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=> Testimonies / Prayer Requests / Fellowship => Topic started by: TheRysta on July 24, 2009, 06:06:09 PM
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Hey guys.
First off I have some really good news. There was one woman called Mary Baxter who claimed she had seen hell and all this stuff, and because I am so naturally timid to this I took it all in last Winter. After about six months of worrying I have finally read some of her material and it is LAUGHABLE. It's absolutely CHILDISH. It has actually made me MORE confident that there is no eternal hell. It also raises the question, "Is there a devil?" because if this woman is out to decieve the masses it certainly wasn't our crafty Satan because he wouldn't have been STUPID enough to convince someone to write this ridiculous stuff. I can't BELIEVE people swallow it. Decievers...
Anyway, although that worry has more or less died down I still feel like I'm being decieved. It's like I'm trying to construct my whole belief system all at once and around every corner I wonder if I'm being decieved. I'm suffering from this religious psychosis, that the devil might be around every corner. It's NOWHERE NEAR as bad as it was, don't get me wrong, but the thing is I can never be sure that the conclusions I come up with are true. I have only just started praying and I'm still learning to recognise signs.
This said, I was wondering if anyone on this site feels as if they have had it confirmed to them by the Holy Spirit that certain things are true. We can conspire as much as we want but our wisdom to God is foolishness. Does anyone feel truly that they have been enlightened by any of Ray's teachings?
Thanks. Dunno if this is supposed to be a private thing or not, I'm just curious.
- Ryan
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Does anyone feel truly that they have been enlightened by any of Ray's teachings?
:o :o :o
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Does anyone feel truly that they have been enlightened by any of Ray's teachings?
- Ryan
Hi Ryan,
Is this a serious question? :o
I will assume it is. ;)
Perhaps you have not read much of the personal testimonies or introductions, but more importantly have you been enlightened with any spiritual truths Ray has written of in his articles?
Anyway, most of us here do not put much credence in personal revelations, visions, etc. unless of course scriptural references are abundant, lacking that these revelations are only a potpourri of deceptions, delusions, fantasies, lies or any combination thereof, or maybe just too much anchovy pizza directly before going to bed. ;D
Peace,
Joe
P.S. The devil will use any ruse to deceive, there is nothing beneath him, intelligence or lack of intelligence or sophistication is not a problem, in fact he and his minions will custom tailor a deception or two that will fit us like an Armani suit if we stray from His Word.
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Does anyone feel truly that they have been enlightened by any of Ray's teachings?
- Ryan
Yes, truly.
Gary
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I second that ;D !!!
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I didn't expect so many people to pick up on that last thing I said.
Yes I have been enlightened by Ray's teachings, but only insomuch as a scientist would be enlightened by a new discovery. I have had nothing confirmed by the Spirit.
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Hey guys.
First off I have some really good news. There was one woman called Mary Baxter who claimed she had seen hell and all this stuff, and because I am so naturally timid to this I took it all in last Winter. After about six months of worrying I have finally read some of her material and it is LAUGHABLE. It's absolutely CHILDISH. It has actually made me MORE confident that there is no eternal hell. It also raises the question, "Is there a devil?" because if this woman is out to decieve the masses it certainly wasn't our crafty Satan because he wouldn't have been STUPID enough to convince someone to write this ridiculous stuff. I can't BELIEVE people swallow it. Decievers...
Anyway, although that worry has more or less died down I still feel like I'm being decieved. It's like I'm trying to construct my whole belief system all at once and around every corner I wonder if I'm being decieved. I'm suffering from this religious psychosis, that the devil might be around every corner. It's NOWHERE NEAR as bad as it was, don't get me wrong, but the thing is I can never be sure that the conclusions I come up with are true. I have only just started praying and I'm still learning to recognise signs.
This said, I was wondering if anyone on this site feels as if they have had it confirmed to them by the Holy Spirit that certain things are true. We can conspire as much as we want but our wisdom to God is foolishness. Does anyone feel truly that they have been enlightened by any of Ray's teachings?
Thanks. Dunno if this is supposed to be a private thing or not, I'm just curious.
