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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Sue Creamer on August 13, 2007, 03:40:22 PM

Title: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: Sue Creamer on August 13, 2007, 03:40:22 PM: Hi All,

I have been unable to find anything in Ray's emails or articles about clean and unclean meats. Having
come out of a church that taught it was a sin to eat pork, sea food, etc...I would so like to have some
input into what is correct according to the scriptures.

Thanks!
Sue Ann
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: Kat on August 13, 2007, 04:37:22 PM: Hi Sue Ann,

I was in WW 15 years, I know well their teaching to not eat unclean meats. This is man's effort to please God with the physical. This scripture shows it matters not what we eat.

Mat 15:11 it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person."

Mar 7:18 And he said to them, "Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him,
Mar 7:19 since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?" (Thus he declared all foods clean.) (RSV)

Here is an email, it does not mention unclean meats, but I would think unclean meats is just another physical thing man tries to do to serve God.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1520.0.html ------

Dear Mildred:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a HOLY DAY, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH days; which are a shadow of things to come, but the body [Gk: 'substance'--the REAL THING] is the Christ [or 'is the Christ's']" (Col. 2:16-17). See also Heb. 8:5-6 & Heb. 10:1.

We are not obligated under the New Covenant to "keep" any holy days.

God be with you,

Ray
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: Sue Creamer on August 13, 2007, 04:57:11 PM: Hi Kat,

I believed this was the case, but questions keep lingering in my mind!!!! As I cannot reference a bible here at work and can't remember it on my own..I have to put things into my own words. Does not modern medicine today teach pork is unfit for human consumption? Where did that come from? I don't think any of us would eat a mouse or rat, but is there any reference in the scriptures that says it is not a good idea if we were so inclined, even though it is not a sin?? I guess what I am trying to say is what separates the "what is good for us food" and "that which is not good for us food"...!!!! I am so sorry if I am not making sense.

Thanks!
Sue Ann
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: jackson on August 13, 2007, 05:49:30 PM: Hey Sue Ann,

My take on the "unclean meat" is that it is not really refering to any type of edible or consumable animal. This, in my estimation, is talking about false profits spreading lies and half-truths. Often their words sound very good, they'll even very often sprinkle in some Scripture to give their lies an authentic "taste". But the meat that they are selling is spoiled.

The verses Kat quoated speak the undeniable truth. If it is from God it is good. Nothing else really to say.

Oh and have you ever tried rat...I here it's quite good marinated in a little teriaki sauce ;D. Sorry about that , I couldn't resist ::)

Jackson
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: okjohnson on August 13, 2007, 06:27:36 PM: Hi Sue Anne

I think the stumbling here is over old doctrines. I have trouble with the old doctrines quite often that need to be burned up too.

The New Covenant (Christ) replaces the Old Covenant (Law of Moses which was a shadow of Christ).

Here are a couple of verses that might help:

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [casting the shadow] is of Christ (Col. 2:16-17)

Actually, Jesus changed (rewrote) the ten commandments.
The following verses is one example of this .

Matt. 5:21: You have heard that it was said by them of old time, thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

Verse. 22: "But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother Racca (vain fellow) shall be in danger of hell fire."

You might want to read Matthew 5:19-48 to see all of the changes that Jesus made to the commandments.

It is Christ in you that matters.
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: sasscell on August 13, 2007, 06:56:39 PM: Does God gave us instruction on how to eat (from a health benefits point of view) in His Word??
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: Kat on August 13, 2007, 07:01:15 PM: Hi Sue Ann,

I'm not aware of anything that says pork is unfit for human consumption. But I do believe that we have to use good judgment and try to have a healthy diet.
What is important is the spiritual, not the physical.
Numerous physical rituals were performed in the early years of the Apostles' ministries until they came to a realization that it is the spirit that matters, not the physical (http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,251.0.html).
But Paul did teach the belivers what they should concern themselves with.

