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=> Testimonies / Prayer Requests / Fellowship => Topic started by: 24 Grams on May 27, 2009, 11:23:03 PM
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I know this thread will probably get removed...but I'm tired of this. I've read most of the information on this site. And I must admit I understand everything written hear, but I can't help but still question what's the point? I know God's plan and I've been posting on different forums teaching people of the truth (of course no one wanted to hear). I marvelled when I first came to realizing the truth (even though I've never really trusted the church or most people for that matter any way) but now this has all worn off and I'm back to normal again...very angry with life...not confused though, but STILL angry. I mean, what am I supposed to do? Wait around for God to "change" me? How long will this take? I mean, if God has shown me the truth surely I'm one of those called now? Trust me...I've been suffering all my life, from times when I was ignorant and didn't understand. And now that I know that it was God that was responsible for this, it makes me even more angry. So ok I've suffered but what have I actually learned from this? Not much...In fact it has made me worse of person...Seeing that I was kind previous to this. I've got nothing to live for...I don't need words of encouragement...really. I'm just bored of this and to be honest right now, I'd like to pretend I'd never read any of this and continue with my old thoughts. I know Chritsians are idiots, but I know plenty of people who believe in God but do not follow the stupid teachings of Christianity.... There is no Hell....men are evil and stupid....God wants children......and? So? In fact I think this is an American thing. No offence but you folks are a little crazy....People in England actually do think a bit more about this lunacy. I think this world is just a big game that God uses to torture people...Of course he doesn't do this physically but spiritually...Mentally....Is this any really different to the Chritian teaching? If God really is burning away the ungoldlyness in me why has He so far failed? Can He really change someone (namely Saul) in thirty seconds, why can't He change me? Every time I read this- be humble, overcome, take up your cross, God is working in you b***s**t it makes me very angry!! I don't want to be part of God's family...I don't want to be here, but God is forcing me!!! Who am I to answer to God? Some might say...But He did make me...So I might as well ask....After all this is my life He's playing with, right?
Ok, ramblings aside...Basically what I'm saying is that I have read and understand EVERYTHING written on this site...But it is void....I haven't changed....I don't feel special or anything actually....Christ hasn't given me "rest"....In fact I've been wasting my time learning all this stuff...Because I have other things to do.
Apparently evil is only "temporary" (and it will end? When exactly? When we get bored of it?). God "wills" for us even though we can't feel it (seems strange no? So all my failings...I'm a lousy cook, a bit stupid, are actually God's faults), we'll all be "resurrected" from the dead (but we must die first? Why? Because when we're dead we can't ask for compensation for this b***s**t?), we're only suffering because God is supposedly "chastising" us (but apparently some lucky folks get to live the good life now and get the SAME chastening later)....Why should I believe any of this nonsense....Because its written in Greek? Because it has a long tradition? Because someone says so? Showing kindness to people means you'll get walked all over...I don't hate anyone but do I really have to love them? Jesus only had male Disciples and constantly referred to men all the time "God wills all MEN to be saved" "we will become SONS of God" "you will be fisher of MEN" All the prophets were men ( I'm not one of those feminist types...after all I am a man)" Jesus the Son of MAN" ..........And finally I'm not sure which Gospel it is but when Jesus is being led away by the roman soldiers it mentions a man, who is not mentioned previously ANYWHERE in the other verses who is half naked apart from a thin peice of clothing. This person is identified in one of the apocrytal books and suggests...and ultimately leads to my final question. Doesn't Jesus appear a bit gay to some of you?
I mean I DO believe in a higher force, but I believe that either God doesn't notice our existence or God just doesn't care and is concerned with something else........Because I just don't buy this concept....
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Well the term used to refer to "MAN" as in the "son of MAN" is actualy the same word used for Humanity. If i'm not mistaken.
I'm also sure, from what i remember, that their is a verse that mentions "DAUGHTERS" of God. So it's not only just SONS of God.
Also their was a female character of great importance in the bible, Perhaps even greater than the prophets, her name is Ester i believe. I could be mistaken though.
Can you link the verse also that refers to this "half naked man" that apparently appears in the text for no purpose or reason while Jesus being lead away.
I'd greatly appreciate that.
Theirs alot in your post to go through.. and im a bit lazy atm... oh who am i kiding, im always lazy but um.. ill try and see what i can dig up to respond to some of your posts.
I too hope this isn't removed because its a good time to search ourselves and to help others who have similar feelings.
God bless,
Alex
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Alex, he's talking about this passage in Mark, describing the taking of Jesus in the garden on the night of his passion...
Mar 14:46 And they laid their hands on him, and took him.
Mar 14:47 And one of them that stood by drew a sword, and smote a servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.
Mar 14:48 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Are ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and [with] staves to take me?
Mar 14:49 I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled. Mar 14:50 And they all forsook him, and fled.
Mar 14:51 And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about [his] naked [body]; and the young men laid hold on him:
Mar 14:52 And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.
I guess I can understand the poster's frustration, but his notion of Jesus' 'gayness' is just a childish tantrum on his part. Anyway, I'm sure that's the passage to which he refers...obviously he's been misled to its implications.
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Alex, he's talking about this passage in Mark, describing the taking of Jesus in the garden on the night of his passion...
Mar 14:46 And they laid their hands on him, and took him.
Mar 14:47 And one of them that stood by drew a sword, and smote a servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.
Mar 14:48 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Are ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and [with] staves to take me?
Mar 14:49 I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled. Mar 14:50 And they all forsook him, and fled.
Mar 14:51 And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about [his] naked [body]; and the young men laid hold on him:
Mar 14:52 And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.
I guess I can understand the poster's frustration, but his notion of Jesus' 'gayness' is just a childish tantrum on his part. Anyway, I'm sure that's the passage to which he refers...obviously he's been misled to its implications.
Yea, when looking at this from a spiritual perspective. I can definatly see it has nothing to do with being gay.
For example, i can see it refering to;
This naked man, being the gentiles for example, actualy it could be anyone! Like you and me. Remember in revelations we are told we are naked and wretched? JUST LIKE THIS MAN! Jesus said that we would ALL forsake him. This just shows that even US, the GENTILES, or ANYONE this NAKED MAN [US] forsook Jesus.
Perhapst his leaving of the linen cloth symbolizes or represents our forsaking God. As ray said, we all have to leave our first love. Maybe it represents that in us?
The other young men laying hold on Him could represent the WORLD laying hold on us, because we are not of the world, everything that is carnal, aka the world, will try and grab us and pull us away from Christ!
I don't know.. im just brain storming :P
From a physical perspective though... this guy might have just been wondering in the garden eating some fruit, having a midnight stroll, maybe he was poor and couldn't afford good clothing and so was practicly naked. I Mean.. i know i like taking midnight strolls, not naked though :P But yea.. who knows.
I highly doubt this somehow reflects Jesus being gay... I for one don't see it being that at all!
God bless,
Alex
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These are verses that God used to rebuke me when I was grumbling in the desert and when every thought in my mind was screaming out in accusations against God. I learned that I was listening to the wrong voices and learned that any voice that accuses God is not of God. I also learned that all evil thoughts come from an evil heart.
Matthew 15:18-20
18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
God taught me not to listen the accusations against him through an experience I had. I was the problem and I needed to repent. I wrestled in front of God with the sin that was within me and did not wrestle with God with accusations against his character. This was evil within me that I gave to God to deal with. I learned through suffering and hardship to submit to God's will in my life. I am still learning to submit. I am stubborn and willful.
