purpose" (Vines Concise Dictionary of Bible Words.)
The very first word to humanity out of Jesus' mouth after being tempted by Satan in the wilderness was "repent..." (Matt. 4:17). And what does "repent" mean? It means to change. And what have I been teaching since we started bible-truths.com? That God is changing physical, carnal humanity into the spiritual Image of God. That's what our existence is all about. This is the purpose for humanity. This is the next goal in the plan of God. To make carnal, physical humanity into the Spiritual Image of God. It's all about change. God is going to change the entire human race. And once you understand this first word "repentance," you will understand the other spiritual and pious sounding words of Scripture. They all involve change-changing from what we are into what God is.
- This word repentance sets the stage for all other commandments and admonitions regarding a change from what we are to what we should and MUST BE.
- We are to turn from our carnal human nature and sin, to God's spiritual love and righteousness.
- It is God Who will change us from what we are to what He is.
- God is creating humanity into the very Spiritual Image of Himself (that is what it's all about).
- This is the enigma of the Scriptures.
- This is the great parable of the Bible.
- This is the purpose for creation.
- This is the destiny of mankind.
- This is God's master purpose.
- This will be God's greatest accomplishment.
- This will be the Crowning Masterpiece of God's eternal wisdom, power, and love.
- God is calling you and me to this awesome journey!
I really like the third bullet: It is God Who will change us from what we are to what He is. This is what we've been learning all along. From the "Winning Souls for Jesus" study to the Free will studies. I believe we really ought to decrease so HE increases. I'm not preaching/teaching. I do hope and pray that we could all increase in our Galatians 5:22-23 spiritual produce. That is Christ. That (to me) is Him increasing in me.
All Glory to GOD
BTW, the gospel is indeed bitter sweet. I dont even know where to begin in outlining that to someone else... >:(
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Joe I very much appreciate this post. It makes me very sad when people decide to leave it hurts worse when they just leave without saying good bye. I for one get very attached to the people on this forum. I love them dearly and I feel bad when time goes by and I haven't seen someone post for awhile. Everyone here is so dear to me. I will admit that some are easier to get along with than others, but we just have to learn to deal with each other's differences!
When we remember that the reason we came here was because we understand that there is no other place to fellowship with like believers. There have been many days when just a word from someone here lifted me up and held me in place. The prayers of everyone here are the prayers of faithful friends and brothers and sisters each one is an wonderful gift to me. I love sharing with everyone on this forum and I have enjoyed getting to know some better through pm's and email and now even on facebook! This is a great family and a great place to fellowship and enjoy each other in the Lord!
Thanks again, Joe for sharing this!
Love,
Kathy ;) :-*
Hi Kathy,
Many times during my 4 years here I have wondered and speculated on why some stray away or abruptly quit without a word or let themselves become so frustrated that they decide to not participate. Until I felt the same way.
Yes, there have been a few times when I was ready to toss aside the fellowship I cherish because some of the things I felt were very important (knowledge wise) that did not appear to be very important or interesting to the membership. It has been a recent transformation so to speak that I have come to the humbling realization that I have a very long way to go and grow in patience, long suffering and wisdom, when I move forward one step on this path I am on I have a better vantage point as to how far I really have to go.
My old man, the beast had managed to fit me with a new set of blinders without me even being conscious of it, this carnal ego can disguise itself quite convincingly as an angel of light.
With that being said it is understandable that there are times we can become disillusioned here, is there anywhere on this earth where we won't at some point become frustrated or disappointed? But that brings right back to that pesky patience thing, when I am ready to make some knee jerk decision I pray that gentle voice reminds me of this, more often than not it requires a swift kick in the butt! ;)
Anyway, it always gives me great joy when I see someone return after a hiatus and return with perhaps a deeper understanding of how truly valuable a place such as this is to help and assist in keeping us focused on the prize, the Prize which is our Lord (and His mercy).
Peace,
Joe
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Hello Joe,
I may not have been here that long [almost a year] but I too have noticed that a few members which I talked with before, haven't let any comments/posts in a long time. I just pray that God is there with them, wherever they are, guiding them along "the path of righteousness".
I think some people just have a problem discerning between sharing thoughts and ideas, and trying to "teach" people. I've left several posts of 'revelations' [in my view] and other truths that have become clear to me, and many of us leave posts with words of guidance and wisdom for others here, especially the "newbies". Some of these could be interpreted as "teaching", but in reality it's just us helping out each other, and sharing what we've learned in the Scriptures and through Ray's teachings, and expanding on them, the correct way, by following God's Guidelines, such as:
1. "rightly dividing the Word of God"--II Timothy 2:15
2. "but in a multitude of counselors there is safety"--Proverbs 11:14
etc...
From my experience here so far, I believe the moderators have done an EXCELLENT job in discerning whether someone is attempting to by "our teacher", or someone is simply sharing their thoughts, ideas. Furthermore, between the moderators and the rest of the members here [especially the 'veteran' ones], I believe this Forum does a SUPERB job at sticking to the Scriptures, rather than throwing out random opinions and getting into "futile debates".
But that's just from my experience here. Perhaps there used to be more issues in the past, but since I've been here, this Forum has truly been LIKE NO OTHER ON THE INTERNET!! :D ;D ;) :)
- Daywalker. 8)
Hi Daywalker,
First off I want to thank you for your fellowship here, there have been many times when I have read what you wrote and nodded my head in the affirmative as I contemplated your thoughts and observations.
Yes I agree that the debates and infighting that would rear its ugly head from time to time have slowed down the past few months to a year, as a matter of fact this period has been one of the most peaceful in memory, for this I must thank the members for their patience and their obvious willingness to put aside the differences that will always come when a group of people are conversing about matters that are of great importance to them.
Perhaps more of us are consciously or even subconsciously praying the prayer of Solomon that pleased the Lord exceedingly! (1Kings 3:9-12)
Peace,
Joe
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Hi all! What a wonderful thread! I am so blessed reading everyones' posts. Thank you.
I used to post all the time and love all the cyber-family I have "met" thru this forum. I don't post as much and as new ones come on it is OK for me to not feel I have to post. I come on almost every day and try to keep up w what is going on. I love the fellowship here. But it never fails to amaze me, after all these years, when people post excerpts from Ray, that I realize why we are all here. It is the truths that we learn from Ray. That is what bonds me to all of you.
The mods have been wonderful. I, like Nelson and Joe, remember the old days. trust us folks, the forum "rules and regulations" are to help us not hinder us. Pray for the moderators and for each other. Lift Ray up. Rejoice in what God has done and Will do.
Love,
gena
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Speaking for myself only, I continue to read several times a day however I have not felt like posting for quite some time. I didn't grow up in a religious family. I have almost no background in religion. About four years ago (32 at the time), I happened to see a seventh day adventist show on TV that really struck a cord with me. The next Saturday I found myself sitting in a SDA church, quietly singing songs and praying. It did not take me long to get fired up and I would literally spend every free moment (many times until 5 or 6 in the morning) reading and researching everything to do with God, the bible, SDA etc. etc. I gained a huge amount of knowledge in a short period of time. Lots of knowledge (but as Joe said) no wisdom.
It was around this time that I discovered Ray's site and subsequently this forum. Anyway, to make a short story long, I used to post my opinions,quote scriptures, discuss and offer advice to friends and family, pray with my kids and was proud to be enlightened, until one day I realized that I wasn't nearly as "enlightened" as I thought I was. I suddenly became quite embarrassed (and remain so) about my whole phony christian life. So here I sit, a closet believer, afraid to discuss or even offer an opinion on anything Godly (can't even pray with my kids anymore). I am in a bit of a dark place right now, as I am sure many of you have been, but am sure that one day I will snap out of it. I don't know if I have ever asked for prayer before (if I did it was fake) but I do ask in earnest right now.
Anyway, I am not even sure why I decided to write this or if it even adds anything to this thread but I just felt like I needed to say this.
Scott
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Scott, I am touched by your post, and say with confidence that I know why you decided to write what you did. Its the choice that God wanted you to make, and God wants us to pray for you. Its not at all complicated as you may think it is. God has you where He wants you. We are no different than you. You are where you are for us, and us for you, and God for all of us and them.
Scott, its when we get into that dark place as you say you are that God is working a wonderful work; about to bring in some light into your life. God just brought me out of the closet. It may have been a different closet, but it was a closet non the less.
Sounds like God just let a little light into your closet, otherwise you wouldn't have made a post, and asked for prayer. I'm excited for you and will pray for you right now and give thanks to Father God that His will is being done in your life.
Peace
Roy
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Thanks Joe, very well put.
I think we have to be careful not to take this forum for granted and to recognize what a privilege it is to have this place. The truth is so precious and rare and to have a group of people of like mind to discuss these things with is a phenomenon. I know that God has given us this place and will keep it going as long as He sees fit. God willing this forum will be here until Jesus returns, but we don't know that it will. So I just want to make the most of this place every day that I can :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Hi Kat,
What you wrote is very true, we have an unique opportunity to learn, share, empathize and encourage each other here and I don't think I would get an argument when I say that your contributions, time and patience have played a large part in this. If you had only done the transcripts (which I truly appreciate every time I access them) your contribution would be tremendous, but dear Sister you bring so much more than the attributes of a determined taskmaster. It is obvious that what you do is a labor of love.
Thank you Kat!