- Ryan
Of course, the Devil is around every corner... you're learning the TRUTHS of God.. and wherever the TRUTH is, there also is Satan, the Great Deceiver, to try and "snatch it away".
Mark 4:13 And He [Jesus] said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
14 The sower soweth the word.
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word [That's the Truth, the Word of God] is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
Of course, the Devil is responsible for the ludicrous teachings of eternal hell that is being sold--LITERALLY--around the world as if it were truth... but the "deceiving" part is the Good Works. These people who LIE and DECEIVE also, do many Good Deeds.
To answer your question... If Ray's teachings didn't 'enlighten' me, I probably wouldn't come here and read them. I used to read from several other Christian sites, but now I can see the stupidity in their writings so I don't go there anymore.
Peace, Out.
- Daywalker 8)
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I second that ;D !!!
I third that !!! ;D
And Ditto to Daywalker! ;D
An Amen to Joe!
"Confirmation of the Spirit" isn't seated in our feelings or IQ scores...(not that you implied that) ;) just my opinion.
Faith & Grace & Eyes that See....are all gifts from God, to those he is calling Now.
It may be more scriptural to "Test the Spirits"....
Fasten your seatbelt You will be Blessed & Shaken.....again & again. Especially here!
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Hi Ryan,
I think you are in a big hurry to find comformation that this is the truth and that's understandable that you want some kind of proof. But actually I think all of us here have searched for many years before being shown this truth. We have heard so much heresy and doctrines of man that now this truth shines light a beacon in the night to us. I don't know what God will use to confirm it with you or when, but be assured that when He determines for you to have that assurance, you will.
What I would suggest is that you seek Him in the Scriptures and prayer as much as you can. The more you study the Scriptures (and Ray's articles are a really big help) the more you draw near to God.
James 4:8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
And yes there really is a devil. Look at this Scripture is Job.
Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD.
How can Satan "present himself before the lord," if he is not real? But you need not be fearful that the devil is going to get you, God controls all things, even Satan.
James 4:7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Hi theRysta, I have heard Ray say something to the effect that we shouldnt be too worried about the devil, focus more on God, because we can always tell the devil to flee. We should be a bit more concerned about the beast within, because it is always there. I think sometimes we are our own worst enemy.
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Mat 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Peace, G.Driggs
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...I think sometimes we are our own worst enemy...
Absolutely. My 10mo old daughter (and my 18yr old, for that matter) is her own worst enemy. If that isn't a real parable, I don't know what is! Worry more about our own carnality and spiritual ignorance, not the devil. Beware of both, of course.
Steve
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the rysta,
I too have been truly enlightened by the work the Holy Spirit has done through Ray. Pray and study my friend. I too question everything, that is a good study habit in my opinion. Be faithful as He is faithful, ask God to revel Himself to you. Be still and listen then pray and study some more. Peace and grace to you my friend, in the name of Jesus.
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Ryan,
I am 47 years young. I came to the Lord when I was 28. I have hung out with Christians since then. Worked at a church, taught at a Christian School, done tons of group Bible studies, been heavily involved in a mega church and then left that to go into 2 different Word of Faith churches. I believed and taught and stood up for every church doctrine out there. I questioned a few things from the studies I'd done on my own with the Holy Spirit rather than man leading me, but for the most part was a good little sheep. BUT all the while, God was bringing us out of worldly systems like public education, blindly following some political party, the health care system (western medicine), etc. getting us prepared for our ultimate stepping out.
Then, one day a friend sends me this link to Ray's paper on tithing. Says she wants my opinion. I read it. BAM! EVERYTHING he says he backs up with God's Word. I am all about "building precept on precept" so I keep reading more and more. My husband and I were out of Babylon within a month I'd guess and our lives would never be the same.
To say that I have been "enlightened" by what Ray has spent so many hours studying and writing about would be a grand understatement.
To say that the Holy Spirit didn't send us here would be completely crazy on our parts. This wonderful place is the biggest stepping stone in our walk so far.