Act 15:19 Wherefore my judgment is, that we trouble not them that from among the Gentiles turn to God;
v. 20 but that we write unto them, that they abstain from the pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from what is strangled, and from blood.

If you don't think it's a good thing to eat certain meats, that is fine for you to abstain from them. But it is not a necessary thing that we are held to, from the old covenant. We are under the new covenant and the law is spiritual.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: Beloved on August 13, 2007, 09:11:21 PM: Pork meat has been implicated with trichinosis (worms that get into muscles and tissue and cause a great deal of pain and even death if heart tissue is involved) in the past but today most pork is not infested with this. Most the food laws were beneficial in the days of unrefrigeration and no antibiotics.

Remember everthing written is also spiritual. The physical things that were not allowed then...ate off the dead. they were scavengers. They were loaded with bacteria.

When God was talking about not eating unclean meat he is referring to the heretical doctrine that come from spiritually dead churches.

When Peter was told to eat everything, the square cloth represented the four corners of the earth. I believe that God protected the believers in the early church and his chosen through the ages. Foods like the law were fulfilled in Christ.

Eating a little meat (size of a deck of cards) is all that is necessary in order to obtain the needed protein and iron. We should probably be better stewards and not encourage the excess killing of animals that the present world is engaged in. We do not need to be vegetarians, remember Jesus ate lamb and fish when in His earthly form.

Beloved (http://bestsmileys.com/animals/8.gif)
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: pilgrim on August 13, 2007, 09:20:51 PM: Quote from: Sue Ann on August 13, 2007, 03:40:22 PM
Hi All,
I have been unable to find anything in Ray's emails or articles about clean and unclean meats.

Quote
I may get some uncomfortable feedback on my replies to your questions and others replies but I would like to answer using common sense and logic. I came to the conclusion that the best way of surviving is to read the scriptures as they are written...One can do very well by accepting what God has spoken concerning clean and unclean. I was never an SDA but I fellowshipped with them for 14 years...I was a member of the WWCofGod for a few years (until I was excommunicated because I couldn't accept the tithing and festival doctrines)...In both cases I agreed with both churches on clean and unclean foods (and still do) for the following reasons.

Most of the unclean animals are scavengers (they eat rotten material, diseased animals, are known to carry diseases and can be toxic sometimes, etc.
A young female member and good friend of mine in another church that taught "anything goes" died when eating a food that sometimes is toxic.
A fellow employee and long time friend nearly died when he ate scallops.
I can't think of any case concerning Biblical unclean food, that there isn't a rational, reasonable, common sense argument against eating it.
There are so many "clean" foods that one can eat, why bother with the "unclean" foods unless one is stubborn, rebellious, and blind as my friends were!

Having come out of a church that taught it was a sin to eat pork, sea food, etc...

Quote
It is not a SIN to eat unclean as you know...It might only kill you!!
Ray teaches about choice and free will... If in doubt ...DON'T

I would so like to have some input into what is correct according to the scriptures.

Quote
What is correct according to the scriptures is what is written...believe it!

Thanks!
Sue Ann

Understand...I believe everything that I have read (so far)here, that God has inspired Ray to teach. He is the best thing that has happened in my life so far.

Bon Apetite
Pilgrim
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: rk12201960 on August 13, 2007, 09:35:32 PM: Hi Guys,
There are so many and I mean MANY hormones, genetic altering, potions and other things in store bought food that makes unclean food look like a mild case of 'I dunno"

Believe me when I say the beef you ate last night could make you glow when the lights are off.

So my questions is which food is more a danger to humans today.
Life is not the same as it was in the OT days so we could be so far off the mark than you think.

Randy
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: rjsurfs on August 13, 2007, 09:48:36 PM: Pilgram states:
Quote
6. There are so many "clean" foods that one can eat, why bother with the "unclean" food unless you are stubborn, rebellious, and blind as my friends were!

I eat what my wife puts on the table... before that, what my mother did. When I'm out I eat what is available. I guess that makes me stubborn, rebellious, or blind...