Peace,
Joe
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Thanks dear brother :)
mercy, peace andlove
Kat
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Anyway, to make a short story long, I used to post my opinions,quote scriptures, discuss and offer advice to friends and family, pray with my kids and was proud to be enlightened, until one day I realized that I wasn't nearly as "enlightened" as I thought I was.
Man I can identify with that. When I was in the babalonian system I fancied myself a teacher. I had all the sects doctrines down (AOG) and could argue scripture and 'win' debates with the best of them. But I didn't know as much as what I thought I did and Ray's teachings harmonized the scriptures and blew me out of the water. It seemed at the time that so many scriptures were in contradiction to others...and I knew that couldn't be the case. Being yet carnal (and still way to carnal btw) I couldn't perceive the spiritual. I am more than satisfied now with pretty much keeping my mouth shut and learning the lessons God has for me to learn. It's all in his timing anyway and what both a revelation and relief that really is in the long run.
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Scott, I agree with Roy. It is God who led you to ask for Prayer. I have not been in here too long. I know, I am far from knowing alot. But, I will pray for you. Compassion for others is where God has me at. I have compassion on the whole world. No, one has it all down. That, is what we are in here for is to uplift each other and know we all are carrying that cross. Some, of us can share carrying that cross and it just may help the others who is going through the same thing. Also, I just know I can come in here some days and someone in here can help me by just there post. Great Brothers and Sisters in here.
As for not being able to pray. God, knows what is in your heart. When, I cannot find words. I figure that is God telling me you do not need words, I know your heart. That, always humbles me and lets me kinow he is in control of it all. Don't worry over words just let God do it.
In His Love,
Marlene
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(Quotes from Nelson in black, me in blue)
Hi folks,
Hey there Nelson,
Blessings to you Joe and as a 'new veteran' I know exactly what you're saying. These things have happened in the past and I'm sure they will happen again in the future too.
We can be certain that strife and contention will rear its head again, it is all about how we deal with it.
Joe knows me quite well and he'll confirm what I say. I have been a member of BT for many years and there were problems some years ago and the forum switched to this new format. Shortly after that there were many divisions among members and too many posts were ending up as fruitless debates and outright arguments. There were personal attacks on Ray (even though everyone should know that he doesn't visit this forum), on the moderators, and I even had detractors caning my person too.
Yes indeed! ;D There was a whole lot a judgin' goin' on over here!
All that resulted was division and the body suffered as a result. It was very sad to see these things happening but I'd say that it was the very sickle that this site needed. Well, those 'others' went off and started their own forums etc. and BT carried on. I remained a member here but also visited those other forums. Having seen the damage that comes from 'debates', 'rebuttles' and 'teachings' I reduced my visits on forums to just reading a few posts but I did drop the odd post here and there. I spent time with the Lord, some time in the wilderness and some time with Joe (on a visit to Florida last year) and that worked well for me. I did most of my communicating privately through PM's and did not post very often in the forums.
You know Nelson it was also very good for me to have personal face time with you and the others I have been blessed to meet in person, being mutual "friends" of our Savior certainly does break down any artificial barriers. Each time the comfort level and joy of fellowship was every bit as satisfying as visiting with an old friend you haven't seen in a long time.
I have been to 5 Conferences and this feeling permeates throughout the entire weekend but with so many people and relatively so little time to spend with each individual it is an extra special blessing to meet with a Brother and or Sister in our own home (as we did) or even just meeting up for dinner or an event. But back to your point I look back to the period you speak of and I truly repent of the way I would feed the fire of adversity rather than at least make a patient, honest effort in understanding where others might be coming from. Perhaps they were unjustified and wrong but my attitude convicts me just as well. I was right, they were wrong, end of story. :P
You my friend were a true peacemaker during this trial attempting to bridge divides as you reminded us of exactly why we were communicating with each other in the first place. This has been seared into my mind and I have drawn on this lesson often since that time.
I have no doubt that the reason you were "caned" was that you would not allow yourself to be drawn into an "us against them" position, I'll admit being a bit frustrated by that at the time but the wisdom displayed by seeking understanding is not lost on me now.
The Lord has shown me many wonderful things, He brought me to BT where I learned much truth and gained valuable fellowship. The way to life is difficult and physical fellowship is very minimal and so this board is a beacon for God's elect. It is the fellowship and edifying found here that's like food for my soul, that's why I spend most of my time in this section of the forum. We have a oneness of the spirit that should be enjoyed and a love among ourselves that can be expressed through the internet as well as felt in our spirit.
Amen!
I can understand that some may feel burdened trying to read through and/or replying to posts on the forum, but if we've reached a point where that is so then we must take serious stock of what we are doing and more importantly, WHY we're doing it.
It is so easy to lose sight of the fact that any trials and/or tribulations no matter how severe or relatively minor are put into our paths to form us into Sons and Daughters of the Living God! The creator of all things has a personal interest in each and every one of us as individuals. It is too awesome to fully comprehend.
This place is our congregation, let's use it to edify and build up, to offer support & prayer to each other, to share what the Lord is showing us and to accept some reproof where needed (I certainly know the value of that), and this place will not be the house of blues, but the house of the rising Son (sorry couldn't resist that one) and then we can all bask in the warmth rather than shiver in the cold.
The Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit my brothers and sisters
House of the Rising Son! :D Love it, great pun because it is so appropriate. Perhaps I should have titled this thread "Forum Jazz" since there are so many great individual variations on a theme being brought forth.
I love the blues though (as I do most every musical form), the music ironically named Blues to me is anything but blue, but is exceptionally uplifting, full of hope and survival through sometimes very trying times.
Nelson
Thank you Nelson for another thoughtful post and especially for your friendship.
Peace,
Joe
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Thank you Joe, and everyone else. Very edifying, beneficial and humbling to be reminded as to why we are all here. This is very encouraging, and uplifting spiritually. All the glory is His.
Peace & Love
G.Driggs
All the glory is His!
Amen George, so true Brother, so true.
Peace,
Joe
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Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Thanks for sharing that great verse, Joe. That was the best part of your whole post. :)
Hi Extol,
The scriptures are certainly the most germane essence of any post or thread, there is nothing quite like having a familiar verse or verses come to life with a new understanding. ;)
Peace,
Joe
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Two thumbs up to all. Kat and Joe what a bonus you guys are. Forum family, what would I do with out you. God bless all of you with mercy, grace and peace. Roy
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To all who posted, what a wonderful thread. See what you started Roy! And it is good. There is another reason someone might drop out. I have a tendency to gather info and then get bored which is why I need teachers. I was never much for detail, never having had the patience for it. Also, when problems arise and I am overwhelmed I tend to QUIT GOD, hate to reach out and withdraw, that all or nothing attitude. Well, hot or cold if you like. Anyway, I do appreciate the moderators and everyone that comes on here and also miss them when it has been awhile. Judy
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I am determined to respond to everyone who took the time and effort to comment here, there have been quite a few things popping up that have restricted me from being able to do this in a timely manner but I do feel indebted to you all and even if this topic has become old news the desire to let you as individuals know my appreciation inspires me to continue......
Hi Marlene,
Thanks for your thoughtful post, I will respond in blue to the points that jumped out at me, you black, me blue;
I love all the post here. I agree so much with them. When, I first joined although I read for a year. I just could not get over my feelings for the people in Babylon. Ones, who I loved. But, I never understood Gods Good News or his plan for the whole world.
You have plenty of company Sister, most of us have had the same experience, I can't say I ever really bought into the hell doctrine but I was convinced of annihilation of those who would not "come to Jesus."
I have gone into one christian forum that teaches some of the things like Ray. That, lasted one day. It was total confusion every one talking there own mind and no scripture. I need the guidance with the scriptures. I make up a folder on scriptures you all have brought up in topics so I can remember them and help my bad memory from a stroke a year before coming in here. Now, I read in different versions to help my understanding.
This has been my experience as well in regard to visiting other UR Forums, a whole lot of feelings coupled with liberal interpretations of a single verse, I hold no animosity toward them but the experience was less than edifying (for me) as the debates prospered and thoughtful consideration suffered. All too often it was mini wars within the topics as folks shouted over each other ignoring some responses as they zeroed in on their "adversary" with laser precision. To me this (now) is both tedious and exhausting. There was a time though that I was guilty of doing the very same thing right here!
When, I first came in here I felt like a fish out of water. I felt misunderstood. Some, of the scriptures I was still seeing with blind eyes. You could have beat me up with them and I would not have understood. I thought, I was doing more harm then good by being in here. But, then God gave the desire to keep on learning and being patient with him and he would teach me and give me understanding.
Amen!
I am happy you were not driven away and that you persevered. Obviously the Spirit of our Lord directed and inspired you to test the spirits and trust in Him that your time spent here would bear fruit in your spiritual journey.
But, I love all of you. Someone often post about something I am going through that day or during the week. I love all the ones who can show me scriptures and then God opens my eyes. Just, a thought you might give on the scriptures. I know, I am a long ways off then many of you. But, now I know I am right where God wants me to be. I don't care about my bad memory. I don't care about my days of physical pain. I am just eager to learn what ever the good Lord lets me. I thank him every day and night for all of you. God has always enabled me to be a fighter when I was very ill working. I did my job as if God was standing there watching me. He was my boss. When, I became to ill to work, every bit of time I can I come in here and read my Bible all the time.