Exodus 16
1 The whole Israelite community set out from Elim and came to the Desert of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day of the second month after they had come out of Egypt. 2 In the desert the whole community grumbled against Moses and Aaron. 3 The Israelites said to them, "If only we had died by the LORD's hand in Egypt! There we sat around pots of meat and ate all the food we wanted, but you have brought us out into this desert to starve this entire assembly to death."
Numbers 14
1 That night all the people of the community raised their voices and wept aloud. 2 All the Israelites grumbled against Moses and Aaron, and the whole assembly said to them, "If only we had died in Egypt! Or in this desert! 3 Why is the LORD bringing us to this land only to let us fall by the sword? Our wives and children will be taken as plunder. Wouldn't it be better for us to go back to Egypt?" 4 And they said to each other, "We should choose a leader and go back to Egypt."
Hebrews 3
Jesus Greater Than Moses
1Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess. 2He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God's house. 3Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. 4For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. 5Moses was faithful as a servant in all God's house, testifying to what would be said in the future. 6But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast.
Warning Against Unbelief
7So, as the Holy Spirit says:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
8do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the desert,
9where your fathers tested and tried me
and for forty years saw what I did.
10That is why I was angry with that generation,
and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.'
11So I declared on oath in my anger,
'They shall never enter my rest.' "
12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15As has just been said:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion."
16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.
Luke 9:61-62
61 Still another said, "I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say good-by to my family."
62Jesus replied, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God."
Luke 9
23Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. 24For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. 25What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self?
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Whose timetable is GOD supposed to work on, ours o' man?. If you think you know then you are fully in the control of your carnal nature.
Rom 8: 6-8 (KJV)
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Act 17: 30-31 (KJV)
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
1Ti 4: 1-11 (GNB)
1 The Spirit says clearly that some people will abandon the faith in later times; they will obey lying spirits and follow the teachings of demons.
2 Such teachings are spread by deceitful liars, whose consciences are dead, as if burnt with a hot iron.
3 Such people teach that it is wrong to marry and to eat certain foods. But God created those foods to be eaten, after a prayer of thanks, by those who are believers and have come to know the truth.
4 Everything that God has created is good; nothing is to be rejected, but everything is to be received with a prayer of thanks,
5 because the word of God and the prayer make it acceptable to God.
6 If you give these instructions to the believers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, as you feed yourself spiritually on the words of faith and of the true teaching which you have followed.
7 But keep away from those godless legends, which are not worth telling. Keep yourself in training for a godly life.
8 Physical exercise has some value, but spiritual exercise is valuable in every way, because it promises life both for the present and for the future.
9 This is a true saying, to be completely accepted and believed.
10 We struggle and work hard, because we have placed our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all and especially of those who believe.
11 Give them these instructions and these teachings.
george. :)
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<<Whose timetable is GOD supposed to work on, ours o' man?. If you think you know then you are fully in the control of your carnal nature.>>
I know that we can not make God change His timetable for our lives. However, I think that we can hinder Father, Daddy God by our choices in giving into the carnal nature instead of being led by the spirit of God. We can't make it go any faster but it can make it slower (in our perspective not God's). God knows of our all decisions not that He makes us choose the carnal nature. It is not pointless. God is truly Love. You say you know the Truth but have you applied the Truth to your life?
Of course, people are not going to listen.. they are blind.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 "and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved, 11and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie, 12that they may be judged -- all who did not believe the truth, but were well pleased in the unrighteousness".
However, perchance there is one that is called to be the elect then your postings are not in vain. You are not there to win or debate (what is your motivation? Love?) the Truth on forums. Christ Jesus told us we would be persecuted for His name. (Mat 5:11-12)"Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you".
God will direct your steps.. they are ordered by God. Psalm 37:23 and 24, "The steps of a good person are ordered by the Lord, And He delights in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; For the Lord upholds him with His hand."
You do have a part to play, it is not just only up to God to zap you.. you are not a robot or puppet.. you are a child of the Most High God being made into His image. You do have choices.. follow carnal nature or be led by the spirit of God.
Romans 8:14-15
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption,(sons of God) whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
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Hi 24 Grams (interesting name) and Everyone,
A few thoughts came to mind as I read through this topic and I thought I would respond to a couple points (maybe more later).
In regard to Paul being "converted" in a few seconds after being struck blind, I guess this has something to do with how you define or perceive the word converted, or actually what really transpired. Saul was convicted of his beast nature, his carnal self righteous self and was newly conceived as Paul.
No one in this body of flesh is truly 100% converted, we are a new creature yes, but incomplete until "the change" when we receive our full inheritence.
Does Paul sound as if he believes he is a pure, holy and a completely "converted" spiritual creature?
Romans 7
14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
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And I must admit I understand everything written hear, but I can't help but still question what's the point?
This isn't what you want to hear right now but if you did understand everything Ray has written you wouldn't be asking the question. I don't understand everything written on this site....as a matter of fact I feel that I'm still in Kindergarten and just barely scratching the surface. Until you quit trying to force God's hand in things you'll probably never grow, at least thats been my experience. Let God be God. In time if it's his will for you he will open your spirit into deeper truths but it comes about on his time table and not ours. There is so much I don't understand yet but I just have to be content to wait until he does, if he does. We are the clay and he is the potter remember?
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From;
WHO AND WHAT IS JESUS? & WHO IS HIS FATHER? . . . Nashville Conference 2007
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html
Phi 2:12 “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”
Doesn’t that contradict this whole thing... we’re saved by grace and not of works? Now we’re to work out our own salvation? What is that? How do you explain that “Of Myself I can do nothing” (John 5:30)? And He said YOU can do nothing (John 15:5), to the apostles. Then Paul says “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” Well it does sound like a contradiction. But read the next verse and He tells us why. "For" now that word always means ‘because' or it’s another word for because.
Phi 2:13 “For (because) it is God who works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.”
Some of you probably still don’t get the answer, but it is there. "Work out your own salvation," is not the gist of that saying. He is not saying, work out your own salvation(.) No, He’s saying “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, that’s where the emphases is, on fear and trembling, not on work out your own salvation.
You work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, why? Because it all depends on God! If God doesn’t do it, it won’t happen, IT WON’T HAPPEN! So we live in fear and trepidation.
I cannot drive down the street, being the safest driver that I can be and know that I will avoid an accident, if God has already determined I’m going to have one. What it doesn’t mean is you can drive down the road foolishly... or you don’t need to wear a seat belt... or close your eyes for a while... or something like that. But you do have to act it out. Why? You have to, He makes you.
He made you come out of your mother’s womb and He made you cry. Not that He forced you, but circumstances, He brought about all the circumstances. He made you cry, makes you grow and makes you fight with your kid brother.
You do all these things and people reach a place where they get tired of it. So we have plays like ‘Stop the world I want to get off.’ It's like I’ve had enough, I’m at the end of my rope and it’s the end of the line. Well it’s only the end of the line IF God has determined it’s the end of the line.
If say you came to that conclusion at 8:30, and He knows you won’t die until your 77 1/2, then you're not going to end it.
That’s where the fear and trepidation come in. It ALL depends on God, there’s nothing you can do. But YOU have to work it out. YOU have to get up and go to work. YOU have to do all this stuff.