1 Corinthians 10:23-31 (King James Version)

23All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

24Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.

25Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

26For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.

27If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.

28But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

29Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?

30For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?

31Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: pilgrim on August 14, 2007, 02:08:10 AM: Hello Tennessee Bob...

Quote from: Bobby Proctor on August 13, 2007, 09:48:36 PM

I eat what my wife puts on the table... before that, what my mother did. When I'm out I eat what is available. I guess that makes me stubborn, rebellious, or blind...

Well no...that was not my meaning...the key phrase in my words quoted above by you was "as my friends were!"
Both of my friends happened to be stubborn, rebellious, and blind (spiritually) by their own admission and factual observation. They were "know it all types" who knew better after being warned by the medical profession and others, not me.

I also eat what my wife puts on the table...before that, what my mother did. When I'm out I eat what is available.

However if your wife or mine put 3 day old road kill. or raw beef that was from a mad cow, (and we were advised what it was) I would hope that both of us would use common sense and not apply Paul's writings to make it safe to eat. However if you did eat it, I might consider you lacking in common sense, foolish, and not very bright.

The problem is that all of mankind are not civilized. Maybe God knows more than we do. ;D We are very sanitized and are not subjected to food that might harm us seriously.

Hope I made myself clearer...

Thank God that God is the God that God is!

Pilgrim
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: Sue Creamer on August 14, 2007, 08:20:56 AM: All,

I really appreciate all your comments and I will keep in mind that although all meat is not forbidden by the scriptures, it makes sense to make choices about the meat we eat based on what is healthy and it sure sounds like a great percent of meat today is polluted, and altered to the point of being toxic. Seems like MOST of our food is in that same sad condition. However, knowing that all is God's will and we live day by day living the best we can, guess it does seem a tiny thing to put so much thought into what we are eating or not eating...when in the end "all is God's will".

Peace
Sue Ann
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: Beloved on August 14, 2007, 11:40:32 AM: I too used to worry about how toxic the environment is coming because of man's indiscretions, I did a lot of research on the environmental and occupational effects on health. It can be overwhelming and depressing but

As believers we need to Trust God in everything. I am no longer concerned to the degree that I was because

Tit 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled

(Phi 4:6 CLV) Do not worry about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God,

Luk 18:8 ...... Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Even though this verse can be translated NO remember that we are called to be overcomers and faithful followers of the Lamb

Rev 17:14 ......the Lamb : for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

1Co 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful

1Co 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God

Bon Apetite

Beloved (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/ernaehrung/food-smiley-016.gif)
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: Rene on August 14, 2007, 02:06:21 PM: Quote from: pilgrim on August 14, 2007, 02:08:10 AM

The problem is that all of mankind are not civilized intelligent white anglo-saxon. Maybe God knows more than we do. ;D We are very sanitized and are not subjected to food that might harm us seriously.

Hi Pilgrim,

I'm sure you are just kidding. For a moment there I thought you were serious.

I am not a white anglo-saxon, but I have enough intelligence (by the grace of God) to know how to feed my body in a healthy manner.

Rene'
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: johnxx on August 14, 2007, 09:00:51 PM: hello friend,
I think that I can help you out with your clean & unclean meat. Look at 1 Tim 4:3
" forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain form meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (4) for every creature of God is gook and nothing to be refused if it be received with Thanksgiving (5) for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer" Their you have it two witness like Bro Ray teaches I hope this helps you out.
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: LittleBear on August 14, 2007, 09:29:43 PM: Hi John,

I love the freedom we have in Christ and no longer have to be bound by the letter of the law. I think if I was in the desert, starving and I happened to spy upon a lizard, I think I would be really thankful! Oh....I would have to kill it first. Oh boy...that would be a problem. :-\

Welcome to the forum John!

Ursula
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: Sue Creamer on August 15, 2007, 08:37:08 AM: Hello,

John, thanks (I will study up on I Tim 4:3) that is a great scripture! Welcome to the forum.