Isn't it incredible that so often a topic or even a post within a thread will absolutely nail something we have been contemplating, providing scriptures to meditate on and even giving us positive reinforcement that the experiences or thoughts we are having are also being felt by others? It is encouraging to know we are not losing our minds, or that even if we are at least we have company! :D
I cannot get enough of God period. That,s why I made copies of Ray's papers so I could read if I am laying down. My sleeping patterns are strange because of pain. But, I can talk to God or I can read . Or he gives me rest. Or he helps the pain. I know, God has made me a fighter.
Now this is something that amazes me constantly, I just cannot stop thinking about this stuff, morning, noon, evening, night, in my dreams/sleep, there is no escape, this is not of me or the result of some conscious decision of mine, that is for sure.
I always ask God to kick me in the rump if this becomes about me.
And He certainly will. ;) We should all really take comfort in this.
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye ********, and not sons (or daughters).
If, I am so sensitive and can't get over myself. I was senstive at first when I came in here. But, God got me over that. I know, of others who have left. I see there names in black. I pray for them. Then, I think what may have happened that they left. I have some I love who have pm me. They left and I do not know why. Could be for various reasons. But, I pray often for them. I think they might have passed away. Or, having money problems. I just pray and wait to see if God helps them to return.
It is always a joyful experience when they return, but there are so many reasons anyone might decide to leave or even feel compelled to leave, we should be comforted in the fact that being a member here is not a prerequisite for salvation! ;)
God has them right where He wants them, whether we (or they) like it or not. This earthly journey was not designed to be about what we want, it is about recognizing God's wisdom in all things and being faithful through bitter and sweet times.
Well, I did not plan on making a book about this. But, like Joe, after reading others who believe some like Ray they differ on many things. When , you read even some of there books you find they are not always matching up with scriptures. God has lead Ray with his Spirit. It is the only thing I found that goes into the deep things of Christ. It truely is Bible truths. It never ceases to amaze me when God increases my understanding. What, really amazes me is when I see him helping me to live it not just know it.
This dear Sister is the truly important matter, unless we are striving to live it we really are nothing more than (as Ray says) "religious hobbyists."
I hope we never loose this and I thank God for Ray and all of you. But, I also know if it should happen we will be ok cause God is in it all . This is a gift from God and I thank him. Yes, like Ray's said, that he is just a human. So, we all are. But, you are my Brothers and Sisters in Christ and I take this serious.
Beautiful post Marlene, thank you.
In His Love,
Marlene
Peace,
Joe
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It is always a joyful experience when they return, but there are so many reasons anyone might decide to leave or even feel compelled to leave, we should be comforted in the fact that being a member here is not a prerequisite for salvation! ;)
Great post Joe, I really needed to hear this for some reason.
Peace,Love G.Driggs
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Great post Marlene, we cant go wrong if we keep focused on Him always.
Pro 3:6 In all thy ways, acknowledge him, and, he, will make straight thy paths. (Rotherham)
Pro 4:18 The path of those who do what is right is like the first gleam of dawn. It shines brighter and brighter until the full light of day (NIrV)
Act 2:25 For David says this about him: 'I saw Adonai always before me, for he is at my right hand, so that I will not be shaken.
Act 2:26 For this reason, my heart was glad; and my tongue rejoiced; and now my body too will live on in the certain hope
Act 2:27 that you will not abandon me to Sh'ol or let your Holy One see decay.
Act 2:28 You have made known to me the ways of life; you will fill me with joy by your presence.' (CJB)
Peace & Love
G.Driggs
Hi George, you know if I keep up at this pace I just might finish responding to everyone by the time the Mobile 2009 Bible Conference begins....
The reason this is so important to me is that there have been times when I took this place for granted and was complacent and cavalier about an opportunity relatively few believers have been blessed with. Yes, ultimately this journey is a One on one walk with our Lord but since we are still flesh and blood and living in (but not of) this world words of encouragement and empathy can be just the spiritual tonic any of us might need today and all of us need from time to time.
The following two verses you provided especially jumped out at me;
Pro 3:6 In all thy ways, acknowledge him, and, he, will make straight thy paths. (Rotherham)
Pro 4:18 The path of those who do what is right is like the first gleam of dawn. It shines brighter and brighter until the full light of day (NIrV)
I used to think and we know there are many in (and out) of the churches that believe making "straight thy paths" (notice the plural?) means making our lives comfortable in the here and now, luxuries and a peaceful relatively pain free existence awaits us if only we acknowledge Him. For me this straightening of my own path (which of course is unique to me as your path is unique to you) means that the objective of God and His plan and purpose for us collectively and as individuals has become clearer in our understanding, not that it becomes a cakewalk but that we know the trials and tribulations of this life is the necessary knowledge of good and evil that we must know and experience to claim our full inheritance!
This experience "shines brighter and brighter" not because of all the shiny, glittering earthly successes we might receive but rather like what Paul wrote;
Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Peace,
Joe
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Thank you for the wonderful message Joe, which is warming my heart.
Bluzman
You are welcome Brother, all the responses and additions have warmed my heart as well, I truly value all of you.
Peace,
Joe
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George in black, Joe in blue....
Thanks Joe,
No, thank YOU George!
When i grow up i want to be able to write just like you.
:D Ha! The feeling is mutual Brother, you have given me so many opportunities to meditate on the profound truths of His Word in your posts.
I know that takes time and study and eating humble pie often. That humble pie i have learned to like the taste of, much better than pumpkin pie, which i do not like.
MMMMMM humble pie...... a little salt, baked by a Consuming Fire, and the ultimate result is perfection! ;)
(By the way I like pumpkin pie)
There is not part of your post, that i would not heartily endorse. Thanks for saying for me, what i cannot yet express as eloquently as you just did.
You do more than you realize.
It is a painful experience whenever someone gets offended or tired and leave without even a so long or goodbye. There really are so few people, in this Country of over 300 million population, that one can discuss the more profound Truths Of GOD'S Scripture.
Amen!
I think that is enough from me, except to add, all my BT sisthren and brethren are today, the only ones that i can even discuss The Scriptures with. That is without being regarded as a three headed monster, who hates GOD, and despises the Sacrifice Of Jesus Christ.
From one three headed monster to another; I agree 100%
LORD; how much longer,
This is my prayer as well.....
george.
Peace,
Joe
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BT, Ray and his teachings and my brothers and sisters in Christ - all of this is truly a precious gift from Daddy God. I have not been here long at all but this is a place where you can get the word of God in truth and love. You can drink of the living waters that refreshes your souls and renew your minds that brings about change; transformation from glory to glory to becoming sons and daughters of the Most High God in Daddy God's timing.
The journey of the heart is the less traveled road. Not many dare to go down these paths. There are hardships, heartbreaks, sickness, financial problems, losing family and friends over truth.. high cliffs, dry deserts, low valleys, dark caves, danger around corners... why do we go? Daddy God has chosen us to do and to will for His good pleasure. In His good pleasure is sweetest of fruit love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness and self control. The joy is unspeakable, peace that surpasses all understanding and love depths and heights that can not be measured. We are the living stones the body of Christ being fitted (assembled) together for such an awesome purpose. It is all of God. Glory be to His Name.
It is Daddy God that brought me here to fellowship with you with like minds and share and carrying one another burdens and to love all. You are my family. Each one of you God's unique masterpiece in progress. You are blessed and you all are a blessing to me. :)
In His Joy,
Bunni
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Dear Joe,
I always wish to share my heart and my thoughts on here but I know that I am just a babe. You are wise. God has blessed this forum with some wise and humble moderators, and pride has always been one of my problems!!;-) thank you for the balance you bring. There is a peace here because of it. I do not get to comment much, but I LOVE to read and sometimes ask questions. I also listen to the audios and videos from Ray and have been learning much. So thank you for this place and praise be to God for it! I hope I do not have to leave again! I missed it so!
Beth :)
Hello Beth,
Although I do appreciate your kind words I know that I have a very long road to travel before I could even use the word wise in describing myself.
I know there are quite a few people out there (members and guests alike) who have struggles with husbands, wives, relatives and friends who find many of the beliefs we share to be heretical even devilish. It can be a lonely journey at times but this is exactly how God designed it! Yes, it is good to have people we can relate to spiritually but the most important thing is our One on one relationship with Christ, the source of all the wisdom any of us might attain.
There is no doubt your particular situation has touched many people.
His Peace and Strength to you Sister,
Joe
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I have been here a couple of years. Everyone here seems ,to me , at different growth areas. At one time I stop posting and did stop reading but kept remembering the life that was here. So i came back to listen and read. It has taken me some time to get in part the message. I am probably one of those very mess up person that Christ has mercy upon and teaches and draws to Him. I feel very blessed. I know this forum is not perfect it has some issues. Jesus Christ is the perfect one., but i have so many too, and I am getting fed on this forum, Thank You JESUS!!!! so people coming and going there is a reason for that. God will bring those back whom He wants too. What my prayer is Lord give me the ability to know what is Your will and the strength to do it and to persevere. God bless peggy
Hi Peggy,
Yes we are all in "different growth areas" as even in the physical world no two things can occupy the same exact space it is true in our spiritual journey, but we are all in God's omnipresence at all times! We can never journey outside of His watchful eye.
I am right with you as far as being one who messes up often and relies on the mercy of Christ to continue in this spiritual walk, I can say confidently that we are not alone in that regard Sister!
Your prayer really does sum up what this experience should be all about.
Peace,
Joe
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Thank you for this post Joe and I want to add on only 1 thing for all of us:
Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Matt 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me [the Lord] with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mark 7:6 He [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
These posts that Joe, Craig, George, Nelson, and many others have created here and in times past, by the Will of God, are a true blessing. They speak to us directly to turn us away from our carnal attitudes and repent of who & what we are.
But they have to be more than words in our lives...it is not enough to say, 'Great post...I really need that', but then to fall away and back into carnal lusts of the heart. One would have been better to not say anything than to 'draw nigh with their lips, though their hearts are far away'. Aren't we all TIRED of the same run around...the same back-biting...the same silly doctrinal issues that are more about one's knowledge than their love of Christ?
Think about the children of Israel...'our admonition' [1 Cor 10:11]...even if you don't know or understand all the types/shadows that are present in the OT, there is one thing that is very obvious about the ancient Israelites that the scriptures harp on more than anything: THEY CONTINUALLY FELL AWAY FROM WHAT WAS PLEASING TO THE LORD...CONSISTENTLY! You don't have to be a biblical scholar to see that...and that's what WE have to stop doing as well. Otherwise, what's the point?
Now, we know that of ourselves, we can do nothing [John 15:5]...so let us look unto the Lord, as we are complete in Him [Col 2:10]. But THIS is what we need to repent of...this is what we need to ask him to work IN us...this change of who & what we are, completely. Otherwise, how are we any different...how are learning from the examples of the ancient Israelites?
Let us not be as that nation, hypocrites and back-sliding...the Lord has something BETTER for us [Heb 11:40]...if we don't repent and seek the Lord from these admonitions these members have shown us but only give lip service, we will not go further in our walk with Christ. Repent means to turn away from...to stop doing it...not just talk about it, but do it.
Thanks,
Marques
Dear Brother Marques,
There really isn't much I can add to your excellent message. The "doing" really is the hard part isn't it? I hope folks take what you wrote to heart, I know I have gained from it!
Peace,
Joe
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Thanks Joe for that post
I remember when God led me to the site,it has taken me almost a couple of months reading after work.
To be honset i am not into chic chatting, but most of the time get to the point kind of person,like so whats the
conclusion of the matter already.but i am learning slowly but surely ,to have balance in understanding
other non Scripture points ,chewing the fat so to speak.
I don't post much but I do quick scanning on the forum and read what i think is interesting.
This is just my personal thoughts at this time.
PS. It is good having this forum to come to with people who have the same goal as is on rays site.
Walt.
Hi Walt,
What you wrote defines exactly what keeps this place interesting as well as frustrating for me (I am quite sure I am not alone). Some folks are deliberate, circumspect and are not given to jump in with both feet before thoroughly evaluating a given situation. Often after a period of sorting through stupid and impetuous words and/or deeds of mine things will slow down and I realize that unbridled enthusiasm can breed impatience which gives birth to thoughtlessness which in turn can lead to a multitude of ungodly behaviors.
Impulsiveness has always been an issue for me and I can directly apply that trait to many problems I have experienced and caused, of course many bitter moments of self evaluation followed when even through my best effort self justification did not cut it.
During these periods I have wished (eventually began to pray) that I could be more like you have described yourself, unconcerned with making a splash, taking time to understand a matter without that feeling of anxiousness and a self imposed frenzy that has often caused me and those around me more trouble than is or was necessary.
Thankfully the Lord has been tapping me on the shoulder more often of late before I actually begin to allow my "energetic" old man take control of things, yes from time to time I still fail but it is recognized much earlier and my self justification skills have eroded immensely.
You might be asking "what the heck does this have to do with what was quoted by Walt?" ???
Well, I have learned (often the hard way) that when we react impulsively even to what could be considered a good thing and especially to things we find disagreeable we are very susceptible to the temptations of our adversary and I believe that is the reason patience is valued so highly throughout the scriptures.
No doubt Peter was full of good intentions but his impulsiveness sure earned him plenty of rebukes and hard lessons during his journey with Jesus.
John on the other hand (with a couple exceptions) displayed more of a trusting and patient attitude that certainly appeared to please our Lord.
Thank you for your response.
Peace,
Joe
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I couldn't help it. I had to check in. I'm glad I did. I've done a lot of praying for the last two days.
I'm still taking a break, but I realize that I can't and don't want to be away for a long period of time.
I know that I'm am in a trial, being tested and humbled.
I'm having personal issues that I wish I could share with just the forum.
I agree with, and share with all of the above post. I know that this is where God wants me to be. We have to have the fellowship. There is no where else we can do this.
Just letting everyone know that I'm here to stay.
There is much I could talk about right now, but this is Joe's thread, and a good one too.
One thing for sure is I am not a quitter. I don't mind putting my foot in my mouth when I say things on the forum.I have learned all too well that I have to make mistakes.I've made them all my life, but this is one place I can make them and be corrected in love and compassion and understanding and wisdom, etc.
Peace
Roy
Hey there Roy,
A bit of time has passed since you posted this and praise God the issues you referred to seem to have become less stressful and perhaps have begun to heal.
Your fellowship and openness are greatly appreciated!
Peace,
Joe
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BTW, the gospel is indeed bitter sweet. I dont even know where to begin in outlining that to someone else... >:(
Hi Kweli,
Unless they are living it Brother they will not understand. ;)
His Peace to you,
Joe
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I don't know what I would do without this place.
I may not post as often as I use to but I read quite often.
Sometimes the statements people make here need no addition from me!LOL
I thank God soooo much for you guys and gals!!
I thank God for the friendships I have established here that I need soooooo much!!
Thanks again for your insight Joe.
Your pretty precious to this forum man!!
Antaiwan
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Joe,
* I've had times of dispare with the loss of people I grew very fond of here, (who have left)
* I have felt anger at certain members whom I felt spoke with cruelty.
* I have had my thoughts and comments taken inncorrectly.
* I have been incorrect in my understanding, of what others struggle to articulate.
* I have changed my position and understanding of things because of the responses to my comments from others.
* Somethings I have not changed my understanding about and I'm still confused.
I do not know why some leave us, and some like myself stay. But I strongly agree with you and embrace that staying here is not a (religious physical act) prerequisite for being the Chosen among the Called. I'm truly tired of the "salesman manipulations" of every group to label and draw a circle around themselves as "the only true group"
I'm sandwiched tightly with one dear Friend whose path is now celebrating the Saturday Sabbath/No Pork/using the correct Name of Yashua/Jesus, basically adopting the OT laws (physically) But also with the insight of no Trinity, God is in control (predestination), and I think UR is also believed.
On the other side I have others who are desperate to set me right on the Trinity, the fear of Hell, no Free Will, if we don't take the gift of Salvation in this life by choice it is a done deal. I've found it interesting that when speaking about these issues with scriptures, both camps end up expressing fear... (well I don't want to eat pork just in case).. (What if your wrong about Hell just in case).
I don't want to live my life here motivated by fear (just in case) I want to live and move and have my being directed by Faith.
The Fear or Respect that I live with today, is understanding that I may be a vessel of dishonor and within myself is not the power to decide it. It is also humbling to know that of all the creative dynamic souls I know and admire. ordinary me could have a place to be in the first reserection...WOW!
Although I will endover to speak the truth of the scriptures with boldness (as I understand them) I no longer feel the arrogance that I need to defend and stick up for our Heavenly Father God. He is very well capable of defending himself. Sometimes my ego gets in there still. What people believe... has no reflection on ME personally. It is God who gives eyes to see and not to see. I'm confident that I still have much blindness myself.
The point of every interaction with others is to find what never fails..... Love.
I see and have learned that simple but profound truth here. And although the beast my still peek his head in here, I'm so very grateful to have had the privilege to bump spirits with all of you.
I haven't had much to share lately, but this post inspired my mouth to run over...
YSIC,
Brenda
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Well said Brenda, well said.
Marques
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Hello,
Thanks to Joe for starting this thread, I've been following the Posts of the thread, but haven't commented, until now. I generally don't comment as often, as in the past, unless I really have something to contribute and if a particular point is already expressed that summarizes my thoughts on that subject.
Marques made a fine contribution and many others, as well. The thoughts expressed by Brenda seem to summarize my perspective regarding the whole religious/spiritual subject. See some of her comments copied and pasted from her Post in blue, particular points, I share as well.
I do not know why some leave us, and some like myself stay. But I strongly agree with you and embrace that staying here is not a (religious physical act) prerequisite for being the Chosen among the Called. I'm truly tired of the "salesman manipulations" of every group to label and draw a circle around themselves as "the only true group"
I don't want to live my life here motivated by fear (just in case) I want to live and move and have my being directed by Faith.
The Fear or Respect that I live with today, is understanding that I may be a vessel of dishonor and within myself is not the power to decide it. It is also humbling to know that of all the creative dynamic souls I know and admire. ordinary me could have a place to be in the first reserection...WOW!
Although I will endover to speak the truth of the scriptures with boldness (as I understand them) I no longer feel the arrogance that I need to defend and stick up for our Heavenly Father God. He is very well capable of defending himself. Sometimes my ego gets in there still. What people believe... has no reflection on ME personally. It is God who gives eyes to see and not to see. I'm confident that I still have much blindness myself
The above comments in blue of Brenda's, in particular, for the most part express my perspective on matters. Due to time constraints, I was unable to join the conversation at an earlier time. One thing, I'd like to express, as mentioned from Joe's initial list regarding people's complaints prior to leaving the Forum, the point he made regarding certain members that tend to gravitate in conversation and closeness, this tends to happen, not only inside the forum, but outside, as well. I guess one might say, it's only natural(probably Carnal), but fact, no less. Of course there is a Scripture that mentions widening out in ones fellowship with other believers, but couldn't find it. I admit that I'm guilty of being drawn to conversation with particular members, especially when we tend to think alike with these members, admittedly it's the path of least resistance.
Kind Regards, Samson.
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I'm sandwiched tightly with one dear Friend whose path is now celebrating the Saturday Sabbath/No Pork/using the correct Name of Yashua/Jesus, basically adopting the OT laws (physically) But also with the insight of no Trinity, God is in control (predestination), and I think UR is also believed.
God leads us down these paths to learn our lessons and change us into His image. Your friend may someday (soon?) realize the futility of following those laws in the flesh. They may, like me, continue to follow some of God's physical laws, like not eating unclean things, not lying, and not sleeping with my neighbor's wife. I think (hope?) that we don't do that for the wrong reasons.
Just remember that God plans the paths, and keeps us on them exactly how long He plans to - no more, no less, and He always has a good reason. You may doubt, but never despair.
BTW, I use not eating pork as an excellent segue into spiritual discussions at least once or twice a month, for example.
Steve
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Joe, Nelson and all others who have posted,
Thanks Joe for this post. Your insight is always a light unto my path. I have been on vacation for the past 2 weeks and have had little time to visit the forum. The hours spent tonight have been such a joy and have refreshed me much more than my vacation.
It is such a blessing to spend time in this forum and to share with my brothers and sisters in CHRIST in discussion, in open questions and in true fellowship. As Samson said, so well, "we don't know why some leave" to which I might add but we do know why so many stay. It is all of GOD and it is HIM who gives eyes to see and to not see.
The greatest thing about this forum is that we all agree that it is all of HIM and to HIM is all praise and honor due.
In HIM,
Phil3:10
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Thanks Joe for replying to so many , its shows me much control patience and a good light to see and a second thanks for this blockbuster post
I have learned much from all who reply ed .
Walt
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Hi Samson,
Of course there is a Scripture that mentions widening out in ones fellowship with other believers, but couldn't find it.
I think that you mean this one, correct me if I'm wrong,
- "YOU are not cramped for room within us, but YOU are cramped for room in YOUR own tender affections. So, as a recompense in return-I speak as to children-YOU, too, widen out" (2 Cor 6:12, 13 NWT)
Here's the same verses in some other translations,
- "Ye are not straitened in us, but are straitened in your hearts' affections; Howbeit, by way of the like recompense-as, unto children, I speak, be enlarged, even, ye." (REV)
- "Not distressed are you in us, yet you are distressed in your compassions. Now, as a recompense in kind (as to children am I saying this), you also be broadened!" (CLV)
- "We are not holding back on our love for you, but you are holding back on your love for us. I speak to you as I would speak to my own children. Please make room in your hearts for us." (CEV)
What great verses and timely reminders, thanks for that Samson. I'll end with this verse,
- "Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart" (1 Pe 1:22)
Amen to that!
Grace and peace to you
Nelson
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Nelson,
Thanking for finding that Scripture regarding: " Widening Out. " Also, enjoyed your Testimony on that other Thread with Link regarding your leaving the JW's. Sometimes, I wonder if they used that widening out Scripture to keep Congregational members from getting too close, so as to not disturb their control of the rank/file members. Just a passing thought.
Kind Regards, Samson.
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Hi all! What a wonderful thread! I am so blessed reading everyones' posts. Thank you.
I used to post all the time and love all the cyber-family I have "met" thru this forum. I don't post as much and as new ones come on it is OK for me to not feel I have to post. I come on almost every day and try to keep up w what is going on. I love the fellowship here. But it never fails to amaze me, after all these years, when people post excerpts from Ray, that I realize why we are all here. It is the truths that we learn from Ray. That is what bonds me to all of you.
The mods have been wonderful. I, like Nelson and Joe, remember the old days. trust us folks, the forum "rules and regulations" are to help us not hinder us. Pray for the moderators and for each other. Lift Ray up. Rejoice in what God has done and Will do.
Love,
gena
Hi Gena,
Earlier in this thread I was kidding when I said I would respond to every post even if it takes me until the November Mobile Conference to do it, now it is starting to look like I just might need all of that time to fulfill that statement.
Although I still post frequently compared to some I don't comment nearly as much as I once did as I am now content more often than not to observe and meditate on what others are presently experiencing. There is (and really never was) a reason for me to toss in my 2 cents every time a new topic is presented.
Yes, there does seem to be a special connection with many of our brothers and sisters here, often I have been struck by the feeling of "meeting an old friend for the first time" when I have had the opportunity and pleasure of visiting with members in person either on our own time in our own cities or at one of the Conferences. I guess that is a major reason I am surprised and perhaps a bit saddened when people I have had this contact with suddenly, without any explanation stop communicating. But as with every other mystery I am quite sure there will come a day when we will understand.
Peace,
Joe
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Speaking for myself only, I continue to read several times a day however I have not felt like posting for quite some time. I didn't grow up in a religious family. I have almost no background in religion. About four years ago (32 at the time), I happened to see a seventh day adventist show on TV that really struck a cord with me. The next Saturday I found myself sitting in a SDA church, quietly singing songs and praying. It did not take me long to get fired up and I would literally spend every free moment (many times until 5 or 6 in the morning) reading and researching everything to do with God, the bible, SDA etc. etc. I gained a huge amount of knowledge in a short period of time. Lots of knowledge (but as Joe said) no wisdom.
It was around this time that I discovered Ray's site and subsequently this forum. Anyway, to make a short story long, I used to post my opinions,quote scriptures, discuss and offer advice to friends and family, pray with my kids and was proud to be enlightened, until one day I realized that I wasn't nearly as "enlightened" as I thought I was. I suddenly became quite embarrassed (and remain so) about my whole phony christian life. So here I sit, a closet believer, afraid to discuss or even offer an opinion on anything Godly (can't even pray with my kids anymore). I am in a bit of a dark place right now, as I am sure many of you have been, but am sure that one day I will snap out of it. I don't know if I have ever asked for prayer before (if I did it was fake) but I do ask in earnest right now.
Anyway, I am not even sure why I decided to write this or if it even adds anything to this thread but I just felt like I needed to say this.
Scott
Hi Scott,
Sorry it took so long to respond to your post, but sometimes I am only capable of reading as there are periods when way too many things are running through my head to put down a paragraph that would make any sense.
I too spent some time with the 7th Day Adventists, it was a long time ago and it was really only for a couple years but coming from a Catholic background where religion was merely going through some rituals on Sundays for 30 to 60 minutes the Adventists seemed to present a religion that was robust, alive and rooted in the bible. I fell away, rather dramatically actually and dove head first back into a pleasure seeking carnal lifestyle that almost killed me a few times and could have left me serving a long prison term if God had not protected me from myself.
But going back to my time with the Adventists I spent many days when I read my bible for hours upon hours as well as the other "church" literature, more than a few people (my parents included) thought I had gone off the deep end with all that bible thumping, perhaps poor Joe had ingested one too many tabs of acid or some other hallucinogen and was now wandering about in never never land.....
Anyway, that period of study time really had paid dividends decades later when I "stumbled upon" or was "dragged to" Bible Truths, although I am not capable of quoting chapter and verse very often I did retain more bible memory that I realized, but this time when reading the articles the verses actually came alive!
I went through that period after learning the real Good News of wanting to share it with anyone and everyone within earshot, I became a clanging cymbal, an out of tune trumpet....
I also experience those darker, wilderness periods you speak of, they are not especially pleasant but when we recognize it for what it is, an opportunity to lean on and grow closer to our Lord it should provide an oasis of comfort in a hostile environment. He is the One who is our truest best friend wherever we are whatever circumstances we face, we can be thankful that He has chosen to correct us in the here and now perhaps preparing us for a great glorious work that is yet to come!
Peace to you Brother,
Joe
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Scott, I am touched by your post, and say with confidence that I know why you decided to write what you did. Its the choice that God wanted you to make, and God wants us to pray for you. Its not at all complicated as you may think it is. God has you where He wants you. We are no different than you. You are where you are for us, and us for you, and God for all of us and them.
Scott, its when we get into that dark place as you say you are that God is working a wonderful work; about to bring in some light into your life. God just brought me out of the closet. It may have been a different closet, but it was a closet non the less.
Sounds like God just let a little light into your closet, otherwise you wouldn't have made a post, and asked for prayer. I'm excited for you and will pray for you right now and give thanks to Father God that His will is being done in your life.
Peace
Roy
Hello Roy,
This post of yours is a beautiful testimony of empathy, drawn from personal trials, I know of really no other way to gain this trait other than experience. This earthly journey, the paths our Father in heaven has deemed necessary for His Sons and Daughters to walk and stumble on does produce a character that could not be attained by a life of leisure and pleasure.
We read of Jesus who was perfect in spirit also needed time alone with His (our) Father, sometimes in the wilderness, other times on a mountain where He could spend One on One time conversing with the only One who really knew Him, His plan and His purpose.
He is our example so we should not be surprised or discouraged when we need this too.