Then you say I don’t want to anymore, well circumstances make you.
So you think, I’ll just end it all... then your child comes up and says ‘Mommie.’ Now you say, oh my gosh I have a child, I can’t kill myself I’ve got to live for my child. You see?
So God makes you live this life. He makes you do all this, HE MAKES YOU DO IT. But not against your will. He puts you in circumstances and that’s the only way you can go. The ONLY way!
You think, 'I shouldn’t have done this or that.' That’s right you should think that way. You should think that... 'I shouldn’t have done that,' because then you're learning.
When you learn, you will then put that into practice. Because God doesn’t have you learn things so you can’t put them into practice. He has you learn things so you CAN put them into practice. But the only way you will learn them, is if you see how stupid it was, and you say if I had it to do over, I wouldn’t have done that. So YOU HAD TO DO THEM! Because that lead to a lot of trouble and pain and sorrow. But did you learn your lesson? 'Well yea.' Then don’t do it again okay, now their back on track.
But the whole human race does not comprehend that they do not have free-will. They have a will based on everything that everything makes them do. That’s their 'free' will.
When you think about this you can go crazy, because the whole thing is bizarre.
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Hello 24 Grams. :)
Take a deep breath,Take a break from your studies of the Word,Go out and about to the business that needs attention,Refresh your mind and heart,Be aware of who and what you are, and then, believe what your heart really knows,God is working in you and here's the proof. ;)
God is operating all...Because of this there is nothing to worry about...
Peace...Mark
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Hello 24 Grams. :)
Take a deep breath,Take a break from your studies of the Word,Go out and about to the business that needs attention,Refresh your mind and heart,Be aware of who and what you are, and then, believe what your heart really knows,God is working in you and here's the proof. ;)
God is operating all...Because of this there is nothing to worry about...
Peace...Mark
Gah.. what a beauitul post! I actualy felt joy, a deep sence of joy when i read this post.
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Hi folks,
Ah the desert! Such a barren, dry, inhospitable place. What does the desert teach us? Well, 3 things for sure,
1) "...Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" (Mt 4:4)
2) "...You shall not tempt the LORD your God" (Mt 4:7)
3) "...You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Mt 4:10)
How much we want out of the desert and yet it is in the desert that the Lord intends to bless us,
- "Do not remember the former things, nor consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing, now it shall spring forth; Shall you not know it? I will even make a road in the wilderness and rivers in the desert. The beast of the field will honor Me, the jackals and the ostriches, because I give waters in the wilderness and rivers in the desert, to give drink to My people, My chosen." (Isa 43:18-20)
- The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He makes me to lie down in green pastures;
He leads me beside the still waters.
He restores my soul;
He leads me in the paths of righteousness for His name's sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil;
For You are with me;
Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.
You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies;
You anoint my head with oil;
My cup runs over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life;
And I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever.
(Psalm 23)
- "Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, "Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." (Jo 4:10)
- "For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope. Now may the God of patience and comfort grant you to be like-minded toward one another, according to Christ Jesus" (Ro 15:4,5)
Do not trust your feelings, they will deceive and betray you. God is working in your spirit, not your flesh and it is through your weakness that He'll give you strength, in the darkness He will give light that you may see. It is not for us to decide how God should mold us,
- "But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"" (Ro 9:20)
- "But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence" (1 Cor 1:27-29)
The ways of the Lord are so far above our ways that mostly we do not comprehend His working in us. He knows who we ARE and it takes faith and maturity to see oneself as God sees us, both who we are in the flesh and, more to the point, who we are IN CHRIST JESUS. Who we are in Christ is already a reality, but CHRIST IN YOU is a work in progress and shall be so for the rest of our lives.
Just rest in Him for now, speak openly and honestly with the Lord and wait on Him, and if it be His will He will reveal Himself to you according to His good pleasure. Stand still and see the salvation of the Lord.
Grace and peace to you
Nelson
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I know this thread will probably get removed...but I'm tired of this. I've read most of the information on this site. And I must admit I understand everything written hear, but I can't help but still question what's the point? I know God's plan and I've been posting on different forums teaching people of the truth (of course no one wanted to hear). I marvelled when I first came to realizing the truth (even though I've never really trusted the church or most people for that matter any way) but now this has all worn off and I'm back to normal again...very angry with life...not confused though, but STILL angry. I mean, what am I supposed to do? Wait around for God to "change" me? How long will this take? I mean, if God has shown me the truth surely I'm one of those called now? Trust me...I've been suffering all my life, from times when I was ignorant and didn't understand. And now that I know that it was God that was responsible for this, it makes me even more angry. So ok I've suffered but what have I actually learned from this? Not much...In fact it has made me worse of person...Seeing that I was kind previous to this. I've got nothing to live for...I don't need words of encouragement...really. I'm just bored of this and to be honest right now, I'd like to pretend I'd never read any of this and continue with my old thoughts. I know Chritsians are idiots, but I know plenty of people who believe in God but do not follow the stupid teachings of Christianity.... There is no Hell....men are evil and stupid....God wants children......and? So? In fact I think this is an American thing. No offence but you folks are a little crazy....People in England actually do think a bit more about this lunacy. I think this world is just a big game that God uses to torture people...Of course he doesn't do this physically but spiritually...Mentally....Is this any really different to the Chritian teaching? If God really is burning away the ungoldlyness in me why has He so far failed? Can He really change someone (namely Saul) in thirty seconds, why can't He change me? Every time I read this- be humble, overcome, take up your cross, God is working in you b***s**t it makes me very angry!! I don't want to be part of God's family...I don't want to be here, but God is forcing me!!! Who am I to answer to God? Some might say...But He did make me...So I might as well ask....After all this is my life He's playing with, right?
Ok, ramblings aside...Basically what I'm saying is that I have read and understand EVERYTHING written on this site...But it is void....I haven't changed....I don't feel special or anything actually....Christ hasn't given me "rest"....In fact I've been wasting my time learning all this stuff...Because I have other things to do.
Apparently evil is only "temporary" (and it will end? When exactly? When we get bored of it?). God "wills" for us even though we can't feel it (seems strange no? So all my failings...I'm a lousy cook, a bit stupid, are actually God's faults), we'll all be "resurrected" from the dead (but we must die first? Why? Because when we're dead we can't ask for compensation for this b***s**t?), we're only suffering because God is supposedly "chastising" us (but apparently some lucky folks get to live the good life now and get the SAME chastening later)....Why should I believe any of this nonsense....Because its written in Greek? Because it has a long tradition? Because someone says so? Showing kindness to people means you'll get walked all over...I don't hate anyone but do I really have to love them? Jesus only had male Disciples and constantly referred to men all the time "God wills all MEN to be saved" "we will become SONS of God" "you will be fisher of MEN" All the prophets were men ( I'm not one of those feminist types...after all I am a man)" Jesus the Son of MAN" ..........And finally I'm not sure which Gospel it is but when Jesus is being led away by the roman soldiers it mentions a man, who is not mentioned previously ANYWHERE in the other verses who is half naked apart from a thin peice of clothing. This person is identified in one of the apocrytal books and suggests...and ultimately leads to my final question. Doesn't Jesus appear a bit gay to some of you?
I mean I DO believe in a higher force, but I believe that either God doesn't notice our existence or God just doesn't care and is concerned with something else........Because I just don't buy this concept....