Ursula, my husband and I got into a conversation last night about "what if we were starving" and if we would eat things we don't normally eat such as snakes, rats...I believe you are right, we would be sooooo thankful for anything, I don't think we would care what it was. Although, I have a hard time being in the same room with a snake!!! That is another trial within itself. After that conversation we went to sleep and I dreamed all night of snakes everywhere!!! Nighmares!!! Ugh..not a good way to start the day..

Thanks so much
Sue Ann
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: SteveW on August 15, 2007, 03:43:49 PM: Quote from: pilgrim on August 14, 2007, 02:08:10 AM
The problem is that all of mankind are not civilized. Maybe God knows more than we do. ;D We are very sanitized and are not subjected to food that might harm us seriously.

Civilized = healthy? In Monday's news we learned that the US tumbled down the world rating list for life expectancy, dropping from 11th to 42nd place. Even though the US spends the most on health care. Obesity and lifestyle were cited as factors.

Could it be that rats and snakes would be healthier than Micky D's? :)

Steve
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: okjohnson on August 16, 2007, 05:45:41 PM: Hi Steve

I would guess that census Math does not take into consideration the loss of life we have in wars, 911, and on the highway as compared to other countries when coming up the life expectancy numbers. They just figure the average life expectancy based on the age of death.
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: LittleBear on August 16, 2007, 10:18:48 PM: Hi Sue Ann,

Oh Boy, what did I start? Ok, I'll give you another suggestion to give you better dreams.

How about Death by Chocolate, my very favorite ice cream. It would definitely be considered a clean food! I'm pretty sure it's found somewhere in Isaiah. OK, hang on, I'm looking. Um, no I can't seem to find it there. Sorry, I must have read it somewhere else. :D

Anyway, sweet dreams!

Ursula
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: Sue Creamer on August 17, 2007, 08:12:27 AM: Ursula,

I am so sad Death by Chocolate is not there...are you sure you looked hard enough???? :o (Ha ha ha)
Have you ever heard of Death by Chocolate CAKE ??? Hum-mm, hum mm it is just as bad (good ). In a way I would have to agree with Steve, maybe that rat roasted just right along side a big ole potato would be so much more healthy...(kidding of course). Oh no, here comes the nightmares..... ;D

Thanks for your response..I loved it.
Sue Ann
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: LittleBear on August 17, 2007, 01:12:11 PM: Death by Chocolate CAKE?!!! :o

Help me someone! I'm nowhere near any chocolate and I'm starting to get lightheaded!
Ok, Ok, deep breaths....I'm alright now. I think I'm gonna make it.

Ursula :)
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: ruckfogers on August 17, 2007, 03:35:37 PM: BEFORE the Law there were clean and unclean animals...

When everything was ready, the Lord said to Noah, “Go into the boat with all your family, for among all the people of the earth, I can see that you alone are righteous. Take with you seven pairs—male and female—of each animal I have approved for eating and for sacrifice, and take one pair of each of the others. [GEN 7:1-2 NLT]

If God thought that some animals were unfit for eating before the Law how are we free to safely eat anything we want? Isn't poison always poison?
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: Kat on August 17, 2007, 05:39:42 PM: Hi ruckfoger,

Quote
If God thought that some animals were unfit for eating before the Law how are we free to safely eat anything we want?

I look at the scripture that we have in the NT, that plainly state that all are clean.

Mar 7:18 He said to them, "Are you so ignorant? Don't you know that nothing that goes into a person from the outside can make him unclean?
Mar 7:19 For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and is expelled as waste." (Thus he declared all foods clean.)

This is a statement from Jesus, where He says nothing you eat and I would think that would include unclean meat, make you unclean. The statement in parentheses is from Mark making it certain what is being said.

Luke 10:8 And into whatever city you enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you.

This is Jesus speaking, there is no mention of not eating a unclean meat. But He is saying to eat whatever is put before you.

1Cor 10:27 If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience.

This is from Paul, he is teaching them a higher spiritual law of being conscience of anothers feeling and says to not object to eating whatever is set before you. The spiritual comes before the physical.

I do realize that we have to use good judgment in what we eat, but we are not held to the laws of eating only clean animals, the scripture prove this.
We are held by a higher spiritual law and that is what we should be concerned with.
In reality when we stand before Christ to give account, I don't think He will be concerned with what our dietary habits were.
This is how I see this, but anyone that is trying to eat health and restricting certain things in their diet, this is a good thing for them to do. Our bodies are the temple of God and we should strive to be healthy and keep all things in moderation. We should not let this become an idol of your heart, there are more important things to be concerned with :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: SteveW on August 17, 2007, 06:43:38 PM: Kat,

Good verses there. I would also like to point to the whole chapter 8 of 1 Co. Here too Paul makes it clear that it is more important to be mindful of others than it is to express your freedom to eat any food.

1Co 8:9 Don't cause problems for someone with a weak conscience, just because you have the right to eat anything.

I try apply the spiritual meaning of this chapter to many parts of my life, including keeping my mouth shut (most times) with Christain friends and family when they speak of things of God of which they have not a clue. It takes discernment I do not always have to know if God is leading one, that I can share some of the new truths we have learned. I see the whole of chapter 8 as a warning to be loving to unbelievers and Christians who are still toddlers.

Though it is clear we could eat any food without sin, but...

1Co 8:8 But food doesn't bring us any closer to God. We are no worse off if we don't eat, and we are no better off if we do.

I believe this 100%, but the keyword to me is FOOD. It appears to me that not everything labeled food in today's world really is. For instance, Coffeymate adds zinc oxide for color, and that is a chemical more commonly used in white paint pigment. Additives may be edible, yes, but that does not make them FOOD. Of course I am perhaps more sensitive to this because of a heath issue of mine.

Like Ray and many others here, I try to drink pure water and eat healthy foods. I am far from perfect and do indulge a little on occasion. Sue Ann, I don;t know what "Death by Chocolate CAKE" is but my wife brought home some ice cream called "moose tracks" for the kids. Under my wife's watchful eye, I took a chocolate chip the size of a business card out of my bowl and put it back in the carton. :)

Steve
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: ruckfogers on August 23, 2007, 12:58:41 PM: I think that there is a difference between health laws and spiritual laws.

The fact that God told Noah that some things were clean and unclean was both a health law (things we shouldn't eat) and a spiritual law (there are things God approves of to be sacrificed).

When we are told that it doesn't matter what we eat it is speaking spiritually. We cannot make ourselves clean or unclean with what we eat or do, only Jesus' blood can cleanse us.

Think about it logically, if poison was put before you are all things pure?

Pork and lobster and crow are still bad for us (health-wise).

This "(Thus he declared all foods clean.)" is not in the KJV.

And Jesus was a Jew. When he traveled, he spoke to Jews. Paul took it to the gentiles. So everyone that Jesus talked to would already understand the laws of cleanliness so they would NEVER serve pork or anything of the like.

And think about it... if pork was healthy and good for us, would Jesus have casted daemons into them?
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: insanezenmistress on August 23, 2007, 01:19:56 PM: And now, let me come at you from left feild entirely...........could "meats" have a symbolic meaning?....i am sure it does, and Ray has pointed it out several times. Physical mirrors the spiritaul............ in my study i have taken many places where meats are mentioned and think of them in terms of doctrines, and philosophies, truths and spiritaul undersandings.

now in that analogy,

Before there where clean and unclean meats......(the law and the torah where the clean truths and the truths of baal where the unclean truths).............(argh i can see how i am complicating left feild but try and bear with....).................

and after the reconciliation of christ......all truths are sanctified by christ.

Paul said we can eat meats offered to idols.......because we know there are no idols. that means for instance, say the teaching "do unto others as you would have them to unto you."