Read and study my friend. The Holy Spirit has sent you here too. ;)
Lin
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Hi Ryan,
Three Scriptures below that should answer your above questions about learning or confirming anything Spiritual. Study The Word if you want to learn and grow in Spiritual knowledge. Stop leaning to your own understanding, start searching The Scriptures to confirm The Scriptures.
None of the wisdom of this world, is going to do you one tiny bit of good, toward understanding any Scripture verse or passage.
Pro 25:2 (MKJV)
The glory of God is to hide a thing; but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.
Pro 15:33 (GNB)
Reverence for the LORD is an education in itself. You must be humble before you can ever receive honors.
Php 2:3 (GNB)
Don't do anything from selfish ambition or from a cheap desire to boast, but be humble toward one another, always considering others better than yourselves.
george. :)
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Hey Ryan, I have been at this all my life, been to most churches, meditated for months at a time with the Holy Spirit, baptized and raised 4 children in the Catholic church, was a communion minister, etc. etc. Come here and learned more in a few months than all my life and experienced grace while reading all of this. One cannot deny the scriptual truth as Ray presents it but most of all look at the people on this site(you will know them by their fruit) and tell me if these people aren't some of the most sincere and loving Christians you have ever come across. The narrow gate is here my friend. Judy
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Everything else aside...
I've never meditated with the Holy Spirit. I've no idea what to do or what to expect. I've felt a very slight calmness in one prayer but that's it.
I guess I just don't know what it means to pray to the Holy Spirit. I'm new to prayer as it is.
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Everything else aside...
I've never meditated with the Holy Spirit. I've no idea what to do or what to expect. I've felt a very slight calmness in one prayer but that's it.
I guess I just don't know what it means to pray to the Holy Spirit. I'm new to prayer as it is.
There's no such thing as "praying to the Holy Spirit". You pray to God. And there's no weird rituals or certain positions necessary to pray to God. And you don't have to go to a building or temple to pray to God...
You know how to talk right? And you know how to think right? Well than you have all the skills necessary to pray to God, anytime, anywhere...
Wherever you are.. So also is God.. so if you got something to say, just start talking. And don't feel embarrassed or ashamed, as He already knows what you're about to say anyway... ;) :D
Peace, Out
Daywalker 8)
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Ryan it sounds like you have a problem with boundaries and foundational truth I agree with Kat you are in a hurry. Time is a kind friend it makes us grow old. ( this is from a poem) I have been here two years and with in the last several months rays teaching are coming a live to me. I have been able to read them through and gleam from them. My experience and why i have stay with this forum is because i knew inside this was Truth. Very solid, resounding and deeply. My sheep shall know my voice. Home schooling a few children, we all learn at our own pace as the Holy Spirit teaches us and a lot of our lessons are lesson of life instead of books, sermons, papers. Slowing down will greatly benefit you. I have to look around and see what my life is and ask God what could i be doing this day for those you put into my life. How can i walk out what your Word says? It comes believe me and when it does then you will know the truth. I hope this helps you Peggy
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Ryan I remember the first time I cried out to God 10 years ago, and the many times after that. I wanted to hear from Him and see Him and feel Him, and I wanted it then and there, but it took years before God allowed me to feel Him in my heart and mind and soul, but still He took me one step at a time at His time and not mine. As I look back on that I realize that I was wanting something carnal more than a relationship with God.
Oh how sweet it is when You take each step that God guides you in.No one can even come close to the way God can be a match maker in a relationship with Him.
Nothing to be worried about in the least Ryan. You are doing nothing wrong. God is teaching you. Its really that simple.
Peace
Roy
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Ryan,
Roy and the others are right. You are on a journey. If all you are thinking about is what's at the end, you'll miss the fun of the ride.
Also, you are asking for people to explain the unexplainable. Kind of like a mom trying to explain what it feels like to be pregnant. You can only understand it when you feel it for yourself.
Blessings, Lin
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Ryan, for any of us to relate the way we 'feel' during prayer or whatever would be as impossible as describing a color. Take a few seconds and attempt to compose a paragraph that will accurately communicate blue. Can't be done. Too many shades. Too many variables. Too little skill with words. Too little imagination from the reader.