Hi 24 Grams,
I hope this thread doesn't get removed, because you are sharing your inner thoughts and being
downright honest. Is it possible you suffer from depression, I don't mean this in a offensive or disrespectfull way.
The reason I mention this is because, to some degree, you sound like me, I've suffered from Depression most of
my life, not the major kind, otherwise I wouldn't be able to work and function.
I can understand and sympathize with the feeling of " Whats the point," sometimes life seems hopeless. Just a
suggestion and that's all it is, Try to find something Spiritual about what you've learned and experienced, then
focus on that, it might help you to feel better, even if momentarily. As an example: I experience great joy when
the opportunity arises for sharing things I've learned, initially, keep it short and simple. Just the other day I met
someone I vaguely knew and was able to tell him about the eventual Salvation of All. He gave me his Email address
and said I can send some of Ray's material and the Website. Nothing may come of this, but I think there's a good
possibility, because in the past he's been fed alot of JW Watchtower information and probably realized he would
never measure up to their expectations in " gaining Salvation", so at the very least, I planted a seed, only God will
make it grow, when he's ready. However, it gave me great joy, the odds of bumping into this guy at a Jiffy Lube
and remembering him were not very good. I'm convinced it was part of God's plan.
Kind Regards, Samson.
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Alright, 24 Grams, it's obvious you're 'asking for it', so I'm gonna tell it to ya like it is, no 'sugar-coating':
You say: "I've read most of the information on this site. And I must admit I understand everything written hear,..."
and also: "Basically what I'm saying is that I have read and understand EVERYTHING written on this site"
Judging by your post, one thing is for sure, Grams, YOU DON'T 'UNDERSTAND'! NO, YOU DON'T! Sure, you may get the 'logical' part of concepts like: There's no Hell. Humans don't have Free Will. God is Sovereign over all. BUT YOU DON'T 'GET IT' SPIRITUALLY!
What? You think you're the only one that's had a rough life, Grams? You think no one else suffers as you do? YOU THINK NONE OF US HERE HAVE SINS AND CARNAL ISSUES THAT FRUSTRATE AND CONFUSE US? YOU THINK YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE?
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind [ that's the 'soulish--natural' mind of all humanity] is enmity [deep-seeded hatred] against God [Sound a bit familiar?]: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Paul asked the Galatians an EXCELLENT QUESTION. Now, I ask you:
Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect [mature] by the flesh?
Do you really understand these verses, Grams? Do they make you ANGRY? Well, they should, because they WAR AGAINST YOUR CARNAL MIND. Your SOUL is AT WAR with God's SPIRIT. That's WHY you get ANGRY! And YOU ain't the first one nor will you be the last!
Now, I usually share God's Truths in a nicer more respectful way, but it's obvious 'being nice' won't due for you! You think you can leave comments here like "No offence but you folks are a little crazy..." and EXPECT NO ONE TO BARK BACK?
Nonsense! My same Teacher, who was very humble and meek, was also very BOLD when it came to dealing with people who DESPISE THE WORD OF GOD! AND YOU, GRAMS, DESPISE THE WORD OF GOD!!!
Among the many commandments we have like "love your enemies", we also have this one:
Luke 10:19 Lo! I have given you authority to be treading upon serpents and scorpions and over the entire power of the enemy, and nothing shall be injuring you under any circumstances."
Of course, I direct this commandment of "treading upon serpents and scorpions" not toward you, directly, but the EVIL SPIRIT that deceives you...
Mat 12:34 Progeny of vipers! How can you be speaking what is good, being wicked? For out of the superabundance of the heart the mouth is speaking.
Christ spoke well of you when He stated:
Mat 15:8 This people with their lips is honoring Me, Yet their heart is away at a distance from Me.
You claim to have been spreading the Truth in other forums. The Fact is that YOU WERE "HOLDING THE TRUTH IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS"! You have NO LOVE FOR THE TRUTH! YOU SHARE THE TRUTH THAT YOU "LEARNED" WITH OTHERS, NOT TO HELP THEM, BUT TO FEED YOUR CARNAL SELF-RIGHTEOUS HEART!
You say: what am I supposed to do? Wait around for God to "change" me?
What? You think all it takes is a simple "flip of a switch"? You think you can just wake up one morning and WHAM-BAM-BANG, YOU ARE NOW PERFECT? One thing is for SURE, with that kind of attitude YOU'LL BE WAITING FOR A LONG TIME!
You say: I know God's plan and I've been posting on different forums teaching people of the truth (of course no one wanted to hear). I marvelled when I first came to realizing the truth (even though I've never really trusted the church or most people for that matter any way) but now this has all worn off and I'm back to normal again...
Hmm... Where have I heard this before? ...
Mat 13:3 And He speaks many things to them in parables, saying, "Lo! out came the sower to be sowing.
Mat 13:4 And, in his sowing, some, indeed, falls beside the road, and the flying creatures came and devoured it.
Mat 13:5 Yet other falls on rocky places, where it had not much earth, and immediately it shoots up, because it has no depth of earth.
Mat 13:6 Yet at the rising of the sun, it is scorched, and, because it has no root, it is withered.
Mat 13:7 Yet other falls on thorns, and the thorns come up and smother it.
Mat 13:8 Yet other falls on ideal earth and gave fruit, some, indeed, a hundred, yet some sixty, yet some thirtyfold.
Mat 13:19 At everyone hearing the word of the kingdom and not understanding, coming is the wicked one and snatching what has been sown in his heart. This is he who is being sown beside the road.
Mat 13:20 Yet he who is being sown on the rocky places, this is he who is hearing the word and straightway with joy is getting it,
Mat 13:21 yet has no root in himself, but is temporary. Now at the coming of affliction or persecution because of the word, straightway he is snared.
Mat 13:22 Now he who is being sown in the thorns, this is he who is hearing the word, and the worry of this eon and the seduction of riches are stifling the word, and it is becoming unfruitful.
You say: In fact I've been wasting my time learning all this stuff...Because I have other things to do.
Well, then, LEAVE! It's obvious YOU HAVE LEARNED NOTHING!
You say: I know this thread will probably get removed...but I'm tired of this.
I SINCERELY HOPE IT DOESN'T! THIS CAN BE A GREAT LESSON AND BENEFIT FOR ALL OF US!
Romans 9:18 Consequently, then, to whom He will, He is merciful, yet whom He will, He is hardening."
WHICH SIDE DO YOU THINK YOU'RE ON, GRAMS?