Peace,
Joe
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Dear joe,
i pray that there is a november bible conference this year for many, many reasons. one of which is i look forward to an opportunity to see you again and give you a big ole' brotherly/sisterly hug. you have been such an inspiration to all of us at this forum, and to me inparticular. in your reply to scott you mentioned that your family members thought you had ingested one too many tabs of acid or some other hallucinogen and that you had gone off the deep end and was wandering in never, never land. i just got home from visiting with my own momma for 5 days, at my childhood home. my momma and i were sitting at the dinner table eating lunch. we had been talking about the upcoming 5 yr. anniversary of my dad's unexpected death. my momma asked me "claudia, what do you think your daddy is doing right now?" i said, "i will tell you if you truly want to know." she then said, "well, tell me if you think you know so much." i told her, "it's not that i know so much, it's that i have cried out to God our Father to explain some of the questions i had and He has been opening my eyes to His Truths." i said, "daddy isn't doing anything momma, he is dead." i gave her scripture to back up this Truth. she just sat there looking off into space as if trying to understand what i was saying, but, i have spoken to her (and other family members) before about some of these Truths, but they fell on deaf ears. being the "black sheep" in my family all of my life, walking through those deserts of drugs, and more drugs, sex before marriage, etc. etc. it is like anything i have to say regarding what i have been shown by God are discounted because of those days when my mind and actions were clouded in a drugged haze and a lost wandering (but our Father knew i was wandering by His drawing me to Him). like, why would God Almighty show me anything He has not shown them (especially since they go to church and i do not). anyway, got a little off topic joe, but i just wanted to say that i too have experienced prejudice from family members and friends because of the times i was so far away from His Truths (but all the while right where He wanted me to be). and, to tell you how you have been such a blessing to me.
claudia
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i have spoken to her (and other family members) before about some of these Truths, but they fell on deaf ears. being the "black sheep" in my family all of my life, walking through those deserts of drugs, and more drugs, sex before marriage, etc. etc. it is like anything i have to say regarding what i have been shown by God are discounted because of those days when my mind and actions were clouded in a drugged haze and a lost wandering (but our Father knew i was wandering by His drawing me to Him). like, why would God Almighty show me anything He has not shown them (especially since they go to church and i do not).
Just some scriptures I thought of when reading your comments...your words testify and agree to what the scriptures tell us of our lot in life. Following an example, indeed...
Pet 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Matt 13:54-58 And when He [Jesus] was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. And He did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
Mark 6:2-4 ...when the sabbath day was come, He [Jesus] began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but [Gk. 'except'] in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.
Luke 4:24 ...He [Jesus] said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country
John 15:17-19 These things I command you, that ye love one another. If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Marques
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Dear joe,
i pray that there is a november bible conference this year for many, many reasons. one of which is i look forward to an opportunity to see you again and give you a big ole' brotherly/sisterly hug.
claudia
Hi Claudia,
I am very much looking forward to the Conference, and that "big ole hug." :D
Do you there is a possibility that the following just might apply to folks like us?
1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
Speaking for myself I can't make any claim on the chosen part but I sure can identify with the rest of it! (foolish, base & weak, and have been despised more than once as well)
Peace to you Sister,
Joe
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Two thumbs up to all. Kat and Joe what a bonus you guys are. Forum family, what would I do with out you. God bless all of you with mercy, grace and peace. Roy
The feeling is mutual Brother Roy, I thank God for my Brothers and Sisters here constantly.
Peace,
Joe
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Anyway, to make a short story long, I used to post my opinions,quote scriptures, discuss and offer advice to friends and family, pray with my kids and was proud to be enlightened, until one day I realized that I wasn't nearly as "enlightened" as I thought I was.
Man I can identify with that. When I was in the babalonian system I fancied myself a teacher. I had all the sects doctrines down (AOG) and could argue scripture and 'win' debates with the best of them. But I didn't know as much as what I thought I did and Ray's teachings harmonized the scriptures and blew me out of the water. It seemed at the time that so many scriptures were in contradiction to others...and I knew that couldn't be the case. Being yet carnal (and still way to carnal btw) I couldn't perceive the spiritual. I am more than satisfied now with pretty much keeping my mouth shut and learning the lessons God has for me to learn. It's all in his timing anyway and what both a revelation and relief that really is in the long run.
Hi Arion,
My wife and I still can get a laugh from the first night I stumbled onto Bible Truths and Ray's articles.
I have an office on the second floor of our house where I have my library, computer, etc. My wife has her own office directly below mine on the first floor, well after I started reading about the "no hell" and some of the other stuff she would hear me shouting Wow! Fantastic! Awesome!
She was busy doing her own work but would shout up every now and then asking "is everything ok?" Yeah, yeah, just found a very cool site.
I must have jumped up and yelled once too often because she eventually ran upstairs at about 11 P.M (I normally go to bed about 10, she stays up later) demanding to see what was engrossing me and inspiring me to these excited outbursts. I could see by the look on her face that her initial thoughts as to the source of my joy was not exactly honorable. She butted her head in front of mine glaring at the monitor, saw Bible Truths at the top of the page and meekly said; "Oh."
I asked her what her problem was and she said; "I thought you might be looking at porn." :o
In a sense, in the mind's eye of a traditional Southern Baptist (which my wife was at that time) Ray's articles could very well be perceived as "religious pornography" but I could see her relief that my screen was not filled with images of naked people thrashing about! ;D
It was ironic that after years of her hassling me about attending church with her I actually had started going just to make her happy two weeks prior to that unforgettable night. The following Sunday I went with her but the preacher started a 3 part sermon entitled "The Two Compartments Of Hell" even the title of this inspired an audible groan from me, which earned me a rather sharp elbow into my rib cage. He talked about this 2 Hells theory, even admitting there was little to no scripture backing it up but just the same he knew it to be true. ::)
It was at that point I told her either I leave now or I am going to challenge this nonsense, knowing me as well as she does she knew this was not an idle threat so at that point we walked out of the church with me muttering and her elbow drilling my side.
Once we were outside I got one heck of a glare along with the words; "It took me years to get you to attend church with me and only a few days for that stupid Bible Truths to pull you right back out! ;D
Amen!
Peace,
Joe
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Joe,
Just a little compliment on your writing style. I always enjoy reading any of your comments; they are sprinkled with honesty, transparency, truth, patience, and humor. Thank you! You are truly an inspiration to me.
Angie
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Hi Joe
A couple of years ago I noticed the turnover here on the forum. It kind of shocked me, How can one leave the mountaintop? Did they leave for something better, and if they did why didn't they tell us? Now it just does not bother me, mainly because I know God is sovereign. The secondary reason is Paul describing 'all the churches in asia have deserted me.' Even after knowing the truth, the true truth, believers have been leaving the word for thousnads of years. I don't get it. And that is fine.
Askseeknock
Charles
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Hi Joe
A couple of years ago I noticed the turnover here on the forum. It kind of shocked me, How can one leave the mountaintop? Did they leave for something better, and if they did why didn't they tell us? Now it just does not bother me, mainly because I know God is sovereign. The secondary reason is Paul describing 'all the churches in asia have deserted me.' Even after knowing the truth, the true truth, believers have been leaving the word for thousnads of years. I don't get it. And that is fine.
Askseeknock
Charles
Maybe though,they aren't leaving the Truth. If they had their feelings hurt or if they were shot down when they posted, that might cause them to not partake of the unlove that was shown them. Just a thought.
hugs,meee
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Hi Joe
A couple of years ago I noticed the turnover here on the forum. It kind of shocked me, How can one leave the mountaintop? Did they leave for something better, and if they did why didn't they tell us? Now it just does not bother me, mainly because I know God is sovereign. The secondary reason is Paul describing 'all the churches in asia have deserted me.' Even after knowing the truth, the true truth, believers have been leaving the word for thousnads of years. I don't get it. And that is fine.
Askseeknock
Charles
Maybe though,they aren't leaving the Truth. If they had their feelings hurt or if they were shot down when they posted, that might cause them to not partake of the unlove that was shown them. Just a thought.
hugs,meee
Hi Charles,
This is one of the reasons I started this topic, I am sure there are more than a few who have wondered why people who seemed to have found fellowship and comfort even some spiritual nourishment here suddenly disappear, it was also meant to speak to those who may have left but still check in as a "guest" from time to time.
In my very first post in this thread I mentioned or should I say speculated on some of the reasons they may have left, I felt pretty sure that some of them experienced the same feelings I myself have had periodically. As Ray has said repeatedly being a member here or even a reader of Bible Truths has no direct determination on one's salvation, their elect status or whether they are chosen or not, if God has chosen you He will provide the path that leads you to the first resurrection or better yet to the "change" without tasting death.
Perhaps these folks who have moved on were placed here for the specific purpose of teaching us patience, empathy, longsuffering, godliness, brotherly love, etc. Shouldn't we continue to pray for their spiritual growth and peace as we pray for our own selves, families and friends?
His Peace to you Brother Charles,
Joe
Hi meee! (I say that every morning when I wake up and look in the mirror) ;)
Your point is well taken as there certainly have been times when we all have not shown the patience of Christ toward some who for whatever reason came into this fellowship. I know I have been guilty of jumping to conclusions about the motives of people who just might have a style of communication that I do not find to be easily discernible or particularly inviting. I have come to realize that my own style has and does put some people on the defensive or even inspires them to refrain from ever commenting on things I might write. We all find some people more in tune with us and our present condition more than we can relate to others, on the other hand our perception of others is actually due to our present condition.
Yes, there have been some intemperate statements made in response to questions and thoughts people have posted but more often than not there were also sympathetic responses mingled in too, I have noticed that some will only note the negative, some will acknowledge the positive but will attempt pitting one against the other and then there will be some who are mature enough in spirit to recognize there will never be a perfect place to gather while we are all still in this flesh, this body of sin and death.
That is why we are called to be overcomers!