Add to that impossibility, the fact that our feelings can and do often mislead us. And sometimes they become like a drug...we'll do anything to get them. That's what a lot of religion is...feelings-junkies jumping through hoops to get that thing we thought we once might have had back.
They can be manipulated by others. That's what a lot of religion is. Preachers and prophets and ministers working hard to ramp us up, or bring us down, or make us 'feel' superior or inferior to them and others.
You're 17. Don't tie yourself in knots trying to do something that most of us are struggling to undo. He didn't create you and die for you so He could lose you.
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By the way Ryan, I consider you to be a blessing. I hope to get to see you grow in Christ as I suspect that you will and are. Its very refreshing to see new growth as God draws them to Him. Please continue to share with us.
Roy
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Ryan,
A message for you: Genesis 32:24-32.
God bless you,
Steve
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Hi Ryan,
This section from the article 'Praying by God's Rules' is so profound to understanding about praying, so I'm bringing it here, I think it will help your understanding.
http://bible-truths.com/praying.htm ---------------------------
AN AMAZING SCRIPTURE ON PRAYER HIDDEN IN THE KING JAMES
This Scripture will blow you away if you have never before seen it properly translated. Here it is first in the King James Version:
"For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man sees, why does he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not then do we with patience wait for it. Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities, for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered" (Rom. 8:24-26).
Paul makes a connection between "hope and prayer." Hope is something we expect, but do not as yet experience. All of Christendom has this subject wrong when they claim that they are already in this life "saved" in the past tense. Paul tells us that we are "saved by hope," but if it is already a reality, then there is no need to still be hoping for it. He then states that, "Likewise…" (in the same way and manner) when it comes to praying, "we know NOT what we should pray for." Just as we do not yet SEE what it is that we "hope for" (we do not yet possess it), likewise we do not see what we are to "pray for" based on another one of God’s rules, not based on our ignorance (or ‘as we ought’). This much we can learn from the King James.
But the real problem with the King James is the next phrase "as we ought". That unfortunately does not carry the impact of what this most profound verse is telling us. The Greek word translated we ought is defined by Dr. Strong as follows:
G1163
de??
dei
die, deh-on'
“Third person singular active present of G1210; also de?�? deon which is neuter active participle of the same; both used impersonally; it is (was, etc.) necessary (as binding): - beho- ved, be meet, must (needs), (be) need (-ful), ough[t]".
This is a dogmatic word—NECESSARY, BINDING, BEHOOVES, MUST BE, NEEDFUL.
Fifty-eight times this word die is translated "must;" and seven times "behooved;" and five times "must needs". When we read this verse in the King James and many versions that copy the King James, we get the feeling that Paul is stating that we just don’t know how to pray as well as we could or should pray. This is not the point of his declaration. Paul is stating that the knowledge necessary to pray according to what MUST BE (what God has already predestined and determined is and must be done in His plan and purpose), none of us are aware. None of us know for sure what MUST BE in God’s purpose, and so we cannot possibly always pray for what God desires for us to have. This being so then, God’s Spirit aids our infirmity in this area and helps us pray according to God’s will, which is just another way of saying according to what must be.
Notice how this word is emphatically used throughout the New Testament:
"And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not trouble: for all these things must [Gk; die] come to pass, but the end is not yet" (Matt. 24:6).
Jesus is not saying that these things "ought" come to pass, but rather they MUST come to pass.
Likewise: "…the Son of man must [Gk: die] suffer…" (Mark 8:31).
Not that He only "ought" to suffer. "…for such things must needs be…" (Mark 13:7).
"…the gospel must first be published…" (Mark 13:10).
"I must be about My Father’s business" (Luke 2:49).
"Ye must be born again" (John 3:7).
"…that He must rise again from the dead" (John 20:9).
"…we must through much tribulation…" (Acts 14:22), etc., etc., etc.
Prayer must be in accord with what "must be." Here are a couple of Versions that bring this out clearly:
"And, in like manner also, the Spirit doth help our weaknesses; for, what we may pray for, as it behoveth us , we have not known, but the Spirit himself doth make intercession for us with groanings unutterable" (Rom. 8:26, Young’s Literal Translation).