OH, YOU DIDN'T ACTUALLY THINK THAT YOU WERE 'HARDENING' YOUR OWN HEART, BY YOUR OWN 'FREE WILL' DID YOU? Silly Goose! :o
II Corinthians 11:12 And what I do I WILL CONTINUE to do, in order TO UNDERMINE THE CLAIM OF THOSE who would like to claim that in their BOASTED mission they work on the same terms AS WE DO. [ESV]
May God show you the errs of your ways, IN HIS TIME, NOT YOURS,
Daywalker. 8)
I know this thread will probably get removed...but I'm tired of this. I've read most of the information on this site. And I must admit I understand everything written hear, but I can't help but still question what's the point? I know God's plan and I've been posting on different forums teaching people of the truth (of course no one wanted to hear). I marvelled when I first came to realizing the truth (even though I've never really trusted the church or most people for that matter any way) but now this has all worn off and I'm back to normal again...very angry with life...not confused though, but STILL angry. I mean, what am I supposed to do? Wait around for God to "change" me? How long will this take? I mean, if God has shown me the truth surely I'm one of those called now? Trust me...I've been suffering all my life, from times when I was ignorant and didn't understand. And now that I know that it was God that was responsible for this, it makes me even more angry. So ok I've suffered but what have I actually learned from this? Not much...In fact it has made me worse of person...Seeing that I was kind previous to this. I've got nothing to live for...I don't need words of encouragement...really. I'm just bored of this and to be honest right now, I'd like to pretend I'd never read any of this and continue with my old thoughts. I know Chritsians are idiots, but I know plenty of people who believe in God but do not follow the stupid teachings of Christianity.... There is no Hell....men are evil and stupid....God wants children......and? So? In fact I think this is an American thing. No offence but you folks are a little crazy....People in England actually do think a bit more about this lunacy. I think this world is just a big game that God uses to torture people...Of course he doesn't do this physically but spiritually...Mentally....Is this any really different to the Chritian teaching? If God really is burning away the ungoldlyness in me why has He so far failed? Can He really change someone (namely Saul) in thirty seconds, why can't He change me? Every time I read this- be humble, overcome, take up your cross, God is working in you b***s**t it makes me very angry!! I don't want to be part of God's family...I don't want to be here, but God is forcing me!!! Who am I to answer to God? Some might say...But He did make me...So I might as well ask....After all this is my life He's playing with, right?
Ok, ramblings aside...Basically what I'm saying is that I have read and understand EVERYTHING written on this site...But it is void....I haven't changed....I don't feel special or anything actually....Christ hasn't given me "rest"....In fact I've been wasting my time learning all this stuff...Because I have other things to do.
Apparently evil is only "temporary" (and it will end? When exactly? When we get bored of it?). God "wills" for us even though we can't feel it (seems strange no? So all my failings...I'm a lousy cook, a bit stupid, are actually God's faults), we'll all be "resurrected" from the dead (but we must die first? Why? Because when we're dead we can't ask for compensation for this b***s**t?), we're only suffering because God is supposedly "chastising" us (but apparently some lucky folks get to live the good life now and get the SAME chastening later)....Why should I believe any of this nonsense....Because its written in Greek? Because it has a long tradition? Because someone says so? Showing kindness to people means you'll get walked all over...I don't hate anyone but do I really have to love them? Jesus only had male Disciples and constantly referred to men all the time "God wills all MEN to be saved" "we will become SONS of God" "you will be fisher of MEN" All the prophets were men ( I'm not one of those feminist types...after all I am a man)" Jesus the Son of MAN" ..........And finally I'm not sure which Gospel it is but when Jesus is being led away by the roman soldiers it mentions a man, who is not mentioned previously ANYWHERE in the other verses who is half naked apart from a thin peice of clothing. This person is identified in one of the apocrytal books and suggests...and ultimately leads to my final question. Doesn't Jesus appear a bit gay to some of you?
I mean I DO believe in a higher force, but I believe that either God doesn't notice our existence or God just doesn't care and is concerned with something else........Because I just don't buy this concept....
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Daywalker...very well said!
24 Grams...back up! You are contradicting yourself at every turn! You understand, NO you don't! God is dragging you around by the hair of your head and He will continue to drag you until you are where He wants you! None of us can clarify it, or soften it, or explain it to you! That is God's job! He will drag you back time and time again and then you will get it! Don't worry about God! You are not frustrating Him or annoying Him, you are not baffling Him, or shocking Him! You are like a little child who wants his own way! Well around here it's GOD'S way! We are all here because one way or another God dragged us here! So consider yourself loved by God...favored by God...If He loves you enough to go to so much trouble for such a befuddled worm as yourself you can bet your sweet bippy he has a reason for it! Don't go around acting like the Lone Ranger, like you have some heretofore unknown secret about God which the rest of us have no clue of! Please, get a grip...a TIGHT grip because if God brought you here you could be in for a bumpy ride, dude!
We are all in this lifeboat together and that's just the way it is! Settle back and read and listen and if you're quiet you may hear God speaking to you!
Not trying to mean or hateful, but if you're sick of it, you're sick of it but put your complaints before God and get on with it! I do appreciate your honesty, because you know that's what God requires of us honesty! He hates lying because lying and deceit are totally against His character!
I am not trying to talk down to you or be disrespectful of your feelings. God gave you all those feelings you have, He intends for you to be thoroughly in line with His will at the end of all of this! You will find that here at BT we will love you unconditionally because that's how God loves all of us!
Kathy :)
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Well daywalker said it best and is completley right;
Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Words of wisdom!
God bless,
Alex
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thanx Ninny [& Alex.. saw your post afterwards...]...
Oh, and a few more passages for Grams:
II Peter 2:20 For if, while fleeing from the defilements of the world by the recognition of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet, being again involved in these, they are being discomfited, their last state has become worse than the first."
21 For it were better for them not to have recognized the way of righteousness, than, recognizing it, to go back to what was behind, from the holy precept given over to them."
Mat 13:17 For verily I am saying to you that many prophets and just men YEARN to perceive what you are observing, and perceive not, and to HEAR what you are hearing, and hear not.
What God has shown you is an AMAZING GIFT... yet YOU TURN IT INTO A CURSE! Have you ANY IDEA what you're doing? May God be merciful when judging you,
Daywalker
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Wow, just wrote up a big reply and the damn thing was posted to another entry. So I deleated it. Talk about being p'd.
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I doubt if Grams is around to read any of this, but it is a wonderful thread, full of love, inspired teaching, and rebuke...I needed all of it. Arion, I have been here for 3 years but I am still w/ you in Kindergarten! Daywalker, that was a God driven post if I ever saw one, Jacobs Ladder, thank you for bearing your soul to us, Nelson, so good to hear from you, your scripture was a balm for my soul, Alex, Ninny- I just love reading your posts, I usually identify w/ them, Marky Mark that was right on, Aqr and Joe and Bunnylife thank you for your in put. Hope I didn't miss any one.(well, Musicman)
Even tho meant for Grams, I really needed this discussion. My last day of school was today, and I am so tired-exhausted body, mush brain tired. and I was just thinking I am so "tired" of it all...our country, my life, anything, everything...yes, sick of it all. I read this thread and some others and ....ta da......JESUS IS LORD....He makes all things new every morning...He refreshes my soul....He owns me!!!
Then.....I go and see that Ray is answering his e mails in his own sassy style and my heart just overflowed. All's right w/ the world again.
thanks and blessings to you all.
If Grams is reading (or leaves) this thread should cure you of what ails you...if not, you really don't wanna be cured!!
Love, your sister in Christ,
gena
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I'm so thankful God is causing Gram to have issues. Otherwise, he wouldn't have posted and Daywalker wouldn't have had an opportunity to respond. I don't know if Gram is going to get it, but it came thru loud and clear to me. Awesome!
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John 6
60On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"
61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."
66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
67"You do not want to leave too, do you?" Jesus asked the Twelve.
68Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God."
Thank you all for this thread. It gave me a lot of encouragement to press on. (http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5545/grouphug5vj5.gif)
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Hello, I was reading in Psalm's tonight. There are many scriptures that tells us to wait. Well, waiting can be hard. But, waiting teaches patience. Every generations has had to learn to wait. Patience is a part of enduring, and being long suffering. We are all going to face trials. We all want to be changed quickly. But, God is teaching us. There is something marvelous waiting for us if we wait. Wait patiently. We will produce the fruit of endurance if we wait patiently.
God has been patient with the whole earth. Our Trials are to grow us Gram. He is not doing this to hurt us. I look at it as if I learn it now, and endure I will not have to go through his wrath. You act as if there is nothing to gain by waiting. Well, others from generations have had to wait. You have to decide do I go back to living as I please or do I trust God and wait on him to do his work in me.
Here are some verses to think about.
Psalms (KJV) Chapter 27 verse 14 Wait on the Lord: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the Lord.
Psalms (KJV) Chapter 33 verse 20 Our soul waiteth for the Lord: he is our help and our shield.
Psalms (KJV) Chapter 37 verse 34 Wait on the Lord, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land; when the wicked are cut off, thou shall see it.
Psalm (KJV) Chapter 37 verse 7 Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prosperth in his way, because of the man
who bringeth wicked devices to pass
Micah Chapter 7 verse 7 Therefore I will look unto the Lord; I will wait for the God of my Salvation: my God will hear me.
Galatians Chapter 5 verse 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Romans Chapter 8 verse 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
verse 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within waiting for
the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body
verse 24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
verse 25 But, if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
There are so many othr verses I could give you about waiting. Waiting brings patience and patience causes us to endure.
I don't know about you Gram, but I am so happy our God waits patiently with us. If, we are to be chosen we need to know how to love, and be patient and endure to the end. We, will be helping judge the majority of humanity. They will have to go through everything we do. But, its with Gods wrath and more severe.
You have been shown truths in your life time now. What, a gift from God.
This vese might help you Psalms 34 verse 19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous; but the Lord delivereth him out of them all.
If, you believe these truths you have found here of God, why would you want to take the cares of life back on you and also be worse off then before.
I was wondering, if you have read How Hard is Getting Saved by Ray. If, not I advice you to start reading all his things. Only, God can helps us over come the beast in us. It is a process and hard work, but God is able.
Well, I agree with all the others. I believe, they all Love and care about you and your walk with Christ. Did you really think it is easy? Was it easy for Jesus.
I know, there are people who have been through way more then me. But, I have faith that God is able to take me through any storm, I have been through quite a few. Take your eyes off of self and put them on Christ. Wait on him.
In His Love,
Marlene
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24 grams will be back after he has had some time to chew on everything posted here.
Grams are you surprised that your post didn't get removed? I look forward to hearing from you again.
Peace
Roy
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I wish I could boast that I have read all Rays teachings and understanding everything ;).
I can't concentrate for more than 5 minutes to put posts up here, but what I have read of Ray's teachings I understand and believe in.
There are alot nice people on here Grams that have lots of knowledge about Rays teachings.
Matt
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This really has been a wonderfull thread. and needed, methinks by many. Was going to post last night but decided against it. Glad I did not, what has been said here by all of you is what needed to be said.
I have also been very tired of everything going on lately, country wise, economy wise, everything wise, and though I have matured enough not to blame God I have been rather partial to the idea of going home to Him. Not suicide, please dont misunderstand but just going home.
Last night I cried, have not done that in a long time, but it came to a head in a way.
this bible verse was given to me today and I would like to share it with my brothers and sisters.
Habbakuk 3 verse 17 to 19
Though the fig tree may not blossom,
nor fruit be on the vines,
though the labour of the olive may fail,
and the fields yield no food,
though the flock may be cut off from the fold,
And there be no herd in the stalls,
Yet I will rejoice in the Lord,
I will joy in the God of my salvation.
The Lord God is my strength,
He will make my feet like deers feet
And He will make me walk on my high hills.
Thats enough for me, I am still here because God wants me here, and I am gratefull that I am.
God bless you all
j
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Hi jassy & Jacobs Ladder,
It is good that you and i have learned this Truth. Your feelings of wanting out are not unique, I am many times at that same crossroad, as we all are at times, when we see our predicament and do not perceive the end goal.
The yearning and groaning for the consummation of this suffering, learning and growing age is ever present in every believer.
Ecc 1:13 (CLV)
I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.
Ecc 4:8 (CLV)
There was one person, but there was no second; There even was no son or brother for him; Also there was no end to all his toil, Yet his eyes were not satisfied with his riches. Then he said, For whom am I toiling And making my soul lack good? This too is vanity, and it is an experience of evil."
Look at Paul, as he is ministering in later his years:
Php 1: 9-27 (GNB)
9 I pray that your love will keep on growing more and more, together with true knowledge and perfect judgment,
10 so that you will be able to choose what is best. Then you will be free from all impurity and blame on the Day of Christ.
11 Your lives will be filled with the truly good qualities which only Jesus Christ can produce, for the glory and praise of God.
12 I want you to know, my friends, that the things that have happened to me have really helped the progress of the gospel.
13 As a result, the whole palace guard and all the others here know that I am in prison because I am a servant of Christ.
14 And my being in prison has given most of the believers more confidence in the Lord, so that they grow bolder all the time to preach the message fearlessly.
15 Of course some of them preach Christ because they are jealous and quarrelsome, but others from genuine good will.
16 These do so from love, because they know that God has given me the work of defending the gospel.
17 The others do not proclaim Christ sincerely, but from a spirit of selfish ambition; they think that they will make more trouble for me while I am in prison.
18 It does not matter! I am happy about it---just so Christ is preached in every way possible, whether from wrong or right motives. And I will continue to be happy,
19 because I know that by means of your prayers and the help which comes from the Spirit of Jesus Christ I shall be set free.
20 My deep desire and hope is that I shall never fail in my duty, but that at all times, and especially right now, I shall be full of courage, so that with my whole being I shall bring honor to Christ, whether I live or die.
21 For what is life? To me, it is Christ. Death, then, will bring more.
22 But if by continuing to live I can do more worthwhile work, then I am not sure which I should choose.
23 I am pulled in two directions. I want very much to leave this life and be with Christ, which is a far better thing;
24 but for your sake it is much more important that I remain alive.
25 I am sure of this, and so I know that I will stay. I will stay on with you all, to add to your progress and joy in the faith,
26 so that when I am with you again, you will have even more reason to be proud of me in your life in union with Christ Jesus.
27 Now, the important thing is that your way of life should be as the gospel of Christ requires, so that, whether or not I am able to go and see you, I will hear that you are standing firm with one common purpose and that with only one desire you are fighting together for the faith of the gospel.
george :).
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Hello, And this is why I come here. I come to be with my Brothers and Sisters in Christ who think like me. Last, night my Mom was watching Billie Grahams Son on TV . He said," People have asked him since 9/11 and the hurricane Katrina , if this is Gods judgement on America. He said, he did not know, but that we defintely have problems in our country. At least, it was not like his Father who said, He did not think so.
But, it is really hard for me to listen to any of them. They sound ok at first and then they go on and boom. This is hard for me to listen too.
I am glad we have each other. We have more in our life then when we were in Babylon. I don't know about all of you guys, but most in churches don't care if they spend much time with you. They go and leave and never seem to want to spend time too much with someone going through trials.
I think, we all long to be out of this world from time to time, but God will decide that.
I am blessed that my Husband never took on much of Babylon's believe. I pray for all of you that long for your spouse to believe like you.
One last thing, since being in here, I have witnessed how God is growing you all. So, never be afraid to tell us how you feel or struggles you are having.
I cannot think of a better place to be or a better teacher then Ray is. We are blessed indeed!
In His Love ,
Marlene
But, I have family who are upset with me.
Well, I just love you all and keep you in my prayers. Each and everyone of you on here have something that helps me and others on here.
We are all in this together. When, one has problems we pray. When, others are ill we pray. It is a everyday battle.
I thank God everyday, that he led me in here and I have a church family like you all.
In His Love,
Marlene
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I marvelled when I first came to realizing the truth (even though I've never really trusted the church or most people for that matter any way) but now this has all worn off and I'm back to normal again...very angry with life...not confused though, but STILL angry.
Rev 10:8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
Rev 10:9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
Rev 10:10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
Think about it....
Peace,
Joe
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That is so true Joe,
The Words are sweet, very great promises to come in the future. Now as we have to live (Eat the book) it is a bitter and painstaking life we live with the daily food (book).
george.
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Hello everyone,
Just wanted to express my appreciation to all who have contributed to this thread. It was very timely for me and a relieve to know I am not alone feeling discouraged or wishing the ongoing struggles would end and God would see it fit to just let me get off this circus wheel. I am so glad He knows what He's doing and ignoring my carnal desires.
As to patience and long-suffering, this world system teaches us to have everything now... today! However, we don't develop patience this way. Quite the contrary is true, it feeds our carnal nature, and we become little spoiled brats very fast.
I have been sitting at my computer for several days in a row to read much more than I usually do of all the material that is available on this site.
Going to college full-time is one of the reasons I have not contributed to this forum lately. School and learning occupied most of my days. I just finished another 6 months of study and was at the end of my rope... physically, emotionally, spiritually worn out... I became irritable, angry, moody and felt like I was not safe for human consumption anymore.
The college wanted me to jump right into another semester but I refused. I was "dead" in more than one way.
Just reading all your posts, "hanging out" with all of you and being fed by the Word has brought back some of my much needed sanity.
24 Grams, you are not alone. Consider yourself blessed that God brought you here and is showing you the Truth.
Angie
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That is so true Joe,
The Words are sweet, very great promises to come in the future. Now as we have to live (Eat the book) it is a bitter and painstaking life we live with the daily food (book).
george.
I second that! Thanx Joe.
The Truth is so amazing.. yet living it is so hard, rather impossible for us to do alone.. hence we need God's Spirit to overcome.
Isaiah 33:14 Sinners in Zion are terrified; trembling has seized the godless. Who among us can live with the consuming fire? Who among us can live with continual burning?
Daywalker. 8)
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Good post everyone , we all have our moments like 24 grams but like Job we have to remember who is the Creator and who is the creature
We all need to mediate on the word murmuring in the scriptures
The wilderness expererience was certaining easy example to see the futility of such behavior.
In the new testament ...it was still going on, the pharisees were the most vocal but those listening were doing it and so too today.
For those who Rest in the Total Sovergnity of the Father
Php 2:13 for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
Php 2:14 [size=140pt]All things do without murmurings and reasonings[/size],
Php 2:15 that ye may become blameless and harmless, children of God, unblemished in the midst of a generation crooked and perverse, among whom ye do appear as luminaries in the world,
The faithful are to become salt and luminarie....that means that in themselves theys do nothing .....but let the power of the Father work through them.
beloved
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This thread and those who have posted has been such an encouragement of love and reprove. It lets me know now what a PRECIOUS GIFT knowing the TRUTH and to handle with care and love. What an HONOR by Father God, not of myself but all glory to Him that chooses to show the TRUTH. It is truly the pearl of great price. Matt 13:45,46 "Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who is a merchant seeking fine pearls, who having found one pearl of great price, he went and sold all that he had, and bought it."
The field of the hidden treasure. Matt 13:44 "Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found, and hid. In his joy, he goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field."
I thank God each for my brothers and sisters than bring forth pearls of wisdom that God Himself birth in each of you. We all do hurt but we know that we have boldness to come before the throne of grace
Hebrews 4:16 "Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need". to the Father and as a child to my Daddy God to sit upon His lap and tell Him I hurt. And He wraps His arms around me as I lay my head to hear His heartbeat. I feel the warmth of His Love in His presence... I also feel the coolness of the refreshing like the spring rain. And He whispers so soft and lovingly.. everything will be OK. You have my Word. I am once again strengthen and renewed with Hope.
Isaiah 40:31 "They that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint"
In His Joy,
Bunni
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24 grams, is this right? I totally understand how you feel. I am a bit late here and everything seems to be cleared up. We are only human, remember that. We are not perfected yet and in my case I wonder sometimes, if ever, but that's quite the norm. That wondering, I mean. And I do know what you mean when you say"what good is all this chastening when you are worse than before". Someone said here, "take a break, get away from it all for awhile" That's the only thing that really helped me and maybe a good night's sleep. I understand God's word both spiritually and intellectually but as of now I just want to back off for awhile. It has been a day I would rather forget. I did learn something though from this day and that is I am not tough enough but rather too easy on people who never say they are sorry and consequently I get "the works" over and over. I will not argue but act the next time. judy.
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Just wanted to pop in and say that this thread is amazing.
I was on the verge of falling into the same state as you, 24 Grams. But I had to humble myself and keep reminding myself that I'm not the one who will tell God how to do His job. I'm only the clay. And what Daywalker said on the 2nd page really pressed many positive buttons.
I'm hoping to see you again Grams.
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24 Grams,
I thank you for starting this thread and feel most of us at times begin to doubt. However, I think daywalker really hit the nail on the head. It is GOD, all is GOD, and all is in HIS time frame. Look around you and you will be able to find many in much worse condition than yourself. Be thankful because GOD can change all any time HE wants for either better or worse.
We can't tell GOD how to run HIS creation. We can only marvel at HIS greatness and await HIS perfect promises. Day to day living can be hard with a few pleasures and lots of pain and suffering. However, GOD tells us that those who love HIM will receive suffering but the good things that are waiting for us makes this suffering well worthwhile.
Phil. 2:13 says it best, "For it is GOD which works in you both to will and to do HIS good pleasure." I trust GOD alone to accomplish for me what I can't do for myself and am assured that HE is able. If we all could totally surrender everything to GOD our life would be so much better. Our real life will be attained at the resurrection of the dead.
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Good response Brad,
Well thought out, simple and I think helpful.
Bob
I know this thread will probably get removed...but I'm tired of this. I've read most of the information on this site. . . .
Hi 24 Grams,
I hope this thread doesn't get removed, because you are sharing your inner thoughts and being
downright honest. Is it possible you suffer from depression, I don't mean this in a offensive or disrespectfull way.
The reason I mention this is because, to some degree, you sound like me, I've suffered from Depression most of
my life, not the major kind, otherwise I wouldn't be able to work and function.
I can understand and sympathize with the feeling of " Whats the point," sometimes life seems hopeless. Just a
suggestion and that's all it is, Try to find something Spiritual about what you've learned and experienced, then
focus on that, it might help you to feel better, even if momentarily. As an example: I experience great joy when
the opportunity arises for sharing things I've learned, initially, keep it short and simple. Just the other day I met
someone I vaguely knew and was able to tell him about the eventual Salvation of All. He gave me his Email address
and said I can send some of Ray's material and the Website. Nothing may come of this, but I think there's a good
possibility, because in the past he's been fed alot of JW Watchtower information and probably realized he would
never measure up to their expectations in " gaining Salvation", so at the very least, I planted a seed, only God will
make it grow, when he's ready. However, it gave me great joy, the odds of bumping into this guy at a Jiffy Lube
and remembering him were not very good. I'm convinced it was part of God's plan.
Kind Regards, Samson.
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Just have to comment on this thread again.
24 Grams,
Just want to thank you and encourage you, for your post that started this thread. I am amazed at what the difference of a couple weeks make in discerning, from all the contributions by my sisters and brothers here.
Rom 8:28 (GNB)
28 We know that in all things God works for good with those who love him, those whom he has called according to his purpose.
29 Those whom God had already chosen he also set apart to become like his Son, so that the Son would be the first among many believers.
30 And so those whom God set apart, he called; and those he called, he put right with himself, and he shared his glory with them.
31 In view of all this, what can we say? If God is for us, who can be against us?
32 Certainly not God, who did not even keep back his own Son, but offered him for us all! He gave us his Son---will he not also freely give us all things?
33 Who will accuse God's chosen people? God himself declares them not guilty!
34 Who, then, will condemn them? Not Christ Jesus, who died, or rather, who was raised to life and is at the right side of God, pleading with him for us!
35 Who, then, can separate us from the love of Christ? Can trouble do it, or hardship or persecution or hunger or poverty or danger or death?
36 As the scripture says, "For your sake we are in danger of death at all times; we are treated like sheep that are going to be slaughtered."
37 No, in all these things we have complete victory through him who loved (Loves) us!
38 For I am certain that nothing can separate us from his love: neither death nor life, neither angels nor other heavenly rulers or powers, neither the present nor the future,
39 neither the world above nor the world below---there is nothing in all creation that will ever be able to separate us from the love of God which is ours through Christ Jesus our Lord.
george. ;D
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WOW! thanks to all who posted on this thread....i know i am REAL late to comment, but i just wanted to say how great ALL the posts were and so honest.....gooooood stuff!
lauriellen
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What's really interesting about this post and the subject matter and consequently the comments that kept it alive and going strong... the original poster thought this post would be deleted but God used that poster to strengthen so many forum members who might have felt frustrated at times. God used the foolishness of preaching to remind us of so many scriptures that explain everything that was expressed in the original post. God took what appeared to be a lemon and made it lemonade for all of us in the form of knowledge and spiritual strengthening.
Bingo Jacobs Ladder,
Never knew you were a carpenter, but you hit the nail right square on the head.
george. ;D
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Hey 24 grams, how are you doing today? Jacobs Ladder made a great observation. Praise the Lord
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Thank you 24 grams, you have no idea how much this has helped me today. I was truly on the verge of giving up, so I thought maybe just one more look in the forums, and maybe there is something there to keep me going. Sure enough after re reading this thread there is no doubt, God inspired you to start this so that it would help me and many others.
Been very frustrated lately because I have not changed as much as I wished, because of the realization that I'm still yet carnal, evil, and sinful. So now all I can do is surrender and accept and deal with what ever happens next, because ALL is of God. There is much less anxiety and fear within me because of this thread, and a little more faith and hope.
Once again, thank you 24 grams, and everyone else for the input and Scriptures, most importantly thank God. Im not alone, and neither are any of you, it's good to fellowship with like minds, with like problems, and like hopes. Like Brother Joe said in another thread, ".....we should be comforted in the fact that being a member here is not a prerequisite for salvation!", so true, and I'm sure Brother Joe knows better than most of us, how it really helps to be a member here and to participate, and help each other when it gets rough, just as God planned.
Ecc 4:10 For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up.
Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Thank you my Brothers and Sisters for everything, all the glory is His for bringing us together in this forum.
Peace & Love
G.Driggs
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Thank you 24 grams, you have no idea how much this has helped me today. I was truly on the verge of giving up, so I thought maybe just one more look in the forums, and maybe there is something there to keep me going. Sure enough after re reading this thread there is no doubt, God inspired you to start this so that it would help me and many others.
Been very frustrated lately because I have not changed as much as I wished, because of the realization that I'm still yet carnal, evil, and sinful. So now all I can do is surrender and accept and deal with what ever happens next, because ALL is of God. There is much less anxiety and fear within me because of this thread, and a little more faith and hope.
Once again, thank you 24 grams, and everyone else for the input and Scriptures, most importantly thank God. Im not alone, and neither are any of you, it's good to fellowship with like minds, with like problems, and like hopes. Like Brother Joe said in another thread, ".....we should be comforted in the fact that being a member here is not a prerequisite for salvation!", so true, and I'm sure Brother Joe knows better than most of us, how it really helps to be a member here and to participate, and help each other when it gets rough, just as God planned.
Ecc 4:10 For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up.
Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Thank you my Brothers and Sisters for everything, all the glory is His for bringing us together in this forum.
Peace & Love
G.Driggs
I 2nd the "thank you 24 Grams", and I completely understand your condition G. Driggs, as well as 24 Grams [at the time he started this post]. I have been feeling this way, lately, myself. I feel like I've learned so much, and my knowledge and understanding of God and His Word has exploded! Yet, when I look at my life, my actions, my sins, I feel as though I should be much further than I am. Sometimes, I feel as though God is holding me back [yes, I know that sounds absurd...]
But I know that He is using my weakness to continue to humble me, and it does have an impact on how I look at other people and interact with them. I have always been a very forgiving person, but that ability has become far greater than before, and I can see how I am able to easily get along with people, at work and outside.
I can also see, and even feel, the pride and arrogance of others around me when they say judgmental and hurtful things about others, and 'puff' themselves up. It bothers me when they do so, and I believe a lot of that has to do with my own personal weaknesses and tribulations.
Indeed, it's very frustrating at times, humbling ourselves to an All-Wise, Sovereign Being. It is not easy for us, self-righteous humans...
May God Stay Close To All Of Us,
Christopher. 8)
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I can also see, and even feel, the pride and arrogance of others around me when they say judgmental and hurtful things about others, and 'puff' themselves up. It bothers me when they do so, and I believe a lot of that has to do with my own personal weaknesses and tribulations.
Indeed, it's very frustrating at times, humbling ourselves to an All-Wise, Sovereign Being. It is not easy for us, self-righteous humans...
May God Stay Close To All Of Us,
Christopher. 8)
Wow, I've been dealing with the same exact thing lately. Not here, but in other forums.
I guess I have been put down, looked down on so much in my life that maybe I take it
too personal when I see it happening to someone else, especially from someone who
claims to be a Christian. This has always been one of my weaknesses. At the same time,
I have been very unfair, cruel and evil to a lot of people through out my life, so I
don't have much room to talk. It is good you said that, opened my eyes a little more,
humbled me a little more, it is a shameful thing to be such a hypocrite. Will pray to
have a little more compassion, and to remember where I came from, next time I see what
I perceive to be injustice from a Babylonian. I'm no better.
Thank you Christopher
Peace, Love
G.Driggs
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and to remember where I came from, next time I see what
I perceive to be injustice from a Babylonian. I'm no better.
Thank you Christopher
Peace, Love
G.Driggs
Hello again Driggs,
That highlighted part of your statement really stood out to me...
Rev 2:5 Remember, then, whence you have fallen, and repent...
I think I sometimes forget that I was once in a very bad way, and that it was JESUS CHRIST, and NOT myself, that delivered me out of Babylon and all its devices and philosophies.
Thanks for the great "reminder". :)
Daywalker. 8)