I think there has also been some resentment (totally understandable) that some people feel when their posts, comments, feelings are not acknowledged, they feel ignored. I do not respond to every topic and sometimes in retrospect I feel as if I have contributed to someone experiencing this emptiness, I could have easily wrote a word or two but for whatever reason (there are many and laziness certainly comes to mind) I didn't.
Thank you for your observation, it is my hope that all of us pay closer attention to and have empathy for all the sisters and brothers who come across our paths.
Peace,
Joe
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Joe,
Just a little compliment on your writing style. I always enjoy reading any of your comments; they are sprinkled with honesty, transparency, truth, patience, and humor. Thank you! You are truly an inspiration to me.
Angie
Dear Angie,
Thank you for the generous and kind words.
Peace to you Sister,
Joe
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To all who posted, what a wonderful thread. See what you started Roy! And it is good. There is another reason someone might drop out. I have a tendency to gather info and then get bored which is why I need teachers. I was never much for detail, never having had the patience for it. Also, when problems arise and I am overwhelmed I tend to QUIT GOD, hate to reach out and withdraw, that all or nothing attitude. Well, hot or cold if you like. Anyway, I do appreciate the moderators and everyone that comes on here and also miss them when it has been awhile. Judy
Hi Judy,
I also tend to run hot and cold in my participation and dedication, sometimes I study, pray & post with a manic fervor and other times I either only observe and contemplate or totally withdraw. :-\
You know there is hope even for folks like us; ;)
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Peace,
Joe
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To all who posted, what a wonderful thread. See what you started Roy! And it is good. There is another reason someone might drop out. I have a tendency to gather info and then get bored which is why I need teachers. I was never much for detail, never having had the patience for it. Also, when problems arise and I am overwhelmed I tend to QUIT GOD, hate to reach out and withdraw, that all or nothing attitude. Well, hot or cold if you like. Anyway, I do appreciate the moderators and everyone that comes on here and also miss them when it has been awhile. Judy
Hi Judy,
I also tend to run hot and cold in my participation and dedication, sometimes I study, pray & post with a manic fervor and other times I either only observe and contemplate or totally withdraw. Undecided
You know there is hope even for folks like us; Wink
Ecclesiastes 3:1 There is a time for everything, a season for every activity under heaven.
3:7 A time to tear and a time to mend. A time to be quiet and a time to speak up.
All is of God :)
Angie
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Hi...
& some times. there are those of us who do not frame thier words . or write in a way that some people can allway.s understand . Dyslexia. autism. & learning difficaltes .even social skills .lack of . & explaning them selfs . & some who are different . will ...not... be accepted . .
so allso put.s people off . because they are inadequate . being different would be one of the hardest things to contend with . & that i know is real ....
...noeleena...
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Hi...
& some times. there are those of us who do not frame thier words . or write in a way that some people can allway.s understand . Dyslexia. autism. & learning difficaltes .even social skills .lack of . & explaning them selfs . & some who are different . will ...not... be accepted . .
so allso put.s people off . because they are inadequate . being different would be one of the hardest things to contend with . & that i know is real ....
...noeleena...
noeleena,
Truer words could not have been said.Thank you for reminding all of us here. :)
Peace...Mark
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Hi...
& some times. there are those of us who do not frame thier words . or write in a way that some people can allway.s understand . Dyslexia. autism. & learning difficaltes .even social skills .lack of . & explaning them selfs . & some who are different . will ...not... be accepted . .
so allso put.s people off . because they are inadequate . being different would be one of the hardest things to contend with . & that i know is real ....
...noeleena...
noeleena,
your post speaks volumes to me and is a reminder of how we must always be loving and never judging. i know that framing words and expressing oneself can be difficult as i have witnessed firsthand how learning difficulties, such as autism, can create frustration when trying to express oneself. the words we type on this forum are just words, unless they reflect vision, love, and compassion. your words are true and from your heart.
claudia
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Thanks guys for taking the time to address what I said. WHEW! I thought maybe I was the only one who could turn off and on. That helps. Also I get so involved and I have so much to do, I have to make choices at times. I would love to sit at this computer day and night but then I would get overwhelmed with what I should be doing. I also have 4 children who are always sending their kids my way, plus the 2 blind guys. I also get very tense when I sit too long and turn into a whirling dervish. I peep into here very much but just read until I see someone very needful of attention, again choices. I think you guys do a wop up job, don't be to hard on yourselves. Love, Judy
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One very sweet thing about this forum is that there is always someone to share a smile with, a tear with and even a good belly laugh with! Everyone is right there for you whenever you need them..I say this from experience!
Kathy ;) :-*
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BT, Ray and his teachings and my brothers and sisters in Christ - all of this is truly a precious gift from Daddy God. I have not been here long at all but this is a place where you can get the word of God in truth and love. You can drink of the living waters that refreshes your souls and renew your minds that brings about change; transformation from glory to glory to becoming sons and daughters of the Most High God in Daddy God's timing.
The journey of the heart is the less traveled road. Not many dare to go down these paths. There are hardships, heartbreaks, sickness, financial problems, losing family and friends over truth.. high cliffs, dry deserts, low valleys, dark caves, danger around corners... why do we go? Daddy God has chosen us to do and to will for His good pleasure. In His good pleasure is sweetest of fruit love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness and self control. The joy is unspeakable, peace that surpasses all understanding and love depths and heights that can not be measured. We are the living stones the body of Christ being fitted (assembled) together for such an awesome purpose. It is all of God. Glory be to His Name.
It is Daddy God that brought me here to fellowship with you with like minds and share and carrying one another burdens and to love all. You are my family. Each one of you God's unique masterpiece in progress. You are blessed and you all are a blessing to me. :)
In His Joy,
Bunni
Dear Bunni,
There is nothing I can add to your uplifting post except;
Thank you!
His Peace to you Sister,
Joe
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Antaiwan in black, Joe in blue;
I don't know what I would do without this place.
I know the feeling Brother!
I may not post as often as I use to but I read quite often.
Any time you feel ready to start again it will be very much appreciated, in the mean time keep your eyes set on the most important thing humanity has ever been given, our Lord and Savior and be mindful of the path He has laid out for you.
Sometimes the statements people make here need no addition from me!LOL
Ditto! Absolutely true, more often than not I find any addition from me is quite redundant.
I thank God soooo much for you guys and gals!!
I thank God for the friendships I have established here that I need soooooo much!!
Amen Antaiwan, I have found that it is sometimes easy to take this place for granted because it is not perfectly perfect (how is that for redundancy?) but there is definitely more to BT than an oasis from our day to day worlds, it is also a place to learn and practice patience, temperance and other spiritual attributes. If we cannot do here surrounded by believers how can we expect to in the hostile environments the world presents?
Thanks again for your insight Joe.
Your pretty precious to this forum man!!
Antaiwan
Thank you for the generous and kind words.
Peace,
Joe
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We all have different talents and skills or Spiritual gifts but we are one body with one Spirit.
I use to be shy about playing a music instrument in the presence of more talented musicians. I would be looking at an instrument at the music store, thinking about buying it, and they would plug it in to the amp; now the whole store can hear it, and everyone in there can play the heck out of a guitar. The guy says try it out, I would say, "you play it", or I would turn the volume down hoping they couldn't hear it as well.
I'm not sure what brought me out of that, but now I will sit in the music store for long periods of time playing. It just doesn't bother me in the least. Sometimes someone will get an instrument and start jammin with me. A lot of times Ive been asked what I'm playing; sounds good, gives me some ideas to a song Ive been working on, or I never thought about using those chords like that. Just different things that would inspire them and vise verse.
Its amazing how millions of arrangements can be made with only seven notes in music.
My point here is that every note is important just as everyone here, and their voice. Some notes and voices are brighter than others or sustained or muted, etc. but we need to know and hear all the notes and voices that make up a song. One note or chord or voice is the beginning of something new.
All of us are like music notes regardless of how small the sound might seem to some of us. Its like Ray says, "you have to pay attention to the words."
Ive been around musicians that were so good, but puffed up about it, they just couldn't find anything interesting or even want to hear anyone else that isn't as good as they are. Well we shouldn't be that way because we are one body. We need to hear from each other.
I want to want to be interested in every word that someone has to say. How can we put a great song together if we don't listen to, or play our note?
I'm not good at quoting Scripture but I can usually put a story together that connects to Scripture. Its just the way I live it.
Sorry if my reply doesn't make any sense to anyone.
No one needs to be shy about sounding off. We miss out on an opportunity, and so do you.
I just posted something that might sound funny to some, and non interesting to some, etc., but it just doesn't matter to me because my note or chord is just as important as anyone else s. Its just the making of a different song that's all; presented in a way that is easy for me.
The forum is the jam room. We are the notes. We need to hear all the notes to make a great great song.
OK, I'm through.
PS. Its a great jam room. I'm thankful and blessed to be here.
Oh! and I am on topic if you listen to the notes and chords.
Peace
Roy
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Roy! That is so great! I guess that's why I love it here! Almost everyone knows that I am all about words, I love the sound of words I love to talk...don't really like the sound of my own voice, but talking is what I do best!! When it comes to this keyboard under my fingers it is a window to the world to me!! I spend a lot of my day writing words! (When I'm not actually talking!!) :D God has given me such a gift here at BT--words to read and words to write!! I love everyone here as my dearest brothers and sisters. Most of you I really think of as a part of me! We are all in Christ so we are all a part of each other. We are members in this one body, members together and one in Christ!
Kathy ;) :-*
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Hi Kathy,
You play that keyboard very well. Bluzman
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You made me smile, Bluzman!!
Kathy :D ;)
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We all have different talents and skills or Spiritual gifts but we are one body with one Spirit.
I use to be shy about playing a music instrument in the presence of more talented musicians. I would be looking at an instrument at the music store, thinking about buying it, and they would plug it in to the amp; now the whole store can hear it, and everyone in there can play the heck out of a guitar. The guy says try it out, I would say, "you play it", or I would turn the volume down hoping they couldn't hear it as well.
I'm not sure what brought me out of that, but now I will sit in the music store for long periods of time playing. It just doesn't bother me in the least. Sometimes someone will get an instrument and start jammin with me. A lot of times Ive been asked what I'm playing; sounds good, gives me some ideas to a song Ive been working on, or I never thought about using those chords like that. Just different things that would inspire them and vise verse.
Its amazing how millions of arrangements can be made with only seven notes in music.
My point here is that every note is important just as everyone here, and their voice. Some notes and voices are brighter than others or sustained or muted, etc. but we need to know and hear all the notes and voices that make up a song. One note or chord or voice is the beginning of something new.
All of us are like music notes regardless of how small the sound might seem to some of us. Its like Ray says, "you have to pay attention to the words."
Ive been around musicians that were so good, but puffed up about it, they just couldn't find anything interesting or even want to hear anyone else that isn't as good as they are. Well we shouldn't be that way because we are one body. We need to hear from each other.
I want to want to be interested in every word that someone has to say. How can we put a great song together if we don't listen to, or play our note?
I'm not good at quoting Scripture but I can usually put a story together that connects to Scripture. Its just the way I live it.
Sorry if my reply doesn't make any sense to anyone.
No one needs to be shy about sounding off. We miss out on an opportunity, and so do you.
I just posted something that might sound funny to some, and non interesting to some, etc., but it just doesn't matter to me because my note or chord is just as important as anyone else s. Its just the making of a different song that's all; presented in a way that is easy for me.
The forum is the jam room. We are the notes. We need to hear all the notes to make a great great song.
OK, I'm through.
PS. Its a great jam room. I'm thankful and blessed to be here.
Oh! and I am on topic if you listen to the notes and chords.
Peace
Roy
Hi Roy,
I really enjoyed reviewing and contemplating your post, over and over. If anyone gives this more than a perfunctory view they will see many parables contained within the words and examples you speak of.
The world/universe and every thing and everybody who have been a part of of it through the ages have been the symphony orchestra being conducted by the Master Composer and Conductor. Every thing, everybody and every experience will culminate into a philharmonic orchestra exemplifying the genius and glory of our Creator.
In this time of imperfection sometimes or should I say often the tones are discordant and senseless because of our present condition, perhaps like woodwinds, brass, string, percussion, etc. practicing and perfecting their particular parts simultaniously within the same hall. To the immature or inexperienced listener it may seem to be nothing but undisciplined, incoherent noise but the Master Composer/Conductor knows that when each section, each musician has perfected his/her own part then and only then will the entire orchestra be capable of producing the desired result.
Yes, it is true that there are only seven notes, but the octaves are theoretically infinite.
One day we will have "ears to hear" it all! ;)
Thank you for the very thought provoking post.
Peace,
Joe
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Roy and Joe,
These posts just draw me into thinking about all of these things. How Great is our Creator?
Play a little guitar now and then. 8) 8) 8)
Peace, Bluzman
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Dear Brothers & Sisters,
I want to sincerely thank all who have responded to (and contemplated) the posts in this thread. My purpose in bringing this topic up was to help us all understand not only each other but also to underline the purpose of this Forum.
From "The Rules of this Forum"
This forum is primarily a place for people of a like mind to fellowship, and secondarily to discuss and question what they learn on bible-truths.com.
That really sums up what Ray & Dennis had in mind when they decided to provide us an outlet to share with like minded believers, this is truly a gift that should never be trivialized or taken for granted. With that being said I am confident that it was never thought that everyone would come together without the occasional hurt feelings and misunderstandings that appear whenever a diverse group of people attempt to come together and are limited by the written word less the human interaction, even meeting together in person where we can see the body language and all that comes with personal interaction would not guarantee peace and harmony every minute or even every day.
A big part of this earthly journey is to overcome our own personal desires and expectations and to submit to the example our Lord has shown us, what builds our spiritual strength more effectively, never being challenged or meeting challenges with patience, humility and compassion?
Let's not become offended if we feel we are not being properly (in our own minds) acknowledged, be willing to accept that we are all in different places on this journey and there will be times that we feel isolated, did Jesus not suffer acute isolation? Other than His Father (in Spirit) He was often alone in a crowd physically.
To be perfectly honest after being here for over 4 years I never know who might respond to something I might present but I do have a very strong feeling (from experience) who will not respond, it used to bother me until it finally hit home;
This is not about me!
The real spiritual blessings we receive from interacting with our Brothers and Sisters, here or anywhere is when we put them before us and when we feel under appreciated it is better to meditate on why we feel the way we do rather than dwell on why others are not responding to us as we would prefer, everything we experience is forming us into a Son or Daughter of God. This should comfort us in every situation.
Thank you all again.
Peace,
Joe
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I don't post very often, just learning this whole forum thing. I like to read more than to post. You
all are great and I very much appreciate this forum! What a true blessing is is for me!
Some wise posts I must say, great insights. Love to all, Kelli
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Hi Kelli,
On behalf of all of the participants here I want to thank you for your kind words, we are all learning (and hopefully) growing here and again I think I speak for many when I say we still have far more questions than we presently have answers, at least the detailed answers.
The one thing we do know is our Lord and Savior is going to bring us all home to our Father, ultimately the big answer to the biggest question any of us has pondered; why are we here and what is our final destination?
Peace,
Joe
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We all have different talents and skills or Spiritual gifts but we are one body with one Spirit.
I use to be shy about playing a music instrument in the presence of more talented musicians. I would be looking at an instrument at the music store, thinking about buying it, and they would plug it in to the amp; now the whole store can hear it, and everyone in there can play the heck out of a guitar. The guy says try it out, I would say, "you play it", or I would turn the volume down hoping they couldn't hear it as well.
I'm not sure what brought me out of that, but now I will sit in the music store for long periods of time playing. It just doesn't bother me in the least. Sometimes someone will get an instrument and start jammin with me. A lot of times Ive been asked what I'm playing; sounds good, gives me some ideas to a song Ive been working on, or I never thought about using those chords like that. Just different things that would inspire them and vise verse.
Its amazing how millions of arrangements can be made with only seven notes in music.
My point here is that every note is important just as everyone here, and their voice. Some notes and voices are brighter than others or sustained or muted, etc. but we need to know and hear all the notes and voices that make up a song. One note or chord or voice is the beginning of something new.
All of us are like music notes regardless of how small the sound might seem to some of us. Its like Ray says, "you have to pay attention to the words."
Ive been around musicians that were so good, but puffed up about it, they just couldn't find anything interesting or even want to hear anyone else that isn't as good as they are. Well we shouldn't be that way because we are one body. We need to hear from each other.
I want to want to be interested in every word that someone has to say. How can we put a great song together if we don't listen to, or play our note?
I'm not good at quoting Scripture but I can usually put a story together that connects to Scripture. Its just the way I live it.
Sorry if my reply doesn't make any sense to anyone.
No one needs to be shy about sounding off. We miss out on an opportunity, and so do you.
I just posted something that might sound funny to some, and non interesting to some, etc., but it just doesn't matter to me because my note or chord is just as important as anyone else s. Its just the making of a different song that's all; presented in a way that is easy for me.
The forum is the jam room. We are the notes. We need to hear all the notes to make a great great song.
OK, I'm through.
PS. Its a great jam room. I'm thankful and blessed to be here.
Oh! and I am on topic if you listen to the notes and chords.
Peace
Roy
WOW!
I've been noticing that this thread just keeps going on and on and more and more replies everyday, so I decided to go back to the beginning and read every post [including the ones I had already read.. again...] What an amazing thread!! So much spiritual food here; this is the type of thread which brings the body of Christ even closer than before in Unity. Thanks Joe for starting this thread and thanks to everyone who has participated!!
In response to your awesome post Roy, I wanted to quote one of several 'infamous' excerpts from Ray's LOF Series. By the way, I am a fellow guitarist and bass player myself--though I don't play as often as I used to, I get "hot and cold"--but your post made Perfect sense to me! ;)
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm
"TOO MANY NOTES"
In one of my favorite movies, "Amadeus," Emperor Joseph, whom Salieri (the court composer in Vienna) says, "has no ear at all for music," extols Mozart with reserved compliments for his new composition and then offers this criticism to make it better: "Too many notes" he observes. "Take out some of the notes and it will be just fine." "Just which notes did you have in mind," queried Mozart. The puzzled Emperor admitted he didn't know, but that he should just take some of notes out, and it would be fine. Mozart persisted that his composition had neither too few nor too many notes.
Peace, Out
Daywalker. 8)
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You are right Daywalker...some things are just too good to let go of! Leave it to Joe to get us all thinking!! And discussing!
Kathy ;)
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Joe,
Thanks again for starting this enlightening post. It is a post like yours that opens our minds to the total greatness and power of our HEAVENLY FATHER. Please do this again when the opportunity is available, as you do it so very well.
In HIM,
Phil3:10 (Rick)