The word "behoove" means "necessary." Not what should or might be, but what is absolutely "necessary." And "necessary" is the first definition of this word in Strong’s Greek Dictionary.
"Now, similarly, the spirit also is aiding our infirmity, for what we should be praying for, to accord with what must be, we are not aware, but the spirit itself is pleading for us with inarticulate groanings" (Rom. 8:26, Concordant Literal New Testament).
This Version and along with Young get the word order correct according to the Greek manuscripts, and therefore also showing that it is not "as we ought" that is being discussed, but "what must be".
Notice the word order from a few Interlinears:
"In like manner and also the Spirit jointly helps our weaknesses; for that which we should pray for according as it beho(o)ves [is ‘necessary’], we know not, but itself the Spirit makes intercession for us with groanings inexpressible" (Rom. 8:26, Interlinear Greek-English New Testament by Berry, Zondervan).
"In like manner and also the spirit helps the weaknesses of us; the for what we should pray as it behoves, not we know, but itself the spirit intercedes on behalf of us with groans unspoken" (Emphatic Diaglott Interlinear).
"AS-SAMELY YET AND THE spirit is-TOGETHER-supporting to-THE UN-FIRMNESS OF-US THE for ANY WE-SHOULD-BE-PRAYING according-to-WHICH IS-BINDING NOT WE-HAVE-PERCEIVED but SAME THE spirit IS-OVER-pleadING to-groanings UN-TALKED" (Concordant Greek Text, an Ultraliteral English Translation in the Sublinear). (All underlines are mine).
The reason that translators and expositors do not teach the truth on this verse is because they don’t believe it is true as written in the manuscripts. It appears from most translations and virtually all teaching on the subject of prayer, that they cannot believe the truth of this verse because it substantiates the Sovereignty of God and contradicts man’s fabled free will. To better understand what is being taught here on prayer, I will now quote Rom. 8:26 and continue through verses 27 and 28 from the Concordant Literal New Testament:
Now similarly, the spirit also is aiding our infirmity, for what we should be praying for, to accord with what must be, we are not aware, but the spirit itself is pleading for us with inarticulate groanings. Now He Who is searching the hearts is aware what is the disposition of the spirit, for in accord with God [with God’s will] is it pleading for the saints. Now we are aware that God [KJV leaves out "God"] is working all together for the good [things don’t "work together for good" by themselves—ALL good comes from God—James 1:17] of those who are loving God…"
Let’s now understand this most profound truth. It isn’t just that, "…we know not what we should pray for as we ought…" No, it is much more profound then just that, it is that "….for we know not what we should pray for, to accord with what MUST BE, we are not aware…" Why does the spirit aid our infirmity? What is our infirmity? Our infirmity is that we don’t know what to pray for that will absolutely always be in accord with what must be God’s will, and God’s will is "what must be." And since none of us has perfect foreknowledge of what God’s will must be, God’s spirit aids those who are obedient to Him, in requesting and praying about, the right things, so our prayers aren’t in vain.
It is the will and plan and preordained purpose of God Almighty, that’s what "MUST BE." "THY WILL BE done" (Matt. 6:10). Yes, God’s will MUST be done—always! One day we will all come to believe and appreciate the fact that God is Sovereign. God is always right. God always does what is best and perfect. And so it is vain to pray for something that is NOT "in accord with what MUST BE".
And only then does verse 28 make sense. Things don’t "just happen" to people who love and obey God (as most translations suggest in this verse). No, we should now be willing to accept the truth, "…that GOD [The King James leaves out the ‘God’ in this verse as if things just work themselves out without God] is working all together for the good…" And how is it that God works?
"In Whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him Who works ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL" (Eph. 1:11).
And so, if we always pray according to God’s Will, with a clean conscience, obeying the commandments of God, and are aided by the Holy Spirit of God to pray only "in accord with what MUST BE," we will begin seeing answered prayer where we may have been frustrated in the past.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat