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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Marky Mark on August 17, 2010, 03:18:10 PM
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Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Mat 11:15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
I would like to thank Ray for his clarification on the following verse. I did not understand why more people were not claiming to be the Christ.
Now, through the Spirit, I do.
"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many" (Matt. 24:4-5)
From Rays paper;
http://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html
"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many" (Matt. 24:4-5)
I don't know how to say it any stronger: It is only the religious leaders of Christendom that can possibly fulfill Christ's prophecy:
"And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world [Gk: 'age']?
"And MANY false prophets shall rise, and shall DECEIVE MANY. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible [Thank God that it is not possible...] they shall deceive the very elect" (Matt. 24:3, 11, & 24)
"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many" (Matt. 24:4-5)
I marvel that theologians teach that many people will come saying that "they are the Christ," No, Jesus did not say that many would come claiming that they, themselves, are Christ, but rather that He (Christ) is the Christ. Now then, who but Christians teach that Jesus Christ IS THE CHRIST of God? No one, but Christians only. So those who "deceive many" are Christians!
About every ten or twenty years a person will come along and claim that he, himself, is Jesus Christ, the Son of God. And so, it is not the "many" who do this, but rather only an occasional one every so many decades. And, no one of normal intelligence (certainly not "the many") would ever really believe that these weirdos really are Jesus Christ. So these rare few are not themselves the "many" nor do they deceive the "many."
It's not the Muslims who teach that Jesus is the Christ. It's not the Hindus who teach that Jesus is the Christ. It is not the heathens or the pagans that teach that Jesus is the Christ. And certainly the athiests do not teach the Jesus is the Christ. You know who they are--they are the pastors, ministers, teachers, prophets, priests, shepherds, and theologians of Christendom. They are "many," and Jesus said they would be deceiving "many." There is no other category of people on earth whose number is "many," who claim to represent Christ, and teach that Christ is the Christ, yet are deceiving "many."
If you really think that the leaders of the Christian Church are not these "many false prophets," who are "deceiving many," then you have to account for them with some other large group that does this, or you make Christ and the Scriptures out to be lying.
Peace...Mark
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I agree Mark. This is a lesson I gladly understood as I had questioned that "many" would claim to be Christ. His explanation made perfect sense!
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One shocking truth for sure.
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Yep, important lesson here... It also doesn't help that many translations add quotes around "I am the Christ". I wonder if the translators themselves were confused or if they deceitfully added the quotes? Perhaps it was a mixture of both...
Daywalker 8)
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The word Christ, means anointed.
I have heard many preachers over the years, that believe that Jesus is THE CHRIST, say that they themselves are anointed also.
Joel
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is not jesus the christ? i was gonna try to find it in rays paper but i have no idea where to look for this study. i was just under the impression that he was the christ. i got this from one of the papers though, am i not reading in correctly.?
"...we have heard Him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD" (John 4:42). I teach this, but does the Church teach that the One to Whom they give lip service "is indeed the Christ, THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD?" NO, it does NOT!
let me know
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Good post Marky Mark.
Ray is bag nut on!
Interesting thought too daywalker.
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i have seen the light :o , you did answer my question and doubt correctly.
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............ hopefully a better teacher than I will come along quickly and help out. Probably Arc. :D
oops....I hope I am not a teacher janine! Truly! :-[
A teacher is held to a higher standard in Judgement!!! :o I would prefer the privilege to be known as a friend, sister, ...I am also a Mom and Daughter. 8)
You did well to explain to our brother santikos.
Warm Blessings to you :)
Deborah
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I'm sorry janine, hate to be contradictory but I think you missed part of the point here.
You said, "Jesus here warns that many people shall come (in the last days) and claim that they are Christ and they shall deceive many people."
But Ray said the following..."No, Jesus did not say that many would come claiming that they, themselves, are Christ, but rather that He (Christ) is the Christ."
The idea is that the church teaches that many will come deceiving and calling themselves Christ which we know has not happened. Very few do this and are immediately coined as crazy so do not deceive many.
But in fact Ray says the Bible is teaching that many will come claiming JESUS is the Christ and WILL deceive many."
Jesus was warning that many CHRISTIANS will come (preachers, missionaries, teachers) and be very deceiving. This we have seen!
Hope this makes sense.
Lin
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Blessings back to you janine! ;D
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One more, Janine. They are the MANY who are doing the decieving. ;)
One handy piece of understanding to hang onto: When the NT mentions the 'many', it is referring to christendom, the Church (as opposed to HIS church), babylon the great.
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Mark that was awesome!!!!! ;D
Antaiwan
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Wow!
I shared this with Facebook Mark. I hope you don't mind.
Peace
Roy
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Mark,
Thank you! This makes perfect sense.
I am so unbelievably grateful that God has drawn me out of Babylon. As I am in the process of moving and sorting through stuff at the same time, I threw all my books by so called "Christian" authors into the the garbage pile; I won't miss any of 'em.
Angie
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Thank-you Father for showing Ray Spiritual Truths and the blessings that You bestow upon all who see and hear them,In Jesus Christs name. AMEN...
Peace...Mark
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Amen!! from me too.
Roy
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Dear friend Janine,
Every parent is a teacher. Yet no one is born with the developed skill.
You and I, if God wills, shall become qualified teachers in the Kingdom.
It is a good thing to aspire to become a teacher, an elder.
The forum is a great place to learn about teaching and about the learning process,
a process requiring time and effort.
Teaching is a process requiring drill and exercise of our gifts and talents that come from God. Part of learning is making honest mistakes and having our family of true friends handy to point them out. We could call it stepping out in faith.