It is a meat. and it is taught in many religions and philosphies. it is truth no matter who says it. Truth(and the understanding of what is truth) comes from christ.............and the lie and the deception of truth comes form Evil... and evil seasons truths with lies.

BUT i am not saying that the way to christ is thru "meats offered to idols" and i am not saying we should stick around the idol's temples and suck up all their meats............like the jews did time and time again in their day.

I am saying that Christ can present truth any way he wants..meaning he has sanctified all meats.......to be received with joy.

For example say your struggleing with something and someone comes along and gives you a wisdom, say that wisdom comes form the Koran, but it hits you in the right spot. Should you deny that truth because it was a meat offered to an idol????

ok the sun is in my eyes, NEXT pitcher......

Justine.
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: Kat on August 23, 2007, 05:05:30 PM: Hi ruckfogers,

Mark 7:19 because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)

This scripture was a statement by Jesus, the last phrase in parentheses was added by Mark. I found nowhere that stated this to be spurious.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: DizzyD on August 25, 2007, 09:42:07 AM: Greetings all...
I may be going astray with a thought about ruckfogers reference about when Jesus cast the demons out of the afflicted man and into the swine. I noticed something a while back, I don't recall if I heard it or if the thought just came to me. That is that the swine immediately ran down the hill into a lake and drowned themselves, the swine would not tolerate something in them that a human would. They would rather die. Just an observation :)
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: Harryfeat on August 25, 2007, 06:47:53 PM: Hey Sue Ann,

Here are some things that Paul said about food that I try to keep in mind:

Rom 14:9 For this reason Christ died and returned to life, so that he might become the Lord of both the dead and the living.
Rom 14:10 Why, then, do you criticize your brother? Or why do you despise your brother? For all of us will stand before the judgment seat of God.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, "As certainly as I live, declares the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will praise God."
Rom 14:12 Consequently, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Therefore, let us no longer criticize each other. Instead, make up your mind not to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.
Rom 14:14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in and of itself. But it is unclean to a person who thinks it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 For if your brother is being hurt by what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not destroy the person for whom Christ died by what you eat.
Rom 14:16 Do not allow your good to be spoken of as evil.
Rom 14:17 For God's kingdom does not consist of food and drink, but of righteousness, peace, and joy produced by the Holy Spirit.
Rom 14:18 For the person who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by people.
Rom 14:19 Therefore, let us keep on pursuing those things that bring peace and that lead to building one another up.

Also, beware of eating only herbs and vegetables----
Rom 14:2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.

It took me a while to discern the messages from all passages above, but I was totally uplifted when I got it.

Bring on that meat lovers pizza. ;D ;D

be blessed
feat
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: gmik on August 26, 2007, 07:30:25 PM: Wow. How did I miss a thread on FOOD???? :D Girls Rick has a thread w/ a recipe for Death by Chocolate. Or did I just wish that to be so?

This has been an interesting thread, serious and humorous. I do agree w/ feat on this one.

Americans are fat bcz: Ta daaaaaa....<drum roll please>

FAST FOOD NO EXERCISE FAST FOOD NO EXERCISE FAST FOOD NO EXERCISE

Thank you, thank you.....
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: Sue Creamer on August 27, 2007, 08:15:48 AM: Thank you all...!!! I have learned much from your post...

Feat, thank you I have to admit that last verse (ROM 14:2) is a new one for me...I have probably read it many times but didn't really understand it that way until you pointed it out.

Gena, you are funny....! :) :) :) I know you are right about the fast food and exercise..a weakness of mine.

peace,
Sue Ann
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: ez2u on August 28, 2007, 03:38:04 AM: I have been studding nutrition and health for 30 years. God has brought me knowledge on how to heal myself through food and herbs

Gen 1:29 And God430 said,559 Behold,2009 I have given5414 you (853) every3605 herb6212 bearing2232 seed,2233 which834 is upon5921 the face6440 of all3605 the earth,776 and every3605 tree,6086 in the which834 is the fruit6529 of a tree6086 yielding2232 seed;2233 to you it shall be1961 for meat.402

ESE 47:12 And by5921 the river5158 upon5921 the bank8193 thereof, on this side4480, 2088 and on that side,4480, 2088 shall grow5927 all3605 trees6086 for meat,3978 whose leaf5929 shall not3808 fade,5034 neither3808 shall the fruit6529 thereof be consumed:8552 it shall bring forth new fruit1069 according to his months,2320 because3588 their waters4325 they1992 issued out3318 of4480 the sanctuary:4720 and the fruit6529 thereof shall be1961 for meat,3978 and the leaf5929 thereof for medicine.8644

I have been gravely ill at times and with this knowledge healing came. I had fibromyalgia, depression. chronic fatigue. cancer of the breast. hypoglycemia, ect....

How we eat does speak of our appetite. When I had cancer the Lord spoke to me that it was my appetite that would struggle with. There is too much evidence out now to dispute that a healthy diet of as much organic raw fruits and vegetables you can eat is the the healthiest way to eat. Cooked oils is hard on the body overloads the liver to where it begins to break down and causes heart attacks. Linus Pauling won 2 Nobel peace prizes for his work in vitamin C but what most people don't know is niacin and vitamin C taken in the early stages of schizophrenia high levels after about 2 years about 90% of the patients Will be fully functionable citizens with no medicine nor niacin and vitamin C. Read for your self. What is holding us up in this country is sickness is BIG BUSINESS SO THERE IS A LOT OF IMFORMATION OUT THERE to support eating poorly. If you don't believe me, that I tell you right, talk to me I will explain to you what happen to me to get healthier and recommend some good books to read. People don't be fooled eating closer to the way God made food and rawer is healthier for your body. I know this I have experience it first hand. Peggy
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: ruckfogers on August 28, 2007, 01:56:11 PM: Quote from: Kat on August 23, 2007, 05:05:30 PM
Mark 7:19 because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)

The "(Thus He declared all foods clean)" part is not in the King James.

Take a look at this (5 minute read)...

No preaching (including preaching via links).
Links are not allowed if a site or article brings its own teaching or preaching. Links are allowed if a site it just for fun or informational, ie, you tube, google translator, Esword, etc.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3.0.html

The posting of teaching links is not allowed, we do not want to give any indication that the things contained on some of these sites have the endorsement of Bible Truths, I hope you understand.

His Peace to you,

Joe
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: hillsbororiver on August 28, 2007, 02:16:41 PM: Quote from: ruckfogers on August 28, 2007, 01:56:11 PM
Quote from: Kat on August 23, 2007, 05:05:30 PM
Mark 7:19 because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)

The "(Thus He declared all foods clean)" part is not in the King James.

Take a look at this (5 minute read)...

Actually this thread has already presented about every view possible so let's take Paul's advice and not let what we eat or don't eat become stumbling blocks.

I have had members of my family that did everything possible to gain and or preserve good health and died in their early to late 50's, on the other hand my Grandfather smoked like a chimney, drank morning til night ate fried foods constantly and lived to be 86, my Grandmother (other side of the family) was overweight, ate a lot of pork and other meats as well as more than her fair share of breads, pastries, cakes, etc. she lived to be 97.

Temperence in all things is a requirement and one of the fruits of anyone who has the Spirit of Christ within, we should seek the things above if we do the earthly things will take care of themselves (through Him of course).

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: rk12201960 on August 28, 2007, 02:22:25 PM: Well said Joe.
I good bit of wisdom to chew on.

Randy
8)
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: ez2u on September 02, 2007, 12:37:37 PM: Here is something I did not find in reading these post
All things are lawful to me, but not all things profit. All things are lawful to me, but I will not be ruled by any.
1Co 6:13 Foods for the belly, and the belly for foods, but God will destroy both this and these.
Reading the verses before and after gives a person more light as to what is being said.I have experience better health by eating closer to natural and organic. I don't believe we are under law that we must requirer someone to eat a certain way and surely when I ate all raw it took a little planning. I slept much better and never had any illness. People don't realize how important sleeping is. A good sound sleep helps your body to clean house and restore your health. Not putting so much work on the liver my eating raw food with life in it gives your body a chance to rest and repair, rebuild. I hear this calling to eat healthier my appetities of my flesh what I have known and done in the past has stop me. It is not a requirement for any one but I found it produces better health after a while. That is after your body heals.
Greed on the other hand is a very deturbing element to me why I don't know it been around forever and in the damn nature. It is not a respecter of persons. I to repent on things.
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: YellowRose on September 11, 2007, 01:39:20 AM: This is a topic that hits close to home for me right now. I have read all of the posts and I have learned some important spiritual insights. I am always grateful for that. The Lord has been dealing with me on this very issue lately. My understanding was stuck between the world’s carnal views concerning food and the spiritual teachings concerning food. I was finally able to sort through it all with the help of this important scripture: I call upon you, therefore, brethren, through the compassions of God, to present your bodies a sacrifice -- living, sanctified, acceptable to God -- your intelligent service; and be not conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, for your proving what [is] the will of God -- the good, and acceptable, and perfect. Romans 12:1-2. I finally understood that the main issue is not which foods are right or how much food is right. These are carnal ideas/arguments. Every time I turn around, I’m being bombarded by diets and studies and discussions about food, food, food. It’s all about tending to the flesh, focusing on the flesh, caring for the flesh. It is true that we are to care for our bodies and responsibly manage them, but the goal is not so that the flesh will profit. The flesh profits nothing. The goal is not so that we meet the letter of some old testament law. Through Christ we have been set free from the law of sin and death. The goal is to present our bodies as a living, sanctified and acceptable sacrifice to God. It is for His sake that we consider these issues, not for the sake of our or others’ flesh. If there is a question as to clean vs. unclean food, or acceptable vs. unacceptable food, the answer can only be that which presents our bodies as a living, sanctified and acceptable sacrifice to God. And these posts are filled with scriptures that provide insights as to how to accomplish that. Romans 12 goes on to point out that we are each given our own measure of faith and we are each given our own kind of gifts and none of us are to think of ourselves too wisely because of any of it. There is no one way but we all have special lessons God has taught each of us concerning food that we can share with each other and we can personally accept or reject any teaching, based on how God is leading us to present our bodies as a living, sanctified and acceptable sacrifice to God and not based on the validity of a particular teaching. Remember: For those who are according to the flesh, the things of the flesh do mind; and those according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. Romans 8:5.

I am humbled by the privilege of being able to share this with all of you.

In His Service,

Cathy
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: DuluthGA on September 11, 2007, 03:07:08 AM: And I am very personally GLAD and heartened to read it! HA! :) :)

Here you are, so new yet so insightful Cathy, ho ho!! [Just new to us, not that you are new to His indwelling spirit. :D] What a great post! YA NAILED IT! ;) To me anyway, I agree, and good also for all the accumulation of posts and other insights as well. My two favorite lines from you:

It is true that we are to care for our bodies and responsibly manage them, but the goal is not so that the flesh will profit.... It is for His sake that we consider these issues, not for the sake of our or others’ flesh.

HIGH FIVE, I love simplicity! :D
I praise Him for there are NO LIMITS TO HIS GRACE!
Janice
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: YellowRose on September 12, 2007, 02:39:43 AM: Thank you, Janice. You are very precious to me! :D

In His Service,

Cathy
Title: Re: Clean and Unclean Meat !!
Post by: ez2u on September 13, 2007, 12:26:48 AM: Cathy very well said ;D moderation in all things. We might have different roads to travel down as I had in dissolving the lump with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but we will all come to know and be known in Christ Jesus. thank you for sharing with us. peggy