I commend you for your desire to teach and your willingness to patiently endure
correction as part of the process.
The forum has rules that we all accepted, so one must be careful not to teach our own ideas, but explaining patiently what we all are learning is commendable.
Subject to comments by our moderators, Bob
Finally I got it. I read and re read "all the words" and it didn't click.
I will reinterate for poor Santiko's sake. There will be many teachers, preachers, prophets etc (out of the churches, still in Babylon) who will come claiming Jesus is the Christ. These are the ones who will be deceiving many.
I don't think I will attempt to "teach" ever again. :-[ :-[
Thanks again Dave and Linny
Yes it is the many that are still in Babylon, the few who are drawn out.
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Hi janine
I appreciate the spirit of gratitude expressed in your first off reference to me as a teacher. :) Perhaps my response was too harsh :(
Maybe it will help to see what inspires me that is beautifully sheltered within the following: :)
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Blessings
Arc
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We are all teachers.
cp
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oh my goodness i have read over that verse idk how many times and just now got it! I guess I didn't read that particular paper from Ray (or read over/past it most likely) awesome
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I hear ya mark. It totally amazes me how some things can be seen in a whole different light at different times in a person's journey. I so look forward to what's next on the agenda.
Seeing these words of God in this new light has very interesting possibilities.
cp
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Thank you Mark for this post i just love it when God opens our eyes alittle more as we move along on our journey.
Terry
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Is there a difference between preaching and teaching? I mean the apostles were preaching right? Isn't that foolishness? Or were they teaching???? Or were they just relating what they had experienced? They were trying to convert weren't they or just going around telling people the 'good news" ??
Judy
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Is there a difference between preaching and teaching? I mean the apostles were preaching right? Isn't that foolishness? Or were they teaching???? Or were they just relating what they had experienced? They were trying to convert weren't they or just going around telling people the 'good news" ??
Judy
Good question! I looked both up on eSword...
G2784
κηρύσσω
kērussō
kay-roos'-so
Of uncertain affinity; to herald (as a public crier), especially divine truth (the gospel): - preach (-er), proclaim, publish.
G1321
διδάσκω
didaskō
did-as'-ko
A prolonged (causative) form of a primary verb δάω daō (to learn); to teach (in the same broad application): - teach.
It seems to me that "preaching" has to do with proclaiming a message [i.e. the message of the Good News Gospel and the coming Kingdom of God/Heaven]; whereas "teaching" is showing someone how to do something--like how to live a godly life, how to worship God, etc.
As far as who can or cannot be our teachers, I look no further than the following Scriptures:
“These things I write to you concerning those who are deceiving you. And the anointing which you obtained from Him is remaining in you, and you have no need that anyone may be teaching you, but as His anointing is teaching you concerning all, and is true, and is no lie, according as it teaches you also, remain in Him.”
- I John 2:26-27, Concordant Literal New Testament
“Though My Lord, should give you bread in short measure and water in scant allowance Yet will thy Teacher not hide himself any more, But thine eyes shall ever be looking on thy Teacher. So shall, thine own ears, hear a word from behind thee saying,—This, is the way, walk ye therein, When ye would turn to the right hand Or when ye would turn to the left.”
- Isaiah 30:20-21, Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible
I don't believe this means that we cannot have earthly teachers, but that their teaching best be in accord with Our Lord & Teacher, Jesus Christ. Hence the reason we are told to "search the Scriptures" and "study" and "prove all things", etc.
That's my take; feel free to chime in anyone...
Daywalker 8)
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We are all teachers.
cp
Careful what you wish for... :D :o
James 3:1
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I'm sorry janine, hate to be contradictory but I think you missed part of the point here.
You said, "Jesus here warns that many people shall come (in the last days) and claim that they are Christ and they shall deceive many people."
But Ray said the following..."No, Jesus did not say that many would come claiming that they, themselves, are Christ, but rather that He (Christ) is the Christ."
The idea is that the church teaches that many will come deceiving and calling themselves Christ which we know has not happened. Very few do this and are immediately coined as crazy so do not deceive many.
But in fact Ray says the Bible is teaching that many will come claiming JESUS is the Christ and WILL deceive many."
Linny my Buddy,
An excellent explanation in your above Post, I couldn't have explained it better. Until reading Your Post, I was getting a little confused. This translation thing and paying attention to the Words is most important as it was once again proven in Your Post. It can get mind boggling at times, this translation thing, ;D.
Kind Regards, Samson.
Jesus was warning that many CHRISTIANS will come (preachers, missionaries, teachers) and be very deceiving. This we have seen!
Hope this makes sense.
Lin
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We are all teachers.
cp
Careful what you wish for... :D :o
James 3:1
There are teachers and there are teachers.
Titus2.2
Hebrews 5.12
Colo 3.16
cp
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Thank you Claypot. That makes me feel better :) But of course it helps to know of what you speak :-[
Jam 3:1 Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
Jam 3:2 We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check.
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Thank you Claypot. That makes me feel better :) But of course it helps to know of what you speak :-[
Just responding to the many good posts in this thread.
I thought what I said and the words of our God that I referenced made it clear as to what I am speaking of.
Good stuff overall.
I see balance in all of God's words to us.
cp
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We are all teachers.
cp
Careful what you wish for... :D :o
James 3:1
There are teachers and there are teachers.
Titus2.2
Hebrews 5.12
Colo 3.16
cp
True, true.
I was just being humorous with my reply; not accusing you of anything. ;)
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No offense taken. Good stuff shared by all here. I am gleaning.
cp